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Ask HN: Not smart enough to a programmer, where to take my life from here?

• canarypilot 6y ago
  You say you’re stubborn on what you take an interest in. Could you expand on that? The other prompt that felt interesting to me was that you feel an intellectual limitation in terms of what you retain, what does that look like in practice?
• dlandis 6y ago
  Do you feel passionate about any particular subject, trade, or issue at all, regardless of whether or not it's connected to tech? Reminds me of this famous scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu2HhlTEHMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu2HhlTEHMc
  • deleted 6y ago
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  • throwaway88p 6y ago
    Passionate? not really much anymore. There are a number of things I'll take fleeting interest in after reading / watching some stuff, ranging from different technical subjects, to scientific subject, etc. Nothing ever seems to stick, though.
• godelski 6y ago
  I may be off base here, but it sounds to me like you just aren't interested in the subjects. One of the biggest factors to learning is how much interest you have. There are tricks you can do to get yourself more interested, but it does take a fair amount of work and isn't always effective. But if you wonder why sometimes we can remember silly details or whole complicated plotlines from stories but can't remember a simple math formula, a lot of it is actually your interest levels. Your brain prioritizes the stories because it is interesting, you can relate, and thus form strong neural connections. It is much harder to do that with a math equation that is fairly abstract and not in constant use. So I would start at finding which thing interests you the most. What meets the job criteria that you are looking for BUT also excites you? Then focus on moving in that direction.
  • elijahparker 6y ago
    I would strongly agree with this — learning and retention for me come easily when I’m interested, but are near impossible when I feel it’s irrelevant or I’m just not interested. Whether or not I’m gifted in something I’m interested in doesn’t really matter (and my suggestion is to not worry about this) since my interest gives me the perseverance and patience to learn and do well regardless of innate skill.
  • farias0 6y ago
    Yeah, I guess the real question here is "do you love programming?" If you do you can make it work, it's a matter of not giving up and instead tweaking your learning system, practicing more and better, etc. If you don't you need to find another area. Programming is a very demanding trade, and I don't think you can do it just for the paycheck, you need to have some degree of passion for it. If someone disagrees with me about this I'd love to hear different takes.
    • emsy 6y ago
      I’ve seen enough colleagues who are just in it for the money and found a niche inside the company that avoids anything demanding. In that regard you can work in a mind numbing fashion that other, often lower paid, professions also have. I wouldn’t recommend it though because the trouble comes when switching jobs can’t be avoided.
• k__ 6y ago
  I would not consider myself very smart. Took me multiple years, probably a decade between my first hello world and my first job, to become a programmer. I just didn't give up
• fegu 6y ago
  Even CRUD apps can have fun stuff: APIs, live GUI updates for everyone else logged in when a user makes a change, security (both designing and pentesting), building your own toolbox for accelerating development of the next one, usage monitoring etc. Some of these will impress clients and make your superior recognize you as a talent. This will make it more fun and open up new possibilities all by itself.
• seneca 6y ago
  So, by your own admission, you aren't intelligent enough to excel in your current profession. You're not interested in pivoting to adjacent fields. Your constraints are basically that you're not capable of, or interested in, any technical, or tech adjacent, fields. HN might have a hard time helping you here, since the fields you're ruling out are exactly what the site focuses on. It sounds like you're basically at square one. Do you have another skill set? Are you particularly interested in some other field? It's difficult for a stranger to give you life advice when all we know is what you are not interested in or capable of. Tell us more about what does feel engaging for you, and we may be able to help more.
• jackyinger 6y ago
  This sounds kindof like a pathological mode of thinking I sometimes get into. So here’s what I do to escape that mode of thinking/feeling when I find myself in it. Hopefully it will help. If you find yourself having trouble figuring something out, do not beat yourself up over how much trouble you’re having. That type of thought takes you down a really rough negative spiral. Instead, focus on your desire and will to figure it out or get it done. Believe in your ability to figure it out and then go prove yourself right by using your will to do so to power the work that will get your where you want to go. You have the power to pull yourself out of the rut, and you can get help from folks like counselors and peers too. But fundamentally, I have found that it takes a strong internal will to get out of a rut. I think that you can find that will and act upon it.
• adverbly 6y ago
  When was the last time you were working on something and lost track of time? This an indicator that you were in a flow state. Dont go for something you love doing - not everyone has that. Find something you can focus on, and that you can zone out while doing. This is honestly all most people can hope for.
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• hopeithelps53 6y ago
  How long have you been programming professionally? Do you think you are giving yourself a fair assessment based on how long you have been working in the industry? I ask to rule out the possibility that you are being hard on yourself or maybe have imposter syndrom. you say you find crud app building easy, this is not a statement which the general non-it population could say. Did you attend courses before working (university, college etc.)? Do you have good on the job mentorship or are you trying to figure everything out yourself? Do you have a person who is more senior who can give you honest constructive feedback and guidance? If youve already made the decision you are leaving programming... Can you think of things you have enjoyed about your career to date (i.e. coding, testing, designing, meeting people etc)? and what was it that steered you towards the career in the first place?
• thomasmeeks 6y ago
  My intuition is that you’d get more out of therapy than a career change right now. This sounds more like burnout or a lack of interest to me. But framing it as a lack of intelligence says a lot about how you view yourself, which could make a career change much harder than it needs to be.
