10 ms·
An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight
- grahamburger 3mo agoOof, that's a bad day. I've had cable stolen from a tower site like that, but it was cable we had spooled out for installation the day before, not in active use.
- AndrewKemendo 3mo agoThat’s wild. Radio transmission power is no joke. I replaced the 100W FM transmitter on our college radio tower and got in front of the emitter beam for like 10 seconds and my head rung for a week. The amps and power aren’t to be messed with. I can’t even imagine messing with 100K line that’s a solid block of copper
- asdefghyk 3mo agoVery lucky not to have been killed by the high voltages or intense RF energy and or suffer severe burns / blindness ....
- AndrewKemendo 3mo agoCome to think of it it wasn’t even 10 seconds, more like 2 or 3 before my ears and eyes were burning
- MBCook 3mo agoLiterally.
- sidewndr46 3mo agoYou think exposure to 100 watts at ~100 MHz is going to cause your head to ring?
- fc417fc802 3mo agoAre you saying it won't? What sort of RF power density in the FM range can the human body tolerate without noticeable effect?
- sidewndr46 3mo ago100 watts at 100 MHz is so low that if you spent an entire lifetime in proximity to it, you would never notice. At 100 MHz I am unsure if transmitter even exists that can could cause harm indirectly via RF exposure. The FCC has very tight guidelines for FM transmitters at this frequency. This is just an abundance of caution. The actual story as presented here is obviously fake: "I replaced the 100W FM transmitter on our college radio tower and got in front of the emitter beam for like 10 seconds and my head rung for a week". It's unlikely, but possible that the transmitter is mounted on the tower. In practice, no one does this. They use coax at ~100 MHz since it is so cheap and easy. Let's just assume the transmitter is mounted on the tower. The power cutoff is going to be at the bottom of the tower. You turn it off beforehand because you don't want to get electrocuted inadvertently. You don't disconnect equipment while energized. The phrase 'emitter beam' is also a dead giveaway. That phrase is only used in particle accelerator and other radiation sources.
- AndrewKemendo 3mo agoCall Dave West who is still a radio engineer in CO and was with me on the roof in 2006 if you care so much about it
- 7402 3mo agoI'm surprised. Consulting an exposure limit calculator (https://www.arrl.org/rf-exposure-calculator https://www.arrl.org/rf-exposure-calculator) suggests a safe distance (FCC controlled exposure limit) for continuous (30 min) exposure from a 100w FM transmitter antenna at 100 MHz with, say, 5 dB gain is around 5 ft. For a brief exposure it's much less. Amateur radio operators need to know this, since 100w is quite a typical power level, and they have bands (50 MHz and 144 MHz) not far from commercial FM. How far away from the antenna were you? The antenna is usually far away from the transmitter that you were replacing.
- AndrewKemendo 3mo agoMaybe like 1-2 feet away i was manually adjusting something on the top of a 8 foot radio tower on vandenburg hall at USAFA.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- legitronics 3mo agoHow is this person alive? That’s a terrifying amount of relatively high frequency energy. And pressurized gasses of some sort.
- defrost 3mo agoMy first thought also .. possibly pulled a breaker rendering cable inert, or perhaps rigged a remote cutting tool - drop saw poised to cut on a long extension cord ready to be turn on ... (problematic). I'm leaning toward killed the current first somehow, but very location detail dependant.
- cucumber3732842 3mo agoYou can buy high voltage gear online cheap. Just this one job would pay for the complete setup if you're buying cheap brands.
- Halian 3mo agoI bet it's Vevor. They make everything.
- CamperBob2 3mo agoThe transmitter will have a VSWR trip for just this sort of eventuality. It would likely be damaged severely if allowed to operate into an open circuit for more than a brief moment.
- api 3mo agoMeth induced superhero powers?
- helterskelter 3mo agoDarwin awards should give this guy an honorable mention.
- CamperBob2 3mo agoThe alleged perpetrator — Paul Crisp Nominative determinism in action.
- fwipsy 3mo agoOr subverted in this case, I suppose. Can't have been very crisped if he could flee from the police.
- arthurcolle 3mo agoany paulcrisp on HN want to discuss?
- trick-or-treat 3mo agoReads like a super-villain origin story. Welp, I guess he doesn't have to worry about getting the electric chair.
- asdefghyk 3mo agoThe photo shows a cable ( with insulation ) that looks at least 4 inches thick ... (from a distance )
- tedd4u 3mo agoProbably something like this: HJ9HP-50 Heliax High-Power Air-Dielectric Coax https://www.alldataresource.com/Commscope-HJ9HP-50-HJ9-50-HELIAX-High-Power-Air-Dielectric-Coaxial-Cable-corrugated-copper-5-in-black-PE-jacket_p_376121.html https://www.alldataresource.com/Commscope-HJ9HP-50-HJ9-50-HE...
