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Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder
- loeg 3y ago"Cannabis use" (HN title) and "Cannabis use disorder" (actual title) have very different meanings. The HN title should be corrected.
- cratermoon 3y agofull PDF: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fa2eabb04edcf45a65121de/t/64b41b0b3ee306752cc86ceb/1689525004116/MJ+and+risk+uni+and+bipolar.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fa2eabb04edcf45a6512...
- tptacek 3y ago"Cannabis Use Disorder", not "Cannabis use". The appropriate title is "Cannabis Use Disorder and Subsequent Risk of Psychotic and Nonpsychotic Unipolar Depression and Bipolar Disorder".
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoThey love to tack on syllables as if it will be more P.C. than "pot abuse"
- tptacek 3y agoNo, "cannabis use disorder" does not seem to be a medical euphemism for any consumption of cannabis at all.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoNo not what none what now? > In the 2013 revision for the DSM-5, DSM-IV abuse and dependence were combined into cannabis use disorder. The legal problems criterion (from cannabis abuse) has been removed, and the craving criterion was newly added, resulting in a total of eleven criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_use_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_use_disorder You're trying to refute something I didn't say. I said that "cannabis abuse" became "cannabis use disorder" which is less offensive to pot addicts, but also contains two extra syllables, does that make sense?
- daft_pink 3y agoHave you ever met someone with schizophrenia? I would never engage in any activity that increases the likelihood of a permanent life ruining mental illness!
- shawnz 3y agoThat statement is obviously not true in an absolute sense, for example, do you avoid driving cars due to the chance of acquiring PTSD after a severe accident?
- glouwbug 3y agoI mean, I do. But I’m also slightly anxious
- claytongulick 3y agoI have. I worked inpatient psychiatry for ~6 years. All substances you consume have non-zero risk associated with them. Including seemingly benign things like milk. It's the job of every person to understand their body and to do a risk/reward analysis on anything you consume. For many, the benefits of THC/CBD/cannaboids outweigh the risks. > I would never engage in any activity that increases the likelihood of a permanent life ruining mental illness! I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount that you already do. Sugar, antibiotics, medications, heavy metals... take your pick.
- Vecr 3y agoCan you explain about the milk? Is it just the sugar content or something else? I'm genuinely interested, I've never heard about that before.
- claytongulick 3y agoCompletely aside from the bizarre habit of adults drinking lactate from a different species - the milk industry is scary (at best). Cows are hooked up to metal frames with tubes going in and out of all the holes, being pumped full of hormones to keep them lactating. These tubes, of course, cause infection so they are also pumped full of antibiotics. The produced milk contains infectious pus. The FDA has (weak) standards on how much pus is permitted in consumer milk. Hint: it's not zero [1]. Milk also has a ton of other allergens. I personally developed an allergy to milk protein that causes rashes and blisters. My wife, son and step daughter all have the same allergy. And milk is probably one of the more benign of the terrible things the food industry sells us. [1] https://genv.org/pus-in-milk https://genv.org/pus-in-milk
- labrador 3y ago> In this cohort study of 6 651 765 individuals in Demark, cannabis use disorder was associated with an increased risk of both psychotic and nonpsychotic unipolar depression and bipolar disorder. I'm guessing they don't mean over 6 million Danes have cannabis use disorder, but are talking about the minority that do. In that case I'd wonder which came first, the mental disorder or the cannabis use disorder (I haven't read the full text)
- aliyfarah 3y agoYeah not sure about that, plus most sources have Denmark as having less than 6 million in total population.
- clumsysmurf 3y agoSeems like every week, the health aspects around marijuana become more bleak. In the past few weeks alone: (1) Cannabis is a scavenger of metals and users had higher levels of lead and cadmium https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-high-blood-urinary-metal-exclusive.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-high-blood-urinary-me... (2) "there's a lot of overlap in terms of the toxins and carcinogens that are in [both] cannabis and tobacco smoke" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-americans-marijuana-safer-cigarette-theyre.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-americans-marijuana-s...
