11 ms·

What happens when you sit at a desk for 13 years and also exercise

348 points by deanproxy 13y ago

noelwelsh 13y ago
Gotta agree with this article. A standing desk has such a minor effect compared to actually doing vigorous exercise.
jarjoura 13y ago
100% agree. Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) is I can walk EVERYWHERE, including work and I do. Like the OP, walking to and from work and hitting the gym most days has vastly improved my quality of life and it doesn't even take away from much of my evening. If you need something to get you motivated, grab a Fitbit tracker and/or scale and track yourself. It'll only work in the beginning, but if you use that to your advantage to get out of your lazy slump, it should carry you forward.
- eru 13y ago
  > Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) is I can walk EVERYWHERE, [...] Or cycle. It's somewhat faster and more fun. (I like city life, too, for exactly that reason.)
- stass 13y ago
  > Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) How is it related to living in a city? At least in the Bay Area you can walk/cycle pretty much everywhere if your work is close enough to your job. And cycling in suburbs is usually safer/healthier than e.g. in San Francisco. You're out of luck if your job is far from your home though. But one will have the same problem in city as well in that case.
  - bmj 13y ago
    How is it related to living in a city? At least in the Bay Area you can walk/cycle pretty much everywhere if your work is close enough to your job. And cycling in suburbs is usually safer/healthier than e.g. in San Francisco. This depends on location. In my area, the suburbs (designed as they were in the 1950s-1970s) tend to be very pedestrian and cyclist unfriendly places, particularly in those areas with business parks. If you want to get around without a car, then you really need to be in the city. Your second point, however, is right on. I've always made it a point to find jobs within 10 miles of my home, so the bike commute is reasonable (having briefly done a 40 mile round trip commute, I can say that it took up too much of my time).
  - johnward 13y ago
    Maybe it's more of a perk of living close enough to your workplace. I commute 60 miles one way. No way I'm biking that everyday. It would take probably 8-9 hours round trip :)
mehulkar 13y ago
increase the dynos!
tofof 13y ago
What happens when you sit at a desk and your server melts in 57 minutes?
omn1 13y ago
I'm not sure about that. This guy has gone through some extremes. First he was standing 8 hours a day, no workout. Then he was sitting 12 hours a day, no workout. Then he got into bodybuilding using lots of machines which made him gain lots of muscles and finally he scales back to something I would call "normal": a healthy workout of 30min per day but... with some no-training gaps in between which can be several months long? I'm glad that he found his own routine but why did it take him so many years of going through extremes and now he's advertising his method like the only truth but still not sticking to the basics like eating healthy?
- deanproxy 13y ago
  I wouldn't call what I did or even what I do as "extreme". Far from it. Taking steroids and growth hormone is extreme. Lifting weights and enjoying it to the point where you want to better yourself at it? I don't see it as extreme. I also do not go several months without working out often. I did it during a shoulder surgery recovery and again earlier this year. I agree that is not a good idea, but life does get in the way sometimes and I was just pointing out that I'm no different than other people in that aspect. I also wouldn't advocate that my way is the one true way. I will say that my results are probably pretty typical of what most people may experience when they actually decide to exercise.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    yup, I used to exercise a lot and then I fell off the boat for about 5 years, simply because I no longer have a gym partner. Could feel my health failing. About three months ago I started doing the seven minute workouts, five or six times a week. I've been tweaking them a little bit, adding weights, changing exercise (but overall the idea is the same). I feel great. I think basically it boils down to: Commit to doing something that works for you, and stick to it. Also, since I'm a lab scientist almost my entire time working is standing up.
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    > Lifting weights and enjoying it to the point where you want to better yourself at it? I don't see it as extreme. I do. It is moving for the sake of moving rather than to achieve some productive effect. To me exercise is riding my to a place where I need to go rather than going by car if the distance is about right and the weather on the way out not too brutal. Walking, playing with the kids and so on. Lifting weights would indicate that I have calories to burn that go towards nothing else that helps. Usually at the end of the day I'm tired enough that I long for a bed rather than for more movement, especially not movement involving weights bought for the specific purpose of making that movement harder. If I really did have energy to burn after a full day I'd probably take up some sport or spend that time and energy improving the place that I live in.
mc_ 13y ago
I'll recommend Dan John's book "Intervention" because I think his approach to fitness for individuals covers a good chunk of the HN crowd. Personally, I have always been active and fit, but the reality of getting older and being part of a startup have made me fine-tune my regiment. I'd never been a gym rat, but having the time in school to spend 1.5-2 hours preparing for my sports seems ever the luxury today. Since the New Year (and the purchase of a road bike), I've been following a pretty consistent routine of biking to work (ranges between 4 and 6 km depending on the route I take), lifting at the gym for 30-45 minutes, and attending yoga classes at least twice weekly (one weekday evening class and one weekend morning class typically). I also play in a men's basketball league one night a week for most of the year. This provides the core of my activity; I can usually be found hiking, surfing, playing pickup soccer or basketball, and pretty much anything else active at various points too (which the core work supports and enhances). My gym sessions consist of 20 minutes of mobility exercises, moving all the joints in all the ranges of motion they should enjoy, followed by a focused "workout", usually 10-15 minutes long. They are almost exclusively full body movements, sometimes done with low reps and heavy weight (such as double kettlebell clean and jerks, 4 sets of 5), sometimes complexes (such as 4 sets of (3-5 pull ups then 10-15 pushups)), and sometimes Crossfit-style workouts (5 burpees, 10 kettlebell snatch (5 per arm), 15 mountain climbers, and 20 kettlebell swings (10 per arm); repeat until you can't). For my training, I have three simple steps (stolen from Dan John): 1. Do Something 2. Adjust 3. Perfect Anyway, that's my me-too to add to the OP.
nwh 13y ago
Site seems flakey, here's a mirror — http://archive.is/IbSt2 http://archive.is/IbSt2
- deanproxy 13y ago
  Thanks for this. I'm not sure what has happened to my server all of the sudden, it has handled loads bigger than what I was getting from posting this article. However, it has literally taken a jump off of a cliff.
  - timje1 13y ago
    Controversial use of 'literally' :)
ds_ 13y ago
Why not do both?
- deanproxy 13y ago
  If using a standing desk sounds like a good idea to you and you have the means to afford one or build one, it couldn't hurt to do both. My argument was that I did not feel like it was necessary considering my progress with sitting and doing regular exercise.
abcd_f 13y ago
It's better to be rich and healthy than sick and poor. Obviously if you exercise it doesn't really matter if you sit or stand at work. The question is how to handle the case when you can't/won't exercise and still need to work.
- heepler 13y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=sitting+harmful+even+if+you+exercise https://www.google.com/search?q=sitting+harmful+even+if+you+... Sitting for long periods tightens the hamstrings and cuts off circulation to your legs. Even if you exercise. Standing for long periods may give you varicose veins. Not sure there's a real solution here, other than to periodically disrupt any form of immobility.
  - icelancer 13y ago
    The best posture is a varied one.
    - droopyEyelids 13y ago
      This may be my own pessimistic take, but something about the simplicity and obvious-correctness of that advice makes me think it'll never be as blogworthy as a less realistic goal that you'd have to buy something new to try. Or, it's like the idea doesn't have the magic of an idea that you can't do right now but won't require any effort when the time is right- like "I could get up every few minutes and stretch and walk around already! That can't be it... I need to buy a standing desk and that'll make me stand all day so I'm healthy."
      - julius 13y ago
        You could easily combine the boring idea with something new and shiny (that makes the idea work in real life^^). Like a device giving you electric shocks every 10 minutes to make you remember to change your posture.
      - icelancer 13y ago
therealunreal 13y ago
... Your site goes down?
benatkin 13y ago
If you use a standing desk 20+ hours a week, you aren't sedentary. People who are stuck being sedentary won't be able to move to using a standing desk unless they stop being sedentary. There's a big gap between being sedentary and getting proper exercise. Sitting allows people to spend a lot of time moving very little, in addition to time spent sleeping. Standing involves a fair amount of effort. Just because using a standing desk often is a sure way for a person to not be sedentary doesn't mean it's the best idea. In fact the most sedentary people are probably going to have a hard time adapting to using a standing desk full-time.
taber1 13y ago
One case = anecdote. There is actually some evidence that you can't counteract the effects of sitting with exercise, unless you exercise more than you sit. And what exactly does "I'm healthy" mean? Is that what the doctor says after doing some test or is it just how you feel? What would be the status of your health (as measured by tests from a doctor) if you had an active job and some moderate exercise for the same period of 13 years? source: http://m.runnersworld.com/health/sitting-is-the-new-smoking-even-for-runners http://m.runnersworld.com/health/sitting-is-the-new-smoking-...
- deanproxy 13y ago
  I had a physical by my doctor about 3 months ago, as stated in my writing. So, yes... "I'm healthy" was declared by tests from a doctor.
  - taber1 13y ago
    Then it's seems that it's working out for you and maybe that would be a "middle road" for us, desk-bound people. However we still cannot fully counteract the negative effects of sitting, to quote the article which I linked in my previous post: "Adding to the mounting evidence, Hamilton recently discovered that a key gene (called lipid phosphate phosphatase-1 or LPP1) that helps prevent blood clotting and inflammation to keep your cardiovascular system healthy is significantly suppressed when you sit for a few hours. "The shocker was that LPP1 was not impacted by exercise if the muscles were inactive most of the day," Hamilton says. "Pretty scary to say that LPP1 is sensitive to sitting but resistant to exercise."
    - deanproxy 13y ago
      That's certainly possible. There is no way to tell other than to give it a shot for yourself. However, I will mention, I'm not blessed with great genetics by any means. I would say I am an average/below average individual when it comes to "good genetics". My entire family is riddled with health issues. My father died at the early age of 56 due to heart disease, his brother at 60. His father at 52. When I found I had cholesterol issues, this is what made me start my exercise routine, so I didn't end up like them. So far, it has helped me tremendously.
