19 ms·

Just want to drive by and mention - a friend told me to play DDLC and I was highly skeptical given the anime pin-up girl art style. I eventually gave in and gav

Just want to drive by and mention - a friend told me to play DDLC and I was highly skeptical given the anime pin-up girl art style. I eventually gave in and gave it a shot. It's an amazing "playable story" unlike anything I have ever played. Super creative and well worth the couple hours it takes to play. I think it could use a few trigger warnings and it should be rated PG-13 / R, but there's stuff on Netflix 10x more disturbing so I don't quite grok the Google push back on this one.

oceansky 5mo ago
This genre of games are called visual novels. Doki Doki was created with the Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine by the way.
- ryukoposting 5mo ago
  And it's also one of the most impressive displays of RenPy's capabilities you'll ever see. Plenty of games do amazing things with ren'py that you wouldn't think were possible just by looking at the dialogue DSL. Maps, HUDs, minigames, incredibly dynamic pathways through the game. But DDLC takes it to a different level, partly by looking so "normal" on its surface. In college I made some spare cash writing Ren'py games for some creatives online who had the writing and illustration chops, but needed programming help. At the time, DDLC was the model for great game design in Ren'Py. There are plenty of more technically impressive Ren'py games nowadays, but DDLC is still a terrific example of technical sophistication facilitating the story. Ren'py is awesome by the way. A tour de force of software design, in my opinion.
  - crashabr 5mo ago
    Any examples of other impressive Ren'py showcases?
    - ryukoposting 5mo ago
      I personally helped develop a game with an entire inventory/crafting system, and an isometric map. Final product never saw the light of day, sadly. People have made some pretty slick turn-based combat systems. Some deck builders, others more spellcasting/mana oriented. And it's renpy so like 80% of the games are straight up porn, so I'm not naming a single one here lol.
    - TheDong 5mo ago
      "Analogue: A Hate Story" and its sequel do some technically interesting things, and they both also have interesting stories, I can recommend them. http://ahatestory.com/ http://ahatestory.com/
    - wincy 5mo ago
      I really enjoyed Roadwarden. Interesting take on an old fantasy genre and gave me “this is ancient history” vibes. I’m not usually into visual novels but beat this game. It’s available for under $3 right now, I am showing 20 hours played, totally worth it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/
      - brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
        Wait a minute, Roadwarden was made in RenPy? That's awesome, I never would have guessed.
      - ryukoposting 5mo ago
        Wow, that's a very pretty game. Ren'py games usually have a certain, um, sheen to them, and this doesn't have that at all.
    - dataveg 5mo ago
      Misericorde is an amazing visual novel available on Steam or itch. All built by the author (Xeecee) in Ren’py - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1708110/Misericorde_Volume_One/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1708110/Misericorde_Volum...
  - torginus 5mo ago
    Isn't RenPy basically a game engine under the hood? So if you have the programming chops, you can make anything with Python.
  - mcmoor 5mo ago
    I've played it, but what's impressive about this game (technically)? I don't remember its implementation being anything special as opposed its plot.
    - JoshTriplett 5mo ago
      It does a lot of screwing with the interface and game data in ways most VNs do not.
    - dchftcs 5mo ago
      I think it's mainly in relation to the constraints of the game engine, and also that the game engine being flexible enough to enable the gimmicks. I haven't played DDLC and probably never will, but from what I've read about it, like games with similar core themes (not dating sim) it has some gimmicks that tend to stretch the capabilities of a closed-down game engine, sometimes requiring patches to the engine itself. In this case the game engine Renpy offers an extensive DSL that makes it easy to add story scenes, media and dialogues, but allows you to fall back to python to do some tricky things.
    - ryukoposting 5mo ago
      (SPOILERS) It breaks the fourth wall in unexpected, and deeply unsettling ways. As a gamer you take for granted that, at any moment, you can simply exit. The UI is a trustworthy boundary between the imagined world of a horror game, and the comfort of reality. In DDLC, you don't even feel safe on the title screen. Most ren'py games, even the very good ones, barely change the UI at all. Roadwarden doesn't look like a ren'py game at all... until you open the save menu, and then it looks exactly like a ren'py game. Having developed ren'py games, I can tell you why people avoid touching that part of the boilerplate code: it's the one part of ren'py where the abstractions aren't well thought out. It's very fragile. To me, that makes DDLC all the more impressive from a technical point of view. It warps and abuses the most rigid and uncooperative part of the engine, and to great narrative effect.