- riffic 3y ago[flagged]
- alchemist1e9 3y agoMore like society has trouble facing the truth about one of it’s popular vices. The empirical evidence is overwhelming that there are very serious public health issues, yet so many people have an extremely biased vested interest in either continuing their vice, profiting from others, or simply getting votes. It will probably go down in 20 years as a disgraceful period of denialism, the promotion and legalization and misinformation to several generations of youth.
- xp84 3y agoMaybe I’m just biased because I’m from an area where they grew a lot of weed before legalization anyhow, but I don’t know that the youths are consuming any more cannabis (or that a larger proportion of them do it) now. It was already there, readily available, and highly prized amongst the same kind of people 20 or 30 years ago. So to me, the major difference is…how bad they’re made to feel about their drug of choice, I guess?
- alchemist1e9 3y agoPotency continues to increase and the message being heard by the general population is that cannabis is “safe”, that’s why it’s increasing legal. My own children believe “it has medical purposes”. The billboards and advertisements also convey this message. This idea cannabis has “health” benefits is beyond absurd. Unfortunately it will trigger and already has a serious mental health epidemic society wide. Sometimes, actually frequently, the empirical realities are hard for societies to accept rationally. Users all enjoy it. Businesses profit from it. Governments collect tax revenue. Politicians collect votes and support. It’s like pollution or other externalities, this one the cost being numerous lives ruined with schizophrenia etc.
- throwaway5959 3y agoThe only way I can deal with my sociopathic coworkers is through cannabis use, so I’ll roll the dice. Edit: downvote me daddy
- thsksbd 3y agoI believe that. There is no doubt in my mind that a good portion of substance abuse is driven by what are issues relating to societal collapse. I dont really blame drug users for what is usually escapism from our industrialized society rat race.
- binary132 3y agoYou’ve probably considered this, but habitual use actually makes it harder to cope.
- throwaway5959 3y agoI don’t use it often enough for that, thankfully. Just every once in a while to reset and take the edge off.
- FrozenSynapse 3y agoHave you considered that your coworkers are not sociopathic and only your perception of them is altered?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- throwaway5959 3y agoI’ve witnessed the following: 1. A director screaming at a subordinate. 2. Employees working so hard that they had to take time off due to health reasons, related to overwork. All were on visas and in this job market they don’t have a lot of options. 3. Employee A being so mean to an employee B that she started crying in a meeting. Employee A wasn’t even reprimanded. I obviously no longer work there. But yes, it is my perception that is wrong.
- andrewstuart 3y agoThere's lots of people who take this sort of thing as reason to criminalize cannabis. Regardless of the problems, it is still a personal health issue. Criminalizing causes more harm than good.
- daft_pink 3y agoI don't think people should be put in jail for cannabis. However, we shouldn't be devoting our tier 1 retail space or having startups with massive advertising budgets pushing it. It should be sold as a generic drug by pharmacies that make most of their business from other drugs not dispensary entrepreneurs creating massive retail brands like alcohol.
- teen 3y agoit's def not as bad as alcohol... considering alcohol causes drunk driving, liver issues, obesity, stomach cancer, domestic violence
- ForestCritter 3y agoRegular Marijuana use has a high domestic violence rate.
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- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- eep_social 3y agoSure let’s please do the same for alcohol and caffeine.
- l33t7332273 3y agoWhat is the health justification for banning caffeine?
- lexandstuff 3y agoThe title is incorrect. It implies a causal effect, where the article suggests correlation. Also, it refers to a cannabis use disorder, not cannabis use (as mentioned by others). I propose: "Cannabis use disorder correlated to increased risk of both psychotic and non-psychotic unipolar depression and bipolar disorder." Or even: "People with major depression, bipolar disorder and psychosis are more likely to be addicted to cannabis."
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kristopolous 3y agoIn your last suggestion you can just leave off the last 2 words.
- avodonosov 3y agoWhy not use the original title of the paper?
- wonicionai 3y ago[flagged]
- riffic 3y agoprohibition of cannabis has perpetuated greater harms than those it would attempt to mitigate.
