8 ms·

A number of electric vehicle, battery factories are being canceled

94 points by elsewhen 1y ago

bpodgursky 1y ago
They aren't being cancelled in China. What an absurd own-goal. BYD will eat the world.
kristopolous 1y ago
“China is at 50 percent EV penetration already,” Ricardo C. Rodriguez, the chief financial officer and treasurer of Aspen Aerogels, said on the call, saying the shift to China was a “no-brainer.” “In North America and Europe, we continue to dabble in this 10 percent to 15 percent level. So, you do start wondering, right, is that progress?” All this "trade war" stuff to "combat" china would be like some kind of battle where your soldiers all do seppuku and call it victory. Like the 49% tariff in south east asia to "combat" china influence. Really? You jack up the price by almost 50% and they'll like you more and not look elsewhere? How does this work?
- coliveira 1y ago
  The USA had a great opportunity to recognize the competition with China and invest more to win the competition (as it did with USSR). Instead, they decided that, as the top dog, the "best" option was to play protectionism and try to block China. This is the path of economic destruction for the US.
  - kristopolous 1y ago
    There's this weird idea many Americans have, as if they're 80% of the world and nobody can live without them. They don't travel abroad, can't point to other countries on a map... The level of international awareness is staggeringly low. These policies only make sense under that common delusion
    - coliveira 1y ago
      This is exactly the delusion that US media (news and entertainment) has enforced for 80 years. It is difficult for Americans not to believe in something that their media and politicians repeat daily.
    - xnx 1y ago
      US is 1/4 of World GDP, so that is (was?) a pretty big deal.
      - jajko 1y ago
        So 3/4 will rearrange accordingly. It will take time and will be painful but for 96% of global population a step in right direction, there is only so many attacks and bullying one can stand. I wish it didnt have to come to this, but here we are, direction is clear. No point waiting that next election cycle will be much different, it won't be.
        kristopolous 1y ago
        Not only but now the trust is broken Let's say this was SomewhereElsistan and they elected someone who just cancelled contracts, backed out of treaties, refused to pay balances, fired entire departments and maybe even arrest your international colleague working there and sent them to a foreign concentration camp. Afterwards they elect Johnny Reasonable who doesn't do this. Would you go back with any kind of assurance it wouldn't happen again? Nobody stopped the first guy. The US reputation in international markets is hosed for decades unless some dramatic reversal and patching comes in, by both Congress and the courts or some wild thing where the states override the federal government somehow. Otherwise the trust is gone for decades, perhaps forever.
        jajko 1y ago
        He basically cleaned whole route for world dominance for China. All they have to do is to be more friendly to Europe, rest of Asia and literally rest of the world, thats enough. Just a bit friendly, nothing more. Once oil starts trading in parallel in RMB, the only thing going for US will be waning momentum and its military, while China will be in reverse situation. Just like putin being arrogant and aggressive about Ukraine wanting to join NATO, causing Finland and Sweden to join (which they wouldn't do otherwise), he is causing what he is causing. I am fixing my floating mortgage on monday, we have currently 0.2% SNB rate but the risk of it shooting up is massive.
  - namirez 1y ago
    That was the point of TPP which the US withdrew from in 2018.
    - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
      Trump pulled out on his first day in office. The rest of the countries carried on without the USA and to add to the irony, China applied to join it in 2021. His claimed anti-China stance is one of his most effective lies.
- lossolo 1y ago
  Just got back from China, it's insane. EVs with green plates literally everywhere, not just in T1 cities like Shenzhen but even in smaller ones. The infrastructure’s on another level compared to the US.
  - brabel 1y ago
    Here in Sweden, 63% of new cars sold are electrical or PHEV. Still, unfortunately we still see a lot of fossil fueled cars on the roads... you immediately notice them because they're so damn noisy - and when you get used to the silence of EVs , it's hard to not notice them and be a bit disgusted.
  - kristopolous 1y ago
    The adoption of electric scooters is phenomenal. It's like Vietnam but all electric.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  It's just self-imposed sanctions in addition to severing ties with American allies. On top of this, Russia has no sanctions, and we know that the US will cancel Russian sanctions too. Again, it doesn't matter if Trump is some manchurian candidate. His behavior is 100% in line with him, and the behavior and policies are what do the damage to the USA.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
[flagged]
