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Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass
- sulami 12y agoWhy exactly do we need (to bypass) DRM on a coffee machine?
- MichaelGG 12y agoThe video explained that clearly. New Keurig coffee machines, in order to bolster their own coffee sales, refuse to operate on non-Keurig cups. By bypassing it, consumers can buy equipment then put whatever they want in it, returning control to the consumer.
- codezero 12y agoFor what it's worth I appreciate the tldr here since I'm mobile and can't watch the video but am curious none the less.
- click170 12y agoThey don't just refuse to work with non-keurig k-cups, they refuse to work with version 1 k-cups from the old system. Sucks to be anyone who bought more than a box before their machine broke.
- tcfunk 12y agoAlternatively, we could stop wasting so much packaging and take 5 minutes to make a pot of coffee.
- zeroonetwothree 12y agoBut this way I have 5 more minutes to code.
- klinquist 12y agoI add powdered caffeine to my morning Soylent. (really.)
- function_seven 12y agoHoly crap this is the most dystopian-sounding statement I've seen in a long time. (From the point of view of someone who's never heard of "Soylent" outside of the Charlton Heston movie) I intend this humourously, by the way. If you're the type of person who hates bothering with food, seems fair to also skip brewing coffee and just get striaight to the source.
- Semiapies 12y agoI'd recommend anyone trying this to be cautious with the amount you add.
- brianpgordon 12y agoPrimarily because caffeine is extremely bitter and adding too much will ruin it. I tried to put like 500mg of caffeine powder in my cereal once and it was utterly disgusting. I got about 4 spoonfuls in before I couldn't take it anymore.
- nyolfen 12y agowhy wouldn't you just take caffeine pills man
- brianpgordon 12y agoIt's much, much cheaper if you buy the powder. But yeah, I ended up buying gel capsules and making my own pills.
- hasenj 12y ago-10 minutes you spend on breaking the DRM
- TheLoneWolfling 12y agoOne-time cost.
- tomaskazemekas 12y agoMost important part of coding is thinking and and it is best done not in front of the monitor. Making coffee looks like a good process for thinking.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- chiph 12y agoNot a coffee drinker, but the packaging waste is what amazes me about the system. At the end of the day, the trash can at work is half-full of used k-cups. AFAIK, only the foil lid can be recycled.
- giarc 12y agoI love the Keurig. It is very convenient but I agree the waste is a bit much. I paid $10 for reusable K Cups and they work great (just don't overfill)[1]. Keurig even sells their own reusable cups.[2] [1]http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Save-Refillable-Single-cup-Brewers/dp/B008XFE2YO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418225612&sr=8-4&keywords=reusable+k+cups http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Save-Refillable-Single-cup-Brewer... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Keurig-K-Cup-Reusable-Coffee-Filter/dp/B000DLB2FI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418225612&sr=8-2&keywords=reusable+k+cups http://www.amazon.com/Keurig-K-Cup-Reusable-Coffee-Filter/dp...
- mjt0229 12y agoThese are easy to accidentally throw out at the office, unfortunately. Mine lasted about 2 weeks before I forgot to remove it from the machine and it went out with all of the other K-cups that everyone else was throwing out.
- giarc 12y agoI just use mine at home so I don't have this problem. I could see it being an issue in an office though.
- samvinchester 12y agoDon't deal with Keurig, because they are taking a page out of the printer industry, making their machine only compatible with their cartridge / coffee pod so, that they can control the price, keep it high... I would not use a Keurig machine as you cannot properly clean the water container, machines end up with mold and other nasties growing inside the machine, so they are potential health hazards, plus the K-cups made of plastic also add chemical residue to your coffee...another reason to leave it alone! You can also use frenchpress, aeropress or Espresso Machine. You will make far better coffee at ¼ of price. I use Rancilio Hd Silvia & Vario grinder, it is very durable and allows me make high quality coffee. The following article will introduce you to espresso machines, there is listed best espresso machines within various price range&class - http://wikiespresso.com/the-best-espresso-machines-for-the-home/ http://wikiespresso.com/the-best-espresso-machines-for-the-h.... If you want to dig deeper, you can visit coffeegeek and home-barista forums, where community members will help you with great enthusiasm.