Amadou 13y ago
I once knew a guy who thought he could eat as much junk food as he wanted as long as he made up for it with "super-foods" (moringa MLM scam actually). Regular workouts don't decrease death risk if you're also a couch potato -- http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38385104/ns/health-fitness/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38385104/ns/health-fitness/ People who sit for most of the day are 54 percent more likely to die of heart attacks -- http://health.yahoo.net/experts/menshealth/most-dangerous-thing-youll-do-all-day http://health.yahoo.net/experts/menshealth/most-dangerous-th... Sitting shuts down the circulation of a fat-absorbing enzyme called lipase -- http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/0610-stand_up_for_your_health.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/0610-stand_up_for_yo...
- deanproxy 13y ago
  The problem is that there is no evidence that suggest standing in front of a computer screen helps at all in those situations as well. You're still stationary. You aren't moving. Moving your feet around below you to adjust the weight on your legs does nothing for your cardiovascular system. Unfortunately, as people who are tied to their computer screens for most of the day, we have very few options. One is to exercise. My story is one of being in better health than I was when I was in a job moving around all day just to give some perspective to this topic.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    there is no evidence that suggests standing in front of a computer screen helps From the last of the three links I posted: "They found that standing up engages muscles and promotes the distribution of lipase, which prompts the body to process fat and cholesterol, independent of the amount of time spent exercising. They also found that standing up uses blood glucose and may discourage the development of diabetes."
    - deanproxy 13y ago
      I apologize, I skimmed through that article too quickly. Nevertheless, I will still hold my position that I was once "Fat", with high cholesterol and could barely hold my own body up. With what I have stated in my post, I am now healthy and can do things that most 20 year olds can not do. So, I guess it works for me pretty well.
marti 13y ago
Between the two 'extremes' of standing and sitting, there's also the saddle chair [1]. I've used one at home for over a year now, but only up to a few hours a day, so can't really tell how much it has affected my posture in addition to regular exercise. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_chair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_chair
- agumonkey 13y ago
  I wanted to try something like this but didn't have one so I used a stool (4 legged IKEA with thin cushion). Not good, exhaustion feeling comes quickly, bad blood flow I suppose. I never bother searching for a real saddle chair but your post makes me wanna buy one.
oyvindeh 13y ago
Recently, there was an article in New Scientist about this[1]. Basically, if you sit for more than 6 hours a day, one hour of exercise a day doesn't undo the damage. The solution is to get up and move around often, i.e. every ~20 minutes or so. Exercise is still good even if you stand/move around often. And standing all day also has its problems, like others have mentioned. [1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829233.200-dont-take-life-sitting-down.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829233.200-dont-take... (edit: wording)
- Amadou 13y ago
  Right, it isn't just that exercise is good for you but rather all the time spent not exercising is bad for you.
  - oyvindeh 13y ago
    Exercise is still good, but it doesn't do magic if you live unhealthy the rest of the time. (That being said, I wonder if the extreme types of workout many people promote is actually good, or if it does more damage than good in the long run. I guess some people believe that one extreme can out-weight another extreme.)
    - lutusp 13y ago
      Here's one answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx Quote: " "Jim" Fixx (April 23, 1932 – July 20, 1984) was the author of the 1977 best-selling book, The Complete Book of Running. He is credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging. Fixx died in 1984 at the age of 52." Heart attack.
- deanproxy 13y ago
  I do this as well. I guess I should elaborate on my 8-12 hour days. It's rare now that I will sit in the chair for more than an hour at a time. Not only due to my awareness of the issues that it causes, but also because it just helps me clear my head to get up and go talk to some people, walk around the office, etc... This should be done if you have a standing desk as well.
austinz 13y ago
"Sitting at desk considered harmful considered harmful"? To be fair, I haven't seen any standing desk articles claiming that standing is some sort of magical panacea that can fully substitute for conventional exercise and a healthy diet, although I'm sure there's at least one out there.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  "Sitting is bad for you" is one of the hottest topics in popular health right now. Standing isn't so much a panacea as an alternative to the aforementioned sitting. Our forefathers didn't formally "exercise" in a gym - they moved around. As a practical matter, standing allows desk workers more movement than sitting does.
zacharycohn 13y ago
n of 1 != proof.
- deanproxy 13y ago
  It's proof that it worked for me. Somebody of average genetics and physique that had a lot of the same problems that others complain about and in turn try standing desks. Sometimes it's best to just give it a shot and see how it works for you instead of trying to find reasons not to try it. :)
- kinleyd 13y ago
  Make that n of 2: I began exercising everyday about 1 1/2 years ago, after over 15 years of zero exercise. Didn't change my diet, nothing besides the exercise which was basically an hour of basketball nearly everyday. Arms, legs, back, stomach, shoulders, neck, hands, fingers and toes are all getting toned, with the occasional muscle bulging a bit, and better yet - dropped 20 points of cholestrol and 10 points of sugar, among other gains. Feeling great too, with a lot of stamina. I'm once again enjoying the pleasure of being able to continue running and playing even while getting winded, instead of feeling like dying after the first 30 yards. A wonderful post, Dean. Thank you.
dtf 13y ago
My winter workout: pomodoro technique + no heating + pull-up bar. Work 25 minutes. Now you're so cold your fingers are about to drop off. Do push-ups until warm again. Work another 25 minutes. Now do pull-ups. Repeat..
- stinos 13y ago
  Not sure if you're serious, but having spent the last winter without central heating due to rather unfortunate renovation works timing, I'm really not sure this is a good thing. There were several consecutive weeks where the temperature inside would never rise above 10degrees celcius as we only head a small petrol burner. At night the condensation froze on the walls (outside temperatures of -10 degrees celcius). Sure enough movement keeps you warm, but basically you're always cold unless you're moving. I don't think I ever felt worse physically. Did gain quite some respect for homeless people in cold places though.
  - dtf 13y ago
    Semi-serious :-) I've worked in a number of cold, sometimes freezing locations in the depths of winter, although not quite as bad as your situation by the sounds of it. Push-ups and exercise does keep you warm and sharp though, should you need it. Sadly there's no quick fix for the opposite situation, when your mind turns to glue in the summer heat.
    - stinos 13y ago
      totally agree on the summer heat - you can always get warm with enough effort, getting cold without external help is simply impossible (I think?)
  - daliusd 13y ago
    It is so easy to forget that HN has people from very different parts of the world. I guess that technique described above will not work in Finland's winter at all.
parasight 13y ago
Too much of anything is usually bad for health. You can even exercise too much. So I don't think standing all day is the best solution. With adjustable desks it is pretty easy to alternate your working position during the day.
aaron695 13y ago
OK people it's pretty simple. The scientific evidence is you can not undo the damage from sitting extended periods by exercise or anything else known. Current scientific evidence is you can only not sit. Like all things there is some science that says hey maybe it's not true but the trend is going towards not sitting.
awjr 13y ago
I would strongly suggest anyone looking at this and saying they don't have the time to invest in this to also consider the mental benefits that exercise brings. I don't feel I have time (which I know is wrong) and I particularly do not like gyms, but I cycle to work (2 miles) and on the way home I'll take a detour and add an extra 5-10 miles to my trip home. It clears the cobwebs. Cycling can be very meditative as well. I am extremely lucky to be living in a place that allows me to do this on car free routes (Bath->Bristol cycle path and the Two Tunnels Circuit). If you live within 12 miles (and potentially up to 20 miles) of where you work (about an hour of easy riding), you should consider 'building' exercise into your commute. Even if it's twice a week to begin with. Be crazy and park your car 5 miles from work and cycle in from there and build it up. FYI before starting this I weighed about 310lb and have got myself down to 275lb within a year without focusing too much on what I eat.
- deanproxy 13y ago
  Indeed. I completely understand feeling like there isn't enough time to do it. Other than my 8-10 hour days at work, I have a teenage daughter, a wife and two dogs I have to attend to. I practice guitar daily, practice martial arts weekly, kayak regularly, read/study daily for my job, started learning more about F.A.C.S and Body Language and like to get in some gaming every now and then with the daughter. I've found that I have at least 30 minutes I can spare even with that load. It's not much, but it's better than nothing sometimes. It's awesome you can find the time with your cycling! Keep it up!
  - adwf 13y ago
    "If you want something done, ask a busy person to do it." I guess the rule about time management applies even when asking yourself to do something.
    - laichzeit0 13y ago
      Reminds me of something I read from Arnold Swazenegger: "While on maneuvers, Schwarzenegger and his fellow soldiers would use the hot spots (areas of metal over the tank’s engine) as a makeshift cooking stove, grilling up steaks and frying eggs. The eventual Mr. Universe continued his bodybuilding training even while off base, having stowed his workout equipment (plate weights, barbells, and a collapsible bench) in the tank’s tool storage areas." In his book he talks about getting up an hour earlier than everyone else so he could get a training session in during his military service. Talk about "making time" for something.
scotty79 13y ago
What happens if I already have a scoliosis and I spend 15 years or so siting at desk for 12 or more hours a day and I don't exercise? Absolutely nothing. Provided that I eat appropriately to my activity and my chairs are always somewhat uncomfortable. But if I spend a year working from chair as deeply reclined and comfortable (and position fixing) as this one: http://www.healthyback.com/products/Humantouch/Pc095-perfect-chair-electric-recliner/174 http://www.healthyback.com/products/Humantouch/Pc095-perfect... I get back pains because small muscles around my spine get weak and can be overstretched and damaged when I lift a fridge or something or just twist rapidly in some unusual direction.
scotty79 13y ago
Standing, sitting. It's all so tiring. Why we don't have chairs in which you could float submerged in pen of small balls that have similar density as your body?
