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Ask HN: I will help your startup in exchange for food and a place to stay

584 points by codeornocode 11y ago

Hello, This my third and final time posting this post, first time it was labeled as spam and the second time someone suggested that i edit it and so i did. I have 4 years remaining in my U.S visa, each visit i can stay 6 months, i don't want to break any U.S rules that's why i want to code for your startup for no money, just food and a place to live in transportation would be nice too but i am not going to take money from you and i am not going to ask your for health insurance or be your employee, i don't want to break any rules, i have +8 years of experience in JS, PHP, Ruby mainly as a full stack web developer i also do game development using Unity3D + C#, i'm a Musician since over 15 years at my free time and i can design sounds and soundtracks i work with many DAWs, i'm bilingual i speak fluent Arabic and English beside having many more skills. I am doing this because i live in a war torn country, some issues happened and i've lost all my savings, I'm 31 years old and i don't want to spend the rest of my life in this place, i've been to California in 2014 and i loved it so much, i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree although i have a high school diploma and a college diploma in business management and e-commerce. If you'd like to interview me please send me an e-mail to life.will.get.better.2016@gmail.com, thank you. Thank you for reading my post. ps: Please if you can't help me at least try not to be negative in the comments i already have enough negativity going on in my life and i could really really use some motivation, but after all you are free to write whatever you want of course and i appreciate it. One more thing, thank you "dang" for telling me about the spam filter and helping me.

