8 ms·

Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

95 points by Pharmakon 7y ago

nrjames 7y ago
Here's the actual Tesla announcement: https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup "Given the popularity of the Standard Plus relative to the Standard, we have made the decision to simplify our production operations to better optimize cost, minimize complexity and streamline operations. As a result, Model 3 Standard will now be a software-limited version of the Standard Plus, and we are taking it off the online ordering menu, which just means that to get it, customers will need to call us or visit any one of the several hundred Tesla stores. Deliveries of Model 3 Standard will begin this weekend."
- dv_dt 7y ago
  The next paragraph is interesting too: "Its range will be limited by 10%, and several features will be disabled via software (including our onboard music streaming service, navigation with live traffic visualization, and heated seats). Similar to other software-limited vehicles produced in the past, Standard customers will have the option to upgrade to a Standard Plus at any time. Similarly, anyone who has already bought Standard Plus and wants to convert to Standard is welcome to do so, and we will provide a refund for the difference in cost." It's pretty confident to offer both upgrade and downgrade options between the two.
  - rplnt 7y ago
    The downgrade offer is only for those who had already ordered. Not that you can downgrade at any time. It makes sense to offer this as your choice might have been influenced by the "permanency" of the decision.
  - crazysim 7y ago
    Software disabled heated seats?
    - giarc 7y ago
      When the "switch" is on a display, software can do anything.
- jak92 7y ago
  I don't understand. Will they be selling the standard then ? The quote and headline don't seem to match. And no, I haven't read the link. edit: I did read the link and I still don't understand.
  - Finch2192 7y ago
    Confusing indeed. Are they just trying to make it harder to buy the cheapest model? That's the only thing that makes sense to me.
    - mhermher 7y ago
      They use the cheapest model to try to lure customers in and upsell them. That is why it is not available online. They don't want to sell the SR; they are likely losing money on it.
  - mereel 7y ago
    I thought they were saying they're going to stop selling the current standard one, and the new "standard" will be the software limited plus, and that it will only be available at a store and not online.
    - stetrain 7y ago
      As far as I know they never delivered any of the Standard Range cars with cloth seats, and this sound like they don't plan to for the forseeable future.
  - stetrain 7y ago
    They were originally going to sell a physically different Standard Range model. Manually adjusting cloth seats, fewer speakers, a more basic center console, etc. The update is that they won't be making a physically distinct Standard Range model, it will be physically the same as the $39k model with software limitations.
- speeq 7y ago
  Sounds familiar: https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/01/tesla-kills-the-entry-level-40-kwh-model-s-citing-poor-demand/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/01/tesla-kills-the-entry-leve...
dangerfang 7y ago
Well it has been a few weeks since the last shakeup.
ms512 7y ago
Prior HN post that included some discussion on this point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12748863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12748863
minikites 7y ago
And just look at what you get for your money: https://twitter.com/Arronwu23/status/1116691772300599296 https://twitter.com/Arronwu23/status/1116691772300599296
- abc_lisper 7y ago
  Man. That is Damning!
  - abc_lisper 7y ago
    Why downmod? Why so sensitive.
    - abc_lisper 7y ago
      That got downmodded too.. Aww.. Do this one too.. Pleeze
      - sctb 7y ago
        > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
joenathanone 7y ago
It must be that Tesla is losing money on the base model.
- empath75 7y ago
  The couldn’t be as they haven’t produced a single one.
  - mtgx 7y ago
    Maybe they figured out they would be losing money, which is why they kept delaying manufacturing it? This whole "Standard Plus model is so much more popular anyway" is a sick joke.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Still could be, as long as their calculated build costs were higher than the advertised price, even if they haven't built one...
    - ambulancechaser 7y ago
      they could have lost money if they engineered the changes to the production line that they otherwise would have had to do.
  - richardknop 7y ago
    Which is probably why they haven't built any. They did the math and knew they can't make profit on it so they "announced" 35k model is available but tried to upsell all people who ordered it to more expensive models, and now they quietly cancelled the 35k model without delivering a single one. So they can say "hey we released 35k Model 3 as promised" to save face. But I don't think they can make profit from it so they are forced to sell more expensive models.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      I remember reading alleged whistler blower reports about damaged cells going into packs. Perhaps this is the most cost-effective way to utilize the stuff they built in tents.
tibbon 7y ago
I've been considering a Tesla. Buying the base model with zero options just never really crossed my mind. Seems that's the case for a lot of Tesla buyers. For me it's like buying a base laptop. For my personal one, I'll always max the SSD and memory.