- snarfy 12y agoAnother solution is to not buy Keurig machines.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- parennoob 12y agoYeah, I'm gradually coming around to an RMS-y way of thinking – having to tape small bits of an old K-cup onto my Keurig 2.0 is DRM bullshit that I have no room for in my life. Fuck them. Some people will use the new Keurig and its DRMed cups because it provides them with enough value. I will completely bypass this nonsense and make a DRM-free cup of dirt cheap coffee that stimulates my senses, as outlined in another comment. I suggest that you do the same.
- bashinator 12y agoCan I recommend an Aeropress? It's only a little more work than a Keurig (about the same as a french press), and makes some of the best coffee I've ever had. It's also $25, and has no moving parts or electrical components.
- amitutk 12y agoAeropress is the best! Great tasting coffee, cheap machine, easy to clean and maintain.
- markab21 12y agoYup, I agree 100% on the Aeropress. I never thought i'd enjoy such a simple and in-expensive coffee making device as much as I do my Aeropress. I bought one to keep at my office too =D
- girvo 12y agoAnother developer and I share an Aeropress I bought (he bought the metal filter, a must for dark roasted coffee) at work. It's brilliant, and makes amazing coffee with little to no mess. Well worth the money, and much better than a DRM-laden landfill generator.
- dlitz 12y agoWhat kind of engineers keep building these anti-consumer, anti-competition DRM systems? Someone should call them out publicly, by name. The world doesn't need more DRM systems.
- cheeze 12y agoI'll start: Keurig
- dlitz 12y agoNo, I mean the individual engineers.
- markcerqueira 12y agoI really doubt the engineers are the ones who said, "Wouldn't it be great if we made this product decision that would impact revenue positively?"
- pconner 12y agoMaybe they didn't have the option of protesting a design decision from higher up in the company and possibly being out of a job. It may be a crappy thing to do from a consumer perspective, but it's not illegal and arguably not immoral.
- nashashmi 12y agoOr maybe some young inexperienced engineer wanted to show what he could do and did THIS. That is one way of growing up and becoming experienced: bad judgement.
- splitsplat 12y agoCan you start the good deed by sharing your real name and address?
- brandonmenc 12y agoThe kind of engineers who want to supply people with a $140 machine instead of a $500 machine, I'm guessing. Don't like it? Don't buy a Keurig. There are hundreds of other ways to brew coffee at home.
- JoshTriplett 12y agoIt's an amusing video, but note that that same barcode is also what provides coffee/tea-specific brewing parameters to the machine. Using the same barcode for all cups breaks that. (Using a barcode from one coffee on another seems unlikely to seriously affect the results, though.)
- colechristensen 12y agoIf you care enough about the flavor differences, you'll do a whole lot better by not using a kureg in the first place.
- 0942v8653 12y agoIs this a joke? Seems like a lot of people are falling for it...
- akama 12y agoWhy would this be a joke?
- geographomics 12y agoIt just seems so trivial, both in terms of the item being targeted and the workaround, in comparison to the presentation of the website with its custom domain and all, that it most likely has some satirical element to it.
- Sanddancer 12y agoDomains are cheap, and some people just have a flair for the dramatic. I think the satire here is that Keurig spent a lot of money on drm, and it was broken with a $0.01 piece of scotch tape.
- torbit 12y agoI'm wondering if the average k-cup consumer would even try this or just buy cups that work. I know a lot of people that have antivirus protection, but never press the button to actually scan. It is simple, but they don't do it.
- RexRollman 12y agoThe real joke is using DRM to prevent competition. Printer companies have also been doing this.
- AnimalMuppet 12y agoPrinter companies have tried doing this. IIRC, they lost in court.
- 12y ago
- nickbauman 12y agoI have owned two Nespresso machines. They were both great for about 8 months. Then no matter how much I 'cleansed' them they made terrible tasting coffee. You can never get the insides completely clean. I suspect the Keurig has a similar problem. I'm now back to my ceramic filter cone (one-time $20 cost) and the coffee has never tasted better.
- mey 12y agoYou can pry my Breville BES870XL from my cold dead hands.
- devindotcom 12y agoPourover is still my go-to. One of my old ceramic cones I used for years cost me a buck fifty plus tax.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y agoAmmonia is the way to clean a coffee maker.
