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Meme group on Discord is focus of uproar over leaked Pentagon documents
- Apocryphon 3y agoIs Discord PR active in this thread? TFA centers on that platform, with 4chan being mentioned only a handful of times, yet this thread so far is completely focused on 4chan.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dmreedy 3y agoI think more likely there are just a lot of 4chan users on this site. And some subset of those take perceived attacks like these quite personally.
- Apocryphon 3y agoI was joking- I think it's just HN being really good at jumping down the wrong rabbit holes and bike-shedding ad nauseam, while completely missing the point of an OP.
- yodon 3y ago>Is Discord PR active in this thread? ... >I was joking This might be a good opportunity to read up again on Poe's law[0]. It pretty much always applies when one tries to make jokes like this on the web. Sarcasm and irony only work as intended when talking with people who know you personally or with people who assume they know your viewpoints. If people don't have reason to believe they know your viewpoint, they hear your sarcasm as literal (and frequently think poorly of you, as a result). [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
- plaguepilled 3y agoPoe's law is hot garbage though. If someone misses context because they're not privy to sarcasm, that isn't automatically the speaker's fault.
- kajaktum 3y agoSarcasm doesn’t work with text based medium. Is this sarcasm?
- plaguepilled 3y ago[flagged]
- account42 3y agoYou'll hear better if you move over here.
- plaguepilled 3y agoI don't see how moving to Appleland in Delltopia would affect my hearing but I'll take your word for it.
- kelipso 3y ago[flagged]
- diamondfist25 3y ago[flagged]
- mannyv 3y agoThe NYT characterizes 4chan as a far-right message board, which is ridiculous. I mean, if giving the finger to pretty much everything is considered far-right, then what's considered far-left? Fundamentalism?
- jterrys 3y agoIt's 2023. The site has been around for 19 years. If they haven't gotten it right by this point, they never will. And its "probably" that way by design.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago> then what's considered far-left 4chan. The most notorious boards feel anarchist and were very anti-globalist long before it was fashionable. But as you implied, 4chan as a whole is not homogenous.
- qtzfz 3y agoAnarchism and anti-globalism were far-left values like 20 years ago. Right now the left and far-left give strong "conform" vibes.
- brucethemoose2 3y agoI dunno about that. Radical anti capitalist sentiment, for instance, feels far left and anarchist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_anarchism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_anarchism
- Kamq 3y agoThat really depends on the reasoning behind it. The far right has a number of anti-capitalist. Usually around capitalism undermining social order and traditional bonds. If we're talking 4chan specifically still, then the idea that capitalism is a jewish plot to... something? (the what varies a lot as far as I can tell) is probably more likely.
- 3y ago
- beebmam 3y agoI think the accusation that 4chan is a far-right message board is accurate, and I believe that accusation can be supported by showing that 4chan's explicitly stated rules can be used to plausibly deny this accusation, while demonstrating that they're are not enforced (or selectively enforced). 4chan's Rule 3: "You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Troll posts, Racism, Anthropomorphic ("furry") pornography, Grotesque ("guro") images..." These rules are constantly being violated across many of the boards, and moderators rarely take action on some of the boards when posts are reported unless they explicitly violate US law. I've seen so many threads get to 400+ replies and fall off the boards, threads that blatantly violate these rules. The period of time after the 2020 election was brutal, an enormous amount of violent and racist content was not removed. Rules are often even selectively enforced, sculpting narratives that moderator cliques decide on (see /pol/ for example). At some point, it's worthwhile to ask "who benefits?" from these rules not being enforced. The kind of content that doesn't get moderated is strictly far-right stuff.
- tr1ggered 3y ago[flagged]
- andrewclunn 3y agoAnthropomorphic furry porn is right wing now? I think there are some people for whom "offensive to me," "offensive to others, and "right wing" are equivalent terms. All your post does is prove that you fall into that category. Live Leak death videos and racist jokes are no more "right wing" than pedophilia is "left wing" (which is to say that it isn't). Now some people break down racism in some weird way where bigotry towards Africans or Hispanics is "right wing" and bigotry toward Caucasians and Asians is "left wing," but those people are laughable in their tribalistic thinking and weird politicization of everything.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- flangola7 3y agoHave you even been on 4chan before? This isn't some nuanced "what actually is systemic bigotry?" question. "Ni**s and tra**s should all be burned alive and there should be bounties that pay for it" is not a subtle message. Yet it is a sentiment that is visible (and often verbatim) in every thread, and which receives supportive replies.