- jak92 7y ago
  For me, the base model is all I've considered. Mainly because I want a electric car without any bells and whistles.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Would love one with computers minimized and privacy as a first-class concern, just like Adama did in the newer Battlestar Galactica, haha. (I do like the feature where the car slows/stops when it encounters an obstacle directly ahead. As far as I know it shouldn't require machine-learning/privacy invasion, but it is harder and harder to get one without the other.)
    - jak92 7y ago
      Yes, me too.
    - metalliqaz 7y ago
      Plug-in mod for Toyota Prius?
      - Domenic_S 7y ago
        Why the mod? It exists from the factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid
        metalliqaz 7y ago
        Yeah, sorry, I was thinking about one of the old ones because the OP wanted "minimized computers".
mtgx 7y ago
Maybe if they hadn't included $5,000+ worth of (fake) "full self-driving" hardware by default into all Model 3s, they wouldn't have needed to do this, and maybe they would've been able to make the base Model 3 a little cheaper, too, which I'm sure would've positively impacted its popularity (I think a $29,900 base Model 3 would be far more popular than Standard Plus). I could understand all the other carmakers being lured by the bells and whistles of "self-driving" marketing blitz over turning their cars into EVs, but I expected more from Tesla. Making great EVs that are also affordable should have always remained Tesla's #1 priority. Last I checked, Musk said he wanted the world to switch to EVs and the way to do that is through them making cheaper EVs with each generation. The priority shouldn't be to keep adding gimmicks to those Teslas and keeping them more expensive than they need to be. Has he forgotten that?
- mikeash 7y ago
  That hardware is necessary for safety features included in every car, and I seriously doubt it costs anywhere near that much money.
- gibybo 7y ago
  The hardware is like $1-2k, the $5k is just what they charge for the feature.
- dyarosla 7y ago
  I don't know if the cost is ~$5K to Tesla, but I for one am sold on their EV business and less so the 'self-driving capabilities'. I think all these self-driving options are being bundled into it because other car companies already add various forms of adaptive cruise/lane-keep to their base models so Tesla wants to have these things to stay competitive (prob adding the 'advanced functionality' to seem like they have a competitive edge). I wish that Tesla did have a non-smart car option. On the flip side, that makes me sound like one of the tech late-adopters who didn't "need" a smartphone, where a regular phone could have sufficed. In 5 years time, there may not be non-AI (not necessarily full self-driving) cars.
- stetrain 7y ago
  Many cars in this class have radar adaptive cruise and 360 cameras. I don't think the hardware here is really that expensive compared to other cars.
pdq 7y ago
Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual, so you can choose whether to buy the car.
- danso 7y ago
  He’s promised FSD in 2019, just a couple months ago, even though Tesla logged no testing miles in the last 2 years in California: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin...
  - tntn 7y ago
    I guess they are just counting on testing via the irresponsible tesla drivers who tape water bottles to the steering wheel and such.
  - Twirrim 7y ago
    So more of the mostly deluded, same old, same old, Elon hype. There's so many indicators that FSD is ages away from being safe, and so many stories of Tesla's just randomly steering in towards barriers and needing quick action from their drivers, even as recent as last month.
    - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
      > even as recent as last month. Here's a video from a few days ago of Tesla's Autopilot seemingly getting confused by a line made out of dirt, veering off-road and crashing[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51
      - ricardobeat 7y ago
ForHackernews 7y ago
Well, that offer lasted all of two weeks?
legitster 7y ago
I get the strong impression that even as a loss leader, the $35,000 figure was based on some back of envelope calculations. We know that they have had to expand or increase the cost in several ways since they started production. I know they really want to make the Model T of electric cars, but it took about a decade of development for Ford to deliver one under $500. And I don't think Tesla has quite mastered the science of car production yet.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  I believe it was an outright lie, an effort to solicit deposits and lure people into a bait-and-switch of higher priced models. All evidence to date suggests I'm right. Of course, they're never going to come out and say 'we fooled you' but I don't know what level of evidence people need before they reach the conclusion for themselves.
  - legitster 7y ago
    'Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence."
    - gowld 7y ago
      Deception and stupidity are merely implementation details of untrustworthiness. It doesn't matter.
    - mhermher 7y ago
      Incompetence? Isn't Elon a genius?
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    And what evidence would that be
  - pyify 7y ago
    "All evidence to date suggests I'm right". Can you give us some examples of all of this evidence?
mullen 7y ago
Maybe I am missing something but the Standard Range Plus Model 3 with no extras is about $34,500 (That is including Federal and California rebates).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kristianc 7y ago