- nickbauman 12y agoNespresso says ammonia can destroy the coffeemaker. I believe the substance in their cleaning pouches are pure ascorbic acid. I've tried everything. It still makes crappy coffee afterwards.
- sschueller 12y agoDid you use the Nespresso cleaning kit and then run the entire water tank through the machine twice without capsules? I have many Nespresso machines and never had a problem with degrading taste. Usually something else breaks like the milk frother on the Lattissima.
- nickbauman 12y agoYes, I followed the instructions. If you put a coffee from your machine in front of me and one from a traditional machine, I could identify yours by the bad taste I'm certain of it.
- jack-r-abbit 12y agoThis video took me on a little YouTube adventure which led me to this site[1] giving away a little thing to clip onto your K2.0 machine for a nicer looking bypass. I don't have a K2.0 machine so I can't verify that it works. But it appears to be free so what have you got to lose? [1] https://www.gourmet-coffee.com/Keurig-DRM-Freedom-Clip.html https://www.gourmet-coffee.com/Keurig-DRM-Freedom-Clip.html
- shutupalready 12y agoI applaud the fact that they don't seem worried about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that makes it illegal to create devices that bypass DRM. DMCA is supposed to apply only to protecting copyrighted works, but prosecutors and lawyers in general try to extend the laws in all sort of crafty ways, and usually companies are too fearful to try anything proactive.
- jack-r-abbit 12y agoThat depends. Does Keurig even consider this to be DRM and protected under the DMCA? Or is that just what we call it because that is what we talk about on HN.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- comex 12y agoThe relevant clauses in the DMCA read: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." "[..] is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof" Just about any software DRM exists to protect some kind of copyright. In this case, however, I don't think the Keurig authenticity check controls access to any copyrighted work (not even a trivial one like a logo or small program), so it wouldn't count.
- qsymmachus 12y agoDRM-free dirt cheap coffee: 1. Bring water to boil in a pot 2. Add 2 tbsp ground coffee per cup of water 3. Kill the heat, cover for 5 mins 4. Pour into cup through fine colander or cheese cloth Seriously it's delicious and you already have the tools you need in your kitchen.
- devindotcom 12y agoA pourover cone seems a more practical version of this method, or a french press. Though in a pinch it will work!
- qsymmachus 12y agoThose are certainly more civilized options, this is just the cheapest way imaginable. Great for backpacking too, all you need to bring besides your stove is cheese cloth. There's absolutely no correlation between how expensive your coffee making process is and how good it tastes.
- devindotcom 12y agoYeah, if you have money, spend it on nice beans and a burr grinder. My Porlex hand grinder has lasted for years of daily use!
- fishtoaster 12y agoFor the price of a good fine colander, you could buy a $15 Mr. Coffee and automate much of this. People buying keurig machines aren't doing it because they don't know how to make coffee or think it's better tasting- they're doing it for the speed (30-60 seconds) and the convenience.
- jdhawk 12y agoThe second reason they've gained massive popularity is that people all want different shit. "But I want Hot Tea" "But I want vanilla frappa-bullshit" "But I want Hot Cocoa" "Your coffee is too strong" "Your coffee is too weak" It's the expensive convenient machine that shuts everyone the fuck up. What's the price on that?
- munificent 12y agoOne way to look at the razors and blades business model that Keurig is doing here is like so: 1. The consumer purphases product A (here the coffee maker) on the normal consumer market we're all familiar with. 2. Doing so forces the consumer to purchase product B (here K-cups) on a different market. Keurig's goal is to control the second market. By making having all the market power, they can jack up prices to the consumer's detriment. The reason you see companies like this invoking the DMCA or using DRM is because they have no actual competitive advantage in that second market. They are at a disadvantage because they burned money selling product A at a loss to get people into their market.
- Jaecen 12y agoDoes Keurig actually sell their coffee makers at a loss? I've always thought they were overpriced to begin with.
- pcthrowaway 12y agoProbably if it factors in how much R&D went into the DRM, the production price per unit increases. Nothing else about it is terribly complicated.
