8 ms·

Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

369 points by _p2zi 1y ago

efitz 1y ago
I wonder if there are going to be any consequences for the execs who pushed for, or at least green-lit, the decisions to operate Prime that way. Nah, jk. Of course not.
iancmceachern 1y ago
They should do legalshield next
- Our_Benefactors 1y ago
  I’ve never heard of legalshield. What’s their deal?
  - iancmceachern 1y ago
    You have to email them to cancel
    - jkestner 1y ago
      There was a FTC rule about to go into effect that would require it be as easy to cancel as it is to subscribe to a service. A court struck it down on procedural grounds. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/click-to-cancel-rule-has-been-officially-canceled-072325.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/click-to-cancel-rule-ha...
      - EasyMark 1y ago
        I really wish Congress would take that up
        Computer0 1y ago
        I'm not a nihilist to say it would never happen, but until the congress is not full of corrupt baboons it won't happen.
        cindyllm 1y ago
        [dead]
- jq-r 1y ago
  Adobe. The only "free trial" subscription I actually had to pay to cancel. Despicable company.
  - Aloisius 1y ago
    The FTC sued Adobe last year for subscription dark patterns. https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/222-3055-adobe-inc-us-v https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/2...
Larrikin 1y ago
Is this one of those situations where we sign up and get a bit of money from the company, or will we have already been contacted?
- citizenpaul 1y ago
  My guess is 95%+ of the restitution will be in the form of a free year of Amazon prime. I'm pretty cynical though.
  - delecti 1y ago
    It explicitly says "refunds" in TFA. > Amazon will be required to pay a $1 billion civil penalty, provide $1.5 billion in refunds back to consumers [...]
- Brybry 1y ago
  Amazon will pay $1 billion to the government as a penalty and set aside $1.5 billion for consumers. The settlement terms have most of the details. [0] Amazon will do an automatic payout to some people for up to $51. No need to claim anything for that. I'm guessing they'll mail checks or prepaid debit cards or something. Then Amazon will make a website, within 30 days, and post it on their site (and I'm sure news media will also post it) that will be for manual claims. These claims are also for up to $51 and people will have 180 days to manually claim. After that, if there's still money, then Amazon will repeatedly do more $51 automatic payments to more people until they're out of money (basically more lax automatic qualification of Prime members from June 23, 2019 to June 23, 2025). Basically ~30 million people get up to $51. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/Amazon-ROSCA-Order-Filed_0.pdf#page=9 https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/Amazon-ROSCA-Or...
  - Der_Einzige 1y ago
    I fking hate these sorts of pay out terms. Dont pay people automatically so that the remaining ones who do claim it get paid a lot more than 51$. In fact, a lottery where only 1% of victims got 5000$ would be even better. America loves its inequality. Stop making us equally poor and let the lucky few of us get a 1 oz bar of gold!
Spivak 1y ago
The actual win isn't the fine, it's > and cease unlawful enrollment and cancellation practices for Prime. which thank god, Amazon deserves to be in the hall of fame for their multiple beg screens.
- StillBored 1y ago
  Which because they have gotten away with it for so long, everyone else has been copying (or well I guess this has been going on for decades in various forms) them. Ex, netflix, which has decided to pop up a 'we noticed there are people who don't live with you using your account, click here to pay us another $9/month' every time it starts on my TV, presumably because my underage child, who legally lives with me, uses it on her phone when she is away at school for 5 months a year. And then when someone clicked the default pay us button, I was unable to figure out how to remove the charge without actually calling and telling them I was canceling after 20+ years. (the whole extra member thing wasn't showing up in the web ui, no idea why, maybe its because of the TV clicking process).
- majormajor 1y ago
  Huh, I was wondering why cancelling after a free trial recently was easier than the last time I cancelled a few years ago.
- WillPostForFood 1y ago
  It is two screens, three clicks - not hard at all. https://www.amazon.com/mm/pipeline/cancellation https://www.amazon.com/mm/pipeline/cancellation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxPcnMG0fE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxPcnMG0fE
  - cchance 1y ago
    I'm honestly confused, cancelling prime doesn't seem hard lol, its the typical "are you sure" shit every site has
    - cratermoon 1y ago
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
Some more discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365712
bobbyprograms 1y ago
Huh I forgot to cancel and called and they refunded me lol.
citizenpaul 1y ago
Cool...another "Historic" fine that represents a tiny percent of a companies quarterly profits.
crazygringo 1y ago
> harmed by their deceptive Prime enrollment practices I'm still confused by this part. I didn't use Prime for a long time. I remember lots of buttons inviting me to sign up, just like YouTube asks me weekly if I want to subscribe to premium. But I don't remember anything seemingly deceptive, and none of the news articles seem to actually provide any details. So what precisely was deceptive? And even the cancellation part, it's just two confirmation screens. It doesn't seem bad. It honestly seems about the same as any other website subscription I've ever had. You click to cancel, say yes I really don't want the benefits (this is the only extra step), and then click to confirm the cancellation.
- Analemma_ 1y ago
  I canceled Prime about 18 months ago, and now every single time I go to check out on Amazon, before the checkout page there's a splash screen a the gigantic, bright blue CHECK OUT WITH PRIME button, and then under that, in 8pt font with grey-on-white text, a "No thanks, continue without Prime" link. The lack of any subtlety would be hilarious if it wasn't so irritating. Throw the book at them.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    Ah thanks, I did some digging and found some screenshots from 2017 and 2022 respectively: https://i.insider.com/6226b418990863001998d7a9?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp https://i.insider.com/6226b418990863001998d7a9?width=1200&fo... https://i.insider.com/6226b454dcce010019a7243a?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp https://i.insider.com/6226b454dcce010019a7243a?width=1200&fo... The "no thanks" on the second one does seem particularly egregious. I'm curious if there's a screenshot of the current one you describe.
    - cratermoon 1y ago
      The "I do not want fast, free shipping" in the first screenshot is insulting. The worst kind of dark pattern guilting.
  - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
