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I've been following this on X/Twitter and I think one of the most egregious things that's important to point out is that folks from Phrack reached out to Proton

I've been following this on X/Twitter and I think one of the most egregious things that's important to point out is that folks from Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. Proton only engaged with them and then reinstated the accounts after Phrack went public and their X/Twitter post went viral. It also looks like one of the writers filed an appeal with Proton and Proton denied the appeal, so they manually investigated the incident and refused to reinstate the account and then only did after this got attention on X/Twitter. So make no mistake about it: Proton didn't just disable the accounts after whatever CERT complained, which would have been bad enough - they also didn't do anything about it until this started getting lots of eyes on social media.

a0123 1y ago
Which the reddit fanatics on their sub are bending over backwards to defend and explain away when there is no two ways about it tbh.
overfeed 1y ago
I'll go out on a limb and say it: it's an American cybersecurity agency. Proton's CEO/Proton[1] loves the current US admin. I wouldn't be surprised if they comply now and ask questions later, if at all. 1. According to the now-deleted Reddit comment from the official Proton account glazing Republicans, so I assume they were speaking on behalf of all of Proton. https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-trump-republicans/ https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-tru.... I have zero evidence except for the CEOs questionable public statements, but I wouldn't be surprised if Proton turned out to be the 21st century Crypto AG.
- Yiin 1y ago
  if I didn't knew better, that would sound plausible, but the truth is much more boring (for the better)
- nerpderp82 1y ago
  Proton is a honey watering hole pot. This has always been clear.
  - southernplaces7 1y ago
    So clear that you can present the least evidence for it aside from the CEO's saying a thing or two that doesn't automatically spit on the current administration?
  - illiac786 1y ago
    Please think a bit before posting. This feels like you didn’t stop to think that this could be seen as cheap and provocative by many. And yes, some quotes, references, or a modicum of argumentation around a divisive point of view is also a good idea.
  - throw55es468 1y ago
    Proton has always been political, you see them supporting some protests, but not others.
  - RandomBacon 1y ago
    Makes sense to me. I wanted to try Proton out when they were having a sale, but I could not complete the purchase because I was on Mullvad's VPN. I created a ticket, and when they got back to me 5 days later, they told me to disconnect from the VPN to sign up for Proton.
- neobrain 1y ago
  > Proton's CEO/Proton[1] loves the current US admin The CEO once expressed support for Gail Slater as head of antitrust and subsequently criticized lack of effective work towards tech regulation on the Democratic side in the same social media thread. Calling that "love for the current US admin" (which hadn't even taken office when those statements were made) is pure disinformation.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  Half the American tech landscape is either running toward Trumps bed or bending right down and making all the right mating signals in hopes of some interest, but a few pro-republican comments from the Proton CEO should be held as immediately and deeply suspect of this company being a honeypot? People of all kinds can say certain positive things about the Republican Party for different reasons in specific contexts and not be fanatics you know. That's how using actual reasoning and nuanced discourse works in the world of not throwing your brain in the garbage through ideological rigidity.
  - moogly 1y ago
    For me, at least, it's less about the initial comments than how he handled the fallout from it.
    - billy99k 1y ago
      Why should there be fallout from supporting the current admin? Tech companies colluded with the government during the biden administration to censor American citizens. I never saw any outrage. Only memory holing and denial
      - overfeed 1y ago
        > I never saw any outrage You probably aren't looking hard enough. There was plenty of outrage, and congressmen excoriated tech companies for "suppressing right-wing voice"
        billy99k 1y ago
        Not in Liberal/Left leaning communities. They called for more censorship.
        overfeed 1y ago
        Yours is an entirely different argument to what gp was claiming, and undermines the crux of gps position.
- halJordan 1y ago
  Don't go out on a limb, RTFA. But then you wouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too.
j-bos 1y ago
> Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. According to Proton's response in the linked reddit post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 They say: "Regarding Phrack’s claim on contacting our legal team 8 times: this is not true. We have only received two emails to our legal team inbox, last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton, especially since the message was sent to our legal team inbox on a Saturday, rather than through the proper customer support channels."
- BLKNSLVR 1y ago
  > a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton and yet suspending the account...
- crossroadsguy 1y ago
  [flagged]
- nsagent 1y ago
  To be honest, I've found Proton's public customer service representatives to be very duplicitous, so it's hard to take their word at face value. It's pretty ridiculous to see their response to legitimate concerns start with: "That doesn't sound right..." 80-90% of the time.
- commmentator 1y ago
  You'll note that Proton's PR only mentions the second date - " last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline." Proton doesn't mention that the first email from Phrack which Proton ignored was weeks prior to that, which is what led to the second email in the first place. You'll also note that Proton doesn't mention that their Abuse Team refused to re-anable the account after the article author did the appeals process, as per Phrack's timeline at the top of their article.
  - j-bos 1y ago
    That's a great point. I guess at this point it'd be ideal for them to treat this an incident and do a proper postmortem with timelines and decision calculus.
baxtr 1y ago
On a positive note: having reach on social media can solve problems nowadays.
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  Isn't that like saying "Yay, rich people get to bend the law", certainly useful to some, but kind of a weird thing to cheer for?
- nicce 1y ago
  The effect is opposite - things get fixed only when you get enough social noise and that is not good.
  - baxtr 1y ago
    This has always been true. The difference today is that if you are able to craft a powerful message, distribution isn’t a problem anymore.
    - nicce 1y ago
      Many companies are getting only bigger and more global so it is easier for them to ignore the complaints until it catches the media. Since the scale is getting so big, complaints do not risk the revenue until it hits the media. Ecosystem wasn’t so global and instant in the past.
- brookst 1y ago
  And there’s no shortage of people excited to hop on the next outrage train. With good cause, in this case, but the crowds wielding pitchforks don’t much care either way.
- zapzupnz 1y ago
  So, if you have sufficient influence, you can get things moving. What about those of us nobodies with no influence?
  - 1y ago
eek2121 1y ago
Proton does not require a shred of proof that you are a real human being either, fyi. I'm not actually attacking them for this specifically, because I feel that we need privacy focused tools, however the fact that I was able to create a few hundred proton email addresses in seconds by injecting usernames/passwords was scary, even to me. I'm surprised they aren't on spam block lists worldwide. Their captcha is child's play that a script can defeat with simple image examination. i encourage them to buff up their spam controls, just a bit, and decrease moderation by a lot unless they can promptly deal with cases such as this.
- immibis 1y ago
  Their controls are buffed up: all of those accounts are linked due to having been created with the same IP address. If one is blocked, they all are. If you try to circumvent this with a well-known proxy (such as Tor or a V"P""N") you will find that captcha activation will not exist as an option.
  - crossroadsguy 1y ago
    That definitely doesn't look good for privacy POV. If they do not want abuse, they ought to use other means. They should not associate IPs with account creation. That is kind of scary. In fact, if what you have said is true, then one's account can be blocked by someone else's mischief on the same IP, which is not very uncommon at all i.e sharing the IP.
    - Yoric 1y ago
      How else?
    - estimator7292 1y ago
      They could take government ID, or fingerprint your machine, make you submit a picture of your face, do these options seem better to you?
      - johnisgood 1y ago

