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IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape

IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. I think a very high application fee is actually part of a good solution, but is useless by itself. A flawed proposal: * Dispense with the 'need to search for a qualified American' which just complicates the process without achieving the stated goal, and includes a ton of legal and bureaucratic expense and time. * A large application fee paid from the company to the federal government. * The worker's relocation expenses must also be covered by the company. * The worker gets a 10 year work authorization on the day of their arrival. * The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. The latter bullet is the key one. That's the one that uses market forces to truly enforces this person is being paid above market wages, and is being treated well, at their sponsoring employer. (which in turn means they don't undercut existing labor in the market). It also means that employers don't really look abroad unless there really is a shortage of existing labor. But when there is a true shortage and you're willing to spend, the door is open to act quickly. The obvious defect is that it creates an incentive for the employee to pay the federal fee themselves (hidden) plus more for the privilege of getting sponsored, and the company basically being a front for this process. Effectively buying a work authorization for themselves. I'm not sure how to overcome that. Then again, the current system could also suffer that defect (I don't know how common it is).

bogdan 1y ago
* The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. You almost had me there.
- kelseyfrog 1y ago
  The alternative is tying employment to freedom of mobility. We can do better than bonding people by immigration status. This might be controversial, but I don't think should be bonding people at all.
  - bogdan 1y ago
    You're taking a all or nothing stance. There must be a middle-ground where employers don't risk getting "scammed".
    - kelseyfrog 1y ago
      Is it ever ok to legally or economically force people or effectively force people to work? I'm open to hearing why it's ok, but it's going to take a lot of evidence to convince me that a company's well-being is part of that calculus.
leakycap 1y ago
No company would ever sponsor someone if the last bullet is part of the deal. You're just killing the visa program another way with that wishlist item alone.
- mcny 1y ago
  If you just want someone and not this particular applicant, yes but if you want a particular person to work for you, you will sponsor them regardless of this bullet point.
  - DrewADesign 1y ago
    I totally support bringing in actual specialists, or fantastically talented people from abroad… but it’s painfully obvious how infrequently that happens. I worked with an H1B doing L2 support in the mid aughts. The position required significant knowledge of networking, but nothing close to even a mid-career enterprise network administrator, and it wasn’t a rare skillset for the area. We had plenty of very local candidates when we hired people before, but suddenly, new management decided it was an incredibly specialized, difficult-to-fill, rare job that paid locals an eye-watering 70k/year to start but paid an H1Bs far less than that I assume.
    - SilverbeardUnix 1y ago
      That's the problem. H1B visa is for talent that is almost impossible to get domestically. It should be for bringing in actual specialist.
- Retric 1y ago
  Not for an interchange cog. However you can keep someone with a golden handcuffs deal at above market rates if there’s some reason to bring that specific person.
- jltsiren 1y ago
  That's pretty common in Europe. Temporary work permits can be valid either for a specific job or a specific industry. In the latter case, as long as you can find a job that meets the requirements in a reasonable time, you can quit and stay in the country. But those work permits mostly concern the individual and the government. The employer is not as much sponsoring them as providing evidence.
mlyle 1y ago
You never get someone to pay a large application fee without some kind of reasonable prospect of getting an exclusive right. Else, if company A pays a $100k fee, company B has an incentive to give the worker $90,000 more to jump ship. And this devolves to no one paying the $100k fee.
- Retric 1y ago
  Only if employees are actually interchangeable at the rate you’re paying. You might bring someone from oversees who knows your internal systems and is therefore worth far above market rates to your company relative to any other US company.
  - gambiting 1y ago
    Then it's not H1B visa anymore - internal employee transfers use different mechanisms.
    - Retric 1y ago
      An L Vista is designed for internal employee transfers, but that may not apply.
- CobrastanJorji 1y ago
  What if we make the fee per-year? "It costs $10,000 to sponsor a new H1B immigrant's entry, and then it costs $5,000 per year per H-1B employee you have." H1-B holder is free to leave, and the cost of that happening to their employer is fairly low. Then let's say after 5 years of H1B employment, you automatically become eligible for citizenship, since you're clearly a valued worker.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    That's what they're doing, it's going to be $100k per year to sponsor, up to 6 years.
abfan1127 1y ago
who in their right mind would shell out 100k + relocation and not require some level of commitment?
- atomicnumber3 1y ago
  People who are going to pay them enough money that they stay specifically because of the money? The whole reason most people stay at jobs? (Theoretically) That's the whole point. It distorts market forces when companies are allowed to just trap people.
- nothercastle 1y ago
  If the talent is that good and you are paying above market you would. Not much different than a signing bonus
  - sgerenser 1y ago
    Signing bonuses almost universally have a 1-year clawback (or are otherwise only doled out periodically and not all up front), so not a good analogy here.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
  They had no problem offering 7-figure salaries to PhDs with research experience in AI a few years ago. Those are the exceptional workers the program was supposed to be bringing in the first place, not dime-a-dozen JS vibe coders.
- Salgat 1y ago