unquietwiki 1y ago
The proposed remedy seems fine. What stuck out to me is the "Trump-Vance" attribution: I haven't seen something like that since the election.
- cchance 1y ago
  Anything that happens during this presidency (even if started under biden) gets a trump by-line...
  - pahkah 1y ago
    And as you're implying, this action began under the "Biden-Harris FTC": https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/...
    - dylan604 1y ago
      My immediate reaction to the title was "Bezos must not have written a large enough check to the library fund" or whatever else the orange man wants funded. yeah yeah, Bezos isn't in charge blah blah. Someone from the smile logo didn't write a check.
    - djeastm 1y ago
      You might want to clarify that the document you're linking to does NOT have the words "Biden-Harris FTC" in it, but simply that the action was taken by that Administration's FTC. In fact, the article doesn't mention Biden or Harris in any capacity. The salient point is that "Trump-Vance" is being stamped on everything in an effort to build the Admin's brand.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  Didn't you know that this administration is all about feeding lies?
- thevillagechief 1y ago
throwmeaway222 1y ago
I would have assumed their downfall would have been "free 2 day shipping" since it takes about 4 days for me to get anything from them.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  They have an answer for that: "Shipping is 2 day." That doesn't mean it will be shipped as to arrive within two days from ordering, but when we ship it (which may be that day, or may be three days later) you'll get it within 2 days...
  - MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
    The two days before you received the package was two days. QED.
    - FireBeyond 1y ago
      Oh to be clear, I think that explanation is BS, and Amazon is just lawyering the answer. But that's how they see it.
JCM9 1y ago
Generally a fan of Prime. I’ll admit the shipping is pretty addictive. The rest of Prime is pretty meh. It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. On both .com and AWS, Amazon is reaching a stage of maturity where they’re running out of new customers. While still a fan of both, they’re both getting annoying as innovation slows and they get more annoying with a focus on doing things to make your use “sticky” vs making you trip over yourself to buy something because it’s great. Amazon is full of counterfeit or low quality junk that one needs to navigate. AWS is muddling things with far too many random services thrown at the wall vs just being really good at a few core things. In today competitive environment account teams can’t really explain why we should use AWS apart from “we’re AWS” which is again an answer from a company aging into more stagnating maturity. The fine, while more than a rounding error, is still small. However it will hopefully help cut down on some of Amazon’s more annoying behaviors.
- toast0 1y ago
  > It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. It is and it isn't. The cost of shipping is built into the price of most of the items. You get a good deal if you buy things where pricing is more or less fixed, or if you buy things one at a time, but if you purchase several items at the same time, you can often save money if you purchase from a vendor that has better unit prices and charges shipping, or offers free shipping with a minimum order. I see this all the time with my hobby purchases. Amazon has everything (mostly), but it's more cost efficient to put together orders of multiple parts at other vendors. Sometimes just one part at another vendor works too, if it fits in an flat envelope and they charge appropriately for envelope shipping.
  - phil21 1y ago
    It’s exceedingly rare for a vendor to be cheaper on shipping (and in total) than Amazon is for me. Especially if you consider shipping speed and return hassle/expense. Really depends on what you buy, but about half the time I buy from a vendor direct I end up regretting it if I’m in a hurry or not 100% certain of the product before ordering.
whatamidoingyo 1y ago
A few years ago, I got a new phone and a new number. I eventually went to Amazon, entered password, and then was prompted for the OTP, which was sent to my previous number (which I no longer had access to). I kept trying things until I was completely locked out of the account. I emailed them, no help. So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I just kept getting charged month after month (of which I'd just forget about it after getting angry for a minute). I'd hope that they fixed this. If an account is locked, it seems like it would be common sense to place a hold on any subscriptions associated with it.
- packetlost 1y ago
  lol you think they're going to actively put any effort towards something that isn't legally required and loses them money? Nah, there's no way they're going to implement that. I hope you issued chargebacks on your card for those charges.
- TrainedMonkey 1y ago
  Did the situation get resolved or are you still being charged? I need a resolution here STAT! In my personal experience, Amazon has an acceptable customer support when compared to Google, but nobody with that type of scale can even touch Apple's support experience.
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    You get what you pay for? The "Apple Tax" provides support.
  - whatamidoingyo 1y ago
    It eventually got resolved, yes. I had to call my bank and place a block on Amazon from charging my account.
- gretch 1y ago
  > I'd hope that they fixed this. If an account is locked, it seems like it would be common sense to place a hold on any subscriptions associated with it. The problem with this is you can deny someone's service very easily just by knowing publicly associated data (e.g. email address) and intentionally getting the password wrong a few times. > So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I just kept getting charged month after month (of which I'd just forget about it after getting angry for a minute). Most places have some law where you must be able to cancel by calling or some other path. But as a last line stop gap, you can contact your credit card company and deny the charges based on the inability to cancel. In fact, this is one of the explicit value propositions of an intermediary payment company.
jkestner 1y ago
Amazon is bad, but as others note, it’s insultingly transparent more than anything. But the worst in my recent history is Duolingo. Constant pestering to upgrade your subscription, fine, but once you do, it frequently “forgets” the subscription (through the App Store) and goes back to nagging you, only fixed by digging a few screens into the profile and tapping “restore purchases”. Bigger issue when your family is using it and doesn’t understand you’re already subscribed. Paid for two family subscriptions this way.
- robotnikman 1y ago
  It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying. If anyone has any recommended alternatives where I can learn Japanese I'm interested. Despite all the crap Duolingo has, it has been very convenient when it comes to spending 30 minutes at the end of the day doing some Japanese lessons.