- samrus 5mo ago
  Yeah but its such a standout in there that i wouldnt even consider it part of that genre. It uses the same medium but does such crazy things with it that its nothing like any other visual novels
  - Polycryptus 5mo ago
    I really can't agree, there are so many great VNs out there and DDLC only really stands out in that it plays heavily to the English-speaking world's preconceived notions of VNs as "nothing more than simple dating simulators"
  - YurgenJurgensen 5mo ago
    DDLC is definitely not breaking its “baby’s first 電波ゲー” reputation in this thread.
senkora 5mo ago
The poems are pretty good too.
politelemon 5mo ago
TV shows have reached a point where the ratings are blurry and R content is becoming normalised and ubiquitous with little to no enforcement. Games are still seen as something children engage in despite the average gamers being adults.
- chocochunks 5mo ago
  Games have ratings in virtually every country. The commercial version of DDLC, DDLC Plus is rated M in North America for 17+. The original free version lacks a rating because it was a free indie game. And the website has the line "This game is not suitable for children or those who are easily disturbed."
surgical_fire 5mo ago
If you only played it once without knowing the ending, I strongly recommend a second playthrough. Some dialogues and poems have a wildly different meaning once you know things. Also, I fully recommend DDLP+ too. The extra stories don't have any real gameplay, but they are really good, and add.some depth to the characters.
- shawn_w 5mo ago
  I'm not sure I could tolerate a second play through. One part in particular that just goes on and on and on for what feels like forever is really tough to get through and resume the plot.
  - jquery 5mo ago
    That’s why every visual novel (well, almost every visual novel) have a skip function. I know exactly the stretch you’re talking about… I think. Just ctrl-skip through it.
    - shawn_w 5mo ago
      Wish HN markup had spoiler tags. Let's just say it involved spending quality time with Yuri? I played it on my Switch; not sure if it has a skip option.
      - jquery 5mo ago
        Yep, quality time with the bookworm. Usually on mobile devices like the Switch or Steam Deck, visual novels have a skip function if you hold one of the triggers.
Forgeties79 5mo ago
It’s hands down R to be clear lol but yes amazing experience.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
throwaway2046 5mo ago
The official website states on the front page: This game is not suitable for children or those who are easily disturbed.
- echelon 5mo ago
  We do not need our hyperscaler minders telling us what content we can and cannot consume. This ought to be grounds to litigate antitrust. This should not be happening. We need web-based app installs without scare walls ("downloading from the internet is dangerous"), without hidden settings menus to enable them ("Settings > Apps > Special app access > Install unknown apps"), and without any interference or meddling from the hyperscalers. Tyranny of defaults = 0.00001% of users will ever fall into these buckets = Google knows exactly the evil shit they're doing. Apple not even allowing it is almost less evil by contrast as they're not pretending. These devices are too important for two companies to lord over us and tell us what to do. I hope Lina Khan comes back, and I hope she has some absolute urgency next time. I also hope our pals in the EU and Asia put this shit to rest as well. No citizen of the world should have their devices cucking them like this. This is not what computing is supposed to be. (And let's not discount the fact that competition on these devices is in no way, shape, or form fair anymore. You're taxed to hell and back if you do distribution or outreach on these garrison states.) These our our devices, Google and Apple. You do not get to control what happens after we buy them. You are both monopolies. You are both allelopathic parasites. Invasive species that have outgrown your ecosystem and invaded all the other ones. Doing damage to everything you touch. The world needs a cleansing forest fire to restore healthy competition.
  - stavros 5mo ago
    This should already be illegal under the DMA. I don't know how Google is planning to get out of it.
    - echelon 5mo ago
      There hasn't been so much as a finger lifted against antitrust behavior since 2000. They feel as though they're invincible at this point.
KennyBlanken 5mo ago