  A company paying half a million annually to ensure this employee is retained. It's not meant for joe sixpack making $100k/yr as an underpaid consultant.
jpadkins 1y ago
hard disagree on the 'search for qualified citizen' or something to replace it. American policy needs to put Americans first. Your other points are a good start. The main thing I would add is a floor on salary. H1B for a >$200k job makes some sense, it shows it's essential, the employer really wants to fill it and is having a hard time finding a US citizen. H1B for average or below average salaries is where the real abuse is. It's basically a form of indentured servitude.
- Loughla 1y ago
  The search for a qualified citizen is a sham process. Why shouldn't it be eliminated? Make the incentives align with the priority, is what OP was getting at. I'm with OP. Make it crazy expensive and let the employee quit if they want. Employers will immediately build the 'search for qualified citizens' into the process themselves.
  - jpadkins 1y ago
    I agree the current process is broken. I disagree that you don't replace it with something workable. Like many govt regulations, it's several decades out of date. Heck, a simple "I submit under the penalty of perjury that at least 10 US permanent residents have had good faith interviews for this position." type submission would be sufficient for me. HR people aren't going to want to commit a felony for their company, so the scams are going to go way down.
- frogblast 1y ago
  I agree with the protectionism aspect, to a degree. I also believe the current system does not achieve that in any way.
RealityVoid 1y ago
You care about that, and you say that's the problem with H1B but I think that, really, a lot of tech workers in the US, and even a lot of the HN crowd _really_ care about protectionism. They want to suppress competition for their jobs, they want to keep their salaries high. I think this is myopic, but... What the heck, your country is speed running some interesting trajectory, this measure is the not even the biggest one on the radical measures pile.
- mancerayder 1y ago
  What's myopic about keeping your salary high? Most people work for themselves an their families, not how their countries will appear economically in three decades? The situation of wage suppression helps investors and the owning class more than anything.
  - RealityVoid 1y ago
    If you see near, but you don't see far, that's myopic. Even you agree with this in your post. Therefore, I don't see where the confusion comes from. You can argue you only care about the now and, sure, if that's all you care about, who am I to say your priorities are wrong? I do think that you're wrong though, I think it doesn't make you better off neither now nor in the following years. But, again, who the heck am I to tell you how to run your country. I guess we'll see how this plays out.
    - mancerayder 1y ago
      For that matter it's not necessarily my country, despite my being here, and I don't necessarily have just one country I'm attached to. I'm not particularly nationalistic. However I do care about how retirement might look and how much I will have saved. It's almost as if you are implying I should accept a wage cut for the good of my country. (How that's good for the country and not just for a select few percent at the top of my country eludes me)
ericmcer 1y ago
The last one is tricky because who is going to sponsor a worker at the price tag of 100k with no guarantee of performance. That is rife for abuse. You could get google to sponsor you and then hop to your friends startup on day one. It is reasonable that if you get a temporary visa to perform work in another country, and you decide you don't want to do that work anymore, you leave. They aren't enslaved or anything if the work is not worth it you can attempt to transfer your status to another employer or leave.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ohyoutravel 1y ago
  Thank you! I am so, so sick of not a single person in this thread (except you <3) looking out for Google’s shareholder value.
- alexandre_m 1y ago
  It seems the best way is to sponsor a seat and not a particular individual. That way you can rotate persons for the same paid h1-b seat.
pcl 1y ago
> The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. I'm not familiar with current H1B law, but what prevents this from happening today? I've hired away an H1B holder in the past; the process wasn't particularly difficult. My understanding at the time was that the tricky thing for H1B holders is that they can only have a 60-day gap of unemployment before they need to leave the country (or find a different visa resolution, I guess). Now, if this new fee applies to H1B transfers as well as the initial application, well, that'll actually make it harder for H1B holders to change jobs.
phendrenad2 1y ago
It seems like there are two conflicting forces here. We want to ensure that we accept mostly high-skilled immigrants, so we can't do a pure lottery. But anything less than a pure lottery and immigrants are forced to "perform" or be kicked from the country, they will end up "both paid lower and unable to escape abuse" as you say. I don't know that it's possible to solve this satisfactorily.
- arwhatever 1y ago
  Index the H1B quantities issued to the unemployment rate per job specialty + geographic region?
- czl 1y ago
  Why is a lottery necessary? There is a quota so why not fill it with those being paid the highest compensation? What's wrong with a market solution? It would bring in those who are most in demand. What better way to measure demand than prices?
  - phendrenad2 1y ago
    I mean, yeah, I was assuming that we have immigration at all. A lottery allows a natural influx of people, who are free to find their way into whatever jobs are needed. It's another form of market solution, but more of a push model than a pull model. But it also, logically, reduces wages across the board (to some degree). A pull-based model, where companies compete to bid for visa slots, lowers wages in high-end roles, because visa holders are beholden to their sponsor company, and uprooting and moving back to your home country is not something to be taken lightly.
bobthepanda 1y ago
The other thing I've heard is to sort the priority of who gets H1B by projected salary which would go a long way to eliminate anyone trying to get people to train their lower paid replacements.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