  - ascagnel_ 1y ago
    > It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying. Is this through their own storefront, or through a mobile storefront (Apple/Google)? While it's bad either way, Apple and Google specific styling around their subscription confirmation prompts, so I hope they haven't circumvented those somehow.
    - robotnikman 1y ago
      It seems to be through their own storefront in the app. Thankfully it doesn't automatically subscribe you at the end of the free trial.
  - Macha 1y ago
    As for alternatives: Bunpro (grammar + vocab + kanji), Marumori (tries to do everything), Wanikani (kanji) are the ones usually recommended. Personally I used Bunpro + Wanikani. That said, you do need to spread your wings out of the apps eventually. Learning words 5000-6000 are less helpful than practicing listening in context for example.
al_borland 1y ago
I cancelled Prime last year after getting fed up with Amazon in several ways. Bringing ads to Prime Video was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I do still end up ordering from time to time, and the checkout process for non-Prime members is horrific. Multiple Prime sign-up offers that I always need to carefully read so I don’t click the wrong thing, illogical default shipping options, with more tricks to try and get the user to sign up for Prime while choosing shipping, after having already declined multiple times. I don’t know why any non-Prime customer would want to sign up for Prime after such a user-hostile experience full of dark patterns. I graphed out my orders since the start of my Amazon account. There was a steady uptrend over 20 years, with yearly growth since 2018. All of that ended 2023. My orders fell off a cliff, dropping by 60% in 2024. The treatment of non-Prime customers isn’t winning me back, it’s pushing me further away. I think my goal for 2026 will be not to order anything from Amazon. It’s been such a bad experience. Apparently their goal of being the world’s most customer-centric company only applies to Prime users. I hope this judgement will get them to change their ways, but I’m assuming they will do as little as possible to comply, and still pushing Prime hard.
- udkl 1y ago
  For good or for bad, I've switched to Walmart for many of my orders as well as home delivery of groceries now and then and they have been decent. It's good to have competitors who are catching up.
  - inetknght 1y ago
    Do frozen foods get delivered still frozen? I live 15 minutes away from the nearest wal-mart and frozens/refrigerables are my biggest concern.
    - udkl 1y ago
      they don't do anything special for frozen items .... it's just as if you get it in bags from the store. .... add in additional time for neighborhood deliveries if any ..... usually they arrive semi-frozen .... you can track the delivery driver from the store (where they hopefully keep it in a cold room) to your home... for me it takes them from 20 mins to 1 hour for delivery ...
lanewinfield 1y ago
[flagged]
- baobabKoodaa 1y ago
  Brian what is this comment? Am I part of a new performance art experiment just by reading this?
- apex3stoker 1y ago
  Biden administration had a regulation to make canceling subscription as easy as signing up, but the regulation got vacated by US Court of Appeals for the 8th circuit. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/click-to-cancel-rule-to-make-canceling-subscriptions-easier-blocked-by-court https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/click-to-cancel-rule-to-...
- dimgl 1y ago
  So now we're getting AI slop on Hacker News too?
  - bjacobel 1y ago
    Hey now, I'm sure that this one-emdash-per-paragraph comment is organic and genuine.
  - baobabKoodaa 1y ago
    Check the profile. That's the author of GOODY-2. I don't get the point of posting AI slop either, but I'm guessing it's part of another "art project" of his.
    - dimgl 1y ago
      Not really attacking the poster, just tired of my eyes being assaulted by this kind of writing everywhere now.
      - ssl-3 1y ago
        It's just a summary — of a summary ⸺ of a summary ⸻ of a summary. Why would anyone tire of something like that? (/s)
ebayprime 1y ago
i canceled my amazon and now use ebay for everything.
- RandomBacon 1y ago
  I always check both. Ironically, I buy more books from eBay than Amazon.
breadwinner 1y ago
I would like Amazon to be fined another Billion for not notifying customers about the annual renewal. They sneak the charge on to your credit card, and you have no easy way to find out what the charge is for.
- paulvnickerson 1y ago
  Why not make it a trillion!
- bobdaicon979 1y ago
  Can't forget the hidden subscriptions within PrimeTV millions of people were charged for, for more than a year in some cases. This should be its own lawsuit.
sib 1y ago
It's sad to see it come to this. When I worked there (more than a decade ago) senior leaders and old-timers were extremely proud of the fact that they did things like sending "your Prime membership will renew in (a month - I think) - be sure to cancel if you don't want it to" emails. This was quite different from typical subscription services providers at the time. In fact, I had more than one old-timer mention that they would ask employment candidates about the Prime pricing and renewal strategy and that candidates who said something along the lines of "it's best for people to subscribe and then never use it so we make margin on the service revenue" (along the lines of gym business models) would be rejected. They really wanted people to want to be Prime members (this was even before Bezos' famous "you'd be irresponsible not to be a Prime member" comment...)
- rose-knuckle17 1y ago
  Amazon started going downhill when they started losing their founding builders and started hiring cisco and other silicon valley insiders at executive levels. The Amazon Way is now a quaint retrospective, and the quality and attractiveness are quickly moving to the lowest common denominator.
- mikert89 1y ago
  I think the company just took retail and AWS to their logical conclusion, and so the old culture doesn’t even make sense
- rendaw 1y ago
  That's impressive but man what an unfair hiring policy. A candidate is trying to guess corporate culture, makes the wrong guess, and then you reject them? It's a coin flip.
  - Nasrudith 1y ago
    Isn't that most social culture? Expecting people to be psychic to your unspoken or vaguely hinted desires and then promoting people for telling you what you want to hear vs what you need to hear?
paxys 1y ago
Amazon makes $50B per year from Prime, and there are an estimated 240 million subscribers. $10/user is an insanely cheap price for user acquisition (basically equivalent to a 1 month free deal), and any company will happily take this deal 10 times out of 10.
GuB-42 1y ago
I don't really understand all the fuss about Amazon Prime. I found it really easy to cancel. They even refunded me when I canceled my subscription after the free trial expired (forgot to cancel before that despite being notified). Clicking passed the "look at what you will lose if you cancel" screen is not my idea of "hard". Yes, they push for subscriptions, usually using promotional offers. It is called marketing, and Amazon is relatively mild in that regard. Maybe it could create a precedent and make the majority of subscription services pay.