- tomrod 3y agoAgreed. Edit: I misread your post earlier. Apologies.
- riffic 3y agoedit: apology accepted, glad we're on the same side here I was too lazy to argue my case anyways. the demon weed strikes again
- tomrod 3y agoWay too much travel today for me to do anything more than lurk. Edited comment, apologies, I actually agree with you and completely missed the word "prohibition."
- mikeweiss 3y agoIt has, and ironically one of those harms is that in the U.S at least ...it is still illegal or incredibly difficult to do medical studies on cannabis and it's effects because it remains a controlled substance. We need to reclassify cannabis at the federal level now so that scientists are free to do research without breaking the law.
- idopmstuff 3y agoThat looks to be happening imminently: https://www.marijuanamoment.net/congressional-researchers-say-dea-likely-to-reschedule-marijuana-with-broad-implications-for-taxes-housing-immigration-and-more/ https://www.marijuanamoment.net/congressional-researchers-sa...
- hedora 3y agoJust today, I read some GOP members of the house want to deploy troops to Mexico as part of the war on drugs (with permission from the current Mexican government, but still a shooting war with the [other] cartels).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 01100011 3y agoObviously people with mental discomfort are more likely to seek comfort in mind altering substances. That said, as someone who is bipolar, has bipolar friends and has used cannabis for a significant portion of my half-century on Earth, cannabis usage is proportional to mood instability in myself and my friends. I have taken extensive breaks and noticed I am much more mentally resilient and less emotionally labile when taking breaks.
- mvdtnz 3y ago> Obviously people with mental discomfort are more likely to seek comfort in mind altering substances. This can be true at the same time that cannabis use disorder increases the likelihood of mental illness is true. These are not mutually exclusive.
- 01100011 3y agoYes. I believe I said as much in the second half of my comment.
- wyclif 3y agoYou just nailed the paradox at the heart of much cannabis legalization discourse. I don't think the general public understands the "not mutually exclusive" point.
- 2-718-281-828 3y agos/he said that.
- manicennui 3y agoI learned a new word: labile. "Apt or likely to change."
- jalino23 3y agoI didnt know that word before reading this too. is it grammatically correct to say "there is nothing more non-labile than a temporary code"
- sandofsky 3y agoI can't see the full study methodology without an account. That said… The challenge with running studies ethically is that you can't split your test groups into two groups and somehow induce cannabis use disorder and see if major depression, bipolar, etc results from it. Rather, you can see if the people who naturally develop the disorder also have those problems. The flaw in this reasoning is that people who develop depression and similar issues are likely to self-medicate with cannabis. In related news, umbrellas do not cause rain.
- cratermoon 3y agoTry this: full PDF: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fa2eabb04edcf45a65121de/t/64b41b0b3ee306752cc86ceb/1689525004116/MJ+and+risk+uni+and+bipolar.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fa2eabb04edcf45a6512...
- l33t7332273 3y agoHow is correlation vs causation determined in other studies where a control group cannot be used?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- PheonixPharts 3y agoIt's important to recognize that we've never successfully answered Hume's general skepticism about the existence of causality as something that is real outside of our own minds. So causality can't be positively confirmed to exist at all, let alone be detected and confirmed through statistics. Before you dismiss that is philosophical non-sense, causality is closely related to the "Arrow of Time" which is considered an unsolved problem in physics [0]. From what we've observed time appears to be the only asymmetric physical process, largely due to entropy (that is you can immediately tell if a video of a jar breaking is being played backwards because we don't expected a jar to "fall together"). There are Quantum processes, for example, that are time symmetric, that is playing a video of these processes would look the same reversed and forward. That said, as someone who does a lot of statistics, in practice what we do is model the causal process with a directed acyclic graph and see how well our models behave under causal assumptions. These work okay for answering practical questions about does A cause B. By controlling for correlating variables we can see the impact on what we believe to be a causal variable when we condition on these other correlating factors. Worth mention that nearly all of the work is done by linear models in practice. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time
- kikokikokiko 3y agoDoes it really surprises anyone that a psychoactive drug have psychoactive effects on it's users? This whole "cannabis is an inofensive natural plant" is so dumb, of course a drug that alters your mind and is used regularly will produce side effects on it's users. The other thing that I always try to warn my pot head friends is about the pulmonary risks involved in cannabis use. I know guys that smoke all day pretty much non stop. Imagine if instead of weed, it was tobacco cigarretes, UNFILTERED, being burned up and breathed in. Smoke is smoke, and your lungs will get covered in ashes and debris over time. Pot heads are just alcoholics who destroy their lungs instead of their livers, the mental impairment part is the same. I'm not talking about drinking a beer or two on the weekend, or smoking a joint once a week. I'm talking about the wake and bake type of guys.