> I think it could use a few trigger warnings There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that trigger warnings have a positive effect and growing evidence they are either ineffectual or actually negative.
- Anvoker 5mo ago
  If you've ever had trauma, especially recent, you'll appreciate well done content warnings. You don't want the dramatic plot twist to happen to be exactly the topic you've been trying to avoid so that you can slowly get better. If you've experienced a certain kind of trauma, it's not a matter willpower. It involves a loss of control over one's emotional response and thoughts which can be triggered by things that relate to your trauma. Don't knock on content warnings just because they lack rigorous evidence or because "trigger warnings" became the butt of jokes for a while. They have a genuine utility.
  - userbinator 5mo ago
    Teaching people to not let emotions get to them, and offending them to build up that immunity, used to be a normal part of life. I wonder what happened.
    - devmor 5mo ago
      People gained more exposure to eachother and realized it was kind to warn eachother of things that might bother them a lot. There’s quite a difference between the popularized image of what trigger warnings are and the common sense use-cases like “this media contains depictions of graphic sexual assault that some viewers may find disturbing”.
    - mrexroad 5mo ago
      trigger warnings are not there to prevent people from being "offended" or to avoid emotions they may "get to them." trigger warnings are so folks who have experienced traumatic events can avoid having a panic response triggered unexpectedly. traumatic events are not a normal part of life and fortunately most people are never forced to experience something truly traumatic. Uncontrolled exposure does not build up "immunity" or help individuals work through or process the trauma. if the warnings seem unnecessary to you, then they're probably not for you.
jquery 5mo ago
DDLC borrowed a lot from YOU and ME and HER: A Love Story (Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi), which I consider generally superior to DDLC. I say this not to diminish DDLC, which is excellent, but as a plug for anyone who enjoyed DDLC and wants more mind warping content like that.
- debugnik 5mo ago
  I believe Dan Salvato, the creator of DDLC, said he wasn't aware of YOU and ME and HER until late in development.
  - jquery 5mo ago
    Convergent evolution. It’s probably just an amazing and fortuitous coincidence. They look similar but have completely different internal structure, like a bug that pretends to be a leaf. I can’t go any further without spoilers, so I won’t.
    - debugnik 5mo ago
      There might be a slim evolutionary thread between them, actually. DDLC made a reference to a certain Gravity Falls episode which has a similar premise by releasing exactly 3 years later, and that one could have been inspired by the then recent release of Totono during production. But I agree it's convergence for the most part, it's not that hard to come up with that premise even if it hasn't been too common.
JayDustheadz 5mo ago
If you want something just as surprising & good, I'd recommend giving "Slay the princess" a go - a really unique hidden gem. Or, if you're not into it, then check Euro Brady's playthroughs for this game ( he also did DDLC btw. ) - the commentary is awesome and gives insight into many things you wouldn't normally find out yourself.
- hofrogs 5mo ago
  Slay the Princess is a very good one, can confirm. It's best to go in completely blind.
- tmtvl 5mo ago
  It's hard to talk about STP without any spoilers, but I was kinda underwhelmed after how much it got hyped up. I liked the... adversary? You know, the fighty-fight, fight fight fight; but I've no great desire to find everything.
Shank 5mo ago
> I think it could use a few trigger warnings Doesn't DDLC start with the following? > This game is not suitable for those who are easily disturbed. Individuals suffering from anxiety or depression may not have a safe experience playing this game. For content warnings, please visit https://ddlc.moe/warning https://ddlc.moe/warning. Then the plus version even added in-game content warnings? https://teamsalvato.com/news/updates-to-content-warnings-in-ddlc-plus/ https://teamsalvato.com/news/updates-to-content-warnings-in-... Also, the game is rated PEGI 18, USK 18, M, CERO C, in various countries.
mastermage 5mo ago
Classical Google removing things that are pretty normal while leaving actively harmful, scams, gambling etc. apps online.
raxxorraxor 5mo ago
Even it is wasn't good, it still is a problem to have Google as a gatekeeper. If they removed this, they removed other content unwanted by Google. It means their app store is inherently moderated and it means they are accountable for the content as well. That should extend to any app that scams their users, which includes also unwanted data extraction.

