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NY Times issues DMCA takedowns of Wordle clones
- SKCarr 3y agoAnother example: https://twitter.com/QuantumYakar/status/1765421908483538971 https://twitter.com/QuantumYakar/status/1765421908483538971
- jamestimmins 3y agoCan anyone speak to how/why they have this ability? Isn't Wordle effectively just a game UX pattern? How is that copyrightable?
- abhorrence 3y agoThe only thing I can imagine here is that many of the games have "dle" or "le" suffixes and sometimes even describe themselves as "Wordle, but...". It seems more likely that it's NYT's lawyers hoping to bully the "competition".
- martinky24 3y agoIANAL. So long as you own a legitimate copyright, you can send a DMCA takedown about whatever you want. That doesn't mean it's 100% legally robust.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- op00to 3y agoSending a fraudulent DMCA notice can open the sender to fines, penalties, and legal costs and damages.
- hn_acker 3y agoIn theory. But the DMCA is significantly skewed in favor of copyright holders (and senders of DMCA notifications on copyright holders' behalves). The only "penalty of perjury" part for senders is claiming to be the copyright holder or someone authorized by the copyright holder to send the takedown notice (17 U.S.C. § 512(c)(3)(A)(vi)) [1]: > (vi)A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. As for justifying the claim of infringement, the sender only needs to claim good faith (512(c)(3)(A)(v)) [1]: > (v)A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. The person whose upload was taken down can file a counter notification, but must dispute the takedown under penalty of perjury (512(g)(3)(C)) [1]: > (C)A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled. In Lenz v. Universal Music Corp. (2015), the Ninth Circuit decided that the copyright holder (or at least the sender of the DMCA notification) must consider whether the user's uploaded material is fair use before filing the notice, but the user's burden to disprove the copyright holder's claim of good faith remains exactly the same as before the Lenz case. From the case text [2]: > To be clear, if a copyright holder ignores or neglects our unequivocal holding that it must consider fair use before sending a takedown notification, it is liable for damages under § 512(f). If, however, a copyright holder forms a subjective good faith belief the allegedly infringing material does not constitute fair use, we are in no position to dispute the copyright holder's belief even if we would have reached the opposite conclusion. Or as the Harvard Law Review put it [3]: > In short, the fair use determination does not have to be correct or reasonable; it just has to have happened. The court in Rossi held that the jury therefore had to determine if Universal’s actions sufficiently approximated a fair use analysis (even if not labeled as such) on which it could have formed a subjective good faith belief regarding fair use. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 [2] https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2015/09/14/13-16106.pdf https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2015/09/14/1... [3] https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-129/lenz-v-universal-music-corp/ https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-129/lenz-v-universal-...
- nitwit005 3y agoThe game mechanics are not copyrightable (possibly patentable). Obviously, borrowing art or design could be a copyright problem, but I have to suspect they're just blindly searching for "wordle" and sending takedowns to anything they see.
- pwahs 3y agoCan confirm, my version here also got a notice: https://github.com/pwahs/fillominordle https://github.com/pwahs/fillominordle Full notice is here: https://enterprise.githubsupport.com/attachments/token/cx6V4o3oGYyNqx98aFSga4ukM/?name=2024-03-06-nytimes.rtf https://enterprise.githubsupport.com/attachments/token/cx6V4...
- poizan42 3y agoDid you file a counter notice? I assume so since it's still up?
- igitur 3y agoIn that notice, they claim: > We have given the owner a chance to remove all references to Wordle and alter his code to not infringe The Times’s copyright, but he has doubled down on knocking off The Times’s copyrighted content. This is just false. The owner of the original Reactle repo (now deleted) was never contacted previously.
- skrebbel 3y agoI don’t understand why lawyers aren’t disbarred when caught flat out lying in contracts, injunctions and the likes. The fact that this behavior is considered “ok” reflects awfully on the entire profession.
- logicalfails 3y agoI bet some NYT is planning some changes to Wordle use/tracking so they have to clamp down on the competition. They will likely requiring NYT login just to play, or adding additional ads to page
- leotravis10 3y agoOr pay to play aka a NYT Games sub.
- 3327 3y ago[dead]
- ametrau 3y agoThat’s fair enough imo. They do own the rights.
- milesvp 3y agoThe game is mastermind with letters. Even mastermind probably has prior art. Also, hard to say that there is a right to stop clones given rules aren’t copyrightable.
- livrem 3y agoYes, Mastermind is a variant of an old folk game called Bulls and Cows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_Cows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_Cows
- suddenclarity 3y agoArchived: https://archive.is/D03zW https://archive.is/D03zW The relevant part seems to be the mention of "React Wordle" as well as: > The Times owns U.S. Copyright Reg. No. PA0002342355 in Wordle as an electronic file and computer file for a videogame. The Times’s Wordle copyright includes the unique elements of its immensely popular game, such as the 5x6 grid, green tiles to indicate correct guesses, yellow tiles to indicate the correct letter but the wrong place within the word, and the keyboard directly beneath the grid.