logicrime 11y ago
Best of luck to you, friend! Hearing of all the things you have learned and have experience in leads me to believe that many startups would miss out if they overlooked you. You sound awesome.
- codeornocode 11y ago
  Thank you for your kind words :D
Zombieball 11y ago
Not trying to be negative, but my understanding has always been that U.S. immigrations doesn't care whether or not money exchanges hands. If you are doing work that a U.S. citizen would normally get paid for you are still technically "taking a job" from a local. While I am sure there are conditions that will allow you to come and stay in the country, I would be careful what your arrangement is with any potential startup and how it is worded. Perhaps another individual on HN has more insight into U.S. visa rules and can provide better guidance? Good luck nonetheless!
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  I also very much hope you find some way of working things out, but there is another thing you should be aware of: > just food and a place to live in transportation would be nice too but i am not going to take money from you and i am not going to ask your for health insurance or be your employee, i don't want to break any rules There is a good chance that, as well as raising immigration law issues, this arrangement could also cause your non-employer to violate federal and state minimum wage laws. I second the advice of others who suggest consulting an immigration attorney. This is a challenging and important problem, and it really demands the advice of a professional. If you don't think you can afford one you should: 1) schedule an initial consultation with a good immigration attorney anyway. You should get at least this first conversation for free. (And beware: there are many truly awful immigration attorneys. Do a little research.) 2) Look to see if there are any law schools in your area that have immigration law clinics. They may well take your case for free and, although you will be assisted by law students, they will be supervised closely by faculty and will probably provide you with very good advice. Good luck.
  - wpietri 11y ago
    Yep. Not paying people properly for work is a crime. I know in California that's a big deal. See, e.g., the crackdown a couple years back on "interships" that were just free jobs. And my guess is that immigration authorities would see food and lodging as payment, meaning both employer and employee would be violating the law. However, I don't think there's anything illegal about paying an independent contractor who's living in another country. So my suggestion to codeornocode would be to find some sort of work in the US that could be done remotely from some safe third country. Immigration authorities care a lot about displacement of their own citizens, but in the places I've lived they don't give a hoot about somebody who is on a working vacation.
rabbyte 11y ago
Best of luck to you, I'm sorry for where the system has gotten in the way. If I could, I would offer.
- codeornocode 11y ago
  Thank you
mayank 11y ago
Please consider having at least an initial consultation with an immigration lawyer before trying to do this. The initial consult is usually a 20-30 minute phone call and is offered for free by many attorneys. Your intentions are good, but it would be sad if you were blacklisted by immigration for any reason.
rokhayakebe 11y ago
Hey, what kind of visa do you currently have?
- codeornocode 11y ago
  I have a B1/B2 visa
  - rokhayakebe 11y ago
    Some examples of legitimate and temporary business activities that people have conducted on a B-1 visa are: attending business conferences and meetings conducting independent research, such as feasibility or marketing studies engaging in “start-up” activities (for example, exploring U.S. investment opportunities) Source: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-visits-the-us-do-you-qualify.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-v... So it would be legitimate if the work you are doing is to research business opportunities. Also book every relevant conference and convention in the area that you can go to and attend each, get business cards, develop contact. As far as you know, you are here researching future opportunities to set up a great business and create jobs in the U.S..
    - tim333 11y ago
      Here's a potential sort of loop hole. Set up a software development business back in your home country (or another country, non US). It doesn't have to be much - maybe a bank account and a couple of your developer friends as would be contractors for it. Then in the US you can legitimately use your "Business Visitor Visas (B-1) - ... to consult with business associates, ... or negotiate a contract" http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/VisaFlyer_March_2014_print.pdf http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/VisaFlyer_March_20... So you can chat to startups and offer to get stuff written for them by your company abroad. They can legally pay your company and your company can pay you a salary while traveling. I think all the above is legal. Not really legal but very hard to catch is you could actually write some of the code yourself in your room or a cafe in California if the friends back home don't do it. If immigration get on to you it would be hard to prove you are working rather than just mucking about on the laptop. On the other hand if you are in a work situation in an office then they will assume you are working illegally. The above has an advantage that if you do well it may actually turn into a real business.
arihant 11y ago
If you have 8 years of experience, wait till you get 9 years. If you do, then even if you have a year of college, you can qualify for H1B. Typically, 3 years of experience equals 1 year of college. As is popular myth, a college degree or education is not a requirement that is set in stone for H1B. Also, money or not, if you're working in US in capacity that usually someone would get compensated for, even for a company outside the US, you need to have work permit in the country. If I were you I would look for jobs within Middle East like Qatar, UAE. Jobs related to tech are there, US universities are there, and the requirements with immigration are basically "if employer wants you get in." Rack up a few years of experience, then getting H1B would be viable.
- codeornocode 11y ago
  Thank you for your help and information.
- coryl 11y ago
  How do you prove that you have 9 years experience?
  - blm 11y ago
    You might have to give them contact details for bosses for each of the positions. At least that is what I had to do.
    - oalders 11y ago
      Which can be problematic if some of your 9 years have been spent with the company where you are currently employed.
      - kybernetyk 11y ago
        Or you have run your own business or have been a self-employed freelancer. Proving experience without employment contracts is really hard to impossible.
idibidiart 11y ago
Hi, I like you and your tenacity. Why don't you ask it differently so all those annoying comments trying to "help" you would stop. What I'm thinking is this: "hey guys, Does anyone have a fun side project I could hack on? Would you also be so generous as to have a couch for me at your place and host me for couple of weeks or whatever time?" I can't imagine why such a proposal would have any illegal implications as long as you're presence in this country is legal. You can also qualify the "side project" as non-commercial and "hobby" Does that make any sense whatsoever in your situation? Anyway, best of luck. I really hope things get better. Take care.
- codeornocode 11y ago
  Thank you a lot.
- jack9 11y ago
  The tricky bit is that he needs official employment to get back in to the US, as I understand it.
iamcurious 11y ago
Talk to a lawyer that actually knows the stuff. Also, if the situation looks that bleak regarding the U.S, please consider another country that gives you a better legal standing. Broaden your search. There is more to the world than North America and Europe.
jpgvm 11y ago
If the US visa doesn't work out try going to a country with less archaic immigration law. i.e anywhere else. Specifically Australia, Canada, Germany all have working holiday visas which are flexible and would let you do this sort of thing. Generally anything to do with the US and visas is a bad day.
- matthewrudy 11y ago
  I would suggest Singapore too. Great emerging startup scene, very quick to get working visas.
- marquis 11y ago
  Working holiday visas are not permitted once you reach 31. You must apply and enter the country before you are 31, I believe (it may be 30).
phantom_oracle 11y ago
Have you tried applying for refugee status? I don't know if you'd be allowed to work, but instead of taking grants from the US as a refugee, you could maybe convince them that you are a skilled-refugee who is leaving your war-torn country and you would like to work instead of being given a handout. Something tells me that the red-tape in the US won't allow this, but it is worth a shot, especially if you speak to an immigration lawyer about it.
gmazzotti 11y ago
Why U.S.? I understand that you don´t want to live in your country, but there are many others countries. Many of them has a much flexible immigration system where you can live legally if you find a job and where there are many jobs opportunities if you know how to code. I mean, instead of working almost illegally for free in the U.S., you can be legally and earning good money in another country. I´m from Uruguay and this will work here (also, you will have health insurance, as it is mandatory in any job of any type. Also, it is common that tech companies hire forgeries that don´t know Spanish, as most people know English, is not a problem). I know that this is also the case in many other countries.
- hackaflocka 11y ago
  On paper Uruguay has an amazing proposition for potential immigrants (and loved your ex-President with his humble lifestyle). However, only about 3,000 immigration visas are being granted each month from what I've heard, which is way lower than the demand for them.
  - zzleeper 11y ago
    Given that UY has 1% of the US's population, 3,000 visas is actually a lot (equivalent to 3.6 million visas per year in the US)
    - deleted 11y ago
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      - markvdb 11y ago
        467*10^3 immigrant visas, not 10^6!
  - notNow 11y ago
    Can you tell please more about the immigration and work outlook and prospects in Uruguay? I have very limited info about Uruguay and I appreciate it if someone could help me and provide more details about the situation there
meric 11y ago
If U.S. doesn't work out, give Australia a try, a lot more lenient.
- bayesianhorse 11y ago
  Unless you are granted asylum and therefor have to live in a prison camp...
  - incompatible 11y ago
    The refugees in the prison camps haven't been granted asylum.
    - bayesianhorse 11y ago
      That's not true. Even those who are granted asylum have to live in these camps and are not allowed to live in Australia. "You will not make Australia your home." Also, holding children in prison camps unfit for human habitation, because they have not been granted asylum status, isn't that much better.
  - meric 11y ago
    That only applies to refugee unable to afford a plane ticket...
rtpg 11y ago
I'm not in the US, but some people here are. What about working on some open source projects? I don't think that would fall into the danger zone of immigration law(since you wouldn't be working "for" anyone). Alternatively, maybe a company here can offer you an internship? The visa requirements could be less. Does anyone here know an immigration lawyer that could help this person get out of a bad situation?
steven2012 11y ago
Unfortunately this is most certainly in violation of immigration laws. And chances are at some point, you will be banned from entering the US for a minimum of 10 years. I actually know 2 people that this happened to, one of them a personal friend of mine. Immigration/Customs officials do not need proof to ban you, all they need to do is suspect it. If you enter the US with no plan, no money, etc, they will suspect, rightfully so, that you are working in violation of your visa and you will get banned on the spot, especially if you visit so often. My suggestion is to not do this. Enter as a tourist and enjoy your time in the US. If you want to work in the US, do it legally. Do work on an open source project and try to network and get a job that that way. Maybe try to join a huge company like Google or Facebook from abroad and transfer. That's your best way, especially if you get an L1 visa.
- bobosha 11y ago
  I suspect you are on a BUsiness (B-1?) visa and what you propose to do, even if no cash exchanges hands is considered compensation and therefore employment. As others have pointed out, you could end up in serious trouble with US immigration authorities- the 10 year ban is just the beginning, it could end up with a lifetime ban! It is just not worth the risk and definitely not someone of your caliber needs to. There are other countries where you could fare better. Perhaps Canada?
- rokhayakebe 11y ago
  You may be wrong: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-visits-the-us-do-you-qualify.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-v....
currentoor 11y ago
If you're from a war torn country have you considered applying for asylum? I know cases were asylum was granted to guys from my old country, India, which is by no means a war torn country. I'm going through the immigration process right now and everyday Canada looks like a good option. I know it's not the US but it's still an awesome western country and has a reasonable immigration system. Good luck!
- msutherl 11y ago
  Highly recommend Canada ... Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal all have decent (albeit small) tech scenes and are great places to live.
codeornocode 11y ago
I didn't expect this to be #1 post this is kind of you people, I would love to thank everyone who posted and is posting midway replying to comments with "Thank you" i found out i'd be spamming the comments in here, so this is a huge THANK YOU to everyone who wrote and will write.
- faithfone 11y ago
  Congrats on the repost. You may want to include more detailed contact information in your profile. All the best to you!
blrgeek 11y ago
Have you considered India? While a work visa is not likely to be easy, the current tech scene has huge demand for programmers of all kinds. Especially if you're expert in Unity/Full-stack. If it'll help, let me know here, and I'll connect you to someone in this very area (game programming, Unity SDK programming). Other options would be Canada, Mexico, Vietnam, or anywhere else you can work remotely. For visa details see http://www.immihelp.com/nri/indiavisa/employment-visa-india.html http://www.immihelp.com/nri/indiavisa/employment-visa-india....
- deleted 11y ago
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- sandGorgon 11y ago
  definitely post to https://www.facebook.com/groups/delhistartups/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/delhistartups/ or https://www.facebook.com/groups/blrstartups.connect/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/blrstartups.connect/ If you want any more information about India - dont hesitate to mail me. It's a great startup ecosystem and great food. Yes, we have our shit - but fairly democratic and good opportunities can be had in general. Tech work in India can be used as a stepping stone to the middle east, Singapore or the US.
maehwasu 11y ago
Email sent. Let's get the ball rolling and see what you've got.
hamza001 11y ago
http://googler700.blogspot.com/ http://googler700.blogspot.com/
hamza001 11y ago
http://googler700.blogspot.com/ http://googler700.blogspot.com/
rainereli 11y ago
Hey USA is not the only place in the word where you can develope your self, with that CV to can try India , China , Shangia places where you can find a LOT of opportunities.
zkhalique 11y ago
I am not 100% sure about the rules, but I think work for free is still considered work. If you have a tourist visa, you are not allowed to work for a client in the USA, even for free. If you have all this time, why not develop an app and sell it on the internet? You can always say you're working for your own company back home.
jedanbik 11y ago
I wouldn't want to hire you because I wouldn't want to get in trouble. I also wouldn't want you to get in trouble. There are alternatives being discussed here that would allow a win/win instead of a lose/lose: pick a different country, get another year of experience, and play by the rules.
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davnicwil 11y ago
