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Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets
- taneq 2y agoMan, Anduril must be spending a fortune on advertising right now. They've been on top of HN a few times recently and I've seen a bunch of advertorials about them popping up on FB.
- swaginator 2y ago[flagged]
- xenospn 2y agoCan you imagine the size of the spreadsheet used for this RFC? Dear Lord
- Olesya000 2y ago[dead]
- ranger_danger 2y agoNixOS imploding in 3 2 1
- geor9e 2y agoThat term isn't in the article, and it's Wikipedia page doesn't have anything about military. It just says it's a Linux distro. I'm out of the loop.
- ordinaryradical 2y agoSome of the more leftwing NixOS contributors hate that Anduril is using their technology and are trying to keep them from contributing/sponsoring/etc. via code of conduct changes.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 2y agoThey should hold the next conference in Kyiv.
- vkou 2y agoOnly if their warhawk counterparts hold their next shindig somewhere in Gaza (So they can see first-hand what the consequences of their work and advocacy look like).
- relativ575 2y agoKyiv would still be the right location. Russia want anything that may distract the world's attention from the crimes they commit everyday in Ukraine.
- vkou 2y agoRussia's aggression against Ukraine, started a decade ago, the war on Palestinians has been going on for ~55 years.
- yakshaving_jgt 2y agoI don’t think it’s right to make comparisons like this. But if you really want to go there, have you tried comparing the death toll? In Ukraine, it’s likely around three quarters of a million dead in two years.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoThis comparison is irrelevant to the conversation. But even otherwise it is misleading and leaves out lots of history. The modern state of Israel has existed for that long - but if anything, it’s a war for Jewish people’s existence in land that was historically Jewish. And it wouldn’t be a “war” if Israel could exist peacefully and not constantly be threatened by terrorists. Most people don’t see a problem with a war of self defense in response to October 7, so I’m not sure what you think would happen if “warhawks” saw the “consequences” of their work. If anything, this is a low casualty conflict compared to most.
- klausa 2y agoAnduril was supposed to be a sponsor for a Nix conference; it was then dropped after community reacted negatively to having a weapons manufacturer being a sponsor. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37418351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37418351
- neonsunset 2y ago"Outraged community" were about 30 people with few to no project contributions but a lot of political slogans and of likely questionable state of mind.
- colinsane 2y agohttps://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commits?author=neon-sunset https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commits?author=neon-sunset
- neonsunset 2y agoIt doesn't take being a chef to know when something is shit :) (on the off chance that some HN audience members have reading comprehension issues - this is aimed at politically driven non-contributing participants behind the anti-anduril outrage, Nix and its creator are absolutely fine)
- pxc 2y agoSignatories to the letter against Anduril sponsorship of NixCon include contributors with thousands of Nixpkgs PRs each, like Infinisil, wegank, and Ma27, plus many other recognizable names with PR counts in the hundreds. Some of those people are also committers who have helped many, many contributors get their code in. If you can't tell that from a glance at the signatories list, you shouldn't be commenting on 'non-contributing participants'.
- ranger_danger 2y agoyet when I posted a verbatim profile page screenshot of the author while saying absolutely nothing about them myself, it was downvoted as "arrant bigotry" lol.
- colinsane 2y agoplease, don't. whatever this announcement changes, we don't need the paparazzi.
- dralley 2y agoIt's nice to see a contract go to someone that isn't Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, or Boeing every now and then.
- throwup238 2y agoAnd to a new-ish company like Anduril, too! Palmer Lucky and Co founded it in 2017 which is baby years for a lead defense contractor on a major project like this. IIUC this is the Wingman program for the F22 and F35 so these aren't "slow" drones like predators, these are going to be high performance jets. This is a serious contract!
- bglazer 2y agoTheir website says .95 Mach and 9Gs… in simulation. It’s definitely going to be high powered.
- bugbuddy 2y agoWhat kind of airframe materials will they need for 9Gs? That sounds like too much for even aerospace Titanium.
- throwup238 2y agoF22 rated load is 9g continuous (~13g burst) and it's made with mostly Ti64, thermoset composites, and aluminum [1]. It's much lower than it can be because there's no point in investing in a stronger airframe when the sustained acceleration would kill any pilot. These unmanned drones can easily be designed to withstand much more. [1] https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-mp.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-2...
