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I'm the OP - surprised to see this at the top of HN today, but happy to post a quick update: My wife and I have been happily married for ten years now. She lov

• denzil_correa 10y ago
  There's a nice article by Priceonomics on Diamonds. http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bullshit http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-b...
• ZoeZoeBee 10y ago
  Congrats on the solid decade together with your wife, happy to hear you're doing well. I was wondering why in the ten years since your posting I hadn't come across much moissanite in jewelry, until I found out Charles & Colvard had a patent on it until the last year. Really looking forward to how jewelrs will use these now that moissanite is off patent and startups like the Diamond Foundry have interesting approaches as well. http://www.racked.com/2016/6/14/11872830/lab-grown-diamonds-synthetic http://www.racked.com/2016/6/14/11872830/lab-grown-diamonds-... After decades of glimpses into the practices of DeBeers, maybe now will be the time the public becomes fully aware
• jakewins 10y ago
  Wife and I had read the Atlantic article before it was too late, went with plain wedding bands for both of us. However, living in America, this is causing issues for her, continuously having to explain to friends and acquaintances why she does not have a diamond. We'd been looking for used rings as an alternative - hence, thank you very much for writing this, you just saved me and my wife several thousand dollars.
  • dom0 10y ago
    I had no idea that this could possibly be a thing.
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  • stephencanon 10y ago
    > having to explain to friends and acquaintances why she does not have a diamond. I don't think this is a universal "in America" thing. Maybe in some parts of the country, but here in the northeast it seems like it's none of their business; I can't imagine asking someone to explain it, and I would think someone who did ask was being awfully nosy. FWIW my wife has a diamond ring which she almost never wears, and I can't remember anyone ever asking about it. My parents wear plain gold wedding bands only, and I've never heard anyone ask them about it either.
    • jakewins 10y ago
      That's absolutely fair, I should know better than to generalize like that. We live in rural Missouri, which is probably why the social pressure is what it is. Sorry about Trump, BTW.
    • ScottBurson 10y ago
      My wife and I, living in the SF Bay area and having no regard for convention whatsoever -- and not really liking diamonds -- went with a sapphire for her ring. She tells me that other women do sometimes ask her about it. This is unfathomable to me, but there it is.
      • shawndumas 10y ago
        same area; we went with ruby. they ask her about her ring all the time... though she reports never feeling judged.
    • snuxoll 10y ago
      Fuck, my wife and I are in possession of my parents gold (+small diamond) band and rings and wore them during our courtroom marriage ceremony - but we switched to tungsten rings with a carbon fiber inlay because the gold was too fragile and the wife kept scratching everything (including our daughter) with the diamond. We're much happier with $20 disposable rings (both of us have lost one already); no fear of loss or damage and it gets the point across fine- hell, when I proposed to her I didn't even have a ring, we would have done it this way in the first place.
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• ziszis 10y ago
  We came to a similar conclusion. Although we had already bought a diamond ring. After researching, we figured out that we could sell our diamond (we only got about 60% of the original price back from a diamond broker) and buy a twice as large synthetic diamond and still save several thousand $. There is only upside as far I can tell: it looks better (clarity), is bigger (no can tell the difference between a real and "fake" diamond), has fewer environmental and ethical externalities, and is cheaper.
  • zaroth 10y ago
    I'm sorry about the 40% haircut. Any jeweler worth doing business with should refund a ring minus the cost to set it. Diamonds cannot be used, as there is no such thing as a new one. Certainly they can be damaged but that's totally different. I figure if you buy something a billion years old and return it a few months later in exactly the same condition, if you can only get 60% back then you dramatically overpaid.
    • retsibsi 10y ago
      It's a very impressive example of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy, though. I think a lot of people would be unwilling to cop that 'loss', even if they realised it would leave them better off overall. (Or perhaps more realistically, they would be unable to admit to themselves that it would leave them better off.)
  • ryuker16 10y ago
    You could just buy used diamonds
• randlet 10y ago
  Thank you! It was your website that convinced us to go with moissanite in 2008! I owe you a beer or 12 :)
• ejcx 10y ago
  I sent this to my SO and she now wants one instead of a diamond. Until now, it's been non-negotiable. Thanks for writing. I did not want to buy a diamond :)
  • lacampbell 10y ago
    > Until now, it's been non-negotiable. I really hate to be a random person on the internet giving personal advice but... diamonds being "non-negotiable" seems like a huge, glowing, neon warning sign. Don't be surprised to find out a bunch of other things are non-negotiable if you divorce.
    • ejcx 10y ago
      Wow. It's very difficult to respond to you civically. We've been together for a long long time. It is amazing what people you don't know on the internet will assume about you. There was no alternative before this article. Cubic is cheap and tacky. Diamonds are overpriced and awful. Lab diamonds not much better. This article has a real alternative. That's a huge contribution to all diamond haters everywhere.