- notjulianjaynes 3y ago>"Losers. That’s who the U.S. government really has to fear.” The New York Times has published, by my count, 15 articles on this leak in the past 7 days.
- colpabar 3y agoCould you explain what you’re implying because I don’t get it
- bakugo 3y agoI think the implication here is that, if you write 15 articles in 1 week about people you claim are "losers", maybe you're the loser.
- notjulianjaynes 3y agoIt strikes me as somewhat petty that the Times apparently considers the information in the leak important enough to cover so thoroughly, yet they think so little of the source of that information that they'll interview a 20 year old comedy vlogger (haven't watched channel) in the UK to get some quotes painting that source as some sort of right wing extremist group. Maybe they are, but I did not see evidence of such laid out in this article. >But the unfiltered, edgy banter in the wow_mao server, which is called the End of Wow Mao Zone, and in many other servers like it, can sometimes veer into darker territory. Those servers are sometimes described as the less venomous cousins of 4chan, the far-right anonymous message board known for sharing conspiracy theories and popularizing QAnon. Many 4chan users split their time between Discord and 4chan, sharing digital memes and chatting with friends. Emphasis added.
- plaguepilled 3y ago>"Losers. That’s who the U.S. government really has to fear.” So... they fear NYT? Does this count as a publication threatening the government?
- Kenji 3y ago[dead]
- neonate 3y agohttps://archive.ph/Oia1n https://archive.ph/Oia1n http://web.archive.org/web/20230412204156/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/11/business/discord-leaked-military-documents.html http://web.archive.org/web/20230412204156/https://www.nytime...
- v0idzer0 3y agoNYT gets so much mileage out of “researchers say” and “experts say” yet they never cite anyone
- ctvo 3y ago> Dark humor about race or ideology can eventually shape the beliefs of impressionable young people, and innocuous memes can be co-opted into symbols of hatred, researchers say. Immediately following this paragraph is a quote from a researcher: > “If you’re a young man with no prospects hanging out on 4chan, you’re definitely on some Discords and probably some pretty dark Discords,” said Dale Beran, a lecturer at Morgan State University and the author of “It Came from Something Awful: How a Toxic Troll Army Accidentally Memed Donald Trump into Office.”
- mc32 3y agoHmmm this harkens back to “movies influence kids” “music influences kids”, video games influence kids” etc that many people argued in order to censor aspects of music, movies and video games.
- sbuttgereit 3y ago"Dale Beran - Lecturer/ Animation Coordinator , Screenwriting and Animation" Researcher, perhaps, but seems to not be what his credentials or college role is about. https://www.morgan.edu/screenwriting-and-animation/faculty-and-staff/dale-beran https://www.morgan.edu/screenwriting-and-animation/faculty-a...
- jjeaff 3y agoWhether it's valid or not, authoring a book on a particular subject usually qualifies someone as an expert on a subject. Especially if it is on an esoteric and modern subject like online socializing.
- latency-guy2 3y agoI know of someone who published a book on Golang in 2010. The rating of that book is sitting in the 3s out of 5 stars last I checked 6 years ago. Is he an expert at Go? Not in my most humblest opinion, is the content of the book good? Also a no in my honest, must charitable view. How far did he get with showing people how to program with Go? About as far as you'd get in 2 hours on the golang docs even considering a very poorly skilled college student doing the exercises. There's maybe 170 pages in the book. I'm almost certain the book has not reached even 200 sales at the highest. Is he really considered an expert to you, solely because of the publishing of a book? Here it is by the way: https://www.amazon.com/Go-Programming-John-P-Baugh/dp/1453636676 https://www.amazon.com/Go-Programming-John-P-Baugh/dp/145363... I know that's not necessarily your view, but this is the standard we are working with
- guardiangod 3y agoI am sad that Discord has replaced IRC as the chatroom of the internet's subculture.