You seem a highly skilled and driven individual whose talents would be savoured, and rewarded with good money, by many companies in many different countries around the world. Do not work for free. Once more, please, do not work for free. 1. You don't have to work for free, far from it. You have in-demand skills and experience in a global job market. You can make really good money in many, many desirable locations around the world. 2. I would be extremely wary of anyone who would take you up on the basis you're proposing. Anyone who would give you such 'charity'[1] may have very questionable morals - 'oh sure, I'll take this desperate[2] man's skills, make potentially a LOT of money off of him without giving him his due reward, and that's completely fine with me, because that's what he said he wanted'. Imagine the sort of person who would utter such a sentence - do you want to tie your livelihood for the next however many years to such a person? I'm sure you know, there is a whole class of criminal activity in developed countries which exploits illegal immigrants based around this very premise. DO NOT put yourself on that path. 3. Never put yourself at the mercy of any one person or organisation for your survival. Your current situation is awful, but what kind of life would that be to move to? How will you feel waking up in a morning in a bed someone is letting you sleep in, eating some food they gave you for breakfast, then going to work all day only to guarantee an evening meal and bed when you return home. Repeating every day for a long time. That is not a life. [1] That's what they might justify it as, at least. The reality is the opposite. [2] I really don't mean to offend here, I know that's not what you are, at your core. But that's how they will see you, and that's the position you will put yourself in and indeed what you will become by following such a path.
- crypted 11y ago
  Thanks, what an inspiring reply.
- rattray 11y ago
  I don't think `davnicwil` is wrong here, but I do think it's overly negative. A lot of immigrants through the course of history have fled truly terrible situations and ended up in pretty bad situations where they were disadvantaged, but at least able to get their feet on the ground and build something up. I agree that I would guess you can do better, especially looking at other countries (there are so many out there! and wonderful people everywhere). But worse comes to worse, don't be afraid that the sky will fall down on you if you can't find better than this arrangement. Just keep working hard and leaping for better (and do keep your eyes peeled as there absolutely could be people who would take advantage of you).
GigabyteCoin 11y ago
I knew a guy who was hasseled entering the US with some tools because he planned to do renovations on his own house that he owned outright. The border guards said that unless he was a citizen or had a work visa then he was not allowed to work on fixing up his own house, and would have to hire a local to do it. tl;dr working for "just food and a place to live" is still technically working, and unless you have permission to do so it would be risky for all parties involved.
- homakov 11y ago
  > then he was not allowed to work on fixing up his own house Then tourists are not allowed to cook and must go to restaurants, and coding for open source is also illegal? I think guards were wrong.
  - tim333 11y ago
    There's a grey area. Making your own bed is ok. Renovating a series of houses to sell on isn't. It's not totally clear where the boundary is but I think the guards have some discretion.
rebekah-aimee 11y ago
Look up this organization called "World Relief." They might take you on and help you with visa troubles. This is definitely in their department and they're super nice people; I volunteered with one of their families for a while. Good luck; we're rooting for you.
yadavrakesh 11y ago
Please consider India as one possibility - I have good connections and can help you if interested. Yadav.rakesh (at) gmail No need to work for free - definitely not when you know how to program and build systems. We don't seem to have enough of those. Good luck.
jonsterling 11y ago
I don't think this is even legal; I'm sorry for your situation, but you must see that if this sort of thing were allowed, it would pave the way for slavery.
RomanPushkin 11y ago
What you can do is to move to country like Ecuador (Cuenca, let's say) or Thailand, or Indonesia (Bali), or Phillipines. It's relatively easy to live there on a long term. You can find a job on oDesk (upwork now). I did it before, I earned $3K/month and worked 5 hours a day only. It's a good money for these countries (well and for US too). Just work remotely, live there, save money. One day you'll find a job and will legally move to U.S. (seems like you'll be qualified after 9 years of professional experience).
- technomancy 11y ago
  If you want to work in Indonesia or Thailand you need a local company to sponsor your visa and work permit, which makes remote work tricky. In years past you used to be able to just leave the country every 60 days or whatever and hop right back over the border, but you can't get away with that these days. Doesn't make any sense, but that's how it is.
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alongtheflow 11y ago
Try O-1 Visa. O-1 visa is getting more popular as an alternative to H-1B. O-1 visa does not require a university degree, and I think you have a good shot depending on how well you put yourself out there. http://www.quora.com/O1-Visa http://www.quora.com/O1-Visa
seanccox 11y ago
You should consider traveling to the US on your visa and then applying for refugee status: http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees You can contact the Helsinki Citizens Assembly or the International Organization for Migration for advice.
seikatsu 11y ago
There is quite a lot of US visa related guesswork going on in this thread - please do seek expert advice. In my experience the application and compliance problems look much less scary when you talk to someone who does this every day. Lawyers are expensive, but try: http://teleborder.com http://teleborder.com (YC startup) And on the global search for alternatives, should US not work out, here's some overview data of 110 most startup-friendly cities in the world: http://my.teleport.org/ http://my.teleport.org/ -- and a mobile app for searching among them: http://teleport.org/mobile http://teleport.org/mobile (visa data layers coming soon, too, but dozens of other cost & quality of life criteria already there)
paulhauggis 11y ago
Many people here talk about how 'terrible' the US is as a country. Yet, we see people like the OP trying everything in his power to get into the country. It should really put things into perspective.
freeslugs 11y ago
codeornocode best of luck man.
bayesianhorse 11y ago
Consider coming to Germany. Berlin has a nice startup scene and both English and Arabic speaking communities. I don't know how easy it is to get a Visa in your particular situation!
titomc 11y ago
I am an Indian national on H1B with a top company in US. By all means please do not come to US with H1B. The U.S. has broken immigration system. My visa is locked down to my employer and I cannot ask for a raise or get promoted. I accepted the lowest payment as per DOL from my employer just to stay and work in US with my 6 year H1B validity. By all means apply for a Canada work visa. They have now something called Express Entry system. You can also apply for permanent residency. US immigration system is broken and they are not going to fix it anytime soon. Immigrate to Canada. H1B is indentured servitude. I have started my Express Entry application and very soon I will say goodbye to US , I don't mind the cold in Canada. I will have freedom to change jobs, won't be an indentured servant. I will also get permanent residency fast. US green card for Indian citizen is around 10 years backlogged. I suggest it's best for you to apply for the Canadian Express Entry for skilled workers.
- burnte 11y ago
  I'm sorry you're having such a bad experience here, I really am. As an American, you're right, our immigration system is horribly broken; ten years for a green card is average for most immigrants, if not fast for many. US firms, especially tech firms, use H1B to do exactly what you said, acquire people who are effectively indentured servants. Don't like it? Go back to your home country. Don't want to accept the bottom-basement pay? Someone else will, there are plenty of non-Americans to exploit! And at the same time they lobby the Congress for an increase in H1B visas claiming there aren't enough US workers, they send out ads asking for ten years experience in HTML5 and CPU design, offering $30k for an "entry level" position, and say they can't find anyone here to fill it. Of course not, your requirements are insane and the wage is equally insane. Yes, there are plenty of companies using H1B ethically, but for every ethical H1B, there are 5 unethical ones. It's a disservice to both American workers AND foreign workers. PS: I'm not anti-immigration. I'm very much pro-immigration. What's that? You're intelligent, hard working, and want to come to my country to work your butt off and get rich? COME ON OVER! All I want is an immigration system that's fair to everyone, both those coming in to get a fair shake and have protections, and those of us already here, preventing immigrants from being used as cheap replacement labor.
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ahuja_s 11y ago
I run a startup in Singapore. There is a huge shortage of skilled developers in Singapore. Please do email me at sudhanshu@ideatory.co if you want to consider Singapore (I saw another comment suggesting Singapore). i know friends/startups looking for developers here and in Hong Kong (another option). Good luck mate!
OoTheNigerian 11y ago
Here are my suggestions. 1. Take a deep breath and be calm. It will be ok. You have a visa which is the option to move. you are in a good place already. 2. Think of the most stable (infrastructure and cost wise) country you can access visa free, go there and try getting a remote position in the US. With that, you can fun living a fairly stable life in the mean time. 3. DO NOT risk your B1/B2 by trying to trick the system. Aim for a maximum of 4 months/year in the US on it. 4. With your B1/B2 you can travel to Mexico and Turkey for a while too. Finally, DO NOT risk your B1/B2 and always have a decent reason when entering. the paper you have in your passport is merely for the CHANCE to gain entry at the immigration border and not a visa in itself. It will be ok bud!
arianvanp 11y ago
Personally, I'd go to the European Union. There are a few very good reasons: - Once you get citizenship in one country, you can freely work on any of the other countries, or move there and live there. Creating a much bigger area of opportunity for jobs. You could have citizenship in France, and work at a cool startup in Amsterdam - Though it causes a lot of political instability currently (immigrants constantly drowning in the ocean, trying to get across), getting a visa here isn't that hard, especially when you're from a conflict zone and can show you have a good chance to get a job. - Europe is pretty awesome.
- akazuba 11y ago
  I doubt schengen area is larger than US. And not all countries are easy to live in because of the non-english languages. Yes, developers can do with english only. Yet, if you are going to live somewhere or settle somewhere, you need to know the language and be a part of that society. Agree with your last point, Europe is pretty awesome.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I agree with your points, but one small nitpick: the US is almost as big as the whole EU - 300M vs. 500M citizens. So it's not much larger area of opportunity, just a little bit larger.
  - corford 11y ago
    167% the size of the US is more than a little bit, non?
    - mcv 11y ago
      Same order of magnitude. EU and US each have their pros and cons. But the EU is absolutely worth considering.
  - t0rb3n 11y ago
    Also there is no language barrier in the US.
siddarthan_sp 11y ago
Sorry to say, but I don't think what you're asking for is legal. You cannot be employed just for food/place to stay. If you need to work in the US, it's not possible with your visa (which I'm assuming is B1/B2).
jdimov9 11y ago
I broke the US rules. I worked on my student visa, got thrown around four different prisons throughout Pennsylvania and New York in the span of 30-something days and was finally deported (with airfare that I had to pay for). I was in my final year of my B.S. in mathematics program at university. I never finished my degree. All of the above is absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, THE most fortunate thing that has happened to me and I owe all of my current success to this. What I'm trying to say is - PLEASE get back your dignity. You're not a monkey, don't make any person, government or society make you think you are one.
- pavlov 11y ago
  ... I owe all of my current success to this. Can you elaborate? Sounds like an interesting story.
- harel 11y ago
  I'd love to hear that story as well, as I feel the same (minus jail/deportation). I had a green card and gave it up to move to London. One of the best moves I've made.
- nokya 11y ago
  +1 for the story :)
- bernardom 11y ago
  You kind of have to tell the story now. It sounds too interesting.
mmaunder 11y ago
It sounds like the poster is on a B1 or B2 visa which allows 6 months max stay. It's essentially a tourist visa that is issued for up to 10 years with max stay of 6 months and no right to work. It's highly likely that he will enter a few times with short stays outside the USA and then get denied entry, sent to secondary processing at an airport, questioned and be offered: A) the right to contest his case in court which will mean jail time until his case comes up or B) The option to withdraw his petition to enter the USA and catch the next plane back to his home country. Most people choose B for obvious reasons which leads to you being marched through the airport by security and put on a plane back home. What I'd very strongly recommend is to not go around offering to work for free. If you do in fact live in a war torn country and have 'lost all your savings', do what many offshore folks do and get a US company to hire you for pay and just work wherever you are and get paid in your home country. Why the "work for free" offer and why the long story? It makes companies nervous. We like to pay people for their good work whether in the USA or outside the country, but legally and above board. You should get paid too. Just posting a few data points regarding H1B stuff and immigration in general: Time varies for visa processing and 10 years is not average for most immigrants (as has been mentioned). It took me 6 months from zero to green-card and 3 years from conditional residency (green card) to full citizenship. Not H1B. So it varies according to type of Visa, where you file and your country. Wait times can be found here: https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do Microsoft brings in H1B's at a rate of 2000 to 4000 people per year into the Redmond area. http://visadoor.com/companies/microsoft-corporation http://visadoor.com/companies/microsoft-corporation Google about the same numbers, mostly into Mountain View: http://visadoor.com/companies/google-inc http://visadoor.com/companies/google-inc I'm not sure I agree about H1B being indentured servitude. I'd also add that, if your intention is to become a citizen via H1B, make sure you understand how the process works before you even apply for H1B: http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-US-citizenship-with-H1B-visa http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-US-citizenship-with-H1B-vi...
hal9000xp 11y ago
> i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree I have exactly the same problem. I'm from Russia and I don't have university degree so I can't get H1B visa right now (but I will when I have 12 years of exp). US is really hard country to get in. I relocated to Stockholm, Sweden since Sweden doesn't require university degree for work permit. Software developers are in shortage occupation list. Sweden is easiest wealthy western country to get in. If you will bored in Sweden, you can later apply to UK (as far as I understand Tier 2 General doesn't require degree either). You can get your job in Hong Kong and Singapore without university degree but it will be a bit harder. So I recommend Sweden. It's better to be normal employee in Stockholm than working for food in California. Also, don't stay for a few months in US on tourist visa. Next time they ban you to issue new visa!
- listic 11y ago
  > don't stay for a few months in US on tourist visa. Next time they ban you Are you suggesting that the U.S. immigration authorities are banning people for using visas to their capacity, for their intended purpose?
  - hal9000xp 11y ago