- kromem 3y agoAs it naturally occurs it probably was fairly innocuous in longer term psychoactive effects. Heirloom strains had CBD alongside THC. CBD on its own has been as effective in research as antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia, and very much mitigates the OP effects in research. But the vast majority of product today has selectively bred out the CBD. It's time we stop talking about cannabis use and start regarding it as THC use, as the full spectrum of the original plant is no longer what people are really using. It'd be like selectively breeding high arsenic almonds and then people getting sick eating them and declaring the problem as one impacting almond consumption instead of more specifically arsenic consumption. THC unmitigated by CBD is a psychiatric sleeping giant that's currently not being addressed because the pendulum swing is still glowing strong with legalization momentum and any criticism is generally dismissed as simply being anti-cannabis use generally.
- monero-xmr 3y agoEvery single chemical I put into my body has risk. Too much salt, caffeine / coffee, cheese, pasta / carbohydrates. When I drive a car I’m rolling the dice. When I let my 10 year old walk by himself to the subway, ride it to his friend’s house, and then ride it back, my mind can wander to all sorts of dangers. Marijuana is absolutely a drug with downsides. There are also upsides - for example I enjoy my life more. I also enjoy alcohol, sometimes to excess. I acknowledge I have taken likely years of my life away through my actions. I have also dabbled in cocaine and ecstasy. I don’t think those drugs should be totally illegal either. My point is we all make our own decisions and are forced to accept risk. Sometimes you just have to live. Otherwise why bother living?
- octodog 3y agoAbsolutely, nothing wrong with that. It's important to understand the risks so that one can make informed choices. That is probably where there needs to be more research.
- tomohelix 3y agoOf course, I have no complaints or problems with things people do behind closed doors. I only have issues with those who smoke so much it reeks even when they are not smoking or I am 10ft away from them and still smell it.
- SamPatt 3y ago10 ft away? I wish it were only that far. After legalization here in Michigan, you can smell it seemingly everywhere. I supported, and still support, legalization. But the smell is a serious issue. Even just driving down the road I catch a whiff from other cars or buildings nearly every day.
- networkchad 3y ago[dead]
- senttoschool 3y agoI just quit weed after getting addicted for almost 2 years. There is a large community of people who are trying to quit: /r/leaves The article is nothing new to me. Read a few posts from the subreddit and you'd see a pattern. Three weeks ago, I was pro-weed recreation legalization. Today, I'm strongly anti recreation use. Edit: I'm not against decriminalization of weed. I'm highly against pro-recreational use. I'm against high THC %, easy access, advertisements, sponsorships, etc. I believe weed should be classified as a highly addictive drug - especially to youth. We should not have weed stores. It should be sold behind the counter. It should have a very high tax so that it's not cheap. It should have huge, bold warning labels on packaging. It should not be legalized at the federal level.
- andrewstuart 3y ago>> Today, I'm strongly anti Haha like all reformed addicts of anything. I'm strongly anti cigarettes.