Ah, another Tesla announcement that's backtracked after a couple of weeks. Purely as an outsider looking in it seems like there's a lot of caveat emptor about buying a Tesla: wait times seem apt to increase, models seem like they'll be arbitrarily subject to conditions, and random conditions seem to get attached about which models can and can't use chargers. There also seems a high likelihood of waiting a long time and paying $2,500 deposit for something which never arrives. And if you do get stiffed, there seems to be an attitude of 'it's your fault' (usually for not spending even more money with Tesla). Not the kind of consistency I'd want when making an investment in a car, to be honest.
- leesec 7y ago
  >There also seems a high likelihood of waiting a long time and paying $2,500 deposit for something which never arrives. Any examples of this? Pretty sure everything has arrived at some point, albeit a delay.
- pyify 7y ago
  If you were buying a car, would you not judge it by its merits, such as its handling abilities, safety, fuel costs, pollution, and ability to get you from A to B? That is the kind of consistency which most people look for when buying a car.
azhenley 7y ago
This article makes the change sound negative and confusing. But reading the original Tesla announcement [1], it all seems reasonable. People were buying the Standard Plus model six times more often than the Standard model, so they got rid of it. Good. [1] https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  Baloney. I'm sure lots of people who even wanted to buy the Standard model were put off because they never saw any actual deliveries of the 35k vehicle.
  - azhenley 7y ago
    As a Model 3 owner, I'm glad that they regularly shake things up. I want them adapting fast rather than waiting long periods of time to make changes.
melling 7y ago
Here’s a new interview with Musk on self-driving: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI The podcast if you prefer: https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk/ https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk/
usaphp 7y ago
Did they also dropped the price for a base model with autopilot by $1,500? It used to be $40,500 now it’s $39,000
xmpir 7y ago
So I guess jailbreaking Teslas will become a thing at some point in the future. If all the limits are software only people will find ways to use the car they own in the way they want...
- crsv 7y ago
  And suddenly the true context of their hacking competitions around their software platform make even more sense...
- username223 7y ago
  And Elon will randomly brick people's cars out of spite. It's a strange future.
- glitch003 7y ago
  It already is: https://www.fastcompany.com/90209541/meet-the-renegade-whos-teaching-the-world-to-fix-totaled-teslas https://www.fastcompany.com/90209541/meet-the-renegade-whos-...
apolymath 7y ago
All I know is that Tesla is dominating the luxury car market right now.
- steelframe 7y ago
  As someone who owns both an I-PACE and a Model X, I can say that Tesla hasn't quite nailed the "luxury" part yet.
leesec 7y ago
Once again I gotta say the negativity is astounding. People are so stoked to be rooting for this American tech company to fail. I really don't get it. The main gripe I see is that Tesla misses deadlines or makes promises they cannot fulfill. Is this not super common in nearly every industry? Have none of you missed deadlines? I remember this article[1]from last year stating GM would release fully autonomous cars with no steering wheel in 2019! Yet clearly that is not going to happen and I never heard any backlash, but I guess it's not cool to hate GM. I also am astounded to see people constantly saying Autonomy is a decade+ away. They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles, which would've seemed impossible 6 years ago, and yet here we are, and the last 5% is going to take a decade? How many times are people going to doubt Elon before they realize they're betting against someone whose done the impossible many times over. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/16880978/gm-autonomous-car-2019-detroit-auto-show-2018 https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/16880978/gm-autonomous-ca...
- dwighttk 7y ago
  >They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles I'm skeptical. I'd be surprised if more than 40% of my miles were freeway. Call me when we have fully autonomous trains and then I'll start thinking about losing my skepticism about autonomous cars.
  - leesec 7y ago
    >I'm skeptical. I'd be surprised if more than 40% of my miles were freeway. I didn't mean this was the average but I probably should have said commutes. My commute is nearly all highway and I basically don't touch the car from on-ramp to exit-ramp. >Call me when we have fully autonomous trains and then I'll start thinking about losing my skepticism about autonomous cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_...
    - dwighttk 7y ago
      I was thinking more freight trains, and I forgot this article was about a success: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/mining-company-says-first-autonomous-freight-train-network-is-fully-operational/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/mining-company-says-fir... It did take 10 years to build and cost 1.3 Billion dollars. And it is still being remotely monitored.
mrfusion 7y ago
The lease doesn’t look too bad but how much does insurance cost?
jefurii 7y ago
When are they going to make an electric car that regular working people can afford?

