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Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

658 points by mgrunin 13y ago

This story dates back to December 8th when I initiated an ACH transfer with CoinBase.com for a total sum of $35,104.11. On that very same day, the system informed me that I would be credited with the bitcoins come December 13th. December 13th came by and it was this past Friday. No coins ever came in, the only thing CoinBase did was lock in a price for me @ $868.91. Again, they locked in a price and didn't give me coins on the day they told me they would deliver the coins.Ever since the 13th, my transaction page has been showing the following: http://i.imgur.com/R2qEn8E.png As you can tell, the funds cleared their end on the 11th. BUT... it still says pending for crediting the coins.<p>This is how the history page looks like: http://i.imgur.com/BQ4fUwZ.png Just take a look at that...it actually says that the transaction has been completed here. Let us now look at the email conversation: http://i.imgur.com/6SQht98.png http://i.imgur.com/eNlIS0V.png I gave their team eight hours to get back to me and settle the issue. They have now missed that deadline so I am taking this matter a bit public. Further avoidance by them will lead me to make a few calls to news stations. I have the right contacts to easily put myself in the media. Now the real dilemma for me here is the fact that while CoinBase.com has locked in a price for me, because they have failed to deliver I cannot sell my coins at any rate. Bitcoins could drop down to $200, and only then might they deliver the coins. The issue at that point is that I would be down a crazy percent already. If they had delivered the coins on the 13th as they had initially promised to, there would not be this issue.<p>Give me a break, the company just secured $25m in VC and this is how they are treating their clientele.<p>