- eps 3y agoIt's worded to imply that second sentence is linked to the first, but based on other comments here (about game design not being copyrightable) it looks like an attempt to mislead.
- hn_acker 3y agoGreen in the US is the common sense color for being correct (or having permission to proceed, as in the case of a green traffic light or a "not occupied" restroom indicator, but I digress). New York Times, ever heard of a green checkmark? "Give the green light" meaning "give approval"? Green means yes. Green means good. (It also means envy... NY Times is seeing green.) Yellow to indicate the partial correctness of a correct letter in the wrong position? Probably the most valid part by far of the notification. Still stupid though, since yellow in the green-yellow-red traffic light color trinity can mean "between completely good (green) and completely bad (red)". Is the clone's use of yellow merely copying of NY Times' expression? Or is it an agreement to follow a "yellow is half-good" cultural norm too/instead? Having an on-screen keyboard directly below the grid? The merger doctrine protects copying of the positioning [1]: > A broader but related concept is the merger doctrine. Some ideas can be expressed intelligibly only in one or a limited number of ways. The rules of a game provide an example.[14] In such cases the expression merges with the idea and is therefore not protected.[15] ... > The merger doctrine has been applied to the user interface design of computer software, where similarity between icons used by two different programs is acceptable if only a very limited number of icons would be recognizable by users, such as an image looking like a page to represent a document.[17] There are only so few ways to reasonably orient/position an on-screen keyboard relative to the rest of the game elements without confusing the user. Top, bottom, left, right. Some of those four are less reasonable on different screen dimensions. (Sanity check: you're not gonna gonna force everyone else to put the on-screen keyboard off-center, are you?) Check out the case of the banana taped to a wall for an analogous merger doctrine case about angles rather than positions [2]. The existence of an onscreen keyboard is a functional element, and functional elements are ideas. The idea–expression distinction makes ideas uncopyrightable. My knowledge of copyright is US-centric, but I think the following argument from the Europe Union would fly in the US [1]: > As stated by the European Court of Justice in SAS Institute Inc. v World Programming Ltd., "to accept that the functionality of a computer program can be protected by copyright would amount to making it possible to monopolize ideas, to the detriment of technological progress and industrial development."[7] An onscreen keyboard is more accessible to people without working physical keyboards (phone users? broken keys?) or who don't want to use a physical keyboard because of their own functional preferences (or personal challenges, which are obviously not the game developer's expression. think "no A button" challenges). Additionally, having the keyboard's colors match the board's colors reduces the cognitive burden on the user of remembering which letters can't be used when the user looks at the onscreen keyboard. The 5 wide grid is an uncopyrightable game rule. 5 is the length of a valid word. Changing the width of the game significantly changes the validity of the player's options. More substantially, the merger doctrine (only a small number of reasonable, distinct options = not copyrightable) applies to word lengths. The 6 height grid is an uncopyrightable rule. You get 6 chances. Fewer chances means harder game. A particular game difficulty should not be exclusive to one party and therefore should not be copyrightable. References to Wordle are a trademark issue. Does nominative use [3] in trademark law allow people to say "my word game is based off of <existing word game's name>?" Not sure. But I doubt that the clones' uses of the name "Wordle" cause market-changing customer confusion about which games are and aren't affiliated with NY Times. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea%E2%80%93expression_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea%E2%80%93expression_distin... [2] https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/20/court-finally-dismisses-bananas-copyright-lawsuit-over-bananas-taped-to-walls/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/20/court-finally-dismisses-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use
- templeosenjoyer 3y agoGross. Reminder that NYT ripped off the 'connecting walls' of Only Connect, though their version—Connections—is low quality in comparison. PuzzGrid[1] does it better, for anyone who plays Connections. [1] https://puzzgrid.com/ https://puzzgrid.com/
- MrKey 3y agoI got the same. Did make a clone and localised it, and then forgot about it. Apparently, every cloned project was in the notice list. Deleted and forgot. Treating it as a case study how to protect the rights. One might say that it is against freedom etc., but in my opinion this makes intellectual capital a value. E.g. I now believe it is worth to invest in innovations and so on. (It does not mean I will do it as I lack the will and resources.) When I was younger I didn't know how to protect my code and capitalise it, therefore this case resonates with me in such way.
- Etherlord87 3y agoImagine that someone on the street said you have red shoes, but he had red shoes first. So you should remove shoes. And you comply. But you're not sad about it - in your opinion it makes intellectual capital a value. E.g. you now believe it is worth to wear a particular color of a particular apparel first and so on. The problem: it was never stated by some kind of an authority, that the bully was right. He might as well have been wrong, and you granted his wish to remove your shoes simply on the basis of, to put it lightly, not being assertive enough.