      • lacampbell 10y ago
        Right, I read that as your SO dictating to you that you must give her a diamond. My apologies.
        • tukelully 10y ago
          I think you were in the right and didn't really assume as much as suggested. I got the same impression particularly because of the language chosen. "non-negotiable" implies that there was a second party to necessitate negotiation. Saying "no alternative" would come closer to describing a personal taste threshold.
          • ejcx 10y ago
            Non-negotiable was a bad choice of words. It's been very negotiable. She just really didn't want cubic because of the perception, like someone else had noted. It's just a little ridiculous to read 3 sentences a stranger types and tells them they are going to get a divorce. Bad form as far as unsolicited advice goes.
• silencio 10y ago
  From a fellow moissanite fangirl, thank you for writing this up! I always enjoy telling people my ring isn't a diamond, but the essay is more compelling to share with folks that can't see moissanite in person. I have a 1ct moissanite and 2 3mm white sapphires in my ring, and the bonus was that custom designing my own ring was still _drastically_ cheaper than getting a diamond: http://i.imgur.com/H3jDulz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/H3jDulz.jpg
  • ddoolin 10y ago
    That is a very beautiful ring. Thanks for sharing the photo!
  • Normal_gaussian 10y ago
    Custom design ring. Plus earrings. Plus necklace. Plus manband. I think I can now (by that I mean in the future) justify this by not having diamonds. Yours looks amazing.
    • silencio 10y ago
      I was on vacation and missed your reply! Funny you say that. My partner got a custom band of his own too (engraved and anodized titanium): https://i.imgur.com/c08efTs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/c08efTs.jpg The diamond ring he was "supposed" to get me (according to my family and friends and DeBeers) is easily over 10x the cost of my ring+band plus his band combined - even without comparison shopping. We spent that excess money on a 2 week honeymoon, most of our wedding expenses and splurges, and cat food. I recently just added the two white sapphires (a nod to our currently baking bun) for pocket change too. No regrets. I get my shiny bling-desires fulfilled at bargain bin prices.
• NegatioN 10y ago
  Seems like the link to the article about de beers is 404. Hopefully it still exists somewhere :)
  • lukateake 10y ago
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you...
• Roritharr 10y ago
  Thanks for writing this. My problem is only that you consider mosanite inexpensive, which is relative to Diamonds true, but from a ring search i could only find nice looking ones for >1000€ which is still expensive/hardly affordable to me.
  • chucky_z 10y ago
    Try the second-hand market, and buy the stone you like, and the ring you like (sperate). It's extremely in-expensive (usually included in the cost of the ring if you buy it at a store) to have your stone set into the ring of your choice. I spent a total of $500 to have a .75ct diamond set in a ring this way.
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    • Nullabillity 10y ago
      $500 is still an insane price for a glorified lump of coal.
      • chii 10y ago
        Compared to the wedding, 500 dollars is nothing.
        • Grishnakh 10y ago
          Not if you get married in Vegas at a chapel with a small handful of family members. It's still a fraction of that cost, but a reasonably-large fraction (maybe 1/10 at most, instead of 1/100).
        • zeroer 10y ago
          Don't over-generalize. I got married for a total price of about $700. One can be frugal if one decides that saving money is a priority.
        • 10y ago
• fizixer 10y ago
  Would you confirm or deny my two hunches: - Lab-grown diamonds are purer, more perfect crystals, cheaper, and better than mined diamonds in every way. (ignoring the market manipulation factor, which I'm not too knowledgeable about, except that I've heard big diamond companies do some shady things to keep prices high) - Girls hate lab-grown diamonds because they consider them "artificial". Also in your article, you don't seem to make such a distinction, so I'm wondering if your article is about lab-grown, mined, or both?
  • ziszis 10y ago
    1st assumption is correct. 2nd assumption is incorrect. My wife was perfectly happy in particular with the environmental and ethical benefits. Also doesn't hurt that you can get a larger diamond that looks much better. Give your girl the benefit of the doubt.
  • dllthomas 10y ago
    Regarding the second, that's very much the angle DeBeers marketing has been trying to push. In practice, it will be true of some girls and not true about others. FWIW, I agree that "science and the progress of human knowledge" isn't exactly the right symbolism for a wedding ring. But I do think it's better than "blood and oppression", at least given my personal views on marriage...
  • daveguy 10y ago
    I think a lot of women would now prefer a perfect diamond over a dirty ground diamond.
  • atomical 10y ago
    Lab grown diamonds are still too expensive.
  • thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > Lab-grown diamonds are purer, more perfect crystals, cheaper, and better than mined diamonds in every way. (ignoring the market manipulation factor, which I'm not too knowledgeable about, except that I've heard big diamond companies do some shady things to keep prices high) This is completely correct, although in the absence of De Beers mined diamonds would be cheaper. (Creating diamonds is technically quite difficult, but they are very common in nature.) > Girls hate lab-grown diamonds because they consider them "artificial". I can deny this. I collect synthetic cut gemstones. There are three types of common reactions: 1. "It looks fake." 2. "What are you going to do with it? What's the point?" 3. "Wow, it's beautiful!" I've never seen someone who thought a gem was beautiful decide they'd been wrong after learning the stone was created. Girls might dislike synthetic diamonds in engagement rings because they think the symbolism is wrong; they don't dislike them in general. > in your article, you don't seem to make such a distinction, so I'm wondering if your article is about lab-grown, mined, or both? The OP is talking about lab-grown moissanite: >> The big difference between moissanite and diamond is that moissanite can be manufactured reliably and efficiently in a laboratory. The result: flawless, brilliant gemstones at about 1/10th the cost of a comparable diamond.
• joering2 10y ago
  I'm not, especially that this article was very popular not so long ago [1]. After a while on HN you can figure which subjects they like, and which they don't. Diamond are yes subject. Another example could be Leonard Cohen. His recent departure has so much to do with technology or hacking as your toilet seat, but yet he was #1 for a long time... [1] https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bullshit https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bulls...
• bitmapbrother 10y ago
  Not all diamonds are "blood" diamonds nor are they all associated with DeBeers. Canadian diamonds are conflict free and environmentally sourced.
• jseliger 10y ago
  No one has ever thought it was anything other than a diamond ring I recently bought a ring from Diamond Foundry after reading this: http://qz.com/630512/would-you-propose-with-a-diamond-grown-in-a-lab/ http://qz.com/630512/would-you-propose-with-a-diamond-grown-... and related articles, and AFAICT no non-specialist can tell the difference. There is also an interesting online company called My Trio Rings (http://www.mytriorings.com http://www.mytriorings.com) that does conventionally mined diamonds but has, AFAICT, lower than average prices. I think one of their guys posts to HN sometimes.
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• iaw 10y ago
  I have a diamond ring I need to get rid of. Next time the need arises I'm going moissanite and platinum which will have a much better melt value.
• korethr 10y ago
  I find the arguments in your essay compelling. Are there any particular resources you'd recommend to someone wanting to educate himself further about moissanite?
• swang 10y ago
  sorry to attach this to the top post, but how do you actually pronounce moissanite? "moist"(sans 't') + "a" + "night"?
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  • vbrhjajcn 10y ago
    You are correct. You can hear how it's pronounced in this YouTube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GFZKPQuAaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GFZKPQuAaw Sol: No, it's a moissanite. Bad Boy Lincoln: A what-in-ite? Sol: A moissanite is an artificial diamond, Lincoln. It's Mickey Mouse, mate. Spurious. Not genuine. And it's worth... fuck-all. :)
    • jk563 10y ago
      Reading the first two lines made be expect a pronunciation clip in a language series on YouTube (blocked on the corp network). Then I saw Sol and Bad Boy Lincoln. I guess I'll watch Snatch tonight. For educational reasons.
• kristianp 10y ago
  Why would you get a silicon carbide stone, when you can get a manufactured diamond? Also, are other natural stones, e.g. sapphire, ruby, overpriced as well? There's a spelling error in the article: lusterous -> lustrous.
• takeda 10y ago
  Why there's N/A for toughness in Cubic Zirconia?
• chevas 10y ago
  This 10 year follow up is invaluable.
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• zeroer 10y ago
  Thanks for writing this. I'm glad people are pushing back against the insanity of the diamond marketing. But you're still buying into the concept of the gifting of rings, when this is a recent phenomenon created by De Beer's. Unless they were European royalty, your great-great-grandparents did not exchange rings. Commoners did not have this custom until the twentieth century. When you suggest getting non-diamond rings, you perpetuate the expectation that people should exchange rings, continuing De Beer's advertising campaign. My wife and I got married without exchanging any rings for this reason. I thought that I might need to explain my position on rings to friends and family, but we've never gotten so much as a comment about it. (BTW, your link to the Atlantic article 404s.)
  • spbaar 10y ago
    This site isn't trying to upend the artificial customs that we've come to cherish, just to substitute one costly part of it with a cheaper indistinguishable alternative for all the reasons he described
    • zeroer 10y ago
      Sure. That's why I opened by thanking OP.
  • bzbarsky 10y ago
    > Commoners did not have this custom until the twentieth century It really depends on the culture. Having the groom give the bride something of value is a quite old tradition for Jewish weddings, including "commoners" (read: all Jews, pretty much). A ring was in fact a quite common such gift going back a long way. That said, if a ring is used in this case it must traditionally be a plain band with no stones; we're not talking diamond rings here.
• NetOpWibby 10y ago
  Should have commented under your comment! Here's my post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12949728 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12949728
• lobo_tuerto 10y ago
  Question: Did you buy your ring at Charles & Colvard? (I want to know if that is a trustworthy site to place an order.)