  • samatman 6y ago
    I'd like to elaborate on this, and strongly urge OP to see a psychiatrist. The answer to your dilemma might be a new career. It might be cognitive behavioral therapy. It also might be an SSRI or modafinil. I have my guesses but they aren't at all interesting, the point is to get in touch with a professional who can help you figure this out. What you're experiencing isn't normal, or inevitable, and it doesn't mean you're not intelligent. Although hey, you might not be, how would I know? I think that's the least likely explanation out of all of them.
    • vldx 6y ago
      How modafinil might help? As treatment of potential undiagnosed ADHD?
      • samatman 6y ago
        Yeah, distinct possibility IMHO.
• throw3848yui 6y ago
  I am something you could consider smart; wrote first program as 6 years old, gave talks at conferences, worked on crypto-concesus algos, now I do research oriented consulting. Some points: - pattern recognition is basic brain function and everyone has it - you need PERFECT health to be smart; check testosterone, sleep, weight, nofap, exercise etc.. 90% people have brain fog for some stupid fixable reason - there is nothing wrong with CRUD app maintenance if you make good money. Challenge is nice, but gets old very fast, unless it is a hobby. - avoid relationship until your life is in order. Huge time sink and ruins concentration. - stop reading crap (politics, twitter... )
  • xf1cf 6y ago
    There is nothing in this comment that strikes me as real. Not only was it completely unnecessarily to condescendingly talk about how allegedly smart you are, the points you gave sound like they came straight out of a wantrepreneur youtuber's vlog.
    • throw3848yui 6y ago
      I think OP struggles with concentration, this could fix that. Not sure what was condescending. And I am smart, my mother had me tested ;)
      • cambalache 6y ago
        As it was said elsewhere, you present yourself as the stupid person version of a smart person. Maybe it is true, maybe it is not.
  • fileeditview 6y ago
    Avoiding relationships is one of the dumbest ways to fight dissatisfaction.
  • b3kart 6y ago
    > I am something you could consider smart Oh boy. > 90% people have brain fog for some stupid fixable reason [citation needed] > avoid relationship until your life is in order. Huge time sink and ruins concentration. A healthy social/romantic life is never a time-sink, unless you're extremely short-sighted.
• dasil003 6y ago
  Hard to offer any kind of constructive advice without some indication of your personality or what you do enjoy. I'm skeptical of the idea that you're not smart enough. In my experience, becoming a good programmer requires some relatively low-threshold capacity for logical thinking combined with a tenacity for debugging and understanding how things work. Being a genius who picks up math and CS concepts quickly is far from required. If you struggle with patterns and applications but are bored by simple CRUD apps then it may be the case that you just don't like programming that much. That would certainly make it very difficult to learn and retain anything. Overall though, you sound more depressed than anything. If that is the case then it colors all perception of what you enjoy or don't enjoy, and probably should be addressed directly before making any major career decisions.
• blahbhthrow3748 6y ago
  This sounds like depression to me. You're having trouble finding activities that interest you and feeling pessimistic about the future. It's easy to get stuck thinking that everything is hopeless or you're going to feel like this forever. Try taking some time off to decompress and talking to a psychologist. It's a slow process and it can be very challenging but with time you can start getting excited about new challenges again.
  • bawana 6y ago
    +1. Depression affects 25% adults at some point. I am not talking about ‘sadness’ but a more profound condition whose symptoms are subtle at first, but pervasive and protean. And get a CT of your brain as well.
• oceanghost 6y ago
  HI, have you been screened for ADHD/ADD? A number of the things you've said sound familiar to me. ADHD (generally) gets worse as you get older.
• not_a_moth 6y ago
  You are smart enough to be a programmer, you just have misconceptions about what programmers are supposed to be. All that really matters is if you can build things that work. People who can do the above will get paid, can even be CTOs. So what if Google wouldn't want you as a programmer, that's for a particular type of person.
• codac_mac 6y ago
  I often worry about this myself, and I highly agree with what some others are saying: find a problem/task that interests you or is worth solving - and work on it until it's solved, regardless of how difficult it is or inadequate it may make you feel by not understanding it at first. If you can't find a challenge, then maybe try going out of your way to add new feature /functionality to your CRUD apps. The challenges are always there if you keep an eye out. Again,I really believe its more about preserveerance and interest, not inherent intelligence. If you can build and maintain CRUD apps without an issue, then with time and effort I am certain you could progress to other more interesting challenges given enough effort.
  • throwaway88p 6y ago
    > find a problem/task that interests you or is worth solving - and work on it until it's solved, regardless of how difficult I guess part of the problem is that those problems tend to be rare. The way I feel, is that if I have a problem, it's likely already been solved (in which case I'll just use that solution), or people much more intelligent than me are already working on it. Another issue seems be be is that as time goes on, the problems I take interest in seem to become much more difficult to solve. This may be because they are technically complex, but can be for other reasons too. Often I don't even know what I need to be learning / researching to solve a problem, and that basically halts me.