- nirvdrum 12y agoThe Boston Globe Magazine had a pretty good piece on them a few years back. It was far easier to read in print, but I think this the article: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/2011/0807/ http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/2011/0807/ Most of the R&D went into the cups themselves. Simple as they seem, it appears the company went through a lot of iterations to get the right gas mixture and volume right to have fresh coffee with long shelf-life.
- rancur 12y agoif by right gas mixture you mean 100% nitrogen, it's inert, and is used in tires and bags of chips. When the bags of chips are opened, however, the other special ingredient 'crisp' that they put in escapes
- intopieces 12y agoFor a single cup of coffee, I'm partial to the AeroPress. It takes a bit more work, but the strange looks I get from my coworkers is worth it.
- bhrgunatha 12y agoThe Aeropress makes the best coffee I've ever had at home. I've tried moka pots, regular coffee brewers and French presses. The Aeropress is better than all of those hands down.
- reillyse 12y agoHave you tried a Chemex or other pour over?
- shoover 12y agoYep, it was an immediate upgrade when my wife wanted coffee after our second child was born. When I found out my dad was pressing two cups through the Aeropress every morning to take to work, I couldn't buy him a Chemex fast enough.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y agoOn the subject of leaching dangerous chemicals into coffee, moka pots are definitely bad idea. The coffee absolutely picks up a lot of aluminum.
- firloop 12y agoI like Aeropress better than everything you listed, but I think a pourover with my glass V60 has to beat even Aeropress. I still use my Aeropress once or twice a week, but nothing beats a solid pourover, especially pourover iced coffee.
- guelo 12y agoCall me paranoid but I refuse to drink hot liquids out of plastic containers of any kind. A glass french press is the way to go.
- boynamedsue 12y agoHe's wearing a brass rat! [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_class_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_class_ring
- mwti 12y agoMy Keurig's electronics died and I was able to recreate them with an Arudino: http://i.imgur.com/1wWxu37.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1wWxu37.jpg With this I can customize the temperature and use PWM on the pump to adjust pressure/flow. :D If I had to use that 2.0 model I'd just lobotomize it right out of the box.
- landr0id 12y agoHow did you go about reverse engineering it?
- Semiapies 12y agoI'd be curious to read about that, myself.
- mwti 12y agoPretty simple, actually!! This model (B31) contains: - 12VDC air pump to push water from tank into coffee pod - 10K thermistor, stuck in the tank - 1400 Watt heating element I wired all three to the Arduino through a transistor for the pump, a resistor divider to use analogRead() and calculate temperature, and a mechanical relay. The Arduino uses 4 buttons: heating element toggle, temperature up/down, and pump engage. I didn't bother with the water sense non-sense Keurig uses (to know if water is in the tank or reservoir), so it pretty much checks temperature and if it is low engages the relay. When it's done I then hit the button to dump the water through the coffee (so it's not as automated as Keurig, but better than buying a new one). Code is here: http://pastebin.com/0fNtYcyM http://pastebin.com/0fNtYcyM The thing was a pain to disassemble too. It's one of those "oooooooohhhh that's how it's put together" products where you have completely destroyed the plastic tabs before you see the one magic screw holding it together.
- pkaye 12y agoWhat would happen if there is no water in the reservoir and you turned on the heating element?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- gburt 12y agoNow that I am aware they're trying to monopolize small plastic coffee packets, there's no possible way I'd buy anything from them. Build products for consumers, not against them. Although, on second thought, I guess I was never going to buy a Keurig in the first place; producing a ton of trash in exchange for expensive mediocre coffee was enough to convince me it was a bad idea?
- DigitalSea 12y agoI love how such a simple solution can bypass a DRM scheme that Keurig probably invested considerable time and effort into producing. In some cases DRM is warranted, but for a coffee machine, it is just plain ridiculous and anticompetitive to have DRM to block out competitor coffee pods when history has proven that printer manufacturers like HP have been trying and consistently failing to do this for years now.
- chinpokomon 12y agoSo simple to bypass, I expect they didn't spend much effort or money at all. They aren't trying to make an unbreakable system, they're trying to make a deterrent. If they had made the detection method too complicated, it could lead to false rejections and that would ultimately be more costly. They just needed a method that they can prove in court that a third party is using to defeat their DRM. This is the equivalent to ROT-13 encryption.