- alluro2 2y ago9G shouldn't be a problem at all, from a material standpoint. Missiles go to 100G, and F1 engine pistons withstand 8.600G (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force).
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoWhy General Atomics? They are also yet another defense incumbent that needs to be disrupted. They make the Predator and other current UAVs, which are all expensive and uninteresting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_Aeronautical_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_Aeronautical_S... In general I think the government needs to move contracts away from older companies and fund young innovative ones. Partnerships between young and old simply sustain the incumbents and everything that comes with them (price structure, leadership, lobbying, etc). I would rather see many smaller companies in healthy competition for contracts.
- bandrami 2y agoDoD wants a high level of confidence that your company will still be around and delivering the exact same product to the exact same specs 20 years from now. It's why startups are basically never the primes on defense acquisitions.
- CamperBob2 2y agoBecause try to come up with a cooler name than "General Atomics," and I'll bet you can't.
- idontwantthis 2y agoNorth Central Positronics
- pclmulqdq 2y agoI assume andruil is doing the controller and consults on design, while GA largely does the aircraft. Building big aircrafts takes huge facilities, so it's not unreasonable to have a big incumbent doing this.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoMy point is we should be redirecting some funds to also support startups for those pieces, rather than resigning ourselves to the status quo.
- zoklet-enjoyer 2y agoMacross Plus
- mulmen 2y agoThis is for the next phase of the project that involves building flying prototypes. Later stages include mass production which could go to a Boeing or Lockheed. I wonder how much of the decision to give this to a smaller player is based on a desire to maintain diversity among defense contractors and the competitive advantages that come with. In other words the US Military continues to be a successful centrally planned socio-capitlaist organization.
- qp11 2y agoProbably overthinking. The Europeans signed deals with Helsing and Palantir recently for similar projects. That must have lit a fire under someones ass.
- mulmen 2y agoSorry I don’t follow. What did I overthink?
- bogtog 2y agoAround the globe, I think militaries regularly give contracts beyond just to the lowest bidders to maintain a strong base
- dcgoss 2y agoAnduril's Fury aircraft: https://www.anduril.com/fury/ https://www.anduril.com/fury/
- ninetyninenine 2y agoMarketing. Trust me... it's not that cool. They hire artists to design this stuff. Not kidding. The exterior is made by an industrial designer more so then an actual engineer. I would know, I worked at the company previously.
- whywhywhywhy 2y agoHe’s stated they have a no renders policy so would be weird if they had that then did what you suggest.
- jpgvm 2y agoWell they may have physically made the shell and thus not a render. As for if it does what it says on the tin I have no idea, maybe the commenter that suggests they have insider knowledge can clarify.
- hn_20591249 2y agoA startup founder lying to get juicy government contracts? Say it ain't so!
- whywhywhywhy 2y agoI dunno, this was pretty impressive and real, maybe OP knows better and it is a ruse. https://twitter.com/anduriltech/status/1730451908794720388/video/1 https://twitter.com/anduriltech/status/1730451908794720388/v...
- ninetyninenine 2y agoThat’s a marketing video. Cut and edited using only good HD footage. You think that’s realistic?
- SushiHippie 2y agoEven though I never heard about Anduril before, this is now the second time in a day that I 'hear' about it. The first time was a post about the latest Mark Rober video 'promoting' Anduril/military technology to a child/teen audience. https://lemmy.ca/post/19761360 https://lemmy.ca/post/19761360 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrGENEXocJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrGENEXocJU
- justrealist 2y ago[flagged]
- strictnein 2y agoI mean, it's not some secret company. It's been featured here plenty and the founder was the guy behind the Oculus VR stuff which was sold to Facebook. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=anduril https://hn.algolia.com/?q=anduril
- labrador 2y agoIn case you haven't noticed, there's a pretty serious drone war going on right now and Anduril makes drones. With the new US defense package they stand to get some business, among other reasons for them to be in the news.
- SushiHippie 2y agoOkay sorry, I'm not from the US and sometimes I think I live behind the moon. Do you mean with drone war, the usage of drones in a war (like they do in Ukraine and middle east) or a 'war' between manufacturers?
- labrador 2y agoAll of the above. Drones have changed the face of war, like the introduction of the machine gun or airplane changed war.