wavefunction 13y ago
Speculation is a risky endeavor.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  Yes, but the usual significant expected risk is in the market value of the speculative commodity, not whether or not the broker ever bothers to execute your order.
- arun_bansal 13y ago
  Its one thing to speculate on price of BTC, its another to worry about whether your exchange will hold up.
- meowface 13y ago
  The problem isn't speculation, but rather that he paid money and was informed he would receive the coins on a certain date, but did not receive them then. The "price lock in" is perfectly valid so long as they inform the buyer the length of the processing period. If they give false information about that, though, it's the vendor's fault, not the buyer's.
mek 13y ago
LOL
zt 13y ago
ACH transactions are reversible FWIW.
- mgrunin 13y ago
  Yes, I am aware of that. I told them in my last email that I will be reversing my ACH if they continue to ignore me.
  - jhardcastle 13y ago
    Reverse now. You have plenty of proof. There's no need to take a bath on this.
  - dusing 13y ago
    you should just get it reversed as soon as possible. Combined with the fall of BTC you are lucky to have a "out". Also once you threaten the reversal there isn't much reason for them to work with you. What if they give you BTC tomorrow and you reversed the ACH already.
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      Second this. Get your money back, live to fight another day. Why ask for delivery and suffer a loss?
  - state 13y ago
    Could you talk about why you don't want to reverse it?
  - bushido 13y ago
    Actually having this option is really good and you should use it, as there could be a likelihood of "legitimate" BTC services facing bank runs in the current panic. Of course, you could be contributing in a bank run, though that's not your concern.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    You are aware that the BTC value just dropped dramatically right? Why dont you reverse if thats possible?
justinzollars 13y ago
ouch
_nato_ 13y ago
Yikes! I really hope this gets resolved for you!
Moral_ 13y ago
I feel bad for you, honestly. But serious question as well: Would you have went public with this if the price hadn't fallen dramatically? Perhaps if it went back up to $1500 a coin would things be different? Either way I hope things get resolved for you.
- mgrunin 13y ago
  Course not. But all I am asking for them is that they had delivered the coins on the day they said they would. If BTC went up, I would have had no advantage of them crediting me the coins on the day it was actually due or today.
  - Moral_ 13y ago
    Understandable, thanks for your response.
- bushido 13y ago
  Actually he probably still should have (and perhaps would have) taken this public, as they have failed to deliver the instrument in a timely manner and the OP could have bought and sold bitcoin taking advantage of price movements. This is a clear case of "bucketing"[0] whether done intentionally or not. Its illegal regardless if it seemingly "worked out". [0] http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bucketing.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bucketing.asp
- makomk 13y ago
  If the price went back up to $1500 a coin, Coinbase would cancel his transaction whether he wanted them to or not despite the supposed price lockin (and return his dollars in their own sweet time). Their usual justification is "excessive risk".
  - Istof 13y ago
    They also have an history of halting Bitcoin sales when it's value drops too much.
tylerlh 13y ago
FWIW, I made a small transaction with Coinbase not long ago and while they "guaranteed" the coins would be in my account by a certain date, they didn't actually deposit them until 2-3 days after that. Struck me as pretty odd. Hope your situation gets settled quickly.
AH4oFVbPT4f8 13y ago
Did you have prior experience with CoinBase and buying bitcoins from them? If not, why didn't you start with 1k to make sure the transaction went smoothly before sending over 35k?
- mgrunin 13y ago
  I have purchased from them before, to a tune of $18k over several different transactions.
arun_bansal 13y ago
Since it has taken this long, I guess you would rather have the lock price removed. It's around ~551.57 vs your original 868.91
- mgrunin 13y ago
  Yes, and that is only because they didn't deliver the coins on the day they locked in the price even though they said they would deliver then.
  - arun_bansal 13y ago
    I too had a sour experience with them, took more than 7 days to transfer coins after transfer took place.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - alttab 13y ago
    Coinbase will close their doors forever before honoring price lock removal. You took a risk, one that is a lot harder to read than the Fed-drunk stock market. From what I can gather coinbase makes their money by throwing away or backing out transactions they would take a loss on. You sir, gave them $35k for digital beanie babies. You get what you pay for. And you did. Why aren't you buying btc at an exchange? Were you planning on moving them?
justin66 13y ago
> Further avoidance by them will lead me to make a few calls to news stations. Eek. The best case scenario is that you'll get a news blurb on local TV where you're portrayed as a sucker. "Weird online currency thing does weird stuff in the way you'd expect weird online currency thing to do, and look at this greedy rube who got sucked in and lost it all! Film at 11."
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  That might be a probable scenario, but it's certainly not the best case.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    ActualLOL at that correction.
- seobeaver 13y ago
  Clearly you don't know who mGrunin is. I'd do a little research before making comments like the one above.
  - nawitus 13y ago
    Well, maybe you could post a two-sentence summary and save us all the trouble?
    - oijaf888 13y ago
      He seems to be some affiliate marketer who also peddles get rich quick via trading options products.
      - mgrunin 13y ago
        If you actually spent a minute watching any of my trading videos you would see that I never pitch a single product or service in them. What I offered in my videos was complete transparency on my trading.
deleted 13y ago
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melling 13y ago
Those guys in finance don't make or sell anything. They're just greedy. Too many of the smartest people go into it just to make money... Me on the other hand, I'm gonna make a difference. Where can I get me some of those Bitcoins!?
agib 13y ago
I also have some very strange behavior going on in my account: https://twitter.com/agibralter/status/411685377015947264 https://twitter.com/agibralter/status/411685377015947264 Basically they're showing a transaction of selling BTC that I never made or authorized. Also, it's showing up in my transaction list but not in my history... They said they're looking into it, but I haven't heard back in days.
- agib 13y ago
  Update: I just logged in and saw the coins returned to me as a new, separate transaction. Very strange. Still no word from customer service.
- VMG 13y ago
  check if you got an API key and disable it - there were a few posts on reddit about this
- bfell 13y ago
  Same thing happened to me except for the bitcoin magically reappearing. Since this is now Coinbase's unofficial support forum - issue 52050 - 4 weeks and counting....
jbverschoor 13y ago
Tbh... I would still reverse it. I refuse to do business anymore with companies that do not respond.
sheetjs 13y ago
From their terms of service: > Coinbase does not guarantee the value of bitcoin. You acknowledge that the price or value of bitcoin can change rapidly, decrease, and potentially even fall to zero. You acknowledge that holding bitcoin is high risk. You agree to deliver the agreed upon payment for bitcoin upon confirmation of an order, regardless of changes in bitcoin value. > Coinbase will make reasonable efforts to ensure that requests for electronic debits and credits involving bank accounts, credit cards, and check issuances are processed in a timely manner but Coinbase makes no representations or warranties regarding the amount of time needed to complete processing because Coinbase services are dependent upon many factors outside of our control, such as delays in the banking system or the U.S. or international mail service. It's possible that Coinbase is experiencing delays, and their terms of service give them a clear escape path. It sucks that they are holding onto your money, but consider this a learning experience: always start small, make sure everything smells right, and then scale up. If they were holding onto 35.10 rather than 35.10K, I suspect you would react differently
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  If they were holding onto 35.10 rather than 35.10K, I suspect you would react differently The courts tend to as well.
  - bushido 13y ago
    Actually you'd be wrong in this case as it is an illegal practice ("bucketing") whether due to a technical error, human error or malicious intent. The settlement amount may defer for the plaintiff, but the as it would be considered as/or similar to securities fraud the repercussions for the company could be dire.
    - oijaf888 13y ago
      What is "bucketing"? Isn't this a simple case of goods paid for but not received? This is the same as if I buy 100 gallons of fuel oil for $5 and they don't deliver it.
heavymark 13y ago
I'd go straight to anyone and anyone who will listen. Companies don't escalate until they need to. HackerNews is big for us technies but you need to blow up their twitter,facebook, retweets daily as every day your going to lose value as bitcoin continues to drop with the news about china.
7Figures2Commas 13y ago
Welcome to counterparty risk, Bitcoin style.
- codegeek 13y ago
  shouldn't it be more like Market Risk ?
  - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
    In this case, the counterparty to the transaction appears unable to meet its obligations, at least according to the OP. That's counterparty risk.
    - codegeek 13y ago
      But the ACH is completely reversible. So not really a risk specially considering that price has fallen :).
      - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
        There are rules that govern ACH reversals. My understanding is that reversals are permitted in cases where the amount transferred was incorrect or the transfer was not authorized. As another poster on this thread noted, Coinbase's terms of service appears to give them great flexibility in processing transactions. The OP, on the other hand, seems to have the understanding that Coinbase was obligated to complete his transaction within a very specific period of time. This is a dispute between two parties to a transaction. One is arguing that his counterparty failed to meet its obligations; it appears the other has the ability to argue that under its terms of service those supposed obligations never existed. Given the amount of money involved, either party might be motivated to resolve this matter through legal action. Again, this is all an inherent part of the wonderful world of counterparty risk.
      - PeterisP 13y ago
        ACH is not completely reversible - it's reversible in certain cases depending on the legal reasons for the reversal. IANAL, but I believe that simply having a dispute with the other party is not valid grounds - you authorised the payment, it went to the intended beneficiary, so if they don't / can't pay you back, it's your loss.
ffrryuu 13y ago
I got some Tulips you can buy to make up your loss on.
mek 13y ago
Thanks for the heads up! I just registered with them and I was adding my bank details to enable instant-buy and snap some BTC tonight when they drop below 5 USD! :)
kjackson2012 13y ago
Do an ACH chargeback as quickly as possible, don't be an idiot and wait for a response, otherwise you may miss your opportunity to walk away without losing $10k.
nathas 13y ago
I hate to be that guy, but Coinbase is pretty clear that you'll get your coins _eventually_. If I were doing thousands in transfers, I'd absolutely be using an exchange. They're also a small start up, funding or not. Their support team has always come through and usually eats the cost difference if it was a bump on their end. I'd just wait it out.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  Getting your funds 'eventually' is not reasonable nor acceptable for financial deals. A stock/foreign currency/whatever to-be-settled on 16th december is one item, the same stock to-be-settled on 17th december is a completely different item - it certainly has a different price, and there are a bunch of valid finance situations when you don't need the purchase at all if it's delayed; you just need the money back + compensation for the breach of agreement. There's a term for when a financial institution is unable to settle deals on the agreed day and needs to postpone - it's called insolvency. Such repeated situations are quite valid reasons to require them to cease operating and liquidate all assets in order to pay out their debts.