- guywithahat 1y ago
  My experience is they're more aggressive about prime ads when they think they can get you. So I'd get a bunch of ads and an extra screen to join prime student, and the buttons are deliberately confusing. But I agree. It's just an extra button you have to press. Annoying, but not the worst thing a company has done to me
- jstummbillig 1y ago
  > I don't really understand all the fuss about Amazon Prime. Oh, the fuss is because Amazon is big. The big players receive a lot of scrutiny. > I found it really easy to cancel. I find it a lot easier to sign up. I think that's the issue at play here.
niwtsol 1y ago
I moved my prime account to be on a family plan. Their systems sent me, IDK, 15 messages telling me my prime benefits were going away and to sign up. Either they completely do not cross validate that I had moved to another prime subscription, or, based off my read of this article, they really just wanted two people in the same household paying for prime for no reason.
sershe 1y ago
For me prime still works fine most of the time. And so much random crap is overnight nowadays! Nothing like ordering a vent cap, finding it doesn't quite fit due to peculiar siding, and immediately returning and overnighting a different one for free. I just wish they'd pick up returns if they are rare enough, having to make a 10 minute stop to do it myself is completely unacceptable ;)
HardwareLust 1y ago
Oh boy, can't wait to get my $4 off coupon in June of 2030.
- ProllyInfamous 1y ago
  I feel your apathy, friend. Our local parking authority (meter maids) just paid out a massive settlement (/s): each claimant gets four (4) twenty-five cent (25¢) parking credits (==$1.00), which expire within one month. They also raised parking rates by about that much, per hour. Winning! /s
tim333 1y ago
They got me a little a couple of months ago. I had a free prime trial, then clicked cancel which was easy enough but it didn't cancel because I didn't notice after cancel there was an 'are you sure you really want to cancel' which I missed. Such is the way of the game I guess.
dijit 1y ago
$2.5B. I genuinely can't fathom these numbers. As in: it could be $25B or $250M and it would mean the same to me. Does this materially impact Amazon? I'm (really) not a fan of Amazon, but to me that's an existential amount of money. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where that kind of money wouldn't be a "ok, I guess we're closing down, turn off the lights when you leave" situation, and I've worked at some large companies. I'm not usually exposed to financials I guess but my burn rate for my last (very small) company was about $4-5M/y roughly. This amount of money would keep us all gainfully employed for about 500 years.
- luigman 1y ago
  Amazon made $638B in revenue, $60B profit in 2024. Yes $2.5B fine is a lot but it will not significantly hurt the company
  - Bjartr 1y ago
    Losing out on 2.4% of profit isn't nothing. It's not an existential therat to the company, sure, but this seems a more real consequence for wrongdoing than many other penalties I've seen against companies over the years.
kingnothing 1y ago
Amazon's 2024 net income (profit) was $59B on $638B revenue. The median US household income is $80k and has a savings rate (profit) of 3.6%, or $2880. This $2.5B fine is equivalent to the average US household being fined $115 or, basically, a traffic ticket.
robomc 1y ago
I found out recently that I've been paying for Prime Video since 2020. I think I did legitimately sign up for it. That's not my complaint. But it's fairly scummy how it doesn't seem to send you any email, the payments have a very vague generic coding like "AMZ2318971239", and the actual subscription management is super buried. I only noticed it, after years of using Amazon a fair bit, when I went deep into my account panes looking for something else.
mmacvicarprett 1y ago
Can they pay with stock?
nunez 1y ago
lol they're STILL doing this. As of the time this was written, if you go through the order flow for anything, at any price, the first shipping option will be "get one-day shipping FREE with Amazon Prime", wrapped in a huge CTA. Between that and checkout is a "are you sure?" nag screen where they tell you all of the benefits of going Prime. I don't shop at Amazon nearly as much as I did in past years, but I was shocked to see how challenging it was to voluntarily pay for one-day shipping because of all of this!
miladyincontrol 1y ago
I just wish I could get prime without all the videoslop and other content absolutely unrelated my interest in speedy parcel delivery. No other service I use forces such inane bundling.
ankurdhama 1y ago
Please fine $1B more for providing only SD stream on Linux.
bobdaicon979 1y ago
Thank you, Lina Khan.
patrickprunty 1y ago
[dead]
fennecbutt 1y ago
Yeah I unsubscribed a while ago. Noticed immediately whenever I ordered anything from amazon that it's always like "free shipping" - it's a lie, ofc it's free shipping by signing up to prime. But at checkout they show a "free shipping" option with very small subtext that it's a prime membership. Whats the point of fining them? It's not gonna change the system of endless growth for the shareholders, multi million dollar executive salaries for executives who don't know anything about what their business does and have zero forward planning or responsibility.
jiveturkey 1y ago
HN headline is wrong. AMZN not fined 2.5B, they were fined 1B and have to refund 1.5B to consumers. The original article (at this time anyway) has an accurate headline. It's really too bad the FTC settled and AMZN gets to admit no fault. What is the incentive for FTC to simply not pursue this to the bitter end? 1B is literally pocket change to the fed government, and is laugh-meme moment for Amazon. $50 back to each user is also not even worth claiming. So the settlement is just FTC not doing their job. Disclaimer: I willingly use Prime and doubt I'd ever leave.
crudgen 1y ago
Interesting that there is consumer protection in US. But aren't dark patterns like everywhere?
sandspar 1y ago
I love Amazon Prime. I pay like $15 a month and get one-day shipping on pretty much every product on Earth. Coming from the old days of waiting two weeks for every package, 1 day shipping is a godsend. I never tire of it. Plus I get a reasonable catalog of popular movies to play in the background while I do chores.
supermatt 1y ago
Meanwhile, in the EU… I forgot to cancel prime after a free trial - twice! Noticed a few days after they billed my account. Contacted support and they cancelled and refunded me. Not out of the goodness of their hearts of course - A 14 day right of withdrawal is part of EU consumer rights.
tsoukase 1y ago
I stayed signed up on Prime for 15 months at 2020-21 without realising it and how it started. Awful experience and practices of shady gangsters. Jeff go to f.. hell. I want my 120E back from this fine.