matho 13y ago
I would guess the author already knows this, but kayaking is strongly associated with shoulder injuries/dislocations. Be careful, dude!
danboarder 13y ago
My work focus and overall health have really improved since I started running. I started running casually a few years ago but began to notice a real difference when I began training for a half-marathon with a local team. The training only required a couple half-hour runs during the week and a longer run with the group on Saturday mornings. Having a goal to run a real race and support of team runs motivated me to follow through and I lost about 40lbs over the course of training. Since then I have run the full LA Marathon and in a couple of months I will be running the Chicago Marathon, and I can honestly say I'm in the best shape of my life. I never was a runner before but I can say I am one now. It's not the running itself though, I think it's having a training goal and a team that supports you that can make it work. (btw my training group is Team World Vision, which has groups around the USA that run for causes). I would suggest the same result can come from biking, Crossfit, or other workout program where you have a clear goal and a group that supports your effort.
plg 13y ago
Swimming is awesome. The overhead can be significant (finding a pool with lap swim hours amenable to your schedule) but the equipment cost is minimal ($20 speedo) and it's amazing exercise. I also find the time in the water to be a soothing break from the outside world.
holri 13y ago
3 x 1h exercises a week during 50 years is approx. a year lifetime. It is likely that if you do this you add more than one healthy year to your lifetime. Therefore exercises are saving life time.
TureMasing 13y ago
COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS DISCUSSION BELOW. Spare yourself 76 more or less useless comments and STOP HERE. You sit. That's it. There is almost nothing you can do about it. It's called work. Anyway, it's NOT dangerous. Get a coffee, go to the men's room, get lunch, stand for a while, go to the silent reading room... That's automatic and stops you from being seated more than an hour at a stretch. Add 30 minutes of walking every day (7 minutes to the office, 7 minutes home, 7 minutes to get lunch, 7 minutes to get back and then maybe to and from a meeting) and you should be OK as long as you don't stuff yourself with cheeseburgers and fries everyday. If you on top of that add 4 hours of weight lifting (actually 1 hour lifting and 3 hours resting) you can get extremely fit; Gladiator contender or Fear factor kind of fit. Like I am. Also, don't forget intermittent fasting everyday 16:8-style.
- taber1 13y ago
  With that kind of logic, most discussions would be meaningless. Basically we are all dying from a disease called "life". The point is how you want to die: either miserably from chronic illnesses brought by long years of bad habits or gracefully from old age. However, there are no guarantees, but if you don't buy a ticket, you have zero chances of winning. Anyway, eating "healthy" does not beat exercise.
gonzo 13y ago
This is why I installed a gym at work.
- rusabd 13y ago
  our HR is concerned that squat rack can hurt someone
biggfoot 13y ago
The only reason people don't exercise is because they don't. I don't know of a genuine reason to not be able to spare 20 minutes a day. If you can do nothing else, run for 10 minutes and do 50 push ups, that's all it takes.
stiff 13y ago
What is missing in the discussion of this and the previous article is some reflection on physiology and why could prolonged sitting possibly be bad for you in the first place. One must know that that there are many processes in the human body that can only be executed efficiently when we move, like for example transfer of lymph or movement of digested food through the intestines (involuntary smooth muscle contractions are also involved in both processes but skeletal muscle contractions make it much more effective). Problems with the gastrointestinal tract, like not visiting the toilet often enough, have been linked to a great amount of diseases, so this is something to be concerned about. Hence doing sports after 8 hours of sitting will not necessarily counterbalance all the negative effects involved. I am not so sure working standing would be better, either. I think a good practical recommendation that is great in many aspects is to take a short break every 2 hours or so and get just 5 minutes of exercise done, just enough to get the heart beating a bit faster and the blood circulating, it can be just basic stretching or isometric contractions, whatever you are able to easily execute in your office environment. It makes the work day much more productive, too.
- shicky 13y ago
  seems to be the key point missing in all of this, exercising with a biomechanically screwed body = more problems. Though I certainly agree most just need to get off their butt and do something, I've had 7years of hip issues because my body essentially cheats deep hip flexion and I need to re-learn the correct way.
- graeme 13y ago
  I agree. I exercise, chiefly barbell lifts. They do help quite a bit, a bunch of chronic pain went away. But how I work matters too. I feel better if I take breaks and move around, or if I alternate between standing and sitting. And my hip flexors are worse if I sit all the time.
- jakebellacera 13y ago
  > I am not so sure working standing would be better, either. I'm curious if standing desks make taking breaks much more accessible. Like many others, I use a program that basically notifies me every 30 minutes to take a 2 minute break. Even then, I find myself "skipping" them often as I'm typically in the middle of intense focus and I honestly feel like it's too much effort to get up and walk around at times.
leothekim 13y ago
Moving to a standing desk is not "futile". For myself, a standing desk prevents me from reinjuring my lower back and potentially missing out on a couple days of work due to back spasms. Others use it to help them with repetitive stress injury. And how did I injure my back? Exercising with too much weights at the gym!
- neverminder 13y ago
  Usually it's not too much weight, but the wrong posture/trajectory of the exercise that causes injuries.
Fizzadar 13y ago
Couldn't agree more with the standing desks - no doubt they bring some improvement, but they do seem more like the 'in-thing' and 'hip' rather than genuinely life changing. As it always has been, regular (even if short) exercise sessions are a key part in healthy living.
- jfb 13y ago
  The thing I like about standing desks is that they encourage better behavior than a sitting desk -- they're not by themselves anything like a panacea, but it's a lot harder to be completely sessile when you're standing up. The style of working at a standing desk, I find, is conducive to taking short breaks, walking around, even moving to a chair to sit and read or think.
- Dewie 13y ago
  Do you think that people just all of a sudden decided that standing might kind of be a cool thing for their circulation or whatever? If it's a "hip" thing, it's probably because it's inspired by stuff like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ Which states that sitting a lot is bad, even if you are an individual who exercises. And this does not imply that people want to replace standing with exercising, which is a false dichotomy proposed in the article.
mironathetin 13y ago
I agree that software development as a job works only, if you exercise regularly. During the last 15 years, I swim regularly, twice a week, usually 2km freestyle. And I run once a week, 12 km. I do this with my wife and we do it before work. We always insisted to get the time in the morning. In summer, when the outdoor pools are open, we swim outside, although the pools open only at 9 am. We aren't at our desk before 10:30 in that case (once or twice a week). I won't accept a work that doesn't give me this freedom. In the evening, the kids are at home and we cannot leave. And all the lazy office guys drift in the pool and this is annoying, if you want to swim. I am 48 now and have zero health issues. No back problems, no blood pressure problems, not an ounce overweight. Same with my wife. I can only whole-heartedly encourage everyone to do the same. It sets a standard for software developers and life is so much more enjoyable.
tootie 13y ago
When I worked in a "war room" one of the guys got us on a pushup routine. 2-3 times a day everyone stops what they're doing and does pushups. Start with as many as you can do (even if it's 5) and just do it a few times a day and you'll build up strength really quick. The guy who started it was about 40 and pretty heavy. We had two mid-30s moms in our room who got in on it and worked up to 20 pushups (from their feet, not knees) in a few weeks. Sadly, the band broke up after a while and moved to different areas, but it was pretty awesome while it lasted.
peterwwillis 13y ago
My humble advice: Don't be an armchair health & fitness expert. Read up on it for intellectual stimulation, but don't expect to learn any magical secrets to being in shape or healthy. All the magical secrets have been known for a long time, and they're really, really boring. You should do whatever makes you happy [within reason]. You should probably not drink 10 sodas and 5 bags of chips a day. But if you feel like having one, fuck it, life is short. If you feel like standing at your desk, go to town! Don't expect it to fix your problems. Just enjoy yourself. If you feel like lifting weights, do that too, but if you don't feel like it, ..... you get the picture. Be active, be healthy-ish, but in terms that you can enjoy in life. Some people like dancing. Some people like running. Some people like kicking the shit out of a heavy bag. That's the only real secret to health & fitness: learning to enjoy it and be happy. (Personally, the only thing that made me adopt an active lifestyle was group exercise. Now that i'm more used to the routines I work out by myself or do sports. But if you find yourself having trouble getting started, try signing up for a group class with people who seem nice and a good instructor)
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>But if you feel like having one, fuck it, life is short. Yes, life is short. Therefore you should avoid things that will make it even shorter. I always hear stuff like "whatever man, you only live once." It seems so irrational to use that to justify bad habits. If you only live once, should you not try to increase the length and quality of that life by trying to be in the best health possible?
  - boucher 13y ago
    People have different yardsticks for quality.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Yes, life is short. Therefore you should avoid things that will make it even shorter. The second doesn't derive from the first. If anything, "life is short, so don't obsess about its duration" is a better guideline. >I always hear stuff like "whatever man, you only live once." It seems so irrational to use that to justify bad habits. If you only live once, should you not try to increase the length and quality of that life by trying to be in the best health possible? "Bad habits" are some of the most quality time people get to have.
phaus 13y ago
The author seems to miss the facts that spurred the trend for standing desks in the first place. Whether you exercise or not, sitting down all day dramatically increases your chances of dying from heart disease. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sitting/AN02082 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sitting/AN02082
zwieback 13y ago
Enjoyed reading this - I didn't expect that anyone could be serious about the art and craft of window tinting! However, deanproxy seems like the kind of guy who can tackle anything and throw in a few ounces of obsession to make it work. For the regular Joe standing desks might just be the one tiny thing they can do. They've become super popular at cubicleland here at HP and our facilities people will come and set them up for free.
