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Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison
- sys_64738 7y agoHow does he slop out if he's under sedation?
- sixQuarks 7y agoI'm surprised Julian Assange doesn’t have a kill switch in place, where sensitive info which has been held up to this point will be released upon his death or conviction. At least none that we know of.
- grenoire 7y agoA kill switch is different than a dead man's switch; the former is a switch to stop the entirety of a process, and the latter is one that is activated when the human operator is incapacitated.
- vntok 7y agoWhat makes you believe he has that kind of interesting sensitive information in the first place?
- threeseed 7y agoBecause reports have him receiving information either directly or indirectly from the Russian government. And they have access to all sorts of sensitive information. John Podesta and Hillary Clinton's emails allegedly found its way to Wikileaks through this path.
- sixQuarks 7y agoFrom what I've researched, the Hillary emails were most likely from an internal source.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- droithomme 7y agoCorrect. Former Ambassador Craig Murray has stated that a disgruntled DNC employee, unhappy with the treatment of Sanders, personally gave him the emails in Washington and he couriered the emails to his friend Assange who then published them. And as has been pointed out the Podesta emails were taken through a phishing email which was sent to thousands of people (so it wasn't spear phishing) and which he foolishly fell for.
- threeseed 7y agoCraig Murray's statements are highly disputed and some of them are just plain ridiculous e.g. you can't transfer data to Russian servers at > 6MB/s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray
- mycall 7y agoThere are many VPNs in Russia that support 1000mbps
- LyndsySimon 7y agoIf this were true, my World of Tanks client would take much longer to update.
- droithomme 7y agoMurray was citing the findings of a forensics team comprised of veteran members of the intelligence community. There's two aspects to the time stamps. One is that based on the time stamps, the emails were all copied on Nov 7 2016 at rates of up to 49.1 megabytes per second.* This is fairly high for internet transfers. The other aspect is that the last modified timestamps of all emails and attachments were quantized to a 2 second granularity. This means this was not a hacked internet server to server transfer but was a copy to an intermediary drive that was formatted with the old FAT format. The forensics show it wasn't a hack. No one competent in security or forensics would honestly come to that conclusion based on what is known. When coupled with Murray's testimony that he personally couriered the emails from a park near American University in DC back to Assange himself, it's curious Murray has not been subpoenaed to name the leaker, also it's curious the FBI had no interest in inspecting the DNC servers or drives. * The wikipedia article deceptively misrepresents this as 49.1 megabits per second. Both its own sources explicitly say megabytes, and this is confirmable by examining the original data, which anyone competent can easily do themselves if they have doubts.
- jessaustin 7y agoPodesta emails were phished. This doesn't require APT of any sort.
- chmod775 7y agoI'll read that as "[I'd be] surprised if Julian Assange doesn't have a [dead man's switch] in place". And indeed he does. Some time ago Wikileaks/Assange distributed an encrypted insurance file. The torrent is about 90GB: https://file.wikileaks.org/torrent/2016-06-03_insurance.aes256.torrent https://file.wikileaks.org/torrent/2016-06-03_insurance.aes2... There was actually multiple versions fo this file, each larger than the previous one. This is the most recent version afaik. It's likely this particular dead man's switch is actually trusted people though.
- jacobush 7y agoI wonder if this could backfire. With the "normal" or old guard politicians, this could have been a credible threat. Nobody wanted a scandal. With the new breed, scandals are just life.
- m-p-3 7y agoEven worse, they thrive on scandals.
- sixQuarks 7y agough, I think you're right. It's kind of become like "no publicity is bad publicity"
- jp555 7y agoChaos is a ladder, unless you're a theorist. To theorists chaos is destruction (of their precious models). To practitioners chaos is a ladder. Those with real Skin In the Game. Economist vs. Trader.
- jacobush 7y agoPrecious models like “standards” and “semblance of moral code”. :-:
- rapsey 7y agoYeah but that could also just as well be random data.
- willvarfar 7y agoHe has claimed he does. Fairly recent article with background https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/julian-assange-dead-mans-switch-wikileaks-insurance-files/ https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/julian-assange-dead-mans-swit...