    • ximeng 6y ago
      You could consider talking more about what you are interested in, what makes you happy, and less about the problems with your current situation. If you have even a little bit of energy that you can put towards something which you care about more than what you're working on now, you can start to move your life in a new direction. Eventually you'll start to take some risks that you are not brave enough to take now, but you need to be positive. Don't worry about making drastic changes now, they can come when you're ready. Complex problems are good if you care about them. A smart person working on it is a good sign. You just need to find a small way to contribute or even just to learn, you don't need to take over the world. Just do one small thing towards finding what you care about. In short, don't worry about changing your current routine and job, try to find something you really care about and work more on that in your free time. Trust your gut.
• 21stio 6y ago
  What about quantum physics or something like that?
• loraa 6y ago
  Change your gender and give life another try.
• werber 6y ago
  Figure out what makes you happy while you do the bare minimum and use your nights and free time to make it happen, It's hard to sludge you anything you don't like, and it's hard to tell someone "I hate my well paying career", without sounding ungrateful. Don't let yourself believe this is an intellectual fault, not being a technical person doesn't mean you're dumb.
• deleted 6y ago
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• new_guy 6y ago
  Something no-one else has mentioned yet is learning methods. Stuff might not be sticking because you're using the wrong learning method for you. Instead of reading a book, maybe watch a video tutorial instead, learn by doing etc, get a mentor to pair program with? Also look up 'imposter syndrome', it does sound a lot like you're suffering from self-esteem issues too so maybe get someone to talk with?
  • throwaway88p 6y ago
    Interestingly, I've never been a fan of video tutorials in the past, but have tried using them in the past weeks. There are some aspects of it I like. It's easier to keep attention with a video than a large wall of text these days (though it used to be the opposite). Unfortunately, it's not so easy to skip around content in a video, for example to avoid useless filler content or to return to a small chunk of content to review.
• tekkk 6y ago
  If you like to work by your hands, there are vast amount of opportunities out there. And it's perfectly fine to pursue a career as an electrician or a cook et cetera. It may not be rocket science but with the satisfaction of getting things done and having satisfied customers and good co-workers, it can be fun. But if you really can't think of anything that suits you or motivates you, then I think the problem is your own behavior and thinking patterns, that you need to change. You seem to have gotten stuck in a rut, so a nice break from it in a form of say school doesn't seem like a bad idea. Don't however, let the fallacy of sunk cost misguide you. Just because you have been doing software development doesn't mean you can't switch to manual labour. Or that your next job has to be somehow related to your current. Listen to your own emotions and thoughts, don't let the past weight you down. For example, that one very good programmer and Youtuber, bisqwit, actually works as a bus driver. Which I think is really encouraging in showing that even if you are really good at something (or you like to do as your hobby), doesn't mean you have to pursue it as your career.
• keiferski 6y ago
  Have you looked into computer networking and other IT-type topics? I’ve often found that networking specifically uses different skills and is suited for different people than programming. It’s more about systems, rather than logic, which (personally) I find more in-tune with my mental makeup.
  • throwaway88p 6y ago
    I actually have thought about it, but I'm not sure if I could stand starting at the bottom of those fields, plus the salaries cap much lower.
• narak 6y ago
  "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." - Einstein, maybe
  • smnthermes 6y ago
    Not Einstein: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/06/fish-climb/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/06/fish-climb/
• Avshalom 6y ago
  Yeah the good news is that if you find CRUD apps mind numbing then you are definitely smart enough to be a programmer. Sooo... right now thanks to covid19 basically every class at your local community college is online try a GIS class, it's a little bit python, a little bit SQL, a little bit data science-y and sometimes you go fly a drone around. Or you know something else, the point is there's plenty of fields that aren't explicitly tech adjacent that the ability to program at all gives you a somewhere between a head start and superpowers. BUT also I'm with the other guys too, maybe talk to a therapist.
• fabatka 6y ago
  I don't think you are supposed to "find your dream job" or whatever. Work is just a slice of life, and I think you should try to find something outside work that makes you happy (art? forming a serious relationship and devoting yourself to it? anything, really). If you are so lucky that you work in IT, you don't have to do much more than the minimum to live a relatively comfortable life, and be able to concentrate on things outside of your work. That world is much bigger, and you surely can find something that makes you feel fulfilled.
• sbussard 6y ago
  It sounds like you're looking for growth and significance but need direction. Listen to the Ken Coleman podcast.
• cschep 6y ago
  It's possible, though I don't know you, that you're too smart to be a programmer. And maybe "programmer" is the problem. Be a _____ who can also code. Zed Shaw said it best in the final pages of learn python the hard way. Programming as a career is rarely fulfilling to anyone. But being a teacher/doctor/librarian/entrepreneur/warehouse worker/farmer/etc. that can code is a super power. I'm basically talking to myself with this pep talk so I appreciate you bringing it up but.. let's both go find the thing that we like and apply programming to that thing!
  • geocrasher 6y ago
    This. My own suspicion is that you the OP is highly intelligent and recognizes all of these weaknesses due to his own intelligence rather than a lack of it. I can relate to some of these things in a way. When I was 15 I tried to teach myself TC++. I got hung up on pointers and thought that I just wasn't smart enough to understand them. Many years later I had somebody who helped me understand pointers and I realized that I just wasn't interested in learning past that point. I had kicked myself many times for not following through on learning TC++. I thought that I was too dumb to be a programmer. Turns out I just don't want to be a programmer! Sure I can bash script pretty well and I can knock together some PHP to do something if I absolutely have to or even a little python, but I only get out those tools when I neede them to accomplish a primary goal. It turns out that I'm quite good at writing, teaching, and identifying areas where specific tools can help the people who I am teaching. So I write, teach, and build tools as needed. And just because I do them in bash or do them poorly in Python doesn't mean that I'm bad at programming. It just means it's not where my strengths are and that I focus on what I am good at and love doing. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that you aren't a bad programmer. You're just better and more interested in something else and you need to figure out what that thing is and pursue it and put programming on the back burner as a superpower as was mentioned in the previous comment above this one.