- boredpeter 2y ago[dead]
- anyfactor 2y agoIs Anduril really that good? I am trying to figure out what is the potential of Anduril is. Their first phase product was in observability towers for border protection, then they made drone-ramming drones and now unmanned fighter jets. I am genuinely curious. I was in the whole retail investor space since early 2010s which saw the EV hype. Workhorse was supposed to supply vans for federal postal vans, Nikola had that GM deal going on etc. Hanging around retail investor space helped made me be very skeptical about the idea of enterprise led innovation. Contract like this in my opinion requires seasoned engineering managers who have survived decades of bureaucracy but never forgot the essence of no-BS engineering. I believe SpaceX was able to bring some of these people in before they had a functional rocket. Where does Anduril stands with their management and innovation?
- yinser 2y ago[flagged]
- torginus 2y agoThe problem in the US defense industry is, that since the end of the cold war, defense companies have consolidated into just 5 huge conglomerates and the lack of competition wasn't great for the pace of innovation, affordability or timely development. And the Cold War ended more than three decades ago, about the time we went from piston aircraft to the teen series jets making up the bulk of US inventory even today. Imagine that there isn't a single engineer today at Boeing who has gone through a clean sheet fighter aircraft development cycle throughout his career. Boeing and LM, 2 of the biggest manufacturers of aircraft, have spotty reputations. I'm pretty sure the US gov. is absolutely eager to create more competition of the space.
- dralley 2y agoThere's definitely more than one problem with defense procurement, one of the biggest problems is simply having straightforward, acheivable goals in the first place and not fucking with them halfway through the process. And honestly at this point the Air Force is handling this much better than the other branches. Despite all the delays and cost overruns on the F-22 and F-35 projects, at least we ended up with really fantastic and capable platforms. The B-21 is also basically on time and budget, which is nice. Compare that to the Navy's LCS program, a massively expensive clusterfuck with very few redeeming qualities. The Army is somewhere in the middle.
- nikolay 2y agoI like Anduril, but it seems that their stuff is overcomplicated and expensive compared to what we see on the battlefield in Ukraine where hundreds of drones are downed daily. An unmanned fighter jet is a whole different ball game for them.
- ajmurmann 2y agoAFAIK Anduril capabilities go quite a bit further. From their marketing materials I understand that devices are networked sensor data is shared. All drones sees what any given drone sees and so do soldiers on the ground and the commanders. IMO this can be a massive advantage over the slow, fairly dumb drones in use in Ukraine. That said, I agree, we also need lots of cheap drones.
- mrguyorama 2y ago>From their marketing materials I understand that devices are networked sensor data is shared. This hasn't been innovative in a military context since at least Desert Storm. Actually a shared battlespace run by computers managing contacts and sharing the data with tens of platforms including sending specific intercept data to specific in air interceptors and relaying data those interceptors get back to the rest of the fleet and managing tasking for tens of different surface combatants to intelligently and efficiently task hundreds of incoming threats was rolled out to American fleets in the 1960s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Tactical_Data_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Tactical_Data_System
- some_random 2y agoIt's the difference between peacetime preparation and wartime expediency. If the Ukrainians were able to spend the time and money to move the drone supply chain home, improve sensors, implement electronic warfare workarounds, etc they absolutely would. But right now there are Ukrainians losing hands disassembling conventional warheads to mount on FPV drones because they are needed right now on the front in the fight for the nation.
- Animats 2y agoIt's impressive how much hardware they've been able to develop. Their "Fury", which they acquired from Blue Force, is "a single engine business jet with no cabin." It was originally intended as a target drone, something for fighter pilots to practice against. Anduril repurposed it as an autonomous weapons system. They do mean autonomous. Their slogan is "Autonomy for Every Mission". We're seeing the future of warfare in Ukraine. The grunts are pinned down by drones and artillery, while the mobile forces are unmanned. Zipping around in helicopters is over, once the opposition has anything that can shoot them down. The expensive fighters are more agile and survivable, but they are few. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2022/03/30/a-drone-with-a-small-bizjet-engine-might-simulate-5th-generation-fighters-for-cheap https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2022/03/30/a-drone-w...