- exikyut 7y agoThe problem is, the chaos and shockwave caused by such an event would a) only induce further chaos as a response, and b) likely be interpreted as an attack. Considering the fairness and justice of current proceedings, the response would not only likely be ugly, it would set a precedent difficult to answer. Many possibilities there. While I don't know, I would be very surprised if Wikileaks itself wasn't sitting on more than enough information to create such a dent. It seems things are effectively at a cross between stalemate and a Mexican standoff. Poor health is better than death, I guess? It's very sad. If I was told all the details about the sequence of events, but not told which countries were behind the subsequent response, treatment and current conditions, I would not correctly guess on the first try, and probably not the second, or the third...
- exikyut 7y agoOoh. This is at -4 at the moment. Very fascinating.
- ChrisSD 7y ago> By what authority, or on what pretext, Assange is being tranquilised, and kept isolated, remains unknown I'm going to go out on a limb and say "ill health".
- jellicle 7y agoWhich health conditions are improved by solitary confinement?
- actsof 7y agoNot that it improves the condition, but psychosis leading to violent outbursts could be used to justify it. Anti-psychotics are also usually sedative in nature, which would explain the rest.
- banads 7y agoThat same justification was used against political dissidents in the Soviet Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatr...
- jessaustin 7y agoSure, but Russians are bad [0]. Western governments are good. So it's totally different! [0] So we're told by noted perjurer (it's OK because he's good) DNI James Clapper!
- ChrisSD 7y agoHe was moved to a medical ward. He's not in solitary confinement. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/30/jasa-m30.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/30/jasa-m30.html
- Angostura 7y agoAre there any other sources on this?
- sp332 7y agoNot sure which facts you're looking to have corroborated, but does this help? https://rsf.org/en/news/two-months-assanges-extradition-hearing-rsf-calls-his-release-humanitarian-grounds-and-us-espionage https://rsf.org/en/news/two-months-assanges-extradition-hear...
- Jon_Lowtek 7y agoThe "news" part is that he had a phone call with a friend. Primary source is the friend (Vaughan Smith). It's on his Twitter: https://twitter.com/VaughanSmith/status/1210278654615474176 https://twitter.com/VaughanSmith/status/1210278654615474176 For the torture part, which is not news, please see The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture: https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=25249 https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N... Primary Source for the cited open letter https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doctors-about-the-plight-of-mr-julian-assange-ffb09a5dd588 https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doct...
- JoeSmithson 7y agoThere doesn't appear to be any reliable evidence that Assange is being held in solitary confinement. The original source for this seems to be his father, who claimed several months ago that he was being held in solitary for "up to" 23 hours a day. There have been photos leaked by another person showing Assange looking relaxed interacting with other inmates. The leaker claimed that Assange was popular among the other prisoners. In fact, Nils Melzer himself has confirmed Assange is not in solitary, but is apparently being "tortured" for other reasons. It is not clear why these reasons don't apply to every other prisoner on remand in Belmarsh.
- Jon_Lowtek 7y agoI do not want to argue with you if the opinion of the leading UN expert in this matter is based on enough hard evidence. The important thing is: The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture (and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) visited Mr. Assange with a medical team and then wrote an appeal to the UK Government. The UK government should react with a prompt and impartial investigation. They did not do that. The did not even answer the question of the United Nations Special Rapporteur. That by itself, no matter if Mr. Assange was subjected to torture, is non compliance with international rules. Given Brexit this level of "we do not care about international rules and we do not accept the UN as an authority" is unsurprising. IMHO a western nation like the UK ignoring a member of the OHCHR is very worrisome. It shows that the UK government has little interest to participate in the trend towards "good governance".
- moksly 7y agoWhy is the WikiLeaks foundation responsible for the content posted on their platform, when Google and Facebook aren’t? I haven’t really been following this a whole lot, but as I understand it, the US wants him extradited because his platform was used to leak sensible information that put American soldiers in danger. But why is that a thing when it isn’t for other platforms? I mean, twitter, Facebook and YouTube have all been used as effective recruitment platforms for various Islamic terror organisations. That would have put American lives in danger as well.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- threeseed 7y agoIt is alleged that Assange coordinated with Chelsea Manning and the Russian government to obtain information for Wikileaks. This would make him an active conspirator in breaking the law. Completely different from Facebook, Google, Twitter etc where they merely provide a platform for others to upload content and aren't actively involved in sourcing illegal content.