- d23 13y ago
  Can you explain the difference between Coinbase and an exchange? I'm afraid now that an order I put in could be futzed up.
  - nathas 13y ago
    Sure. Coinbase, as far as I know, sources its coins from the exchanges (Mt Gox, Bitstamp, btc-e, etc). I could be wrong about this. Coinbase acts as a nice middleman where you can securely link your bank account, and for this convenience Coinbase charges you a higher fee than the exchanges. They procure your coins, handle the financial leg work, and suddenly you have access to bitcoins. I wouldn't worry about it. I've used both quite a bit. It was a huge pain in the ass to gain access to Mt Gox. Coinbase is just better imo. The support team always comes through for any problems.
- deleted 13y ago
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PeterisP 13y ago
To all of you who say that Bitcoin shouldn't be regulated - this is what it results in. If it was any regulated financial deal - say, purchase of stock or Yen - then there are clear rules on how to handle that, namely, you'd be entitled to at least compensation for any decrease between the 'locked' price at the agreed settlement date and the real settlement, whenever it may happen, and the interest for the period. Repeated such situations would result in a rapid audit to verify if they really have enough assets to pay out all their debts, and if not, shut them down immediately. Now you're quite screwed, while coinbase has taken a profit on this (and probably other) deals by delaying these settlements. And what are you going to do if you don't get all the losses covered? Your options are quite limited.
- jonpaul 13y ago
  No way. Regulation won't solve these sort of things. It will just make the barrier to entry that much higher. Now people have a voice more so than ever before. If companies don't act appropriately, people can post stories and complaints online. The companies reputation will then suffer. This is exactly what's happening here.
  - chasing 13y ago
    Ah, the libertarian fantasy of the completely informed and rational public, always willing and able to promote the good guys and eradicate the bad guys...
    - VMG 13y ago
      as opposed to the reality of completely informed rational and benevolent government elected by the same people?
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    We've had some recent bitcoin companies simply shutting down/running away while taking the customers' stored funds. Sure, they lost reputation - was that any help to the depositors? And from history of 'classic' banking we know very well that the 'lost reputation' doesn't work - we've tried that all over the world in the earlier times, it resulted in people creating new 'fresh clean reputation' companies one after another and sucessfully repeating such things over and over. Raising the barrier of entry is the whole point - if you're unable to meet your agreements, you should be kept far, far away from that business permanently.
tga 13y ago
For anyone considering using Coinbase or similar services where you have to pay via bank transfer -- think twice and take this as a serious warning that you have almost no protection if they screw you/up somehow. I have a problem with Coinbase for a much smaller sum (luckily): ordered at what I was convinced was a fixed price and just received less BTC at a much higher rate. Their customer support refuses to help (or even to cancel the transaction) and banks just don't get involved in direct transfers on your side, the way they would do on a credit card transaction. Short of going to the police and lamenting on forums (hello!), there is nothing you can do.
- rrrx3 13y ago
  Care to elaborate more? Specifics?
  - tga 13y ago
    There isn't any more to it. I disagreed with what I received, they said "we're so really deeply truly sorry but don't care, kthx for the money". Bank said "lol direct transfer". End of story.
    - ryanhuff 13y ago
      File a lawsuit. Small claims if its under the threshold.
- diogenescynic 13y ago
  Sounds like Coinbase is using arbitrage to capitalize on market swings.
- gaadd33 13y ago
  Why can't you file a small claims lawsuit? It should cost you about $50 and a few hours of your time.
  - sequoia 13y ago
    "a few hours" lol. Also, where? Summon whom to court? If I were coinbase I'd simply ignore such a suit.
deleted 13y ago
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barmstrong 13y ago
Brian from Coinbase here. Sorry for the delay on that - definitely not the customer experience we are striving for. We should have things squared away for you by end of day. Edit: your bitcoin credit has now been processed. It looks like as we were performing server upgrades last week a handful of jobs didn't run as normal. We should have certainly caught it and responded sooner so that was our fault. My deepest apologies for the delay and trouble on that. We've credited $50 worth of bitcoin to your account for the trouble, as a small way of saying thank you for bearing with us. Edit2: we'll push through the bitcoin credit at today's price instead of the original buy price (which should be in your favor) since the mistake was on our part. Sorry again for the trouble!
- onedev 13y ago
  Make sure you give him the new price.
  - quannabe 13y ago
    I don't think you quite understand how Coinbase works. Since most transactions are ACH (and reversible) they take ~5 days before the coins are available. This is disclosed up front, and again when you purchase bitcoins.
  - bct 13y ago
    quannabe: You have been hellbanned since your second comment.
- abijlani 13y ago
  I've had a terrible customer service experience with Coinbase too: http://amit.roon.io/an-open-letter-to-coinbase http://amit.roon.io/an-open-letter-to-coinbase
  - anoncowherd 13y ago
    Funny how whenever a company gets enough bad publicity to actually hurt their bottom line, suddenly their customer service runs a bit smoother.
seanalltogether 13y ago
HN is really getting overloaded with bitcoin noise the past couple weeks. Honestly this just doesn't feel like the right venue for advice and support about this stuff.
drcode 13y ago
HN is now a coinbase support forum? Why would you put that much money into a service that isn't a true bitcoin exchange? Do you realize they're an extra middleman that is likely to add more delays to any transaction? If you look at reddit.com/r/coinbase you'd know this sort of thing is a common occurrence with coinbase- Why are you surprised this is happening? Seems like they have a history of this sort of thing that should have warned you of the risks you were taking. Why give them your business if they're known to do this type of thing? If people keep supporting businesses that act in a manner they're not happy with then what is the incentive for anyone to create a better alternative?
- deleted 13y ago
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- justincormack 13y ago
  All HN posts are now about bitcoin, so yeah I guess its a support forum now. Its quite hilarious that people are prepared to throw that much money away, but hey.
GarrettBeck 13y ago
This is the same situation as Facebook's IPO with NASDAQ. Orders were placed $40, then cancelled, then filled at $40 six hours after the market closed (at which point Facebook was already trading below its IPO price). Unless you are a massive financial institution with some serious clout/legal department, I recommend you cut your losses and move on. Your time is much more valuable spent doing something else rather than the time you will spend trying to recover $X,XXX
- ajju 13y ago
  Not sure if this is sarcasm, but $35,000+ is a HUGE sum of money for even the decamillionaires I know.
  - ffrryuu 13y ago
    Not really, I can easily come up with 35k at the drop of a hat...
    - GarrettBeck 13y ago
      Wanna buy some bitcoin? ;-)
      - ffrryuu 13y ago
        I'd rather buy a car.
  - GarrettBeck 13y ago
    $35,000 is a huge sum of money. I'm suggesting he sell the 40 or so bitcoin he purchased immediately at market price (~$550), cut his loses and move on. By doing so he would limit the damage and would only lose ~$12,700. Bitcoin will continue to fall and he will continue to lose money. He won't get his money back from CoinBase and he is losing money every second he holds his bitcoin. Losing money sucks. It happens to everyone who invests, gambles or takes a risk. Take your medicine, learn for your mistakes and be better tomorrow.
baddox 13y ago
> Now the real dilemma for me here is the fact that while CoinBase.com has locked in a price for me, because they have failed to deliver I cannot sell my coins at any rate. Bitcoins could drop down to $200, and only then might they deliver the coins. It's scary that they can literally guarantee constant wins for themselves by choosing how long to delay the delivery of Bitcoins to customers.
- deleted 13y ago
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- msand0621 13y ago
  I don't think they're maliciously delaying the delivery of bitcoins. I just think they need to hire more customer support reps to deal with problems like these in a timely manner when they arise.
  - WoodenChair 13y ago
    Do you really believe these systems are so non-automated? Of course the price swings must have something to do with their delays!
    - bushido 13y ago
      Actually if there was a delay alone this would not really be illegal and could be forgiven. If you look at: http://i.imgur.com/R2qEn8E.png http://i.imgur.com/R2qEn8E.png They clearly quoted a transaction price for the BTC conversion. This price should be calculated as: => (rate at which the bitcoin have Already been purchased) + (costs incurred by coinbase) + (fees owed from client) The rate Can Not under any circumstance be quoted unless the transaction has already been executed. If the trade(s) were not executed, Coinbase broke laws that they are governed by regardless if bitcoin is regulated or not. If the trade(s) were executed, Coinbase still broke laws(albeit different ones) that they are governed by regardless if bitcoin is regulated or not.
  - bushido 13y ago
    Well malicious intent could easily be proven, even if unintentional, depending on a few questions. 1. Was there really a delay because price could have slipped below what they quoted and they were hoping for a better rate before executing? If so, they committed an act of bucketing. 2. Next, if they tried executing a trade was it a limit order or a market order? It should always be a market order unless the client requests otherwise by specifying maximum entry price etc. Its still under the purview of bucketing. 3. Did they execute the transaction (or transactions in case of a fills on a market order) and fail to deliver due to a technical or human error? If yes, this could be classified under kiting and bucketing. Also they should have never quoted a rate unless the transaction took place, as this in itself means that the trade has been executed. 4. Did they segregate the funds until the transaction was complete or did they pool it with other funds that may have been used for other transactions (trades and withdrawals)? If they were not left untouched and were not segregated this would construe as kiting if only used for trades. Worst case it would be classified as a Ponzi-like operation. Its quite easy to ensure that these illegal situations do not arise, it usually happens to good people with good intentions who have a lapse of judgement or loose control of their emotions and subsequently have a loss of common sense. edit: formatting
bsiddiqui 13y ago
Coinbase customer service sucks - I rarely get a response, given I've never been this screwed over
wil421 13y ago
How could you get that amount of money back to dollars, if lets say the price doubled and you wanted to sell? Like back in my bank account dollars.
kolev 13y ago
I've had poor experiences with Coinbase as well, hit major bugs, which cost me hundreds. The only reason people use them is that they are the only choice at the moment. Can't wait for more alternatives such as Circle to launch! In cases like this , regulation and compliance don't sound like something negative!
- cromulent 13y ago
  > The only reason people use them is that they are the only choice at the moment Has anyone tried Kraken.com ? Registered there, but no transactions yet. Serious question.
  - kolev 13y ago