369 points by _p2zi 1y ago

I wonder if there are going to be any consequences for the execs who pushed for, or at least green-lit, the decisions to operate Prime that way. Nah, jk. Of course not.

iancmceachern 1y ago

They should do legalshield next

Our_Benefactors 1y ago
I’ve never heard of legalshield. What’s their deal?
- iancmceachern 1y ago
  You have to email them to cancel
  - jkestner 1y ago
    There was a FTC rule about to go into effect that would require it be as easy to cancel as it is to subscribe to a service. A court struck it down on procedural grounds. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/click-to-cancel-rule-has-been-officially-canceled-072325.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/click-to-cancel-rule-ha...
    - EasyMark 1y ago
      I really wish Congress would take that up
      - Computer0 1y ago
        I'm not a nihilist to say it would never happen, but until the congress is not full of corrupt baboons it won't happen.
        cindyllm 1y ago
        [dead]
jq-r 1y ago
Adobe. The only "free trial" subscription I actually had to pay to cancel. Despicable company.
- Aloisius 1y ago
  The FTC sued Adobe last year for subscription dark patterns. https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/222-3055-adobe-inc-us-v https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/2...

Larrikin 1y ago

Is this one of those situations where we sign up and get a bit of money from the company, or will we have already been contacted?

citizenpaul 1y ago
My guess is 95%+ of the restitution will be in the form of a free year of Amazon prime. I'm pretty cynical though.
- delecti 1y ago
  It explicitly says "refunds" in TFA. > Amazon will be required to pay a $1 billion civil penalty, provide $1.5 billion in refunds back to consumers [...]
Brybry 1y ago
Amazon will pay $1 billion to the government as a penalty and set aside $1.5 billion for consumers. The settlement terms have most of the details. [0] Amazon will do an automatic payout to some people for up to $51. No need to claim anything for that. I'm guessing they'll mail checks or prepaid debit cards or something. Then Amazon will make a website, within 30 days, and post it on their site (and I'm sure news media will also post it) that will be for manual claims. These claims are also for up to $51 and people will have 180 days to manually claim. After that, if there's still money, then Amazon will repeatedly do more $51 automatic payments to more people until they're out of money (basically more lax automatic qualification of Prime members from June 23, 2019 to June 23, 2025). Basically ~30 million people get up to $51. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/Amazon-ROSCA-Order-Filed_0.pdf#page=9 https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/Amazon-ROSCA-Or...
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  I fking hate these sorts of pay out terms. Dont pay people automatically so that the remaining ones who do claim it get paid a lot more than 51$. In fact, a lottery where only 1% of victims got 5000$ would be even better. America loves its inequality. Stop making us equally poor and let the lucky few of us get a 1 oz bar of gold!

Spivak 1y ago

The actual win isn't the fine, it's > and cease unlawful enrollment and cancellation practices for Prime. which thank god, Amazon deserves to be in the hall of fame for their multiple beg screens.

StillBored 1y ago
Which because they have gotten away with it for so long, everyone else has been copying (or well I guess this has been going on for decades in various forms) them. Ex, netflix, which has decided to pop up a 'we noticed there are people who don't live with you using your account, click here to pay us another $9/month' every time it starts on my TV, presumably because my underage child, who legally lives with me, uses it on her phone when she is away at school for 5 months a year. And then when someone clicked the default pay us button, I was unable to figure out how to remove the charge without actually calling and telling them I was canceling after 20+ years. (the whole extra member thing wasn't showing up in the web ui, no idea why, maybe its because of the TV clicking process).
majormajor 1y ago
Huh, I was wondering why cancelling after a free trial recently was easier than the last time I cancelled a few years ago.
WillPostForFood 1y ago
It is two screens, three clicks - not hard at all. https://www.amazon.com/mm/pipeline/cancellation https://www.amazon.com/mm/pipeline/cancellation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxPcnMG0fE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxPcnMG0fE
- cchance 1y ago
  I'm honestly confused, cancelling prime doesn't seem hard lol, its the typical "are you sure" shit every site has
  - cratermoon 1y ago

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

Some more discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365712

bobbyprograms 1y ago

Huh I forgot to cancel and called and they refunded me lol.

citizenpaul 1y ago

Cool...another "Historic" fine that represents a tiny percent of a companies quarterly profits.

crazygringo 1y ago

> harmed by their deceptive Prime enrollment practices I'm still confused by this part. I didn't use Prime for a long time. I remember lots of buttons inviting me to sign up, just like YouTube asks me weekly if I want to subscribe to premium. But I don't remember anything seemingly deceptive, and none of the news articles seem to actually provide any details. So what precisely was deceptive? And even the cancellation part, it's just two confirmation screens. It doesn't seem bad. It honestly seems about the same as any other website subscription I've ever had. You click to cancel, say yes I really don't want the benefits (this is the only extra step), and then click to confirm the cancellation.

Analemma_ 1y ago
I canceled Prime about 18 months ago, and now every single time I go to check out on Amazon, before the checkout page there's a splash screen a the gigantic, bright blue CHECK OUT WITH PRIME button, and then under that, in 8pt font with grey-on-white text, a "No thanks, continue without Prime" link. The lack of any subtlety would be hilarious if it wasn't so irritating. Throw the book at them.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  Ah thanks, I did some digging and found some screenshots from 2017 and 2022 respectively: https://i.insider.com/6226b418990863001998d7a9?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp https://i.insider.com/6226b418990863001998d7a9?width=1200&fo... https://i.insider.com/6226b454dcce010019a7243a?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp https://i.insider.com/6226b454dcce010019a7243a?width=1200&fo... The "no thanks" on the second one does seem particularly egregious. I'm curious if there's a screenshot of the current one you describe.
  - cratermoon 1y ago
    The "I do not want fast, free shipping" in the first screenshot is insulting. The worst kind of dark pattern guilting.
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago

unquietwiki 1y ago

The proposed remedy seems fine. What stuck out to me is the "Trump-Vance" attribution: I haven't seen something like that since the election.