- plutonorm 7y agoAuthoritarians emphasise the fact he broke laws, everyone else appreciates the moral act.
- dmurray 7y agoIt's much more tribal than that. For example, Russian authoritarians are pretty happy with him.
- jessaustin 7y ago"Russian authoritarians" are happy both that he exists and that Western authoritarians are torturing him to death.
- scient 7y ago
- flurdy 7y agoI thought he would be released from remand when the Swedish charges were dropped. And then expected the UK gov to keep him at a psychiatric ward as he seems a little unstable which they could embellish. Did not expect him to still be in Belmarsh.
- jpz 7y agoHe is in jail for the offence of jumping bail. That Sweden dropped the charges doesn’t dismiss that offence. The UK spent 10s of millions on policing costs monitoring abscondment. It is entirely right that he is serving a sentence as for reasons of deterrence.
- sp332 7y agoHe is not currently serving the sentence for jumping bail. Right now he is just being held waiting for a hearing.
- rbobby 7y agoAssange doesn't qualify for bail (he is a flight risk/certainty) so he stays in custody until the hearings are done. Made his bed and now has to lie in it.
- yk 7y agoHaving him 23 h a day in solitary confinement and not allowing him to call his mom seems a bit harsh, if they are concerned that he's a flight risk.
- rbobby 7y agoI would think he's in protective custody because he would be in extreme danger in general population. He's a celebrity and would likely be viewed as rapist and traitor (the facts don't matter, what matters is what the other criminals would think). A good question is whether he needs to be held in a maximum security facility. He's a bail flight risk, but is he an escape risk? I would think he's at most a moderate escape risk (has some capabilities and has shown his contempt for the legal system previously) and would be fine in something less than maximum security (so long as protective custody could be maintained). I do know Assange has a competent legal team that would fight his being held in maximum security if Assange wanted them too. I wonder why he hasn't instructed them to do so.
- kome 7y agouk, usa and aus are basically killing this man, with no fair trial.
- somebadguy 7y agoGood. The sooner he dies the better.
- jpz 7y agoHe had a fair trial for the crime of jumping bail, and has been jailed for it.
- sp332 7y agoOk but he was not sentenced to this.
- rbobby 7y agoAssange doesn't qualify for bail (he is a flight risk/certainty) so he stays in custody until the hearings are done. Made his bed and now has to lie in it.
- Synaesthesia 7y agoHe reported the truth. It’s an extraordinary trial this.
- rbobby 7y ago> He reported the truth. It’s an extraordinary trial this. It's extradition hearings not a trail. Extraditions are pretty common, the statistics I found seem to indicate roughly 1,000 requests per year with about 50% being successful (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117673/extradition-review.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...)
- einpoklum 7y ago
- jpz 7y agoWe are all slowly dying. He’s not alone.
- JaimeThompson 7y agoWhat ever happened to all that banking information that Wikileaks said they would release? "Wikileaks honcho Julian Assange told Andy Greenberg at Forbes that he was in possession of a trove of documents that "could take down a bank or two." The documents wouldn't necessarily show illegality but they would reveal an "ecosystem of corruption" at one of the biggest banks in the United States. Wikileaks would release it "early next year." " https://www.cnbc.com/id/42762811 https://www.cnbc.com/id/42762811
- 542458 7y agoThere are a bunch of documents that wikileaks has, at various times, claimed they’d release then have never mentioned again. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Claims_of_upcoming_leaks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Claims_of_upcoming... TBH, this bit in particular of wikileaks has always felt really scummy/sketchy to me. If you have the docs and have verified them and believe they are journalistically important then release them without delay. In every other scenario, why are you talking about them publicly?
- einpoklum 7y agoThere are legitimate reasons for delayed releases, like fact-checking and cross-referencing, leaker security, Wikileaks operatives' own security, coordinations with establishment press channels and possibly others. Still, it's certainly better to limit such claims and it does feel a bit sketchy when they don't eventually publish something.
- 542458 7y agoI'm not saying they shouldn't fact check - rather, if they aren't sure about a leak, it's irresponsible of them to talk about it before they're sure! Same goes for security - if delaying a leak helps security, surely it helps even more if you don't speak about it at all until ready to release. Furthermore, announcing leaks gives the orgs being leaked on time to get their story straight and destroy evidence, so I'm really skeptical that announcing leaks like that is the responsible course of action.