- dylan604 3mo agoI'm looking for a Kalshi bet that the perp is a tweaker. They say it could cost $70,000 - $100,000 to repair, but I also wonder if they'll have to refund ad buys while they are running at 10 watts and such reduced coverage. Makes me also wonder what kind of insurance broadcasters might have for such incidents when they can't broadcast.
- ben-gy 3mo agoThis feels like force majeur from a contract perspective…
- CamperBob2 3mo agoIs it too soon to talk about regulating the $#@* out of scrap-metal dealers?
- SoftTalker 3mo agoThey already are. You need to show ID to sell scrap metal. The thieves use a fence.
- CamperBob2 3mo agoWhere does the fence sell the scrap? Somebody is buying it.
- MBCook 3mo agoSame as stolen TVs, catalytic converters, and anything else. There’s always someone who likes the money/discount more than morals/the law at the next step in the chain. Somewhere.
- cucumber3732842 3mo ago>There’s always someone who likes the money/discount more than morals/the law at the next step in the chain. Somewhere. That's every scrap yard and most small businesses. Nothing makes you hate the law and it's enforcers, peddlers and proponents like being on the business end of regulations and a scrap yard probably has at least half a dozen agencies they are subject to. Heck, I bet half of these guys would aerosolize radioactive waste out of spite if they thought the wind would blow it into a "good school district".
- gacgacgac 3mo agoFurthermore, going after scrap metal sites makes an important business harder and fails to be inquisitive enough about the reasons why the thefts happen at all. Maybe we should try to understand why people are stealing copper. (Presumably poverty, drug addiction, lack of opportunity)
- aeonik 3mo agoWorking backwards from clues in the article, thief maybe stole 200-400 ft of wire. Assuming between 3-1/8″ - 6-1/8″ diameter. Somewhere between $1,360 - $6,400 of scrap value. $70k-$100k to repair... Absurd.
- sowbug 3mo agoThat's the usual car stereo theft economics: cause $1,000 of damage to sell a $100 radio for $10.
- m463 3mo agoprobably $10 of meth to harm a body so that it eventually needs $50k of medical work, or $100k of dental work
- cevn 3mo ago10 dollars? Who's your meth guy?
- trympet 3mo agoGP is talking out of his ass - he’s probably not up to speed on meth economics like you and me.
- NewJazz 3mo agoMethenomics say that you can step on product however much you need to reach the demanded price point.
- DetroitThrow 3mo agoHN constantly undervalues meth and this has been called out since at least 2009. Horrible.
- launcelott 3mo ago
- rmason 3mo agoIn Detroit copper theft was an epidemic a few years back. Once the easy stuff in abandoned houses was gone thieves went further afield. . A few brave thieves went after power substations. For some thieves a lack of knowledge was fatal. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/12/29/detroit-public-lighting-bodies/989761001/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z114301e1169xxv114301d--48--b--48--&gca-ft=197&gca-ds=sophi https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017...
- mikeweiss 3mo agoWait a second, I just realized something... how much would the station be paying in electricity to transmit at 100,000 watts 24/7 ? Their electric bill must be like $200,000 per year??
- RF_Enthusiast 3mo agoIt’s 100,000 watts ERP with a 6 bay antenna. The higher gain antenna means the transmitter output power would be much less (about 35 kw), although at still extremely dangerous levels to mess with.
- Vaslo 3mo agoThe trash thief will never be able to replace that. I guess insurance will help but that’s just another excuse for them to raise rates. That thief should be indentured until he pays it back in full.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- geerlingguy 3mo agoCutting a live transmission line is incredibly foolish, for many reasons, but I'm guessing the station has a modern(ish) solid state transmitter, which has great foldback protection. I've seen (and personally tested) AM transmitters dead shorting, and within less than a second (probably less than 100ms, but I haven't measured precisely) it will fold back on a dead short to like 1% of its operating power, lower if it still detects a short. This is to protect the (even more expensive) transmitter from lightning strikes or other weird eventualities (like the line leaking pressurized nitrogen, used to prevent shorts from moisture mainly). But replacing that 3" transmission line is not cheap or fast. Usually the runs are planned and designed, and every elbow / connection has losses that are accounted for.
