9 ms·

The best laptop ever made

390 points by hodgesmr 9y ago

cgore 9y ago
That's what I'm using at work, and what I've got for my personal laptop too. Are the new ones that much worse? They don't seem like there at all worse to me, I've been thinking about getting one.
- tolger 9y ago
  I think the lack of standard ports, mag-safe, hdmi and sd card slots are big regressions in functionality. Not to mention that the touchbar is not very useful, and as an emacs user, a big pain to not have a physical <esc> key.
  - BlackjackCF 9y ago
    Vim user. Mapped <esc> to capslock. But yeah, the touchbar drives me insane because I accidentally just press buttons on it all the time.
  - cgore 9y ago
    I live in Emacs too. I thought you could get one with real buttons? Did they drop that?
    - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
      They make a 13" MBP without the touchbar. Except it's using the lower power 15 watt CPUs, the same category the Macbook Airs used to use. So it's basically a Macbook Air with a retina screen and a hefty price hike.
- zchrykng 9y ago
  In my opinion you would need to try one to know. My wife has one and the keyboard is such a far step back I can't even describe it properly. If nothing changes, I will be sticking to my 2014 or switching to Lenovo.
  - cgore 9y ago
    I hate the keyboard on the 2015 era ones too though, I'm always using my giant Microsoft hump style keyboard instad. I only use the built-in keyboard in hotel rooms/conferences/etc.
hactually 9y ago
I'm using the 2017/latest Macbook Pro for work and have the late 2015 at home and I totally agree with this post. The trackpad isn't improved, the touchbar is crappy and it runs for less time and runs hotter. If any HW startup wants to do a Macbook Pro 2015 redux (maybe using an ARM core) i'd throw money at them.
- pqh 9y ago
  Bonus if it's all hardware with good Linux drivers.
pjmorris 9y ago
I've got one at the office, and love it. Anyone want to sell me their spare?
- Skunkleton 9y ago
  Sure. I will sell you my spare if you are in the bay area.
  - pjmorris 9y ago
    Alas, I am not. Thanks for the offer.
blt 9y ago
I have a 2013 high end model with Nvidia graphics. I love it. If all goes well, I plan to use it at least through 2020.
chakalakasp 9y ago
As someone who just inherited one of these at work and who had never played with a MacBook before, my first thought when seeing the headline was “If it’s not a MacBook Pro 2015, I don’t know what it is”. This thing is pure functional art. The first time my screen just magically unlocked itself because I happened to be wearing a particular watch was the moment nerd-like turned into nerd-love.
- majewsky 9y ago
  The only thing I can think of regarding this story is how it's now an infosec hazard for you to take off your watch while showering.
  - Jyaif 9y ago
    Removing the watch locks the watch, and makes it unable to unlock other devices.
HugThem 9y ago
The glossy screen is a showstopper for me.
- Kenji 9y ago
  This. I prefer my mirrors in my bathroom, not on my work desk.
- telesilla 9y ago
  I understand these work very well: https://www.moshi.com/ivisor-12#black https://www.moshi.com/ivisor-12#black (I have this wonderful macbook too, but I got used to the glare, it's not as bad as previous glassy versions)
  - pizza234 9y ago
    Screen protectors work well for any size, but they need to be applied with special equipment; it's already hard to apply them without imperfections on a 5", I can't imagine doing that on a 12".
- prograhammer 9y ago
  The thing about glossy though is once you come out of the code editor and look at the finished product...ohhhh...it looks so good.
- pizza234 9y ago
  There are companies that professionally laminate screens with a (removable) matte screen protector. Once you'll laminate a glossy screen, you'll never want to go back again. I don't know in USA, but in Europe, a German company does it: http://www.tdcomponents.com/shop/displayschutz_laminierung.php http://www.tdcomponents.com/shop/displayschutz_laminierung.p...
  - thijsvandien 9y ago
    The foil seems to cost around 40 EUR. What would be the total price to have them apply it for you?
Mizza 9y ago
I totally agree, but I'm not happy to see this post for the selfish reason that I'm worried it will be harder to buy a refurbished one once the one I'm currently using dies. With the exception of the non-ergonomic keyboard layout, I could keep using this machine forever and be pretty happy.
Rainymood 9y ago
I have a mid-2014 model and I absolutely love it. However, weird spots have been appearing on my screen now on the black edge and I'm kind of nervous/scared. Anyone else with these spots?
- dewey 9y ago
  Yep, that's the screen coating coming off. It's known as "Staingate": http://www.staingate.org/ http://www.staingate.org/ I got mine replaced for free from Apple (they even upgraded me to the most expensive model of the next generation as they didn't have my medium level one any more)
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    Does it have to be under the first year or two for warranty for that? I definitely have this, but I'm 2.5 years out at this point. Edit: https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/24/retina-macbook-display-staingate/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/24/retina-macbook-display-staing... Oh my! I think I could go get a shiny fix/replacement. I am definitely going to have to do that Thanks for this post! hah
rocky1138 9y ago
It's pretty good, yeah. I really would have loved it if they simply doubled the USB ports and re-included an Ethernet jack for the newest one instead of doing what they did.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  That almost sounds like a unibody Macbook Pro. I'm probably in the minority here, but to me, the best laptop ever made was the 15" unibody Macbook Pro, the predecessor to the Retina (so long as we forget the gpu dumpster fire that was the early 2011 models). It had plenty of ports and had the perfect balance of portability and components that were easily upgraded by end users.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Except the new ones have USB-C, which can literally become any other port. Any one of them can become the Ethernet jack. Any one of them can become the video out. Any one of them can become the charging port.
random3 9y ago
This is the most elegant critique to the current line of Macs I've read so far. I hope it reaches the right eyes and ears. While Steve Jobs was unique, I believe Apple has the right people to continue delivering the same great products. They just need to let them do their jobs. This said, I'm looking forward to test a Pixel 2 Chromebook.
- jseliger 9y ago
  This is the most elegant critique to the current line of Macs I've read so far. I hope it reaches the right eyes and ears. I tried a 12" MacBook. It was a gorgeous machine and wildly fast given its size. But its trackpad is a grotesque monstrosity, and while I writing I too often activated it by accident, flinging the cursor to some distant spot by accident. Then I'd have to stop, recover, and reset. I can't figure out what usability case would mandate a trackpad that large. I returned the computer and suspect that the last generation of 13" MBPs may become "legendary," because they don't make the ginormous trackpad error.
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    > I can't figure out what usability case would mandate a trackpad that large. I couldn't figure it out either. Did they have a bunch of focus group feedback saying "this trackpad is too damn small... moving my wrist 1/4" to touch the trackpad from a resting spot is way too much work, I'd rather have my wrists touching the trackpad"? That's the only feedback I can see them getting to justify it. That or... it's a general trend towards the ios-ification of mac, and pushing towards "touch interface" for everything (except, of course, on the actual screen).
  - ksec 9y ago
    That is exactly the problem with current Apple, it felt like they are doing this for the sake of it, not because it is in any case better.
jordache 9y ago
>Apple still sells this model, brand new.. How? Where? I have the 2017 MBA 15" . Hate how the thing crashes all the time from using USBC peripherals... arghh..
- e40 9y ago
  Perhaps he meant here? https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15 https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macb...
  - neonhomer 9y ago
    Looking at those laptops there's only 1 pre-2016 one currently. I have a 2013 one I got refurbished and it's going to have to last me a long time.
- quwert95 9y ago
  Here you are, friend: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config# https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2... If that doesn't work, go to Mac > Macbook Pro > Buy > 15" > Scroll down to the 3rd option. They come in and out of stock though.
  - jordache 9y ago
    OH! that one model at the very bottom of the 15" page!?
    - quwert95 9y ago
      Exactly. They sort of hide it. I'm in IT and order these all the time for engineers and sales folks; it's much preferred over the new models. ;)
draw_down 9y ago
Wow. I guess I didn't quite realize how much Macs have backslid until he started pointing out things we don't get anymore. I still can't believe they got rid of Magsafe. Jeez.
sideproject 9y ago
Using it right now - it's... so reliable. Had zero problems. Love these zero-problem products in life (and they are not that easy to find to be honest)
- eropple 9y ago
  I've had problems with my 2014, but at the same time it's repairable. The screen went a bit screwy, so I opened it and replaced the LVDS cable. Right back to ticking along. Typing this on a 2012 rMBP that's still a champ.
ian0 9y ago
My first retina worked worked well for a few months. Until the screen started looking like it was being burnt by the keyboard (a now known factory defect) My second one, around a year later, had the same screen problem! Not only that, it had a logic board failure that took me months to resolve and left it practically unusable (random crashes etc). Three times to the mac store to sort this one and a multi week wait at the end for a new logic board. On both laptops: Wifi doesn't connect to half the hotspots I ask it to. Boot times become long even with a bare minimum installed after a few months of use. Charging cables have a lifespan of less than a year and cost a fortune to replace. Im a heavy user and admittedly I don't take care of my stuff as much as I could. But Id always bought macs because they were reliable and durable (My ancient powerbook is still in use) and not had any problems. Indeed - after swearing off macbook pros I had the chance to try and later buy a 2012 macbook air. Damn - it reminds me of macs of old. 5 years old and it just.. works. I couldn't be happier and am seriously considering buying another to do me when this dies. Im not sure if the tide will come back in but I think the high water mark was perhaps before the retina. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/17/apple-mbp-ar-coating-quality-program-staingate/ https://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/17/apple-mbp-ar-coating-qu...
bahmboo 9y ago
Only downsides: I have had 2 screens replaced due to delamination and this 3rd one has developed a purple line down the middle. Also picking it up with one hand on the corner can register a false touchpad click. Magsafe2 was a totally unnecessary change. Bizarre really. But all that aside it's a champ and the only reason I would replace is because of the stuck purple line.
- thijsvandien 9y ago
  Yes, the coating coming off was a pity. After having my screen replaced, I thought I'd have one that didn't have the same production error anymore and yet it came back. Found out too late about the extended warranty program to have it replaced a second time. All I can hope for is that my new 2015 model does have a screen that will last, but I can't find any confirmation anywhere that the issue was ever resolved...
bllguo 9y ago
I use one at work and never thought much about it. But reading this I have to agree. It simply works. I never had to think about my hardware because it silently and adequately does its job. If I owned any other Apple devices, I imagine the experience would be even better. I have an expensive Windows laptop for personal use. The much more impressive specs aside, the experience is admittedly inferior. Why is it taking so long to build a similarly seamless laptop on Windows?
synicalx 9y ago
Do we maybe need some kind of Mac-Reformation? Maybe Johnny could print this out and nail it to the front door of the new Apple HQ? (assuming it even has a front door, of course)
- simonmales 9y ago
  I mention to colleagues that I hope produce a MacBook Pro 'classic' line. I totally agree with the author: it is a professional machine.
  - abledon 9y ago
    hopefully, a few people at APPLE read hacker news, and relay this information to more and more people in the company.... hope they realize this in 2018. - macbookpro 13" 2011 user
stillkicking 9y ago
The current MacBook Pro should've been a separate product line, like the MacBook Air was. Those who are happy with the sacrifices it makes could switch over, but they wouldn't have to leave everyone else out in the cold.
- blhack 9y ago
  Those should be the new "macbook"s. The pro line should carry pro features.
  - 59nadir 9y ago
    Pro features like being incompatible with Apple's own products, having shorter battery time, often running hotter than the previous iterations, not having magsafe, etc.. Bringing a new meaning to "tortured artist", opening up for tortured software devs to join in a more literal sense. Why don't we look for other cool ways to make excuses for things getting worse or being bad, like saying "It's a bad craftsman that blames his tools" and other platitudes to excuse away technology that is legitimately worse than its alternatives? It's so meaningful to everyone around us when we refuse to engage in any kind of discussion about how good things are and why some things could be considered worse than others.