    YES! More precise, they don't ban you, they just don't give you a new visa. US immigration authorities use the following logic: If immigration officer has opinion that you are potential immigrant, he will refuse you a new tourist visa. Or another definition: If there is no clear evidence that you are not potential immigrant, you will be refused to get a new tourist visa. For example, people often won't get US tourist visa: 1. Who spent too much time in US on tourist visa (even if they formally didn't break their limits); 2. Who previously had a visa under "Work and Travel" program; 3. Who are young single girl; 4. Who said that he/she has relatives or friends living in US; I wasn't careful and said that I have a friend living in US. They immediately refused to give me US tourist visa! I read several hundreds interviews with US immigration officers (people posted their experience after refusal) and I think I clearly understand how US immigration authorities made their decisions. But it's too late, I did it AFTER my interview with immigration officer. I didn't want to stay in US illegally but immigration officer think so. US immigration authorities are very, very, very suspicious about Russian and Middle East citizens. BE CAREFUL WITH THEM!
s3nnyy 11y ago
If you want to optimize for money, I would recommend Zurich. It is the only place in Europe where net salaries compare to NYC or the Bay-Area. If you are interested in moving here, shoot me a mail. Alternatively, check out my blogpost on medium: "Eight reasons why I moved to Switzerland" (https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-to-switzerland-to-work-in-it-c7ac18af4f90 https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t...)
- jacobush 11y ago
  I agree but I want to bat for Sweden too. Wages are lower, but you don't have to pay for health insurance at all, all medical care is free and high quality. Also, Switzerland is not a member of the E.U. But Switzerland is great, I hear from relatives living there.
  - s3nnyy 11y ago
    "Also, Switzerland is not a member of the E.U." You're saying this as if it would be a bad thing... Also, paying 300-500 CHF per month for health insurance out of pocket might sound not to bad considering the fact that your net-salary is probably 3000 CHF higher here. (In Switzerland you pay 16-22% as income-taxes compared to 60% in Sweden).
- wallzz 11y ago
  I wonder if it is easy for non UE citezens who live in EU
thiago_fm 11y ago
I advise you try to find a job in Germany. I'm a brazilian myself and got a job here. For a skilled Ruby dev with a diploma(for a third world country, this is a requirement) you can get around here pretty easily.
- tim333 11y ago
  Also Germany has pretty much free universities if you can qualify as a resident which I guess you would if you work a few years.
fasteo 11y ago
>>>> I am doing this because i live in a war torn country I think your best option is to ask for Asylum [1] [1] http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum
killerpopiller 11y ago
I actually could use your help and would provide a nice shelter, food, salary in an awesome town here in Germany. if you are interested, let me know.
- bmir-alum-007 11y ago
  Germany also has single-payer socialized healthcare IIRC. The US has Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacare which isn't so great, and often doesn't include dental or vision care. For a long-term living situation, that's probably more important. Also, the US immigration and refugee systems are arbitrary, byzantine, gotcha minefields that can suck would-be visitors into indeterminate imprisonment or expelled for minor paperwork errors or unintentionally breaking one of a billion unclear rules.
- codeornocode 11y ago
  That sounds awesome, please contact me when you see this my e-mail is -as mentioned in the post- life.will.get.better.2016@gmail.com.
bmir-alum-007 11y ago
To help make "ends meet," it's possible to get some food, healthcare and monetary assistance from federal, state, county and city programs, often managed by each county's social services agency. Firstly, there's the Refugee Cash Assistance (RCA) program: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa/debs/calworks/Pages/refugees.aspx https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa/debs/calworks/Pages/refugee... Here are some other California refugee programs: http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/refugeeprogram/ http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/refugeeprogram/ List of other refugee programs: http://www.visaus.com/benefits.html http://www.visaus.com/benefits.html Next, food aid (food stamps) is called CalFresh (req 5 yrs of residency for noncitizens) After that, there's MediCal (state-run health insurance available at the county social services agency) (unsure of requirements) Lastly, General Assistance (emergency cash, a pittance) (only 15 days of residency is required). You can sign up for it at a local social services agency office. Here's the main website for Santa Clara county: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa (Beware of name clash: federal Social Security is also called SSA. I hear any sort of Social Security benefits usually takes a very long time and lots of paperwork to get.) GA policies: https://www.sccgov.org/ssa/general/gachap06.pdf https://www.sccgov.org/ssa/general/gachap06.pdf Other California counties' websites are listed here: http://www.counties.org/ http://www.counties.org/
ThomPete 11y ago
You should consider getting an O-1 visa.
jane_is_here 11y ago
Have you considered Canada ? It has nice people and is not as hostile to migrants as some other countries.
kevindeasis 11y ago
Oh man if you only lived in Alberta. You would def be welcome to stay at my place.
avellable 11y ago
You can apply to jobs in companies which are targeting diversity and experience like Rakuten Inc. It's in Japan one of the safest countries. If you got the appropriate experience they will hire you.
worldadventurer 11y ago
How about working for a startup tackling poverty alleviation globally, based in beautiful Cebu, Philippines? Visas here are much easier to get and the startup scene is growing rapidly. We're looking for talented full stack developers to work with Go language, Python/Django, Java, Docker, and Microservices. Our customers are doing life changing work globally, including in the Middle East. https://www.engagespark.com/about/#join https://www.engagespark.com/about/#join . And two of us co-founders based here are from the US originally.
tinco 11y ago
Why not just apply for college in The Netherlands? (I recommend NHL or if your sciencey Twente). Or Germany? You can live comfortably on a part time job and can use the degree to get into the U.S. if you want.
thobakr 11y ago
There is no future in the US, just go to other country (like Canada or something in west Europe).
davidbanham 11y ago
You may be a good candidate for an Australian visa. Not sure where it goes, but this form allows you to register your interest in becoming a skilled migrant. https://skillselect.gov.au/SKILLSELECT/ExpressionOfInterest/PreReg/Start https://skillselect.gov.au/SKILLSELECT/ExpressionOfInterest/... Also, there _may_ be nothing stopping you from living in the US but working remotely for a company in another country. That may be a good path to getting an Australian/European/other company to sponsor you for skilled migration. Best of luck!
winash 11y ago
I work in Germany, had the option to work in the US but decided against it, I find the visa regime too strict, and unless you land a great job in a great company in a good city(you don't want to live in the middle of nowhere) it's not worth the trouble. There are plenty of Jobs which you can get without knowing German, and many employers provide free classes where you can learn some basic German. IMO knowing a new language is also a very marketable skill depending on where you are from. Depending on the company you may get 25-30 paid day offs in a year. You can get paid well if you are qualified/experienced. Living costs are low as well, I live in Berlin in a spacious 3 room apartment in a great area (http://i.imgur.com/qLqzqN7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qLqzqN7.jpg). The infrastructure is amazing. My daily commute is 20 mins door to door (subway or cycle) and I don't need a car at all. My daughter goes to daycare for free, and the healthcare system though it has its quirks, works quite well. Getting a blue card is easy and with your qualifications you should be able to get it quickly, with the blue card you can travel outside the EU and come back within 12 months, no questions asked.I just took a 3-week vacation back home and plan to take another one this year. If you wanna explore some options I would be more than happy to help, drop me an email at winash@outlook.com
humbertomn 11y ago
Honestly, I think you will be more successful if you spend your time and energy looking for employers that could sponsor your visa to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc... I'm from a very remote part of Brazil and I used www.seek.com.au to get a programming job in Australia in 2008.. The company ran some remote tests with me and paid for all the relocation costs. You should try this. Also you can try to get a permanent visa even before you try to move there. You can use the Immigration Points Calculator (https://www.wannamigrate.com/tools/ https://www.wannamigrate.com/tools/) to know if you have the basic requirements for these same countries.
arunitc 11y ago
With 8 years of experience, you should be able to get a H1B. Every 3 years of experience adds 1 year to your education. You need 16 years of education to get a H1B. I too do not have a degree and managed to get a H1B. The challenge is to get through the lottery. However, as many others have suggested, I too would recommend you to try another country, where visa rules are relaxed.
greyfox 11y ago
if your a good programmer why not land a job and let the company you work for take care of the visa we employ many chinese workers at our company and they all stay here visa paid for by the company, there is some real world infactuality in your premise, any company who "would" want you to work for them for free, as a skilled worker, should also want to pay you and pay for your via.
outworlder 11y ago
> I have 4 years remaining in my U.S visa, each visit i can stay 6 months, i don't want to break any U.S rules that's why i want to code for your startup for no money, just food and a place to live in Wouldn't that be compensation, technically? Also, I'd expect a company to be required to pay someone at least a minimum wage, but I could be mistaken. > I am doing this because i live in a war torn country, some issues happened and i've lost all my savings Dude, forget the US for now. Your first priority is to get a safe place to live in and a stable job so you can build your financial life back. Try other countries, such as the Netherlands, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland. These have way better immigration policies, specially for people in tech. Then, when you are ready, try California again. Having no money will be an obstacle otherwise. How are you going to get translated, notarized documentation otherwise? Not to mention any kind of fees, plus transportation. > i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree Then don't, try another route. Such as via a big US multinational company. Or get the degree, if you follow the suggestion to go to an "easier" country first. You are young, you have time.
slaction 11y ago
Hi OP. Thanks for posting. Now let us tell why you're technically wrong about everything and we know more than you, and we've never had a girlfriend.
pthreads 11y ago
Not trying to be negative but the reality here is you can't legally just work for food and shelter in the US. Whoever makes you work that way is very likely breaking federal and/state laws even if you are not. At the very least you will have to get paid prevailing minimum wage. And the employer can only hire you if you are authorized to work. A very narrow exception exists for unpaid interns. But that requires one to also be authorized to work in one form or the other for e.g. as a student who needs work experience in his/her field of study.
bradleyankrom 11y ago
It bums me out that this is so complicated for you. It also bums me out that I can't think of anything I could do to help you. I hope things work out.
Spoom 11y ago
I'm pretty sure USCIS doesn't care if you're paid or not; the idea is that you're still potentially taking a job from an American citizen. You might want to be careful.
eddywebs 11y ago
If you need a professional degree for potentially being able to get an H1B sponsorship, I would suggest signing up for harvard extension >> https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ Anybody can start class and you qualify to join signup for a professional degree after getting A in 3 or more classes. Good luck !
eddywebs 11y ago
If you need a professional degree for potentially being able to get an H1B sponsorship, I would suggest signing up for harvard extension >> https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ Anybody can start class and you qualify to join signup for a professional degree after getting A in 3 or more classes. Good luck !
aivatra 11y ago
Hey why don't you come to Costa Rica? you can ask for political asylum here and work for tech companies. I'm an engineer and have always worked for american companies here. Also you can try New Zealand which is very similar in tech jobs like Costa Rica.
verelo 11y ago
Disclaimer: I scanned the comments and couldn't see anyone talking about this, but please forgive me if I've missed this as it does seem like an obvious point. Coding for a startup and not receiving pay, is likely still not legal. In my experience with US immigration (I'm Australian, living in Canada...traveling to the US from time to time) they don't really care about the money, they really just are about if you're taking away work that could have otherwise been done by a US citizen. Which leads me to the point of: The fact you're doing the work for free is very likely to be irrelevant, its just the fact that you're doing work that is an issue, irrespective of the reimbursement you're receiving.
- mattthebaker 11y ago
  Not to mention the fact that, legally speaking, if there is no compensation then there is no transfer of ownership on any of the work done. There could be a strong claim to code copyright later on, though without him being citizen I'm not sure what rights he would actually have. Would cost a bit for a lawyer to draft up some contract stipulating the housing as a form of compensation, but again not being a citizen could be a problem.
- TheCapn 11y ago
  I think you've got it right here and I hope this gets seen. US Border Patrol denied my entry to the US once because a coworker and I were coming over to oversee the installation of a number of electrical devices our company built/designed/tested and shipped to the client. We didn't have the adequate paperwork to state that this was a contractual "job" and we were simply there to assist local tradespeople in the installation should they have any questions since, you know, we designed the thing. When we were turned around at the border it was explained: without the paperwork to detail what we were doing, that this was agreed upon ahead of time and likely a bunch of other legal matters they had no method of knowing whether we were hired to save wages that would otherwise go to an American citizen. We weren't being paid for this work, it couldn't be done by anyone else (short of them taking the design work and learning it from the ground up over several months) and we were still denied entry. OP, work, even if free, is still work. Contact legal aid for what you are and are not allowed to do.
eonw 11y ago
go get em tiger, screw all the haters! good for you for trying to better yourself and doing it while following 'the rules'.
seablackwithink 11y ago
Hello, upon reading this post I felt great sorrow for your situation. I have seen many scams,(I do not believe you to be involved in any kind of scam), and known many people with visa issues.. I believe you are a truthful, honest person who deserves the best...as well as having the best intentions towards others. While I am in Texas and have can not offer support at this time...I do know a few people in California and Oregon who may be able to help you...I am sending your post/email to them momentarily. Are there any other states have an interest in regarding living/working etc.? Please let me know and I will see what I can do to connect you with assistance. Also, please keep us up to date regarding your situation. Respectfully, D. Virgillo
- codeornocode 11y ago
  Thank you for your kind comment and help, i appreciate it, most of the comments here and the e-mails i got made me consider somewhere else, when i posted this post i only saw California in my head even though i don't mind going elsewhere at all.
paulhauggis 11y ago
Many people here talk about how 'terrible' the US is as a country. Yet, we see people like the OP trying everything in his power to get into the country. It should really put things into perspective.
zakvyn 11y ago
China(Shanghai, Beijing) will be a good place to go to find IT job that require English communication (good pay), and don't have to worry about visa issue. Just go to linkedin, and find local recruiter there.

