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Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]
Related: Kodak has no plans to cease, go out of business, or file for bankruptcy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44901330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44901330
- williamscales 1y agoDang, this would suck. I really like Kodak film, like Portra 400 and Ektar 100. Writing’s been on the wall for quite a while though. I’m not surprised.
- HexPhantom 1y agoHard to watch a company that once defined photography now circling the drain... especially one that literally invented the digital camera, then buried it to protect film sales
- physicsguy 1y agoIt's not really the same company it was... just a name now.
- kotaKat 1y agoThere’s a bunch of Kodaks. * Eastman Kodak * Kodak Alaris * at least four separate Kodak licensees or more all also making photographic products among other plastic sludge: https://www.engadget.com/general/a-tale-of-four-kodaks-173040742.html https://www.engadget.com/general/a-tale-of-four-kodaks-17304...
- compsciphd 1y agokodak spun off Eastman Chemical decades ago (my dad owned some of their stock and held it to their bankruptcy). But looking at it, kodak shareholders were given 1 share of Eastman chemical for every 4 shares of Kodak they had. Eastman chemical has split once since then. Eastman chemical is now $60. Kodak ended 1993 (the new company was created jan 1 1994 I believe) at $56 a share. So that would imply that eastman chemical, that was viewed as 1/5th the value of the combined company in 1994 is now the value of the parent that was left over then (and no longer really exists).
- throw0101a 1y agoDestin from SmarterEveryDay did a series of videos on making film at a Kodak plant: * https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjHf9jaFs8XXcmtNSUxoaENoWX4GD9oHB https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjHf9jaFs8XXcmtNSUxoa...
- moomin 1y agoIt’s sad to see. As I understand it, digital photography forced camera companies to decide if they were principally about film or about photos and imaging. The competition in the image space was brutal, which phones winning the mass market by a huge margin. Those that quietly moved into recondite but valuable areas of technical specialisation did much better, but they’re not camera companies anymore.
- seanhunter 1y agoKodak give the world the first digital camera[1]. It took mismanagement on a gargantuan scale for them to fail in this manner. [1] https://www.kodak.com/en/company/page/photography-history/ https://www.kodak.com/en/company/page/photography-history/
- bbatha 1y agoKodak managed the film and camera market about as well as they could. The mismanagement was a failure to diversify. The total digital camera market excluding cell phones, would be a fraction of Kodak's film business back in the film era. The film and camera story is a popular one but is fundamentally wrong. The shrinkage of the camera/film market was inevitable. You can look at Fujifilm who does sell cameras and basically owns the remaining film market with instax, however neither of those sustain the business they are effectively a chemical and medical manufacturer who dabbles in photography now. Kodak on the other hand attempted to diversify to those markets in the 80s and 90s but made some terrible investments that they managed poorly. That forced them to leave those markets and double down on film just in time for the point and shoot boom of the 90s and the early digital market. Kodak was a heavy player in the digital camera market up to the cell phone era: they had the first dSLR and were the dSLR market for most of the 90s, they had the first commercially successful lines of digital point and shoots, they had the first full frame dSLR in the early 00s and jockeyed for positions 1-3 in the point and shoot market until the smart phone era. They continued to make CCD sensors for everyone during this time. Ya they missed the CMOS change over and smarthphone sensor market, but that was well after they were already in the drain.
- heeton 1y ago
- mastry 1y ago> Kodak aims to conjure up cash by ceasing payments for its retirement pension plan. I assume this means payments to retirees. It's a good reminder that (if you can help it) you should not rely 100% on any external source (including the government) for your retirement income.