megaman22 9y ago
If I could get one of the late 2000s 17" MacBook Pros, but with updated internals, that would definitely be my next laptop. I know several people that bought them for college and are still chugging away with them a decade later.
- lj3 9y ago
  They made them as recently as 2011. Unibody aluminum. Matte or glossy screen. 1920x1200. IPS. 2.5ghz quad core i7. Ram's a little slow at PC3-1333. Those don't have replaceable batteries, but you can replace them yourself fairly easily. You can pick them up for about $1k. It's sobering, really. The only substantial improvement made to laptops in the past 6 years is battery life.
  - ScottBurson 9y ago
    Yes, I'm still using my 2011 17-incher. Will be very sad when it dies.
Uhhrrr 9y ago
Disagree; it doesn't have a pointing stick.
- camelCaseOfBeer 9y ago
  You mean the dick nipple?
revelation 9y ago
The best laptop ever made came with not one, but two ports for an utterly failed connector standard (Thunderbolt), long since ditched? And those replaced the ubiquitous RJ45 Ethernet jack? At least they had the good sense to include HDMI and not go full TB.
- bhj 9y ago
  The connections are standard mini-DisplayPort, which is still very much a thing. As is the Thunderbolt 1/2 protocol over those connections (in the audio world, for example)
etchalon 9y ago
While I agree with Marco (and would add that generations Air was the best consumer laptop every produced), I always feel like it's unfair to judge the final iteration of one architecture with any other iteration of a new architecture. A lot of things had to fall in place for the RMBP to be "perfect", specifically the move away from optical, the prevalence of speed of 802.11ac, etc. The Touch Bar Pro is an equally great model, when used in a similar "perfect" world (USB-C peripherals, connected to an LG 5K). But it's a terrible model "in the field", as very few things are ready for USB-C (including USB-C in some respects).
mrtksn 9y ago
I don't know, I kind of think that the best ever is Macbook Air 2015. I would also argue that Macbook Air was the first laptop ever since it was the first truly portable - not just transportable personal computer ever. For the first time a notebook was light, performant and run long enough on battery to be actually usable out of your office or home. Yep, the screen is not retina but it's also significantly lighter, thinner and has longer battery life. The design, so perfect that hasn't changed since 2010.
- pan69 9y ago
  I agree. I have the 2012 model, bought new in 2013 for cheap. 8 gigs of ram with an i7. I recently had the battery replaced. I has some blemishes on the screen. Every ones in a while I'm looking at upgrading to a Mac Pro, but then again, this little laptop is still going strong, so why should I?
  - Certhas 9y ago
    Exactly my experience, except I just spilled coffee on it and now the keyboard needs replacing. That's expensive and a bit hard to justify on a 5 year old machine, so I'm going to break out the screwdrivers soon and give it a go. With every previous laptop I would have just taken it as a good moment to buy a new device, but I honestly don't see the point right now.
- Danihan 9y ago
  Completely agree. Just bought my third one, just a perfect product in my mind.
- schappim 9y ago
  I completely agree with you. The battery to power balance was amazing. It really lasted all day unlike the MacBook/MacBook Pro we have today.
- femto113 9y ago
  I tried to like the Air but the aluminum bezel around the screen is a non-starter for me. If there has to be something around the screen it better fade into the background (like the MBP's black glass or a typical desktop monitor's black plastic).
mmgutz 9y ago
Sadly my 2013 MBP logic board died after some spilled beer. I purchased and quickly returned a 2017 15" MBP. This is not the MBP which made me switch from Windows. Apple laptops are becoming too thin at the expense of features I care about: larger battery, more diverse (HDMI and USB3) port, the mag safe connector and a longer travel keyboard. I could care less about Apple having the thinnest laptop. That's what the Air line was for.
stcredzero 9y ago
I have a 2012 13" Macbook Pro at the office. It's still going strong, and I'm still just a bit more productive on it than on my fancy schmancy Asus laptop with a GTX 1070. Since I'm running Xubuntu in VirtualBox in seamless mode, installing software for cloud/game server development is sometimes more convenient on the Asus, but I still have to deal with running a VM. The trackpad is better on the Macbook Pro. What's more, Windows 10 startup got corrupted by an update last night, and I'm still dealing with that. I've had to deal with the equivalent level of problem on the Macbook (SSD failure) but the tools that come with MacOS make that at least 5X easier. (It has been a real saga with the Windows 10 laptop, which I will leave out the details of.)
chaoticmass 9y ago
Keyboard layout makes it nigh unusable for my work, programming.
- myhf 9y ago
  What keys do you need that aren't on a 78-key layout?
  - recursive 9y ago
    I haven't used it, but from the photo, I don't see home, end, pageup, pagedown, and backspace. (or maybe delete, but at least one of the two.) Personally, I use all those regularly.
    - myhf 9y ago
      Yeah, you have to use the function modifier for those. Function + up-arrow = page-up is easy to learn. Chords can remain easily learnable down to about 65 keys, but on a smaller layout (~40 keys), you have to memorize multiple layers for dozens of keys.
    - chaoticmass 9y ago
      ding ding ding This guy gets it. I suppose if I bit the bullet and unlearned years of muscle memory I could do without those keys, but at this point it's not worth the effort. I'll stick to ThinkPads if I need to code on a laptop.
- mcphage 9y ago
  That's a shame, since there are thousands of programmers who are using it for their work right now.
  - recursive 9y ago
    Why would that make it a shame? There are a lot of people using tools of all kinds that are insufficient for others.
passivepinetree 9y ago
Every year I ponder getting a new laptop to replace my mid-2012 MacBook Pro. Every year I don't. Instead I wipe the hard drive, reinstall the OS, and I have a brand new machine. Even the battery is still going strong 5.5 years into ownership. This article hit the nail on the head. The laptop fulfills every need I have better than anything else I've tried.
- wyclif 9y ago
  Curious why you wipe the hard drive instead of upgrading. Of course, I'm fairly certain it's because you've tried that and had issues just like many users do. I'm just wondering what they are and how people justify "wipe and reinstall" (instead of updating the OS) whenever a new version of macOS is released.
  - passivepinetree 9y ago
    That's absolutely why. Every time I try to just use the "Install macOS $VERSION" app, my new installation seems slow and buggy, and I swear some of my files disappear. But if I backup everything and then wipe the drive, things work perfect. I also get the additional benefit of only adding back the programs/files/settings I actually use, so I use it as a "spring cleaning" to clear out all the cruft that accumulates during the previous year.
    - wyclif 9y ago
      I get it, but how much work is it for you to add back apps and other software and how do you manage that so it takes less time? Do you clone all your settings and dotfiles in a repository?
      - passivepinetree 9y ago
        It's actually not that bad; I'd say maybe a couple of hours at most. I actually enjoy the opportunity to slim down the apps/files/etc. that I need. It's like a spring cleaning for my files. My settings/dotfiles are something I've been backing up on my external harddrive, but it would be a good project to put them into a repository somewhere and make a setup script to get everything installed just how I like it.
puppetmaster30 9y ago
I have one. Here is my next one: https://system76.com/cart/configure/lemu8 https://system76.com/cart/configure/lemu8
- pan69 9y ago
  Whoo. It has VGA output.
- maerF0x0 9y ago
  I wish they went better than 1080p screen. Everything else seems to be on point, including price.
- zeveb 9y ago
  If System76 would support straight Debian stable, I'd be a customer for life. I actively dislike Ubuntu, and think that supporting Debian will result in 'free' Ubuntu support, while not being noticeably more expensive to begin with.
afinno 9y ago
It's odd that this was posted as I was thinking along these lines the other day. I have a 2012 Retina 15". The first generation. I spec'd it out at the time hoping for it to last me at least a few years. From 2015 I've been eyeing off every new release of Macbook Pro thinking "yeah this time I'll upgrade" but then I realise there is actually nothing wrong with my current one. Like, nothing at all. I realise the battery is going die eventually and software updates will no longer be supported at some point, but for now it really is the best computer I've ever owned. Note: I've been on all sides of the fence (Amiga/win95->winVista/OSX) so I'm not just a fanboi.
- shalmanese 9y ago
  Were the issues with mouse lag on the 2012 model hardware or software related? I tried a 2012 right when it first came out and got physically nauseous from the extreme degree of mouse lag when scrolling. The 2013 never had any problems and I've been using that for the last 4 years.
  - thinkythought 9y ago
    This was completely corrected in software in the next big OS release. It was HORRENDOUS at launch though. It's smooth as butter on the latest version, with the same hardware. Machine runs cooler too
  - omikun 9y ago
    Definitely a software issue. I have the 2012 model and it would lag in expose. But after the metal upgrade it got a lot smoother. Still gets choppy with many apps, but otherwise smooth animations in most places.
- jseliger 9y ago
  but for now it really is the best computer I've ever owned. I mentioned this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15700403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15700403 regarding the 12" Macbook, but I'm baffled by the size of the trackpads on the new laptops. What's the point of having trackpads that large? It seems only to impair usability.
yoodenvranx 9y ago
For me it's the Lenovo T61 with a 14.4" 4:3 display (or any of the older 4:3 IBMs). Yes, compared to modern laptops it is heavy, slow, bulky and has a shitty display but: i) I can replace every single piece of it with a simple screwdriver and ii) 4:3 is still the best aspect ratio for reading and developing. If I am doing the latter I prefer a screen with a lot of height. A 4:3 aspect ratio gives me a tall screen while keeping the overall size of the laptop down. When DVDs became popular there was suddenly the idea that a laptop _had_ to have a 16:9 aspect ratio (e.g. "HD") and unfortunately this killed the whole idea of a laptop with a tall but narrow screen. Microsoft seems to go back to an older style with their 3:2 but I'd still love to see a modern T61 with a true 4:3 screen.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  I thought it was going to be an older Thinkpad. Matte screen, great keyboard, three-button touchpad, runs Linux, and you could drop it on concrete while running with barely a scratch. (I haven't dropped one recently to test the newer models.) Also cheap next-day, at-home repair plans where they drive to your house and fix anything that is broken without asking any questions.
  - RachelF 9y ago
    The matte screen is a must have for me. I dislike seeing reflections and find matte screens have way less eyestrain.
- O1111OOO 9y ago
  > For me it's the Lenovo T61 with a 14.4" 4:3 display (or any of the older 4:3 IBMs). Which is why I thought it was odd that he didn't even mention aspect ratio. 16:9, for example, is a deal-breaker for me personally. This limits the kind of devices I have available (and sadly, increases the price point) but I simply can't do 16:9 as I find it too constraining. My options today are 16:10 and 3:2. From a hardware standpoint, Apple's document-friendly screens on both their laptops and tablets have always been a strong selling point. Currently on a 16:10 but shopping around for a more modern 3:2/16:10 that's Linux-friendly.
sarreph 9y ago
I knew what laptop Marco would be talking about before I clicked on the link. Perhaps that says something about Marco, but I have the feeling it's almost certainly about how widely-lauded the old rMBP was, and still clearly is. Apple got so many things right with it, because all the design choices made sense, for exactly the reasons Marco gives. The design choices being made at the top of Apple no longer make sense. Take the touch-bar, for example; it was a passable idea, but flawed in execution and production. If you want another example, how about DongleGate™? The most recent USB-C trend was not handled the way Apple used to handle standards progressions. Yes, they annoyed us in the past with too many FireWire ports, and an overly-futureproofed candy drop iMac (USB)... But even then, those choices made sense because the rest of the ecosystem was thought about. This is clear when you compare it to today's offering, where you cannot plug a new iPhone into a new MacBook, out of the box! Incredible...
- devdad 9y ago
  I had to get a new MBP really quick, and didn't know about the USB-C. I couldn't even use it for work since none of the monitors (one Thunderbolt, one would HDMI) would plug in, my iPhone used for dev didn't fit and and my USB-keyboard was a mismatch. Such a poor implementation.
- geetfun 9y ago
  I really loved the 2012-2015 line of MBPs. I didn't have a 15 inch, but the 13 inch one. It'll always be my favourite as it's the perfect balance between size/portability/power/style.
  - NovaS1X 9y ago