oceansky 5mo ago

This genre of games are called visual novels. Doki Doki was created with the Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine by the way.

ryukoposting 5mo ago
And it's also one of the most impressive displays of RenPy's capabilities you'll ever see. Plenty of games do amazing things with ren'py that you wouldn't think were possible just by looking at the dialogue DSL. Maps, HUDs, minigames, incredibly dynamic pathways through the game. But DDLC takes it to a different level, partly by looking so "normal" on its surface. In college I made some spare cash writing Ren'py games for some creatives online who had the writing and illustration chops, but needed programming help. At the time, DDLC was the model for great game design in Ren'Py. There are plenty of more technically impressive Ren'py games nowadays, but DDLC is still a terrific example of technical sophistication facilitating the story. Ren'py is awesome by the way. A tour de force of software design, in my opinion.
- crashabr 5mo ago
  Any examples of other impressive Ren'py showcases?
  - ryukoposting 5mo ago
    I personally helped develop a game with an entire inventory/crafting system, and an isometric map. Final product never saw the light of day, sadly. People have made some pretty slick turn-based combat systems. Some deck builders, others more spellcasting/mana oriented. And it's renpy so like 80% of the games are straight up porn, so I'm not naming a single one here lol.
  - TheDong 5mo ago
    "Analogue: A Hate Story" and its sequel do some technically interesting things, and they both also have interesting stories, I can recommend them. http://ahatestory.com/ http://ahatestory.com/
  - wincy 5mo ago
    I really enjoyed Roadwarden. Interesting take on an old fantasy genre and gave me “this is ancient history” vibes. I’m not usually into visual novels but beat this game. It’s available for under $3 right now, I am showing 20 hours played, totally worth it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/
    - brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
      Wait a minute, Roadwarden was made in RenPy? That's awesome, I never would have guessed.
    - ryukoposting 5mo ago
      Wow, that's a very pretty game. Ren'py games usually have a certain, um, sheen to them, and this doesn't have that at all.
  - dataveg 5mo ago
    Misericorde is an amazing visual novel available on Steam or itch. All built by the author (Xeecee) in Ren’py - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1708110/Misericorde_Volume_One/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1708110/Misericorde_Volum...
- torginus 5mo ago
  Isn't RenPy basically a game engine under the hood? So if you have the programming chops, you can make anything with Python.
- mcmoor 5mo ago
  I've played it, but what's impressive about this game (technically)? I don't remember its implementation being anything special as opposed its plot.
  - JoshTriplett 5mo ago
    It does a lot of screwing with the interface and game data in ways most VNs do not.
  - dchftcs 5mo ago
    I think it's mainly in relation to the constraints of the game engine, and also that the game engine being flexible enough to enable the gimmicks. I haven't played DDLC and probably never will, but from what I've read about it, like games with similar core themes (not dating sim) it has some gimmicks that tend to stretch the capabilities of a closed-down game engine, sometimes requiring patches to the engine itself. In this case the game engine Renpy offers an extensive DSL that makes it easy to add story scenes, media and dialogues, but allows you to fall back to python to do some tricky things.
  - ryukoposting 5mo ago
    (SPOILERS) It breaks the fourth wall in unexpected, and deeply unsettling ways. As a gamer you take for granted that, at any moment, you can simply exit. The UI is a trustworthy boundary between the imagined world of a horror game, and the comfort of reality. In DDLC, you don't even feel safe on the title screen. Most ren'py games, even the very good ones, barely change the UI at all. Roadwarden doesn't look like a ren'py game at all... until you open the save menu, and then it looks exactly like a ren'py game. Having developed ren'py games, I can tell you why people avoid touching that part of the boilerplate code: it's the one part of ren'py where the abstractions aren't well thought out. It's very fragile. To me, that makes DDLC all the more impressive from a technical point of view. It warps and abuses the most rigid and uncooperative part of the engine, and to great narrative effect.
samrus 5mo ago
Yeah but its such a standout in there that i wouldnt even consider it part of that genre. It uses the same medium but does such crazy things with it that its nothing like any other visual novels
- Polycryptus 5mo ago
  I really can't agree, there are so many great VNs out there and DDLC only really stands out in that it plays heavily to the English-speaking world's preconceived notions of VNs as "nothing more than simple dating simulators"
- YurgenJurgensen 5mo ago
  DDLC is definitely not breaking its “baby’s first 電波ゲー” reputation in this thread.