- cmrdporcupine 1y ago
  That was the Chevy Volt. And it was a glorious piece of amazing engineering. Not marketed. Barely sold. Dealers hated it (too reliable, too "weird"). Technology never transferred into a larger vehicle that "normal" Americans would want to drive. GM couldn't be convinced to make an Equinox or a Silverado with that kind of drivetrain, or even try. They decided that pure electric made more sense, but they also are incapable of marketing and selling that, either. My cynical take is: Combustion engines and highways made North America as it is. The Baby Boomer "American Grafitti" generation that holds power lives and breathes gas burning auto culture as the apex of and very definition of progress. ICE from their cold dead hands. Our continent will go down literally burning because of it. (Well, Trump is currently killing off what remains of the North American auto industry, so I guess we'll see...)
  - glitchc 1y ago
    Please stop with the hyperbole. It's unproductive. Switching everyone to BEVs would require a massive investment in infrastructure. Given the speeds at which EVs charge, at least every other parking spot at the stop would need a charger to make it viable for the average consumer. Assuming at least a quarter of those are actually charging at the same time, supplying that amount of power requires a massive upgrade to wiring and delivery to all road stops. We would need high voltage lines and a mini substation running to every stop along the road. Not to mention the massive upgrade in power generation capacity.
    - cmrdporcupine 1y ago
      I have no idea who you think you're arguing against, but it isn't me.
    - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
      >Given the speeds at which EVs charge, at least every other parking spot at the stop would need a charger to make it viable for the average consumer. That's what they do in China. Go to any random underground parking, and you'll find charging stations everywhere. Even the bikes are all electric and have chargers everywhere. It's absolutely wild to me that the argument against BEVs is, "But we don't have the infrastructure right now, and we definitely won't be able to build it!" This is such a sad capitulation.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
> In North America and Europe, we continue to dabble in this 10 percent to 15 percent level. Europe was 20% in 2023 and 25% in 2024. I think they're past the dabble phase.
- feikinius 1y ago
  quick query in google says only 400k out of the 38 million vehicles in Spain are electric EVs are expensive and unreliable for the time being
  - rapsey 1y ago
    Unreliable what? How?
  - speedgoose 1y ago
    Unreliable ?
  - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
    My Californian Fiat 500e is the most reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, my friend's Model 3 has some recall or problem roughly every six months. So, I guess it depends on which EV you buy, but I'm pretty sure the most reliable EVs are more reliable than the most reliable ICEs, simply because they have fewer moving parts (quite literally).
    - rapsey 1y ago
      Recall problem as in a software update?
      - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
        No, stuff he had to go to the shop for. At one point, they had to replace the brakes, then the whole chassis suspension (or something like that, I'm not sure if I understood exactly what he said), then one of the cameras didn't work anymore, and then the windshield wipers didn't come on automatically. Something breaks or needs to be replaced due to a recall at oddly regular intervals.
Night_Thastus 1y ago
This situation has little-to-nothing to do with the current US administration. The reality is a lot more simple: * The cars are expensive * Gas isn't expensive enough right now to be a strong incentive to switch * A lot of consumers are poorly informed and hung up on non-issues The whole auto industry flew off the deep end thinking that EV demand would be enormous, that they'd basically STOP selling ICE cars almost completely. As it turns out, consumers were not that eager to swap. EV R&D is expensive. EV manufacturing is expensive. Modern car manufacturing uses a lot of common parts and frameworks to save money, but EVs required a lot of not-sharable tooling and parts with their ICE counterparts - driving up costs. Some day all of this will be resolved, but it's not going to happen overnight. It'll be a slow burn over many decades.
- philipwhiuk 1y ago
  > * Gas isn't expensive enough right now to be a strong incentive to switch This is easily fixable.
  - wolfi1 1y ago
    I can see now why Russia hasn't been taxed (because of the oil)
  - Telemakhos 1y ago
    Is artificially changing a price to make something less affordable "fixing" a problem or creating one that didn't exist yet?