584 points by codeornocode 11y ago

logicrime 11y ago

Best of luck to you, friend! Hearing of all the things you have learned and have experience in leads me to believe that many startups would miss out if they overlooked you. You sound awesome.

codeornocode 11y ago
Thank you for your kind words :D

Zombieball 11y ago

Not trying to be negative, but my understanding has always been that U.S. immigrations doesn't care whether or not money exchanges hands. If you are doing work that a U.S. citizen would normally get paid for you are still technically "taking a job" from a local. While I am sure there are conditions that will allow you to come and stay in the country, I would be careful what your arrangement is with any potential startup and how it is worded. Perhaps another individual on HN has more insight into U.S. visa rules and can provide better guidance? Good luck nonetheless!

pdabbadabba 11y ago
I also very much hope you find some way of working things out, but there is another thing you should be aware of: > just food and a place to live in transportation would be nice too but i am not going to take money from you and i am not going to ask your for health insurance or be your employee, i don't want to break any rules There is a good chance that, as well as raising immigration law issues, this arrangement could also cause your non-employer to violate federal and state minimum wage laws. I second the advice of others who suggest consulting an immigration attorney. This is a challenging and important problem, and it really demands the advice of a professional. If you don't think you can afford one you should: 1) schedule an initial consultation with a good immigration attorney anyway. You should get at least this first conversation for free. (And beware: there are many truly awful immigration attorneys. Do a little research.) 2) Look to see if there are any law schools in your area that have immigration law clinics. They may well take your case for free and, although you will be assisted by law students, they will be supervised closely by faculty and will probably provide you with very good advice. Good luck.
- wpietri 11y ago
  Yep. Not paying people properly for work is a crime. I know in California that's a big deal. See, e.g., the crackdown a couple years back on "interships" that were just free jobs. And my guess is that immigration authorities would see food and lodging as payment, meaning both employer and employee would be violating the law. However, I don't think there's anything illegal about paying an independent contractor who's living in another country. So my suggestion to codeornocode would be to find some sort of work in the US that could be done remotely from some safe third country. Immigration authorities care a lot about displacement of their own citizens, but in the places I've lived they don't give a hoot about somebody who is on a working vacation.

rabbyte 11y ago

Best of luck to you, I'm sorry for where the system has gotten in the way. If I could, I would offer.

codeornocode 11y ago
Thank you

mayank 11y ago

Please consider having at least an initial consultation with an immigration lawyer before trying to do this. The initial consult is usually a 20-30 minute phone call and is offered for free by many attorneys. Your intentions are good, but it would be sad if you were blacklisted by immigration for any reason.

rokhayakebe 11y ago

Hey, what kind of visa do you currently have?

codeornocode 11y ago
I have a B1/B2 visa
- rokhayakebe 11y ago
  Some examples of legitimate and temporary business activities that people have conducted on a B-1 visa are: attending business conferences and meetings conducting independent research, such as feasibility or marketing studies engaging in “start-up” activities (for example, exploring U.S. investment opportunities) Source: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-visits-the-us-do-you-qualify.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-v... So it would be legitimate if the work you are doing is to research business opportunities. Also book every relevant conference and convention in the area that you can go to and attend each, get business cards, develop contact. As far as you know, you are here researching future opportunities to set up a great business and create jobs in the U.S..
  - tim333 11y ago
    Here's a potential sort of loop hole. Set up a software development business back in your home country (or another country, non US). It doesn't have to be much - maybe a bank account and a couple of your developer friends as would be contractors for it. Then in the US you can legitimately use your "Business Visitor Visas (B-1) - ... to consult with business associates, ... or negotiate a contract" http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/VisaFlyer_March_2014_print.pdf http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/VisaFlyer_March_20... So you can chat to startups and offer to get stuff written for them by your company abroad. They can legally pay your company and your company can pay you a salary while traveling. I think all the above is legal. Not really legal but very hard to catch is you could actually write some of the code yourself in your room or a cafe in California if the friends back home don't do it. If immigration get on to you it would be hard to prove you are working rather than just mucking about on the laptop. On the other hand if you are in a work situation in an office then they will assume you are working illegally. The above has an advantage that if you do well it may actually turn into a real business.

arihant 11y ago

If you have 8 years of experience, wait till you get 9 years. If you do, then even if you have a year of college, you can qualify for H1B. Typically, 3 years of experience equals 1 year of college. As is popular myth, a college degree or education is not a requirement that is set in stone for H1B. Also, money or not, if you're working in US in capacity that usually someone would get compensated for, even for a company outside the US, you need to have work permit in the country. If I were you I would look for jobs within Middle East like Qatar, UAE. Jobs related to tech are there, US universities are there, and the requirements with immigration are basically "if employer wants you get in." Rack up a few years of experience, then getting H1B would be viable.

codeornocode 11y ago
Thank you for your help and information.
coryl 11y ago
How do you prove that you have 9 years experience?
- blm 11y ago
  You might have to give them contact details for bosses for each of the positions. At least that is what I had to do.
  - oalders 11y ago
    Which can be problematic if some of your 9 years have been spent with the company where you are currently employed.
    - kybernetyk 11y ago
      Or you have run your own business or have been a self-employed freelancer. Proving experience without employment contracts is really hard to impossible.

idibidiart 11y ago

Hi, I like you and your tenacity. Why don't you ask it differently so all those annoying comments trying to "help" you would stop. What I'm thinking is this: "hey guys, Does anyone have a fun side project I could hack on? Would you also be so generous as to have a couch for me at your place and host me for couple of weeks or whatever time?" I can't imagine why such a proposal would have any illegal implications as long as you're presence in this country is legal. You can also qualify the "side project" as non-commercial and "hobby" Does that make any sense whatsoever in your situation? Anyway, best of luck. I really hope things get better. Take care.

codeornocode 11y ago
Thank you a lot.
jack9 11y ago
The tricky bit is that he needs official employment to get back in to the US, as I understand it.

iamcurious 11y ago

Talk to a lawyer that actually knows the stuff. Also, if the situation looks that bleak regarding the U.S, please consider another country that gives you a better legal standing. Broaden your search. There is more to the world than North America and Europe.

jpgvm 11y ago

If the US visa doesn't work out try going to a country with less archaic immigration law. i.e anywhere else. Specifically Australia, Canada, Germany all have working holiday visas which are flexible and would let you do this sort of thing. Generally anything to do with the US and visas is a bad day.

matthewrudy 11y ago
I would suggest Singapore too. Great emerging startup scene, very quick to get working visas.
marquis 11y ago
Working holiday visas are not permitted once you reach 31. You must apply and enter the country before you are 31, I believe (it may be 30).

phantom_oracle 11y ago

Have you tried applying for refugee status? I don't know if you'd be allowed to work, but instead of taking grants from the US as a refugee, you could maybe convince them that you are a skilled-refugee who is leaving your war-torn country and you would like to work instead of being given a handout. Something tells me that the red-tape in the US won't allow this, but it is worth a shot, especially if you speak to an immigration lawyer about it.

gmazzotti 11y ago

Why U.S.? I understand that you don´t want to live in your country, but there are many others countries. Many of them has a much flexible immigration system where you can live legally if you find a job and where there are many jobs opportunities if you know how to code. I mean, instead of working almost illegally for free in the U.S., you can be legally and earning good money in another country. I´m from Uruguay and this will work here (also, you will have health insurance, as it is mandatory in any job of any type. Also, it is common that tech companies hire forgeries that don´t know Spanish, as most people know English, is not a problem). I know that this is also the case in many other countries.

hackaflocka 11y ago
On paper Uruguay has an amazing proposition for potential immigrants (and loved your ex-President with his humble lifestyle). However, only about 3,000 immigration visas are being granted each month from what I've heard, which is way lower than the demand for them.
- zzleeper 11y ago
  Given that UY has 1% of the US's population, 3,000 visas is actually a lot (equivalent to 3.6 million visas per year in the US)
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - markvdb 11y ago
      467*10^3 immigrant visas, not 10^6!
- notNow 11y ago
  Can you tell please more about the immigration and work outlook and prospects in Uruguay? I have very limited info about Uruguay and I appreciate it if someone could help me and provide more details about the situation there

meric 11y ago

If U.S. doesn't work out, give Australia a try, a lot more lenient.

bayesianhorse 11y ago
Unless you are granted asylum and therefor have to live in a prison camp...
- incompatible 11y ago
  The refugees in the prison camps haven't been granted asylum.
  - bayesianhorse 11y ago
    That's not true. Even those who are granted asylum have to live in these camps and are not allowed to live in Australia. "You will not make Australia your home." Also, holding children in prison camps unfit for human habitation, because they have not been granted asylum status, isn't that much better.
- meric 11y ago
  That only applies to refugee unable to afford a plane ticket...

rtpg 11y ago

I'm not in the US, but some people here are. What about working on some open source projects? I don't think that would fall into the danger zone of immigration law(since you wouldn't be working "for" anyone). Alternatively, maybe a company here can offer you an internship? The visa requirements could be less. Does anyone here know an immigration lawyer that could help this person get out of a bad situation?