  Forcing citizens to train their foreign replacements is a violation of the terms of the program and illegal. Disney did that and, while not being held accountable, they were forced to reverse their criminal decision.
  - grepfru_it 1y ago
    I was a person training Disney’s replacements. In reality a major tech company hired a small consulting company and had them (me) train Indian replacements on the software. It appeared as regular training that we did in foreign countries and nothing was amiss. Until the news broke. So maybe Disney had a plan for replacement all along, the training wasn’t necessarily done by Disney employees and the contractors surely did not know either
danielfoster 1y ago
The last bullet is a good idea but wouldn’t work in practice. Otherwise a company could hire someone else’s H1B worker for $10k more per year and avoid the $100k fee.
- l___l 1y ago
  Maybe a company that hires someone else's H1B worker for $10k more per year in the first year has to pay the $100k fee and the first company gets their fee back.
basejumping 1y ago
They should set a very high salary as a criteria for hiring someone from abroad. You want exceptional people, not regular people that you pay less than the ones you find in your own country.
apwell23 1y ago
> * Dispense with the 'need to search for a qualified American' which just complicates the process without achieving the stated goal, and includes a ton of legal and bureaucratic expense and time. Most H1B go through perm process that does this already.
singron 1y ago
Instead of a $100k lump sum by the first employer, what about $10k each year by the current employer? Or even $2.5k each quarter? That way there is no particular incentive to poach a "paid-off" H1B employee, and the company doesn't have to worry about making a $100k investment up front.
- wnc3141 1y ago
  But then you can't make a placement firm selling access to the US job market.
duped 1y ago
I mean I'll admit I'm a bit of a radical on this issue, but I think the most sensible work authorization policy is "you're welcome if you're not a criminal, terrorist, or public health risk, and on that last point here's some penicillin and a flu/covid shot, let us know when you're feeling better" My ancestors came here ~140 years ago when the only "visa" process was a look in the mouth at Ellis Island. I don't see any fundamental reason why we need to have stricter regulations than that, and I reject dragging the Overton window further right on immigration.
- Chinjut 1y ago
  Hear, hear.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- stackedinserter 1y ago
  In 3 months after implementing this policy there will be ports of entry full of people who paid any money to get to the US and that ready to share beds and work for $4/hour. Salaries will plummet, rent will skyrocket, crime will go up, quality of life will drop. Your neighbors will have to move out and new tenants will be 20+ people who don't speak your language and share none of your values. Funny thing is those who opened the gate will be protected from consequences of their own policies in their gated communities. That's what we see here in Canada after reckless immigration policies implemented by past government.
  - duped 1y ago
    I wish I lived someplace where we could take the huddled masses yearning to breathe free instead of a place where they're literally rounding up my neighbors for the crime of wanting a better life. For what it's worth I know multiple people who have been turned away from Canada because their immigration laws are even stricter than ours. So I don't know how much you can attribute your lack of housing to immigration.
    - deleted 1y ago
gorbachev 1y ago
> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. This is not true. Transferring your H1-B to another employer is entirely possible, the new employer will have to file the application as usual, but the application is not subject to the annual H1-B quotas. At least this was the way it was several years ago. I doubt the process has changed since.
- jonny_eh 1y ago
  Would they now have to also pay the $1k fee for a "transfer"? AFAIK, it's considered a new application, but as you stated, its excluded from the quota/lottery.
  - gorbachev 1y ago
    The fees apply to every application.
    - jonny_eh 1y ago
      That'll certainly make transfers much harder to get.
truncate 1y ago
>> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. This is not true. Typically you want to stay until i140 which for me took 1 year or so back in 2020. If I want to switch there are multiple other reasons I'd end up delaying the switch anyway (wait for vest, bonus etc ...)
Aurornis 1y ago
> * The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. This would be workable if it also results in the person losing their visa. There must be some downside for the employee, otherwise it's an invitation for abuse. If the worker gets to keep their visa then it's just a backdoor way to get a company to pay for their visa and relocation so they can immediately quit and then go do some other job they actually want (at no expense to the next employer).
- digianarchist 1y ago
  The final scenario you describe already happens with immigrant visas. Once you have your Green Card you are free to quit the sponsoring employer and work for whoever you want.
kelvinjps 1y ago
Your proposal is the same as shutting down the program, no company will take this? Like what's the benefit?
- delusional 1y ago
  Isn't getting specialized workers (who you supposedly can't hire from the national talent pool) incentive enough? My understanding of the H1B system is that it was supposed to be a "last resort, exit hatch" sort of a programme.
never_inline 1y ago
> It also means that employers don't really look abroad unless there really is a shortage of existing labor. But when there is a true shortage and you're willing to spend, the door is open to act quickly. You underestimate the ability of INFY/TCS etc.. to game these laws.
gchamonlive 1y ago
> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. > I think a very high application fee is actually part of a good solution, but is useless by itself. This is always going to be bad if you compare to what any functioning democracy should be doing in this situation which to revert the deterioration of wages and punish/reeducate abusers. I admit it's idealistic, but if you could suspend the need for political realism here a moment there is a chance you could see this is only logical.