    Agreed. My dream is a 13" with a quad-core CPU and TB3. With e-gpus progressing they way there are with TB3, my laptop is very close to replacing my desktop as well.
- tritium 9y ago
  DongleGate™ arguably started (and was likely internally fomented) with this edition of the MacBook Pro. This was the first MacBook Pro to exclude an ethernet port, and when Desktop Support at my company handed it to me, I looked at it and asked them what the fuck was I supposed to do about it? They shrugged, threw up their hands and left (I was the prima donna that asked for the Mac, figure it out asshole), and so I limped along on guest wi-fi for a week, until figuring out that I had to buy a dongle if I wanted to use wired ethernet. Eventually snagged some from desktop IT services too, but initially, they were callous and indifferent to my plight. If anything seeing the statistics for the successful sales of this model and related essential dongle accessories, despite knee-capping ethernet, and forcing dongle adoption to replace an old, standard, widely reliable and convenient data bus standard, could only have inspired and emboldened choices like the headphone jack debacle and USB-C minimalism which still plague us even today.
thijsvandien 9y ago
I got myself the 2012 model shortly after it was introduced. Despite the obvious risk, I made an exception to the rule of never buying a 1st gen. It was simply everything I (until then) didn't know I wanted. A machine truly worthy of the Pro label, pushing the state of the art at a fair price. I was happy to spend my money. Meanwhile we lost both the quality and the fair price. It really makes me feel sour, to the point that I just bought a new 2015 model only to have the warranty that I'll have a proper MBP for three years to come. It was no more than a contingency plan; a rational decision made out of a lack of options, involving no enthusiasm at all. During that period I'll either have to find a good alternative to switch away to, or – hopefully – Apple will introduce something new that will make me want to be their customer again. Honestly, I can't say I'm optimistic about either.
- SkyMarshal 9y ago
  Not quite following you here, are you saying the 2015 variant is not as good as its 2012 same-model predecessor? What's the difference?
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    I'm thinking the OP meant that, when looking to upgrade, the 2015 model was the only choice left, due to the changes in the 2016 model. I'm guessing that because I came to a similar conclusion. My decision was a combination of the new design choices and price point - a refurb 2015 gave me more consistency with earlier models, while saving > $1000. There were/are positive aspects to the 2016 (I miss the touchid on the model I had for a couple weeks) but enough annoyances to make the question the value I was getting at that price point. My 2016 ended up being... $3700? Had it been, say, $2500, it would have been a no brainer to keep, even with some of the design drawbacks.
  - thijsvandien 9y ago
    What I meant is that practically the only reason I upgraded* is that I don't want to risk my old one breaking when no pre-2016 model is available new from Apple anymore, which could be anytime soon. Now warranty assures me that for at least three years I'll be able to keep using the 2015 model. I can't switch to another platform all at once, or bet that my stuff won't stop working before Apple get their act together again. That's why the lack of options. *This new one isn't really worse, nor is it much better. The biggest improvement is the SSD. No more dGPU is a loss in terms of performance but a win for durability and battery life. The screen has this weird thing that something inside slides when you shake or turn it on the side (https://youtu.be/HmL7KXCMfxU https://youtu.be/HmL7KXCMfxU). Don't bother having it replaced because all have it to some extent. I suppose it doesn't affect anything but my quality perception. Everything else feels pretty much the same.
petercooper 9y ago
I feel like the odd one out. I buy a new MBP every 12-18 months (have owned all Intel generations), use my MBP for hours every day, and think the latest is by far the best. Being able to charge on either side is a big deal for me as I move around a lot, plus being able to use 30W USB-C power packs and third party chargers (e.g. Anker) without fear of fire.. a massive boon for me, especially as my phone and Nintendo Switch work on the same cables. USB-C cables fall out with little tension so have had no pre-MagSafe style accidents so far. The touchpad is better than my 2016, the touchbar is almost pointless to me but no worse in operation, and it runs way cooler and quieter - the past two generations used to burn my legs and were noisy. The only downsides are reduced battery life (not a big issue to me) and the keyboard. I like the reduced travel, but it can "clog".. if they fix that, I prefer its design overall.
- dzhiurgis 9y ago
  To me, the only downside is trackpad - it's too large and palm rejection ain't working perfectly. Keyboard is better, screen is better, ports and touchbar - neutral.
  - petercooper 9y ago
    I felt similarly about the trackpad in the first few weeks but somehow the problem seems to have "gone away". I'm suspecting this is some sort of unconscious physical adaptation on my part..
    - bhk 9y ago
      Apparently I can't adapt. Spurious touch events while typing are incredibly frustrating on my 2016 MBP. I love the display and the size and weight but overall I'm a bit disappointed in my $3600 purchase.
      - mgkimsal 9y ago
        $3600 was a lot. Too much for me, and i returned mine, and got a refurb 2015. Almost same CPU speed, longer battery life, quieter keyboard, more usable trackpad, retina screen. You can get refurb 2016 models now for ~$2500 - a better deal, but the 2016 changes - I just don't know who asked for them. I couldn't type in the same room as someone else without them being aware of it - that's just... a big problem (in my eyes/ears). I will probably end up getting one of these 'newer fangled' models at some point, if only for faster CPU, eventually, but I was quite disappointed in the 2016 model, as were many of the long-time Mac users I know.
graeme 9y ago
I bought this in 2016 for an urgent project, just before the update. I had planned to buy the new MBP when it came out, figuring it would result in the same great form factor, but faster. When the new Macbook pro came out, I just kept my old one. Apple lost a guaranteed $4000 sale. Why didn't I upgrade? I needed the ports for audio/video work, I didn't need the touch bar. I needed an SD card and HDMI. I would have had to buy an awful amount of dongles just to use the laptop. I'm going to hang on the the 2015 version until it is obsolete, or until something better comes out.
GolDDranks 9y ago
I just bought a lightly used 2012 model to use as my home laptop. I have been using the 2016 model at work for a little over half a year now. I prefer the older one. I might prefer a 2015 model even more, but the 2012 is almost as good; close enough to perfect.
merb 9y ago
the magesafe2 was bad ;( I've been trough ~5 adapters since I bought the late 2013" in early 2014
pascalxus 9y ago
And best of all, it might even last a long time without breaking down. Since it has an SSD, those can last 10 years+.
blhack 9y ago
This makes me so sad. My laptop is a tool that I use for close to 12 (maybe even more!) hours per day. Every single day. It is the tool I use more than any other tool. It is such an important part of my life. It's so important that it work well. I remember when I got my first MBP (it was a 2010 model). I had long been a linux user, and getting the mac was something I had done begrudgingly. I remember how the little LED on the front would fade (not blink!) on and off. I thought it was really cool. I heard a story (maybe from here, actually?) that the apple engineers studied the way that humans breathe when they're sleeping, and modeled the fade after that. When I told this story to one of my friends (a long time mac user) she just laughed and said "Welcome to mac, Ryan.". I can't imagine a "welcome to mac" story like that one anymore. The only version of "welcome to mac" I can think of is Apple seemingly crippling their own hardware. Can't use your headphones on their $1000 (!) phone? Welcome to mac! Can't plug anything USB into your laptop without an adapter? Welcome to mac! Can't even plug your $1000 phone into your $1500 laptop made by the same company without an adapter? Welcome to mac! The new MBPs are just such a downgrade. I totally get why they dropped the optical drive when they did. Online/flash storage was getting cheap enough and ubiquitous enough that it was a real replacement for CDs. This is not the case with USB-C, evidenced by the fact that apple doesn't even use it on their own consumer electronics yet (!!!). The new macs are really pretty. I do not understand and probably will never understand their hardware design decisions.
- relyio 9y ago
  Same story here. I had used a mix of Fedora/Debian with a custom window manager for the longest time. Then reluctantly got a macbook and had a great user experience. I used to love Macbooks, now I hate them with passion.
- NovaS1X 9y ago
  I was in your spot also. Had an x200/x201 hybrid running Arch. Dropped it on concrete from 6' in a server room one day sending it to the morgue. I was in the anti-apple camp until my work offered me a replacement of either a MBPr or an X1 Carbon. I made the switch to the MBPr because of the 16:10 screen (I can't stand 16:9 in a laptop). My god was that an eye opening experience. I'm still on my 4 year old 13" MBPr and it works flawlessly. It's easily the best consumer computing product I've ever used/owned. Everything is thought out so well. The new macs have so much that I like, but the touchbar, the new keyboard, the dropping of the sd-card slot (hobby photographer here), and the dropping of magsafe seem like huge regressions to me. Everything else is great. I firmly support the USB-C switch. The new chassis is amazing, the new P3 display, and TB3 put it close to perfection. Apple is so, so, close to making the perfect laptop again. Give me a quad core 13" MBPr with no touchbar, improve the keyboard, and return magsafe and the sd-card slot and I'll dish out the money. Until then, my amazing 2014 MBPr will continue to be my daily driver.
on_and_off 9y ago
Isn't it also the revision that removed the possibility to easily upgrade the RAM & storage ? Personally, this is when I started seeing the MBP derails from my needs. Culminating (so far) with the touchbar. Even after a couple of month with it, its disadvantages run deeper than its advantages.
vermaden 9y ago
Nope. The best laptop is the one with 7 row keyboard, like ThinkPad T420. While Macbooks have nice aluminium body and are very light and thin they are far from being 'the best'.
- RachelF 9y ago
  and Thinkpads also didn't have a glossy, reflective screen.
  - mbakke 9y ago
    I'm typing this from a ThinkPad T420, but was expecting the x200 or (actually) the Titanium Macbook Pro 12" ("TiBook"). Give me a modern-day laptop with 4:3 aspect ratio or even 1:1 and a matte screen and I'll be yours for life. I probably should have gone for the Chromebook Pixel while it was available.
- spalt 9y ago
  Correct
- sjellis 9y ago
  I think that the aluminium body, crisp display, and the blessed silence win it for the Mac, otherwise I would have said ThinkPad T420 as well. I don't even remember that the MacBook that I am typing this from has a fan unless I really brutalize it with a software compile. The classic ThinkPads were definitely something special, though: this MacBook has a good keyboard, but it's no ThinkPad keyboard, and I absolutely loved that retro style case design.
chrisparton1991 9y ago
Reparability is the main downside to the retina MPBs for me. With my old MBP I could swap out the battery in 30 seconds, and I could upgrade the RAM. Neither of these are possible any more. That said, I'm still using my 2012 retina MBP and it's going great. These things are built to last!
- dzhiurgis 9y ago
  > Neither of these are possible any more. People in China are replacing memory modules on iPhones. I'd say you just don't have enough skill to.
- bluedino 9y ago
  Upgrade-ability forced me to selle mine last year. I had on of the low-end models with 8GB/256GB and needed more space and memory.
  - chrisparton1991 9y ago
    That's a bummer. It makes me sad that we have to stop using hardware that's 90% fit for purpose because we can't upgrade the 10% we need to.
sdfh238 9y ago
I have two issues with the 2017 MacBook Pro work gave me, versus my 2015 at home. USB-C Touchbar Otherwise, I dig the keyboard and larger touchscreen, and the rest is the same. My guess is the Touchbar is a UX experiment I'd prefer they just ditch the UI they're moving and enable keyboard shortcuts to respond to notifactions
temporallobe 9y ago
I have a 2015 MBP I use for work. It is indeed everything that folks say it is, except that I absolutely hate the magsafe. Any little provocation pops that damn thing right out. I'm actually not a fan of the new MBP but thank God they removed that nonsense.
holografix 9y ago