senkora 5mo ago

The poems are pretty good too.

politelemon 5mo ago

TV shows have reached a point where the ratings are blurry and R content is becoming normalised and ubiquitous with little to no enforcement. Games are still seen as something children engage in despite the average gamers being adults.

chocochunks 5mo ago
Games have ratings in virtually every country. The commercial version of DDLC, DDLC Plus is rated M in North America for 17+. The original free version lacks a rating because it was a free indie game. And the website has the line "This game is not suitable for children or those who are easily disturbed."

surgical_fire 5mo ago

If you only played it once without knowing the ending, I strongly recommend a second playthrough. Some dialogues and poems have a wildly different meaning once you know things. Also, I fully recommend DDLP+ too. The extra stories don't have any real gameplay, but they are really good, and add.some depth to the characters.

shawn_w 5mo ago
I'm not sure I could tolerate a second play through. One part in particular that just goes on and on and on for what feels like forever is really tough to get through and resume the plot.
- jquery 5mo ago
  That’s why every visual novel (well, almost every visual novel) have a skip function. I know exactly the stretch you’re talking about… I think. Just ctrl-skip through it.
  - shawn_w 5mo ago
    Wish HN markup had spoiler tags. Let's just say it involved spending quality time with Yuri? I played it on my Switch; not sure if it has a skip option.
    - jquery 5mo ago
      Yep, quality time with the bookworm. Usually on mobile devices like the Switch or Steam Deck, visual novels have a skip function if you hold one of the triggers.

Forgeties79 5mo ago

It’s hands down R to be clear lol but yes amazing experience.

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

throwaway2046 5mo ago

The official website states on the front page: This game is not suitable for children or those who are easily disturbed.

echelon 5mo ago
We do not need our hyperscaler minders telling us what content we can and cannot consume. This ought to be grounds to litigate antitrust. This should not be happening. We need web-based app installs without scare walls ("downloading from the internet is dangerous"), without hidden settings menus to enable them ("Settings > Apps > Special app access > Install unknown apps"), and without any interference or meddling from the hyperscalers. Tyranny of defaults = 0.00001% of users will ever fall into these buckets = Google knows exactly the evil shit they're doing. Apple not even allowing it is almost less evil by contrast as they're not pretending. These devices are too important for two companies to lord over us and tell us what to do. I hope Lina Khan comes back, and I hope she has some absolute urgency next time. I also hope our pals in the EU and Asia put this shit to rest as well. No citizen of the world should have their devices cucking them like this. This is not what computing is supposed to be. (And let's not discount the fact that competition on these devices is in no way, shape, or form fair anymore. You're taxed to hell and back if you do distribution or outreach on these garrison states.) These our our devices, Google and Apple. You do not get to control what happens after we buy them. You are both monopolies. You are both allelopathic parasites. Invasive species that have outgrown your ecosystem and invaded all the other ones. Doing damage to everything you touch. The world needs a cleansing forest fire to restore healthy competition.
- stavros 5mo ago
  This should already be illegal under the DMA. I don't know how Google is planning to get out of it.
  - echelon 5mo ago
    There hasn't been so much as a finger lifted against antitrust behavior since 2000. They feel as though they're invincible at this point.

KennyBlanken 5mo ago

> I think it could use a few trigger warnings There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that trigger warnings have a positive effect and growing evidence they are either ineffectual or actually negative.