steven2012 11y ago

Unfortunately this is most certainly in violation of immigration laws. And chances are at some point, you will be banned from entering the US for a minimum of 10 years. I actually know 2 people that this happened to, one of them a personal friend of mine. Immigration/Customs officials do not need proof to ban you, all they need to do is suspect it. If you enter the US with no plan, no money, etc, they will suspect, rightfully so, that you are working in violation of your visa and you will get banned on the spot, especially if you visit so often. My suggestion is to not do this. Enter as a tourist and enjoy your time in the US. If you want to work in the US, do it legally. Do work on an open source project and try to network and get a job that that way. Maybe try to join a huge company like Google or Facebook from abroad and transfer. That's your best way, especially if you get an L1 visa.

bobosha 11y ago
I suspect you are on a BUsiness (B-1?) visa and what you propose to do, even if no cash exchanges hands is considered compensation and therefore employment. As others have pointed out, you could end up in serious trouble with US immigration authorities- the 10 year ban is just the beginning, it could end up with a lifetime ban! It is just not worth the risk and definitely not someone of your caliber needs to. There are other countries where you could fare better. Perhaps Canada?
rokhayakebe 11y ago
You may be wrong: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-visits-the-us-do-you-qualify.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-v....

currentoor 11y ago

If you're from a war torn country have you considered applying for asylum? I know cases were asylum was granted to guys from my old country, India, which is by no means a war torn country. I'm going through the immigration process right now and everyday Canada looks like a good option. I know it's not the US but it's still an awesome western country and has a reasonable immigration system. Good luck!

msutherl 11y ago
Highly recommend Canada ... Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal all have decent (albeit small) tech scenes and are great places to live.

codeornocode 11y ago

I didn't expect this to be #1 post this is kind of you people, I would love to thank everyone who posted and is posting midway replying to comments with "Thank you" i found out i'd be spamming the comments in here, so this is a huge THANK YOU to everyone who wrote and will write.

faithfone 11y ago
Congrats on the repost. You may want to include more detailed contact information in your profile. All the best to you!

blrgeek 11y ago

Have you considered India? While a work visa is not likely to be easy, the current tech scene has huge demand for programmers of all kinds. Especially if you're expert in Unity/Full-stack. If it'll help, let me know here, and I'll connect you to someone in this very area (game programming, Unity SDK programming). Other options would be Canada, Mexico, Vietnam, or anywhere else you can work remotely. For visa details see http://www.immihelp.com/nri/indiavisa/employment-visa-india.html http://www.immihelp.com/nri/indiavisa/employment-visa-india....

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sandGorgon 11y ago
definitely post to https://www.facebook.com/groups/delhistartups/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/delhistartups/ or https://www.facebook.com/groups/blrstartups.connect/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/blrstartups.connect/ If you want any more information about India - dont hesitate to mail me. It's a great startup ecosystem and great food. Yes, we have our shit - but fairly democratic and good opportunities can be had in general. Tech work in India can be used as a stepping stone to the middle east, Singapore or the US.

maehwasu 11y ago

Email sent. Let's get the ball rolling and see what you've got.

hamza001 11y ago

http://googler700.blogspot.com/ http://googler700.blogspot.com/

hamza001 11y ago

http://googler700.blogspot.com/ http://googler700.blogspot.com/

rainereli 11y ago

Hey USA is not the only place in the word where you can develope your self, with that CV to can try India , China , Shangia places where you can find a LOT of opportunities.

zkhalique 11y ago

I am not 100% sure about the rules, but I think work for free is still considered work. If you have a tourist visa, you are not allowed to work for a client in the USA, even for free. If you have all this time, why not develop an app and sell it on the internet? You can always say you're working for your own company back home.

jedanbik 11y ago

I wouldn't want to hire you because I wouldn't want to get in trouble. I also wouldn't want you to get in trouble. There are alternatives being discussed here that would allow a win/win instead of a lose/lose: pick a different country, get another year of experience, and play by the rules.

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davnicwil 11y ago

You seem a highly skilled and driven individual whose talents would be savoured, and rewarded with good money, by many companies in many different countries around the world. Do not work for free. Once more, please, do not work for free. 1. You don't have to work for free, far from it. You have in-demand skills and experience in a global job market. You can make really good money in many, many desirable locations around the world. 2. I would be extremely wary of anyone who would take you up on the basis you're proposing. Anyone who would give you such 'charity'[1] may have very questionable morals - 'oh sure, I'll take this desperate[2] man's skills, make potentially a LOT of money off of him without giving him his due reward, and that's completely fine with me, because that's what he said he wanted'. Imagine the sort of person who would utter such a sentence - do you want to tie your livelihood for the next however many years to such a person? I'm sure you know, there is a whole class of criminal activity in developed countries which exploits illegal immigrants based around this very premise. DO NOT put yourself on that path. 3. Never put yourself at the mercy of any one person or organisation for your survival. Your current situation is awful, but what kind of life would that be to move to? How will you feel waking up in a morning in a bed someone is letting you sleep in, eating some food they gave you for breakfast, then going to work all day only to guarantee an evening meal and bed when you return home. Repeating every day for a long time. That is not a life. [1] That's what they might justify it as, at least. The reality is the opposite. [2] I really don't mean to offend here, I know that's not what you are, at your core. But that's how they will see you, and that's the position you will put yourself in and indeed what you will become by following such a path.

crypted 11y ago
Thanks, what an inspiring reply.
rattray 11y ago
I don't think `davnicwil` is wrong here, but I do think it's overly negative. A lot of immigrants through the course of history have fled truly terrible situations and ended up in pretty bad situations where they were disadvantaged, but at least able to get their feet on the ground and build something up. I agree that I would guess you can do better, especially looking at other countries (there are so many out there! and wonderful people everywhere). But worse comes to worse, don't be afraid that the sky will fall down on you if you can't find better than this arrangement. Just keep working hard and leaping for better (and do keep your eyes peeled as there absolutely could be people who would take advantage of you).

GigabyteCoin 11y ago

I knew a guy who was hasseled entering the US with some tools because he planned to do renovations on his own house that he owned outright. The border guards said that unless he was a citizen or had a work visa then he was not allowed to work on fixing up his own house, and would have to hire a local to do it. tl;dr working for "just food and a place to live" is still technically working, and unless you have permission to do so it would be risky for all parties involved.

homakov 11y ago
> then he was not allowed to work on fixing up his own house Then tourists are not allowed to cook and must go to restaurants, and coding for open source is also illegal? I think guards were wrong.
- tim333 11y ago
  There's a grey area. Making your own bed is ok. Renovating a series of houses to sell on isn't. It's not totally clear where the boundary is but I think the guards have some discretion.

rebekah-aimee 11y ago

Look up this organization called "World Relief." They might take you on and help you with visa troubles. This is definitely in their department and they're super nice people; I volunteered with one of their families for a while. Good luck; we're rooting for you.

yadavrakesh 11y ago

Please consider India as one possibility - I have good connections and can help you if interested. Yadav.rakesh (at) gmail No need to work for free - definitely not when you know how to program and build systems. We don't seem to have enough of those. Good luck.

jonsterling 11y ago

I don't think this is even legal; I'm sorry for your situation, but you must see that if this sort of thing were allowed, it would pave the way for slavery.

RomanPushkin 11y ago

What you can do is to move to country like Ecuador (Cuenca, let's say) or Thailand, or Indonesia (Bali), or Phillipines. It's relatively easy to live there on a long term. You can find a job on oDesk (upwork now). I did it before, I earned $3K/month and worked 5 hours a day only. It's a good money for these countries (well and for US too). Just work remotely, live there, save money. One day you'll find a job and will legally move to U.S. (seems like you'll be qualified after 9 years of professional experience).

technomancy 11y ago
If you want to work in Indonesia or Thailand you need a local company to sponsor your visa and work permit, which makes remote work tricky. In years past you used to be able to just leave the country every 60 days or whatever and hop right back over the border, but you can't get away with that these days. Doesn't make any sense, but that's how it is.

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alongtheflow 11y ago

Try O-1 Visa. O-1 visa is getting more popular as an alternative to H-1B. O-1 visa does not require a university degree, and I think you have a good shot depending on how well you put yourself out there. http://www.quora.com/O1-Visa http://www.quora.com/O1-Visa

seanccox 11y ago

You should consider traveling to the US on your visa and then applying for refugee status: http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees You can contact the Helsinki Citizens Assembly or the International Organization for Migration for advice.

seikatsu 11y ago

There is quite a lot of US visa related guesswork going on in this thread - please do seek expert advice. In my experience the application and compliance problems look much less scary when you talk to someone who does this every day. Lawyers are expensive, but try: http://teleborder.com http://teleborder.com (YC startup) And on the global search for alternatives, should US not work out, here's some overview data of 110 most startup-friendly cities in the world: http://my.teleport.org/ http://my.teleport.org/ -- and a mobile app for searching among them: http://teleport.org/mobile http://teleport.org/mobile (visa data layers coming soon, too, but dozens of other cost & quality of life criteria already there)

paulhauggis 11y ago

Many people here talk about how 'terrible' the US is as a country. Yet, we see people like the OP trying everything in his power to get into the country. It should really put things into perspective.

freeslugs 11y ago

codeornocode best of luck man.

bayesianhorse 11y ago

Consider coming to Germany. Berlin has a nice startup scene and both English and Arabic speaking communities. I don't know how easy it is to get a Visa in your particular situation!

titomc 11y ago

I am an Indian national on H1B with a top company in US. By all means please do not come to US with H1B. The U.S. has broken immigration system. My visa is locked down to my employer and I cannot ask for a raise or get promoted. I accepted the lowest payment as per DOL from my employer just to stay and work in US with my 6 year H1B validity. By all means apply for a Canada work visa. They have now something called Express Entry system. You can also apply for permanent residency. US immigration system is broken and they are not going to fix it anytime soon. Immigrate to Canada. H1B is indentured servitude. I have started my Express Entry application and very soon I will say goodbye to US , I don't mind the cold in Canada. I will have freedom to change jobs, won't be an indentured servant. I will also get permanent residency fast. US green card for Indian citizen is around 10 years backlogged. I suggest it's best for you to apply for the Canadian Express Entry for skilled workers.

burnte 11y ago
I'm sorry you're having such a bad experience here, I really am. As an American, you're right, our immigration system is horribly broken; ten years for a green card is average for most immigrants, if not fast for many. US firms, especially tech firms, use H1B to do exactly what you said, acquire people who are effectively indentured servants. Don't like it? Go back to your home country. Don't want to accept the bottom-basement pay? Someone else will, there are plenty of non-Americans to exploit! And at the same time they lobby the Congress for an increase in H1B visas claiming there aren't enough US workers, they send out ads asking for ten years experience in HTML5 and CPU design, offering $30k for an "entry level" position, and say they can't find anyone here to fill it. Of course not, your requirements are insane and the wage is equally insane. Yes, there are plenty of companies using H1B ethically, but for every ethical H1B, there are 5 unethical ones. It's a disservice to both American workers AND foreign workers. PS: I'm not anti-immigration. I'm very much pro-immigration. What's that? You're intelligent, hard working, and want to come to my country to work your butt off and get rich? COME ON OVER! All I want is an immigration system that's fair to everyone, both those coming in to get a fair shake and have protections, and those of us already here, preventing immigrants from being used as cheap replacement labor.
- deleted 11y ago

ahuja_s 11y ago

I run a startup in Singapore. There is a huge shortage of skilled developers in Singapore. Please do email me at sudhanshu@ideatory.co if you want to consider Singapore (I saw another comment suggesting Singapore). i know friends/startups looking for developers here and in Hong Kong (another option). Good luck mate!