a0123 1y ago

Which the reddit fanatics on their sub are bending over backwards to defend and explain away when there is no two ways about it tbh.

overfeed 1y ago

I'll go out on a limb and say it: it's an American cybersecurity agency. Proton's CEO/Proton[1] loves the current US admin. I wouldn't be surprised if they comply now and ask questions later, if at all. 1. According to the now-deleted Reddit comment from the official Proton account glazing Republicans, so I assume they were speaking on behalf of all of Proton. https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-trump-republicans/ https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-tru.... I have zero evidence except for the CEOs questionable public statements, but I wouldn't be surprised if Proton turned out to be the 21st century Crypto AG.

Yiin 1y ago
if I didn't knew better, that would sound plausible, but the truth is much more boring (for the better)
nerpderp82 1y ago
Proton is a honey watering hole pot. This has always been clear.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  So clear that you can present the least evidence for it aside from the CEO's saying a thing or two that doesn't automatically spit on the current administration?
- illiac786 1y ago
  Please think a bit before posting. This feels like you didn’t stop to think that this could be seen as cheap and provocative by many. And yes, some quotes, references, or a modicum of argumentation around a divisive point of view is also a good idea.
- throw55es468 1y ago
  Proton has always been political, you see them supporting some protests, but not others.
- RandomBacon 1y ago
  Makes sense to me. I wanted to try Proton out when they were having a sale, but I could not complete the purchase because I was on Mullvad's VPN. I created a ticket, and when they got back to me 5 days later, they told me to disconnect from the VPN to sign up for Proton.
neobrain 1y ago
> Proton's CEO/Proton[1] loves the current US admin The CEO once expressed support for Gail Slater as head of antitrust and subsequently criticized lack of effective work towards tech regulation on the Democratic side in the same social media thread. Calling that "love for the current US admin" (which hadn't even taken office when those statements were made) is pure disinformation.
southernplaces7 1y ago
Half the American tech landscape is either running toward Trumps bed or bending right down and making all the right mating signals in hopes of some interest, but a few pro-republican comments from the Proton CEO should be held as immediately and deeply suspect of this company being a honeypot? People of all kinds can say certain positive things about the Republican Party for different reasons in specific contexts and not be fanatics you know. That's how using actual reasoning and nuanced discourse works in the world of not throwing your brain in the garbage through ideological rigidity.
- moogly 1y ago
  For me, at least, it's less about the initial comments than how he handled the fallout from it.
  - billy99k 1y ago
    Why should there be fallout from supporting the current admin? Tech companies colluded with the government during the biden administration to censor American citizens. I never saw any outrage. Only memory holing and denial
    - overfeed 1y ago
      > I never saw any outrage You probably aren't looking hard enough. There was plenty of outrage, and congressmen excoriated tech companies for "suppressing right-wing voice"
      - billy99k 1y ago
        Not in Liberal/Left leaning communities. They called for more censorship.
        overfeed 1y ago
        Yours is an entirely different argument to what gp was claiming, and undermines the crux of gps position.
halJordan 1y ago
Don't go out on a limb, RTFA. But then you wouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too.