- adamswann 12y agoI agree, but I don't know that it's even necessary for Keurig to go to court to realize the value of the DRM scheme. Their weak DRM certainly serves as a deterrent to the average consumer, but even more so to the mainstream coffee distributors that have been selling "knock off" cups up to this point. Community Coffee, which is a major roaster/distributor in the deep south, just caved and penned a licensing agreement with Keurig: http://theadvocate.com/news/acadiana/10981551-123/community-coffee-keurig-announce-licensing http://theadvocate.com/news/acadiana/10981551-123/community-... Prior to the (negative) publicity surrounding the 2.0 launch, I didn't pay enough attention to notice that the Community Coffee K-cups I've bought (exclusively and in bulk at Sam's Club) for the three or four years that I've owned the machine weren't bonafide Keurig cups, but I think a typical consumer (and retailers, too) would likely be put off if the pods came with instructions for cutting the lid off an authentic Keurig cup and taping them onto the machine. I'm betting every region has their version of Community Coffee and that Keurig will succeed in converting many of them into licensees. There might be negative publicity that is seen by those of us who care about such things, but on average, Keurig will come out ahead -- maybe without filing a lawsuit.
- jrockway 12y agoClassic replay attack.
- bauer 12y agoMany bothans died to bring us this information.
- pavel_lishin 12y agoIt's a frap!
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- lberk 12y agoI really wonder how much money Keurig has wasted trying to develop DRM for their machines. Would have been better off putting that money into designing better machines.
- acd 12y agoActually this is the same business model as consoles. Sell the hardware at very low to zero margin, make money on the capsules/games which sell at a premium. Fun that they hacked this DRM with plain tape
- codemac 12y agoWell, due to content management, I can't click play on the video in the website? > This video contains content from SME. https://i.imgur.com/4wlnL22.png https://i.imgur.com/4wlnL22.png This has happened multiple times to me, today, all from SME. So many things in life require scissors, tape, and hacks to qualify for "decent" to me now.
- jdpage 12y agoIt has the Imperial March from Star Wars as the background music, which was definitely a bad idea.
- WorldWideWayne 12y agoI really hate YouTube and I hope something else comes along to take a bite out of it's market share. The most annoying thing to me is that they require you to be logged in to disable Annotations and other settings. And...even if I do choose to login, it conveniently "forgets" to disable Annotations for some reason.
- programminggeek 12y agoYou know what's better than using a Keurig? Get an Aeropress. It's easy, awesome, and tastes better than Keurig. Also, Aeropress doesn't have all that not so eco friendly waste that Keurig's K-Cups have. There is no DRM on Aeropress.
- reillyse 12y ago1) Keurig makes terrible coffee why would you ever want to use one? 2) that is all.
- kardos 12y agoReminds me of this well thought out copy protection from a decade ago: http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/05/52665 http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/05/52...
- wtallis 12y ago> "I wonder what type of copy protection will come next?" one posting on alt.music.prince read. "Maybe they'll ban markers." Instead, they shipped rootkits on music CDs. In hindsight, banning markers would have made too much sense.
- bdcravens 12y agoDid the same thing a few years ago with a Tassimo.
- Karunamon 12y agoAt least there is a technical reason for that to exist - the Tassimo barcodes control the brewing process (temperature, pressure, and so on).
- CWuestefeld 12y agoSame here. We accidentally bought a case of discs that's only compatible with commercial machines. We noticed that the barcodes differed for the same kind of coffee in the home machine, so we just cut the barcodes from the old coffee, reinforce with some scotch tape, and temporarily attach it to each new disc we put into the machine.
- billhendricksjr 12y agoAnyone who uses a Keurig needs to: 1) punch themselves in the nuts, 2) go plant a tree. If you drink it out of a styrofoam cup, plant 2 trees.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- bobwaycott 12y agothat is, if the person only uses disposable K-cups. this wouldn't apply to anyone using it to brew their own coffee without trashing a plastic cup every time.
- billhendricksjr 12y agoAgree, nut punching not required for re-usable cups. I have yet to see someone actually use them, though, and I've seen a lot of Keurig machines.