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      At the moment the price of gas is artificially low due to indirect subsidies. Eliminate those to give a fair playing field.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    > This is easily fixable. Gas is a lot more expensive ("fixed" with taxes) in the EU and the electric cars are losing steam here too. You need to drive a lot (by EU urban standards at least) to justify the price premium and hassle of an all electric. Especially since we've been in a recession longer than the US which is just starting. From TFA: > But even before President Donald Trump’s sweeping tariffs on imports, many of those projects were being canceled — leaving thousands of jobs and the shift to clean energy in doubt. Might have something to do with the end of free financing too...
coliveira 1y ago
If the target, set by the government, is to be protectionist, then EVERYTHING in terms of investment needs to be canceled, because it does't make sense to invest when the internal market is going to be controlled by means of tariffs.
- jklinger410 1y ago
  I don't understand what you are saying here at all.
  - hypeatei 1y ago
    I think what they mean is: these plans were made in another time so they might harm the company financially (or be extremely lopsided) given the "new mandate" (may change again too) from the Trump admin. Just a measure to take a step back and assess the whole picture I'm assuming.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
  Given the chaos, how does any industry make long term investments any more? All financial plans could be flipped upside down for any reason at any time.
  - Thorrez 1y ago
    I've heard the most prosperous times for the US are when the president's party is different from the congressional majority. Few laws get passed, so things stay stable for businesses.
    - Herring 1y ago
      No, the issue is half of Americans and American states are still into Red-state zero-sum policies which don't work very well in a modern world and modern economy. Today you want the black/female/trans/foreigner working at their absolute full potential, not slaving in your farm. In the past it didn't matter so much economically because slaving in your farm was still one of the most important jobs. In 1900, ~40% of the American workforce was employed in agriculture. Yet even then the (ex) slave states were poor compared to northern states because they didn’t know how to invest in their population (still don’t).
jms703 1y ago
Charging is an issue for almost everyone I know. If I could get my utility company PG&E to upgrade my power, I could consider it, but we're told we have to wait years. So we have no way to charge, and there are not enough chargers around here are.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  I know a bunch of people who charge on standard 120V/15A. That'll let you add 40 miles of range overnight. It's not as good as 240V/50A that'll fully charge your car in 4 hours, but it is enough that they only rarely have to visit local fast chargers.
  - pdabbadabba 1y ago
    That's what I do. And I still don't even bother to charge most nights. If you live in a relatively urban area and don't do a lot of driving that is more than adequate.
    - monero-xmr 1y ago
      The problem is your emissions are minuscule and the difference between you owning an electric car or gas car is meaningless if your goal is to save the climate. The big, heavy carbon users need to switch. But they have needs that are difficult to serve by electric
      - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
        Electric generation is the low hanging fruit but some nations are already at the stage that the power sector has lower emissions than the transport sector and it is probably the next dominoe to fall. The country saves money and gets cleaner air plus battery storage to aid in greening the rest of the grid.
      - ben_w 1y ago
        Everyone needs to switch to carbon neutral eventually, not everyone has to do it at the same time.
Tepix 1y ago
https://archive.is/qPILX https://archive.is/qPILX
jmclnx 1y ago
Trump pretty much cancelled subsidies, so at least in the US this is the largest reason. Thanks to Trump and to a lesser extent all other presidents of the US, 4C here we come my 2100 :( If not for Trump we would probably still hit 3.5C. 1.5 is a forlorn dream, and probably was a dream when it was decided upon.
- EcommerceFlow 1y ago
  Your ideology is demonizing and burning the company most effectively fighting climate change.
  - TomK32 1y ago
    The best invention against climate change is the bicycle. Few resources to produce (often 10% of the weight of the user, a car easily weighs 2000% of it's 1.3 average passengers), low requirements for infrastructure and with a folding bike you can take it with you anywhere. Personal transport is the segment that fails to do its bit against climate change and electric cars are still cars that need wide road, parking, electric infrastructure etc.
  - wormlord 1y ago
    EVs are not the solution, they just shift the emissions elsewhere and perpetuate a car-based society which is a much larger issue. Policies like NYCs congestion pricing and light rail are infinitely more impactful.
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      > they just shift the emissions elsewhere The electricity grid is going emissions free faster than the transportation infrastructure. So the emissions from the production of both gasoline & electric vehicles are going down quickly.