crazygringo 13y ago
For anyone interested... if you want good posture, if you want to really be in shape, there are a million fads out there, but the best book by far is "Starting Strength" [1]. (It's also one of the best-selling on Amazon.) It essentially focuses on just the squat, deadlift, press, bench press, and (later) power clean, devoting around forty pages to each, and explains why you really don't need much else. They're quite difficult to get right, but the incredibly in-depth explanations will especially appeal to programmers who like understanding how things work. I say this just because the book completely changed the way I approach the gym, and it mirrors what the article author says about the exercises he used. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738/ http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp...
- krisgee 13y ago
  They also have a youtube channel where Rip coaches all of the lifts in the book and gives advice on where to go when you aren't progressing and what to do in terms of accessory movements. http://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo http://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  I can vouch for Starting Strength. If your body sucks, read this book. A lot of it will go over your head, and you don't need to read every single page, but once you start, really focus on nailing the three lifts. I went from 45lb on the bar for all lifts to: 350 squat 475 deadlift 260 bench 290 powerclean 180 snatch 225 c&j 315 front squat (the last 4 lifts are because I starting getting seriously into pure olympic lifting). In under a year. I didn't use any drugs, but what I did do was post a massive wall-wide calendar on my wall, and in each day were checkboxes for: daily 5g creatine, daily sleep , daily macros (protein/fat/carb), daily fish oil. I used a calorie counting application to make sure that without fail, every single day I got 300g protein, 400g carbs, around 150g fat (300x4 + 400x4 + 150x9 = 4100~ calories). I gained about 90lb, gained a ton of strength, then did a 2000 calorie cut still while powerlifting and then sprinting twice a day every day to cut weight fast. Absolutely changed my life. I unlocked the greatest super power of all: controlling how I feel day in and day out. No more irritation, no more snappy emotions, no more all nighters and wasting 2 days recouping. I am able to put on weight whenever I want, and cut it whenever I want. It's really incredible the shift you notice when you nail your diet and exercise down to a solid routine. You are much more stable throughout your daily tasks. In the end, paying extreme attention to the trifecta and literally never once straying from it for a year (sleep/nutrition/exercise), it locked me into a proper mindset that I am able to sustain and not wane off of. Meaning I wouldn't have a new goal every single day, I wouldn't waste one day feeling extremely down in the dumps like I used to (used to be suicidal/suffer from extreme depression). No episodes, just focus. Start getting strong, it will absolutely change your life and empower you.
aimatt 13y ago
What happens if you stand at a standing desk and exercise? It's going well for me. $10 in lumber to convert my normal sitting desk.
roin 13y ago
I'm glad that the author is having a good experience with his sit all day and frequently exercise plan. But his conclusion that standing desks provide very little benefit to your overall health is based on his sample size of one, never actually using a standing desk, and then extrapolating that "result" to the rest of the human race. The only useful conclusion in this post has nothing to do with standing desks. It is simply that exercise will help you feel good and improve your health.
uberstuber 13y ago
If you sit all day the couch stretch [1] helps a lot to undo the shortening in your hip flexors. 2 min a day each side. Really painful if you sit a lot. Kelly Starrett has a lot of great information about mobility. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-ZX1QMTdAC4#t=126 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-ZX...
moo 13y ago
I think a previous HN article of a 10 minute routine of body weight exercises is a better program for many than a weight lifting routine for cardio and maintaining body weight. I think body weight exercises are often overlooked. Pullups, situps, pushups, pistol squats. Also add a jump rope for little weight, portability, and requires little space. I don't see too many fat runners, gymnasts, or cyclists. Power lifters, Olympic weight lifters often have a lot of fat with muscle. I like a pyramid type routine of starting with 1 pullup, 2 pushups, 3 situps, and repeat doing multiples ( ie then 2 pullups, 4 pushups, 6 situps, ...). For jumping rope remember to alternate the weight bearing foot like a boxer, jumping with both feet together takes more energy and I find lactic acid builds up faster.
ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
I like to train in mixed martial arts. Judo/Boxing/BJJ/etc. It's a good way to get in shape that also offers a steep intellectual and physical challenge. At least, they're both similar in that people usually compliment each other on how much technique they have. I've noticed a correlation with programmers that train. The crazier the languages they like the better grapplers they are, yet DevOps types lean toward striking. Don't think it makes any sense though.
ShinyObject 13y ago
I agree with the points he makes and have had a similar experience. I have worked desk jobs with minimal movement for the last 10 years and getting into resistance training plus cardio has made a huge difference in the amount of energy I have, mood, posture, etc. One statement I take issue with is this line "I put on 40 pounds of muscle one year alone...". This is essentially impossible barring a malfunctioning thyroid. I don't doubt that he put on 40 pounds of weight in a year but I can guarantee it wasn't all muscle. If you are 17-20 and finishing up puberty, using anabolic steroids, working out incredibly hard 5-6 days per week, and eating 4000+ calories per day every day _maybe_ you could put on 30 pounds of muscle in a year. If you are in your late 20s early 30s as he was, not using steroids (I assume), and working out hard your max muscle gain in a year might be around 20lbs. For a normal 30 year old working out 3x a week it's closer to 12-15lbs/year after newbie-gains have ended. I say this not to discourage but rather to give people realistic expectations, I believe the most common reason people fail at exercise is they are overly ambitious and burn out quickly when they don't look like Hulk overnight. If someone was looking for a good starting point for fitness I recommend scooby1961 on youtube, he has been around a long time and has a ton of videos on fitness and nutrition aimed at newbies, and takes the perspective of an engineer looking at the body as a machine. As someone who has been into this for a while my advice would be: 1. Start small and ramp up, if you do nothing currently start with walking 20 minutes per day. 2. Do not spend a bunch of money on fancy equipment, like all hobbies until you get deeper into the game you won't even know what you should get. 3. Avoid injury, esp your lower back and shoulders. The best way to do this is perfect form. Always have perfect form, cheating with bad form to get one extra rep is only cheating yourself, the goal is to work the muscle to failure, not hit some number. 4. If you want to do a home gym you can work 95% of your muscle groups with dumbbells, a barbell, and a pullup bar. The only thing you cannot work out well with these is your quads. For that you need a leg press machine or a squat cage (ie: a gym). 5. Most suppliments are unproven snake oil that waste your money at best, and at worst destroy your kidneys/liver or give you heavy metal poisoning. The only supplements I consider proven effective with minimal side-effects are caffeine (pre-workout) and creatine. I will not recommend any brands but look for ones that are quality tested by independent labs (like USP). 6. Cardio with resistance (weights) is best, but if you only have time for one make it cardio. This is more important for your long term health. 7. Sticking to a routine is not about will-power, it's about habits. The first time you work out with weights it's intimidating as hell and you feel like a bumbling idiot, you do that 2 or 3 times a week for a few weeks and it feels like a chore, you do it for a year and it happens on auto pilot, you don't even think about it.
Dewie 13y ago
> To me, this has always seemed a bit futile as well as overkill. You're still sedentary. You're providing very little benefit to your overall well being and it's simply yet another way that people are trying to get something for nothing when it comes to health . I've read a lot of the examples of it's positive effects. I've read a lot of the raving reviews of people that do this, but I ultimately come to the same conclusion every time I read this stuff... exercise a little bit every day. It's healthier than standing all day, it's free, doesn't require expensive furniture, doesn't require you to beg your boss for something expensive and it's something you should be doing anyway. I'm tired of this type of condescension. I guess because the author writes to a community of programmers, or nerds, or whatever, he feels that he can address them as if they are all sloths. I have not had the impression in the overall debate about this standing/sitting business that people are saying that they are going over to a standing desk in order to not exercise. One can perfectly well imagine that the people that are going over to a standing desk because they think that it brings benefits that are a good complement to an overall healthy lifestyle, like eating and exercising properly (I notice that you say that you don't eat healthily, deanproxy... does this mean that you willingly do this because you think that an exercise routine can fully compensate for a bad diet...?). If someone vows to try to have better posture in their everyday life, does that mean that they think that it is a replacement for something like a good exercise routing for the back muscles? No. So this is standing/sitting contra exercising is a false dichotomy. In fact, this whole standing/sitting discussion was partly propelled by studies that showed that sitting a lot was bad for ones health, also for active people [0] : > Even when adults meet physical activity guidelines, sitting for prolonged periods can compromise metabolic health. To turn deanproxy's baseless condescenscion towards "standers" and their supposed lazyness on its head: deanproxy is simply trying to rationalize his sedentary habits by asserting that having discrete blocks of activity time during the day counteracts his sedentary existence for the rest of the day. To get the whole picture and in order to be in a position to assert that standing is inconsequential, deanproxy should also have experience with a lifestyle in which he exercises and stands/walks/is somewhat active in his day job. But it does not seem that he does. Perhaps not too surprising when his whole argument rests on standing CONTRA exercising in your free time. And what all of this shows is that the zealots (imaginary or not) who vow to NOT exercise BECAUSE they stand during their day jobs are leading an inferior lifestyle because deanproxy exercises and is able to do WITHOUT standing (and eating healthily... ). So deanproxy can claim victory here, the victory of being an exercise-zealot over the standing-zealots. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/
codersteve 13y ago
For those of you that are interested, you might want to look up "Convict Conditioning". http://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditioning-Weakness-Using-Survival-Strength/dp/0938045768 http://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditioning-Weakness-Using-Su...