- ethbr1 2y ago> future of warfare Color me skeptical. It feels like what we're seeing now is a local optimum: new systems (drones) designed to asymmetrically win ($) against legacy systems (mechanized vehicles) designed for very different goals. We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side. That said, I do think the Marines are right, in that distributed agility/logistics from temporary and frequently relocated basing is going to be the new normal. Russia doesn't have particularly advanced long range fires and Ukrainian inventory is limited. But conflict against China or the US would be dominated by cruise or ballistic missile strikes against any concentrated, persistent target.
- epolanski 2y agoAs always war is a rock paper scissor. As we have seen, the russians have been very good at electronic warfare and have increased their capabilities in fighting and jamming drones from sensible distance. This doesn't change what a mess "modern" war is when both sides have relatively good equipment and none can claim air superiority: symmetrical war of attrition.
- threeseed 2y agoUkraine is constantly inventing new techniques that are re-thinking what drones can do. Recently they have been using them to drop spikes to slow vehicles which are then hit by a second set of drones. At some point soon these drones will have specialised capabilities and will go out in swarms to autonomously figure out how to take down objects.
- pupileater 2y agoWhat's with defense and militech companies using Tolkien nomenclature as branding?
- rhaps0dy 2y agoI think it's a feature of followers of Peter Thiel Thought (and, in this case, Peter Thiel was one of the early investors).
- season2episode3 2y agoThe name Anduril means “Flame of the West”, which sounds cool as hell. But it feels a little icky to me given the ideological proclivities of Palmer Luckey and Thiel.
- rhaps0dy 2y agoYeah, the ideological proclivities are precisely why these companies are miltech.
- ein0p 2y agoI find it remarkable how the readers of this site are at the same time “worried about LLMs”, and totally enthusiastic towards what will inevitably become a no-human-in-the-loop Skynet. Sure, we’ll all get smashed with drones if we stop paying taxes or otherwise disobey, but at least our LLMs won’t accidentally praise Hitler or something.
- brunoqc 2y agoWe are on a venture capital website. Don't be surprised that when people read an article about killer drones, they just salivate at the sweet pentagon money.
- Aeolun 2y agoIf we don’t end up needing it: enjoy the sweet pentagon money. If we do end up needing it: enjoy the adoration of the people _and_ the money. Win-win.
- ein0p 2y agoYou’re missing a couple use cases there. Particularly the ones when these weapons, which can’t refuse an order like a meat sack soldier would, shoot at _you_. I’m not saying “don’t build weapons”, btw. By all means do. I’m saying as far as risk is concerned, this is by far the riskiest direction imaginable
- Aeolun 2y agoIf we’re making them smart enough to decide whether to shoot on their own, why wouldn’t we make them smart enough to refuse an unethical order (e.g. there’s like 80% civilians there, I’m not shooting a rocket at the target)? Obviously they won’t, but because the problem here is that the humans do not want the machine to question them, it’s only a matter of time before the bad guys have them anyway. I’m inclined to say that it’s better the good guys (at least from my perspective) have them first.
- ajmurmann 2y ago
- nbzso 2y agoThe problem you have, dear Americans is called MIC. Just quoting one of your presidents: >“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” So many wars for profit. History knows best that there is no free lunch. But I suppose consuming propaganda without a critical thinking and effort for facts is good for the business. By the way Zala Aero is the current leader in this space. That's why Ukrainian counteroffensive was a failure.
- wavefunction 2y agoWhat a smug greasy post. I can't tell if you're in favor of MIC or not, what a failure on your part.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago> zala aero I'm not following the war but thanks to your comment just read about them. They are a subunit of Kalashnikov and the latest drone uses PET bottles for fuel tank and a plywood fuselage and a banal model airplane engine found at hobby shops. It's almost like some 90s game designer is writing the plot for this.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nbzso 2y agoYep, you can check a thousand videos of those bottles with AI burning tanks, BMP’s, m777, etc. Or you can continue living in the Hollywood Metaverse. My country is part of NATO. Nobody asked us. No referendum. No voting. Nothing. The political class is filling their pockets with money, while propaganda is beyond the level of USSR and Nazi Germany. Some of us have military service behind our backs. Some of us lived under a communist dictatorship, and we know the smell of leftist bullshit. Live in your tech bubble, but know that East Europeans see clearly who is the reason for this bloodbath. And when the time comes, we will not die for your corporations as Ukrainians.:)
- bandrami 2y agoI wonder how much the Tolkien estate is getting from them and Palantir
- Aeolun 2y agoThey’re hardly trademarked are they?