j-bos 1y ago

> Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. According to Proton's response in the linked reddit post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 They say: "Regarding Phrack’s claim on contacting our legal team 8 times: this is not true. We have only received two emails to our legal team inbox, last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton, especially since the message was sent to our legal team inbox on a Saturday, rather than through the proper customer support channels."

BLKNSLVR 1y ago
> a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton and yet suspending the account...
crossroadsguy 1y ago
[flagged]
nsagent 1y ago
To be honest, I've found Proton's public customer service representatives to be very duplicitous, so it's hard to take their word at face value. It's pretty ridiculous to see their response to legitimate concerns start with: "That doesn't sound right..." 80-90% of the time.
commmentator 1y ago
You'll note that Proton's PR only mentions the second date - " last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline." Proton doesn't mention that the first email from Phrack which Proton ignored was weeks prior to that, which is what led to the second email in the first place. You'll also note that Proton doesn't mention that their Abuse Team refused to re-anable the account after the article author did the appeals process, as per Phrack's timeline at the top of their article.
- j-bos 1y ago
  That's a great point. I guess at this point it'd be ideal for them to treat this an incident and do a proper postmortem with timelines and decision calculus.

baxtr 1y ago

On a positive note: having reach on social media can solve problems nowadays.

Dilettante_ 1y ago
Isn't that like saying "Yay, rich people get to bend the law", certainly useful to some, but kind of a weird thing to cheer for?
nicce 1y ago
The effect is opposite - things get fixed only when you get enough social noise and that is not good.
- baxtr 1y ago
  This has always been true. The difference today is that if you are able to craft a powerful message, distribution isn’t a problem anymore.
  - nicce 1y ago
    Many companies are getting only bigger and more global so it is easier for them to ignore the complaints until it catches the media. Since the scale is getting so big, complaints do not risk the revenue until it hits the media. Ecosystem wasn’t so global and instant in the past.
brookst 1y ago
And there’s no shortage of people excited to hop on the next outrage train. With good cause, in this case, but the crowds wielding pitchforks don’t much care either way.
zapzupnz 1y ago
So, if you have sufficient influence, you can get things moving. What about those of us nobodies with no influence?
- 1y ago

eek2121 1y ago

Proton does not require a shred of proof that you are a real human being either, fyi. I'm not actually attacking them for this specifically, because I feel that we need privacy focused tools, however the fact that I was able to create a few hundred proton email addresses in seconds by injecting usernames/passwords was scary, even to me. I'm surprised they aren't on spam block lists worldwide. Their captcha is child's play that a script can defeat with simple image examination. i encourage them to buff up their spam controls, just a bit, and decrease moderation by a lot unless they can promptly deal with cases such as this.

immibis 1y ago
Their controls are buffed up: all of those accounts are linked due to having been created with the same IP address. If one is blocked, they all are. If you try to circumvent this with a well-known proxy (such as Tor or a V"P""N") you will find that captcha activation will not exist as an option.
- crossroadsguy 1y ago
  That definitely doesn't look good for privacy POV. If they do not want abuse, they ought to use other means. They should not associate IPs with account creation. That is kind of scary. In fact, if what you have said is true, then one's account can be blocked by someone else's mischief on the same IP, which is not very uncommon at all i.e sharing the IP.
  - Yoric 1y ago
    How else?
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    They could take government ID, or fingerprint your machine, make you submit a picture of your face, do these options seem better to you?
    - johnisgood 1y ago