348 points by deanproxy 13y ago

Gotta agree with this article. A standing desk has such a minor effect compared to actually doing vigorous exercise.

100% agree. Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) is I can walk EVERYWHERE, including work and I do. Like the OP, walking to and from work and hitting the gym most days has vastly improved my quality of life and it doesn't even take away from much of my evening. If you need something to get you motivated, grab a Fitbit tracker and/or scale and track yourself. It'll only work in the beginning, but if you use that to your advantage to get out of your lazy slump, it should carry you forward.

eru 13y ago
> Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) is I can walk EVERYWHERE, [...] Or cycle. It's somewhat faster and more fun. (I like city life, too, for exactly that reason.)
stass 13y ago
> Also a perk of living in a city (such as San Francisco) How is it related to living in a city? At least in the Bay Area you can walk/cycle pretty much everywhere if your work is close enough to your job. And cycling in suburbs is usually safer/healthier than e.g. in San Francisco. You're out of luck if your job is far from your home though. But one will have the same problem in city as well in that case.
- bmj 13y ago
  How is it related to living in a city? At least in the Bay Area you can walk/cycle pretty much everywhere if your work is close enough to your job. And cycling in suburbs is usually safer/healthier than e.g. in San Francisco. This depends on location. In my area, the suburbs (designed as they were in the 1950s-1970s) tend to be very pedestrian and cyclist unfriendly places, particularly in those areas with business parks. If you want to get around without a car, then you really need to be in the city. Your second point, however, is right on. I've always made it a point to find jobs within 10 miles of my home, so the bike commute is reasonable (having briefly done a 40 mile round trip commute, I can say that it took up too much of my time).
- johnward 13y ago
  Maybe it's more of a perk of living close enough to your workplace. I commute 60 miles one way. No way I'm biking that everyday. It would take probably 8-9 hours round trip :)

mehulkar 13y ago

increase the dynos!

tofof 13y ago

What happens when you sit at a desk and your server melts in 57 minutes?

omn1 13y ago

I'm not sure about that. This guy has gone through some extremes. First he was standing 8 hours a day, no workout. Then he was sitting 12 hours a day, no workout. Then he got into bodybuilding using lots of machines which made him gain lots of muscles and finally he scales back to something I would call "normal": a healthy workout of 30min per day but... with some no-training gaps in between which can be several months long? I'm glad that he found his own routine but why did it take him so many years of going through extremes and now he's advertising his method like the only truth but still not sticking to the basics like eating healthy?

deanproxy 13y ago
I wouldn't call what I did or even what I do as "extreme". Far from it. Taking steroids and growth hormone is extreme. Lifting weights and enjoying it to the point where you want to better yourself at it? I don't see it as extreme. I also do not go several months without working out often. I did it during a shoulder surgery recovery and again earlier this year. I agree that is not a good idea, but life does get in the way sometimes and I was just pointing out that I'm no different than other people in that aspect. I also wouldn't advocate that my way is the one true way. I will say that my results are probably pretty typical of what most people may experience when they actually decide to exercise.
- dnautics 13y ago
  yup, I used to exercise a lot and then I fell off the boat for about 5 years, simply because I no longer have a gym partner. Could feel my health failing. About three months ago I started doing the seven minute workouts, five or six times a week. I've been tweaking them a little bit, adding weights, changing exercise (but overall the idea is the same). I feel great. I think basically it boils down to: Commit to doing something that works for you, and stick to it. Also, since I'm a lab scientist almost my entire time working is standing up.
- jacquesm 13y ago
  > Lifting weights and enjoying it to the point where you want to better yourself at it? I don't see it as extreme. I do. It is moving for the sake of moving rather than to achieve some productive effect. To me exercise is riding my to a place where I need to go rather than going by car if the distance is about right and the weather on the way out not too brutal. Walking, playing with the kids and so on. Lifting weights would indicate that I have calories to burn that go towards nothing else that helps. Usually at the end of the day I'm tired enough that I long for a bed rather than for more movement, especially not movement involving weights bought for the specific purpose of making that movement harder. If I really did have energy to burn after a full day I'd probably take up some sport or spend that time and energy improving the place that I live in.

mc_ 13y ago

I'll recommend Dan John's book "Intervention" because I think his approach to fitness for individuals covers a good chunk of the HN crowd. Personally, I have always been active and fit, but the reality of getting older and being part of a startup have made me fine-tune my regiment. I'd never been a gym rat, but having the time in school to spend 1.5-2 hours preparing for my sports seems ever the luxury today. Since the New Year (and the purchase of a road bike), I've been following a pretty consistent routine of biking to work (ranges between 4 and 6 km depending on the route I take), lifting at the gym for 30-45 minutes, and attending yoga classes at least twice weekly (one weekday evening class and one weekend morning class typically). I also play in a men's basketball league one night a week for most of the year. This provides the core of my activity; I can usually be found hiking, surfing, playing pickup soccer or basketball, and pretty much anything else active at various points too (which the core work supports and enhances). My gym sessions consist of 20 minutes of mobility exercises, moving all the joints in all the ranges of motion they should enjoy, followed by a focused "workout", usually 10-15 minutes long. They are almost exclusively full body movements, sometimes done with low reps and heavy weight (such as double kettlebell clean and jerks, 4 sets of 5), sometimes complexes (such as 4 sets of (3-5 pull ups then 10-15 pushups)), and sometimes Crossfit-style workouts (5 burpees, 10 kettlebell snatch (5 per arm), 15 mountain climbers, and 20 kettlebell swings (10 per arm); repeat until you can't). For my training, I have three simple steps (stolen from Dan John): 1. Do Something 2. Adjust 3. Perfect Anyway, that's my me-too to add to the OP.

nwh 13y ago

Site seems flakey, here's a mirror — http://archive.is/IbSt2 http://archive.is/IbSt2

deanproxy 13y ago
Thanks for this. I'm not sure what has happened to my server all of the sudden, it has handled loads bigger than what I was getting from posting this article. However, it has literally taken a jump off of a cliff.
- timje1 13y ago
  Controversial use of 'literally' :)

ds_ 13y ago

Why not do both?

deanproxy 13y ago
If using a standing desk sounds like a good idea to you and you have the means to afford one or build one, it couldn't hurt to do both. My argument was that I did not feel like it was necessary considering my progress with sitting and doing regular exercise.

abcd_f 13y ago

It's better to be rich and healthy than sick and poor. Obviously if you exercise it doesn't really matter if you sit or stand at work. The question is how to handle the case when you can't/won't exercise and still need to work.

heepler 13y ago
https://www.google.com/search?q=sitting+harmful+even+if+you+exercise https://www.google.com/search?q=sitting+harmful+even+if+you+... Sitting for long periods tightens the hamstrings and cuts off circulation to your legs. Even if you exercise. Standing for long periods may give you varicose veins. Not sure there's a real solution here, other than to periodically disrupt any form of immobility.
- icelancer 13y ago
  The best posture is a varied one.
  - droopyEyelids 13y ago
    This may be my own pessimistic take, but something about the simplicity and obvious-correctness of that advice makes me think it'll never be as blogworthy as a less realistic goal that you'd have to buy something new to try. Or, it's like the idea doesn't have the magic of an idea that you can't do right now but won't require any effort when the time is right- like "I could get up every few minutes and stretch and walk around already! That can't be it... I need to buy a standing desk and that'll make me stand all day so I'm healthy."
    - julius 13y ago
      You could easily combine the boring idea with something new and shiny (that makes the idea work in real life^^). Like a device giving you electric shocks every 10 minutes to make you remember to change your posture.
    - icelancer 13y ago

therealunreal 13y ago

... Your site goes down?

benatkin 13y ago

If you use a standing desk 20+ hours a week, you aren't sedentary. People who are stuck being sedentary won't be able to move to using a standing desk unless they stop being sedentary. There's a big gap between being sedentary and getting proper exercise. Sitting allows people to spend a lot of time moving very little, in addition to time spent sleeping. Standing involves a fair amount of effort. Just because using a standing desk often is a sure way for a person to not be sedentary doesn't mean it's the best idea. In fact the most sedentary people are probably going to have a hard time adapting to using a standing desk full-time.

taber1 13y ago

One case = anecdote. There is actually some evidence that you can't counteract the effects of sitting with exercise, unless you exercise more than you sit. And what exactly does "I'm healthy" mean? Is that what the doctor says after doing some test or is it just how you feel? What would be the status of your health (as measured by tests from a doctor) if you had an active job and some moderate exercise for the same period of 13 years? source: http://m.runnersworld.com/health/sitting-is-the-new-smoking-even-for-runners http://m.runnersworld.com/health/sitting-is-the-new-smoking-...

deanproxy 13y ago
I had a physical by my doctor about 3 months ago, as stated in my writing. So, yes... "I'm healthy" was declared by tests from a doctor.
- taber1 13y ago
  Then it's seems that it's working out for you and maybe that would be a "middle road" for us, desk-bound people. However we still cannot fully counteract the negative effects of sitting, to quote the article which I linked in my previous post: "Adding to the mounting evidence, Hamilton recently discovered that a key gene (called lipid phosphate phosphatase-1 or LPP1) that helps prevent blood clotting and inflammation to keep your cardiovascular system healthy is significantly suppressed when you sit for a few hours. "The shocker was that LPP1 was not impacted by exercise if the muscles were inactive most of the day," Hamilton says. "Pretty scary to say that LPP1 is sensitive to sitting but resistant to exercise."
  - deanproxy 13y ago
    That's certainly possible. There is no way to tell other than to give it a shot for yourself. However, I will mention, I'm not blessed with great genetics by any means. I would say I am an average/below average individual when it comes to "good genetics". My entire family is riddled with health issues. My father died at the early age of 56 due to heart disease, his brother at 60. His father at 52. When I found I had cholesterol issues, this is what made me start my exercise routine, so I didn't end up like them. So far, it has helped me tremendously.