bogdan 1y ago

* The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. You almost had me there.

kelseyfrog 1y ago
The alternative is tying employment to freedom of mobility. We can do better than bonding people by immigration status. This might be controversial, but I don't think should be bonding people at all.
- bogdan 1y ago
  You're taking a all or nothing stance. There must be a middle-ground where employers don't risk getting "scammed".
  - kelseyfrog 1y ago
    Is it ever ok to legally or economically force people or effectively force people to work? I'm open to hearing why it's ok, but it's going to take a lot of evidence to convince me that a company's well-being is part of that calculus.

leakycap 1y ago

No company would ever sponsor someone if the last bullet is part of the deal. You're just killing the visa program another way with that wishlist item alone.

mcny 1y ago
If you just want someone and not this particular applicant, yes but if you want a particular person to work for you, you will sponsor them regardless of this bullet point.
- DrewADesign 1y ago
  I totally support bringing in actual specialists, or fantastically talented people from abroad… but it’s painfully obvious how infrequently that happens. I worked with an H1B doing L2 support in the mid aughts. The position required significant knowledge of networking, but nothing close to even a mid-career enterprise network administrator, and it wasn’t a rare skillset for the area. We had plenty of very local candidates when we hired people before, but suddenly, new management decided it was an incredibly specialized, difficult-to-fill, rare job that paid locals an eye-watering 70k/year to start but paid an H1Bs far less than that I assume.
  - SilverbeardUnix 1y ago
    That's the problem. H1B visa is for talent that is almost impossible to get domestically. It should be for bringing in actual specialist.
Retric 1y ago
Not for an interchange cog. However you can keep someone with a golden handcuffs deal at above market rates if there’s some reason to bring that specific person.
jltsiren 1y ago
That's pretty common in Europe. Temporary work permits can be valid either for a specific job or a specific industry. In the latter case, as long as you can find a job that meets the requirements in a reasonable time, you can quit and stay in the country. But those work permits mostly concern the individual and the government. The employer is not as much sponsoring them as providing evidence.