I loved my MBPr when it came out, had it for years abd then decided to buy a refreshed model basically for faster wifi and because I could. Suddenly I learned that the SAME version of my mac but newer cost the same and REMOVED the dGPU. I was flabbergasted... why the HELL would I pay the same money to lose the dGPU. That day I had to abandon the mac and I got a Surface Book. The new line of Macbooks with their poorer battery life, silly keyboards and overdosed trackpads made me feel less like I was missing something. First mac was the Macbook “white” one of the forst intel ones. Magical is the only word I have. The breathing sleep led, the orange/green charging indicator. The button on the underside which would light up a simple gauge indicating battery level. The media remote control. The terminal with Python and C installed out of the box. I mean it was way way way beyond anything you could buy and although more expensive it was worth every penny. Just doesnt feel like that anymore. The new macbooks just cost too much and the features dont feel like an improvement.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  How are you liking the surface book? I was on the fence, and... to get the model I'd want, it's still > $2k - not something I'm going to just randomly grab to try out for a bit. But... the build quality seems very 2015 MBP, and as the specs improve, I'm tempted. Perhaps that'll be a 2018 upgrade? Any downsides you've hit in switching? I do a lot of work with intellij/phpstorm, vagrant/vms - I'm assuming there wouldn't be any substantive changes in those. Also, some of the WSL/ubuntu stuff in win10 looks promising too.
apple4ever 9y ago
Completely agree. I use a 2015 model for work, and its glorious. Another engineer got a 2017 MBP, and its TERRIBLE.
pier25 9y ago
A year ago I needed to upgrade my MBP and went for the 2015 model without a doubt. I wrote about it here: https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fad...
burntrelish1273 9y ago
"Best?" really? - Glued in batteries - Difficult to repair, especially the poorly-manufactured logic board - No Kensington security slot - Soldered in RAM This is why I still use an 13" A1278 non-Retina from 2012: 2x SSD's, 16 GiB of RAM, SD slot and KS slot. It's a little thick but sturdy, not the fastest CPU but it's solid. The latest MBP's have unreliable logic boards and Apple's repair policies result in massive charges for binning whole boards instead of repairing cheap components. For such reasons, the "best" macOS laptop these days is arguably a hackintosh Lenovo such as T440 or P50s. - Spill-resistant, awesome keyboard - Nearly unbreakable - Upgradable with commodity parts - Repairable - Crazy-long battery life - Necessary ports included It doesn't make sense to go with over-priced, soldered-in components that lack sufficient repairability.
- grzm 9y ago
  > "Best?" really?" > "It doesn't make sense…" People are definitely entitled to their opinions, and any definition of "best" is going to be based on what one's priorities are. It's clear your priorities and Marco's aren't the same, which is fine. The incredulity you express here is really unwarranted.
- ctack 9y ago
  I'm using the same laptop and do like it, but I find my battery life is not that great. How are you optimising battery life?
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
that being said I could see myself upgrading in two years or so
bfrog 9y ago
I love my X220. Still do!
bearbearbear 9y ago
I've had a 15" Macbook Pro since late 2013. It was perfect in every way. It never crashed, it was never slow and it had GNU tools built right in, but out of the way so I could enjoy the simple and practical UI. Then one day my X key started missing a keystroke now and then. Later it started missing strokes. Then after a while it started to input 'x' when I wasn't pushing the key once in a while. Eventually the entire computer became unusable because as soon as it powered on it would start to repeatedly ghost type the letter X, resulting in the OS disabling the X key at boot. So I took it to the Apple store. "They'll just pop the key off and replace it, maybe clean out under it" I thought. "Worse case scenario I'll have to pay $20 for a new keyboard." Haha no. Apple wanted $400 to fix the X key because they refused to simply fix one key. And they refused to simply replace the keyboard. No, the only way they would fix it would be to replace the entire lower deck and that would cost $400. I had no choice. I needed my computer for business because all of my work depended on it. So I gave the $400. My computer came back and it worked great for a while, about 8 months. Then one day the G key started to miss a keystroke once in a while. I think you know where this is going. I continued to use the computer until the G key completely failed and began to ghost type G all the time. This time I didn't have $400, so the broken key rendered my computer completely useless because my disk unlock password had the letter G in it, rendering the OS unbootable. Even using an external keyboard didn't work because when the OS disabled the letter G at boot it disabled it on both the internal and the external keyboard. So now I have a computer rendered useless by poverty. If it was a Lenovo laptop, I would have called Lenovo and they would've overnighted me a free replacement keyboard, which I would have replaced myself in five minutes by removing a few screws, swapping it out and replacing the screws (I've done it on several Lenovo laptops). I have a perfectly usable Macbook Pro sitting there in the corner rendered unuseable by a single broken key.
jonbeebe 9y ago
I have a 2016 MBP with TouchBar and I'm mostly happy with it. I love the quality of the screen, its the brightness, and the overall performance of the computer, and I honestly prefer macOS over any other desktop operating system. My main gripe is the keyboard. I know some don't prefer the feel, but I could honestly get used to that (I mostly use an external mechanical keyboard at my desk, but often have to use the laptop portably). However, the keys get sticky real easy and I hate having to constantly clean it/blow the keys out just so it works like normal. I think that's ridiculous for such an expensive computer. I don't experience any downsides to the TouchBar honestly (besides the annoying non-tactile ESC key), but I don't use the TouchBar for anything more than I used the function keys before (brightness, volume controls mainly) so it's really not worth the extra $$$ that they added onto for this thing. In hindsight, I probably should have went with the 2015 model. With all that said, it's the unreliability of the keyboard that bugs me the most, because this laptop should work PERFECTLY for this price (even if I don't agree with some of the decisions that were made regarding the design). If I didn't rely on macOS for work I probably would have got a Lenovo laptop instead. That makes me sad, because my first Mac was the unibody WHITE model and that was probably the best "new computer" experience I've ever had.
chis 9y ago
It is interesting just how ahead of their time these laptops were. I wonder if it's even possible to make such an innovative laptop in 2017; it seems like all the easy wins have been claimed. Also notable: they hold their value exceptionally well, even for an apple product. The 2014 model price is actually trending upwards on eBay lately.[1] https://us.bidvoy.net/macbook_pro_2014_i5/111422 https://us.bidvoy.net/macbook_pro_2014_i5/111422
mehrdada 9y ago
I like the new design better and I won’t switch to the previous version. The display alone is significantly superior. While I like the previous design and think the 2015 model is pretty great, it is important to chronicle the history as it actually occurred so let me paint some light on some not so rosy features in 2012: - MacBook Pros in 2012 almost universally had an image burn in issue (on the LG made displays) and it took Apple at least 6 month to reliably sort things out. - MacBook Pro 2012 almost universally had a dGPU problem that made the machine crash on dGPU (presumably because of solder issues). Those issues were very serious. Apple eventually did sort them out and the 2015 model is great but it is worth remembering that things take time to perfect. Issues will get fixed over time.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  They weren't design issues as much as manufacturing/parts issues, though. There's nothing to 'fix' with a missing SD card port, or missing USB-A ports. That doesn't mean they may never add them in a future release, but probably won't, as it would admit being 'wrong' (and may be less needed in a few years). I was honestly surprised at the USB-C-only approach (even though I know it's Apple's "way" to just remove stuff altogether). Having a mix of USB-A and USB-C would have made it a much more palatable transition - upgrade, use your old devices as needed, get new ones and use the new USB-C over time.
  - mehrdada 9y ago
    The poor implementation of keyboard and TouchBar are not design issues either. Add haptic feedback and TouchBar can get GREAT. I do miss SD card a little bit, but it is no big deal, and I don't get all the fuss with USB-A at all. If you have an Android, MacBook is really made for you. If you have an iPhone you just got to grab a USB-C to Lightning cable (not dongles) and get on with your file. At your desk you really need a compatible monitor/dock anyway. So they are rather obvious choices medium to long term and hardly a design flaw. You could argue about the smaller battery and lower key pitches as a potential long term prioritization issue, but I think they just get better implementations that alleviate concerns under the current form-factor.
herbst 9y ago
A fixed but fast declining battery is what I mostly remember from the hardware side, and how fucking hot it got under normal load. The dated gui and always broking developer workflows from the software side. It wasn't a bad Laptop but I would place pretty much any Thinkpad Tsomething above it in usefullness every day. Edit:// forgot the horribly glossy screen. I really like sun, not like hiding from it to see my work.
satyajeet23 9y ago
I totally agree! Though I bought my 13" non-retina MacBook Pro (mid-2012) on the day it was launched in 2012 (5 years ago!) and upgraded it with faster RAM and replaced the 750 HDD with 500GB SSD, and this machine is a beast in performance! I have used and compared it to the other latest Macs, and though I can notice the performance increase, I find it a little minimal compared to the 5-year old machine I have! The Non-Macs are not even close, not even on the list, and no, I am not saying this just because of the MacOS, I find the overall experience to be shitty. I cannot imagine using HP/Dell laptops, with that OS!
sunpazed 9y ago
I personally own the 2014 15" MBP — and would agree with the post. My work–issued 2017 13" MBP requires 2x dongles to run a dual screen setup — at a total cost of $240 — which is just ridiculous. And I have to carry one everywhere, just in-case I want to jack into HDMI (ie; visiting customer, presenting research). HDMI will be the prevailing standard for some time, and is ubiquitous.
ashildr 9y ago
I don’t see a donglegate - I’m carrying - current MacBook-Escape - 29W USB-C Power brick - USB-C Cable - USB-C to Lightning Cable (iPhones and iPad) - USB-C to HDMI/USB Adaptor I bought for EUR10
amai 9y ago
The downside: the cost for replacing a broken Retina display of the MacBook Pro are obscene.
racl101 9y ago
Agreed. I've not looked forward to new Macbooks since around that era. The new ones are just horrible and more expensive. The touchbar does zero for me. So much junk for higher price and little utility.
ksec 9y ago
We are two years in since the new MBP, and likely three years before we see a new model. ( Might not be a new design ) Very rarely have we doubt and not see the gain from an Apple transition two years in. USB-C: I dont have problem with bringing in every connection to one standard or Apple dont ship iPhone with USB-C yet. These are all timing problem that will be solved one day. I have problem with USB-C itself. The quality, standard, and execution of USB-C in the public market with lots of different standard of cables that doesn't support PD or whatever feature. It is basically shit. At the moment I just wish they make a new version called USB-D and clean things up, for both the Transfer spec and the plug. Keyboard: While most do like the bigger keys, it is still no where near as good as the old MBP. And there is a 5% chances ( The amount of new MBP repair due to Keyboard failure ) that the most important input devices on your Notebook does not work. And the repair cost $799. The 2nd revision of the Keyboard tries to solves the key travel problem by making a bigger noise, trying to trick your brain that you have typed and "felt" it. Cant we just have a extra 1mm thick MBP that has much better keyboard and cheaper to repair, or even no need to repair? TouchPad: As mentioned, no one has yet find a use case as to why we need such a large touchpad on MBP 15. Apple manage to keep the keyboard same size in both MBP, but not the touchpad. It frustrate you by various misfire from time to time, which was NEVER an issue with previous MBP. Touchbar: It is useless, and does not work 100% of the time. Which align with Apple's new Keyboard design very well. But it doesn't annoys me since I rarely use it for anything other then those default keys. Trying to work with it for 2 years, it never clicked. But I dont think any of these blog from Marco or rant in Reddit or HN matters. Tim Cook is much more of an Data / Number person. And the recent quarter shows there are more people buying the Mac then ever. I miss Steve, i think he better then anyone else understand what the users need, and when to make the call or jump. The Apple now is trying to continue that way, but it is different. And it will never be the same.
jwr 9y ago
I'm staying with my 2014 MacBook Pro 15", trying to weather the storm. Perhaps I'll be able to wait out the current "Jony Ive running rampant and unchecked" period. Perhaps next year somebody at Apple will finally speak up and say "no". Perhaps next year we will have a split between "Pro" laptops (with useful ports, useful keyboards, keys on keyboards, and without trying to achieve extreme thinness) and consumer laptops, which have an entirely different set of compromises. Today Apple is making all its products according to one specific set of tradeoffs: external out-of-the-box form over function, thinness over everything, usability comes last. This set of tradeoffs is fine for some products, but not for every product.
jason_slack 9y ago
This is the MBP I am using! I love it. I tried a new model and returned it after just 2 days.