Amadou 13y ago

I once knew a guy who thought he could eat as much junk food as he wanted as long as he made up for it with "super-foods" (moringa MLM scam actually). Regular workouts don't decrease death risk if you're also a couch potato -- http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38385104/ns/health-fitness/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38385104/ns/health-fitness/ People who sit for most of the day are 54 percent more likely to die of heart attacks -- http://health.yahoo.net/experts/menshealth/most-dangerous-thing-youll-do-all-day http://health.yahoo.net/experts/menshealth/most-dangerous-th... Sitting shuts down the circulation of a fat-absorbing enzyme called lipase -- http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/0610-stand_up_for_your_health.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/0610-stand_up_for_yo...

deanproxy 13y ago
The problem is that there is no evidence that suggest standing in front of a computer screen helps at all in those situations as well. You're still stationary. You aren't moving. Moving your feet around below you to adjust the weight on your legs does nothing for your cardiovascular system. Unfortunately, as people who are tied to their computer screens for most of the day, we have very few options. One is to exercise. My story is one of being in better health than I was when I was in a job moving around all day just to give some perspective to this topic.
- Amadou 13y ago
  there is no evidence that suggests standing in front of a computer screen helps From the last of the three links I posted: "They found that standing up engages muscles and promotes the distribution of lipase, which prompts the body to process fat and cholesterol, independent of the amount of time spent exercising. They also found that standing up uses blood glucose and may discourage the development of diabetes."
  - deanproxy 13y ago
    I apologize, I skimmed through that article too quickly. Nevertheless, I will still hold my position that I was once "Fat", with high cholesterol and could barely hold my own body up. With what I have stated in my post, I am now healthy and can do things that most 20 year olds can not do. So, I guess it works for me pretty well.

marti 13y ago

Between the two 'extremes' of standing and sitting, there's also the saddle chair [1]. I've used one at home for over a year now, but only up to a few hours a day, so can't really tell how much it has affected my posture in addition to regular exercise. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_chair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_chair

agumonkey 13y ago
I wanted to try something like this but didn't have one so I used a stool (4 legged IKEA with thin cushion). Not good, exhaustion feeling comes quickly, bad blood flow I suppose. I never bother searching for a real saddle chair but your post makes me wanna buy one.

oyvindeh 13y ago

Recently, there was an article in New Scientist about this[1]. Basically, if you sit for more than 6 hours a day, one hour of exercise a day doesn't undo the damage. The solution is to get up and move around often, i.e. every ~20 minutes or so. Exercise is still good even if you stand/move around often. And standing all day also has its problems, like others have mentioned. [1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829233.200-dont-take-life-sitting-down.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829233.200-dont-take... (edit: wording)

Amadou 13y ago
Right, it isn't just that exercise is good for you but rather all the time spent not exercising is bad for you.
- oyvindeh 13y ago
  Exercise is still good, but it doesn't do magic if you live unhealthy the rest of the time. (That being said, I wonder if the extreme types of workout many people promote is actually good, or if it does more damage than good in the long run. I guess some people believe that one extreme can out-weight another extreme.)
  - lutusp 13y ago
    Here's one answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx Quote: " "Jim" Fixx (April 23, 1932 – July 20, 1984) was the author of the 1977 best-selling book, The Complete Book of Running. He is credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging. Fixx died in 1984 at the age of 52." Heart attack.
deanproxy 13y ago
I do this as well. I guess I should elaborate on my 8-12 hour days. It's rare now that I will sit in the chair for more than an hour at a time. Not only due to my awareness of the issues that it causes, but also because it just helps me clear my head to get up and go talk to some people, walk around the office, etc... This should be done if you have a standing desk as well.

austinz 13y ago

"Sitting at desk considered harmful considered harmful"? To be fair, I haven't seen any standing desk articles claiming that standing is some sort of magical panacea that can fully substitute for conventional exercise and a healthy diet, although I'm sure there's at least one out there.

auctiontheory 13y ago
"Sitting is bad for you" is one of the hottest topics in popular health right now. Standing isn't so much a panacea as an alternative to the aforementioned sitting. Our forefathers didn't formally "exercise" in a gym - they moved around. As a practical matter, standing allows desk workers more movement than sitting does.

zacharycohn 13y ago

n of 1 != proof.

deanproxy 13y ago
It's proof that it worked for me. Somebody of average genetics and physique that had a lot of the same problems that others complain about and in turn try standing desks. Sometimes it's best to just give it a shot and see how it works for you instead of trying to find reasons not to try it. :)
kinleyd 13y ago
Make that n of 2: I began exercising everyday about 1 1/2 years ago, after over 15 years of zero exercise. Didn't change my diet, nothing besides the exercise which was basically an hour of basketball nearly everyday. Arms, legs, back, stomach, shoulders, neck, hands, fingers and toes are all getting toned, with the occasional muscle bulging a bit, and better yet - dropped 20 points of cholestrol and 10 points of sugar, among other gains. Feeling great too, with a lot of stamina. I'm once again enjoying the pleasure of being able to continue running and playing even while getting winded, instead of feeling like dying after the first 30 yards. A wonderful post, Dean. Thank you.

dtf 13y ago

My winter workout: pomodoro technique + no heating + pull-up bar. Work 25 minutes. Now you're so cold your fingers are about to drop off. Do push-ups until warm again. Work another 25 minutes. Now do pull-ups. Repeat..

stinos 13y ago
Not sure if you're serious, but having spent the last winter without central heating due to rather unfortunate renovation works timing, I'm really not sure this is a good thing. There were several consecutive weeks where the temperature inside would never rise above 10degrees celcius as we only head a small petrol burner. At night the condensation froze on the walls (outside temperatures of -10 degrees celcius). Sure enough movement keeps you warm, but basically you're always cold unless you're moving. I don't think I ever felt worse physically. Did gain quite some respect for homeless people in cold places though.
- dtf 13y ago
  Semi-serious :-) I've worked in a number of cold, sometimes freezing locations in the depths of winter, although not quite as bad as your situation by the sounds of it. Push-ups and exercise does keep you warm and sharp though, should you need it. Sadly there's no quick fix for the opposite situation, when your mind turns to glue in the summer heat.
  - stinos 13y ago
    totally agree on the summer heat - you can always get warm with enough effort, getting cold without external help is simply impossible (I think?)
- daliusd 13y ago
  It is so easy to forget that HN has people from very different parts of the world. I guess that technique described above will not work in Finland's winter at all.

parasight 13y ago

Too much of anything is usually bad for health. You can even exercise too much. So I don't think standing all day is the best solution. With adjustable desks it is pretty easy to alternate your working position during the day.

aaron695 13y ago

OK people it's pretty simple. The scientific evidence is you can not undo the damage from sitting extended periods by exercise or anything else known. Current scientific evidence is you can only not sit. Like all things there is some science that says hey maybe it's not true but the trend is going towards not sitting.

awjr 13y ago

I would strongly suggest anyone looking at this and saying they don't have the time to invest in this to also consider the mental benefits that exercise brings. I don't feel I have time (which I know is wrong) and I particularly do not like gyms, but I cycle to work (2 miles) and on the way home I'll take a detour and add an extra 5-10 miles to my trip home. It clears the cobwebs. Cycling can be very meditative as well. I am extremely lucky to be living in a place that allows me to do this on car free routes (Bath->Bristol cycle path and the Two Tunnels Circuit). If you live within 12 miles (and potentially up to 20 miles) of where you work (about an hour of easy riding), you should consider 'building' exercise into your commute. Even if it's twice a week to begin with. Be crazy and park your car 5 miles from work and cycle in from there and build it up. FYI before starting this I weighed about 310lb and have got myself down to 275lb within a year without focusing too much on what I eat.

deanproxy 13y ago
Indeed. I completely understand feeling like there isn't enough time to do it. Other than my 8-10 hour days at work, I have a teenage daughter, a wife and two dogs I have to attend to. I practice guitar daily, practice martial arts weekly, kayak regularly, read/study daily for my job, started learning more about F.A.C.S and Body Language and like to get in some gaming every now and then with the daughter. I've found that I have at least 30 minutes I can spare even with that load. It's not much, but it's better than nothing sometimes. It's awesome you can find the time with your cycling! Keep it up!
- adwf 13y ago
  "If you want something done, ask a busy person to do it." I guess the rule about time management applies even when asking yourself to do something.
  - laichzeit0 13y ago
    Reminds me of something I read from Arnold Swazenegger: "While on maneuvers, Schwarzenegger and his fellow soldiers would use the hot spots (areas of metal over the tank’s engine) as a makeshift cooking stove, grilling up steaks and frying eggs. The eventual Mr. Universe continued his bodybuilding training even while off base, having stowed his workout equipment (plate weights, barbells, and a collapsible bench) in the tank’s tool storage areas." In his book he talks about getting up an hour earlier than everyone else so he could get a training session in during his military service. Talk about "making time" for something.

scotty79 13y ago

What happens if I already have a scoliosis and I spend 15 years or so siting at desk for 12 or more hours a day and I don't exercise? Absolutely nothing. Provided that I eat appropriately to my activity and my chairs are always somewhat uncomfortable. But if I spend a year working from chair as deeply reclined and comfortable (and position fixing) as this one: http://www.healthyback.com/products/Humantouch/Pc095-perfect-chair-electric-recliner/174 http://www.healthyback.com/products/Humantouch/Pc095-perfect... I get back pains because small muscles around my spine get weak and can be overstretched and damaged when I lift a fridge or something or just twist rapidly in some unusual direction.