mlyle 1y ago

You never get someone to pay a large application fee without some kind of reasonable prospect of getting an exclusive right. Else, if company A pays a $100k fee, company B has an incentive to give the worker $90,000 more to jump ship. And this devolves to no one paying the $100k fee.

Retric 1y ago
Only if employees are actually interchangeable at the rate you’re paying. You might bring someone from oversees who knows your internal systems and is therefore worth far above market rates to your company relative to any other US company.
- gambiting 1y ago
  Then it's not H1B visa anymore - internal employee transfers use different mechanisms.
  - Retric 1y ago
    An L Vista is designed for internal employee transfers, but that may not apply.
CobrastanJorji 1y ago
What if we make the fee per-year? "It costs $10,000 to sponsor a new H1B immigrant's entry, and then it costs $5,000 per year per H-1B employee you have." H1-B holder is free to leave, and the cost of that happening to their employer is fairly low. Then let's say after 5 years of H1B employment, you automatically become eligible for citizenship, since you're clearly a valued worker.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  That's what they're doing, it's going to be $100k per year to sponsor, up to 6 years.

abfan1127 1y ago

who in their right mind would shell out 100k + relocation and not require some level of commitment?

atomicnumber3 1y ago
People who are going to pay them enough money that they stay specifically because of the money? The whole reason most people stay at jobs? (Theoretically) That's the whole point. It distorts market forces when companies are allowed to just trap people.
nothercastle 1y ago
If the talent is that good and you are paying above market you would. Not much different than a signing bonus
- sgerenser 1y ago
  Signing bonuses almost universally have a 1-year clawback (or are otherwise only doled out periodically and not all up front), so not a good analogy here.
kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
They had no problem offering 7-figure salaries to PhDs with research experience in AI a few years ago. Those are the exceptional workers the program was supposed to be bringing in the first place, not dime-a-dozen JS vibe coders.
Salgat 1y ago
A company paying half a million annually to ensure this employee is retained. It's not meant for joe sixpack making $100k/yr as an underpaid consultant.

jpadkins 1y ago

hard disagree on the 'search for qualified citizen' or something to replace it. American policy needs to put Americans first. Your other points are a good start. The main thing I would add is a floor on salary. H1B for a >$200k job makes some sense, it shows it's essential, the employer really wants to fill it and is having a hard time finding a US citizen. H1B for average or below average salaries is where the real abuse is. It's basically a form of indentured servitude.

Loughla 1y ago
The search for a qualified citizen is a sham process. Why shouldn't it be eliminated? Make the incentives align with the priority, is what OP was getting at. I'm with OP. Make it crazy expensive and let the employee quit if they want. Employers will immediately build the 'search for qualified citizens' into the process themselves.
- jpadkins 1y ago
  I agree the current process is broken. I disagree that you don't replace it with something workable. Like many govt regulations, it's several decades out of date. Heck, a simple "I submit under the penalty of perjury that at least 10 US permanent residents have had good faith interviews for this position." type submission would be sufficient for me. HR people aren't going to want to commit a felony for their company, so the scams are going to go way down.
frogblast 1y ago
I agree with the protectionism aspect, to a degree. I also believe the current system does not achieve that in any way.

RealityVoid 1y ago

You care about that, and you say that's the problem with H1B but I think that, really, a lot of tech workers in the US, and even a lot of the HN crowd _really_ care about protectionism. They want to suppress competition for their jobs, they want to keep their salaries high. I think this is myopic, but... What the heck, your country is speed running some interesting trajectory, this measure is the not even the biggest one on the radical measures pile.