cchance 1y ago
Anything that happens during this presidency (even if started under biden) gets a trump by-line...
- pahkah 1y ago
  And as you're implying, this action began under the "Biden-Harris FTC": https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/...
  - dylan604 1y ago
    My immediate reaction to the title was "Bezos must not have written a large enough check to the library fund" or whatever else the orange man wants funded. yeah yeah, Bezos isn't in charge blah blah. Someone from the smile logo didn't write a check.
  - djeastm 1y ago
    You might want to clarify that the document you're linking to does NOT have the words "Biden-Harris FTC" in it, but simply that the action was taken by that Administration's FTC. In fact, the article doesn't mention Biden or Harris in any capacity. The salient point is that "Trump-Vance" is being stamped on everything in an effort to build the Admin's brand.
nine_zeros 1y ago
Didn't you know that this administration is all about feeding lies?
thevillagechief 1y ago

throwmeaway222 1y ago

I would have assumed their downfall would have been "free 2 day shipping" since it takes about 4 days for me to get anything from them.

FireBeyond 1y ago
They have an answer for that: "Shipping is 2 day." That doesn't mean it will be shipped as to arrive within two days from ordering, but when we ship it (which may be that day, or may be three days later) you'll get it within 2 days...
- MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
  The two days before you received the package was two days. QED.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    Oh to be clear, I think that explanation is BS, and Amazon is just lawyering the answer. But that's how they see it.

JCM9 1y ago

Generally a fan of Prime. I’ll admit the shipping is pretty addictive. The rest of Prime is pretty meh. It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. On both .com and AWS, Amazon is reaching a stage of maturity where they’re running out of new customers. While still a fan of both, they’re both getting annoying as innovation slows and they get more annoying with a focus on doing things to make your use “sticky” vs making you trip over yourself to buy something because it’s great. Amazon is full of counterfeit or low quality junk that one needs to navigate. AWS is muddling things with far too many random services thrown at the wall vs just being really good at a few core things. In today competitive environment account teams can’t really explain why we should use AWS apart from “we’re AWS” which is again an answer from a company aging into more stagnating maturity. The fine, while more than a rounding error, is still small. However it will hopefully help cut down on some of Amazon’s more annoying behaviors.

toast0 1y ago
> It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. It is and it isn't. The cost of shipping is built into the price of most of the items. You get a good deal if you buy things where pricing is more or less fixed, or if you buy things one at a time, but if you purchase several items at the same time, you can often save money if you purchase from a vendor that has better unit prices and charges shipping, or offers free shipping with a minimum order. I see this all the time with my hobby purchases. Amazon has everything (mostly), but it's more cost efficient to put together orders of multiple parts at other vendors. Sometimes just one part at another vendor works too, if it fits in an flat envelope and they charge appropriately for envelope shipping.
- phil21 1y ago
  It’s exceedingly rare for a vendor to be cheaper on shipping (and in total) than Amazon is for me. Especially if you consider shipping speed and return hassle/expense. Really depends on what you buy, but about half the time I buy from a vendor direct I end up regretting it if I’m in a hurry or not 100% certain of the product before ordering.

whatamidoingyo 1y ago

A few years ago, I got a new phone and a new number. I eventually went to Amazon, entered password, and then was prompted for the OTP, which was sent to my previous number (which I no longer had access to). I kept trying things until I was completely locked out of the account. I emailed them, no help. So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I just kept getting charged month after month (of which I'd just forget about it after getting angry for a minute). I'd hope that they fixed this. If an account is locked, it seems like it would be common sense to place a hold on any subscriptions associated with it.

packetlost 1y ago
lol you think they're going to actively put any effort towards something that isn't legally required and loses them money? Nah, there's no way they're going to implement that. I hope you issued chargebacks on your card for those charges.
TrainedMonkey 1y ago
Did the situation get resolved or are you still being charged? I need a resolution here STAT! In my personal experience, Amazon has an acceptable customer support when compared to Google, but nobody with that type of scale can even touch Apple's support experience.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  You get what you pay for? The "Apple Tax" provides support.
- whatamidoingyo 1y ago
  It eventually got resolved, yes. I had to call my bank and place a block on Amazon from charging my account.
gretch 1y ago
> I'd hope that they fixed this. If an account is locked, it seems like it would be common sense to place a hold on any subscriptions associated with it. The problem with this is you can deny someone's service very easily just by knowing publicly associated data (e.g. email address) and intentionally getting the password wrong a few times. > So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I just kept getting charged month after month (of which I'd just forget about it after getting angry for a minute). Most places have some law where you must be able to cancel by calling or some other path. But as a last line stop gap, you can contact your credit card company and deny the charges based on the inability to cancel. In fact, this is one of the explicit value propositions of an intermediary payment company.

jkestner 1y ago

Amazon is bad, but as others note, it’s insultingly transparent more than anything. But the worst in my recent history is Duolingo. Constant pestering to upgrade your subscription, fine, but once you do, it frequently “forgets” the subscription (through the App Store) and goes back to nagging you, only fixed by digging a few screens into the profile and tapping “restore purchases”. Bigger issue when your family is using it and doesn’t understand you’re already subscribed. Paid for two family subscriptions this way.

robotnikman 1y ago
It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying. If anyone has any recommended alternatives where I can learn Japanese I'm interested. Despite all the crap Duolingo has, it has been very convenient when it comes to spending 30 minutes at the end of the day doing some Japanese lessons.
- ascagnel_ 1y ago
  > It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying. Is this through their own storefront, or through a mobile storefront (Apple/Google)? While it's bad either way, Apple and Google specific styling around their subscription confirmation prompts, so I hope they haven't circumvented those somehow.
  - robotnikman 1y ago
    It seems to be through their own storefront in the app. Thankfully it doesn't automatically subscribe you at the end of the free trial.
- Macha 1y ago
  As for alternatives: Bunpro (grammar + vocab + kanji), Marumori (tries to do everything), Wanikani (kanji) are the ones usually recommended. Personally I used Bunpro + Wanikani. That said, you do need to spread your wings out of the apps eventually. Learning words 5000-6000 are less helpful than practicing listening in context for example.