      - wormlord 1y ago
        That doesn't solve the environmental impacts of: tire usage, EV production, battery degradation, road maintenance, charging infrastructure, and all the costs downstream of suburban development built around cars like: - millions of miles of electrical lines - millions of sq ft of parking lots - wastewater management infrastructure - sewage infrastructure - high municipal debt to service all of the above
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jjani 1y ago
> “The Respected Comrade’s brilliant economic agenda is an all-encompassing plan to revive our economy by unleashing Chosun energy, implementing tariffs to level the playing field, and bringing trillions of won in historic investments to our country’s manufacturing sector,” minister Paek Sông-Ryông said.
EcommerceFlow 1y ago
The real problem is that our auto companies (besides Tesla) are reliant and subsidized by the Government, making them highly inefficient, and unable to compete within a global market without giant subsidies.
- numbsafari 1y ago
  Besides Tesla?
- mark242 1y ago
  The real problem is that American consumers are demanding these gigantic monstrosity SUVs and trucks which literally cannot fit on European streets. When Ford et al were making hot hatchbacks, they were incredibly popular overseas. The inefficiency is at the consumer level.
  - yoyohello13 1y ago
    My town is filled with massive Ford pickups. Pristine and clean, nothing in the beds. These people are no 'utilizing' the thing, it's just a status symbol. Annoys me so much.
  - rapsey 1y ago
    Ford has plenty of cars that fit european roads. The problem is that their cars are garbage.
    - mark242 1y ago
      The bespoke UK/EU models are not the priority, again because they aren't being made in the US, so yes the quality drops. You cannot get, for example, a new Focus in the US market. When you could, they were much higher quality. The only Chevrolet you can buy in the UK is the Corvette. Chevrolet makes nine SUVs, four trucks (with however many infinite variations), and exactly one shitbox non-Corvette car. If US automakers started turning their eyes towards smaller more efficient cars, where hauling Brayden to and from their soccer games didn't require multiple tons of steel, then they could compete in the EU market.
roboror 1y ago
I would love an EV but the charging infrastructure is absolutely abysmal if you live in an apartment in NYC like I do.
- russdill 1y ago
  Yes, and it's something that can be fixed and absolutely should be fixed.
- sowbug 1y ago
  I've only visited NYC, but I think if I lived there I wouldn't want to drive a car at all. The public transportation and walkability are excellent. Is my impression a common misunderstanding?
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. Like apartment buildings with parking. Why the hell aren't there funding projects to provide recharging for these highly concentrated housing where electrifying/reducing emissions has compounded benefits, where you need far less wiring to provide recharging for a far larger number of cars than an equivalent amount of suburban housing? It speaks to how money is directed for infrastructure and utilities by the government. It's basically madness.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
    > It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. Um, not really. Almost all houses have 240V lines. It's non-trivial to add a ton of 240V connections into some basement that's barely wired for power. If it was as non-trivial to do in apartment complexes as it is in houses, this wouldn't be an issue. This isn't some grand scheme of mismanagement to screw over New Yorkers.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    > It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. No, it is an indication of good management for lower prices for all. Maybe an indication of lack of foresight, but electronics don't last forever, planning for EVs in 1960 would have been stupid - the fuse boxes (probably not modern breakers) would be worn out and replaced without every charging a single EV. Even today there have been a number of EV charger fires because outlets we thought were safe for EV currents for decades turn out to be marginal when put to that use and so again planning ahead would have put in the wrong thing. Suburban houses have plenty of power because you might use the dryer, stove and AC at the same time and so need that much power - but in fact nobody every uses all their power so there is enough spare power to every house for an EV. An apartment can better rely on not everyone does all that at the same time and so they can build with much less extra power and in turn save costs for everyone. Even in suburban locations, any one house has enough power, but the whole neighborhood might not and power companies are doing expensive upgrades to fix that. Not to mention power plants may not have enough spare capacity. (there are also commonly incentives to charge off peak thus using power when there is spare capacity in the system)
LightBug1 1y ago
Biggest own goals of the 21st century .... UK: Brexit USA: Donald Trump