mancerayder 1y ago
What's myopic about keeping your salary high? Most people work for themselves an their families, not how their countries will appear economically in three decades? The situation of wage suppression helps investors and the owning class more than anything.
- RealityVoid 1y ago
  If you see near, but you don't see far, that's myopic. Even you agree with this in your post. Therefore, I don't see where the confusion comes from. You can argue you only care about the now and, sure, if that's all you care about, who am I to say your priorities are wrong? I do think that you're wrong though, I think it doesn't make you better off neither now nor in the following years. But, again, who the heck am I to tell you how to run your country. I guess we'll see how this plays out.
  - mancerayder 1y ago
    For that matter it's not necessarily my country, despite my being here, and I don't necessarily have just one country I'm attached to. I'm not particularly nationalistic. However I do care about how retirement might look and how much I will have saved. It's almost as if you are implying I should accept a wage cut for the good of my country. (How that's good for the country and not just for a select few percent at the top of my country eludes me)

ericmcer 1y ago

The last one is tricky because who is going to sponsor a worker at the price tag of 100k with no guarantee of performance. That is rife for abuse. You could get google to sponsor you and then hop to your friends startup on day one. It is reasonable that if you get a temporary visa to perform work in another country, and you decide you don't want to do that work anymore, you leave. They aren't enslaved or anything if the work is not worth it you can attempt to transfer your status to another employer or leave.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
ohyoutravel 1y ago
Thank you! I am so, so sick of not a single person in this thread (except you <3) looking out for Google’s shareholder value.
alexandre_m 1y ago
It seems the best way is to sponsor a seat and not a particular individual. That way you can rotate persons for the same paid h1-b seat.

pcl 1y ago

> The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. I'm not familiar with current H1B law, but what prevents this from happening today? I've hired away an H1B holder in the past; the process wasn't particularly difficult. My understanding at the time was that the tricky thing for H1B holders is that they can only have a 60-day gap of unemployment before they need to leave the country (or find a different visa resolution, I guess). Now, if this new fee applies to H1B transfers as well as the initial application, well, that'll actually make it harder for H1B holders to change jobs.

phendrenad2 1y ago

It seems like there are two conflicting forces here. We want to ensure that we accept mostly high-skilled immigrants, so we can't do a pure lottery. But anything less than a pure lottery and immigrants are forced to "perform" or be kicked from the country, they will end up "both paid lower and unable to escape abuse" as you say. I don't know that it's possible to solve this satisfactorily.

arwhatever 1y ago
Index the H1B quantities issued to the unemployment rate per job specialty + geographic region?
czl 1y ago
Why is a lottery necessary? There is a quota so why not fill it with those being paid the highest compensation? What's wrong with a market solution? It would bring in those who are most in demand. What better way to measure demand than prices?
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  I mean, yeah, I was assuming that we have immigration at all. A lottery allows a natural influx of people, who are free to find their way into whatever jobs are needed. It's another form of market solution, but more of a push model than a pull model. But it also, logically, reduces wages across the board (to some degree). A pull-based model, where companies compete to bid for visa slots, lowers wages in high-end roles, because visa holders are beholden to their sponsor company, and uprooting and moving back to your home country is not something to be taken lightly.

bobthepanda 1y ago

The other thing I've heard is to sort the priority of who gets H1B by projected salary which would go a long way to eliminate anyone trying to get people to train their lower paid replacements.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
Forcing citizens to train their foreign replacements is a violation of the terms of the program and illegal. Disney did that and, while not being held accountable, they were forced to reverse their criminal decision.
- grepfru_it 1y ago
  I was a person training Disney’s replacements. In reality a major tech company hired a small consulting company and had them (me) train Indian replacements on the software. It appeared as regular training that we did in foreign countries and nothing was amiss. Until the news broke. So maybe Disney had a plan for replacement all along, the training wasn’t necessarily done by Disney employees and the contractors surely did not know either

danielfoster 1y ago

The last bullet is a good idea but wouldn’t work in practice. Otherwise a company could hire someone else’s H1B worker for $10k more per year and avoid the $100k fee.

l___l 1y ago
Maybe a company that hires someone else's H1B worker for $10k more per year in the first year has to pay the $100k fee and the first company gets their fee back.

basejumping 1y ago

They should set a very high salary as a criteria for hiring someone from abroad. You want exceptional people, not regular people that you pay less than the ones you find in your own country.