390 points by hodgesmr 9y ago

That's what I'm using at work, and what I've got for my personal laptop too. Are the new ones that much worse? They don't seem like there at all worse to me, I've been thinking about getting one.

tolger 9y ago
I think the lack of standard ports, mag-safe, hdmi and sd card slots are big regressions in functionality. Not to mention that the touchbar is not very useful, and as an emacs user, a big pain to not have a physical <esc> key.
- BlackjackCF 9y ago
  Vim user. Mapped <esc> to capslock. But yeah, the touchbar drives me insane because I accidentally just press buttons on it all the time.
- cgore 9y ago
  I live in Emacs too. I thought you could get one with real buttons? Did they drop that?
  - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
    They make a 13" MBP without the touchbar. Except it's using the lower power 15 watt CPUs, the same category the Macbook Airs used to use. So it's basically a Macbook Air with a retina screen and a hefty price hike.
zchrykng 9y ago
In my opinion you would need to try one to know. My wife has one and the keyboard is such a far step back I can't even describe it properly. If nothing changes, I will be sticking to my 2014 or switching to Lenovo.
- cgore 9y ago
  I hate the keyboard on the 2015 era ones too though, I'm always using my giant Microsoft hump style keyboard instad. I only use the built-in keyboard in hotel rooms/conferences/etc.

hactually 9y ago

I'm using the 2017/latest Macbook Pro for work and have the late 2015 at home and I totally agree with this post. The trackpad isn't improved, the touchbar is crappy and it runs for less time and runs hotter. If any HW startup wants to do a Macbook Pro 2015 redux (maybe using an ARM core) i'd throw money at them.

pqh 9y ago
Bonus if it's all hardware with good Linux drivers.

pjmorris 9y ago

I've got one at the office, and love it. Anyone want to sell me their spare?

Skunkleton 9y ago
Sure. I will sell you my spare if you are in the bay area.
- pjmorris 9y ago
  Alas, I am not. Thanks for the offer.

blt 9y ago

I have a 2013 high end model with Nvidia graphics. I love it. If all goes well, I plan to use it at least through 2020.

chakalakasp 9y ago

As someone who just inherited one of these at work and who had never played with a MacBook before, my first thought when seeing the headline was “If it’s not a MacBook Pro 2015, I don’t know what it is”. This thing is pure functional art. The first time my screen just magically unlocked itself because I happened to be wearing a particular watch was the moment nerd-like turned into nerd-love.

majewsky 9y ago
The only thing I can think of regarding this story is how it's now an infosec hazard for you to take off your watch while showering.
- Jyaif 9y ago
  Removing the watch locks the watch, and makes it unable to unlock other devices.

HugThem 9y ago

The glossy screen is a showstopper for me.

Kenji 9y ago
This. I prefer my mirrors in my bathroom, not on my work desk.
telesilla 9y ago
I understand these work very well: https://www.moshi.com/ivisor-12#black https://www.moshi.com/ivisor-12#black (I have this wonderful macbook too, but I got used to the glare, it's not as bad as previous glassy versions)
- pizza234 9y ago
  Screen protectors work well for any size, but they need to be applied with special equipment; it's already hard to apply them without imperfections on a 5", I can't imagine doing that on a 12".
prograhammer 9y ago
The thing about glossy though is once you come out of the code editor and look at the finished product...ohhhh...it looks so good.
pizza234 9y ago
There are companies that professionally laminate screens with a (removable) matte screen protector. Once you'll laminate a glossy screen, you'll never want to go back again. I don't know in USA, but in Europe, a German company does it: http://www.tdcomponents.com/shop/displayschutz_laminierung.php http://www.tdcomponents.com/shop/displayschutz_laminierung.p...
- thijsvandien 9y ago
  The foil seems to cost around 40 EUR. What would be the total price to have them apply it for you?

Mizza 9y ago

I totally agree, but I'm not happy to see this post for the selfish reason that I'm worried it will be harder to buy a refurbished one once the one I'm currently using dies. With the exception of the non-ergonomic keyboard layout, I could keep using this machine forever and be pretty happy.

Rainymood 9y ago

I have a mid-2014 model and I absolutely love it. However, weird spots have been appearing on my screen now on the black edge and I'm kind of nervous/scared. Anyone else with these spots?

dewey 9y ago
Yep, that's the screen coating coming off. It's known as "Staingate": http://www.staingate.org/ http://www.staingate.org/ I got mine replaced for free from Apple (they even upgraded me to the most expensive model of the next generation as they didn't have my medium level one any more)
- bpicolo 9y ago
  Does it have to be under the first year or two for warranty for that? I definitely have this, but I'm 2.5 years out at this point. Edit: https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/24/retina-macbook-display-staingate/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/24/retina-macbook-display-staing... Oh my! I think I could go get a shiny fix/replacement. I am definitely going to have to do that Thanks for this post! hah

rocky1138 9y ago

It's pretty good, yeah. I really would have loved it if they simply doubled the USB ports and re-included an Ethernet jack for the newest one instead of doing what they did.

slantyyz 9y ago
That almost sounds like a unibody Macbook Pro. I'm probably in the minority here, but to me, the best laptop ever made was the 15" unibody Macbook Pro, the predecessor to the Retina (so long as we forget the gpu dumpster fire that was the early 2011 models). It had plenty of ports and had the perfect balance of portability and components that were easily upgraded by end users.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Except the new ones have USB-C, which can literally become any other port. Any one of them can become the Ethernet jack. Any one of them can become the video out. Any one of them can become the charging port.

random3 9y ago

This is the most elegant critique to the current line of Macs I've read so far. I hope it reaches the right eyes and ears. While Steve Jobs was unique, I believe Apple has the right people to continue delivering the same great products. They just need to let them do their jobs. This said, I'm looking forward to test a Pixel 2 Chromebook.

jseliger 9y ago
This is the most elegant critique to the current line of Macs I've read so far. I hope it reaches the right eyes and ears. I tried a 12" MacBook. It was a gorgeous machine and wildly fast given its size. But its trackpad is a grotesque monstrosity, and while I writing I too often activated it by accident, flinging the cursor to some distant spot by accident. Then I'd have to stop, recover, and reset. I can't figure out what usability case would mandate a trackpad that large. I returned the computer and suspect that the last generation of 13" MBPs may become "legendary," because they don't make the ginormous trackpad error.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  > I can't figure out what usability case would mandate a trackpad that large. I couldn't figure it out either. Did they have a bunch of focus group feedback saying "this trackpad is too damn small... moving my wrist 1/4" to touch the trackpad from a resting spot is way too much work, I'd rather have my wrists touching the trackpad"? That's the only feedback I can see them getting to justify it. That or... it's a general trend towards the ios-ification of mac, and pushing towards "touch interface" for everything (except, of course, on the actual screen).
- ksec 9y ago
  That is exactly the problem with current Apple, it felt like they are doing this for the sake of it, not because it is in any case better.

jordache 9y ago

>Apple still sells this model, brand new.. How? Where? I have the 2017 MBA 15" . Hate how the thing crashes all the time from using USBC peripherals... arghh..

e40 9y ago
Perhaps he meant here? https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15 https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macb...
- neonhomer 9y ago
  Looking at those laptops there's only 1 pre-2016 one currently. I have a 2013 one I got refurbished and it's going to have to last me a long time.
quwert95 9y ago
Here you are, friend: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config# https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2... If that doesn't work, go to Mac > Macbook Pro > Buy > 15" > Scroll down to the 3rd option. They come in and out of stock though.
- jordache 9y ago
  OH! that one model at the very bottom of the 15" page!?
  - quwert95 9y ago
    Exactly. They sort of hide it. I'm in IT and order these all the time for engineers and sales folks; it's much preferred over the new models. ;)

draw_down 9y ago

Wow. I guess I didn't quite realize how much Macs have backslid until he started pointing out things we don't get anymore. I still can't believe they got rid of Magsafe. Jeez.

sideproject 9y ago

Using it right now - it's... so reliable. Had zero problems. Love these zero-problem products in life (and they are not that easy to find to be honest)

eropple 9y ago
I've had problems with my 2014, but at the same time it's repairable. The screen went a bit screwy, so I opened it and replaced the LVDS cable. Right back to ticking along. Typing this on a 2012 rMBP that's still a champ.

ian0 9y ago

My first retina worked worked well for a few months. Until the screen started looking like it was being burnt by the keyboard (a now known factory defect) My second one, around a year later, had the same screen problem! Not only that, it had a logic board failure that took me months to resolve and left it practically unusable (random crashes etc). Three times to the mac store to sort this one and a multi week wait at the end for a new logic board. On both laptops: Wifi doesn't connect to half the hotspots I ask it to. Boot times become long even with a bare minimum installed after a few months of use. Charging cables have a lifespan of less than a year and cost a fortune to replace. Im a heavy user and admittedly I don't take care of my stuff as much as I could. But Id always bought macs because they were reliable and durable (My ancient powerbook is still in use) and not had any problems. Indeed - after swearing off macbook pros I had the chance to try and later buy a 2012 macbook air. Damn - it reminds me of macs of old. 5 years old and it just.. works. I couldn't be happier and am seriously considering buying another to do me when this dies. Im not sure if the tide will come back in but I think the high water mark was perhaps before the retina. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/17/apple-mbp-ar-coating-quality-program-staingate/ https://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/17/apple-mbp-ar-coating-qu...

bahmboo 9y ago

Only downsides: I have had 2 screens replaced due to delamination and this 3rd one has developed a purple line down the middle. Also picking it up with one hand on the corner can register a false touchpad click. Magsafe2 was a totally unnecessary change. Bizarre really. But all that aside it's a champ and the only reason I would replace is because of the stuck purple line.

thijsvandien 9y ago
Yes, the coating coming off was a pity. After having my screen replaced, I thought I'd have one that didn't have the same production error anymore and yet it came back. Found out too late about the extended warranty program to have it replaced a second time. All I can hope for is that my new 2015 model does have a screen that will last, but I can't find any confirmation anywhere that the issue was ever resolved...

bllguo 9y ago

I use one at work and never thought much about it. But reading this I have to agree. It simply works. I never had to think about my hardware because it silently and adequately does its job. If I owned any other Apple devices, I imagine the experience would be even better. I have an expensive Windows laptop for personal use. The much more impressive specs aside, the experience is admittedly inferior. Why is it taking so long to build a similarly seamless laptop on Windows?

synicalx 9y ago

Do we maybe need some kind of Mac-Reformation? Maybe Johnny could print this out and nail it to the front door of the new Apple HQ? (assuming it even has a front door, of course)

simonmales 9y ago
I mention to colleagues that I hope produce a MacBook Pro 'classic' line. I totally agree with the author: it is a professional machine.
- abledon 9y ago
  hopefully, a few people at APPLE read hacker news, and relay this information to more and more people in the company.... hope they realize this in 2018. - macbookpro 13" 2011 user

stillkicking 9y ago

The current MacBook Pro should've been a separate product line, like the MacBook Air was. Those who are happy with the sacrifices it makes could switch over, but they wouldn't have to leave everyone else out in the cold.

blhack 9y ago
Those should be the new "macbook"s. The pro line should carry pro features.
- 59nadir 9y ago
  Pro features like being incompatible with Apple's own products, having shorter battery time, often running hotter than the previous iterations, not having magsafe, etc.. Bringing a new meaning to "tortured artist", opening up for tortured software devs to join in a more literal sense. Why don't we look for other cool ways to make excuses for things getting worse or being bad, like saying "It's a bad craftsman that blames his tools" and other platitudes to excuse away technology that is legitimately worse than its alternatives? It's so meaningful to everyone around us when we refuse to engage in any kind of discussion about how good things are and why some things could be considered worse than others.

megaman22 9y ago

If I could get one of the late 2000s 17" MacBook Pros, but with updated internals, that would definitely be my next laptop. I know several people that bought them for college and are still chugging away with them a decade later.

lj3 9y ago
They made them as recently as 2011. Unibody aluminum. Matte or glossy screen. 1920x1200. IPS. 2.5ghz quad core i7. Ram's a little slow at PC3-1333. Those don't have replaceable batteries, but you can replace them yourself fairly easily. You can pick them up for about $1k. It's sobering, really. The only substantial improvement made to laptops in the past 6 years is battery life.
- ScottBurson 9y ago
  Yes, I'm still using my 2011 17-incher. Will be very sad when it dies.