    Kraken is just an exchange. You can deposit/withdraw USD if you live in the States. The only two other options are CampBX and LocalBitcoins.com, but neither has the ease of Coinbase.
  - mrud 13y ago
    Yes, I personally like them. I don't have much money with them but it works. The only minor problems are the verification time and the API rate-limits. They don't publish the rate-limits. :/
buss 13y ago
They've had some problems recently. I'm now at day 12 waiting for an "instant buy" to clear. The ACH transfer cleared over a week ago but I still don't have my coins. (Support #67989 for anybody at coinbase) It's weird, I performed several small buys in a row just in case this exact thing happened. I got 5/6 purchases but this one is stuck in some weird state. I really like coinbase; they're just having some trouble handling the huge increase in volume recently.
- buss 13y ago
  And all it took was a single comment on HN to get it resolved. Thanks!
  - alttab 13y ago
    You are really thanking them for that?
chollida1 13y ago
Here is the problem with coinbases tactics. Consider buying $1,000 worth of bitcoins... Coinbase can tell you your price. Coinbase can then just wait, and wait and wait, weeks on end for the price to dip down. They can then buy the coins at the lower price and deliver them to you voila, they profit from you. This is very dubious. If the price goes up they then buy at your price + some percent of their commission so they don't lose money, either way.
- infinitone 13y ago
  Yeah but what if you decide to withdraw while they are waiting for the price to dip?
  - sequoia 13y ago
    You can't because your coins aren't "available." I've only used coinbase once and haven't done more than buy btc, but it did take several days for the coins to become available (presumably for bank transfer to clear), during which time the price dropped by about $100/btc. I'm not mad about this- it was clear at time of purchase that I'd have to wait for transaction to clear, but >3 days would have upset me.
sard420 13y ago
I'll say this again about coinbase, I'm convinced they are playing the market on peoples investment. I bought when bitcoin was starting to rocket, they tied my money up for weeks, bitcoin doubles in that time. Then after that I get a sorry letter and my money back. What was my money doing in that time? Probably making them money.
- powertower 13y ago
  Something tells me if the price went the other way (in coinbase's favor), the situation would have not ended with refunded money.
margaux 13y ago
Not to shamelessly self promote, but the best way to buy/sell large amounts of BTC is directly, without going through an exchange/retail site. It is faster, cheaper and definitely a better customer experience. I've worked at two bitcoin exchanges so I know from experience. Now I am arranging private deals between a buyer and a seller. Here is the plug now though www.BitcoinCapitalPartners.com
- ciupicri 13y ago
  How can I be sure that the other person won't run away with my money?
  - margaux 13y ago
    I use a btc escrow for non trusted sellers
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
This was posted to imgur a few hours ago. I have no idea of its authenticity, but hopefully they're just really busy, and will do the right things. Good luck. "Coinbase being a bro - saved me $400" http://imgur.com/r/Bitcoin/E52ILfD http://imgur.com/r/Bitcoin/E52ILfD
keeran 13y ago
If you search for 'coinbase' on https://bitcointalk.org/ https://bitcointalk.org/ you get a sea of people complaining about the same or similar issues - stay well clear.
rjbwork 13y ago
Hey, do you know your website has been hacked?
WoodenChair 13y ago
Apparently mgrunin's website was also hacked. Not his week.
sergiotapia 13y ago
His website is hacked by some terrorists: http://www.winningportfolio.com/ http://www.winningportfolio.com/
deleted 13y ago
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diegoarmando 13y ago
mgrunin, you must be retarded. spend actual money for toy coins.
C1D 13y ago
I get you're angry about the bad customer service but dude, you need to get off your high horse and realise you're not that special. I don't know who you are and don't care and googling you name doesn't come up with anything special. Get over your self, unless you're a real celebrity no one will care, even if your story made it on to tv (which I highly doubt).
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  Why do you have to be special to get customer service?
  - shortstuffsushi 13y ago
    I wouldn't say you need to be special to receive it, but resorting to threatening to expose them to the media seems desperate and childish.
bachback 13y ago
If you have serious money to transfer into BTC, this is not the way to go. Coinbase essentially is an intermediary, not a wallet. The whole point of Bitcoin is to get of intermediaries as are inefficient and make profits along the way. Bitcoin will solve this, it will just a take a couple of years. Btw, online-wallets neglect the working of the algorithm at some point. The system depends at the moment depends that people know what they are doing.
bsiddiqui 13y ago
What're your non-Coinbase platforms for purchasing coins?
iblaine 13y ago
The guy who bought these coins is a douche. The fact is bitcoins are highly unstable and he bought them when the price was high(for this week). It is doubtful he would have had the sense to sell them before todays drop. If he really believes that bitcoins are a good investment, which I do, then he should have faith that they will rise in value over time(months, years). It's speculators like this that buy in when the price is high then immediately complain about the volatility that give bitcoins a bad name.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  > It is doubtful he would have had the sense to sell them before todays drop. Based on... what?
  - iblaine 13y ago
    My spidey sense. Plus he bought in at $950 for $25k. Either he's rich or a gambler.
    - alttab 13y ago
      Or at least, temporarily one or the other.
sifarat 13y ago
Now take my sincere advise, take a trip to Hawaii for couple of weeks. don't sell them fast. Once you are back, you will either have another trip, or just cash out successfully. end. As for coinbase, Well played Sir, this comes from a broker but in a different field. every fucking pun intended.
miguelrochefort 13y ago
> Further avoidance by them will lead me to make a few calls to news stations. I have the right contacts to easily put myself in the media. Cringe.
logjam 13y ago
So wonderful to watch this little drama (complete with breathless appeals to get the news media involved) play out today on HN, which appears to have become "Bitcoin News". A match made in heaven, between this genius financial entrepreneur and this competent, reliable trading platform, seems to at least sum up Bitcoin nicely, if not the brainless economic philosophies underlying this horseshit.
- huangc10 13y ago
  I was thinking the exact same thing. Plot twist? "There is no such thing as bad publicity"
- ceol 13y ago
  > HN, which appears to have become "Bitcoin News". Seriously, what's up with this? There are at least two Bitcoin articles on the front page every day. I had no idea Coinbase was funded by YC, though. I wonder if there's any correlation.
- mgrunin 13y ago
  For a split second your comment began to irritate me, until I finished the whole comment. At that point, your comment came off so eloquent written that I couldn't remain mad. Bravo.
camus2 13y ago
Can we say coinbase is basically shorting bitcoin with its customer's money ? (it's a question.)
scrame 13y ago
I bought 1 a few weeks ago. I got a notice last week that they rejected it and would be returning my money. They have still not returned my money, and their customer service emails just return an automated "we are looking into it", with no follow-up. It seems like they take orders as long as they make money (a friend ordering the day before took a loss and they accepted his payment no problem). Looking around their forums, the arbitrary rejections seem very common and make the company seem quite scammy.
frodopwns 13y ago
My first purchase with Coinbase took 7 full business days (not far off from what you waited). Other than that my experience with Coinbase has been 100% positive...extremely fast and reliable service.
yeahwhateverbro 13y ago
So Coinbase put me in a similar situation but they haven't bothered to respond to any of my emails thus far. Is this where I contact Coinbase customer support?
- midas007 13y ago
  founders@coinbase.com :)
deutronium 13y ago
Wow, what a disgraceful way to treat people. Certainly a company to steer clear of then.
adizam 13y ago
Well now I know not to use coinbase :)
mgrunin 13y ago
The situation has been appropriately resolved by CoinBase. I would like to thank Brian for making this right. It is unfortunate that this situation had to be dealt with in the public light, but this was my last resource before contacting lawyers. I will answer other comments later tonight. Thank you HackerNews. - Martin
ziyan 13y ago
You are lucky that someone actually responded to your support ticket/email. Most of us never heard a thing from them.
ziyanjoe 13y ago
You are lucky that someone actually responded to your support ticket/email. Most of us never heard a thing from them.
yarou 13y ago
This is why I can't take Bitcoin seriously. It's a liquidity depth issue. Much like HFT, there is a _perception_ that the order book has depth. But there's no guarantee that you'll get execution at the price displayed. At least market makers in the past were forced to execute up to a certain amount by regulation. No such regulation exists here.
thinkcomp 13y ago
The official way to file a complaint is with the California Department of Business Oversight, and the form is here: http://www.dbo.ca.gov/forms/tma/Form2120_English-Spanish.pdf http://www.dbo.ca.gov/forms/tma/Form2120_English-Spanish.pdf
thaifighter 13y ago
Crap. I was looking at Coinbase. Has this happened to others?
yeukhon 13y ago
Leaking the last four digit of your bank account can be dangerous. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44231957/#.UrKovi95F7M http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44231957/#.UrKovi95F7M Though old news god wonders what other services still do this. We know your name is Martian and if we spend enough time we might be able to identity your true identity and possible to start trying things. If you want to hide your identity, you probably should just use something more distinct. Just saying.
cehlen 13y ago
Question for mgrunin. In your opinion did CoinBase make things right? If not, why? If so then can well just drop this!
issdispatch 13y ago
I am really confused and frustrated. I sent my first ever BUY through Coinbase. I got my checking all set up. Made my purchase on 12-16-2013(an earth shattering .12 coins $100 bucks) No biggie. On 12-17-2013 the US funds left my bank account and off to coinbase. Alas... All I need to do is wait now until the 20th to spend my now 30 dollar loss due to market. Well here it is. The 20th of December somewhere in the world so I go to look at my account and there are no coins. Further inspection of this I find my transaction was canceled. No explanation. Just a big red canceled. Wheres my money now? I really want to be an advocate and intend to move WAY more than $100.00 into the bitcoin market place but seriously? Just a hundred dollar transaction that made one of their customers slightly irritated? Im glad I DIDN'T trust them with serious cash like the originator of this post! Come on... GUYS! Don't take the fun out of all this! Figure it out! (Because if its not fun... It certainly wont be VIABLE!)
tyang 13y ago
Bitcoin amateur hour continues.
coinhoarder 13y ago
I'm in the same exact situation, except for the amount of BTC (I purchased 10BTC). The ACH was cleared on Friday Dec 11th and the message read "Your bitcoin will arrive by the end of day on Friday Dec 13, 2013.". The actual coins didn't show up until mid-day Dec 18th, 5 days later and $400 below the Friday's levels. Can I have my purchase price adjusted as well? Or Coinbase have some sort of a preferential treatment program? My Case # is 73898.
wintermute2013 13y ago
mgrunin isn't alone. I have been having severe issues with Coinbase recently. Attempted to sell a small amount (less than 1) Bitcoin, and it has been nearly a month now -- no money in my bank. According to their own customer support representative, the transaction should take 2-7 business days. It has been more than double that. I've inquired again as to what the heck is going on, but I'm still waiting for a response. Unless they can get their act together and complete the transaction soon, I don't know if I'd trust Coinbase with my money.