    • cschep 6y ago
      I appreciate this insight so much. I'm in the thick of working through the feelings of failure that are associated with an honest preference. There is a voice in my head that says "you're a failure" or "you just can't hack it" when I honestly just don't have the preference to keep learning in that direction. Someone else in this thread mentioned therapy and that has helped me immensely in this pursuit but.. It also helps to relate to other people in the same situation. May we all feel some peace!
• twomoretime 6y ago
  I'm going to buck the trend here and say that if intelligence is approximately normally distributed, there will always be some proportion of the population that doesn't meet the minimum in the necessary dimensions. The point is not to demoralize someone, but to prevent them from spending a lifetime of angst and anguish in a field that is not totally beyond their grasp but always just far enough above their head to keep them questioning themselves constantly. OP, it sounds like you've given this a shot and it didn't quite stick. Maybe it's time to try something else. For what it's worth, I felt the same for much of my education, studying physics and passing curved tests but never really feeling like I understood mathematics - and it's a terrible feeling to be somewhere where everyone presumes that anyone is capable of anything while you're here struggling. I did manage to complete my degree but I ended up specializing in something where I could leverage the mathematical intuition I developed without having to fake my way through actual math, and I'm fairly successful. Perhaps you can do something similar. The way the entire thread bends over backwards to find something "wrong" with OP, some external, fixable explanation, is counterproductive. These sorts of expectations are good to have but if they are not grounded in the reality of individual ability, they can lead to serious mental health problems.
  • deleted 6y ago
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• lonelappde 6y ago
  Welcome to adulthood. Work is often unpleasant. You don't need more school, you need to find a healthier attitude, and maybe coworkers you get along better with.
• nogabebop23 6y ago
  I think I see a lot of people in the potential career changes who have a similar attitude, which unfortunately continues the (probably not untrue) perception of BAs, sales and management who don't know shit. Please don't add to this by saying "I don't like development and don;t think I'm very good at it, so instead I'll become a manager of developers".
• bbrree66 6y ago
  Firm but necessary feedback: When I read this I see me me me me me me me me me. Think of things in terms of how you are helping others instead of so selfishly about yourself. The world doesn't exist to serve you. What are you expecting, some amazing job to fall down from the sky that is all about you and everything you want? Doesn't work that way! You need some career capital. What value can you provide in exchange for these things you are asking for? If you want an interesting and fun career you need to be skilled enough at something to counter balance the value you receive. More concretely: there is a fantastic book called "So Good They Can't Ignore You" by Cal Newport. Give that a read and it will provide guidance and a new framework with which to see the world.
• madhadron 6y ago
  My advice in this situation is: 1. Keep your job for now. This is a good time to have a paycheck. Think of it as chores to pay the mortgage. Maybe you'll get a dishwasher later, but for now the dishes gotta get washed. 2. Find a psychiatric or clinical psychologist and have yourself evaluated for mental illness. This is actually really important. Unlike physical problems where it's sometimes obvious ("I can't read the billboard by the road, I probably need glasses."), mental issues can make subjective impressions unreliable or misleading. > I fail to understand, fail to recognize patterns, am too slow to understand simple concepts and never retain anything. Occasionally understand the individual concepts of something but then her completely lost when they're all combined Too slow compared to what? Fail to recognize based on how many exposures? Taken together this feels like a learning disability that makes you slow to internalize material in the standard way, and you're not building up the mastery of the fundamentals enough before trying to combine them. Again, psychological evaluation is the way to go. Also, don't look for work where you love it all the time. No one's going to pay you for that. What you're after is work that you can do and feel some basic satisfaction when you put it down for the day instead of being cast into a downward spiral by it. You also are allowed to have other stuff that provides the meaning and enrichment for their lives. In fact, you should.
• michele_f 6y ago
  Drink more water.
• burntoutfire 6y ago
  If you're employed as a programmer and not being fired for incompetence, then you are actually smart enough to be a programmer.
  • metroholografix 6y ago
    In more than 20 years of programming, I've never seen an incompetent programmer get fired.
• bettyx1138 6y ago
  UX design?
  • dirtnugget 6y ago
    That is, despite all the fuzz, not something you jump into from maintaining CRUD apps.
• moxylush 6y ago
  I feel you buddy. Programming can be painful if not born to it. Find some other means of telling your story; blog, animation, graphic novel, public speaking, or spray paint on the subway walls.
• pinkrobotics 6y ago
  Do art. Find passion. Do passion. Or, Find love. Have children. Be a great parent. Coding is just a tool, a means to an end, not a career. If you don't like using a keyboard/multimeter/hammer, don't work in an area that requires a keyboard/multimeter/hammer. Painting and parenting can both be very rewarding, and make you very happy over a lifetime. As for money, enough to get by, can be enough. Life doesn't have to be about ways to get money.