- throw0101a 1y ago> I assume this means payments to retirees. You assume wrong. From November 2024: > According to the company, the plan’s liabilities to qualifying participants would be satisfied through a combination of lump sum distributions and an annuity purchased from an insurance company to cover existing obligations. Kodak, like many corporate pension plans, is in a funding surplus; it has significantly more assets than liabilities owed to plan beneficiaries and participants. * https://www.ai-cio.com/news/kodak-considers-terminating-overfunded-pension-plan/ https://www.ai-cio.com/news/kodak-considers-terminating-over... > Kodak retirees would receive an annuity from an insurance company. Current employees, as well as former employees who haven’t yet reached retirement, would be given an option to either receive a lump sum of their balance, or an annuity once they retire. Plan participants wouldn’t see a change in the value of the benefits that have been promised to them, executives said. > Kodak expects to put a new retirement plan in place for current employees if it terminates the pension. The company hasn’t yet determined whether it would provide a defined-benefit or defined-contribution plan, such as a 401(k). The company would need to have a new plan designed and in place within about a year, executives said. * https://www.wsj.com/articles/kodak-prepares-to-terminate-u-s-pension-book-gain-of-more-than-500-million-d0cfb621 https://www.wsj.com/articles/kodak-prepares-to-terminate-u-s... The money in the pension fund, at least up to an amount needed to satisfy current liabilities, is the property of employees and Kodak has no right to it. It is the surplus that was taken back by Kodak last year, and future payments are the ones that are ceasing. Per WSJ above another retirement plan system will be setup for current employees.
- mastry 1y agoAh - that's good to hear. Thanks for the extra information.
- TomMasz 1y agoIt was Rochester's largest employer for so long. Now it's become a bit of local trivia, much like Xerox. Both of them struggled to deal with changing markets.
- beardyw 1y agoEven my DSLR is gathering dust.
- genman 1y agoThe most important aspect is to save/conserve the equipment and knowledge so it would be possible for somebody else to take over. Something like this happened with Polaroid - a group of enthusiasts got Polaroid equipment and managed to partially restore the development of Polaroid integral instant film (the one where everything is packed into single package). Unfortunately the much more beautiful and photo like "peel apart" instant film was already scraped by both Polaroid and Fuji. I would even consider this a cultural vandalism, similar to destroying important cultural artifacts.
- ddoolin 1y agoMy grandpa (father's father) grew up in Rochester and that was the first time I visited New York for a family reunion, way back in the early aughts. Kodak was the major employer in town then; he and practically everyone he knew either worked there, had dealings with them in some form, or knew many others who did. When we went, I had the pleasure of touring the place and hearing plenty of stories from my gramps and our family. Good times.
- HexPhantom 1y agoA reminder that companies like Kodak weren't just brands
- specproc 1y agoInteresting to compare the tech companies of last century with those of this era. Kodak employed a whole town, and many more people besides. We're now waiting on a one-person unicorn. The number of people benefiting from an enterprise has shrunk considerably, with the benefits accruing more tightly within an already wealthy class.
- squigz 1y agoI don't deny wealth disparity is very much a thing, but this doesn't seem the point to make it. How many people does Google employ? Amazon? Apple? Probably as much or more than a small town.
- specproc 1y agoFair point, see my response to the commenter above.
- _aavaa_ 1y agoHow many Kodak workers had to pee in bottles, or needed suicide nets around their company dorms?
- solardev 1y agoHard to say for sure, but I think we can all agree it was a company full of negatives...
- joegibbs 1y agoAmazon has 1.5m, it's more on the level of a small country. Google is only at 180k, just small city level.
- lr4444lr 1y agoYou're counting warehouse and delivery workers though in that number, which IIRC is the significant majority. Google doesn't move physical products. (At least, not anything near that scale.)
- impish9208 1y agoPitbull (Mr. Worldwide) will be sad to hear this. Picture that with a Kodak.
- FireBeyond 1y agoAnd for us a little older, Paul Simon. After all, Kodachrome gives us those nice bright colors, and the greens of summers.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y agoNone of which would be possible without scientists and engineers who bothered to learn their crap from high school.
- mikewarot 1y agoThere are lots of hidden dependencies in the world, who knows what depends on the reliable production of polymer/emulsion products. It could be that we stop being able to make chips, or printers, or something else because of this as a second or third order effect.