- akira2501 12y ago1) It's a decent one-shot coffee maker. 2) You can buy reusable cups[1]. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051SU0OW http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051SU0OW
- kalleboo 12y ago> 2) You can buy reusable cups Not anymore you can't: Not compatible with the Keurig 2.0
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- notduncansmith 12y agoI'll probably get downvoted but fuck it - I use disposable plastic K-cups every day, and I do it with gusto. Some days I use styrofoam cups, but most days I use my mug.
- beefsack 12y agoI didn't even realise there was something like this on the market, I'll notch it up as another reason I love my Aeropress.
- adityasankar 12y agoNot siding with Keurig, but just out of curiosity, how would you to create a DRM scheme that can't be bypassed with this replay attack? Apparently [0] the DRM works by shining a light on an ink marking and registering the wavelength of the light reflected back. I figure one simple scheme would be to 'burn' the key after it is read. i.e. physically disable the DRM ink by heat/perforation/other ink, so that once used, the signature ink cannot be reused. Curious what other HN-ers would come up with. And hoping Keurig doesn't get any ideas from this. ;) [0] http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/30/5857030/keurig-digital-rights-management-coffee-pod-pirates http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/30/5857030/keurig-digital-rig...
- DanBC 12y agoIn England there used to be "holographic" telephone cards to be used in public payphones. A laser would burn part of a strip for each credit used. http://technologyandarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/how-bt-phone-cards-works.html http://technologyandarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/how-bt-p... (There must be better descriptions of them out there).
- underpantsgnome 12y agoI'll bite. Cut power to the heat source/declaw the perforator/plug up the ink jet. I have physical access, after all. Keurig is in the position that they can attach a number to each one of their coffee cups, and the machine will refuse to brew if the number doesn't prove the cup is authentic. If they give all the cups the same number, as they apparently have chosen here, than all anyone has to do is present that number again, and voila, the coffeemaker will execute whatever cup they feed it. Maybe they get smart and give each and every cup a different password. Of course the machines have to recognize these passwords, so they have to start with a known list of length N, where N is the total number coffee cups they ever expect to sell for this line of machines. They put all these passwords through their favorite one-way function, stuff the hashes in a newline-delimited text file, and hope it fits in a few gigabytes. Now once the machine encounters a matching password, it brews one cup, but "crosses off" that password and won't brew for it again.
- 12y ago
- shmerl 12y agoDoes anyone use such junk after they introduced DRM? Such companies deserve oblivion.
- curiously 12y agoWhen computer vision is used for such evil practices, I am at a loss for words. The music was PERFECT. I wonder what Keurig 3.0 DRM will look like. Would it have some sort of chemical tagging ability which are only found in Keurig coffee? I'm surprised there isn't any public backslash over such predatory practices. What's next? A bed that farts because you didn't buy the same brand of blankets and pillow? A toilet that won't flush because you didn't use their brand of cleaner?
- kefka 12y agoTheir first problem was: They bought a Keurig. The second problem was: They didn't sell or get rid of said Keurig. The third problem was: They tried to polish a turd. It's still a turd, just a bit now covered up.
- reginawong 12y agoI almost (not really) want to buy a Keurig machine JUST so I can hack it. Side question: any of you use the term "K-Cups" instead of "Keurig cups"?
- jack-r-abbit 12y agoK-cup® is their official name. I've never heard anyone use "Keurig cup" before. Is that a thing where you are?
- lepht 12y agoI worked at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters (the owners of Keurig) around the time they were first gaining traction, and remember them briefly being called "Keurig cups" internally before the "K-cup" shorthand caught on.
- starlineventure 12y agoNice solution for corporate foolishness
- hasenj 12y agoWhy use a coffee machine anyway? I never got the point of them. The coffee they make tastes bad anyway. Just use a good old ibrik. It costs $3 to $10 depending on size and where you buy it from. The more expensive ones will probably cost $30? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2DyulKd6vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2DyulKd6vw
- hw 12y agoAnyone else waiting for the Arist? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/236195807/arist-brews-coffee-like-the-best-baristas-anytime https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/236195807/arist-brews-c... I have a feeling if it's successful, it's going to give Keurig some headaches.
- brandonmenc 12y agoWhy? The Arist makes espresso drinks and will cost at least $400 whereas the Keurig costs less than $150 and makes drip coffee. The Arist looks great, but there is probably very little crossover between the two sets of customers.