- bandrami 2y agoAs original names they're under copyright in the US and UK, and in the UK the estate also retains right of publicity.
- chaostheory 2y agoJust realized that the last copyright for LOTR will end in 2050
- bandrami 2y agoIt's a patchwork. In some countries the Hobbit is already in the public domain; in others it will take another decade.
- seydor 2y ago"The war was aborted after a DMCA takedown request"
- p0w3n3d 2y agoI don't know what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
- api 2y agoEinstein was referring to the hydrogen bomb of course. If high tech superpowers went at each other full bore with H bombs we’d probably be LARPing Mad Max, but so far that hasn’t happened and seems unlikely. All leaders in all these powers know that any such exchange would be mutual and thus suicidal (MAD) so the only way it happens is if you get someone truly insane in power. What has happened since the bomb was developed and what’s likely to continue are skirmishes and proxy wars. Drones are the modern weapon of such conflicts with Ukraine and the Israel-Iran skirmish being heavily drone based. This is ugly because it’s often not the soldiers of the superpower puppet masters dying but those of puppet states, and drones allow more technological powers to beat up on less technological people like it’s a video game. If nukes are used in conflict in this century it will probably be just a few in one of these conflicts, followed by an overwhelming condemnation. But the silver lining is that since the bomb was developed the overall per capita number of humans dying in war globally has fallen dramatically. As long as we continue to avoid huge scale conflict this number will probably stay low. Without the bomb it’s likely that a WWII style conflict between the US and USSR would have erupted and killed many millions more. Some argue based on this that the bomb was a peacekeeping invention. So far that’s been true but we will see how the future goes.
- jpgvm 2y agoIt's been going on much longer in places like Yemen. Obama was the first to recognise that by switching to drones you basically don't have to face any domestic political opposition to combat.
- croon 2y agoHe certainly ramped up from W Bush, but I think it was more due to timing in technological advancements and reduced overall cost of life (American primarily, others distant second), compared to deployments. This[0] passed just a week after 9/11 (7 years before Obama). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Milit...
- Garvi 2y agoIt's hard to believe, but the times of "If I won't do it, someone else will." are back and it seems people forgot the lesson. It is my honest opinion that anyone who works on such weapons is a monster. 3 years ago this topic would be full of people protesting this. Pointing out the inhumanity, the potential for abuse, the hypocrisy, the dangers of desensitizing war. Censorship changed the game entirely.
- merman 2y agolet’s all be diplomats instead. That will save our allies!
- mistercheph 2y agoC'mon, man!
- galangalalgol 2y agoThat is indeed a horrible excuse for any action. But having been here for well over 3 years I think there has always been a diversity of opinions on such things. This is very far from an echo chamber, which is a good thing! I just hope ycombinator never tries to monetize that diversity of thought the way /. did by feeding in tangentially techincal topics they knew would be controversial. Not everyone here thinks pacifism is a good idea, not everyone here thinks the MIC is just a jobs program, not everyone here is even on the human's side in the Butlerian jihad. I'm glad they post because I am never completely sure of any of my views and they may have good arguments. And if we talk to each other it moderates the polarization.
- gcanyon 2y agoI'm hearing that dogfighting is a thing of the past because weapons systems operate at large distances anymore. Drones should do (at least?) three things well: dog fight, since they can make decisions in an instant and tolerate higher g-forces than a human can; prevent a human death if they get shot down; and be smaller/lighter/carry more/have greater range because they're not designed around carrying a pilot. Any ideas on what the driving factors are for this?
- whamlastxmas 2y agoI think the amount of space and weight a human and their required hardware need is pretty low on a jet. However the aerodynamics probably benefit a lot from not needing a high up bulbous cockpit with really good visibility
- jaysonelliot 2y agoOne important distinction, though - lethal drones should not be making decisions.
- michaelt 2y agoArguably you're right. But the makers of lethal autonomous drones would probably claim their product is really more like a cruise missile or fire-and-forget missile, where there's only a human in the loop at the moment of launch and things are autonomous thereafter.