658 points by mgrunin 13y ago

wavefunction 13y ago

Speculation is a risky endeavor.

dragonwriter 13y ago
Yes, but the usual significant expected risk is in the market value of the speculative commodity, not whether or not the broker ever bothers to execute your order.
arun_bansal 13y ago
Its one thing to speculate on price of BTC, its another to worry about whether your exchange will hold up.
meowface 13y ago
The problem isn't speculation, but rather that he paid money and was informed he would receive the coins on a certain date, but did not receive them then. The "price lock in" is perfectly valid so long as they inform the buyer the length of the processing period. If they give false information about that, though, it's the vendor's fault, not the buyer's.

mek 13y ago

LOL

zt 13y ago

ACH transactions are reversible FWIW.

mgrunin 13y ago
Yes, I am aware of that. I told them in my last email that I will be reversing my ACH if they continue to ignore me.
- jhardcastle 13y ago
  Reverse now. You have plenty of proof. There's no need to take a bath on this.
- dusing 13y ago
  you should just get it reversed as soon as possible. Combined with the fall of BTC you are lucky to have a "out". Also once you threaten the reversal there isn't much reason for them to work with you. What if they give you BTC tomorrow and you reversed the ACH already.
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Second this. Get your money back, live to fight another day. Why ask for delivery and suffer a loss?
- state 13y ago
  Could you talk about why you don't want to reverse it?
- bushido 13y ago
  Actually having this option is really good and you should use it, as there could be a likelihood of "legitimate" BTC services facing bank runs in the current panic. Of course, you could be contributing in a bank run, though that's not your concern.
- kayoone 13y ago
  You are aware that the BTC value just dropped dramatically right? Why dont you reverse if thats possible?

justinzollars 13y ago

ouch

_nato_ 13y ago

Yikes! I really hope this gets resolved for you!

Moral_ 13y ago

I feel bad for you, honestly. But serious question as well: Would you have went public with this if the price hadn't fallen dramatically? Perhaps if it went back up to $1500 a coin would things be different? Either way I hope things get resolved for you.

mgrunin 13y ago
Course not. But all I am asking for them is that they had delivered the coins on the day they said they would. If BTC went up, I would have had no advantage of them crediting me the coins on the day it was actually due or today.
- Moral_ 13y ago
  Understandable, thanks for your response.
bushido 13y ago
Actually he probably still should have (and perhaps would have) taken this public, as they have failed to deliver the instrument in a timely manner and the OP could have bought and sold bitcoin taking advantage of price movements. This is a clear case of "bucketing"[0] whether done intentionally or not. Its illegal regardless if it seemingly "worked out". [0] http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bucketing.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bucketing.asp
makomk 13y ago
If the price went back up to $1500 a coin, Coinbase would cancel his transaction whether he wanted them to or not despite the supposed price lockin (and return his dollars in their own sweet time). Their usual justification is "excessive risk".
- Istof 13y ago
  They also have an history of halting Bitcoin sales when it's value drops too much.

tylerlh 13y ago

FWIW, I made a small transaction with Coinbase not long ago and while they "guaranteed" the coins would be in my account by a certain date, they didn't actually deposit them until 2-3 days after that. Struck me as pretty odd. Hope your situation gets settled quickly.

AH4oFVbPT4f8 13y ago

Did you have prior experience with CoinBase and buying bitcoins from them? If not, why didn't you start with 1k to make sure the transaction went smoothly before sending over 35k?

mgrunin 13y ago
I have purchased from them before, to a tune of $18k over several different transactions.

arun_bansal 13y ago

Since it has taken this long, I guess you would rather have the lock price removed. It's around ~551.57 vs your original 868.91

mgrunin 13y ago
Yes, and that is only because they didn't deliver the coins on the day they locked in the price even though they said they would deliver then.
- arun_bansal 13y ago
  I too had a sour experience with them, took more than 7 days to transfer coins after transfer took place.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- alttab 13y ago
  Coinbase will close their doors forever before honoring price lock removal. You took a risk, one that is a lot harder to read than the Fed-drunk stock market. From what I can gather coinbase makes their money by throwing away or backing out transactions they would take a loss on. You sir, gave them $35k for digital beanie babies. You get what you pay for. And you did. Why aren't you buying btc at an exchange? Were you planning on moving them?

justin66 13y ago

> Further avoidance by them will lead me to make a few calls to news stations. Eek. The best case scenario is that you'll get a news blurb on local TV where you're portrayed as a sucker. "Weird online currency thing does weird stuff in the way you'd expect weird online currency thing to do, and look at this greedy rube who got sucked in and lost it all! Film at 11."

jamesaguilar 13y ago
That might be a probable scenario, but it's certainly not the best case.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  ActualLOL at that correction.
seobeaver 13y ago
Clearly you don't know who mGrunin is. I'd do a little research before making comments like the one above.
- nawitus 13y ago
  Well, maybe you could post a two-sentence summary and save us all the trouble?
  - oijaf888 13y ago
    He seems to be some affiliate marketer who also peddles get rich quick via trading options products.
    - mgrunin 13y ago
      If you actually spent a minute watching any of my trading videos you would see that I never pitch a single product or service in them. What I offered in my videos was complete transparency on my trading.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

melling 13y ago

Those guys in finance don't make or sell anything. They're just greedy. Too many of the smartest people go into it just to make money... Me on the other hand, I'm gonna make a difference. Where can I get me some of those Bitcoins!?

agib 13y ago

I also have some very strange behavior going on in my account: https://twitter.com/agibralter/status/411685377015947264 https://twitter.com/agibralter/status/411685377015947264 Basically they're showing a transaction of selling BTC that I never made or authorized. Also, it's showing up in my transaction list but not in my history... They said they're looking into it, but I haven't heard back in days.

agib 13y ago
Update: I just logged in and saw the coins returned to me as a new, separate transaction. Very strange. Still no word from customer service.
VMG 13y ago
check if you got an API key and disable it - there were a few posts on reddit about this
bfell 13y ago
Same thing happened to me except for the bitcoin magically reappearing. Since this is now Coinbase's unofficial support forum - issue 52050 - 4 weeks and counting....

jbverschoor 13y ago

Tbh... I would still reverse it. I refuse to do business anymore with companies that do not respond.

sheetjs 13y ago

From their terms of service: > Coinbase does not guarantee the value of bitcoin. You acknowledge that the price or value of bitcoin can change rapidly, decrease, and potentially even fall to zero. You acknowledge that holding bitcoin is high risk. You agree to deliver the agreed upon payment for bitcoin upon confirmation of an order, regardless of changes in bitcoin value. > Coinbase will make reasonable efforts to ensure that requests for electronic debits and credits involving bank accounts, credit cards, and check issuances are processed in a timely manner but Coinbase makes no representations or warranties regarding the amount of time needed to complete processing because Coinbase services are dependent upon many factors outside of our control, such as delays in the banking system or the U.S. or international mail service. It's possible that Coinbase is experiencing delays, and their terms of service give them a clear escape path. It sucks that they are holding onto your money, but consider this a learning experience: always start small, make sure everything smells right, and then scale up. If they were holding onto 35.10 rather than 35.10K, I suspect you would react differently

moocowduckquack 13y ago
If they were holding onto 35.10 rather than 35.10K, I suspect you would react differently The courts tend to as well.
- bushido 13y ago
  Actually you'd be wrong in this case as it is an illegal practice ("bucketing") whether due to a technical error, human error or malicious intent. The settlement amount may defer for the plaintiff, but the as it would be considered as/or similar to securities fraud the repercussions for the company could be dire.
  - oijaf888 13y ago
    What is "bucketing"? Isn't this a simple case of goods paid for but not received? This is the same as if I buy 100 gallons of fuel oil for $5 and they don't deliver it.

heavymark 13y ago

I'd go straight to anyone and anyone who will listen. Companies don't escalate until they need to. HackerNews is big for us technies but you need to blow up their twitter,facebook, retweets daily as every day your going to lose value as bitcoin continues to drop with the news about china.

