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Repairing your smartphone or installing a ROM will now be a crime in Mexico
- aurizon 6y agoSlim hates true competition, or even any competition
- barney54 6y agoIt appears this is a result of the harmonization of laws between Mexico, Canada, and the US.
- gruez 6y agoRepairing phones and installing custom ROMs are illegal in us/canada?
- blendergeek 6y agoUnder section 1201 of the Digital Millenium Copyright, it would be illegal to install a custom ROM or repair your phone without permission from the manufacturer. However, the Copyright office get to make official exceptions to the law and they made an exception for jailbreaking a phone. I'm not sure about repairing or installing custom ROMs. Those might fall into different categories.
- inetsee 6y agoWouldn't the recent "Right to Repair" push in the US counter any efforts to prohibit repairs by independent repair businesses?
- xtracto 6y agoThat's right, this was an "ask" from the USA in order to implement the T-MEC (USMCA in English). Given the current US political climate, Mexico got the short stick in this new "deal": Tax was increased (from 16% to 17%, 18% and even 19%), Mexico has to implement these laws and we keep being the "cheap maquila labour" that guarantee the country won't develop in the short/mid term.
- jtvjan 6y agoThe exceptions list mentions: > When the purpose is to test, investigate, or correct the security of a computer, system, or computer network. > When a person wants their device to stop collecting personal information. Aren't those the reasons most people install custom ROMs? For getting security updates past the life of the smartphone, and to stop Google tracking you.
- yummypaint 6y agoI think it's more about boiling the frog. Temper the initial outrage with exceptions, let people get used to the idea that repairs are wrong but it's sometime ok, then remove exceptions later. It's the same long game the inkjet printer people have been unfortunately winning for a while now.
- tomcooks 6y agoExactly, it all starts with exceptions until it's time for "think about the children", "nothing to hide, right?" and it's easygame towards "safety of our people"
- as1mov 6y agoWhen it comes to phones, the excuse is "security" of the phone, locking down the device as much as possible. And it's sad how that sentiment is echoed even on forums like HN. Apple as already a closed walled garden, Android is quickly moving that way with each release.
- Fiveplus 6y agoNot that I view this comment with a cynical eye, rather with an inquisitive perspective, I would love to read more examples which started with an exception cause and ended up with a blanket rule enforcement.
- dane-pgp 6y agoI think the general pattern here is "mission creep"[0] of which [1] is a classic example. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/11/anti-terror_law.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/11/anti-terror_l...
- throwawayway9 6y agoI've heard a lot about this bill now but nothing conclusive as I assume the sources I've been reading do not speak fluent Spanish. I think I will analyze it myself in some time after the hype has died down.
- Mikeakogu 6y agoThis is interesting. Making life harder for the common man.
- prox 6y agoWhat if you build your own phone with a Pi, or similar?
- unnouinceput 6y agoThen you become the new Apple and rule the world. And you'll see all these politicians licking your shoes.
- prox 6y agoIf it was that easy!
- aruggirello 6y agoYou write a blog about it, and get hired in the US... problem solved ;)
- Fiveplus 6y agoThen you're halfway through to getting VCs to fund your company.
- izacus 6y agoI'm sure you're breaking at least some of patents or use some intellectual property of the US corporations and their lawyers will make short work of you.
- samus 6y agoSomething like this? https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/piphone-home-made-raspberry-pi-smartphone/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/piphone-home-made-raspberry... Edit: Access to mobile networks is a deep rabbit hole and you might immeditately run into issues regarding patented algorithms. But you can integrate an off-the-shelf module and keep it at arms length to your system. If you're fine being stuck on 3G. The bigger issues are you will have similar issues with the hardware. Unless RISC-V takes off and yields some affordable, auditable hardware, the ROM concerns still apply.
- anonms-coward 6y agoIt seems stallman had the foresight to predict things like this in 1997. I think the days where one needs to be licensed to use a debugger might not be far away.