94 points by elsewhen 1y ago

They aren't being cancelled in China. What an absurd own-goal. BYD will eat the world.

“China is at 50 percent EV penetration already,” Ricardo C. Rodriguez, the chief financial officer and treasurer of Aspen Aerogels, said on the call, saying the shift to China was a “no-brainer.” “In North America and Europe, we continue to dabble in this 10 percent to 15 percent level. So, you do start wondering, right, is that progress?” All this "trade war" stuff to "combat" china would be like some kind of battle where your soldiers all do seppuku and call it victory. Like the 49% tariff in south east asia to "combat" china influence. Really? You jack up the price by almost 50% and they'll like you more and not look elsewhere? How does this work?

coliveira 1y ago
The USA had a great opportunity to recognize the competition with China and invest more to win the competition (as it did with USSR). Instead, they decided that, as the top dog, the "best" option was to play protectionism and try to block China. This is the path of economic destruction for the US.
- kristopolous 1y ago
  There's this weird idea many Americans have, as if they're 80% of the world and nobody can live without them. They don't travel abroad, can't point to other countries on a map... The level of international awareness is staggeringly low. These policies only make sense under that common delusion
  - coliveira 1y ago
    This is exactly the delusion that US media (news and entertainment) has enforced for 80 years. It is difficult for Americans not to believe in something that their media and politicians repeat daily.
  - xnx 1y ago
    US is 1/4 of World GDP, so that is (was?) a pretty big deal.
    - jajko 1y ago
      So 3/4 will rearrange accordingly. It will take time and will be painful but for 96% of global population a step in right direction, there is only so many attacks and bullying one can stand. I wish it didnt have to come to this, but here we are, direction is clear. No point waiting that next election cycle will be much different, it won't be.
      - kristopolous 1y ago
        Not only but now the trust is broken Let's say this was SomewhereElsistan and they elected someone who just cancelled contracts, backed out of treaties, refused to pay balances, fired entire departments and maybe even arrest your international colleague working there and sent them to a foreign concentration camp. Afterwards they elect Johnny Reasonable who doesn't do this. Would you go back with any kind of assurance it wouldn't happen again? Nobody stopped the first guy. The US reputation in international markets is hosed for decades unless some dramatic reversal and patching comes in, by both Congress and the courts or some wild thing where the states override the federal government somehow. Otherwise the trust is gone for decades, perhaps forever.
        jajko 1y ago
        He basically cleaned whole route for world dominance for China. All they have to do is to be more friendly to Europe, rest of Asia and literally rest of the world, thats enough. Just a bit friendly, nothing more. Once oil starts trading in parallel in RMB, the only thing going for US will be waning momentum and its military, while China will be in reverse situation. Just like putin being arrogant and aggressive about Ukraine wanting to join NATO, causing Finland and Sweden to join (which they wouldn't do otherwise), he is causing what he is causing. I am fixing my floating mortgage on monday, we have currently 0.2% SNB rate but the risk of it shooting up is massive.
- namirez 1y ago
  That was the point of TPP which the US withdrew from in 2018.
  - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
    Trump pulled out on his first day in office. The rest of the countries carried on without the USA and to add to the irony, China applied to join it in 2021. His claimed anti-China stance is one of his most effective lies.
lossolo 1y ago
Just got back from China, it's insane. EVs with green plates literally everywhere, not just in T1 cities like Shenzhen but even in smaller ones. The infrastructure’s on another level compared to the US.
- brabel 1y ago
  Here in Sweden, 63% of new cars sold are electrical or PHEV. Still, unfortunately we still see a lot of fossil fueled cars on the roads... you immediately notice them because they're so damn noisy - and when you get used to the silence of EVs , it's hard to not notice them and be a bit disgusted.
- kristopolous 1y ago
  The adoption of electric scooters is phenomenal. It's like Vietnam but all electric.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
It's just self-imposed sanctions in addition to severing ties with American allies. On top of this, Russia has no sanctions, and we know that the US will cancel Russian sanctions too. Again, it doesn't matter if Trump is some manchurian candidate. His behavior is 100% in line with him, and the behavior and policies are what do the damage to the USA.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago

[flagged]

cmrdporcupine 1y ago
That was the Chevy Volt. And it was a glorious piece of amazing engineering. Not marketed. Barely sold. Dealers hated it (too reliable, too "weird"). Technology never transferred into a larger vehicle that "normal" Americans would want to drive. GM couldn't be convinced to make an Equinox or a Silverado with that kind of drivetrain, or even try. They decided that pure electric made more sense, but they also are incapable of marketing and selling that, either. My cynical take is: Combustion engines and highways made North America as it is. The Baby Boomer "American Grafitti" generation that holds power lives and breathes gas burning auto culture as the apex of and very definition of progress. ICE from their cold dead hands. Our continent will go down literally burning because of it. (Well, Trump is currently killing off what remains of the North American auto industry, so I guess we'll see...)
- glitchc 1y ago
  Please stop with the hyperbole. It's unproductive. Switching everyone to BEVs would require a massive investment in infrastructure. Given the speeds at which EVs charge, at least every other parking spot at the stop would need a charger to make it viable for the average consumer. Assuming at least a quarter of those are actually charging at the same time, supplying that amount of power requires a massive upgrade to wiring and delivery to all road stops. We would need high voltage lines and a mini substation running to every stop along the road. Not to mention the massive upgrade in power generation capacity.
  - cmrdporcupine 1y ago
    I have no idea who you think you're arguing against, but it isn't me.
  - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
    >Given the speeds at which EVs charge, at least every other parking spot at the stop would need a charger to make it viable for the average consumer. That's what they do in China. Go to any random underground parking, and you'll find charging stations everywhere. Even the bikes are all electric and have chargers everywhere. It's absolutely wild to me that the argument against BEVs is, "But we don't have the infrastructure right now, and we definitely won't be able to build it!" This is such a sad capitulation.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

> In North America and Europe, we continue to dabble in this 10 percent to 15 percent level. Europe was 20% in 2023 and 25% in 2024. I think they're past the dabble phase.

feikinius 1y ago
quick query in google says only 400k out of the 38 million vehicles in Spain are electric EVs are expensive and unreliable for the time being
- rapsey 1y ago
  Unreliable what? How?
- speedgoose 1y ago
  Unreliable ?
- InsideOutSanta 1y ago
  My Californian Fiat 500e is the most reliable car I've ever owned. On the other hand, my friend's Model 3 has some recall or problem roughly every six months. So, I guess it depends on which EV you buy, but I'm pretty sure the most reliable EVs are more reliable than the most reliable ICEs, simply because they have fewer moving parts (quite literally).
  - rapsey 1y ago
    Recall problem as in a software update?
    - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
      No, stuff he had to go to the shop for. At one point, they had to replace the brakes, then the whole chassis suspension (or something like that, I'm not sure if I understood exactly what he said), then one of the cameras didn't work anymore, and then the windshield wipers didn't come on automatically. Something breaks or needs to be replaced due to a recall at oddly regular intervals.

Night_Thastus 1y ago

This situation has little-to-nothing to do with the current US administration. The reality is a lot more simple: * The cars are expensive * Gas isn't expensive enough right now to be a strong incentive to switch * A lot of consumers are poorly informed and hung up on non-issues The whole auto industry flew off the deep end thinking that EV demand would be enormous, that they'd basically STOP selling ICE cars almost completely. As it turns out, consumers were not that eager to swap. EV R&D is expensive. EV manufacturing is expensive. Modern car manufacturing uses a lot of common parts and frameworks to save money, but EVs required a lot of not-sharable tooling and parts with their ICE counterparts - driving up costs. Some day all of this will be resolved, but it's not going to happen overnight. It'll be a slow burn over many decades.

philipwhiuk 1y ago
> * Gas isn't expensive enough right now to be a strong incentive to switch This is easily fixable.
- wolfi1 1y ago
  I can see now why Russia hasn't been taxed (because of the oil)
- Telemakhos 1y ago
  Is artificially changing a price to make something less affordable "fixing" a problem or creating one that didn't exist yet?
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    At the moment the price of gas is artificially low due to indirect subsidies. Eliminate those to give a fair playing field.
- nottorp 1y ago
  > This is easily fixable. Gas is a lot more expensive ("fixed" with taxes) in the EU and the electric cars are losing steam here too. You need to drive a lot (by EU urban standards at least) to justify the price premium and hassle of an all electric. Especially since we've been in a recession longer than the US which is just starting. From TFA: > But even before President Donald Trump’s sweeping tariffs on imports, many of those projects were being canceled — leaving thousands of jobs and the shift to clean energy in doubt. Might have something to do with the end of free financing too...