- senttoschool 3y agoWell, I wouldn't have been strongly anti recreational use if I didn't go through what I did. Extremely high THC products coupled with professional marketing agencies? Yikes. We're going to have a weed epidemic soon. Maybe it's a silent epidemic now.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> We're going to have a weed epidemic soon. Maybe it's a silent epidemic now. Whatever it is, it's been underway for long enough for the pot-parade of horribles to manifest itself. Heavy weed smokers are all over - but we aren't surrounded by ruin that is clearly attributable to pot. If you have extra concern to invest, may I suggest one of our most pressing psychological catastrophe? The criminalization of childhood growth (adult-free time) and the erasure of critical free range land. We've brought complete ruin to childhood and parenting in just two generations. Whatever you think pot is doing, this is actually far, far worse.
- 3y ago
- scythe 3y ago>These findings may inform policies regarding the legal status and control of cannabis use. But not without NNTs. For depression, OR = 1.8, NNT = 12 (assuming 10% lifetime incidence, this is very hard to estimate due to the difficulty in diagnosis). For bipolar disorder, OR = 3, NNT = 25. This is before accounting for any reverse causation: roughly 80% of incidence of BPD is associated with genetic variation.
- avodonosov 3y agoCould you elaborate?
- scythe 3y agoThe Wikipedia article is a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_needed_to_treat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_needed_to_treat So e.g. assuming a fully causal association with bipolar disorder (unlikely due to the strong genetic influence on bipolar disorder) you need 25 people to stop smoking weed to prevent one case of bipolar disorder. You can also calculate it in terms of how many people do you need to imprison to prevent one case of bipolar disorder. This is particularly revealing when you look at studies giving an odds ratio of 2-3 for cannabis use associated with schizophrenia. The base rate for schizophrenia is <0.02% [1], so the NNT is >2500. You probably need to imprison hundreds of people to prevent one case of schizophrenia, again assuming the association is causal. The claim that these studies should impact marijuana legality is just plain bad math. 1: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=76ef8b1739dce5b548a12d9a7d8a686f6f5eaeb6 https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&d...
- kromem 3y agoJust a reminder for anyone reading this that CBD has been shown to be an effective antipsychotic in its own right [1], and particularly in regards to THC related psychosis [2]. It's probably not a great idea that the industry is moving towards high concentration THC and low to zero CBD product. The "naturally occurring plant" is getting further and further from what's naturally occurring with the psychosis inducing compound coexisting with the psychosis mitigating compound. It's quite disappointing to walk into a dispensary and see only a tiny shelf in one corner of the store with 1:1 or greater CBD products and 95% of the product on offer as a race to the bottom in CBD potency. In the majority of people, this won't necessarily result in a psychotic issue, but it's going to happen commonly enough that we're going to have continuing and expanding social issues if 1:1 products don't become more commonplace. I'd strongly encourage any future legalization legislation to consider marginally subsidizing product that has higher CBD ratios, as often I see that the consumer push towards THC only is related to cost saving against more expensive mixed products. ----- 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7955839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7955839/ 2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7955839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7955839/
- kromem 3y agoEh, can't edit in my client. First link: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/understanding-relationship-between-cannabidiol-and-psychosis-clinical-issues https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/understanding-relation...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sourcecodeplz 3y agoYeah, cannabis contains a multitude on cannabinoids: THC, CBD, CBN, CBG and CBC. These high-thc & low-cbd strains fuck you up immensely. Not saying you should never use weed, if I go to Amsterdam, I will for sure use it but I don't bring it back home with me. Smoking once every couple of months will not harm you at all, IMHO.
- fb03 3y agoCannabis should be legalized and regulated. Period. People that want to partake ofc should have safe access to it. That doesn't means and has never meant it is a harmless thing, like some groups portray it to be. "it's just a naturally ocurring plant!" Education, more information and less zealotry help on both sides of the discusstion. It's not the devil's lettuce they had people think with 60s propaganda, but it's not a panacea either. Extremes are not good.
- Vecr 3y agoA lot of naturally occurring plants are harmful, castor beans or foxglove for example.