- nyolfen 2y agothis consensus will last until the first actor defects
- mrguyorama 2y agoThis consensus doesn't exist. Computers have been designating targets and commanding attacks since at least the 60s. The Phalanx CIWS for example is designed to be run in fully automatic mode, choosing which radar contacts to engage and when to open fire on them. There's even already been friendly fire incidents from the system. Modern anti-ship missiles, torpedos, and BVR missiles also are designed with the ability to "go to this point in space and then find yourself a target and kill it" We automated target selection and tasking in warships shortly after the second world war, to combat the fact that we expected the soviets to send 200 missiles at a task force at once, and didn't think humans could manage that kind of task load. If you turn the right keys in an Arleigh Burke, every single human can leave the command part of the ship and it will still shoot planes out of the sky, all automated.
- Aeolun 2y agoWait how are these representative of a 5th gen fighter if they have a max speed below mach 1?
- nradov 2y agoEfficient supersonic capability is only one minor aspect of 5th generation fighters, and not even particularly useful for most missions. It's less important than low observability, data links, and sensor fusion.
- bearjaws 2y agoTIL there is a LOTR themed company that is making weapons, neat.
- qarl 2y agoIt's closely related to Palantir. Both are by right wing Silicon Valley libertarians sucking on the government teat.
- adampk 2y agoIn your view, does any company that does business with government organizations count as sucking on the government teat?
- qarl 2y agoPretty much, yes. Personally I don't mind the idea of sucking on the government teat - seems pretty reasonable. But when you're a libertarian doing it - I just have to laugh. Ditto Tesla. It's not a coincidence that all these guys are suffering the same hypocrisy.
- justrealist 2y agoDefense/military is one of the few government functions that libertarians endorse as totally necessary. To many, it's the only legitimate government function. I don't think you've thought about this very hard.
- qarl 2y agoAh then - so in your mind it's only Elon who's the hypocrite?
- justrealist 2y agoWhat specifically do you think Elon has said which is hypocritical?
- sandworm101 2y agoThey are pilotless. Ok. That is one job that has been removed from the equation, but take a look at any airforce base. Not everyone is a pilot. The vast majority of personnel are not pilots. These things will still need the engine techs, the avionics people, the ground crew, fuel people, air traffic controllers, all the way down to the guy driving the mule. The net change in manning between an "autonomous" drone and an oldschool drone driven by a pilot in a trailer will be minimal. And many old fighter jets retire as target drones, going on to fly unmanned for perhaps decades. New purpose-build designs might have lower operating costs but their purchase price will always be higher than slapping radio controls onto already-purchased jets.
- iamthirsty 2y ago> The net change in manning between an "autonomous" drone and an oldschool drone driven by a pilot in a trailer is minimal. Well the whole point is not to reduce headcount totally but reduce the amount of people put directly in harms way, for example a pilot flying in a direct combat scenario.
- sandworm101 2y agoAn "unmanned" drone still has a pilot. That pilot is on the ground, flying the drone remotely. An "autonomous" drone is one that has no pilot anywhere. In neither case is anyone in harm's way.
- KineticLensman 2y agoYeah, a MQ-9 Reaper for example has a ground-based pilot and payload specialist, working in conjunction with a command and control team and others.
- chasd00 2y agodowning a drone doesn't require the kind of response that killing a pilot does. It's easier to deescalate from a bunch of drones being shot down vs coffins coming home to families.
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- photochemsyn 2y agoThe introduction of autonomous flying killer robots reduces human species longevity estimates by ~50%, at least.
- gnatman 2y agoI guess autonomous platforms are exciting to defense procurement and war planners because they can use them much more aggressively in theatre without risking expensive pilots. It's hard not to think of the recent reporting on the "Lavender" AI targeting system and how these two ideas combined will lead to more indiscriminate killing of civilians. What's the calculus for human American pilot lives to collateral civilian lives? 5:1 or 40:1?
- kjkjadksj 2y agoCollateral damage should be at historic lows with an ai army. Fly a swarm like birds over a city, identify your target, and you can selectively eliminate that target with a single bullet from the drone. Sure beats filling the sky with bombers and flattening a city overnight as was done in wwii.
- littlestymaar 2y agoThe problem is how you define your “target”. In Israeli Lavender program it seems they are killing people for belonging to the same Whatsapp group as someone identified as a terrorist. And that's because Israel has a long time policy of “punishing” family members of “terrorists” (the term includes both legit terrorists but also people who are just political opponents).