coliveira 1y ago

If the target, set by the government, is to be protectionist, then EVERYTHING in terms of investment needs to be canceled, because it does't make sense to invest when the internal market is going to be controlled by means of tariffs.

jklinger410 1y ago
I don't understand what you are saying here at all.
- hypeatei 1y ago
  I think what they mean is: these plans were made in another time so they might harm the company financially (or be extremely lopsided) given the "new mandate" (may change again too) from the Trump admin. Just a measure to take a step back and assess the whole picture I'm assuming.
0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
Given the chaos, how does any industry make long term investments any more? All financial plans could be flipped upside down for any reason at any time.
- Thorrez 1y ago
  I've heard the most prosperous times for the US are when the president's party is different from the congressional majority. Few laws get passed, so things stay stable for businesses.
  - Herring 1y ago
    No, the issue is half of Americans and American states are still into Red-state zero-sum policies which don't work very well in a modern world and modern economy. Today you want the black/female/trans/foreigner working at their absolute full potential, not slaving in your farm. In the past it didn't matter so much economically because slaving in your farm was still one of the most important jobs. In 1900, ~40% of the American workforce was employed in agriculture. Yet even then the (ex) slave states were poor compared to northern states because they didn’t know how to invest in their population (still don’t).

jms703 1y ago

Charging is an issue for almost everyone I know. If I could get my utility company PG&E to upgrade my power, I could consider it, but we're told we have to wait years. So we have no way to charge, and there are not enough chargers around here are.

bryanlarsen 1y ago
I know a bunch of people who charge on standard 120V/15A. That'll let you add 40 miles of range overnight. It's not as good as 240V/50A that'll fully charge your car in 4 hours, but it is enough that they only rarely have to visit local fast chargers.
- pdabbadabba 1y ago
  That's what I do. And I still don't even bother to charge most nights. If you live in a relatively urban area and don't do a lot of driving that is more than adequate.
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    The problem is your emissions are minuscule and the difference between you owning an electric car or gas car is meaningless if your goal is to save the climate. The big, heavy carbon users need to switch. But they have needs that are difficult to serve by electric
    - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
      Electric generation is the low hanging fruit but some nations are already at the stage that the power sector has lower emissions than the transport sector and it is probably the next dominoe to fall. The country saves money and gets cleaner air plus battery storage to aid in greening the rest of the grid.
    - ben_w 1y ago
      Everyone needs to switch to carbon neutral eventually, not everyone has to do it at the same time.

Tepix 1y ago

https://archive.is/qPILX https://archive.is/qPILX

jmclnx 1y ago

Trump pretty much cancelled subsidies, so at least in the US this is the largest reason. Thanks to Trump and to a lesser extent all other presidents of the US, 4C here we come my 2100 :( If not for Trump we would probably still hit 3.5C. 1.5 is a forlorn dream, and probably was a dream when it was decided upon.

EcommerceFlow 1y ago
Your ideology is demonizing and burning the company most effectively fighting climate change.
- TomK32 1y ago
  The best invention against climate change is the bicycle. Few resources to produce (often 10% of the weight of the user, a car easily weighs 2000% of it's 1.3 average passengers), low requirements for infrastructure and with a folding bike you can take it with you anywhere. Personal transport is the segment that fails to do its bit against climate change and electric cars are still cars that need wide road, parking, electric infrastructure etc.
- wormlord 1y ago
  EVs are not the solution, they just shift the emissions elsewhere and perpetuate a car-based society which is a much larger issue. Policies like NYCs congestion pricing and light rail are infinitely more impactful.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    > they just shift the emissions elsewhere The electricity grid is going emissions free faster than the transportation infrastructure. So the emissions from the production of both gasoline & electric vehicles are going down quickly.
    - wormlord 1y ago
      That doesn't solve the environmental impacts of: tire usage, EV production, battery degradation, road maintenance, charging infrastructure, and all the costs downstream of suburban development built around cars like: - millions of miles of electrical lines - millions of sq ft of parking lots - wastewater management infrastructure - sewage infrastructure - high municipal debt to service all of the above

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jjani 1y ago

> “The Respected Comrade’s brilliant economic agenda is an all-encompassing plan to revive our economy by unleashing Chosun energy, implementing tariffs to level the playing field, and bringing trillions of won in historic investments to our country’s manufacturing sector,” minister Paek Sông-Ryông said.