al_borland 1y ago

I cancelled Prime last year after getting fed up with Amazon in several ways. Bringing ads to Prime Video was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I do still end up ordering from time to time, and the checkout process for non-Prime members is horrific. Multiple Prime sign-up offers that I always need to carefully read so I don’t click the wrong thing, illogical default shipping options, with more tricks to try and get the user to sign up for Prime while choosing shipping, after having already declined multiple times. I don’t know why any non-Prime customer would want to sign up for Prime after such a user-hostile experience full of dark patterns. I graphed out my orders since the start of my Amazon account. There was a steady uptrend over 20 years, with yearly growth since 2018. All of that ended 2023. My orders fell off a cliff, dropping by 60% in 2024. The treatment of non-Prime customers isn’t winning me back, it’s pushing me further away. I think my goal for 2026 will be not to order anything from Amazon. It’s been such a bad experience. Apparently their goal of being the world’s most customer-centric company only applies to Prime users. I hope this judgement will get them to change their ways, but I’m assuming they will do as little as possible to comply, and still pushing Prime hard.

udkl 1y ago
For good or for bad, I've switched to Walmart for many of my orders as well as home delivery of groceries now and then and they have been decent. It's good to have competitors who are catching up.
- inetknght 1y ago
  Do frozen foods get delivered still frozen? I live 15 minutes away from the nearest wal-mart and frozens/refrigerables are my biggest concern.
  - udkl 1y ago
    they don't do anything special for frozen items .... it's just as if you get it in bags from the store. .... add in additional time for neighborhood deliveries if any ..... usually they arrive semi-frozen .... you can track the delivery driver from the store (where they hopefully keep it in a cold room) to your home... for me it takes them from 20 mins to 1 hour for delivery ...

lanewinfield 1y ago

[flagged]

baobabKoodaa 1y ago
Brian what is this comment? Am I part of a new performance art experiment just by reading this?
apex3stoker 1y ago
Biden administration had a regulation to make canceling subscription as easy as signing up, but the regulation got vacated by US Court of Appeals for the 8th circuit. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/click-to-cancel-rule-to-make-canceling-subscriptions-easier-blocked-by-court https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/click-to-cancel-rule-to-...
dimgl 1y ago
So now we're getting AI slop on Hacker News too?
- bjacobel 1y ago
  Hey now, I'm sure that this one-emdash-per-paragraph comment is organic and genuine.
- baobabKoodaa 1y ago
  Check the profile. That's the author of GOODY-2. I don't get the point of posting AI slop either, but I'm guessing it's part of another "art project" of his.
  - dimgl 1y ago
    Not really attacking the poster, just tired of my eyes being assaulted by this kind of writing everywhere now.
    - ssl-3 1y ago
      It's just a summary — of a summary ⸺ of a summary ⸻ of a summary. Why would anyone tire of something like that? (/s)

ebayprime 1y ago

i canceled my amazon and now use ebay for everything.

RandomBacon 1y ago
I always check both. Ironically, I buy more books from eBay than Amazon.

breadwinner 1y ago

I would like Amazon to be fined another Billion for not notifying customers about the annual renewal. They sneak the charge on to your credit card, and you have no easy way to find out what the charge is for.

paulvnickerson 1y ago
Why not make it a trillion!
bobdaicon979 1y ago
Can't forget the hidden subscriptions within PrimeTV millions of people were charged for, for more than a year in some cases. This should be its own lawsuit.

sib 1y ago

It's sad to see it come to this. When I worked there (more than a decade ago) senior leaders and old-timers were extremely proud of the fact that they did things like sending "your Prime membership will renew in (a month - I think) - be sure to cancel if you don't want it to" emails. This was quite different from typical subscription services providers at the time. In fact, I had more than one old-timer mention that they would ask employment candidates about the Prime pricing and renewal strategy and that candidates who said something along the lines of "it's best for people to subscribe and then never use it so we make margin on the service revenue" (along the lines of gym business models) would be rejected. They really wanted people to want to be Prime members (this was even before Bezos' famous "you'd be irresponsible not to be a Prime member" comment...)

rose-knuckle17 1y ago
Amazon started going downhill when they started losing their founding builders and started hiring cisco and other silicon valley insiders at executive levels. The Amazon Way is now a quaint retrospective, and the quality and attractiveness are quickly moving to the lowest common denominator.
mikert89 1y ago
I think the company just took retail and AWS to their logical conclusion, and so the old culture doesn’t even make sense
rendaw 1y ago
That's impressive but man what an unfair hiring policy. A candidate is trying to guess corporate culture, makes the wrong guess, and then you reject them? It's a coin flip.
- Nasrudith 1y ago
  Isn't that most social culture? Expecting people to be psychic to your unspoken or vaguely hinted desires and then promoting people for telling you what you want to hear vs what you need to hear?

paxys 1y ago

Amazon makes $50B per year from Prime, and there are an estimated 240 million subscribers. $10/user is an insanely cheap price for user acquisition (basically equivalent to a 1 month free deal), and any company will happily take this deal 10 times out of 10.