95 points by Pharmakon 7y ago

Here's the actual Tesla announcement: https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup "Given the popularity of the Standard Plus relative to the Standard, we have made the decision to simplify our production operations to better optimize cost, minimize complexity and streamline operations. As a result, Model 3 Standard will now be a software-limited version of the Standard Plus, and we are taking it off the online ordering menu, which just means that to get it, customers will need to call us or visit any one of the several hundred Tesla stores. Deliveries of Model 3 Standard will begin this weekend."

dv_dt 7y ago
The next paragraph is interesting too: "Its range will be limited by 10%, and several features will be disabled via software (including our onboard music streaming service, navigation with live traffic visualization, and heated seats). Similar to other software-limited vehicles produced in the past, Standard customers will have the option to upgrade to a Standard Plus at any time. Similarly, anyone who has already bought Standard Plus and wants to convert to Standard is welcome to do so, and we will provide a refund for the difference in cost." It's pretty confident to offer both upgrade and downgrade options between the two.
- rplnt 7y ago
  The downgrade offer is only for those who had already ordered. Not that you can downgrade at any time. It makes sense to offer this as your choice might have been influenced by the "permanency" of the decision.
- crazysim 7y ago
  Software disabled heated seats?
  - giarc 7y ago
    When the "switch" is on a display, software can do anything.
jak92 7y ago
I don't understand. Will they be selling the standard then ? The quote and headline don't seem to match. And no, I haven't read the link. edit: I did read the link and I still don't understand.
- Finch2192 7y ago
  Confusing indeed. Are they just trying to make it harder to buy the cheapest model? That's the only thing that makes sense to me.
  - mhermher 7y ago
    They use the cheapest model to try to lure customers in and upsell them. That is why it is not available online. They don't want to sell the SR; they are likely losing money on it.
- mereel 7y ago
  I thought they were saying they're going to stop selling the current standard one, and the new "standard" will be the software limited plus, and that it will only be available at a store and not online.
  - stetrain 7y ago
    As far as I know they never delivered any of the Standard Range cars with cloth seats, and this sound like they don't plan to for the forseeable future.
- stetrain 7y ago
  They were originally going to sell a physically different Standard Range model. Manually adjusting cloth seats, fewer speakers, a more basic center console, etc. The update is that they won't be making a physically distinct Standard Range model, it will be physically the same as the $39k model with software limitations.
speeq 7y ago
Sounds familiar: https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/01/tesla-kills-the-entry-level-40-kwh-model-s-citing-poor-demand/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/01/tesla-kills-the-entry-leve...

dangerfang 7y ago

Well it has been a few weeks since the last shakeup.

ms512 7y ago

Prior HN post that included some discussion on this point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12748863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12748863

minikites 7y ago

And just look at what you get for your money: https://twitter.com/Arronwu23/status/1116691772300599296 https://twitter.com/Arronwu23/status/1116691772300599296

abc_lisper 7y ago
Man. That is Damning!
- abc_lisper 7y ago
  Why downmod? Why so sensitive.
  - abc_lisper 7y ago
    That got downmodded too.. Aww.. Do this one too.. Pleeze
    - sctb 7y ago
      > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

joenathanone 7y ago

It must be that Tesla is losing money on the base model.

empath75 7y ago
The couldn’t be as they haven’t produced a single one.
- mtgx 7y ago
  Maybe they figured out they would be losing money, which is why they kept delaying manufacturing it? This whole "Standard Plus model is so much more popular anyway" is a sick joke.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Still could be, as long as their calculated build costs were higher than the advertised price, even if they haven't built one...
  - ambulancechaser 7y ago
    they could have lost money if they engineered the changes to the production line that they otherwise would have had to do.
- richardknop 7y ago
  Which is probably why they haven't built any. They did the math and knew they can't make profit on it so they "announced" 35k model is available but tried to upsell all people who ordered it to more expensive models, and now they quietly cancelled the 35k model without delivering a single one. So they can say "hey we released 35k Model 3 as promised" to save face. But I don't think they can make profit from it so they are forced to sell more expensive models.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    I remember reading alleged whistler blower reports about damaged cells going into packs. Perhaps this is the most cost-effective way to utilize the stuff they built in tents.

tibbon 7y ago

I've been considering a Tesla. Buying the base model with zero options just never really crossed my mind. Seems that's the case for a lot of Tesla buyers. For me it's like buying a base laptop. For my personal one, I'll always max the SSD and memory.