- q3k 12y agoThere's no way they'll be able to fit so many features at in a $300 product. There's already a pretty competitive bean-to-cup coffee machine market, and $300 price point usually gets you a machine that grinds, brews, dispenses and sometimes froths - very poorly, and requires maintenance. Heck, even a good, “real” espresso machine and grinder (like a Rancilio Silvia and Bartza Vario, entry level coffee geek favourites) combo will set you back around $1k. It's a pipe dream.
- adambard 12y agoThis sounded real familiar, so I went and dug up the last one of these I heard of. The ZPM Nocturn was supposed to be a $400 espresso machine that used a fancy thermoblock instead of a boiler to save costs (cheap espresso machines use thermoblocks, but the kickstarter claimed that their design was better enough to compete with a boiler). This is straight from their kickstarter page: [1] > There are basically two kinds of home espresso machines on the market today. The affordable models have no good mechanism of temperature or pressure control. These machines can’t pull consistent shots. So if you're serious about espresso, you’ll need one of the higher-end machines - they make great coffee, but they also start around $700. > [...] > Our machine will retail for around $400, but it's available to you guys on Kickstarter for only $200! That was in 2012. Today, they still seem to be at the preorder stage, but their machine is now $800. [2] [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-control... [2] http://store.zpmespresso.com/collections/frontpage/products/nocturn-espresso-machine http://store.zpmespresso.com/collections/frontpage/products/...
- michaelbuddy 12y agoKeurig adding DRM was equivalent to a plea to be hacked. But I was thinking, Keurig probably doesn't care about people who mod their machines as much as they want to target counterfeiters.
- jonalmeida 12y agoI have a strange need to watch Star Wars now.. Jokes aside, this is a neat hack but I wonder if it would be possible to remove the DRM check from the electronics side itself. I don't have a Keurig machine myself, so I wouldn't dare opening up one (after making a cup) to see what you could hack at.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- josteink 12y agoDiscussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?
- valleyer 12y agoMoney.
- DanBC 12y ago"The Calorie Man" (short story by Paulo Bacigalupi) is about licenced crops and agribusiness. It'd be neat to read something similar about domestic DRM. http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/WindupStories.pdf http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/WindupStories.pdf
- kcmarshall 12y agoAll of the stories in Bacigalupi's _The_Windup_Girl_ universe contain sub-plots about the 'Calorie Cartels' based in Iowa. Really good reading for a near-apocalyptic vision of a post-Oil, mid-climate crisis world. Full-on Trigger Warning for some of the sexual content in _The_Windup_Girl_ though.
- nkurz 12y agoWow! You are right. This is an incredibly apt dystopian view of the future of DRM. Read it.
- arcosdev 12y agoWe started drinking garbage coffee
- ynniv 12y agoYes! If you care more about coffee and less about convenience you'll end up pouring freshly ground beans over hot water and there isn't a damn thing technology can do to interfere there.
- ThePhysicist 12y agoThat's a really nice hack, I fear though that the next generation of "broken by design" consumer electronics devices will make use of much more sophisticated DRM technologies to make sure you only use them as intended by the manufacturer. An example is the German startup Bonaverde (http://www.bonaverde.com http://www.bonaverde.com), which manufactures a coffee machine that not only grinds but also roasts your coffee beans. To make sure that you use only their certified (and pricey) coffee beans they include an RFID chip with each package that you have to scan in order to start the brewing process. No tag, no coffee. There is also a Gizmodo article that nicely sums up the Bonaverde story: http://gizmodo.com/kickstarter-project-finds-exciting-new-way-to-screw-its-1663145598 http://gizmodo.com/kickstarter-project-finds-exciting-new-wa...
- NullReference 12y agoCan't you just save an empty bag, and then fill it with any beans you want? My general thoughts about companies trying to implement DRM is that there's always some stupidly simple hack around it. Like this Keurig hack. I guarantee that within a week or two of this coming out someone will just find another way to hack around the DRM. Better mousetraps just breed cleverer mice.