OoTheNigerian 11y ago

Here are my suggestions. 1. Take a deep breath and be calm. It will be ok. You have a visa which is the option to move. you are in a good place already. 2. Think of the most stable (infrastructure and cost wise) country you can access visa free, go there and try getting a remote position in the US. With that, you can fun living a fairly stable life in the mean time. 3. DO NOT risk your B1/B2 by trying to trick the system. Aim for a maximum of 4 months/year in the US on it. 4. With your B1/B2 you can travel to Mexico and Turkey for a while too. Finally, DO NOT risk your B1/B2 and always have a decent reason when entering. the paper you have in your passport is merely for the CHANCE to gain entry at the immigration border and not a visa in itself. It will be ok bud!

arianvanp 11y ago

Personally, I'd go to the European Union. There are a few very good reasons: - Once you get citizenship in one country, you can freely work on any of the other countries, or move there and live there. Creating a much bigger area of opportunity for jobs. You could have citizenship in France, and work at a cool startup in Amsterdam - Though it causes a lot of political instability currently (immigrants constantly drowning in the ocean, trying to get across), getting a visa here isn't that hard, especially when you're from a conflict zone and can show you have a good chance to get a job. - Europe is pretty awesome.

akazuba 11y ago
I doubt schengen area is larger than US. And not all countries are easy to live in because of the non-english languages. Yes, developers can do with english only. Yet, if you are going to live somewhere or settle somewhere, you need to know the language and be a part of that society. Agree with your last point, Europe is pretty awesome.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
I agree with your points, but one small nitpick: the US is almost as big as the whole EU - 300M vs. 500M citizens. So it's not much larger area of opportunity, just a little bit larger.
- corford 11y ago
  167% the size of the US is more than a little bit, non?
  - mcv 11y ago
    Same order of magnitude. EU and US each have their pros and cons. But the EU is absolutely worth considering.
- t0rb3n 11y ago
  Also there is no language barrier in the US.

siddarthan_sp 11y ago

Sorry to say, but I don't think what you're asking for is legal. You cannot be employed just for food/place to stay. If you need to work in the US, it's not possible with your visa (which I'm assuming is B1/B2).

jdimov9 11y ago

I broke the US rules. I worked on my student visa, got thrown around four different prisons throughout Pennsylvania and New York in the span of 30-something days and was finally deported (with airfare that I had to pay for). I was in my final year of my B.S. in mathematics program at university. I never finished my degree. All of the above is absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, THE most fortunate thing that has happened to me and I owe all of my current success to this. What I'm trying to say is - PLEASE get back your dignity. You're not a monkey, don't make any person, government or society make you think you are one.

pavlov 11y ago
... I owe all of my current success to this. Can you elaborate? Sounds like an interesting story.
harel 11y ago
I'd love to hear that story as well, as I feel the same (minus jail/deportation). I had a green card and gave it up to move to London. One of the best moves I've made.
nokya 11y ago
+1 for the story :)
bernardom 11y ago
You kind of have to tell the story now. It sounds too interesting.

mmaunder 11y ago

It sounds like the poster is on a B1 or B2 visa which allows 6 months max stay. It's essentially a tourist visa that is issued for up to 10 years with max stay of 6 months and no right to work. It's highly likely that he will enter a few times with short stays outside the USA and then get denied entry, sent to secondary processing at an airport, questioned and be offered: A) the right to contest his case in court which will mean jail time until his case comes up or B) The option to withdraw his petition to enter the USA and catch the next plane back to his home country. Most people choose B for obvious reasons which leads to you being marched through the airport by security and put on a plane back home. What I'd very strongly recommend is to not go around offering to work for free. If you do in fact live in a war torn country and have 'lost all your savings', do what many offshore folks do and get a US company to hire you for pay and just work wherever you are and get paid in your home country. Why the "work for free" offer and why the long story? It makes companies nervous. We like to pay people for their good work whether in the USA or outside the country, but legally and above board. You should get paid too. Just posting a few data points regarding H1B stuff and immigration in general: Time varies for visa processing and 10 years is not average for most immigrants (as has been mentioned). It took me 6 months from zero to green-card and 3 years from conditional residency (green card) to full citizenship. Not H1B. So it varies according to type of Visa, where you file and your country. Wait times can be found here: https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do Microsoft brings in H1B's at a rate of 2000 to 4000 people per year into the Redmond area. http://visadoor.com/companies/microsoft-corporation http://visadoor.com/companies/microsoft-corporation Google about the same numbers, mostly into Mountain View: http://visadoor.com/companies/google-inc http://visadoor.com/companies/google-inc I'm not sure I agree about H1B being indentured servitude. I'd also add that, if your intention is to become a citizen via H1B, make sure you understand how the process works before you even apply for H1B: http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-US-citizenship-with-H1B-visa http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-US-citizenship-with-H1B-vi...

hal9000xp 11y ago

> i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree I have exactly the same problem. I'm from Russia and I don't have university degree so I can't get H1B visa right now (but I will when I have 12 years of exp). US is really hard country to get in. I relocated to Stockholm, Sweden since Sweden doesn't require university degree for work permit. Software developers are in shortage occupation list. Sweden is easiest wealthy western country to get in. If you will bored in Sweden, you can later apply to UK (as far as I understand Tier 2 General doesn't require degree either). You can get your job in Hong Kong and Singapore without university degree but it will be a bit harder. So I recommend Sweden. It's better to be normal employee in Stockholm than working for food in California. Also, don't stay for a few months in US on tourist visa. Next time they ban you to issue new visa!

listic 11y ago
> don't stay for a few months in US on tourist visa. Next time they ban you Are you suggesting that the U.S. immigration authorities are banning people for using visas to their capacity, for their intended purpose?
- hal9000xp 11y ago
  YES! More precise, they don't ban you, they just don't give you a new visa. US immigration authorities use the following logic: If immigration officer has opinion that you are potential immigrant, he will refuse you a new tourist visa. Or another definition: If there is no clear evidence that you are not potential immigrant, you will be refused to get a new tourist visa. For example, people often won't get US tourist visa: 1. Who spent too much time in US on tourist visa (even if they formally didn't break their limits); 2. Who previously had a visa under "Work and Travel" program; 3. Who are young single girl; 4. Who said that he/she has relatives or friends living in US; I wasn't careful and said that I have a friend living in US. They immediately refused to give me US tourist visa! I read several hundreds interviews with US immigration officers (people posted their experience after refusal) and I think I clearly understand how US immigration authorities made their decisions. But it's too late, I did it AFTER my interview with immigration officer. I didn't want to stay in US illegally but immigration officer think so. US immigration authorities are very, very, very suspicious about Russian and Middle East citizens. BE CAREFUL WITH THEM!

s3nnyy 11y ago

If you want to optimize for money, I would recommend Zurich. It is the only place in Europe where net salaries compare to NYC or the Bay-Area. If you are interested in moving here, shoot me a mail. Alternatively, check out my blogpost on medium: "Eight reasons why I moved to Switzerland" (https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-to-switzerland-to-work-in-it-c7ac18af4f90 https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t...)

jacobush 11y ago
I agree but I want to bat for Sweden too. Wages are lower, but you don't have to pay for health insurance at all, all medical care is free and high quality. Also, Switzerland is not a member of the E.U. But Switzerland is great, I hear from relatives living there.
- s3nnyy 11y ago
  "Also, Switzerland is not a member of the E.U." You're saying this as if it would be a bad thing... Also, paying 300-500 CHF per month for health insurance out of pocket might sound not to bad considering the fact that your net-salary is probably 3000 CHF higher here. (In Switzerland you pay 16-22% as income-taxes compared to 60% in Sweden).
wallzz 11y ago
I wonder if it is easy for non UE citezens who live in EU

thiago_fm 11y ago

I advise you try to find a job in Germany. I'm a brazilian myself and got a job here. For a skilled Ruby dev with a diploma(for a third world country, this is a requirement) you can get around here pretty easily.

tim333 11y ago
Also Germany has pretty much free universities if you can qualify as a resident which I guess you would if you work a few years.

fasteo 11y ago

>>>> I am doing this because i live in a war torn country I think your best option is to ask for Asylum [1] [1] http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum

killerpopiller 11y ago

I actually could use your help and would provide a nice shelter, food, salary in an awesome town here in Germany. if you are interested, let me know.

bmir-alum-007 11y ago
Germany also has single-payer socialized healthcare IIRC. The US has Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacare which isn't so great, and often doesn't include dental or vision care. For a long-term living situation, that's probably more important. Also, the US immigration and refugee systems are arbitrary, byzantine, gotcha minefields that can suck would-be visitors into indeterminate imprisonment or expelled for minor paperwork errors or unintentionally breaking one of a billion unclear rules.
codeornocode 11y ago
That sounds awesome, please contact me when you see this my e-mail is -as mentioned in the post- life.will.get.better.2016@gmail.com.

