7 ms·
Yeah, the whole concept of rights in the US are, in the main, about restricting what the federal government and states can do individuals. Whereas in Europe ou
by a_humean 10mo ago
Yeah, the whole concept of rights in the US are, in the main, about restricting what the federal government and states can do individuals.
Whereas in Europe our concept of rights include restrictions on the state, but also also might restrict non-state actors. We also have a broader concept of rights that create obligations on the state and private actors to do things for individuals to their benefit.
- YouAreWRONGtoo 10mo ago[dead]
- anikom15 10mo agoWhat restrictions do European governments impose on the state?
- mbac32768 10mo agoIt is oddly funny that people in my town are ferociously protesting the police force's adoption of Flock surveillance cameras when everyone already carries total surveillance devices (smartphones) on their person at all times.
- TehCorwiz 10mo agoI can leave my phone at home. I cannot leave flock at home. It’s about consent.
- derektank 10mo agoI'm pretty sure the point parent was trying to make is that you can't get other people to leave their phones at home and there is very little recourse if a private citizen decides to record you without your consent from their phone in a public space. There's of course a difference in the powers involved, but people have had their lives ruined because somebody captured a video of them out of context or in their worst moment.
- vineyardmike 10mo agoYou can (generally) tell when a person around you is filming, and you generally don’t have to worry about tons of random individuals bringing together footage of you for tracking and surveillance.
- rjdj377dhabsn 10mo agoPrivate individuals generally aren't systematically using their cameras for mass surveillance of you. The government is.
- eru 10mo agoMost of the cameras are attached to either Apple or Android devices. The companies that control these ecosystems could use them for mass surveillance. The government could 'politely' ask these companies to do that for them. Or they could just directly order the phones.
- ocdtrekkie 10mo agoSort of except for the fatal flaw that you are talking about battery powered devices that mostly live in peoples' pockets. The reason Flock cameras and Ring doorbells both serve well for mass video surveillance is consistent predictable location and power.
- eru 10mo agoMaybe, yes. On the other hand, there's lots and lots of people running around with these things, so you get pretty good statistical coverage, especially in cities.
- IshKebab 10mo agoCould, but don't.
- lostlogin 10mo agoYou really think Google and Apple aren’t tracking users?
- konart 10mo agoUnless we are trying to do the "conspiracy theory" route: there is not "thinking" here. You can at least sniff traffic or whatever and tell if your phone is ringing back to google even when you tell it not to. And the discussion above is about a different kind of surveillance. Notifying Google (or state) that I'm sitting in front of my PC is one thing. Sending photos of videos of me jerking off is different.
- immibis 10mo agoIn Germany it's (very roughly speaking) illegal to film people in public. (Importantly, not the same as filming a thing or event and having people incidentally in the frame)
- nandomrumber 10mo ago[flagged]
- nandomrumber 10mo agoIt’s kinda good the planet gets to run both experiments, and more. The EU approach seems to want to insert government in to contracts between private individual and those they do business with, and the US approach seems to want to maybe allow too much power to accumulate in those who wield the mercantile powers. The optimal approach probably lies in the tension between multiple loci.
- hx8 10mo agoIt's one experiment because both systems are competing at the same time for global resources both in cooperation and competition with each other and other actors. Additional both systems exist in such widely different contexts that any comparison would be inaccurate because other factors such as geographic and historical have a large impact on any measured results.
- anonym29 10mo agoThe optimal approach appears domain specific and granular, too. As for domain specificity: I don't know any Europeans who'd prefer to have American healthcare. I don't know any European technology companies that hold a candle to the sheer breadth and depth of capabilities brought into the world by Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Nvidia, AMD, Intel, OpenAI, or Anthropic. Yes, Mistral, Nokia, OVH, and SAP exist, but compared to the alternarives, they exist in the way the American healthcare system exists compared to its alternatives. As for granularity: Perhaps we want American style governance for building the tech, but then European style governance for running it?
- veltas 10mo agoI don't agree with that at all. If anyone else tries to infringe your rights it's either voluntary i.e. you've consented to this, or it's involuntary in which case you can sue them or the state will prosecute them on your behalf.
- Broken_Hippo 10mo agoUnfortunately, the world contains nuance that your statement does not.
- veltas 10mo agoWhat I said is a very general statement that broadly applies to all civilised countries, reiterated because the parent comment was very incorrect suggesting that rights are mainly protecting citizens from their state in the US. It's simply not true.
- dpark 10mo agoWhat you’re missing is that the set of rights European countries recognize and the set of rights that the American government recognizes are not the same set. In Europe they recognize a right to be forgotten that simply does not exist in the US. Europe recognizes personal data rights that the US does not. These data rights impose requirements on the way companies manage your data and specifically do not allow, e.g., Facebook to get you to consent that your rights do not apply. The European government protects imposes citizens’ rights on businesses in several ways that the US government does not. On the other hand, US free speech rights are generally stronger. And of course no one else except US citizens have an inalienable right to sleep on a bed made of loaded handguns.
- veltas 10mo agoObviously the rights that the state grants are different in the US than Europe, but the rights of individuals are protected versus other individuals, corporations, and general organisations; just as they are in all civilised countries. To the extent you can have famous cases where people sue large coffee franchises for selling coffee that's too hot. So the statement that "the whole concept of rights in the US are, in the main, about restricting what the federal government and states can do individuals" is far from reality, and I felt it necessary to ground this conversation back in reality.
- marsven_422 10mo ago[dead]
- casey2 10mo agoThat's because in the US we don't give non-state organization power over other people. At least not in the European way where you have to give your life to an org. A US citizen has the freedom to disassociate with any organization at any time for any reason. Of course this comes with a social cost, offset as this allows people who are discontent with their arrangements to forge a new path States like California have high job lock, so most innovation comes from side-projects as people checkout from work.
- smilespray 10mo agoWhat are you on about?
- hansmayer 10mo ago> That's because in the US we don't give non-state organization power over other people Have you been following the news for the last few years?
- cwel 10mo ago>in the US we don't give non-state organization power over other people. False.
- spare_farts 10mo ago[dead]
- mcv 10mo ago> That's because in the US we don't give non-state organization power over other people. How are credit ratings maintained again? > At least not in the European way where you have to give your life to an org. I have to what!? News to me. > A US citizen has the freedom to disassociate with any organization at any time for any reason. Maybe, but the EU is more militant in enforcing that right. Some US states are working on "right to be forgotten" laws, but they've got a lot of catching up to do, and I don't think there's a federal law in the works yet.