- waltwalther 7y ago...and then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
- Synaesthesia 7y agoWikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despite the fact that he was under 24/7 surveillance! And these rape charges, clearly also designed to tarnish his name, now finally exposed as a fiasco. Many newspapers had huge scoops thanks to Wikileaks, but have now turned on them. A particularly striking example is the supposedly liberal Guardian. Journalists everywhere should be afraid as this sets a dangerous precedent for all of them.
- tptacek 7y agoWikileaks does not have a faultless record. For example: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/why-did-wikileaks-help-dox-most-of-turkeys-adult-female-population.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/why-did-wikileaks-hel...
- malvosenior 7y agoThat's an example of "like him or not", it's not a retraction and nothing published was false.
- geofft 7y agoThat's a very strange definition of "faultless record." Shall we elevate the Ashley Madison password leakers to the same level of folk hero? What about a VPN that spies on its users - they never publish anything false, so any persecution is unfair, right?
- malvosenior 7y agoWe're talking about two different things. The grandparent said that Assange hasn't had to make any retractions and hasn't published any false info. This is undeniably true. They also said "like him or not". Not everyone likes the outcome of his leaks. Many do. Many like some, but not others. Regardless, he's had a major impact on politics based on very true information Wikileaks has made available to the public. If the Ashley Madison password leakers were helping expose corruption in the government, I'm sure some would view them as folk heroes too.
- cardamomo 7y ago*her
- boomboomsubban 7y agoYes, I apologize for the slip.
- sokoloff 7y agoGenuine question: what is the most correct protocol on name and pronoun usage to describe past events, when the author wants to keep the focus on the fact of the accomplishment rather than the personal life of the actor? Is it: 1. Bruce Jenner won his gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics. 2. Bruce Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics. 3. Caitlyn Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics.
- MiroF 7y agoGood question - I was going to correct someone earlier in the thread and I then realized I didn't know the answer to that one myself I would say there's certainly no harm in using the current pronouns
- EthanHeilman 7y agoI believe the most respectful usage would be: "Caitlyn Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics." That is both the current name and pronouns are used to refer to past events. Side note: someone who goes by she/her pronouns could enter the Men's Decathlon as they don't use pronouns to determine eligibility.
- sysbin 7y agoThe most respectful is #3 and my view is from being transgender myself with knowledge of what others similar like me would desire as respect. Similar problems happen when a transgender person is murdered and the authority finds it by arguable belief that it’s necessary to report the birth sex for trying to catch the murder. One of the reasons I hope assisted suicide becomes legal for anyone.
- e2le 7y agoDidn't Assange befriend Tommy Robinson while in Belmarsh? I'm not too sure about his credibility and morals anymore.
- corporate_shi11 7y agoI was part of a news and current events Facebook group a few years ago, when WikiLeaks was primarily known for leaking evidence of the US Military's abuses in the middle East. Most of the people in this group were Democrats or otherwise on the Left. They cheered WikiLeaks and loved that it was exposing the abuses of a group they didn't like. Fast forward to 2016, and WikiLeaks begins publishing damaging information related to Hillary Clinton's campaign. The same people who cheered WikiLeaks as it published very damaging information about the US Military now condemned it because it was targeting someone they actually supported. This was a major moment of clarity and realization for me. It showed me that those who are quick to use ideals to defend their positions ("freedom of information is good, it exposes the US' crimes!") will just as quickly discard those ideals when they stop working in their own interest ("WikiLeaks should not be publishing damaging information about Clinton!"). I was disgusted, because these people were so quick to use a moralistic position built upon high ideals to attack the US but they were themselves absolutely bereft of a true commitment to ideals. Within a few weeks the group's attitude on WikiLeaks shifted from gratitude and respect to hatred. When I pointed this out, I was kicked out of the group.
- spaced-out 7y agoThe reason many people turned on Wikileaks was because he clearly sided with Trump in 2016. He released the info he had on Hillary to damage her campaign, even though it didn't show anything illegal, yet he refused to publish the documents he had on Trump. People sided with him because they believed he was impartial, and turned away from him when it was clear he wasn't.