7Figures2Commas 13y ago

Welcome to counterparty risk, Bitcoin style.

codegeek 13y ago
shouldn't it be more like Market Risk ?
- 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
  In this case, the counterparty to the transaction appears unable to meet its obligations, at least according to the OP. That's counterparty risk.
  - codegeek 13y ago
    But the ACH is completely reversible. So not really a risk specially considering that price has fallen :).
    - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
      There are rules that govern ACH reversals. My understanding is that reversals are permitted in cases where the amount transferred was incorrect or the transfer was not authorized. As another poster on this thread noted, Coinbase's terms of service appears to give them great flexibility in processing transactions. The OP, on the other hand, seems to have the understanding that Coinbase was obligated to complete his transaction within a very specific period of time. This is a dispute between two parties to a transaction. One is arguing that his counterparty failed to meet its obligations; it appears the other has the ability to argue that under its terms of service those supposed obligations never existed. Given the amount of money involved, either party might be motivated to resolve this matter through legal action. Again, this is all an inherent part of the wonderful world of counterparty risk.
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      ACH is not completely reversible - it's reversible in certain cases depending on the legal reasons for the reversal. IANAL, but I believe that simply having a dispute with the other party is not valid grounds - you authorised the payment, it went to the intended beneficiary, so if they don't / can't pay you back, it's your loss.

ffrryuu 13y ago

I got some Tulips you can buy to make up your loss on.

mek 13y ago

Thanks for the heads up! I just registered with them and I was adding my bank details to enable instant-buy and snap some BTC tonight when they drop below 5 USD! :)

kjackson2012 13y ago

Do an ACH chargeback as quickly as possible, don't be an idiot and wait for a response, otherwise you may miss your opportunity to walk away without losing $10k.

nathas 13y ago

I hate to be that guy, but Coinbase is pretty clear that you'll get your coins _eventually_. If I were doing thousands in transfers, I'd absolutely be using an exchange. They're also a small start up, funding or not. Their support team has always come through and usually eats the cost difference if it was a bump on their end. I'd just wait it out.

PeterisP 13y ago
Getting your funds 'eventually' is not reasonable nor acceptable for financial deals. A stock/foreign currency/whatever to-be-settled on 16th december is one item, the same stock to-be-settled on 17th december is a completely different item - it certainly has a different price, and there are a bunch of valid finance situations when you don't need the purchase at all if it's delayed; you just need the money back + compensation for the breach of agreement. There's a term for when a financial institution is unable to settle deals on the agreed day and needs to postpone - it's called insolvency. Such repeated situations are quite valid reasons to require them to cease operating and liquidate all assets in order to pay out their debts.
d23 13y ago
Can you explain the difference between Coinbase and an exchange? I'm afraid now that an order I put in could be futzed up.
- nathas 13y ago
  Sure. Coinbase, as far as I know, sources its coins from the exchanges (Mt Gox, Bitstamp, btc-e, etc). I could be wrong about this. Coinbase acts as a nice middleman where you can securely link your bank account, and for this convenience Coinbase charges you a higher fee than the exchanges. They procure your coins, handle the financial leg work, and suddenly you have access to bitcoins. I wouldn't worry about it. I've used both quite a bit. It was a huge pain in the ass to gain access to Mt Gox. Coinbase is just better imo. The support team always comes through for any problems.
deleted 13y ago
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PeterisP 13y ago

To all of you who say that Bitcoin shouldn't be regulated - this is what it results in. If it was any regulated financial deal - say, purchase of stock or Yen - then there are clear rules on how to handle that, namely, you'd be entitled to at least compensation for any decrease between the 'locked' price at the agreed settlement date and the real settlement, whenever it may happen, and the interest for the period. Repeated such situations would result in a rapid audit to verify if they really have enough assets to pay out all their debts, and if not, shut them down immediately. Now you're quite screwed, while coinbase has taken a profit on this (and probably other) deals by delaying these settlements. And what are you going to do if you don't get all the losses covered? Your options are quite limited.

jonpaul 13y ago
No way. Regulation won't solve these sort of things. It will just make the barrier to entry that much higher. Now people have a voice more so than ever before. If companies don't act appropriately, people can post stories and complaints online. The companies reputation will then suffer. This is exactly what's happening here.
- chasing 13y ago
  Ah, the libertarian fantasy of the completely informed and rational public, always willing and able to promote the good guys and eradicate the bad guys...
  - VMG 13y ago
    as opposed to the reality of completely informed rational and benevolent government elected by the same people?
- PeterisP 13y ago
  We've had some recent bitcoin companies simply shutting down/running away while taking the customers' stored funds. Sure, they lost reputation - was that any help to the depositors? And from history of 'classic' banking we know very well that the 'lost reputation' doesn't work - we've tried that all over the world in the earlier times, it resulted in people creating new 'fresh clean reputation' companies one after another and sucessfully repeating such things over and over. Raising the barrier of entry is the whole point - if you're unable to meet your agreements, you should be kept far, far away from that business permanently.

tga 13y ago

For anyone considering using Coinbase or similar services where you have to pay via bank transfer -- think twice and take this as a serious warning that you have almost no protection if they screw you/up somehow. I have a problem with Coinbase for a much smaller sum (luckily): ordered at what I was convinced was a fixed price and just received less BTC at a much higher rate. Their customer support refuses to help (or even to cancel the transaction) and banks just don't get involved in direct transfers on your side, the way they would do on a credit card transaction. Short of going to the police and lamenting on forums (hello!), there is nothing you can do.

rrrx3 13y ago
Care to elaborate more? Specifics?
- tga 13y ago
  There isn't any more to it. I disagreed with what I received, they said "we're so really deeply truly sorry but don't care, kthx for the money". Bank said "lol direct transfer". End of story.
  - ryanhuff 13y ago
    File a lawsuit. Small claims if its under the threshold.
diogenescynic 13y ago
Sounds like Coinbase is using arbitrage to capitalize on market swings.
gaadd33 13y ago
Why can't you file a small claims lawsuit? It should cost you about $50 and a few hours of your time.
- sequoia 13y ago
  "a few hours" lol. Also, where? Summon whom to court? If I were coinbase I'd simply ignore such a suit.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

barmstrong 13y ago

Brian from Coinbase here. Sorry for the delay on that - definitely not the customer experience we are striving for. We should have things squared away for you by end of day. Edit: your bitcoin credit has now been processed. It looks like as we were performing server upgrades last week a handful of jobs didn't run as normal. We should have certainly caught it and responded sooner so that was our fault. My deepest apologies for the delay and trouble on that. We've credited $50 worth of bitcoin to your account for the trouble, as a small way of saying thank you for bearing with us. Edit2: we'll push through the bitcoin credit at today's price instead of the original buy price (which should be in your favor) since the mistake was on our part. Sorry again for the trouble!

onedev 13y ago
Make sure you give him the new price.
- quannabe 13y ago
  I don't think you quite understand how Coinbase works. Since most transactions are ACH (and reversible) they take ~5 days before the coins are available. This is disclosed up front, and again when you purchase bitcoins.
- bct 13y ago
  quannabe: You have been hellbanned since your second comment.
abijlani 13y ago
I've had a terrible customer service experience with Coinbase too: http://amit.roon.io/an-open-letter-to-coinbase http://amit.roon.io/an-open-letter-to-coinbase
- anoncowherd 13y ago
  Funny how whenever a company gets enough bad publicity to actually hurt their bottom line, suddenly their customer service runs a bit smoother.

seanalltogether 13y ago

HN is really getting overloaded with bitcoin noise the past couple weeks. Honestly this just doesn't feel like the right venue for advice and support about this stuff.

drcode 13y ago

HN is now a coinbase support forum? Why would you put that much money into a service that isn't a true bitcoin exchange? Do you realize they're an extra middleman that is likely to add more delays to any transaction? If you look at reddit.com/r/coinbase you'd know this sort of thing is a common occurrence with coinbase- Why are you surprised this is happening? Seems like they have a history of this sort of thing that should have warned you of the risks you were taking. Why give them your business if they're known to do this type of thing? If people keep supporting businesses that act in a manner they're not happy with then what is the incentive for anyone to create a better alternative?

deleted 13y ago
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justincormack 13y ago
All HN posts are now about bitcoin, so yeah I guess its a support forum now. Its quite hilarious that people are prepared to throw that much money away, but hey.