  • liziwizi 6y ago
    yes, i tend to agree with the passion-part of this. use your free time to do things that excite you, things that motivate you. a job is a job. you need it to pay the bills. if you can do a job that pays well and you can work in reasonable comfort, appreciate it. there a terrible jobs out there, be glad you don't have to do those. but you also need passion to avoid getting burned out. if you can't find it in your job, find it in your life, in your hobbies, in your relations. your job should just be a means to an end. it should support your private life: food, a roof over your head, security and your passions. maybe visit a therapist to work out what triggers and excites you. a change of scenery (changing your job) might help for a short while, but unless you work on the underlying issue, the problem will catch up and follow you around.
• rexreed 6y ago
  Have you thought about jobs that involve some sort of manual labor / physical activity? Maybe you have "physical" intelligence (it's a thing) or perhaps something more aligned with creative arts? Try doing a bunch of different things. If you're not strapped for money, see if you can shadow a bunch of different careers and see which one sparks interest in you. I agree that it has to do with interest, not aptitude.
• wickedOne 6y ago
  you say you started doing programming as a hobby which means it used to be fun, right? you might want to isolate the aspects of what made it fun back in the days when it was a hobby and what makes it dreadful at the moment and find yourself something which include the first, but lacks the later. personally i think the attractive side of being a developer is creating something. reading you're not interested in business side of tech (analyst, salesman, management) you might want to explore other crafts which maintain the creative part. that could be anything really. i myself started out as a graphic designer before i got involved in programming which might be something you want to explore...
  • throwaway88p 6y ago
    Honestly, I've always enjoyed chasing the "rabbit hole" that came with solving problems. I'm generally poor at putting my thoughts into concrete descriptions, but I'll attempt. It used to be something like this: I have some sort of problem, ideally one that intrigues me, because it's not obvious. I would dive into it, and it would lead down to a rabbit whole of other issues and subjects I would research and would come out with a solution, having been engaged the whole time. Nowadays, problems I encounter are either incredibly shallow, being caused because of some carelessness by myself or someone else and often solved with a 5 minute search, or the complete opposite, too complex for me to even get started with, as people much smarter than me.
• kvothe_ 6y ago
  I feel bad that you are experiencing this problem. If "promoters" stopped putting out ridiculous "call to code" YouTube videos etc. you and many others will probably not be having this problem.
• personaenon 6y ago
  Can totally relate. 25 years as system administrator and I DO NOT want to do DEVops nor SRE. Not sure where to go myself....
  • MandieD 6y ago
    Learn how to do systems admin in the cloud your current employer/industry favors - as a longtime Microsoft platform admin who picked up PowerShell over the past decade to do AD/Exchange/Lync (Skype), Azure was easiest to slide into. Learn how that cloud’s networking works, especially with existing on-prem stuff, and do so in its command line interface. Learn how to do those things in Terraform and Ansible. Be a sysadmin for developers. Help those bright young kids who are network-blind figure out why their stuff isn’t talking to other stuff. Help them when they can’t work out how to deal with the corporate web proxy or why their cloud bills are so high (did they check how many cores their database instance really needed? Did they pick a good VM size, or should they have gone with something with a higher RAM/CPU ratio?)
• asdfadfaf 6y ago
  Not sure why you've phrased all these things as negatives. Whenever I'm faced with something similar I don't wonder if I'm the problem but that the existing material and advice was not meant for people like me and I should look for a way to help myself and those like me.
• helph67 6y ago
  It might help us to know what hobbies/interests you have. Do you like animals or plants? Getting involved in horticulture may be very good for your long term health. In fact, most people would benefit... https://blog.strong-brain.com/outdoors-for-physical-mental-health-green/ https://blog.strong-brain.com/outdoors-for-physical-mental-h...
• ta1234567890 6y ago
  Are there any activities that you enjoy doing for hours at a time without draining you? You might want to use that as a starting point and then branch out. Alternatively, it seems like you might be struggling with anxiety/impatience and you might want to work on that instead of trying to reorient your external life. Some suggestions: try exploring mindfulness and meditation, it's pretty easy to get started with an app like HeadSpace. Also, I would highly recommend the book The Charisma Myth, it's pretty simple and has some excellent exercises to deal with a range of impairing feelings/emotions in an effective way.
• sesm 6y ago
  Try psychotherapy. It is not going to change anything immediately, but maybe you'll start looking at your problem from a different angle and find out that the problem is not your dayjob.
• brailsafe 6y ago
  Certainly smart enough to do the vast majority of work in professional software dev which is basically CRUD, and smart enough to realize that it is easy and boring. I'd go back to school anyway and see of there's not some research in any other field you might be interested in.
• ssss11 6y ago
  I had friends drop out of CS degree or IT career - they each went on to become successful at health & safety, physical education, statistics and formal project management. Theres limitless options but narrowing down your next move is the hard part... what aspects of work do you enjoy and perhaps go from there? dont kick yourself over choosing the wrong path, hindsight is 20:20
• fencepost 6y ago
  Do you actually suck at this or do you have a great case of impostor syndrome (perhaps a pattern you're failing to recognize?)? You might be surprised at where you'd rank compared to the general population. As far as retaining things, there's an awful lot of stuff where you don't need to remember the details - knowing something exists lets you go find details when needed, and the more useful items will stick with you after you start using them regularly. I'll use trees as an example - there are more different kinds of trees and ways to implement them than you can shake a stick at, but most programmers aren't going to need to implement any of them ever. Do you need to remember details about balancing, etc? Probably not.