GuB-42 1y ago

I don't really understand all the fuss about Amazon Prime. I found it really easy to cancel. They even refunded me when I canceled my subscription after the free trial expired (forgot to cancel before that despite being notified). Clicking passed the "look at what you will lose if you cancel" screen is not my idea of "hard". Yes, they push for subscriptions, usually using promotional offers. It is called marketing, and Amazon is relatively mild in that regard. Maybe it could create a precedent and make the majority of subscription services pay.

guywithahat 1y ago
My experience is they're more aggressive about prime ads when they think they can get you. So I'd get a bunch of ads and an extra screen to join prime student, and the buttons are deliberately confusing. But I agree. It's just an extra button you have to press. Annoying, but not the worst thing a company has done to me
jstummbillig 1y ago
> I don't really understand all the fuss about Amazon Prime. Oh, the fuss is because Amazon is big. The big players receive a lot of scrutiny. > I found it really easy to cancel. I find it a lot easier to sign up. I think that's the issue at play here.

niwtsol 1y ago

I moved my prime account to be on a family plan. Their systems sent me, IDK, 15 messages telling me my prime benefits were going away and to sign up. Either they completely do not cross validate that I had moved to another prime subscription, or, based off my read of this article, they really just wanted two people in the same household paying for prime for no reason.

sershe 1y ago

For me prime still works fine most of the time. And so much random crap is overnight nowadays! Nothing like ordering a vent cap, finding it doesn't quite fit due to peculiar siding, and immediately returning and overnighting a different one for free. I just wish they'd pick up returns if they are rare enough, having to make a 10 minute stop to do it myself is completely unacceptable ;)

HardwareLust 1y ago

Oh boy, can't wait to get my $4 off coupon in June of 2030.

ProllyInfamous 1y ago
I feel your apathy, friend. Our local parking authority (meter maids) just paid out a massive settlement (/s): each claimant gets four (4) twenty-five cent (25¢) parking credits (==$1.00), which expire within one month. They also raised parking rates by about that much, per hour. Winning! /s

tim333 1y ago

They got me a little a couple of months ago. I had a free prime trial, then clicked cancel which was easy enough but it didn't cancel because I didn't notice after cancel there was an 'are you sure you really want to cancel' which I missed. Such is the way of the game I guess.

dijit 1y ago

$2.5B. I genuinely can't fathom these numbers. As in: it could be $25B or $250M and it would mean the same to me. Does this materially impact Amazon? I'm (really) not a fan of Amazon, but to me that's an existential amount of money. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where that kind of money wouldn't be a "ok, I guess we're closing down, turn off the lights when you leave" situation, and I've worked at some large companies. I'm not usually exposed to financials I guess but my burn rate for my last (very small) company was about $4-5M/y roughly. This amount of money would keep us all gainfully employed for about 500 years.

luigman 1y ago
Amazon made $638B in revenue, $60B profit in 2024. Yes $2.5B fine is a lot but it will not significantly hurt the company
- Bjartr 1y ago
  Losing out on 2.4% of profit isn't nothing. It's not an existential therat to the company, sure, but this seems a more real consequence for wrongdoing than many other penalties I've seen against companies over the years.

kingnothing 1y ago

Amazon's 2024 net income (profit) was $59B on $638B revenue. The median US household income is $80k and has a savings rate (profit) of 3.6%, or $2880. This $2.5B fine is equivalent to the average US household being fined $115 or, basically, a traffic ticket.

robomc 1y ago

I found out recently that I've been paying for Prime Video since 2020. I think I did legitimately sign up for it. That's not my complaint. But it's fairly scummy how it doesn't seem to send you any email, the payments have a very vague generic coding like "AMZ2318971239", and the actual subscription management is super buried. I only noticed it, after years of using Amazon a fair bit, when I went deep into my account panes looking for something else.

mmacvicarprett 1y ago

Can they pay with stock?

nunez 1y ago

lol they're STILL doing this. As of the time this was written, if you go through the order flow for anything, at any price, the first shipping option will be "get one-day shipping FREE with Amazon Prime", wrapped in a huge CTA. Between that and checkout is a "are you sure?" nag screen where they tell you all of the benefits of going Prime. I don't shop at Amazon nearly as much as I did in past years, but I was shocked to see how challenging it was to voluntarily pay for one-day shipping because of all of this!

miladyincontrol 1y ago

I just wish I could get prime without all the videoslop and other content absolutely unrelated my interest in speedy parcel delivery. No other service I use forces such inane bundling.

ankurdhama 1y ago

Please fine $1B more for providing only SD stream on Linux.

bobdaicon979 1y ago

Thank you, Lina Khan.

patrickprunty 1y ago

[dead]

fennecbutt 1y ago

Yeah I unsubscribed a while ago. Noticed immediately whenever I ordered anything from amazon that it's always like "free shipping" - it's a lie, ofc it's free shipping by signing up to prime. But at checkout they show a "free shipping" option with very small subtext that it's a prime membership. Whats the point of fining them? It's not gonna change the system of endless growth for the shareholders, multi million dollar executive salaries for executives who don't know anything about what their business does and have zero forward planning or responsibility.

jiveturkey 1y ago

HN headline is wrong. AMZN not fined 2.5B, they were fined 1B and have to refund 1.5B to consumers. The original article (at this time anyway) has an accurate headline. It's really too bad the FTC settled and AMZN gets to admit no fault. What is the incentive for FTC to simply not pursue this to the bitter end? 1B is literally pocket change to the fed government, and is laugh-meme moment for Amazon. $50 back to each user is also not even worth claiming. So the settlement is just FTC not doing their job. Disclaimer: I willingly use Prime and doubt I'd ever leave.

crudgen 1y ago

Interesting that there is consumer protection in US. But aren't dark patterns like everywhere?

sandspar 1y ago

I love Amazon Prime. I pay like $15 a month and get one-day shipping on pretty much every product on Earth. Coming from the old days of waiting two weeks for every package, 1 day shipping is a godsend. I never tire of it. Plus I get a reasonable catalog of popular movies to play in the background while I do chores.

supermatt 1y ago

Meanwhile, in the EU… I forgot to cancel prime after a free trial - twice! Noticed a few days after they billed my account. Contacted support and they cancelled and refunded me. Not out of the goodness of their hearts of course - A 14 day right of withdrawal is part of EU consumer rights.

tsoukase 1y ago

I stayed signed up on Prime for 15 months at 2020-21 without realising it and how it started. Awful experience and practices of shady gangsters. Jeff go to f.. hell. I want my 120E back from this fine.