- nybble41 3y agoOr to put it another way, the "intellectual capital" argument presupposes that you aspire to become a bully yourself, and live among a society of similar bullies. There is no incentivising effect on someone who wishes to innovate without abusing the legal system to stop others from creating similar things.
- squigz 3y agoThis is pathetic. The AI lawsuit sort of makes sense, but this just makes them seem like assholes. Oh well... I'm sure this will stop people from writing and hosting the code they want to. And, I mean, it's really too bad it's archived... https://web.archive.org/web/20240306172335/https://github.com/cwackerfuss/reactle https://web.archive.org/web/20240306172335/https://github.co...
- usmansme 3y agoI got the same email today for a fork of `thesam73/wordle` I still have mixed feelings about this one. Because if let's say someone is learning web dev and thinks of building such clone and open sources it on GitHub, isn't that stopping people from learning? Edit: Seems like the author does not want to fight NYT and hence disabled the repo. I think that's ok and I'll do the same (they also want all forks to be gone) https://web.archive.org/web/20240306171920/https://github.com/cwackerfuss/reactle/issues/765 https://web.archive.org/web/20240306171920/https://github.co...
- nubinetwork 3y agoI'm getting Tetris Corp vibes...
- hn_acker 3y agoI'm assuming that you're referring to the Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc. case. My opinion is that only the color choices in Mino and possibly the placement of the next pieces display relative to the game board should've counted as infringement. Everything about the board size, the piece geometries, the piece movements, and the existence of the next pieces display, the number of pieces in the next pieces display, and the existence of 3D-like lighting should have been treated as ideas or functional elements with respect to the idea–expression distinction and the merger doctrine.
- nubinetwork 3y agoNo I'm referring to how they shut down every block game clone, not a specific one in general.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoRelated/not-related: Did Spotify retain any trademark over Heardle, their music-based intro game that appeared shortly after the Wordle boom (and then they shut down abruptly)
- nesswit 3y agoI received the same email. My repository is yf-dev/mahjong-hand-guessing-game, and it's a variant of the Wordle game with Japanese Rich Mahjong rules. I don't think it's the same game as Wordle, because it's not a word-guessing game, and it has a 14x6 grid. The name of the game is also inspired by Wordle, hence Mahjong Handle, but handle is a common noun that already exists, so I don't think there's a problem.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- leotravis10 3y ago404 Media has additional coverage: https://www.404media.co/nytimes-files-copyright-takedowns-against-hundreds-of-wordle-clones/ https://www.404media.co/nytimes-files-copyright-takedowns-ag...
- josephcsible 3y agoGame mechanics aren't copyrightable, right? So unless these clones copied the code, aren't these takedowns invalid?
- jsheard 3y agoIn general you can't copyright game mechanics, but trade dress laws provide a loophole around that. You can legally protect how a game is presented, and in some cases that's intrinsically tied to the game mechanics enough that you can't really get around it, which is how The Tetris Company has been able to effectively lock down the exclusive rights to the Tetris mechanics and successfully sued those who tried to make a Tetris clone without their approval.
- akudha 3y agoIf I made a scrabble app, is that not allowed? How come Wordfeud, words with friends etc are allowed?
- josephcsible 3y agoBut does the DMCA apply to trade dress?
- qarl 3y agoSo... just how long did the NYT run crosswords without license of the inventor?
- slimebot80 3y agoWordle isn't an original game. The game mechanics pre-existed before the inter webs.
- ssdspoimdsjvv 3y agoIt was a popular game show in the Netherlands. Loved watching it as a kid.
- pacifika 3y agoLingo and Jotto
- sp332 3y agoWell I had a NYT games subscription, but I just cancelled it. I can't believe they used my money to take down a bunch of games I also played.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lacoolj 3y agohere is the full record that comes from copyright.gov (https://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=PA0002342355&Search_Code=FT*&PID=DvGTnzDD2_rik3PWtQlhpuHtW&SEQ=20240308173216&CNT=25&HIST=1 https://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=P...): Type of Work: Computer File Registration Number / Date: PA0002342355 / 2022-03-28 Application Title: Wordle. Title: Wordle. Description: Electronic file (eService) Notes: Videogame. Copyright Claimant: The New York Times, Transfer: By written agreement. Date of Creation: 2021 Date of Publication: 2021-06-20 Nation of First Publication: United States Authorship on Application: Josh Wardle; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United Kingdom. Authorship: computer program code and text of instructions. Rights and Permissions: William Patterson, Swanson, Martin & Bell, 330 North Wabash Avenue, Suite 3300, Chicago, IL, 60611, wpatterson@smbtrials.com Copyright Note: C.O. correspondence. Names: Wardle, Josh New York Times ===============================================================================
- zzo38computer 3y agoCharles Reid invented a game called "Word" in 1973 and wrote the code in BASIC and published the code in a book of "BASIC Computer Games".