  • putsjoe 6y ago
    > knowing something exists lets you go find details when needed Thank you for this, it's a nice concise way to explain that even the experienced use Google all of the time.
• musicale 6y ago
  Sadly most people aren't particularly enthusiastic about their work, which is probably a huge waste of human potential, but it's not an unusual situation to be working just to pay the bills. Paying bills is good. It's probably a good idea to keep your day job while you develop interests outside of work and investigate other job options. School can be good, but it can also saddle you with expensive student loans that take several decades to pay off.
• benkitzelman 6y ago
  Fear of change keeps you locked into misery. If at all possible take steps to get a new vision of your future and change careers, cos your current vision of your future is sounding pretty bleak (at least from your perspective). If you need encouragement, try and find others stories of career change, and how they did it - there are plenty of them out there.... From https://www.ambisie.com/st/kerry-kitzelman https://www.ambisie.com/st/kerry-kitzelman : "Some jobs can be like golden handcuffs. They pay well but you feel trapped by them. You are afraid to step out and make a change in case you wind up worse than before. Some jobs are like cardboard handcuffs, they pay nothing but you still allow yourself to be trapped by them because of fear of the unknown. Making a decision to change may indeed result in your fears being realised, but facing that fear gives you the courage to overcome. Since the day I decided to cut the umbilical cord to poorly paid employment, I have not been afraid to apply for any position I think I might enjoy and be rewarded for. It sometimes means steep learning curves and working harder than anyone else on your team, especially those that have the experience you don't. But the reward is that the world opens up to you. There is so much more opportunity than you could possibly have imagined."
• hyperpallium 6y ago
  Diagnosis: bored. See other comments on interest. I'll address your thoughts. You're speaking casually, but your exaggerations can be dangerous when you're vulnerable: > nothing sticks. Not literally true that "nothing" sticks, since you later mention things you recall. > I fail to understand, fail to recognize patterns There's partial understanding and levels of understanding. You can notice progress by comparing your present understanding with before. > am too slow to understand simple concepts Here you admit you do gain understanding, but dismiss it. What is the threshold for fast enough? > and never retain anything. Again, not literally true that "nothing" is retained. > Occasionally understand the individual concepts of something but then her completely lost when they're all combined in some applied method. Again, you admit understanding, but dismiss it because of difficulty in the next step. Also, "completely" lost is not literally true. --- These casual exaggerations are dangerous when you start to believe them, because they aren't literally true. Changing them won't solve the problem completely, but you'll see it more clearly and that helps to solve it! Advice: notice what you _have_ retained/understood/applied (especially in contrast with before) [But the real problem is boredom]
• zoomablemind 6y ago
  I sense a frustration with status quo. As always it's a spectrum of causes. Job, or purpose may just be one. Important one, no doubt, but sometimes not the decisive one. Young hearts are movable, so are their minds, given enough interest either from within or from outside. Being you, I'd first try to figure out how much money I need to feel comfortable. Then ask if I can afford to be less comfortable and for how long. Then I'd look if anyone else depends on me for their comfort. Finally, I'd try to imagine what I'd do in my free time should I forget about all of the above. AND for how long would I be ready to stay oblivious in that. If I see myself making money while doing that thing that I imagined, I try to write it down and later figure out a plan to make that happen... eventually. Meanwhile, I'd take some rest and solve something approacheable. This will sure be a booster, to start believing that you've got that thing that you think matters in life. And you can make it better!
• Alex63 6y ago
  It's interesting to me that you say you did software development as a hobbyist before you made it your job. So presumably there was something that interested you enough to pursue it in your spare time. It would be interesting to know more about what does interest you, as opposed to the things that don't. Maybe you could provide more info? I agree with commentators who say software development can be a terrible job if you aren't really interested in it. I knew a lot of young consultants at Accenture when I worked there in the early 90s who hated the programming roles they were expected to do for the first couple of years. But most of them were not from comp sci backgrounds, and wanted to move into management consulting roles as quickly as possible. Based on your comments about having trouble learning and generalizing, it sounds like you might be happier in a more process-oriented role. Or maybe you would be happier in a role that was more focused on personal interaction?
• cosmosa 6y ago
  I would be grateful you have a job; most software engineering jobs pay relatively well. Be grateful for this pay. Find something outside of work that excites you if work doesn't excite you. Work isn't everything. If the actual thing you do at work doesn't excite you, try making friends at work who do excite you. If writing simple CRUD apps is boring, it sounds like you actually have some aptitude afterall. If it's boring, try to find the sweet spot of challenge with capability. It sounds like you are capable of more than what you are doing now, so gravitate in that direction and move from there.
• d1str0 6y ago
  Game design? Story telling? UX?
• iamcreasy 6y ago
  > I've tried to branch out into a number of different things, but nothing sticks. I fail to understand, fail to recognize patterns, am too slow to understand simple concepts and never retain anything. I am doing my Masters in Statistics after doing my BS in Computer Science. It was overwhelming and like you, I felt I do not understand even the basic concepts and it takes longer to grasp the simpler concepts. But I realized I just have to spend more time on topics I do not understand and ask for help from my peers. From my experience, in terms of learning new subject, I think what you are feeling/facing is expected and you just have to push through it.