- fierarul 6y agoI think macOS already blocks the debugger. You couldn't debug iTunes last I checked.
- anonms-coward 6y agoYou can't debug anything via lldb/gdb without having an administrator password AFAIK. You can debug non native programs using for example pdb and other language specific debuggers, but I find it hard to make that more inconvenient anytime soon.
- gspr 6y ago> I think the days where one needs to be licensed to use a debugger might not be far away. GNU/Linux and the BSDs have never before looked so essential to the survival of computing as we know it.
- marto1 6y agoYet, one of the main companies behind Linux is Microsoft and one of the main companies behind BSD is Apple. It's really hard not to have a negative outlook on both.
- anonms-coward 6y agoApple is not behind BSD at all, using Darwin is not being behind BSD. Any of the the popular BSD distributions is not backed by Apple. Not to mention Microsoft needs linux, not the other way around. Microsoft is desperate to get linux developers on windows, using WSL. They had to rename Windows Azure to Microsoft Azure. Linux would not be affected at all if Microsoft stops contributing. Azure will be if it stops offering Linux VMs.
- amelius 6y agoHow about creating a "derivative work"?
- class4behavior 6y agoThis is an unfortunate win against the right to repair, which is a concerning issue everywhere around the world. Just recently, in Norway its last court instance found a repair shop in breach of Apple's trademark as they used imported third-party displays. This stifles competition as corporations are in control for how long hardware or software remain usable and who can provide alternative solutions. In the US this topic flared up again once the farmers felt the consequences of this. Now their modern vehicles and tools either have to be replaced a lot more often or they can't choose where to seek replacements.
- jacquesm 6y agoThat Norwegian decision is a travesty as presented here, how can a repair infringe on a trademark and how on Earth did that not lead to an appeal. Using aftermarket parts is a well established practice in automotive, I see absolutely no reason why that would not extend to phones. Are they going to demand cars are only repaired with OEM parts as well?
- class4behavior 6y ago>The Norwegian judges made the final decision purely assessing trademark violations on these screens, based on obscure and technical details that are entirely invisible to consumers (...) while Huseby still maintains they were refurbished. (...) >As Huseby puts it, Apple uses intellectual property law as a “weapon” by putting multiple logos and QR-codes on each component part of its screens, knowing that the Chinese grey market will not specifically cater to repairers in other countries that zealously enforce intellectual property. This creates a kind of “roulette” for repairers who want to import affordable, refurbished parts from China. Apple can then ask customs authorities in these countries to seize refurbished parts shipments. https://repair.eu/news/apple-crushes-one-man-repair-shop/ https://repair.eu/news/apple-crushes-one-man-repair-shop/
- jacquesm 6y agoDisgusting.
- kristianpaul 6y agoThis may be also interesting to open the market for linux based phones like pinephone where DRM isn't there to enforce this law perhaps?
- jobigoud 6y agoIs it really "your" smartphone if you are not allowed to modify it?
- HeckFeck 6y agoIf the telcos had their way, once your contract ended the phone would vaporise before your eyes.
- aesthesia 6y agoIf that's the case, why don't they already do this? It's totally feasible to design a phone that will brick itself when your contract ends. There's no legal impediment to doing it either.
- noisy_boy 6y agoBecause nobody would buy such a phone. They might wish but can't.
- HeckFeck 6y agoDon't give them the idea. I can imagine the reasoning: "We've had disposable cameras that were never truly the customer's property, may as well extend it to phones." It could be argued that Apple were already doing this. Remember their updates that knowingly slowed down older phones? They claimed it was for performance reasons, but nowhere informed the user of this practice... Src: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171222/15380038868/apple-facing-bunch-lawsuits-after-admitting-it-slows-down-older-devices-insisting-good-reason.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171222/15380038868/apple...
- gchamonlive 6y agoWe need FOSS phones and a big enough company to implement the project and mass produce it to lower costs.