scotty79 13y ago

Standing, sitting. It's all so tiring. Why we don't have chairs in which you could float submerged in pen of small balls that have similar density as your body?

matho 13y ago

I would guess the author already knows this, but kayaking is strongly associated with shoulder injuries/dislocations. Be careful, dude!

danboarder 13y ago

My work focus and overall health have really improved since I started running. I started running casually a few years ago but began to notice a real difference when I began training for a half-marathon with a local team. The training only required a couple half-hour runs during the week and a longer run with the group on Saturday mornings. Having a goal to run a real race and support of team runs motivated me to follow through and I lost about 40lbs over the course of training. Since then I have run the full LA Marathon and in a couple of months I will be running the Chicago Marathon, and I can honestly say I'm in the best shape of my life. I never was a runner before but I can say I am one now. It's not the running itself though, I think it's having a training goal and a team that supports you that can make it work. (btw my training group is Team World Vision, which has groups around the USA that run for causes). I would suggest the same result can come from biking, Crossfit, or other workout program where you have a clear goal and a group that supports your effort.

plg 13y ago

Swimming is awesome. The overhead can be significant (finding a pool with lap swim hours amenable to your schedule) but the equipment cost is minimal ($20 speedo) and it's amazing exercise. I also find the time in the water to be a soothing break from the outside world.

holri 13y ago

3 x 1h exercises a week during 50 years is approx. a year lifetime. It is likely that if you do this you add more than one healthy year to your lifetime. Therefore exercises are saving life time.

TureMasing 13y ago

COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS DISCUSSION BELOW. Spare yourself 76 more or less useless comments and STOP HERE. You sit. That's it. There is almost nothing you can do about it. It's called work. Anyway, it's NOT dangerous. Get a coffee, go to the men's room, get lunch, stand for a while, go to the silent reading room... That's automatic and stops you from being seated more than an hour at a stretch. Add 30 minutes of walking every day (7 minutes to the office, 7 minutes home, 7 minutes to get lunch, 7 minutes to get back and then maybe to and from a meeting) and you should be OK as long as you don't stuff yourself with cheeseburgers and fries everyday. If you on top of that add 4 hours of weight lifting (actually 1 hour lifting and 3 hours resting) you can get extremely fit; Gladiator contender or Fear factor kind of fit. Like I am. Also, don't forget intermittent fasting everyday 16:8-style.

taber1 13y ago
With that kind of logic, most discussions would be meaningless. Basically we are all dying from a disease called "life". The point is how you want to die: either miserably from chronic illnesses brought by long years of bad habits or gracefully from old age. However, there are no guarantees, but if you don't buy a ticket, you have zero chances of winning. Anyway, eating "healthy" does not beat exercise.

gonzo 13y ago

This is why I installed a gym at work.

rusabd 13y ago
our HR is concerned that squat rack can hurt someone

biggfoot 13y ago

The only reason people don't exercise is because they don't. I don't know of a genuine reason to not be able to spare 20 minutes a day. If you can do nothing else, run for 10 minutes and do 50 push ups, that's all it takes.

stiff 13y ago

What is missing in the discussion of this and the previous article is some reflection on physiology and why could prolonged sitting possibly be bad for you in the first place. One must know that that there are many processes in the human body that can only be executed efficiently when we move, like for example transfer of lymph or movement of digested food through the intestines (involuntary smooth muscle contractions are also involved in both processes but skeletal muscle contractions make it much more effective). Problems with the gastrointestinal tract, like not visiting the toilet often enough, have been linked to a great amount of diseases, so this is something to be concerned about. Hence doing sports after 8 hours of sitting will not necessarily counterbalance all the negative effects involved. I am not so sure working standing would be better, either. I think a good practical recommendation that is great in many aspects is to take a short break every 2 hours or so and get just 5 minutes of exercise done, just enough to get the heart beating a bit faster and the blood circulating, it can be just basic stretching or isometric contractions, whatever you are able to easily execute in your office environment. It makes the work day much more productive, too.

shicky 13y ago
seems to be the key point missing in all of this, exercising with a biomechanically screwed body = more problems. Though I certainly agree most just need to get off their butt and do something, I've had 7years of hip issues because my body essentially cheats deep hip flexion and I need to re-learn the correct way.
graeme 13y ago
I agree. I exercise, chiefly barbell lifts. They do help quite a bit, a bunch of chronic pain went away. But how I work matters too. I feel better if I take breaks and move around, or if I alternate between standing and sitting. And my hip flexors are worse if I sit all the time.
jakebellacera 13y ago
> I am not so sure working standing would be better, either. I'm curious if standing desks make taking breaks much more accessible. Like many others, I use a program that basically notifies me every 30 minutes to take a 2 minute break. Even then, I find myself "skipping" them often as I'm typically in the middle of intense focus and I honestly feel like it's too much effort to get up and walk around at times.

leothekim 13y ago

Moving to a standing desk is not "futile". For myself, a standing desk prevents me from reinjuring my lower back and potentially missing out on a couple days of work due to back spasms. Others use it to help them with repetitive stress injury. And how did I injure my back? Exercising with too much weights at the gym!

neverminder 13y ago
Usually it's not too much weight, but the wrong posture/trajectory of the exercise that causes injuries.

Fizzadar 13y ago

Couldn't agree more with the standing desks - no doubt they bring some improvement, but they do seem more like the 'in-thing' and 'hip' rather than genuinely life changing. As it always has been, regular (even if short) exercise sessions are a key part in healthy living.

jfb 13y ago
The thing I like about standing desks is that they encourage better behavior than a sitting desk -- they're not by themselves anything like a panacea, but it's a lot harder to be completely sessile when you're standing up. The style of working at a standing desk, I find, is conducive to taking short breaks, walking around, even moving to a chair to sit and read or think.
Dewie 13y ago
Do you think that people just all of a sudden decided that standing might kind of be a cool thing for their circulation or whatever? If it's a "hip" thing, it's probably because it's inspired by stuff like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ Which states that sitting a lot is bad, even if you are an individual who exercises. And this does not imply that people want to replace standing with exercising, which is a false dichotomy proposed in the article.

mironathetin 13y ago

I agree that software development as a job works only, if you exercise regularly. During the last 15 years, I swim regularly, twice a week, usually 2km freestyle. And I run once a week, 12 km. I do this with my wife and we do it before work. We always insisted to get the time in the morning. In summer, when the outdoor pools are open, we swim outside, although the pools open only at 9 am. We aren't at our desk before 10:30 in that case (once or twice a week). I won't accept a work that doesn't give me this freedom. In the evening, the kids are at home and we cannot leave. And all the lazy office guys drift in the pool and this is annoying, if you want to swim. I am 48 now and have zero health issues. No back problems, no blood pressure problems, not an ounce overweight. Same with my wife. I can only whole-heartedly encourage everyone to do the same. It sets a standard for software developers and life is so much more enjoyable.

tootie 13y ago

When I worked in a "war room" one of the guys got us on a pushup routine. 2-3 times a day everyone stops what they're doing and does pushups. Start with as many as you can do (even if it's 5) and just do it a few times a day and you'll build up strength really quick. The guy who started it was about 40 and pretty heavy. We had two mid-30s moms in our room who got in on it and worked up to 20 pushups (from their feet, not knees) in a few weeks. Sadly, the band broke up after a while and moved to different areas, but it was pretty awesome while it lasted.

peterwwillis 13y ago

My humble advice: Don't be an armchair health & fitness expert. Read up on it for intellectual stimulation, but don't expect to learn any magical secrets to being in shape or healthy. All the magical secrets have been known for a long time, and they're really, really boring. You should do whatever makes you happy [within reason]. You should probably not drink 10 sodas and 5 bags of chips a day. But if you feel like having one, fuck it, life is short. If you feel like standing at your desk, go to town! Don't expect it to fix your problems. Just enjoy yourself. If you feel like lifting weights, do that too, but if you don't feel like it, ..... you get the picture. Be active, be healthy-ish, but in terms that you can enjoy in life. Some people like dancing. Some people like running. Some people like kicking the shit out of a heavy bag. That's the only real secret to health & fitness: learning to enjoy it and be happy. (Personally, the only thing that made me adopt an active lifestyle was group exercise. Now that i'm more used to the routines I work out by myself or do sports. But if you find yourself having trouble getting started, try signing up for a group class with people who seem nice and a good instructor)

enraged_camel 13y ago
>>But if you feel like having one, fuck it, life is short. Yes, life is short. Therefore you should avoid things that will make it even shorter. I always hear stuff like "whatever man, you only live once." It seems so irrational to use that to justify bad habits. If you only live once, should you not try to increase the length and quality of that life by trying to be in the best health possible?
- boucher 13y ago
  People have different yardsticks for quality.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Yes, life is short. Therefore you should avoid things that will make it even shorter. The second doesn't derive from the first. If anything, "life is short, so don't obsess about its duration" is a better guideline. >I always hear stuff like "whatever man, you only live once." It seems so irrational to use that to justify bad habits. If you only live once, should you not try to increase the length and quality of that life by trying to be in the best health possible? "Bad habits" are some of the most quality time people get to have.

phaus 13y ago

The author seems to miss the facts that spurred the trend for standing desks in the first place. Whether you exercise or not, sitting down all day dramatically increases your chances of dying from heart disease. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sitting/AN02082 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sitting/AN02082

zwieback 13y ago

Enjoyed reading this - I didn't expect that anyone could be serious about the art and craft of window tinting! However, deanproxy seems like the kind of guy who can tackle anything and throw in a few ounces of obsession to make it work. For the regular Joe standing desks might just be the one tiny thing they can do. They've become super popular at cubicleland here at HP and our facilities people will come and set them up for free.