- Minor49er 3y agoIRC lacks widespread support for things like roles, reactions, avatars, threads, showing chat history from before someone enters a channel, search history, and having video and voice chat without piggybacking on top of DCC. There also aren't sync issues within Discord that cause things like netsplits which are somewhat common on IRC I know some newer versions of the IRC spec try to address at least some of these, but as far as I'm aware, they aren't very widely supported
- dewey 3y agoIRC is also just not ready for a multiple device lifestyle. People expect to log in and have the same stats across devices, that’s very hard to do with IRC.
- bastawhiz 3y agoTechnology improved, people got Features and Devices, they wanted to use their Features and Devices, and they switched to the service that gave them their Features on their Devices. There's no mystery. The average person doesn't care about federation or an open protocol or whatever. They probably don't even understand those things and they don't want to understand them. They just want to chat with their friends and send emojis and not get upset that things don't work. IRC, by all accounts, fails to do—out of the box—all of those things (well).
- alwayslikethis 3y agoMe too. Judging by Discord's tendencies toward speech policing and censorship there will be plenty of groups staying out of it though. A large part of the previous subculture will probably be banned promptly on Discord.
- antibasilisk 3y ago
- sega_sai 3y agoThere is a very good Lawfare podcast with the Bellingcat investigator on that https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-rid-and-toler-latest-megaleak https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-rid-and-toler-la... which goes into more details on this.
- baryphonic 3y agoNotwithstanding the New York Times calling 4chan far-right and blatantly editorializing (seriously, if this is a news piece, why is there commentary about Discord's moderation policy?), I am most interested in whether the leaks are true. Has the White House been grossly over-representing Ukraine's chances? Will Ukraine be unable to protect their airspace after late May?
- thinkingemote 3y agoLeaks are different from hacks in that they are released secretly Vs stolen. Usually a leak has a purpose. Often it's political, and political messaging particularly about war is propaganda.
- harry8 3y agoThe only difference between a leak and hack is whether there was one person trusted with the information knowingly involved in the transfer chain to publication or not. We don't have different words as to motives of those doing the leaking. A leak can be to support the status quo or hostile to it or anything else besides.
- TeeMassive 3y agoDuring the invasion Crimea Obama refused to send military support because it would just help create a long war of attrition, which Russia has more than enough the ressource to sustain, with the same outcome.
- uni_rule 3y agoWell 4chan sure as hell isn't full of Marxist college students quoting theory at each other nor is it milquetoast CNN-style liberals. It is predominantly right wing (in an edgy 7th grader sort of way) to the point of needing kill files to be legible like the old days of Usenet. At the very least it's not more anarchist leaning like it was 15 years ago.
- perryizgr8 3y agoWow that was content free. What is the actual info that was leaked?
- TrapLord_Rhodo 3y agoHow can you even tell what actual info was leaked? How can you tell if the info leaked in real? We have entered into a era where the difference between real and fake is almost impossible to distinguish. Deep fakes and LLM's are going to change propoganda forever.
- pragmar 3y agoThe notable bit was the killed in action numbers from the conflict: 17k Russian troops, and 70k on the Ukrainian side. Estimates from US and European leaders have been all over the map, some in this neighborhood, but others saying more Russians were KIA than were Ukrainians.
- ranger207 3y agoThose numbers are edited. Someone basically flipped the order of the digits, eg from 17k to 71k Ukrainian KiA. This is easily confirmed by the Russian aircraft losses; Oryx has many more visually confirmed losses than the edited number claims, and by its very nature Oryx's list is an underestimate. https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1644139100407054336?cxt=HHwWgIC-kaDzk9EtAAAA https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1644139100407054336?cxt...
- pragmar 3y agoThanks for the link, had not realized there was more than one version out there. My numbers definitely appear to be tampered with (judging from the alignment).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TrapLord_Rhodo 3y agoIn an article about leaked documents, they sure don't talk alot about the documents that were leaked... Is it some kind of psych-op, LLM going on in the comments? No one's interested or curious about the documents and are spamming the page with 4chan shit?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]