- jjk166 1y agoPresumably they wouldn't torch the equipment and shoot the engineers when shutting down. If some business unit within Kodak is producing something the world needs, then there will be money to restart that particular production back up again, either as a spun off entity or as new production by a different firm. Losing a technological capability requires it to go decades without being practiced - long enough that those with the key knowledge die off. This can and has happened under the right circumstances, but probably wouldn't from a company going out of business.
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- siva7 1y agoI'm confused. Isn't kodak a printer company?
- YZF 1y agothey also make printers. (or at least used to)
- iancmceachern 1y agoThey literally invented the digital camera
- zzzeek 1y ago[flagged]
- siavosh 1y agoI remember when they tried to make a crypto currency a few years ago I knew it was well past a shadow of its former self.
- bsenftner 1y agoBiggest brand failure in my memory. "Kodak Moments" could have been used forever.
- mensetmanusman 1y agoThe MBAs that outsourced camera production to APEC are long retired.
- zoeysmithe 1y agoThe inventors of capitalism are long dead. Lets not pretend its "mba's" or "corpos" that are the problem here. This is how capitalism works. If people dont like it then they should consider alternatives.
- decimalenough 1y agoWhat they actually fumbled was the transition to digital. Keeping analog film/camera assembly in the US would only have led to Kodak running out of money even sooner.
- jeffbee 1y agoWhat they actually fumbled was trying to become a pharmaceuticals company. They owned 100% of the digital market for 20+ years.
- starik36 1y agoI don't know that they really fumbled anything. They had a pretty good set of digital cameras in the early 2000s. I owned one. It's just the technology that was the underpinning of the entire company has outlived its usefulness. You don't see many companies making horseshoes today - but there were thousands 150 years ago. They didn't fumble anything - just no longer needed.
- packetlost 1y agoI agree with this, but as someone who occasionally shoots film I'm still very sad about it. There's still reasonable demand for film, I can walk into my local Target and pick up Fujifilm Fujicolor Superia 200 for $10 a roll. It's just really hard to scale down a business without imploding, but I firmly believe Kodak could have had a future as a boutique film supplier if they wanted to. It just wouldn't be super profitable.
- 1over137 1y agonicer link: https://lite.cnn.com/2025/08/12/business/kodak-survival-warning https://lite.cnn.com/2025/08/12/business/kodak-survival-warn...
- xenotux 1y agoNot many people remember, but it wasn't that long ago that Kodak was "pivoting to crypto": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin At that point, it was pretty clear that they're on borrowed time. I'm surprised they had enough runway / credit to make it to 2025.
- mont_tag 1y agoCrypto did pretty well during that timeframe. Likely, they didn't pivot hard enough to offset losses to the core business.
- BoorishBears 1y agoCryptocurrency did well, anyone who built things assuming crypto-related tech would do well lost their shirt.
- DANmode 1y agoDecent framing of the issue, here.
- hoppp 1y agoCrypto is pretty much just about buying btc or now eth But the projects built on it are all questionable and only make money for the builders who slowly rug them
- canucker2016 1y agoworked well for Microstrategy (MSTR). Look at the 5 year or all-time chart for MSTR - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MSTR/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MSTR/ Not sure how they realize all those gains tho, or what happens to the stock price when they try to exit in a substantial manner.
- greiskul 1y agoAnd what projects do they have besides buying BTC like the parent comment mentioned? What tech have they built? And yeah, BTC went up huge amounts, but certainly they were a large part of the buying pressure to get it there. But like you asked, how do they realize anything? Unless they get US government to start buying and shift their bags to the US tax payer, how do they do anything with their BTC? Besides using it as collateral to borrow even more money to inflate a even higher bubble?
- tombert 1y agoWait, Kodak is still around? I'm not trying to be a dick or shitpost, but I genuinely thought they collapsed after I heard nothing about KodakCoin after the initial announcement.