GarrettBeck 13y ago

This is the same situation as Facebook's IPO with NASDAQ. Orders were placed $40, then cancelled, then filled at $40 six hours after the market closed (at which point Facebook was already trading below its IPO price). Unless you are a massive financial institution with some serious clout/legal department, I recommend you cut your losses and move on. Your time is much more valuable spent doing something else rather than the time you will spend trying to recover $X,XXX

ajju 13y ago
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but $35,000+ is a HUGE sum of money for even the decamillionaires I know.
- ffrryuu 13y ago
  Not really, I can easily come up with 35k at the drop of a hat...
  - GarrettBeck 13y ago
    Wanna buy some bitcoin? ;-)
    - ffrryuu 13y ago
      I'd rather buy a car.
- GarrettBeck 13y ago
  $35,000 is a huge sum of money. I'm suggesting he sell the 40 or so bitcoin he purchased immediately at market price (~$550), cut his loses and move on. By doing so he would limit the damage and would only lose ~$12,700. Bitcoin will continue to fall and he will continue to lose money. He won't get his money back from CoinBase and he is losing money every second he holds his bitcoin. Losing money sucks. It happens to everyone who invests, gambles or takes a risk. Take your medicine, learn for your mistakes and be better tomorrow.

baddox 13y ago

> Now the real dilemma for me here is the fact that while CoinBase.com has locked in a price for me, because they have failed to deliver I cannot sell my coins at any rate. Bitcoins could drop down to $200, and only then might they deliver the coins. It's scary that they can literally guarantee constant wins for themselves by choosing how long to delay the delivery of Bitcoins to customers.

deleted 13y ago
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msand0621 13y ago
I don't think they're maliciously delaying the delivery of bitcoins. I just think they need to hire more customer support reps to deal with problems like these in a timely manner when they arise.
- WoodenChair 13y ago
  Do you really believe these systems are so non-automated? Of course the price swings must have something to do with their delays!
  - bushido 13y ago
    Actually if there was a delay alone this would not really be illegal and could be forgiven. If you look at: http://i.imgur.com/R2qEn8E.png http://i.imgur.com/R2qEn8E.png They clearly quoted a transaction price for the BTC conversion. This price should be calculated as: => (rate at which the bitcoin have Already been purchased) + (costs incurred by coinbase) + (fees owed from client) The rate Can Not under any circumstance be quoted unless the transaction has already been executed. If the trade(s) were not executed, Coinbase broke laws that they are governed by regardless if bitcoin is regulated or not. If the trade(s) were executed, Coinbase still broke laws(albeit different ones) that they are governed by regardless if bitcoin is regulated or not.
- bushido 13y ago
  Well malicious intent could easily be proven, even if unintentional, depending on a few questions. 1. Was there really a delay because price could have slipped below what they quoted and they were hoping for a better rate before executing? If so, they committed an act of bucketing. 2. Next, if they tried executing a trade was it a limit order or a market order? It should always be a market order unless the client requests otherwise by specifying maximum entry price etc. Its still under the purview of bucketing. 3. Did they execute the transaction (or transactions in case of a fills on a market order) and fail to deliver due to a technical or human error? If yes, this could be classified under kiting and bucketing. Also they should have never quoted a rate unless the transaction took place, as this in itself means that the trade has been executed. 4. Did they segregate the funds until the transaction was complete or did they pool it with other funds that may have been used for other transactions (trades and withdrawals)? If they were not left untouched and were not segregated this would construe as kiting if only used for trades. Worst case it would be classified as a Ponzi-like operation. Its quite easy to ensure that these illegal situations do not arise, it usually happens to good people with good intentions who have a lapse of judgement or loose control of their emotions and subsequently have a loss of common sense. edit: formatting

bsiddiqui 13y ago

Coinbase customer service sucks - I rarely get a response, given I've never been this screwed over

wil421 13y ago

How could you get that amount of money back to dollars, if lets say the price doubled and you wanted to sell? Like back in my bank account dollars.

kolev 13y ago

I've had poor experiences with Coinbase as well, hit major bugs, which cost me hundreds. The only reason people use them is that they are the only choice at the moment. Can't wait for more alternatives such as Circle to launch! In cases like this , regulation and compliance don't sound like something negative!

cromulent 13y ago
> The only reason people use them is that they are the only choice at the moment Has anyone tried Kraken.com ? Registered there, but no transactions yet. Serious question.
- kolev 13y ago
  Kraken is just an exchange. You can deposit/withdraw USD if you live in the States. The only two other options are CampBX and LocalBitcoins.com, but neither has the ease of Coinbase.
- mrud 13y ago
  Yes, I personally like them. I don't have much money with them but it works. The only minor problems are the verification time and the API rate-limits. They don't publish the rate-limits. :/

buss 13y ago

They've had some problems recently. I'm now at day 12 waiting for an "instant buy" to clear. The ACH transfer cleared over a week ago but I still don't have my coins. (Support #67989 for anybody at coinbase) It's weird, I performed several small buys in a row just in case this exact thing happened. I got 5/6 purchases but this one is stuck in some weird state. I really like coinbase; they're just having some trouble handling the huge increase in volume recently.

buss 13y ago
And all it took was a single comment on HN to get it resolved. Thanks!
- alttab 13y ago
  You are really thanking them for that?

chollida1 13y ago

Here is the problem with coinbases tactics. Consider buying $1,000 worth of bitcoins... Coinbase can tell you your price. Coinbase can then just wait, and wait and wait, weeks on end for the price to dip down. They can then buy the coins at the lower price and deliver them to you voila, they profit from you. This is very dubious. If the price goes up they then buy at your price + some percent of their commission so they don't lose money, either way.

infinitone 13y ago
Yeah but what if you decide to withdraw while they are waiting for the price to dip?
- sequoia 13y ago
  You can't because your coins aren't "available." I've only used coinbase once and haven't done more than buy btc, but it did take several days for the coins to become available (presumably for bank transfer to clear), during which time the price dropped by about $100/btc. I'm not mad about this- it was clear at time of purchase that I'd have to wait for transaction to clear, but >3 days would have upset me.

sard420 13y ago

I'll say this again about coinbase, I'm convinced they are playing the market on peoples investment. I bought when bitcoin was starting to rocket, they tied my money up for weeks, bitcoin doubles in that time. Then after that I get a sorry letter and my money back. What was my money doing in that time? Probably making them money.

powertower 13y ago
Something tells me if the price went the other way (in coinbase's favor), the situation would have not ended with refunded money.

margaux 13y ago

Not to shamelessly self promote, but the best way to buy/sell large amounts of BTC is directly, without going through an exchange/retail site. It is faster, cheaper and definitely a better customer experience. I've worked at two bitcoin exchanges so I know from experience. Now I am arranging private deals between a buyer and a seller. Here is the plug now though www.BitcoinCapitalPartners.com

ciupicri 13y ago
How can I be sure that the other person won't run away with my money?
- margaux 13y ago
  I use a btc escrow for non trusted sellers

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

This was posted to imgur a few hours ago. I have no idea of its authenticity, but hopefully they're just really busy, and will do the right things. Good luck. "Coinbase being a bro - saved me $400" http://imgur.com/r/Bitcoin/E52ILfD http://imgur.com/r/Bitcoin/E52ILfD

keeran 13y ago

If you search for 'coinbase' on https://bitcointalk.org/ https://bitcointalk.org/ you get a sea of people complaining about the same or similar issues - stay well clear.

rjbwork 13y ago

Hey, do you know your website has been hacked?