- HeckFeck 6y agoI'm optimistic with Pine64's PinePhone. It's bolstered numerous Free Software projects who aim to produce mobile phone OSes, like UBPorts and PostmarketOS. Hopefully the project proves that a workable and open smartphone can succeed. Also, even if it isn't a big success, the devs of those OS projects will have experience building a Linux environment for a smartphone. There'll be more documented knowledge of how to implement SMS, calling, powersaving, telephoning and the rest. So even if it sinks, we still stand to gain.
- wizzwizz4 6y agoLibrem, Pine64, Fairphone.
- ex_amazon_sde 6y agoHow does this interacts with FLOSS software used on the phone? This is an example of "tivoization" and should be prevented by GPLv3
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoDo any phones use GPLv3 code? Closest that I know of is Linux under v2, but Android generally is permissively licensed.
- zifnab06 6y agoThe large majority of Android is Apache 2, rich requires attribution but no release of source code.
- ex_amazon_sde 6y agoThere's a good amount of software under GPLv3 on f-droid.
- quantum_state 6y agoWe need to take back the rights
- gnu8 6y agoI am unclear on what is meant by ROM. Don't most smartphones store their operating system on the same flash memory as user data? If it is all on one writable device, then ROM chips don't enter into this discussion.
- delecti 6y agoROM refers to third party distributions of OSs for phones. I can't find anything documenting the etymology, but I assume it's derived from rips of games used in emulation, which are in fact downloaded from "read-only memory".
- compressedgas 6y agoThe device contains memory that is only writable during ROM image flashing. The rest of the time this storage is not writable. So it is effectively ROM even if it isn't implemented by actual read only memory.
- anthk 6y agoThis wont last. Once you buy hardware, it's yours.
- corty 6y agoThis will last. Similar legislation like the DMCA has lasted for 20 years now.
- cs702 6y agoSometimes it feels as if politicians and lawmakers are drawing inspiration from the direst scenarios envisioned in the science fiction literature. Do they really not understand the long-term consequences of preventing the kind of tinkering, exploration, repurposing, interconnecting, i.e., hacking, that leads to innovation? Do they really not understand the long-term consequences of preventing new kinds of competition from "garage upstarts" that find new, better, cheaper ways of doing thins? Do they really think this is beneficial for everyone in the long run?
- nurettin 6y agoPeople are tinkering with phones in order to circumvent law and make quick, short term profit at the cost of tax paying citizens. None of the noble reasons you'd think of apply.
- imtringued 6y agoYou're overgeneralizing. A company has a limited amount of employees that are working full time. Meanwhile the millions of people who install ROMs may spend a week tinkering and then it's over for them. The chance that a few thousand of them become interested in making their own ROMs (and therefore become software engineers) will become zero thanks to this law.
- nurettin 6y agoGovernments should not enforce international trade agreements on the off-chance that someone somewhere might have an epiphany while installing illegal software? No.
- samus 6y agoThe term "illegal" deserves some definition. Arguing that something is forbidden because it is illegal is circular reasoning.
- 6y ago
- FpUser 6y ago>Do they really think this is beneficial for everyone in the long run Do you really think that politicians are concerned about "everyone's benefits"? I think they do not give a flying f..k about it. They're being lobbied by big corps and then after their terms they get cushy jobs in the same corps. Joe/Jane Does are only remembered at the time of the vote.
- jostmey 6y agoNo one will follow that law. Passing laws that no one will follow and that are against the common good just undermines the authority of government and the letter of the law
- deelly 6y agoHeh, say that to Russia..
- lumberingjack 6y agoHow are they going to enforce that? Halt aufhören und aufhören show me your phone show me your stock ROM
- samus 6y agoIt's one more way to charge people who are suspected of something. Sometimes law enforcement actually has a difficult time coming up with a charge that sticks. If the phone does not respond to a backdoor that law makers require vendors to deploy, they would have a convenient case.
- burundi_coffee 6y agoReparieren das ist schlecht, Neues kaufen, das ist recht! (Repairing is bad, buying new is good, from Qualityland by Marc-Uwe Kling)