- gnatman 2y agoExactly. Simply "identify the target"! It's an incredibly broad handwave that ignores all the unsolved problems in computer vision and warfare fire control.
- bugglebeetle 2y agoIt’s the height of irony to respond to this comment with some techno-utopian BS, when the parent is describing how AI is actually being used, right now, to inflict mass casualties on a civilian population. At what point to people abandon their Panglossian hypotheticals and stare reality in its face?
- 2y ago
- darknavi 2y agoIf you haven't read Kill Decision by Daniel Suarez, it's quite good (especially the audio book) and is related to unmanned killing drones. Near future sci-fi.
- gonzo41 2y agoShouldn't they be just trying to get the unit cost of a cruise missile down to like 100K. Seems a lot more effective TBH.
- acjohnson55 2y agoReading the comments here is giving me the disturbing realization that the war in Ukraine is extremely valuable to the US because the US gets to collect immense amounts of data to inform perspectives on how modern technology is revolutionizing warfare with minimal risk to American troops. And that's with technology in the hands of an extremely motivated ally against one of our top rivals. This opportunity doesn't come very often, and I can imagine there are a lot of parties interested in it persisting at least until the value in the observational data starts to tail off. Along with other concerns, this may be a reason to parcel out exactly what tech gets given to Ukraine at which times.
- kornhole 2y agoI have been watching the warfare via several Telegram channels and observe how important drone warfare now is. I watched 5 $10M Abrams tanks destroyed by $500 FPV drones. Close combat on troops is also conducted with drones with remarkable precision. We don't know how much of the targeting and execution by Russia is automated verses manual, but many experts in this field agree that Russia's technical capability is at parity and sometimes exceeds NATO's such as hypersonic missiles.
- exhilaration 2y agoI thought Russia's hypersonic missiles were a failure, with the Ukrainians shooting them down with 30 year old Patriot missiles? There were a lot of articles about it last year, here's one: https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2023/09/what-ukraines-shoot-down-hypersonic-missile-patriot-says-about-future-weapons/390498/ https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2023/09/what-ukraines-...
- kornhole 2y agoThat was fake news. https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/05/14/confirmed-ukraine-lying-about-taking-down-hypersonic-missile/ https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/05/14/confirmed-ukraine-ly... Additionally, Iran claims that Israel did not intercept any of the hypersonic missiles they fired at Israel. NATO does not possess any hypersonic missiles. Some people might say that NATO is keeping them secret, but that makes no sense. Nations exhibit their technologies as a deterrent.
- bmitc 2y agoHow does a company like Anduril come out of nowhere to scale so fast, get so much money, and so many contracts in a very entrenched field of government defense contracts? Yes, they're bringing modern industry experience to these things, but I don't see that as enough to break through all the barriers that are there. How have they done it?
- mingus88 2y agoAndruil is a bunch of ex-Palantir folk.
- AndrewKemendo 2y agoGo find any GUR operator in Ukraine and ask them what they think of Anduril Their proprietary controller doesn’t work with TAK or qgc and they keep everything closed with no interop with the actual FPV or other systems in use daily Unusable in actual war
- erhserhdfd 2y agoThat's fascinating. Where would you direct someone that is interesting in learning more about these items? Any good sources or websites to read?
- AndrewKemendo 2y agoBuild a product they want to use and they will find you
- yurikoif 2y agoI think that is skydio not anduril? Or if you could provide source about gur complaining against anduril really appreciate it
- whateveracct 2y agoAnduril is a Haskell shop fwiw
- boshalfoshal 2y agoMaybe in certain parts it is. Last time I spoke with them they were transferring some of their on-robot stacks from C++ to Rust.
- whateveracct 2y agoYeah it's not the whole company but they do recruit Haskellers often for an electronic warfare team.
- barfbagginus 2y agoHere's a fun thought. You might disagree with the SJW fork attack on nix. But if you also disagree with the idea of Haskell powered death drones blowing up innocent little baby humans, then you might have incentive to support - or at least loudly ignore - the forking / sabotage / leftist troll op. Me, I will take an Even More aggressive track: I honestly hope this turmoil leads to a better version of the nix syntax. Perhaps something much cleaner: A YAML based syntax that eliminates curly braces and the need for many nix functions. Yes, I'm being a little evil >:]