Uhhrrr 9y ago

Disagree; it doesn't have a pointing stick.

camelCaseOfBeer 9y ago
You mean the dick nipple?

revelation 9y ago

The best laptop ever made came with not one, but two ports for an utterly failed connector standard (Thunderbolt), long since ditched? And those replaced the ubiquitous RJ45 Ethernet jack? At least they had the good sense to include HDMI and not go full TB.

bhj 9y ago
The connections are standard mini-DisplayPort, which is still very much a thing. As is the Thunderbolt 1/2 protocol over those connections (in the audio world, for example)

etchalon 9y ago

While I agree with Marco (and would add that generations Air was the best consumer laptop every produced), I always feel like it's unfair to judge the final iteration of one architecture with any other iteration of a new architecture. A lot of things had to fall in place for the RMBP to be "perfect", specifically the move away from optical, the prevalence of speed of 802.11ac, etc. The Touch Bar Pro is an equally great model, when used in a similar "perfect" world (USB-C peripherals, connected to an LG 5K). But it's a terrible model "in the field", as very few things are ready for USB-C (including USB-C in some respects).

mrtksn 9y ago

I don't know, I kind of think that the best ever is Macbook Air 2015. I would also argue that Macbook Air was the first laptop ever since it was the first truly portable - not just transportable personal computer ever. For the first time a notebook was light, performant and run long enough on battery to be actually usable out of your office or home. Yep, the screen is not retina but it's also significantly lighter, thinner and has longer battery life. The design, so perfect that hasn't changed since 2010.

pan69 9y ago
I agree. I have the 2012 model, bought new in 2013 for cheap. 8 gigs of ram with an i7. I recently had the battery replaced. I has some blemishes on the screen. Every ones in a while I'm looking at upgrading to a Mac Pro, but then again, this little laptop is still going strong, so why should I?
- Certhas 9y ago
  Exactly my experience, except I just spilled coffee on it and now the keyboard needs replacing. That's expensive and a bit hard to justify on a 5 year old machine, so I'm going to break out the screwdrivers soon and give it a go. With every previous laptop I would have just taken it as a good moment to buy a new device, but I honestly don't see the point right now.
Danihan 9y ago
Completely agree. Just bought my third one, just a perfect product in my mind.
schappim 9y ago
I completely agree with you. The battery to power balance was amazing. It really lasted all day unlike the MacBook/MacBook Pro we have today.
femto113 9y ago
I tried to like the Air but the aluminum bezel around the screen is a non-starter for me. If there has to be something around the screen it better fade into the background (like the MBP's black glass or a typical desktop monitor's black plastic).

mmgutz 9y ago

Sadly my 2013 MBP logic board died after some spilled beer. I purchased and quickly returned a 2017 15" MBP. This is not the MBP which made me switch from Windows. Apple laptops are becoming too thin at the expense of features I care about: larger battery, more diverse (HDMI and USB3) port, the mag safe connector and a longer travel keyboard. I could care less about Apple having the thinnest laptop. That's what the Air line was for.

stcredzero 9y ago

I have a 2012 13" Macbook Pro at the office. It's still going strong, and I'm still just a bit more productive on it than on my fancy schmancy Asus laptop with a GTX 1070. Since I'm running Xubuntu in VirtualBox in seamless mode, installing software for cloud/game server development is sometimes more convenient on the Asus, but I still have to deal with running a VM. The trackpad is better on the Macbook Pro. What's more, Windows 10 startup got corrupted by an update last night, and I'm still dealing with that. I've had to deal with the equivalent level of problem on the Macbook (SSD failure) but the tools that come with MacOS make that at least 5X easier. (It has been a real saga with the Windows 10 laptop, which I will leave out the details of.)

chaoticmass 9y ago

Keyboard layout makes it nigh unusable for my work, programming.

myhf 9y ago
What keys do you need that aren't on a 78-key layout?
- recursive 9y ago
  I haven't used it, but from the photo, I don't see home, end, pageup, pagedown, and backspace. (or maybe delete, but at least one of the two.) Personally, I use all those regularly.
  - myhf 9y ago
    Yeah, you have to use the function modifier for those. Function + up-arrow = page-up is easy to learn. Chords can remain easily learnable down to about 65 keys, but on a smaller layout (~40 keys), you have to memorize multiple layers for dozens of keys.
  - chaoticmass 9y ago
    ding ding ding This guy gets it. I suppose if I bit the bullet and unlearned years of muscle memory I could do without those keys, but at this point it's not worth the effort. I'll stick to ThinkPads if I need to code on a laptop.
mcphage 9y ago
That's a shame, since there are thousands of programmers who are using it for their work right now.
- recursive 9y ago
  Why would that make it a shame? There are a lot of people using tools of all kinds that are insufficient for others.

passivepinetree 9y ago

Every year I ponder getting a new laptop to replace my mid-2012 MacBook Pro. Every year I don't. Instead I wipe the hard drive, reinstall the OS, and I have a brand new machine. Even the battery is still going strong 5.5 years into ownership. This article hit the nail on the head. The laptop fulfills every need I have better than anything else I've tried.

wyclif 9y ago
Curious why you wipe the hard drive instead of upgrading. Of course, I'm fairly certain it's because you've tried that and had issues just like many users do. I'm just wondering what they are and how people justify "wipe and reinstall" (instead of updating the OS) whenever a new version of macOS is released.
- passivepinetree 9y ago
  That's absolutely why. Every time I try to just use the "Install macOS $VERSION" app, my new installation seems slow and buggy, and I swear some of my files disappear. But if I backup everything and then wipe the drive, things work perfect. I also get the additional benefit of only adding back the programs/files/settings I actually use, so I use it as a "spring cleaning" to clear out all the cruft that accumulates during the previous year.
  - wyclif 9y ago
    I get it, but how much work is it for you to add back apps and other software and how do you manage that so it takes less time? Do you clone all your settings and dotfiles in a repository?
    - passivepinetree 9y ago
      It's actually not that bad; I'd say maybe a couple of hours at most. I actually enjoy the opportunity to slim down the apps/files/etc. that I need. It's like a spring cleaning for my files. My settings/dotfiles are something I've been backing up on my external harddrive, but it would be a good project to put them into a repository somewhere and make a setup script to get everything installed just how I like it.

puppetmaster30 9y ago

I have one. Here is my next one: https://system76.com/cart/configure/lemu8 https://system76.com/cart/configure/lemu8

pan69 9y ago
Whoo. It has VGA output.
maerF0x0 9y ago
I wish they went better than 1080p screen. Everything else seems to be on point, including price.
zeveb 9y ago
If System76 would support straight Debian stable, I'd be a customer for life. I actively dislike Ubuntu, and think that supporting Debian will result in 'free' Ubuntu support, while not being noticeably more expensive to begin with.

afinno 9y ago

It's odd that this was posted as I was thinking along these lines the other day. I have a 2012 Retina 15". The first generation. I spec'd it out at the time hoping for it to last me at least a few years. From 2015 I've been eyeing off every new release of Macbook Pro thinking "yeah this time I'll upgrade" but then I realise there is actually nothing wrong with my current one. Like, nothing at all. I realise the battery is going die eventually and software updates will no longer be supported at some point, but for now it really is the best computer I've ever owned. Note: I've been on all sides of the fence (Amiga/win95->winVista/OSX) so I'm not just a fanboi.

shalmanese 9y ago
Were the issues with mouse lag on the 2012 model hardware or software related? I tried a 2012 right when it first came out and got physically nauseous from the extreme degree of mouse lag when scrolling. The 2013 never had any problems and I've been using that for the last 4 years.
- thinkythought 9y ago
  This was completely corrected in software in the next big OS release. It was HORRENDOUS at launch though. It's smooth as butter on the latest version, with the same hardware. Machine runs cooler too
- omikun 9y ago
  Definitely a software issue. I have the 2012 model and it would lag in expose. But after the metal upgrade it got a lot smoother. Still gets choppy with many apps, but otherwise smooth animations in most places.
jseliger 9y ago
but for now it really is the best computer I've ever owned. I mentioned this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15700403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15700403 regarding the 12" Macbook, but I'm baffled by the size of the trackpads on the new laptops. What's the point of having trackpads that large? It seems only to impair usability.

yoodenvranx 9y ago

For me it's the Lenovo T61 with a 14.4" 4:3 display (or any of the older 4:3 IBMs). Yes, compared to modern laptops it is heavy, slow, bulky and has a shitty display but: i) I can replace every single piece of it with a simple screwdriver and ii) 4:3 is still the best aspect ratio for reading and developing. If I am doing the latter I prefer a screen with a lot of height. A 4:3 aspect ratio gives me a tall screen while keeping the overall size of the laptop down. When DVDs became popular there was suddenly the idea that a laptop _had_ to have a 16:9 aspect ratio (e.g. "HD") and unfortunately this killed the whole idea of a laptop with a tall but narrow screen. Microsoft seems to go back to an older style with their 3:2 but I'd still love to see a modern T61 with a true 4:3 screen.

JoshMnem 9y ago
I thought it was going to be an older Thinkpad. Matte screen, great keyboard, three-button touchpad, runs Linux, and you could drop it on concrete while running with barely a scratch. (I haven't dropped one recently to test the newer models.) Also cheap next-day, at-home repair plans where they drive to your house and fix anything that is broken without asking any questions.
- RachelF 9y ago
  The matte screen is a must have for me. I dislike seeing reflections and find matte screens have way less eyestrain.
O1111OOO 9y ago
> For me it's the Lenovo T61 with a 14.4" 4:3 display (or any of the older 4:3 IBMs). Which is why I thought it was odd that he didn't even mention aspect ratio. 16:9, for example, is a deal-breaker for me personally. This limits the kind of devices I have available (and sadly, increases the price point) but I simply can't do 16:9 as I find it too constraining. My options today are 16:10 and 3:2. From a hardware standpoint, Apple's document-friendly screens on both their laptops and tablets have always been a strong selling point. Currently on a 16:10 but shopping around for a more modern 3:2/16:10 that's Linux-friendly.

sarreph 9y ago

I knew what laptop Marco would be talking about before I clicked on the link. Perhaps that says something about Marco, but I have the feeling it's almost certainly about how widely-lauded the old rMBP was, and still clearly is. Apple got so many things right with it, because all the design choices made sense, for exactly the reasons Marco gives. The design choices being made at the top of Apple no longer make sense. Take the touch-bar, for example; it was a passable idea, but flawed in execution and production. If you want another example, how about DongleGate™? The most recent USB-C trend was not handled the way Apple used to handle standards progressions. Yes, they annoyed us in the past with too many FireWire ports, and an overly-futureproofed candy drop iMac (USB)... But even then, those choices made sense because the rest of the ecosystem was thought about. This is clear when you compare it to today's offering, where you cannot plug a new iPhone into a new MacBook, out of the box! Incredible...

devdad 9y ago
I had to get a new MBP really quick, and didn't know about the USB-C. I couldn't even use it for work since none of the monitors (one Thunderbolt, one would HDMI) would plug in, my iPhone used for dev didn't fit and and my USB-keyboard was a mismatch. Such a poor implementation.
geetfun 9y ago
I really loved the 2012-2015 line of MBPs. I didn't have a 15 inch, but the 13 inch one. It'll always be my favourite as it's the perfect balance between size/portability/power/style.
- NovaS1X 9y ago
  Agreed. My dream is a 13" with a quad-core CPU and TB3. With e-gpus progressing they way there are with TB3, my laptop is very close to replacing my desktop as well.
tritium 9y ago
DongleGate™ arguably started (and was likely internally fomented) with this edition of the MacBook Pro. This was the first MacBook Pro to exclude an ethernet port, and when Desktop Support at my company handed it to me, I looked at it and asked them what the fuck was I supposed to do about it? They shrugged, threw up their hands and left (I was the prima donna that asked for the Mac, figure it out asshole), and so I limped along on guest wi-fi for a week, until figuring out that I had to buy a dongle if I wanted to use wired ethernet. Eventually snagged some from desktop IT services too, but initially, they were callous and indifferent to my plight. If anything seeing the statistics for the successful sales of this model and related essential dongle accessories, despite knee-capping ethernet, and forcing dongle adoption to replace an old, standard, widely reliable and convenient data bus standard, could only have inspired and emboldened choices like the headphone jack debacle and USB-C minimalism which still plague us even today.

thijsvandien 9y ago

I got myself the 2012 model shortly after it was introduced. Despite the obvious risk, I made an exception to the rule of never buying a 1st gen. It was simply everything I (until then) didn't know I wanted. A machine truly worthy of the Pro label, pushing the state of the art at a fair price. I was happy to spend my money. Meanwhile we lost both the quality and the fair price. It really makes me feel sour, to the point that I just bought a new 2015 model only to have the warranty that I'll have a proper MBP for three years to come. It was no more than a contingency plan; a rational decision made out of a lack of options, involving no enthusiasm at all. During that period I'll either have to find a good alternative to switch away to, or – hopefully – Apple will introduce something new that will make me want to be their customer again. Honestly, I can't say I'm optimistic about either.