- orblivion 3y agoIt always seemed like it would be a sea change if the government actually decoupled "this is an okay idea" from "we won't forcefully stop you from doing this". It thus made it feel impossible that they'd legalize drugs, but it's great to see it start to happen. But there may be other long standing examples I'm not thinking of. Smoking and alcohol seem to be on the edge.
- bottlepalm 3y agoIt's difficult to 'educate' people when we don't know a lot about it. For example, for many people weed is good for a few years, but eventually descend into paranoia, unable to smoke even a little bit. What is causing that? A change in the brain? Is that harmful? Are there other side effects?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- skywhopper 3y agoThe headline here does not match the study, which just says the two are associated.
- engineer_22 3y agoThose are features, not bugs
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoA few months ago, we had a support group going at my clinic, with several patients with various diagnoses which are not directly discussed. We also had a presentation on sleep hygiene by a visiting psychiatrist. One of the newer support group members was openly promoting his love of smoking a joint and a cigarette and chilling out in the morning, and the psychiatrist said "cool, you do you!" Then the next week, the clinician leader of the support group laid down a few ground rules for the new members, one of them being "if you show up while you're high, then you'll be gone just as quickly". So I think it's safe to say that there is a range of opinions and attitudes among clinical professionals.
- ramblenode 3y agoIt could also be the psychiatrist realizes it's bad but, being in a group probably filled with bad habits, has to pick which battles to fight.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> has to pick which battles to fight. One can also pick how to battle. A hostile zero tolerance edict wasn't necessary to anything.
- somsak2 3y agoand yet the only way many addicts can get and stay clean is through exactly a zero tolerance approach
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> and yet the only way many addicts can get and stay clean is through exactly a zero tolerance approach As long as pointless hostility gets a pass (as it does in your reply) and is allowed to be part of a solution - it isn't a great solution.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoI have a friend who makes a good tech salary and lives in $LARGE_CITY, and she and I have compared notes on mental disorders over the years. She enjoys her drugs, of all kinds. She worked hard to connect with a psychiatrist who could both prescribe the sorts of drugs she's into, and also not shame her for the recreational drugs she does on the side. She pays out-of-pocket for the privilege. It became apparent to me that she's not really into treatment of her condition or healing, or repairing her relationships with friends and family. She just seemed to be on a hedonistic journey of seeking pleasure. So you can decriminalize and reschedule all the drugs you want, but people will self-medicate, and find dangerous uses. People who use illegal or OTC or alternative treatments will not always report those to their physician or pharmacy. Even if they do, all interactions are not known, but many dangerous ones can result from trying to put someone on psychotropics while they're under the influence of something else.
- user3939382 3y agoJust my personal take, wouldn’t seek to push others to adopt it. Smoking weed hurts your ability to think and learn. If you have responsibilities to children or shareholders etc you shouldn’t be doing it. If you don’t and it doesn’t hurt others who are relying on you have at it, but still sparingly as not to be abusing your body and mind.
- newsclues 3y agoDo your views on smoking cannabis apply to alcohol as well? Or do you adapt a more reasonable appropriate time and place for that type of drug? I not sure if it hurts peoples ability to learn, even if some people have some memory impairment. But cannabis and other drugs change the way people think, and that can be good or bad depending on many factors. Have people created great creative works under the influence of cannabis? Yes. Would they have been better art if the artist had not consumed cannabis? Maybe not. I know high functioning executives and parents who work and take care of family all day and eat an edible to go to sleep. And on Sunday night, they might smoke a joint and eat a meal with friends and discuss their next book or investment in between diaper changes.
- rapind 3y ago> eat an edible to go to sleep. I could care less if people get high, but as a general principle I will never consume a drug to help me sleep unless there’s a really good (doctor consulted) reason. I think we’re just setting ourselves up for an unhealthy dependence when we do that. (besides weed always had the opposite effect on me)
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoI wake up at least 4 times a night and get horrible sleep unless I eat an edible before bed. Just 5mg THC helps me sleep through the night. I just started regularly consuming marijuana this past year and it's been great as a sleep aid. I've tried a couple of prescription drugs and they make me feel awful.