WoodenChair 13y ago

Apparently mgrunin's website was also hacked. Not his week.

sergiotapia 13y ago

His website is hacked by some terrorists: http://www.winningportfolio.com/ http://www.winningportfolio.com/

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

diegoarmando 13y ago

mgrunin, you must be retarded. spend actual money for toy coins.

C1D 13y ago

I get you're angry about the bad customer service but dude, you need to get off your high horse and realise you're not that special. I don't know who you are and don't care and googling you name doesn't come up with anything special. Get over your self, unless you're a real celebrity no one will care, even if your story made it on to tv (which I highly doubt).

ceejayoz 13y ago
Why do you have to be special to get customer service?
- shortstuffsushi 13y ago
  I wouldn't say you need to be special to receive it, but resorting to threatening to expose them to the media seems desperate and childish.

bachback 13y ago

If you have serious money to transfer into BTC, this is not the way to go. Coinbase essentially is an intermediary, not a wallet. The whole point of Bitcoin is to get of intermediaries as are inefficient and make profits along the way. Bitcoin will solve this, it will just a take a couple of years. Btw, online-wallets neglect the working of the algorithm at some point. The system depends at the moment depends that people know what they are doing.

bsiddiqui 13y ago

What're your non-Coinbase platforms for purchasing coins?

iblaine 13y ago

The guy who bought these coins is a douche. The fact is bitcoins are highly unstable and he bought them when the price was high(for this week). It is doubtful he would have had the sense to sell them before todays drop. If he really believes that bitcoins are a good investment, which I do, then he should have faith that they will rise in value over time(months, years). It's speculators like this that buy in when the price is high then immediately complain about the volatility that give bitcoins a bad name.

ceejayoz 13y ago
> It is doubtful he would have had the sense to sell them before todays drop. Based on... what?
- iblaine 13y ago
  My spidey sense. Plus he bought in at $950 for $25k. Either he's rich or a gambler.
  - alttab 13y ago
    Or at least, temporarily one or the other.

sifarat 13y ago

Now take my sincere advise, take a trip to Hawaii for couple of weeks. don't sell them fast. Once you are back, you will either have another trip, or just cash out successfully. end. As for coinbase, Well played Sir, this comes from a broker but in a different field. every fucking pun intended.

miguelrochefort 13y ago

> Further avoidance by them will lead me to make a few calls to news stations. I have the right contacts to easily put myself in the media. Cringe.

logjam 13y ago

So wonderful to watch this little drama (complete with breathless appeals to get the news media involved) play out today on HN, which appears to have become "Bitcoin News". A match made in heaven, between this genius financial entrepreneur and this competent, reliable trading platform, seems to at least sum up Bitcoin nicely, if not the brainless economic philosophies underlying this horseshit.

huangc10 13y ago
I was thinking the exact same thing. Plot twist? "There is no such thing as bad publicity"
ceol 13y ago
> HN, which appears to have become "Bitcoin News". Seriously, what's up with this? There are at least two Bitcoin articles on the front page every day. I had no idea Coinbase was funded by YC, though. I wonder if there's any correlation.
mgrunin 13y ago
For a split second your comment began to irritate me, until I finished the whole comment. At that point, your comment came off so eloquent written that I couldn't remain mad. Bravo.

camus2 13y ago

Can we say coinbase is basically shorting bitcoin with its customer's money ? (it's a question.)

scrame 13y ago

I bought 1 a few weeks ago. I got a notice last week that they rejected it and would be returning my money. They have still not returned my money, and their customer service emails just return an automated "we are looking into it", with no follow-up. It seems like they take orders as long as they make money (a friend ordering the day before took a loss and they accepted his payment no problem). Looking around their forums, the arbitrary rejections seem very common and make the company seem quite scammy.

frodopwns 13y ago

My first purchase with Coinbase took 7 full business days (not far off from what you waited). Other than that my experience with Coinbase has been 100% positive...extremely fast and reliable service.

yeahwhateverbro 13y ago

So Coinbase put me in a similar situation but they haven't bothered to respond to any of my emails thus far. Is this where I contact Coinbase customer support?

midas007 13y ago
founders@coinbase.com :)

deutronium 13y ago

Wow, what a disgraceful way to treat people. Certainly a company to steer clear of then.

adizam 13y ago

Well now I know not to use coinbase :)

mgrunin 13y ago

The situation has been appropriately resolved by CoinBase. I would like to thank Brian for making this right. It is unfortunate that this situation had to be dealt with in the public light, but this was my last resource before contacting lawyers. I will answer other comments later tonight. Thank you HackerNews. - Martin

ziyan 13y ago

You are lucky that someone actually responded to your support ticket/email. Most of us never heard a thing from them.

ziyanjoe 13y ago

You are lucky that someone actually responded to your support ticket/email. Most of us never heard a thing from them.

yarou 13y ago

This is why I can't take Bitcoin seriously. It's a liquidity depth issue. Much like HFT, there is a _perception_ that the order book has depth. But there's no guarantee that you'll get execution at the price displayed. At least market makers in the past were forced to execute up to a certain amount by regulation. No such regulation exists here.

thinkcomp 13y ago

The official way to file a complaint is with the California Department of Business Oversight, and the form is here: http://www.dbo.ca.gov/forms/tma/Form2120_English-Spanish.pdf http://www.dbo.ca.gov/forms/tma/Form2120_English-Spanish.pdf

thaifighter 13y ago

Crap. I was looking at Coinbase. Has this happened to others?

yeukhon 13y ago

Leaking the last four digit of your bank account can be dangerous. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44231957/#.UrKovi95F7M http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44231957/#.UrKovi95F7M Though old news god wonders what other services still do this. We know your name is Martian and if we spend enough time we might be able to identity your true identity and possible to start trying things. If you want to hide your identity, you probably should just use something more distinct. Just saying.

cehlen 13y ago

Question for mgrunin. In your opinion did CoinBase make things right? If not, why? If so then can well just drop this!

issdispatch 13y ago

I am really confused and frustrated. I sent my first ever BUY through Coinbase. I got my checking all set up. Made my purchase on 12-16-2013(an earth shattering .12 coins $100 bucks) No biggie. On 12-17-2013 the US funds left my bank account and off to coinbase. Alas... All I need to do is wait now until the 20th to spend my now 30 dollar loss due to market. Well here it is. The 20th of December somewhere in the world so I go to look at my account and there are no coins. Further inspection of this I find my transaction was canceled. No explanation. Just a big red canceled. Wheres my money now? I really want to be an advocate and intend to move WAY more than $100.00 into the bitcoin market place but seriously? Just a hundred dollar transaction that made one of their customers slightly irritated? Im glad I DIDN'T trust them with serious cash like the originator of this post! Come on... GUYS! Don't take the fun out of all this! Figure it out! (Because if its not fun... It certainly wont be VIABLE!)

tyang 13y ago

Bitcoin amateur hour continues.

coinhoarder 13y ago

I'm in the same exact situation, except for the amount of BTC (I purchased 10BTC). The ACH was cleared on Friday Dec 11th and the message read "Your bitcoin will arrive by the end of day on Friday Dec 13, 2013.". The actual coins didn't show up until mid-day Dec 18th, 5 days later and $400 below the Friday's levels. Can I have my purchase price adjusted as well? Or Coinbase have some sort of a preferential treatment program? My Case # is 73898.

wintermute2013 13y ago

mgrunin isn't alone. I have been having severe issues with Coinbase recently. Attempted to sell a small amount (less than 1) Bitcoin, and it has been nearly a month now -- no money in my bank. According to their own customer support representative, the transaction should take 2-7 business days. It has been more than double that. I've inquired again as to what the heck is going on, but I'm still waiting for a response. Unless they can get their act together and complete the transaction soon, I don't know if I'd trust Coinbase with my money.