SkyMarshal 9y ago
Not quite following you here, are you saying the 2015 variant is not as good as its 2012 same-model predecessor? What's the difference?
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  I'm thinking the OP meant that, when looking to upgrade, the 2015 model was the only choice left, due to the changes in the 2016 model. I'm guessing that because I came to a similar conclusion. My decision was a combination of the new design choices and price point - a refurb 2015 gave me more consistency with earlier models, while saving > $1000. There were/are positive aspects to the 2016 (I miss the touchid on the model I had for a couple weeks) but enough annoyances to make the question the value I was getting at that price point. My 2016 ended up being... $3700? Had it been, say, $2500, it would have been a no brainer to keep, even with some of the design drawbacks.
- thijsvandien 9y ago
  What I meant is that practically the only reason I upgraded* is that I don't want to risk my old one breaking when no pre-2016 model is available new from Apple anymore, which could be anytime soon. Now warranty assures me that for at least three years I'll be able to keep using the 2015 model. I can't switch to another platform all at once, or bet that my stuff won't stop working before Apple get their act together again. That's why the lack of options. *This new one isn't really worse, nor is it much better. The biggest improvement is the SSD. No more dGPU is a loss in terms of performance but a win for durability and battery life. The screen has this weird thing that something inside slides when you shake or turn it on the side (https://youtu.be/HmL7KXCMfxU https://youtu.be/HmL7KXCMfxU). Don't bother having it replaced because all have it to some extent. I suppose it doesn't affect anything but my quality perception. Everything else feels pretty much the same.

petercooper 9y ago

I feel like the odd one out. I buy a new MBP every 12-18 months (have owned all Intel generations), use my MBP for hours every day, and think the latest is by far the best. Being able to charge on either side is a big deal for me as I move around a lot, plus being able to use 30W USB-C power packs and third party chargers (e.g. Anker) without fear of fire.. a massive boon for me, especially as my phone and Nintendo Switch work on the same cables. USB-C cables fall out with little tension so have had no pre-MagSafe style accidents so far. The touchpad is better than my 2016, the touchbar is almost pointless to me but no worse in operation, and it runs way cooler and quieter - the past two generations used to burn my legs and were noisy. The only downsides are reduced battery life (not a big issue to me) and the keyboard. I like the reduced travel, but it can "clog".. if they fix that, I prefer its design overall.

dzhiurgis 9y ago
To me, the only downside is trackpad - it's too large and palm rejection ain't working perfectly. Keyboard is better, screen is better, ports and touchbar - neutral.
- petercooper 9y ago
  I felt similarly about the trackpad in the first few weeks but somehow the problem seems to have "gone away". I'm suspecting this is some sort of unconscious physical adaptation on my part..
  - bhk 9y ago
    Apparently I can't adapt. Spurious touch events while typing are incredibly frustrating on my 2016 MBP. I love the display and the size and weight but overall I'm a bit disappointed in my $3600 purchase.
    - mgkimsal 9y ago
      $3600 was a lot. Too much for me, and i returned mine, and got a refurb 2015. Almost same CPU speed, longer battery life, quieter keyboard, more usable trackpad, retina screen. You can get refurb 2016 models now for ~$2500 - a better deal, but the 2016 changes - I just don't know who asked for them. I couldn't type in the same room as someone else without them being aware of it - that's just... a big problem (in my eyes/ears). I will probably end up getting one of these 'newer fangled' models at some point, if only for faster CPU, eventually, but I was quite disappointed in the 2016 model, as were many of the long-time Mac users I know.

graeme 9y ago

I bought this in 2016 for an urgent project, just before the update. I had planned to buy the new MBP when it came out, figuring it would result in the same great form factor, but faster. When the new Macbook pro came out, I just kept my old one. Apple lost a guaranteed $4000 sale. Why didn't I upgrade? I needed the ports for audio/video work, I didn't need the touch bar. I needed an SD card and HDMI. I would have had to buy an awful amount of dongles just to use the laptop. I'm going to hang on the the 2015 version until it is obsolete, or until something better comes out.

GolDDranks 9y ago

I just bought a lightly used 2012 model to use as my home laptop. I have been using the 2016 model at work for a little over half a year now. I prefer the older one. I might prefer a 2015 model even more, but the 2012 is almost as good; close enough to perfect.

merb 9y ago

the magesafe2 was bad ;( I've been trough ~5 adapters since I bought the late 2013" in early 2014

pascalxus 9y ago

And best of all, it might even last a long time without breaking down. Since it has an SSD, those can last 10 years+.

blhack 9y ago

This makes me so sad. My laptop is a tool that I use for close to 12 (maybe even more!) hours per day. Every single day. It is the tool I use more than any other tool. It is such an important part of my life. It's so important that it work well. I remember when I got my first MBP (it was a 2010 model). I had long been a linux user, and getting the mac was something I had done begrudgingly. I remember how the little LED on the front would fade (not blink!) on and off. I thought it was really cool. I heard a story (maybe from here, actually?) that the apple engineers studied the way that humans breathe when they're sleeping, and modeled the fade after that. When I told this story to one of my friends (a long time mac user) she just laughed and said "Welcome to mac, Ryan.". I can't imagine a "welcome to mac" story like that one anymore. The only version of "welcome to mac" I can think of is Apple seemingly crippling their own hardware. Can't use your headphones on their $1000 (!) phone? Welcome to mac! Can't plug anything USB into your laptop without an adapter? Welcome to mac! Can't even plug your $1000 phone into your $1500 laptop made by the same company without an adapter? Welcome to mac! The new MBPs are just such a downgrade. I totally get why they dropped the optical drive when they did. Online/flash storage was getting cheap enough and ubiquitous enough that it was a real replacement for CDs. This is not the case with USB-C, evidenced by the fact that apple doesn't even use it on their own consumer electronics yet (!!!). The new macs are really pretty. I do not understand and probably will never understand their hardware design decisions.

relyio 9y ago
Same story here. I had used a mix of Fedora/Debian with a custom window manager for the longest time. Then reluctantly got a macbook and had a great user experience. I used to love Macbooks, now I hate them with passion.
NovaS1X 9y ago
I was in your spot also. Had an x200/x201 hybrid running Arch. Dropped it on concrete from 6' in a server room one day sending it to the morgue. I was in the anti-apple camp until my work offered me a replacement of either a MBPr or an X1 Carbon. I made the switch to the MBPr because of the 16:10 screen (I can't stand 16:9 in a laptop). My god was that an eye opening experience. I'm still on my 4 year old 13" MBPr and it works flawlessly. It's easily the best consumer computing product I've ever used/owned. Everything is thought out so well. The new macs have so much that I like, but the touchbar, the new keyboard, the dropping of the sd-card slot (hobby photographer here), and the dropping of magsafe seem like huge regressions to me. Everything else is great. I firmly support the USB-C switch. The new chassis is amazing, the new P3 display, and TB3 put it close to perfection. Apple is so, so, close to making the perfect laptop again. Give me a quad core 13" MBPr with no touchbar, improve the keyboard, and return magsafe and the sd-card slot and I'll dish out the money. Until then, my amazing 2014 MBPr will continue to be my daily driver.

on_and_off 9y ago

Isn't it also the revision that removed the possibility to easily upgrade the RAM & storage ? Personally, this is when I started seeing the MBP derails from my needs. Culminating (so far) with the touchbar. Even after a couple of month with it, its disadvantages run deeper than its advantages.

vermaden 9y ago

Nope. The best laptop is the one with 7 row keyboard, like ThinkPad T420. While Macbooks have nice aluminium body and are very light and thin they are far from being 'the best'.

RachelF 9y ago
and Thinkpads also didn't have a glossy, reflective screen.
- mbakke 9y ago
  I'm typing this from a ThinkPad T420, but was expecting the x200 or (actually) the Titanium Macbook Pro 12" ("TiBook"). Give me a modern-day laptop with 4:3 aspect ratio or even 1:1 and a matte screen and I'll be yours for life. I probably should have gone for the Chromebook Pixel while it was available.
spalt 9y ago
Correct
sjellis 9y ago
I think that the aluminium body, crisp display, and the blessed silence win it for the Mac, otherwise I would have said ThinkPad T420 as well. I don't even remember that the MacBook that I am typing this from has a fan unless I really brutalize it with a software compile. The classic ThinkPads were definitely something special, though: this MacBook has a good keyboard, but it's no ThinkPad keyboard, and I absolutely loved that retro style case design.

chrisparton1991 9y ago

Reparability is the main downside to the retina MPBs for me. With my old MBP I could swap out the battery in 30 seconds, and I could upgrade the RAM. Neither of these are possible any more. That said, I'm still using my 2012 retina MBP and it's going great. These things are built to last!

dzhiurgis 9y ago
> Neither of these are possible any more. People in China are replacing memory modules on iPhones. I'd say you just don't have enough skill to.
bluedino 9y ago
Upgrade-ability forced me to selle mine last year. I had on of the low-end models with 8GB/256GB and needed more space and memory.
- chrisparton1991 9y ago
  That's a bummer. It makes me sad that we have to stop using hardware that's 90% fit for purpose because we can't upgrade the 10% we need to.

sdfh238 9y ago

I have two issues with the 2017 MacBook Pro work gave me, versus my 2015 at home. USB-C Touchbar Otherwise, I dig the keyboard and larger touchscreen, and the rest is the same. My guess is the Touchbar is a UX experiment I'd prefer they just ditch the UI they're moving and enable keyboard shortcuts to respond to notifactions

temporallobe 9y ago

I have a 2015 MBP I use for work. It is indeed everything that folks say it is, except that I absolutely hate the magsafe. Any little provocation pops that damn thing right out. I'm actually not a fan of the new MBP but thank God they removed that nonsense.

holografix 9y ago

I loved my MBPr when it came out, had it for years abd then decided to buy a refreshed model basically for faster wifi and because I could. Suddenly I learned that the SAME version of my mac but newer cost the same and REMOVED the dGPU. I was flabbergasted... why the HELL would I pay the same money to lose the dGPU. That day I had to abandon the mac and I got a Surface Book. The new line of Macbooks with their poorer battery life, silly keyboards and overdosed trackpads made me feel less like I was missing something. First mac was the Macbook “white” one of the forst intel ones. Magical is the only word I have. The breathing sleep led, the orange/green charging indicator. The button on the underside which would light up a simple gauge indicating battery level. The media remote control. The terminal with Python and C installed out of the box. I mean it was way way way beyond anything you could buy and although more expensive it was worth every penny. Just doesnt feel like that anymore. The new macbooks just cost too much and the features dont feel like an improvement.