- ajfdsaaj4e4ea 3y agoI'm terrified of seeking help for mental illness because certain diagnosis can have legal impacts. It is a sad truth, no one has a real response for it except "get over it", and it is very, very difficult to get support for political reforms to protect the mentally ill. I am also terrified the medications we force on some mental health patients, especially injected long-term ones, are purely for the benefit of the care taker and not the individual. I think cannabis had fell into a niche of "self-medication", for people who the system doesn't seem to work for. Cannabis nor alcohol are the ideal medications, they are simply the only ones most easily available.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- no_butterscotch 3y ago> I'm terrified of seeking help for mental illness because certain diagnosis can have legal impacts. It is a sad truth, no one has a real response for it except "get over it", and it is very, very difficult to get support for political reforms to protect the mentally ill. What are some of the impacts? I remember the show "Homeland" the main character had a sister who was a doc who would prescribe her meds for bipolar, that way she could continue working for the government/Pentagon as a spy.
- Kerb_ 3y agoMy brother was almost denied clearance because he saw a therapist when he was mentally healthy yet personally struggling just to ensure that he didn't have any metal issues
- Perenti 3y agoRemember that word "some" - it's really important. I knew someone who was floridly psychotic and would stab strangers when he smoked weed, until he got an Involuntary Treatment Order and monthly depot injections. He's still got very unusual ideas, but he's not stabbing anymore. Mental Illness is a very broad term.
- somsak2 3y ago
- shadowtree 3y ago[flagged]
- riffic 3y agothe prohibition of cannabis in the US had deeply racist origins. If this prohibition returns it will be for similarly racist purposes.
- zzo38computer 3y agoThe first part is true (as far as I know from the other comments here; I do not know the history of United States much and do not live in United States, but I will assume it is true and I will believe you), but the second part is not necessarily true (we cannot figure it out ahead of time; it is possible to be true though but also possibly not). There are other reason to be banned, e.g. to avoid second hand smoke (that is what I want to avoid, and if it can somehow be permitted in a way that restricts their use to their own personal use and not affecting the air outside for all other people/animal/trees/etc then they should do that somehow, I think). I live in Canada and the marijuana being permitted does have the problem like I mention above, like cigarette smoking also did, so it should be considered.
- smt88 3y ago> why certain substances were banned in the first place You obviously have no idea why cannabis was banned in the US. It wasn't banned because of harm to individuals or to society. It certainly can do those things, but there was no scientific basis for the original ban. It was banned because of a massive propaganda campaign by Harry Anslinger, who fabricated evidence that cannabis was a drug of immigrants, non-White Americans, and criminals. Anslinger was incredibly racist and had no respect for science or the truth. He once said, "Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men." If you think we're "rediscovering why [marijuana was] banned in the first place," you could not be more wrong.
- pfannkuchen 3y agoThis is like the people who say that auto company lobbying is the cause of poor public transportation in America. Sure, that is a cause, but there are many other causes as well, and the other causes likely dominate the named cause. Framing it as the cause seems implausible and even cartoonish to me.
- jantissler 3y agoHeadline used here on HN is editorialized and misleading.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y agoOrig headline: Cannabis Use Disorder and Subsequent Risk of Psychotic and Nonpsychotic Unipolar Depression and Bipolar Disorder Headline used here: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder Specifically, what makes the latter - an Editorialized and Misleading version of the former?
- LeoPanthera 3y agoWait until you see what alcohol does to you.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- porompompero 3y ago[flagged]
- aurareturn 3y agoJust because alcohol is bad for you, doesn't mean weed is good for you.
- marcod 3y agoYes, but how bad are those two compared to each other?
- aurareturn 3y agoI think we need to measure the negative effects of alcohol and weed at both the personal and society level. I have my thoughts. Feel free to read through my recent post history.
- someonehere 3y agoI don’t know what I read, but someone said weed before all of the legalization in the last ten years was 5% THC. The stuff being sold in dispensaries now is 80-95% THC. Weed went commercial and so did the potency. Corporate America got a hold of the industry for pure profits.