- corporate_shi11 7y agoExcept he was clearly "siding" against the US military throughout his early history. He was never impartial (whatever that means), people just happened to like the side he appeared to be on.
- malvosenior 7y ago> People sided with him because they believed he was impartial, and turned away from him when it was clear he wasn't. He literally provided evidence of mainstream media being highly impartial in favor of Clinton (against Sanders and Trump). If people cared about impartiality, they’d be on Wikileaks side here.
- Y-Bopinator 7y agoDon’t do the crime if you can’t do the time
- SherlockeHolmes 7y agoThe discussion here is a reminder of how sufficiently competent people can defend to death a narrative that is logically consistent enough and has some form of "majority acknowledgment" for the sources of that narrative. I want to remind us that rarely do enough credible (according to some formal and stringent definition) evidences exist for a given topic for an observer to make a conclusion with the kind of confidence we often display while remonstrating on these issues. Specifically: it is naive to adopt a conclusive tone involving a person without liberty for over a decade, and possibly undergoing forms of punishment without due trial. I suspect not one of us here is trained enough in Law and have access to enough TRUE information to come to a judgment. If so, we are guilty of engaging in and spreading careless commentaries made about a case that combines possible human rights violation (its abundance in current time does not make this any less serious of a concern) with possible government interference in defining what constitutes journalism. I want to leave you with this last thought - in majority cases in history, it has been profitable for the public to challenge the government on its policies, rather than to trust in its foresightedness and integrity.
- aldoushuxley001 7y agoI forgot that HN is a place of massive censorship, so unfortunate that people have gamed HN to censor views they don't like. I don't blame dang or anyone like that, it's just the way HN works and has been gamed, but it really shows the limits of reasonable discourse on this platform.
- iblamedang 7y agoId find it easier not to blame dang if he wasn’t largely at fault. “I’m only doing my job” and “defending the ethos of HN” don’t work for me. I don’t buy it. Peter Thiel’s involvement ended any doubt for me. The arcane word games and hoops you had to concoct to say the above without having your comment removed would be hilarious if they weren’t so necessary :/
- dang 7y agoPeter Thiel has zero involvement with HN. What a strange thing to say.
- AtlasBarfed 7y agoDue process will strangely, coincidentally, be EXTREMELY SLOW. ... kind of like Guantanamo.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Due process will strangely, coincidentally, be EXTREMELY SLOW. Assange and his attorneys have, from day one, done everything possible to extend the process; there is nothing coincidental about the result. > ... kind of like Guantanamo. Guantanamo is a whole different problem, where people have actually received all the process there is, been determined to be innocent or not even subject to a y charges, and are still detained.
- Traster 7y agoWell, yes, if you flee to an embassy during your very long appeal process against extradition, then that will tend to slow things down.
- dependenttypes 7y agoI find it kind of weird how most of the discussion is about whether assange was good/bad/a "russian spy" etc - all of these have been discussed to death already. Shouldn't we be more concerned about the inhumane treatment of assange in jail regardless if you agree or disagree with what he published? My 2c
- Traster 7y agoProbably because Belmarsh is a pretty average British prison, it's slightly better than US prisons, slightly worse than some European prisons. Claims of being sedated come 3rd hand from an unreliable source - and are clearly untrue.
- dennisgorelik 7y agoBelmarsh prison drone view: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4961652,0.0932264,3a,75y,240.71h,69.99t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMN0Q29E1fDt9yWGufw2PiMvfIQQfCiMzmNkWY5!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMN0Q29E1fDt9yWGufw2PiMvfIQQfCiMzmNkWY5%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya4.9682255-ro0-fo100!7i14000!8i7000 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4961652,0.0932264,3a,75y,240...
- PappaPatat 7y ago"Everybody has got a plan, until they're punched in the face." - Mike Tyson The horrors of physical violence are not often understood by keyboard heros who feel superior within their bubble of close nit computer expert friends. But as soon as things become bloody, the skillset requirements drastically change. This happens to blackmarket vendors too. They get lured into some AFK situation and quickly become victims of much less smart, yet truly hardened criminals. Good luck hacking your way out of that. Julian will (most likely, I have 0 contact with him) be in a most awful place with the whole "legally" allowed shit storm hitting him where it hurts. Not a place where smart skinny people flourish.