mgkimsal 9y ago
How are you liking the surface book? I was on the fence, and... to get the model I'd want, it's still > $2k - not something I'm going to just randomly grab to try out for a bit. But... the build quality seems very 2015 MBP, and as the specs improve, I'm tempted. Perhaps that'll be a 2018 upgrade? Any downsides you've hit in switching? I do a lot of work with intellij/phpstorm, vagrant/vms - I'm assuming there wouldn't be any substantive changes in those. Also, some of the WSL/ubuntu stuff in win10 looks promising too.

apple4ever 9y ago

Completely agree. I use a 2015 model for work, and its glorious. Another engineer got a 2017 MBP, and its TERRIBLE.

pier25 9y ago

A year ago I needed to upgrade my MBP and went for the 2015 model without a doubt. I wrote about it here: https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fad...

burntrelish1273 9y ago

"Best?" really? - Glued in batteries - Difficult to repair, especially the poorly-manufactured logic board - No Kensington security slot - Soldered in RAM This is why I still use an 13" A1278 non-Retina from 2012: 2x SSD's, 16 GiB of RAM, SD slot and KS slot. It's a little thick but sturdy, not the fastest CPU but it's solid. The latest MBP's have unreliable logic boards and Apple's repair policies result in massive charges for binning whole boards instead of repairing cheap components. For such reasons, the "best" macOS laptop these days is arguably a hackintosh Lenovo such as T440 or P50s. - Spill-resistant, awesome keyboard - Nearly unbreakable - Upgradable with commodity parts - Repairable - Crazy-long battery life - Necessary ports included It doesn't make sense to go with over-priced, soldered-in components that lack sufficient repairability.

grzm 9y ago
> "Best?" really?" > "It doesn't make sense…" People are definitely entitled to their opinions, and any definition of "best" is going to be based on what one's priorities are. It's clear your priorities and Marco's aren't the same, which is fine. The incredulity you express here is really unwarranted.
ctack 9y ago
I'm using the same laptop and do like it, but I find my battery life is not that great. How are you optimising battery life?

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

that being said I could see myself upgrading in two years or so

bfrog 9y ago

I love my X220. Still do!

bearbearbear 9y ago

I've had a 15" Macbook Pro since late 2013. It was perfect in every way. It never crashed, it was never slow and it had GNU tools built right in, but out of the way so I could enjoy the simple and practical UI. Then one day my X key started missing a keystroke now and then. Later it started missing strokes. Then after a while it started to input 'x' when I wasn't pushing the key once in a while. Eventually the entire computer became unusable because as soon as it powered on it would start to repeatedly ghost type the letter X, resulting in the OS disabling the X key at boot. So I took it to the Apple store. "They'll just pop the key off and replace it, maybe clean out under it" I thought. "Worse case scenario I'll have to pay $20 for a new keyboard." Haha no. Apple wanted $400 to fix the X key because they refused to simply fix one key. And they refused to simply replace the keyboard. No, the only way they would fix it would be to replace the entire lower deck and that would cost $400. I had no choice. I needed my computer for business because all of my work depended on it. So I gave the $400. My computer came back and it worked great for a while, about 8 months. Then one day the G key started to miss a keystroke once in a while. I think you know where this is going. I continued to use the computer until the G key completely failed and began to ghost type G all the time. This time I didn't have $400, so the broken key rendered my computer completely useless because my disk unlock password had the letter G in it, rendering the OS unbootable. Even using an external keyboard didn't work because when the OS disabled the letter G at boot it disabled it on both the internal and the external keyboard. So now I have a computer rendered useless by poverty. If it was a Lenovo laptop, I would have called Lenovo and they would've overnighted me a free replacement keyboard, which I would have replaced myself in five minutes by removing a few screws, swapping it out and replacing the screws (I've done it on several Lenovo laptops). I have a perfectly usable Macbook Pro sitting there in the corner rendered unuseable by a single broken key.

jonbeebe 9y ago

I have a 2016 MBP with TouchBar and I'm mostly happy with it. I love the quality of the screen, its the brightness, and the overall performance of the computer, and I honestly prefer macOS over any other desktop operating system. My main gripe is the keyboard. I know some don't prefer the feel, but I could honestly get used to that (I mostly use an external mechanical keyboard at my desk, but often have to use the laptop portably). However, the keys get sticky real easy and I hate having to constantly clean it/blow the keys out just so it works like normal. I think that's ridiculous for such an expensive computer. I don't experience any downsides to the TouchBar honestly (besides the annoying non-tactile ESC key), but I don't use the TouchBar for anything more than I used the function keys before (brightness, volume controls mainly) so it's really not worth the extra $$$ that they added onto for this thing. In hindsight, I probably should have went with the 2015 model. With all that said, it's the unreliability of the keyboard that bugs me the most, because this laptop should work PERFECTLY for this price (even if I don't agree with some of the decisions that were made regarding the design). If I didn't rely on macOS for work I probably would have got a Lenovo laptop instead. That makes me sad, because my first Mac was the unibody WHITE model and that was probably the best "new computer" experience I've ever had.

chis 9y ago

It is interesting just how ahead of their time these laptops were. I wonder if it's even possible to make such an innovative laptop in 2017; it seems like all the easy wins have been claimed. Also notable: they hold their value exceptionally well, even for an apple product. The 2014 model price is actually trending upwards on eBay lately.[1] https://us.bidvoy.net/macbook_pro_2014_i5/111422 https://us.bidvoy.net/macbook_pro_2014_i5/111422

mehrdada 9y ago

I like the new design better and I won’t switch to the previous version. The display alone is significantly superior. While I like the previous design and think the 2015 model is pretty great, it is important to chronicle the history as it actually occurred so let me paint some light on some not so rosy features in 2012: - MacBook Pros in 2012 almost universally had an image burn in issue (on the LG made displays) and it took Apple at least 6 month to reliably sort things out. - MacBook Pro 2012 almost universally had a dGPU problem that made the machine crash on dGPU (presumably because of solder issues). Those issues were very serious. Apple eventually did sort them out and the 2015 model is great but it is worth remembering that things take time to perfect. Issues will get fixed over time.

mgkimsal 9y ago
They weren't design issues as much as manufacturing/parts issues, though. There's nothing to 'fix' with a missing SD card port, or missing USB-A ports. That doesn't mean they may never add them in a future release, but probably won't, as it would admit being 'wrong' (and may be less needed in a few years). I was honestly surprised at the USB-C-only approach (even though I know it's Apple's "way" to just remove stuff altogether). Having a mix of USB-A and USB-C would have made it a much more palatable transition - upgrade, use your old devices as needed, get new ones and use the new USB-C over time.
- mehrdada 9y ago
  The poor implementation of keyboard and TouchBar are not design issues either. Add haptic feedback and TouchBar can get GREAT. I do miss SD card a little bit, but it is no big deal, and I don't get all the fuss with USB-A at all. If you have an Android, MacBook is really made for you. If you have an iPhone you just got to grab a USB-C to Lightning cable (not dongles) and get on with your file. At your desk you really need a compatible monitor/dock anyway. So they are rather obvious choices medium to long term and hardly a design flaw. You could argue about the smaller battery and lower key pitches as a potential long term prioritization issue, but I think they just get better implementations that alleviate concerns under the current form-factor.

herbst 9y ago

A fixed but fast declining battery is what I mostly remember from the hardware side, and how fucking hot it got under normal load. The dated gui and always broking developer workflows from the software side. It wasn't a bad Laptop but I would place pretty much any Thinkpad Tsomething above it in usefullness every day. Edit:// forgot the horribly glossy screen. I really like sun, not like hiding from it to see my work.

satyajeet23 9y ago

I totally agree! Though I bought my 13" non-retina MacBook Pro (mid-2012) on the day it was launched in 2012 (5 years ago!) and upgraded it with faster RAM and replaced the 750 HDD with 500GB SSD, and this machine is a beast in performance! I have used and compared it to the other latest Macs, and though I can notice the performance increase, I find it a little minimal compared to the 5-year old machine I have! The Non-Macs are not even close, not even on the list, and no, I am not saying this just because of the MacOS, I find the overall experience to be shitty. I cannot imagine using HP/Dell laptops, with that OS!

sunpazed 9y ago

I personally own the 2014 15" MBP — and would agree with the post. My work–issued 2017 13" MBP requires 2x dongles to run a dual screen setup — at a total cost of $240 — which is just ridiculous. And I have to carry one everywhere, just in-case I want to jack into HDMI (ie; visiting customer, presenting research). HDMI will be the prevailing standard for some time, and is ubiquitous.

ashildr 9y ago

I don’t see a donglegate - I’m carrying - current MacBook-Escape - 29W USB-C Power brick - USB-C Cable - USB-C to Lightning Cable (iPhones and iPad) - USB-C to HDMI/USB Adaptor I bought for EUR10

amai 9y ago

The downside: the cost for replacing a broken Retina display of the MacBook Pro are obscene.

racl101 9y ago

Agreed. I've not looked forward to new Macbooks since around that era. The new ones are just horrible and more expensive. The touchbar does zero for me. So much junk for higher price and little utility.

ksec 9y ago

We are two years in since the new MBP, and likely three years before we see a new model. ( Might not be a new design ) Very rarely have we doubt and not see the gain from an Apple transition two years in. USB-C: I dont have problem with bringing in every connection to one standard or Apple dont ship iPhone with USB-C yet. These are all timing problem that will be solved one day. I have problem with USB-C itself. The quality, standard, and execution of USB-C in the public market with lots of different standard of cables that doesn't support PD or whatever feature. It is basically shit. At the moment I just wish they make a new version called USB-D and clean things up, for both the Transfer spec and the plug. Keyboard: While most do like the bigger keys, it is still no where near as good as the old MBP. And there is a 5% chances ( The amount of new MBP repair due to Keyboard failure ) that the most important input devices on your Notebook does not work. And the repair cost $799. The 2nd revision of the Keyboard tries to solves the key travel problem by making a bigger noise, trying to trick your brain that you have typed and "felt" it. Cant we just have a extra 1mm thick MBP that has much better keyboard and cheaper to repair, or even no need to repair? TouchPad: As mentioned, no one has yet find a use case as to why we need such a large touchpad on MBP 15. Apple manage to keep the keyboard same size in both MBP, but not the touchpad. It frustrate you by various misfire from time to time, which was NEVER an issue with previous MBP. Touchbar: It is useless, and does not work 100% of the time. Which align with Apple's new Keyboard design very well. But it doesn't annoys me since I rarely use it for anything other then those default keys. Trying to work with it for 2 years, it never clicked. But I dont think any of these blog from Marco or rant in Reddit or HN matters. Tim Cook is much more of an Data / Number person. And the recent quarter shows there are more people buying the Mac then ever. I miss Steve, i think he better then anyone else understand what the users need, and when to make the call or jump. The Apple now is trying to continue that way, but it is different. And it will never be the same.

jwr 9y ago

I'm staying with my 2014 MacBook Pro 15", trying to weather the storm. Perhaps I'll be able to wait out the current "Jony Ive running rampant and unchecked" period. Perhaps next year somebody at Apple will finally speak up and say "no". Perhaps next year we will have a split between "Pro" laptops (with useful ports, useful keyboards, keys on keyboards, and without trying to achieve extreme thinness) and consumer laptops, which have an entirely different set of compromises. Today Apple is making all its products according to one specific set of tradeoffs: external out-of-the-box form over function, thinness over everything, usability comes last. This set of tradeoffs is fine for some products, but not for every product.

jason_slack 9y ago

This is the MBP I am using! I love it. I tried a new model and returned it after just 2 days.