jak92 7y ago
For me, the base model is all I've considered. Mainly because I want a electric car without any bells and whistles.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Would love one with computers minimized and privacy as a first-class concern, just like Adama did in the newer Battlestar Galactica, haha. (I do like the feature where the car slows/stops when it encounters an obstacle directly ahead. As far as I know it shouldn't require machine-learning/privacy invasion, but it is harder and harder to get one without the other.)
  - jak92 7y ago
    Yes, me too.
  - metalliqaz 7y ago
    Plug-in mod for Toyota Prius?
    - Domenic_S 7y ago
      Why the mod? It exists from the factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid
      - metalliqaz 7y ago
        Yeah, sorry, I was thinking about one of the old ones because the OP wanted "minimized computers".

mtgx 7y ago

Maybe if they hadn't included $5,000+ worth of (fake) "full self-driving" hardware by default into all Model 3s, they wouldn't have needed to do this, and maybe they would've been able to make the base Model 3 a little cheaper, too, which I'm sure would've positively impacted its popularity (I think a $29,900 base Model 3 would be far more popular than Standard Plus). I could understand all the other carmakers being lured by the bells and whistles of "self-driving" marketing blitz over turning their cars into EVs, but I expected more from Tesla. Making great EVs that are also affordable should have always remained Tesla's #1 priority. Last I checked, Musk said he wanted the world to switch to EVs and the way to do that is through them making cheaper EVs with each generation. The priority shouldn't be to keep adding gimmicks to those Teslas and keeping them more expensive than they need to be. Has he forgotten that?

mikeash 7y ago
That hardware is necessary for safety features included in every car, and I seriously doubt it costs anywhere near that much money.
gibybo 7y ago
The hardware is like $1-2k, the $5k is just what they charge for the feature.
dyarosla 7y ago
I don't know if the cost is ~$5K to Tesla, but I for one am sold on their EV business and less so the 'self-driving capabilities'. I think all these self-driving options are being bundled into it because other car companies already add various forms of adaptive cruise/lane-keep to their base models so Tesla wants to have these things to stay competitive (prob adding the 'advanced functionality' to seem like they have a competitive edge). I wish that Tesla did have a non-smart car option. On the flip side, that makes me sound like one of the tech late-adopters who didn't "need" a smartphone, where a regular phone could have sufficed. In 5 years time, there may not be non-AI (not necessarily full self-driving) cars.
stetrain 7y ago
Many cars in this class have radar adaptive cruise and 360 cameras. I don't think the hardware here is really that expensive compared to other cars.

pdq 7y ago

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual, so you can choose whether to buy the car.

danso 7y ago
He’s promised FSD in 2019, just a couple months ago, even though Tesla logged no testing miles in the last 2 years in California: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin...
- tntn 7y ago
  I guess they are just counting on testing via the irresponsible tesla drivers who tape water bottles to the steering wheel and such.
- Twirrim 7y ago
  So more of the mostly deluded, same old, same old, Elon hype. There's so many indicators that FSD is ages away from being safe, and so many stories of Tesla's just randomly steering in towards barriers and needing quick action from their drivers, even as recent as last month.
  - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
    > even as recent as last month. Here's a video from a few days ago of Tesla's Autopilot seemingly getting confused by a line made out of dirt, veering off-road and crashing[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51
    - ricardobeat 7y ago

ForHackernews 7y ago

Well, that offer lasted all of two weeks?

legitster 7y ago

I get the strong impression that even as a loss leader, the $35,000 figure was based on some back of envelope calculations. We know that they have had to expand or increase the cost in several ways since they started production. I know they really want to make the Model T of electric cars, but it took about a decade of development for Ford to deliver one under $500. And I don't think Tesla has quite mastered the science of car production yet.

linuxftw 7y ago
I believe it was an outright lie, an effort to solicit deposits and lure people into a bait-and-switch of higher priced models. All evidence to date suggests I'm right. Of course, they're never going to come out and say 'we fooled you' but I don't know what level of evidence people need before they reach the conclusion for themselves.
- legitster 7y ago
  'Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence."
  - gowld 7y ago
    Deception and stupidity are merely implementation details of untrustworthiness. It doesn't matter.
  - mhermher 7y ago
    Incompetence? Isn't Elon a genius?
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  And what evidence would that be
- pyify 7y ago
  "All evidence to date suggests I'm right". Can you give us some examples of all of this evidence?

mullen 7y ago

Maybe I am missing something but the Standard Range Plus Model 3 with no extras is about $34,500 (That is including Federal and California rebates).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kristianc 7y ago