- whalesalad 3y agoSlow your roll. Anecdotal information. You can purchase concentrates which are oils or resins at high THC percentages. These are manufactured from plant material to concentrate it not unlike making orange juice concentrate. The theoretical physical limit of THC development in the plant is around 30%. You cannot find flower that will test much higher than that - if that. Yes it’s more potent than it was due to - drumroll - modern agricultural practices. This kind of misinformation parroting is really no bueno.
- bglazer 3y agoI downvoted this because you’re making a interesting claim but it’s frankly irresponsible to not even try to source it.
- totetsu 3y agothere was some discussion about this last week. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37430221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37430221
- hnisforfascists 3y ago[dead]
- pfannkuchen 3y agoThere is some discussion around cannabis bans and their causes in their thread. One aspect that isn’t discussed much but could be very relevant to differing opinions here is that different people respond incredibly differently to marijuana. Some people experience various, mostly mild, forms of cognitive impairment such as sleepiness, thinking everything is funny, and memory issues. Other people seem to enter a state of heightened idea generation, like more of their brain is working on ideation than usual, and perhaps the sort of thing a priest class would find useful (thinking back to when this plant would have been domesticated). I’m sure there are many other types of reaction as well. If someone experiences priest mode or is around those that do, they will be more positive towards it than others who only see impairment mode. It is much less homogenous in its effect on people than alcohol is.
- notamy 3y ago> One aspect that isn’t discussed much but could be very relevant to differing opinions here is that different people respond incredibly differently to marijuana. Because it’s not about (only) the THC. The other cannabinoids, the terpenes, ... all seem to modulate the effect of the high.
- systemvoltage 3y agoYou can’t excuse your way out with “it’s different for different people”. Guess what? Literally all medicines are. That’s why we use scientific analysis and statistical measures. No shit, things affect people in different ways. That’s the whole point of a large scale study like this. The entire thread is HN playing denial of the harmful effects of a thing we've advocated for years, often with no dissent.
- rvcdbn 3y agowow I’ve never heard it put like that but that’s exactly it! I definitely have the second type of reaction. It really feels like short-term hypomania (have some experience with that too).
- TheCleric 3y agoAnd for some of us it just causes horrible anxiety.
- colordrops 3y agoAlcohol definitely gives puts me into depression and bipolar moods with heavy or regular usage. Basically have to detox every time I drink now.
- m0llusk 3y agoThis is potentially interesting, but it is important to bear in mind just how tricky mental disorders are to characterize robustly. Psychiatry does not have a record of strongly reproducible results. All of these primary criteria, cannabis use disorder, bipolar disorder, and depression are frequently diagnosed differently by practiced professionals. One of the more academic investigations of addiction, the book High Price by Carl Hart, suggests that the real experience of addiction is substantially different from the way most people think of it and most addicts eventually quit on their own for a range of reasons. This suggests that the very concept of "cannabis use disorder" may not really make sense.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago> the very concept of "cannabis use disorder" may not really make sense. I've known people who used cannabis the way alcoholics use alcohol - if it wasn't a use disorder, I don't know what is. The concept is valid and can apply to sorts of things from gambling, pron, online gaming even. If the use becomes problematic then its a problem, 'use disorder' is the just the name for this.
- m0llusk 3y agoSounds reasonable, but that also seems to be within the range of you know it when you see it phenomena like porn. There is something real there, but making a science to study and control it may not be as trivial as it first seems.
- M95D 3y ago> Cannabis use disorder was associated with an increased risk of [...] They didn't prove cause and effect, only association.
- datameta 3y agoNot everything is A therefore B in our body's homeostasis. Well perhaps completely overindulging it gets to that point. But I think the idea is the effect can be there even if overused slightly.
- taskforcegemini 3y agoI can vouch for Cannabis being able to cause a heavy depressive episode lasting several days. In my "research" it starts several days after intake and also strongly hightens paranoia levels / trust in other people. There are of course many factors to consider, like medication usage. but not going into detail with that