apwell23 1y ago

> * Dispense with the 'need to search for a qualified American' which just complicates the process without achieving the stated goal, and includes a ton of legal and bureaucratic expense and time. Most H1B go through perm process that does this already.

singron 1y ago

Instead of a $100k lump sum by the first employer, what about $10k each year by the current employer? Or even $2.5k each quarter? That way there is no particular incentive to poach a "paid-off" H1B employee, and the company doesn't have to worry about making a $100k investment up front.

wnc3141 1y ago
But then you can't make a placement firm selling access to the US job market.

duped 1y ago

I mean I'll admit I'm a bit of a radical on this issue, but I think the most sensible work authorization policy is "you're welcome if you're not a criminal, terrorist, or public health risk, and on that last point here's some penicillin and a flu/covid shot, let us know when you're feeling better" My ancestors came here ~140 years ago when the only "visa" process was a look in the mouth at Ellis Island. I don't see any fundamental reason why we need to have stricter regulations than that, and I reject dragging the Overton window further right on immigration.

Chinjut 1y ago
Hear, hear.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
stackedinserter 1y ago
In 3 months after implementing this policy there will be ports of entry full of people who paid any money to get to the US and that ready to share beds and work for $4/hour. Salaries will plummet, rent will skyrocket, crime will go up, quality of life will drop. Your neighbors will have to move out and new tenants will be 20+ people who don't speak your language and share none of your values. Funny thing is those who opened the gate will be protected from consequences of their own policies in their gated communities. That's what we see here in Canada after reckless immigration policies implemented by past government.
- duped 1y ago
  I wish I lived someplace where we could take the huddled masses yearning to breathe free instead of a place where they're literally rounding up my neighbors for the crime of wanting a better life. For what it's worth I know multiple people who have been turned away from Canada because their immigration laws are even stricter than ours. So I don't know how much you can attribute your lack of housing to immigration.
  - deleted 1y ago

gorbachev 1y ago

> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. This is not true. Transferring your H1-B to another employer is entirely possible, the new employer will have to file the application as usual, but the application is not subject to the annual H1-B quotas. At least this was the way it was several years ago. I doubt the process has changed since.

jonny_eh 1y ago
Would they now have to also pay the $1k fee for a "transfer"? AFAIK, it's considered a new application, but as you stated, its excluded from the quota/lottery.
- gorbachev 1y ago
  The fees apply to every application.
  - jonny_eh 1y ago
    That'll certainly make transfers much harder to get.

truncate 1y ago

>> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. This is not true. Typically you want to stay until i140 which for me took 1 year or so back in 2020. If I want to switch there are multiple other reasons I'd end up delaying the switch anyway (wait for vest, bonus etc ...)

Aurornis 1y ago

> * The worker gets to leave their sponsoring employer on the day of their arrival, if they choose to. The employment contract may not include any clawbacks of anything. This would be workable if it also results in the person losing their visa. There must be some downside for the employee, otherwise it's an invitation for abuse. If the worker gets to keep their visa then it's just a backdoor way to get a company to pay for their visa and relocation so they can immediately quit and then go do some other job they actually want (at no expense to the next employer).

digianarchist 1y ago
The final scenario you describe already happens with immigrant visas. Once you have your Green Card you are free to quit the sponsoring employer and work for whoever you want.

kelvinjps 1y ago

Your proposal is the same as shutting down the program, no company will take this? Like what's the benefit?

delusional 1y ago
Isn't getting specialized workers (who you supposedly can't hire from the national talent pool) incentive enough? My understanding of the H1B system is that it was supposed to be a "last resort, exit hatch" sort of a programme.

never_inline 1y ago

> It also means that employers don't really look abroad unless there really is a shortage of existing labor. But when there is a true shortage and you're willing to spend, the door is open to act quickly. You underestimate the ability of INFY/TCS etc.. to game these laws.

gchamonlive 1y ago

> IMO the problem is that H1B employees are stuck at the employer for the duration of their green card process, and so end up both paid lower and unable to escape abuse. > I think a very high application fee is actually part of a good solution, but is useless by itself. This is always going to be bad if you compare to what any functioning democracy should be doing in this situation which to revert the deterioration of wages and punish/reeducate abusers. I admit it's idealistic, but if you could suspend the need for political realism here a moment there is a chance you could see this is only logical.