Ah, another Tesla announcement that's backtracked after a couple of weeks. Purely as an outsider looking in it seems like there's a lot of caveat emptor about buying a Tesla: wait times seem apt to increase, models seem like they'll be arbitrarily subject to conditions, and random conditions seem to get attached about which models can and can't use chargers. There also seems a high likelihood of waiting a long time and paying $2,500 deposit for something which never arrives. And if you do get stiffed, there seems to be an attitude of 'it's your fault' (usually for not spending even more money with Tesla). Not the kind of consistency I'd want when making an investment in a car, to be honest.

leesec 7y ago
>There also seems a high likelihood of waiting a long time and paying $2,500 deposit for something which never arrives. Any examples of this? Pretty sure everything has arrived at some point, albeit a delay.
pyify 7y ago
If you were buying a car, would you not judge it by its merits, such as its handling abilities, safety, fuel costs, pollution, and ability to get you from A to B? That is the kind of consistency which most people look for when buying a car.

azhenley 7y ago

This article makes the change sound negative and confusing. But reading the original Tesla announcement [1], it all seems reasonable. People were buying the Standard Plus model six times more often than the Standard model, so they got rid of it. Good. [1] https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Baloney. I'm sure lots of people who even wanted to buy the Standard model were put off because they never saw any actual deliveries of the 35k vehicle.
- azhenley 7y ago
  As a Model 3 owner, I'm glad that they regularly shake things up. I want them adapting fast rather than waiting long periods of time to make changes.

melling 7y ago

Here’s a new interview with Musk on self-driving: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI The podcast if you prefer: https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk/ https://lexfridman.com/elon-musk/

usaphp 7y ago

Did they also dropped the price for a base model with autopilot by $1,500? It used to be $40,500 now it’s $39,000

xmpir 7y ago

So I guess jailbreaking Teslas will become a thing at some point in the future. If all the limits are software only people will find ways to use the car they own in the way they want...

crsv 7y ago
And suddenly the true context of their hacking competitions around their software platform make even more sense...
username223 7y ago
And Elon will randomly brick people's cars out of spite. It's a strange future.
glitch003 7y ago
It already is: https://www.fastcompany.com/90209541/meet-the-renegade-whos-teaching-the-world-to-fix-totaled-teslas https://www.fastcompany.com/90209541/meet-the-renegade-whos-...

apolymath 7y ago

All I know is that Tesla is dominating the luxury car market right now.

steelframe 7y ago
As someone who owns both an I-PACE and a Model X, I can say that Tesla hasn't quite nailed the "luxury" part yet.

leesec 7y ago

Once again I gotta say the negativity is astounding. People are so stoked to be rooting for this American tech company to fail. I really don't get it. The main gripe I see is that Tesla misses deadlines or makes promises they cannot fulfill. Is this not super common in nearly every industry? Have none of you missed deadlines? I remember this article[1]from last year stating GM would release fully autonomous cars with no steering wheel in 2019! Yet clearly that is not going to happen and I never heard any backlash, but I guess it's not cool to hate GM. I also am astounded to see people constantly saying Autonomy is a decade+ away. They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles, which would've seemed impossible 6 years ago, and yet here we are, and the last 5% is going to take a decade? How many times are people going to doubt Elon before they realize they're betting against someone whose done the impossible many times over. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/16880978/gm-autonomous-car-2019-detroit-auto-show-2018 https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/16880978/gm-autonomous-ca...

dwighttk 7y ago
>They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles I'm skeptical. I'd be surprised if more than 40% of my miles were freeway. Call me when we have fully autonomous trains and then I'll start thinking about losing my skepticism about autonomous cars.
- leesec 7y ago
  >I'm skeptical. I'd be surprised if more than 40% of my miles were freeway. I didn't mean this was the average but I probably should have said commutes. My commute is nearly all highway and I basically don't touch the car from on-ramp to exit-ramp. >Call me when we have fully autonomous trains and then I'll start thinking about losing my skepticism about autonomous cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_...
  - dwighttk 7y ago
    I was thinking more freight trains, and I forgot this article was about a success: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/mining-company-says-first-autonomous-freight-train-network-is-fully-operational/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/mining-company-says-fir... It did take 10 years to build and cost 1.3 Billion dollars. And it is still being remotely monitored.

mrfusion 7y ago

The lease doesn’t look too bad but how much does insurance cost?

jefurii 7y ago

When are they going to make an electric car that regular working people can afford?