EcommerceFlow 1y ago

The real problem is that our auto companies (besides Tesla) are reliant and subsidized by the Government, making them highly inefficient, and unable to compete within a global market without giant subsidies.

numbsafari 1y ago
Besides Tesla?
mark242 1y ago
The real problem is that American consumers are demanding these gigantic monstrosity SUVs and trucks which literally cannot fit on European streets. When Ford et al were making hot hatchbacks, they were incredibly popular overseas. The inefficiency is at the consumer level.
- yoyohello13 1y ago
  My town is filled with massive Ford pickups. Pristine and clean, nothing in the beds. These people are no 'utilizing' the thing, it's just a status symbol. Annoys me so much.
- rapsey 1y ago
  Ford has plenty of cars that fit european roads. The problem is that their cars are garbage.
  - mark242 1y ago
    The bespoke UK/EU models are not the priority, again because they aren't being made in the US, so yes the quality drops. You cannot get, for example, a new Focus in the US market. When you could, they were much higher quality. The only Chevrolet you can buy in the UK is the Corvette. Chevrolet makes nine SUVs, four trucks (with however many infinite variations), and exactly one shitbox non-Corvette car. If US automakers started turning their eyes towards smaller more efficient cars, where hauling Brayden to and from their soccer games didn't require multiple tons of steel, then they could compete in the EU market.

roboror 1y ago

I would love an EV but the charging infrastructure is absolutely abysmal if you live in an apartment in NYC like I do.

russdill 1y ago
Yes, and it's something that can be fixed and absolutely should be fixed.
sowbug 1y ago
I've only visited NYC, but I think if I lived there I wouldn't want to drive a car at all. The public transportation and walkability are excellent. Is my impression a common misunderstanding?
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. Like apartment buildings with parking. Why the hell aren't there funding projects to provide recharging for these highly concentrated housing where electrifying/reducing emissions has compounded benefits, where you need far less wiring to provide recharging for a far larger number of cars than an equivalent amount of suburban housing? It speaks to how money is directed for infrastructure and utilities by the government. It's basically madness.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
  > It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. Um, not really. Almost all houses have 240V lines. It's non-trivial to add a ton of 240V connections into some basement that's barely wired for power. If it was as non-trivial to do in apartment complexes as it is in houses, this wouldn't be an issue. This isn't some grand scheme of mismanagement to screw over New Yorkers.
- bluGill 1y ago
  > It is an indication of US mismanagement that concentrated people can't be served with recharging infrastructure while distributed suburbanites in mcmansions can easily be served. No, it is an indication of good management for lower prices for all. Maybe an indication of lack of foresight, but electronics don't last forever, planning for EVs in 1960 would have been stupid - the fuse boxes (probably not modern breakers) would be worn out and replaced without every charging a single EV. Even today there have been a number of EV charger fires because outlets we thought were safe for EV currents for decades turn out to be marginal when put to that use and so again planning ahead would have put in the wrong thing. Suburban houses have plenty of power because you might use the dryer, stove and AC at the same time and so need that much power - but in fact nobody every uses all their power so there is enough spare power to every house for an EV. An apartment can better rely on not everyone does all that at the same time and so they can build with much less extra power and in turn save costs for everyone. Even in suburban locations, any one house has enough power, but the whole neighborhood might not and power companies are doing expensive upgrades to fix that. Not to mention power plants may not have enough spare capacity. (there are also commonly incentives to charge off peak thus using power when there is spare capacity in the system)

LightBug1 1y ago

Biggest own goals of the 21st century .... UK: Brexit USA: Donald Trump