- Schlagbohrer 3mo agoThe article mentions it will cost around $160 per foot to replace, totalling $70k to 100k
- ErroneousBosh 3mo agoI know a guy who works for a major broadcast site company here in the UK, who caught some people up at a remote transmitter site by blocking their pickup in with his van. They admitted they were there to steal copper scrap. He gave them about 100kg of scrap aluminium (decommissioned aerials) that had been subject to the usual "We'll come and get it next week, next week, oh so busy this week, how about next week, maybe the week after?" from the people that were supposed to pick them up. Then he offered to give them a tour of the transmission building. "See that?" he said, pointing to some nice thick copper cabling, "if you touched that you'd die, instantly. And see that over there? Yeah, if you touch that, you'd die. That stuff there, too, kill you if you even went near it." Then he pointed out the big polished copper waveguide going up to the main TX stack, think in terms of a thick copper 4" sewer pipe leading out through the building. "See that, know what would happen if you touched *that*?" "We'd die?" "Naaaaaw, of course you wouldn't die! Your arms would vapourise looooong before your heart stopped!"
- userbinator 3mo agoThis isn't just any regular copper cable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable#Hard_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable#Hard_line
- silexia 3mo agoThe criminal will be out in a few months to strike again I'm sure.
- Ylpertnodi 3mo agoSo, prison doesn't work?
- silexia 3mo agoPrison works if they never get out, see El Salvador's successes. Death penalty works too.
- cpncrunch 3mo agoLooks like this guy has a history of drug trafficking: https://wchstv.com/news/local/deputies-boyd-county-man-charged-after-selling-drugs-to-deputy https://wchstv.com/news/local/deputies-boyd-county-man-charg...
- cpncrunch 3mo agoOddly downvoted?!
- bArray 3mo agoI'm surprised nothing more serious happened. There was obviously a serious electrocution risk, but I think that is the easiest bit to deal with. 100kW of radio waves, whilst non-ironising, can still microwave you. With 100kW there could have also been a serious reflection back to the transmitter. This guy cutting the cable is far luckier than he will ever know.
- ordu 3mo agoI like your typo. Seriously, non-ironising.
- bArray 3mo agoSomewhat ionical.
- jcalvinowens 3mo ago[dead]
- elzbardico 3mo agoHow the fuck is the thief alive????
- silisili 3mo agoKentucky for some reason has an epidemic of this. My father lives in the middle of nowhere in a perfectly safe area, yet still at least once or twice a year someone steals the phone or power lines leading to outages. I live in a similar area in another state and it's nearly unheard of. I wish they'd up the severity of these crimes - people willing to damage infrastructure for everyone else just to make drug money are not conducive to a functional society.
- ProAm 3mo agoIt's meth.
- Loughla 3mo agoWe live in a very rural, incredibly safe area. You can always tell when someone else gets hooked on meth. Their place goes to shit, step 1. Their kids get dirty, step 2. You start to see things like car batteries or tools disappear from nearby farms, step 3. They die or go to jail after trying to steal something big, like electric lines or even train rails in one instance, step 4. At least with heroine, they tend to just keep to themselves. Meth makes sure they have the energy and drive to really fuck with other people.
- phainopepla2 3mo agoMy apartment was broken into once and I knew it was a meth head because they color coordinated my closet before they left. Turned out to be someone I knew (on meth)
- onemoresoop 3mo agoWhat do you mean by color coordinated the closet?
- Insanity 3mo ago+1, and how does that relate to meth?
- fortran77 3mo agoThat's 100,000 watts "ERP"- the actual power in the transmission line can be as low as 5,000 watts. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_radiated_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_radiated_power
- exabrial 3mo agoSigh. Can these thieves figure out how much copper and gold is in Flock cameras?
- ApolloFortyNine 3mo ago>Total repair costs, he estimates, are somewhere between $70,000 and $100,000 This is always so depressing to read, especially when you realize the thief did the damage only to gain a couple hundred dollars in copper. It's just a massive net loss for society to deal with this. It's a similar problem places have with people destroying ac units to steal some small amount of copper. Theft is always bad, but this blatant net negative for the world theft is the kind of thing that makes you wonder about societies long term.
- liampulles 3mo agoThis kind of thing is totally routine here in South Africa. Probably about a third of power cuts in my area these days are due to some kind of cable or electrical theft.
- nosmokewhereiam 3mo agoIs just setting up a mixcloud accountafter this a viable solution?...100k for the ant...
- welcome_dragon 3mo agoIs this not an old story? I seen to recall hearing it awhile ago
- kazinator 3mo agoKudos to Kirtner and Adkins for retaining their counterpoise through this enraging incident.