- ThaDood 1y agoI use a lot of Kodak 35MM! They are still kicking around. They are kind of hard to find in my neck of the woods, so I mostly stick with Fuji anymore.
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- YZF 1y agoThey went bankrupt in 2012 but came out of their banruptcy. This is the second time they're collapsing. Not really related to their coin I don't think.
- tombert 1y agoYeah, I just assumed that the coin was a last-ditch effort to cash in on a trend, and I guess I assumed that when that thing failed, so did the company. I haven't touched a film camera in more than twenty years, so for most of my life I have only been aware of Kodak peripherally, so it's not like I was paying a lot of attention to them.
- SamuelAdams 1y ago> Kodak aims to conjure up cash by ceasing payments for its retirement pension plan I have always wondered, what happens to a pension plan when the company files for bankruptcy? What happens if the lump sum payment is not enough for retirees? Are they financially screwed until they die?
- gonzo41 1y agoThis is why the systems like what Australia has, with mandatory superannuation (401k accounts but better) is great. It makes the company pay the retirement plan amount for each worker, each pay. Then if the worker quits, they take their benefit with them. It's a 4 Trillion dollar industry in our country.
- pkaye 1y agoProbably the PBGC partially covers the retirees through employer premiums payments and tax payer funds. https://www.pbgc.gov/ https://www.pbgc.gov/
- jethkl 1y ago> Are they financially screwed I’ll share an anecdote I witnessed in my extended family–it was horrible. When US Air went bankrupt, employees with decades of service, expecting high five-figure to low six-figure annual income, learned they would get roughly $0.20 on the dollar. For many who were entering retirement, the impact was life-changing, and the stress and disruption it caused could well be argued as life-shortening. PBGC did take over, but that did not solve the problem. I believe the root cause was mismanagement of the pension, with the bankruptcy merely exposing this. But I wouldn’t be surprised if, at every opportunity during the bankruptcy process, changes were made that eroded the program’s health. https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/us-airways-pilots-still-fight-for-pension-payouts-11-years-after-bankruptcy-case-12703297 https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/us-airways-pilots...
- Scene_Cast2 1y agoThat's pretty sad. I find their color film resolves better than Ilford's B&W stuff (I know it's apples to oranges, but if I'm shooting B&W, I kind of want the detail...). Their film is also generally easier to find than Provia or Velvia, for medium format at least.
- fallinditch 1y agoYes, very sad - I really hope they carry on making camera films. This is what we would lose: https://thedarkroom.com/film-brand/kodak https://thedarkroom.com/film-brand/kodak
- mvgoogler 1y agoKodak film products are (confusingly) handled by Kodak-Alaris, which is a separate company that spun out of Eastman Kodak around 2012-ish and shares the Kodak brand with Eastman Kodak. Despite the similar names they are entirely separate companies, AFAIK. My team did an integration with Kodak-Alaris a few years back and we toured their main office in Rochester. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Alaris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Alaris
- mhh__ 1y ago> Based in Hemel Hempstead Huh Hopefully they'd be unscratched if the big Kodak goes down (I assume they still have some equity?)
- Finnucane 1y agoI don't remember the details now, but my recollection is that spinning off the film business was tied to funding the pension, and the way the pension management was also spun off.
- pavon 1y agoThe way Wikipedia describes it, Eastman Kodak is still the one manufacturing the film, and Kodak Alaris is just selling it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak#Still_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak#Still_film
- jspann 1y agoMaybe I'm reading the headlines wrong, but it doesn't seem like a lot of people read the actual press release and earnings report from the August 11th, 2025[1]: 1) The "Going Concern Assessment" that they put out was a regulatory requirement because they didn't have full control of the sale of parts of the pension. They say in the release that they're going to have the sale finalized on December 15th, with details on August 15th 2) They not only mention opening a new business segment, but built a lab AND got FDA approval for that segment (Advanced Materials & Chemicals) 3) The sale of the pension is going to have so much of a surplus they're going to pay down parts of the long debt that they have. I'd love to be corrected if I'm misreading this, but the reports of Kodak's death seem greatly exaggerated [1]: https://investor.kodak.com/news-releases/news-release-details/kodak-reports-second-quarter-2025-financial-results https://investor.kodak.com/news-releases/news-release-detail...