• kevindeasis 6y ago
  have you tried taking a break and going on vacation and not think about tech at all?
• vijucat 6y ago
  What subject excites you that doing a course on Coursera or Udemy, for example, doesn't make you feel like, "Groan, 6 hours a week x 6 weeks?!"? Do that course + talk on the Coursera forum with other students and reach out to folks in the industry who'd value seeing that certification on your resume / LinkedIn. About feelings: you have to feel your feelings, but productivity is difficult if you're always feeling down. Don't beat up yourself, which adds a 2nd layer of sadness to an already sad situation. Get enough sleep and work on things that excite you.
• spyckie2 6y ago
  just to add in - you're not slow, you're probably average. When you start working, all the things you can learn in a weekend quickly evaporate within 1-2 years of your working career. The only things left to learn are those that take 3 months or more. These things take the right mindset to learn - continuing to think about them, tackle them, ignoring failure and coming back to it over and over because that's the nature of 3 month learning projects. You may think you're stupid but you're probably average for a programmer. I do agree with the rest of the thread, you're lacking the spark - the thing that other people have that allows them to persist despite the challenge to figure it out. Take a personality test, like MBTI, and use it to figure out your preferences. Introverted Feelers are usually smart enough (NFs) to do programming but hate it, it could describe yourself.
  • Sammi 6y ago
    MBTI is pseudoscience without any empirical backing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indi... Really the only personality test with any strong empirical backing is the Big Five test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits All other personality tests reduce down to the Big Five when you try to test for co variance.
    • spyckie2 6y ago
      The exercise is about finding a language that you can use to describe your shared values. For that use case MBTI is perfectly fine.
• PinkMilkshake 6y ago
  The only fun I've ever had programming was making video games. You don't have to be super smart to make games and I don't think you even have to like them. It's more the rich visual feedback that makes it fun. A game engine is like a giant virtual playground for your code. And in video games there isn't really a "right way" to do anything. There are always weird problems to solve and hacky solutions are fun and even expected. It's the only programming where I've had some laugh out loud moments, like "why are the trees inside out and spinning around?" There are some great game dev postmortems where you learn about the beautiful horrors going on behind the scenes to make a vision a reality. Game dev is forgiving like that. From the book 3D Math Primer for Graphics and Game Development: "If it looks right, it is right".
• silveroriole 6y ago
  Hey. Kind of same here. I’m a good programmer but not motivated enough to really get to grips with the difficult and low-paying fields I’m interested in. Here’s a lazy solution: cut down your hours. Work 4 days or less. If programming’s already so boring, then there’s not much downside to picking a boring well-paid field to offset the salary loss. Use your time to do things you care about instead.
• TrackerFF 6y ago
  Do you enjoy creating stuff with the tools? I've been interested in programming since I was a teen, but it was always the applied side - I enjoy building stuff, and the tools are just like any other tools you'd use. I don't find the tools or methods particularly interesting, not nearly interesting enough to devote a huge part of my time to study them extensively. And it was with that realization that I understood the following: I will never become a good computer scientist, theoretical or practical. So my solution was simple: Do not chase, or focus jobs which require a passion or deep interest in computer science, because: 1) There are far more highly intelligent and highly passionate programmers out there, that are genuinely interested in the theory and technicalities. I will never be able to compete with those. 2) I will burn out spending my days on something which does not naturally interest me (enough to do it for min. 8 hours a day) 3) My energy should be directed at being more productive, where I can actually show good results. We have a finite amount of time to do something, so don't waste it. All these realizations came during college. Some of my classmates would read books on compilers in their spare time, because they simply could not wait for the classes (which we had a year later). Compilers are fascinating on a high level, but not fascinating enough for me to read whole books on them. Furthermore - to me, proof of concept (and novelty) is more fascinating than the optimal solution. There are lots of jobs for both types, you just need to find out what really tickles you, and follow that lead. As others have said, bridging fields ("businessman" and "developer", etc.) can be really rewarding. Think of something that really interests you; Anything! And then try to find out how you can enhance that with development. Do it because it's fun, not because it's something you feel like forcing yourself to do.
  • sambarina 6y ago
    I found myself in the same boat recently, and looking for jobs/roles which is half business, half tech. I looked into "Solutions Engineer", but a bit afraid I loose my ability to code. What did you pursue? Any tips?
    • TrackerFF 6y ago
      I pursued data science, It's a good blend of tech and domain knowledge. The domain is what interests me, and the technical part is what makes it enjoyable. The amount of programming is probably one tenth (if even that) of what a regular software engineer would write, but there's always room for new ideas. Lately I've found myself writing more and more code for automation and other auxiliary stuff. In the end you want to apply technical and scientific methods to the data, guided by your domain expertise, and deliver results to someone. For some, it's nothing more than cleaning excel spreadsheets and generating reports, for others it's building and using state of the art machine learning methods on extremely large data sets - so not all data science jobs are alike from a technical standpoint.