crazygringo 13y ago

For anyone interested... if you want good posture, if you want to really be in shape, there are a million fads out there, but the best book by far is "Starting Strength" [1]. (It's also one of the best-selling on Amazon.) It essentially focuses on just the squat, deadlift, press, bench press, and (later) power clean, devoting around forty pages to each, and explains why you really don't need much else. They're quite difficult to get right, but the incredibly in-depth explanations will especially appeal to programmers who like understanding how things work. I say this just because the book completely changed the way I approach the gym, and it mirrors what the article author says about the exercises he used. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738/ http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp...

krisgee 13y ago
They also have a youtube channel where Rip coaches all of the lifts in the book and gives advice on where to go when you aren't progressing and what to do in terms of accessory movements. http://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo http://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo
rfnslyr 13y ago
I can vouch for Starting Strength. If your body sucks, read this book. A lot of it will go over your head, and you don't need to read every single page, but once you start, really focus on nailing the three lifts. I went from 45lb on the bar for all lifts to: 350 squat 475 deadlift 260 bench 290 powerclean 180 snatch 225 c&j 315 front squat (the last 4 lifts are because I starting getting seriously into pure olympic lifting). In under a year. I didn't use any drugs, but what I did do was post a massive wall-wide calendar on my wall, and in each day were checkboxes for: daily 5g creatine, daily sleep , daily macros (protein/fat/carb), daily fish oil. I used a calorie counting application to make sure that without fail, every single day I got 300g protein, 400g carbs, around 150g fat (300x4 + 400x4 + 150x9 = 4100~ calories). I gained about 90lb, gained a ton of strength, then did a 2000 calorie cut still while powerlifting and then sprinting twice a day every day to cut weight fast. Absolutely changed my life. I unlocked the greatest super power of all: controlling how I feel day in and day out. No more irritation, no more snappy emotions, no more all nighters and wasting 2 days recouping. I am able to put on weight whenever I want, and cut it whenever I want. It's really incredible the shift you notice when you nail your diet and exercise down to a solid routine. You are much more stable throughout your daily tasks. In the end, paying extreme attention to the trifecta and literally never once straying from it for a year (sleep/nutrition/exercise), it locked me into a proper mindset that I am able to sustain and not wane off of. Meaning I wouldn't have a new goal every single day, I wouldn't waste one day feeling extremely down in the dumps like I used to (used to be suicidal/suffer from extreme depression). No episodes, just focus. Start getting strong, it will absolutely change your life and empower you.

aimatt 13y ago

What happens if you stand at a standing desk and exercise? It's going well for me. $10 in lumber to convert my normal sitting desk.

roin 13y ago

I'm glad that the author is having a good experience with his sit all day and frequently exercise plan. But his conclusion that standing desks provide very little benefit to your overall health is based on his sample size of one, never actually using a standing desk, and then extrapolating that "result" to the rest of the human race. The only useful conclusion in this post has nothing to do with standing desks. It is simply that exercise will help you feel good and improve your health.

uberstuber 13y ago

If you sit all day the couch stretch [1] helps a lot to undo the shortening in your hip flexors. 2 min a day each side. Really painful if you sit a lot. Kelly Starrett has a lot of great information about mobility. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-ZX1QMTdAC4#t=126 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-ZX...

moo 13y ago

I think a previous HN article of a 10 minute routine of body weight exercises is a better program for many than a weight lifting routine for cardio and maintaining body weight. I think body weight exercises are often overlooked. Pullups, situps, pushups, pistol squats. Also add a jump rope for little weight, portability, and requires little space. I don't see too many fat runners, gymnasts, or cyclists. Power lifters, Olympic weight lifters often have a lot of fat with muscle. I like a pyramid type routine of starting with 1 pullup, 2 pushups, 3 situps, and repeat doing multiples ( ie then 2 pullups, 4 pushups, 6 situps, ...). For jumping rope remember to alternate the weight bearing foot like a boxer, jumping with both feet together takes more energy and I find lactic acid builds up faster.

ulisesrmzroche 13y ago

I like to train in mixed martial arts. Judo/Boxing/BJJ/etc. It's a good way to get in shape that also offers a steep intellectual and physical challenge. At least, they're both similar in that people usually compliment each other on how much technique they have. I've noticed a correlation with programmers that train. The crazier the languages they like the better grapplers they are, yet DevOps types lean toward striking. Don't think it makes any sense though.

ShinyObject 13y ago

I agree with the points he makes and have had a similar experience. I have worked desk jobs with minimal movement for the last 10 years and getting into resistance training plus cardio has made a huge difference in the amount of energy I have, mood, posture, etc. One statement I take issue with is this line "I put on 40 pounds of muscle one year alone...". This is essentially impossible barring a malfunctioning thyroid. I don't doubt that he put on 40 pounds of weight in a year but I can guarantee it wasn't all muscle. If you are 17-20 and finishing up puberty, using anabolic steroids, working out incredibly hard 5-6 days per week, and eating 4000+ calories per day every day _maybe_ you could put on 30 pounds of muscle in a year. If you are in your late 20s early 30s as he was, not using steroids (I assume), and working out hard your max muscle gain in a year might be around 20lbs. For a normal 30 year old working out 3x a week it's closer to 12-15lbs/year after newbie-gains have ended. I say this not to discourage but rather to give people realistic expectations, I believe the most common reason people fail at exercise is they are overly ambitious and burn out quickly when they don't look like Hulk overnight. If someone was looking for a good starting point for fitness I recommend scooby1961 on youtube, he has been around a long time and has a ton of videos on fitness and nutrition aimed at newbies, and takes the perspective of an engineer looking at the body as a machine. As someone who has been into this for a while my advice would be: 1. Start small and ramp up, if you do nothing currently start with walking 20 minutes per day. 2. Do not spend a bunch of money on fancy equipment, like all hobbies until you get deeper into the game you won't even know what you should get. 3. Avoid injury, esp your lower back and shoulders. The best way to do this is perfect form. Always have perfect form, cheating with bad form to get one extra rep is only cheating yourself, the goal is to work the muscle to failure, not hit some number. 4. If you want to do a home gym you can work 95% of your muscle groups with dumbbells, a barbell, and a pullup bar. The only thing you cannot work out well with these is your quads. For that you need a leg press machine or a squat cage (ie: a gym). 5. Most suppliments are unproven snake oil that waste your money at best, and at worst destroy your kidneys/liver or give you heavy metal poisoning. The only supplements I consider proven effective with minimal side-effects are caffeine (pre-workout) and creatine. I will not recommend any brands but look for ones that are quality tested by independent labs (like USP). 6. Cardio with resistance (weights) is best, but if you only have time for one make it cardio. This is more important for your long term health. 7. Sticking to a routine is not about will-power, it's about habits. The first time you work out with weights it's intimidating as hell and you feel like a bumbling idiot, you do that 2 or 3 times a week for a few weeks and it feels like a chore, you do it for a year and it happens on auto pilot, you don't even think about it.

Dewie 13y ago

> To me, this has always seemed a bit futile as well as overkill. You're still sedentary. You're providing very little benefit to your overall well being and it's simply yet another way that people are trying to get something for nothing when it comes to health . I've read a lot of the examples of it's positive effects. I've read a lot of the raving reviews of people that do this, but I ultimately come to the same conclusion every time I read this stuff... exercise a little bit every day. It's healthier than standing all day, it's free, doesn't require expensive furniture, doesn't require you to beg your boss for something expensive and it's something you should be doing anyway. I'm tired of this type of condescension. I guess because the author writes to a community of programmers, or nerds, or whatever, he feels that he can address them as if they are all sloths. I have not had the impression in the overall debate about this standing/sitting business that people are saying that they are going over to a standing desk in order to not exercise. One can perfectly well imagine that the people that are going over to a standing desk because they think that it brings benefits that are a good complement to an overall healthy lifestyle, like eating and exercising properly (I notice that you say that you don't eat healthily, deanproxy... does this mean that you willingly do this because you think that an exercise routine can fully compensate for a bad diet...?). If someone vows to try to have better posture in their everyday life, does that mean that they think that it is a replacement for something like a good exercise routing for the back muscles? No. So this is standing/sitting contra exercising is a false dichotomy. In fact, this whole standing/sitting discussion was partly propelled by studies that showed that sitting a lot was bad for ones health, also for active people [0] : > Even when adults meet physical activity guidelines, sitting for prolonged periods can compromise metabolic health. To turn deanproxy's baseless condescenscion towards "standers" and their supposed lazyness on its head: deanproxy is simply trying to rationalize his sedentary habits by asserting that having discrete blocks of activity time during the day counteracts his sedentary existence for the rest of the day. To get the whole picture and in order to be in a position to assert that standing is inconsequential, deanproxy should also have experience with a lifestyle in which he exercises and stands/walks/is somewhat active in his day job. But it does not seem that he does. Perhaps not too surprising when his whole argument rests on standing CONTRA exercising in your free time. And what all of this shows is that the zealots (imaginary or not) who vow to NOT exercise BECAUSE they stand during their day jobs are leading an inferior lifestyle because deanproxy exercises and is able to do WITHOUT standing (and eating healthily... ). So deanproxy can claim victory here, the victory of being an exercise-zealot over the standing-zealots. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404815/

codersteve 13y ago

For those of you that are interested, you might want to look up "Convict Conditioning". http://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditioning-Weakness-Using-Survival-Strength/dp/0938045768 http://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditioning-Weakness-Using-Su...