bmir-alum-007 11y ago

To help make "ends meet," it's possible to get some food, healthcare and monetary assistance from federal, state, county and city programs, often managed by each county's social services agency. Firstly, there's the Refugee Cash Assistance (RCA) program: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa/debs/calworks/Pages/refugees.aspx https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa/debs/calworks/Pages/refugee... Here are some other California refugee programs: http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/refugeeprogram/ http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/refugeeprogram/ List of other refugee programs: http://www.visaus.com/benefits.html http://www.visaus.com/benefits.html Next, food aid (food stamps) is called CalFresh (req 5 yrs of residency for noncitizens) After that, there's MediCal (state-run health insurance available at the county social services agency) (unsure of requirements) Lastly, General Assistance (emergency cash, a pittance) (only 15 days of residency is required). You can sign up for it at a local social services agency office. Here's the main website for Santa Clara county: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ssa (Beware of name clash: federal Social Security is also called SSA. I hear any sort of Social Security benefits usually takes a very long time and lots of paperwork to get.) GA policies: https://www.sccgov.org/ssa/general/gachap06.pdf https://www.sccgov.org/ssa/general/gachap06.pdf Other California counties' websites are listed here: http://www.counties.org/ http://www.counties.org/

ThomPete 11y ago

You should consider getting an O-1 visa.

jane_is_here 11y ago

Have you considered Canada ? It has nice people and is not as hostile to migrants as some other countries.

kevindeasis 11y ago

Oh man if you only lived in Alberta. You would def be welcome to stay at my place.

avellable 11y ago

You can apply to jobs in companies which are targeting diversity and experience like Rakuten Inc. It's in Japan one of the safest countries. If you got the appropriate experience they will hire you.

worldadventurer 11y ago

How about working for a startup tackling poverty alleviation globally, based in beautiful Cebu, Philippines? Visas here are much easier to get and the startup scene is growing rapidly. We're looking for talented full stack developers to work with Go language, Python/Django, Java, Docker, and Microservices. Our customers are doing life changing work globally, including in the Middle East. https://www.engagespark.com/about/#join https://www.engagespark.com/about/#join . And two of us co-founders based here are from the US originally.

tinco 11y ago

Why not just apply for college in The Netherlands? (I recommend NHL or if your sciencey Twente). Or Germany? You can live comfortably on a part time job and can use the degree to get into the U.S. if you want.

thobakr 11y ago

There is no future in the US, just go to other country (like Canada or something in west Europe).

davidbanham 11y ago

You may be a good candidate for an Australian visa. Not sure where it goes, but this form allows you to register your interest in becoming a skilled migrant. https://skillselect.gov.au/SKILLSELECT/ExpressionOfInterest/PreReg/Start https://skillselect.gov.au/SKILLSELECT/ExpressionOfInterest/... Also, there _may_ be nothing stopping you from living in the US but working remotely for a company in another country. That may be a good path to getting an Australian/European/other company to sponsor you for skilled migration. Best of luck!

winash 11y ago

I work in Germany, had the option to work in the US but decided against it, I find the visa regime too strict, and unless you land a great job in a great company in a good city(you don't want to live in the middle of nowhere) it's not worth the trouble. There are plenty of Jobs which you can get without knowing German, and many employers provide free classes where you can learn some basic German. IMO knowing a new language is also a very marketable skill depending on where you are from. Depending on the company you may get 25-30 paid day offs in a year. You can get paid well if you are qualified/experienced. Living costs are low as well, I live in Berlin in a spacious 3 room apartment in a great area (http://i.imgur.com/qLqzqN7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qLqzqN7.jpg). The infrastructure is amazing. My daily commute is 20 mins door to door (subway or cycle) and I don't need a car at all. My daughter goes to daycare for free, and the healthcare system though it has its quirks, works quite well. Getting a blue card is easy and with your qualifications you should be able to get it quickly, with the blue card you can travel outside the EU and come back within 12 months, no questions asked.I just took a 3-week vacation back home and plan to take another one this year. If you wanna explore some options I would be more than happy to help, drop me an email at winash@outlook.com

humbertomn 11y ago

Honestly, I think you will be more successful if you spend your time and energy looking for employers that could sponsor your visa to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc... I'm from a very remote part of Brazil and I used www.seek.com.au to get a programming job in Australia in 2008.. The company ran some remote tests with me and paid for all the relocation costs. You should try this. Also you can try to get a permanent visa even before you try to move there. You can use the Immigration Points Calculator (https://www.wannamigrate.com/tools/ https://www.wannamigrate.com/tools/) to know if you have the basic requirements for these same countries.

arunitc 11y ago

With 8 years of experience, you should be able to get a H1B. Every 3 years of experience adds 1 year to your education. You need 16 years of education to get a H1B. I too do not have a degree and managed to get a H1B. The challenge is to get through the lottery. However, as many others have suggested, I too would recommend you to try another country, where visa rules are relaxed.

greyfox 11y ago

if your a good programmer why not land a job and let the company you work for take care of the visa we employ many chinese workers at our company and they all stay here visa paid for by the company, there is some real world infactuality in your premise, any company who "would" want you to work for them for free, as a skilled worker, should also want to pay you and pay for your via.

outworlder 11y ago

> I have 4 years remaining in my U.S visa, each visit i can stay 6 months, i don't want to break any U.S rules that's why i want to code for your startup for no money, just food and a place to live in Wouldn't that be compensation, technically? Also, I'd expect a company to be required to pay someone at least a minimum wage, but I could be mistaken. > I am doing this because i live in a war torn country, some issues happened and i've lost all my savings Dude, forget the US for now. Your first priority is to get a safe place to live in and a stable job so you can build your financial life back. Try other countries, such as the Netherlands, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland. These have way better immigration policies, specially for people in tech. Then, when you are ready, try California again. Having no money will be an obstacle otherwise. How are you going to get translated, notarized documentation otherwise? Not to mention any kind of fees, plus transportation. > i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree Then don't, try another route. Such as via a big US multinational company. Or get the degree, if you follow the suggestion to go to an "easier" country first. You are young, you have time.

slaction 11y ago

Hi OP. Thanks for posting. Now let us tell why you're technically wrong about everything and we know more than you, and we've never had a girlfriend.

pthreads 11y ago

Not trying to be negative but the reality here is you can't legally just work for food and shelter in the US. Whoever makes you work that way is very likely breaking federal and/state laws even if you are not. At the very least you will have to get paid prevailing minimum wage. And the employer can only hire you if you are authorized to work. A very narrow exception exists for unpaid interns. But that requires one to also be authorized to work in one form or the other for e.g. as a student who needs work experience in his/her field of study.

bradleyankrom 11y ago

It bums me out that this is so complicated for you. It also bums me out that I can't think of anything I could do to help you. I hope things work out.

Spoom 11y ago

I'm pretty sure USCIS doesn't care if you're paid or not; the idea is that you're still potentially taking a job from an American citizen. You might want to be careful.

eddywebs 11y ago

If you need a professional degree for potentially being able to get an H1B sponsorship, I would suggest signing up for harvard extension >> https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ https://www.extension.harvard.edu/ Anybody can start class and you qualify to join signup for a professional degree after getting A in 3 or more classes. Good luck !

eddywebs 11y ago

aivatra 11y ago

Hey why don't you come to Costa Rica? you can ask for political asylum here and work for tech companies. I'm an engineer and have always worked for american companies here. Also you can try New Zealand which is very similar in tech jobs like Costa Rica.

verelo 11y ago

Disclaimer: I scanned the comments and couldn't see anyone talking about this, but please forgive me if I've missed this as it does seem like an obvious point. Coding for a startup and not receiving pay, is likely still not legal. In my experience with US immigration (I'm Australian, living in Canada...traveling to the US from time to time) they don't really care about the money, they really just are about if you're taking away work that could have otherwise been done by a US citizen. Which leads me to the point of: The fact you're doing the work for free is very likely to be irrelevant, its just the fact that you're doing work that is an issue, irrespective of the reimbursement you're receiving.

mattthebaker 11y ago
Not to mention the fact that, legally speaking, if there is no compensation then there is no transfer of ownership on any of the work done. There could be a strong claim to code copyright later on, though without him being citizen I'm not sure what rights he would actually have. Would cost a bit for a lawyer to draft up some contract stipulating the housing as a form of compensation, but again not being a citizen could be a problem.
TheCapn 11y ago
I think you've got it right here and I hope this gets seen. US Border Patrol denied my entry to the US once because a coworker and I were coming over to oversee the installation of a number of electrical devices our company built/designed/tested and shipped to the client. We didn't have the adequate paperwork to state that this was a contractual "job" and we were simply there to assist local tradespeople in the installation should they have any questions since, you know, we designed the thing. When we were turned around at the border it was explained: without the paperwork to detail what we were doing, that this was agreed upon ahead of time and likely a bunch of other legal matters they had no method of knowing whether we were hired to save wages that would otherwise go to an American citizen. We weren't being paid for this work, it couldn't be done by anyone else (short of them taking the design work and learning it from the ground up over several months) and we were still denied entry. OP, work, even if free, is still work. Contact legal aid for what you are and are not allowed to do.

eonw 11y ago

go get em tiger, screw all the haters! good for you for trying to better yourself and doing it while following 'the rules'.

seablackwithink 11y ago

Hello, upon reading this post I felt great sorrow for your situation. I have seen many scams,(I do not believe you to be involved in any kind of scam), and known many people with visa issues.. I believe you are a truthful, honest person who deserves the best...as well as having the best intentions towards others. While I am in Texas and have can not offer support at this time...I do know a few people in California and Oregon who may be able to help you...I am sending your post/email to them momentarily. Are there any other states have an interest in regarding living/working etc.? Please let me know and I will see what I can do to connect you with assistance. Also, please keep us up to date regarding your situation. Respectfully, D. Virgillo

codeornocode 11y ago
Thank you for your kind comment and help, i appreciate it, most of the comments here and the e-mails i got made me consider somewhere else, when i posted this post i only saw California in my head even though i don't mind going elsewhere at all.

paulhauggis 11y ago

Many people here talk about how 'terrible' the US is as a country. Yet, we see people like the OP trying everything in his power to get into the country. It should really put things into perspective.

zakvyn 11y ago

China(Shanghai, Beijing) will be a good place to go to find IT job that require English communication (good pay), and don't have to worry about visa issue. Just go to linkedin, and find local recruiter there.