• goodcanadian 6y ago
  I am a software engineer. At least, that is what my job title says. However, I would also find coding CRUD apps boring as hell. What I really am is a problem solver. Currently, I solve problems using code. I think the trick is to get into a company that has problems that interest you. Personally, I work with hardware and embedded systems. As for understanding new tools and techniques, I'm never able to do it unless I have a real problem that I'm working on that requires it. Toy problems and coding exercises won't work because the problem is contrived and isn't a real problem that needs fixing. Math, especially, is a wonderful tool, but I'm not interested in it for its own sake. This doesn't mean you are stupid. So, figure out what you want to be doing and figure out who's doing it. If you are young enough to return to schooling, you are probably young enough to get an entry level position if your skills are a bit weak in the required area.
• severak_cz 6y ago
  I started with programming as hobbyist. I never actually studied it (beside some basics which I already known when they teach me that). I ended up writing CRUDs, various data converters and fixing bizzare bugs in legacy software. Slowly I lost interest in programming and I discovered that I am no longer interested in new tech. I completely missed javascript hype train for example. But it's OK. It's just a job. I have other hobbies/friends to feel fullfilled. Also - I keep programming as hobby. I just more interested WHAT I am doing instead HOW I am doing that (which is just usually easiest path). For example - I really started digging into audio programming - basically coding my own VSTs in Csound/Cabbage. That's really interesting stuff and also sometimes very challenging, because it involves math which I am generally struggling with (I had diagnosed discalculia back at the school). For example: I just spend two days (!) inventing this little piece of code: f(k,n) = (k * n) - (k-1)
• heldrida 6y ago
  We only live once! Respect yourself and your feelings! Don't waste your energy listening to opinions of how you are supposed to feel, they are not you! People love to throw the buzz word around as if coding is the best thing ever...! The end users don't care! Employeers don't care! The people you create this things for don't care about how you feel! Find something that makes you happy and has a meaning in yours and other people's life! Beware that a lot of the people that tells you to take a break and that you're just tired, are not that sympathetic when you'd try to get back to the job market, where they'd ask you to go through 5 stage interviews and totally waste your time for no other reason then their own bullshit job. Be careful! If you do want to try later on and do something related with tech, not necessarily as a coder, have in mind the bizarre startup world! A lot of people get funding for simple business ideas! So try to live a fulfilling life and if you ever want to comeback do your own business and create a nice work environment for your team!
• Wheaties466 6y ago
  I don't think theres such a thing as not smart enough to be a programmers. One of the dumbest people I knew was also one of the better programmers.
• cvaidya1986 6y ago
  Read Scott Adams Book on how to be successful , in a nutshell, be the only one who is in the top twenty percent of 5 to 10 disciplines and you’ll be absolutely unique and valuable and create something only you can create.
• dkersten 6y ago
  Do you find you have problems concentrating and focusing on things that interest you? Also, do you by any chance do a lot of high dopamine low effort activities (eg, videogames, social media, television, recreational drugs, junk food)? If yes to both then perhaps try a dopamine “detox” to reset your receptors. I found that I was finding it harder and harder to do things that take effort, even if they interested me (programming for work or fun, reading mom-fiction material, chores, etc) but instead spent a lot of time on HN (errr..), youtube, playing videogames, eating junk food... By abstaining from all stimulating activities, to make “low dopamine” the new normal, I could make the payoff of high effort activities worthwhile again. Concentration and motivation improved.
• dennis_jeeves 6y ago
  throwaway88p, I think you actually seem to a very mentally healthy guy, despite what the nerds over here suggest. The obsession to solve intellectual problems for the sake of solving problems with no grounding in reality ( or a made up reality) is what is glorified by these nerds here. While this obsessive trait (hard wired) does result in some extraordinary benefits for humanity, it is not mentally rewarding for someone who can see it for what it is i.e grunt work. The ability of be bored is I think just an important useful neuro-mental process, just like the ability to forget. depending of which side you lean it may be useful or be a liability under different circumstances. To end on a pessimistic note, one cannot manufacture interest, unless we come up with a way to skillfully manipulate our neuro hard wiring. I think we a long way off from achieving that.
  • punchclockhero 6y ago
    I remember reading an old post on here by some anon who managed to make themselves enjoy math using a carefully crafted psychedelic trip. Could be a fluke on the level of curing OCD with a gunshot, but also an interesting possibility.
    • dennis_jeeves 6y ago
      I can agree here, most psychedelics ( and to a lesser degree foods and other drugs) will have some mind altering effects. There was someone online a long time back who claimed that there is very reliable way to forget certain memories ( useful when trying to forget traumatic events) by using some combination of substances.
    • giardini 6y ago
      punchclockhero says*>"Could be a fluke on the level of curing OCD with a gunshot, but also an interesting possibility."< No need to get so drastic: our OP should simply sign up for the military. After several years of someone else telling him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will develop a clear direction of his own. Plus they'll train him in a skill! I suggest plumbing, b/c there are plenty of jobs and it pays well!8-))
• mr_gibbins 6y ago
  I'd like to quote the inestimable and late Richard Feynman here. “Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible.” “You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It's their mistake, not my failing.”
• steviesong 6y ago
  Can you remember a time when coding sparked joy in your life? What made you interested in cs? Try to go back to the inspiration.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• vectorboost 6y ago
  I felt a bit similar and what I had to do is actually think and even write down what kind of activities really interests me, give me energy and inspire me. It was quite an interesting mix of tech, teaching, community service, working with youth. Now I try to slowly move to that and so far I feel much better. I wish you good luck!