- ThePhysicist 12y agoNot sure about this, but from reading the article the answer is probably no. I hope of course that there will be a workaround, as you say even very sophisticated DRM schemes eventually get cracked, it just makes me sad to see that instead of building technology that empowers the end user, these companies deliberately choose to cripple their products for the sake of higher profit.
- xresonance 12y agoBonaverde changed their approach, and removed the DRM from the machine (thankfully!) From their update email: "It will also open access to the machine so that you can use whichever green beans you want."
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- shoover 12y agoThat's a cool hack. It could be handy on the road as more hotels buy these units.
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- mkremer90 12y agoThey are officially labeling us as "attackers" on seclists now: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Dec/37 http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Dec/37
- JshWright 12y agoWho do you mean by 'they' and 'us' there? That's pretty clearly satire...
- runj__ 12y ago"Since no fix is currently available, owners of Keurig 2.0 systems may wish to take additional steps to secure the device, such as keeping the device in a locked cabinet, or using a cable lock to prevent the device from being plugged in when not being used by an authorized user." Love it
- ascendantlogic 12y agoI type "LOL" at a lot of things without actually laughing out loud, but I can't put into words how hysterical this sentence is: "Step 5: Attacker closes the Keurig, and is able to brew coffee using the non-genuine K-Cup." THE ATTACKER IS BREWING COFFEE.
- giarc 12y agoThis Canadian company believes the UV ink on the packaging is not protected and they can simply produce their own cups with the same ink. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/keurig-s-coffee-supremacy-challenged-by-canadian-firm-1.2787075 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/keurig-s-coffee-supremacy-ch...
- nightmedia 12y agoWhat is funny is that it would have taken Keurig just a bit more effort to make the chip so that it has an unique signature. That way the machine will store the numbers it had already processed, and this hack would only allow you to cheat if you have more than one machine, but you'd still need to buy originals half of the time.
- logfromblammo 12y agoApproaching this from the perspective of someone who drinks perhaps 250 mL of coffee per year, I am utterly mystified that the commodity coffee beverage product can still support so many niche businesses. In this very discussion, I have seen people describe the way they make their own coffee, and it is almost identical to the way U.S.A.-C.S.A. civil war soldiers made theirs in camp. And I have seen people describe their heavily-modded robotic coffee makers, using consumables pre-processed in bulk by industrial-scale machinery to provide a more consistent product. And this makes me think that Keurig is not just pissing into the wind, but directing their little stream against a waterfall. The coffee market is huge, and more ancient by far than most other product markets. It is also thoroughly commoditized. There is simply no way for any company to enjoy pricing power in it without an improbably vast cartel or some strictly policed patents and trademarks. Why should the collective society of coffee-drinkers indulge Keurig's attempt to achieve economic profits (positive returns when considering opportunity cost) by allowing them to differentiate their sub-market to the point where they enjoy pricing power in it? Is their coffee that much better than all available alternatives? I have similar questions about Starbucks. How do they manage to charge more than the basic commodity price? It almost seems as though the coffee itself is not the whole product, but it also includes the ritual and ceremony of preparing it. It also looks quite a bit like the market for wines and beers, where the price that the market will bear is determined mostly by the printing on the label. Given those assumptions, my analysis is that Keurig is approaching their problem from the worst possible angle. Inserting technical countermeasures into the hardware will never work (as repeatedly demonstrated by pwn-your-own-device hackers). They should instead pour that cash into advertising and reward-based psychology. Institute some form of intermittent reward system for using genuine, trademark-branded consumables. You cannot ever employ enough clever engineers to defeat the legion of people with physical possession of the item and a desire to make it do what its owner desires, instead of obeying its pre-programmed manufacturer directives. Annoying your customers simply does not add value to your product.
- frogpelt 12y agoI think this whole "hack the Keurig 2.0 DRM" has created more press for their coffee maker than they would have otherwise had. I expect them to sell more because of it.
- bitwize 12y agoIt's the coffee equivalent of the bypasses used for certain unlicensed NES and SNES games: the game's cartridge had a bracket or port into which you would plug a licensed game, and the unlicensed game had pass-throughs for the signal lines to the system's DRM chip, allowing the unlicensed game to use the licensed game's authority.
- stealthlogic 12y agoGlad I have the old model with no DRM. The fact that Keurig did this has earned my contempt. I will not be purchasing another in the future.