- kleinishere 1y agoCorrect. And confirmed by Kodak on their Facebook page. The “going concern” disclosure is an accounting requirement. However, the company claims to have line of sight toward addressing it. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19UdGkBYwr/?mibextid=wwXIfr https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19UdGkBYwr/?mibextid=wwXIfr Also discussed on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/XTwZHnUHnc https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/XTwZHnUHnc
- cloudbonsai 1y ago> I'd love to be corrected if I'm misreading this, but the reports of Kodak's death seem greatly exaggerated The basic background here is that Kodak has been pivotting at least for last 40 years. - 1980s: Kodak tried to become a Chemical magnate. This strategy was abandoned in 1990s. - 1990s: Kodak tried to become a Digital Imaging company. While it saw a brief success, Kodak lost the competition. - 2000s: Kodak tried to become an Inkjet Printer company, which was doomed and eventually pushed it into bankruptcy. - 2010s: Kodak tried to become a Blockchain company, issuing KodakCoin. It was a flop. - 2020s: Kodak tried to become a Pharmaceutical company amid Covid-19 pandemic. As of today, Kodak is focusing on its chemical business (such as manifacturing KODALUX, a fabric coating material) and borrowed $477M (at 12% p.a.) in order to expand that business line. That loan is due in 2026. Kodak is basically saying "I have no idea how to repay that money. In fact, I only have $155M in cash. Maybe it's time to talk with the creditors?".
- martinpw 1y agoBack in the day when photographic plates were used to capture images from astronomical telescopes, occasionally the excitement of a new discovery was followed by the disappointment of realizing that it was just a blemish in the emulsion, also known as an "Eastman Kodak Object".
- dotancohen 1y agoIs that EKO, instead of an KBO or NKO?
- HexPhantom 1y agoKind of poetic, though, that Kodak's legacy reached all the way into space
- drakenot 1y ago> Presteign did not care for the artists, musicians, and fops Olivia kept about her, but he was pleased to see a scattering of society notables this morning. > There was a Sears-Roebuck, a Gillet, young Sidney Kodak who would one day be Kodak of Kodak, a Houbigant, Buick of Buick, and R. H. Macy XVI, head of the powerful Saks-Gimbel clan. - The Stars My Destination
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- lucasyvas 1y agoThey should re-market as an anti-AI documentation company that uses analogue capture techniques. Use film!
- mv4 1y agoAnyone remember KodakCoin? [1] The price tripled overnight. Good times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin
- usr1106 1y agoVisited one of the biggest computer, electronics, and household appliance shop in the country (in Europe) last week. Was surprised that they actually had chemical films on the shelf. Not a big variety, and only limited numbers. Only one brand: Kodak. Myself I shot slides from 1977 to 2001. Was not a big fan of Kodakchrome colors, preferred Fujichrome. And they were also cheaper, relevant for a student budget. After working with one of the first camera phones I have not bought any roll of film, even if in hindsight 100 KB VGA pictures were somewhat limiting... Now I mostly avoid taking photos because I won't have enough time in my life to keep them organized and watch them...
- exasperaited 1y agoPharmaceuticals manufacturing is an obvious way to sustain a business that has a "halo" product that is a product of chemistry. If you think you still need to sell film to even be Kodak, then having boringly profitable chemical work keeps a lot of your processes, certifications and facilities ticking over, I guess. Fujifilm do much the same thing with cosmetics.
- kkc11 1y agoStatement Regarding Misleading Media Reports https://www.kodak.com/en/company/blog-post/statement-regarding-misleading-media-reports/ https://www.kodak.com/en/company/blog-post/statement-regardi...