Anvoker 5mo ago
If you've ever had trauma, especially recent, you'll appreciate well done content warnings. You don't want the dramatic plot twist to happen to be exactly the topic you've been trying to avoid so that you can slowly get better. If you've experienced a certain kind of trauma, it's not a matter willpower. It involves a loss of control over one's emotional response and thoughts which can be triggered by things that relate to your trauma. Don't knock on content warnings just because they lack rigorous evidence or because "trigger warnings" became the butt of jokes for a while. They have a genuine utility.
- userbinator 5mo ago
  Teaching people to not let emotions get to them, and offending them to build up that immunity, used to be a normal part of life. I wonder what happened.
  - devmor 5mo ago
    People gained more exposure to eachother and realized it was kind to warn eachother of things that might bother them a lot. There’s quite a difference between the popularized image of what trigger warnings are and the common sense use-cases like “this media contains depictions of graphic sexual assault that some viewers may find disturbing”.
  - mrexroad 5mo ago
    trigger warnings are not there to prevent people from being "offended" or to avoid emotions they may "get to them." trigger warnings are so folks who have experienced traumatic events can avoid having a panic response triggered unexpectedly. traumatic events are not a normal part of life and fortunately most people are never forced to experience something truly traumatic. Uncontrolled exposure does not build up "immunity" or help individuals work through or process the trauma. if the warnings seem unnecessary to you, then they're probably not for you.

jquery 5mo ago

DDLC borrowed a lot from YOU and ME and HER: A Love Story (Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi), which I consider generally superior to DDLC. I say this not to diminish DDLC, which is excellent, but as a plug for anyone who enjoyed DDLC and wants more mind warping content like that.

debugnik 5mo ago
I believe Dan Salvato, the creator of DDLC, said he wasn't aware of YOU and ME and HER until late in development.
- jquery 5mo ago
  Convergent evolution. It’s probably just an amazing and fortuitous coincidence. They look similar but have completely different internal structure, like a bug that pretends to be a leaf. I can’t go any further without spoilers, so I won’t.
  - debugnik 5mo ago
    There might be a slim evolutionary thread between them, actually. DDLC made a reference to a certain Gravity Falls episode which has a similar premise by releasing exactly 3 years later, and that one could have been inspired by the then recent release of Totono during production. But I agree it's convergence for the most part, it's not that hard to come up with that premise even if it hasn't been too common.

JayDustheadz 5mo ago

If you want something just as surprising & good, I'd recommend giving "Slay the princess" a go - a really unique hidden gem. Or, if you're not into it, then check Euro Brady's playthroughs for this game ( he also did DDLC btw. ) - the commentary is awesome and gives insight into many things you wouldn't normally find out yourself.

hofrogs 5mo ago
Slay the Princess is a very good one, can confirm. It's best to go in completely blind.
tmtvl 5mo ago
It's hard to talk about STP without any spoilers, but I was kinda underwhelmed after how much it got hyped up. I liked the... adversary? You know, the fighty-fight, fight fight fight; but I've no great desire to find everything.

Shank 5mo ago

> I think it could use a few trigger warnings Doesn't DDLC start with the following? > This game is not suitable for those who are easily disturbed. Individuals suffering from anxiety or depression may not have a safe experience playing this game. For content warnings, please visit https://ddlc.moe/warning https://ddlc.moe/warning. Then the plus version even added in-game content warnings? https://teamsalvato.com/news/updates-to-content-warnings-in-ddlc-plus/ https://teamsalvato.com/news/updates-to-content-warnings-in-... Also, the game is rated PEGI 18, USK 18, M, CERO C, in various countries.

mastermage 5mo ago

Classical Google removing things that are pretty normal while leaving actively harmful, scams, gambling etc. apps online.

raxxorraxor 5mo ago

Even it is wasn't good, it still is a problem to have Google as a gatekeeper. If they removed this, they removed other content unwanted by Google. It means their app store is inherently moderated and it means they are accountable for the content as well. That should extend to any app that scams their users, which includes also unwanted data extraction.