- fennecbutt 1y agoNo it didn't, lmao. Modern hellscape nightmare of false news, parroting misinformation and general apathy to actually checking facts. Kodak has even had to release a statement in response to this nonsense. Anyway, buy Kodak film, maybe they'll bring some of the older ones back after they've cleared debts.
- alienslanded 1y ago[dead]
- cannes1 1y agoI’m curious if this is tied to U.S. intelligence having to cut back on spending. They’ve been tight with Kodak over the years.
- mark-r 1y agoTo be honest, I thought they were already completely gone. The article mentions them filing for bankruptcy in 2012. They were pretty much doomed from the start. They had built their business by taking a cut from every picture you took, from the rolls of film to the developing to the printing. There was absolutely nothing in the digital camera realm that could duplicate that; their revenue dropped like a rock. If they had sold every single digital camera ever bought, it wouldn't have made up for it. The contrast between Kodak and Fujifilm is fascinating. Fujifilm survived by pivoting to manufacturing critical components for LCD panels, which were exploding in popularity at the time. https://web.archive.org/web/20250704224940/https://petapixel.com/why-kodak-died-and-fujifilm-thrived-a-tale-of-two-film-companies/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250704224940/https://petapixel...
- guerrilla 1y agoYeah, how cool would it be if Kodak made monitors and TVs. That'd be an amazing brand. Aw man, now I'm sad that didn't happen.
- dougdonohoe 1y ago"Doomed from the start" for a 133 year old company seems a bit hyperbolic. They have lasted 13 decades and counting. How many other company started in the 1890s are still around today?
- woofcat 1y agoI'm presuming they were trying to say "Doomed from the start of the digital revolution"
- ghaff 1y agoOne can come up with plenty of criticisms of Kodak. But they did sell off their chemical business when the selling was reasonably good and they did do a fair number of things that anticipated digital. But you can't just yank out the carpet from a massive consumables business that basically underpinned a company's revenue and profits almost overnight and reasonably expect them to deal with it.
- punkbit 1y agoKodak film is legendary. There's nothing like watching a movie shot on Kodak Film. Hopefully, they can find a solution.
- guerrilla 1y agoHey uhh have you guys seen this? "Media reports that Kodak is ceasing operations, going out of business, or filing for bankruptcy are inaccurate and reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of a recent technical disclosure the Company made to the SEC in its recently filed second quarter earnings report. These articles are misleading and missing critical context, and we'd like to set the record straight." https://www.kodak.com/en/company/blog-post/statement-regarding-misleading-media-reports/ https://www.kodak.com/en/company/blog-post/statement-regardi...
- kkaske 1y agoI feel like journalism used to be considered a higher calling. Getting things right was very important. Maybe I’m misremembering, or maybe the internet has just drowned real journalism in a sea of clickbait headlines.
- pyinstallwoes 1y agoIt certainly feels like there is no journalism in our zeitgeist. It’s been replaced by propaganda, and sensationalism.
- guerrilla 1y agoI think it was always like that but there were people in journalism fighting hard against it. They lost, apparently somewhat permanently it seems.
- jachriga 1y ago"Journalism" has to compete with the likes of TikTok these days in terms of information availability, and TikTok (and it's infinite scrolling ilk) are not subject to the same principles that traditional journalism has been. It makes perfect sense that the modern press has devolved to a 24-hour rumor mill; if they hadn't, they'd be even more irrelevant.
- 1y ago
- smm11 1y agoThey could have ruled the world V298768.
- smm11 1y agoWe need an American Samsung-like company. Kodak could have been it. Then again, Sears could have made Amazon a pets-dot-com flash in the pan.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y agoI will never understand it. The Sears catalog was an American staple for years. If they had gone online, they could have been what Amazon is today 20 years ago, and Amazon would have just been an online bookstore. It was such an obvious thing to do and they didn't do it.