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Elon Musk: Tesla cars will have “autopilot mode” by summer

365 points by rjshade 12y ago

danielweber 12y ago
To Musk, highway speeds are not the challenge; the complexity of the landscape is. “Highway cruise is easy, low speed is easy, it’s medium that's hard. Being able to recognize what you’re seeing and make the right decision in that suburban environment in that 10 mph to 50 mph zone is the challenging portion.” http://www.pcworld.com/article/2898118/elon-musk-teslas-could-drive-themselves-today.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2898118/elon-musk-teslas-coul...
Sakes 12y ago
Did they already resolve the legal issues on a state by state basis?
- cloudwalking 12y ago
  Nope, these Teslas will only self-drive on private property. Or if you fall asleep at the wheel. Source: listened to the call this morning.
  - bdamm 12y ago
    California and Nevada have already created legal scaffolding for operating autonomous cars. Certainly the legal issues will get very interesting, but I don't think they'll get in the way of the autonomous cars. Just look at how well Uber is doing! Get a product people want, and sometimes the law will bend pretty far.
  - abalone 12y ago
    The private property restriction is only for Batmobile mode where you summon the car and it drives to you all by itself. The autopilot / cruise control 2.0 / lean back mode where it handles all the driving on the highway, but you're still behind the wheel.. That's the main thing. I'm also curious whether there are state law issues.
    - delive 12y ago
      Do they use GPS location to determine private property? Curious if I could get out of the Tesla in my driveway and have it park itself in the (narrow) garage.
      - cmdrfred 12y ago
        That would be a neat feature, pull up to the front of a building on private property release the driver and go find a parking spot.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    According to the article, it will self-drive on "highways and major roads," and the "summon my car" is only for private property. Maybe it's just adaptive cruise-control combined with lane keeping, and you'll still need to make turns.
dchuk 12y ago
An interesting implication of that statement is that all the hardware to make this functionality work is already in the vehicle if it's just a software update.
- greglindahl 12y ago
  Why, yes, this blog posting from October 10, 2014, said that: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop...
  - staunch 12y ago
    > Every single Model S now rolling out of the factory includes a forward radar, 12 long range ultrasonic sensors positioned to sense 16 feet around the car in every direction at all speeds, a forward looking camera, and a high precision, digitally controlled electric assist braking system. Does anyone know how their system might compare to the spinning Lidar thingamajigs Google uses on their cars?
    - subleq 12y ago
      Here is an article comparing sensor types: http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/cameras-lasers.html http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/cameras-lasers.html
    - zik 12y ago
      The lidar that google uses provides a huge amount more information. Add that to the detailed maps that the google vehicle uses and it's pretty clear that these vehicles aren't really trying to do the same thing. Google's trying to handle fully driverless operation but Tesla's going for a more immediately commercializable middle ground.
    - nateguchi 12y ago
      It's my understanding that Lidar is a lot more sensitive to bad weather
  - deleted 12y ago
aetherson 12y ago
What is the sensor package being leveraged here?
- manicdee 12y ago
  http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop... Forward radar, forward camera, 12 long range ultrasonic sensors with coverage in "every direction at all speeds".
Domenic_S 12y ago
I love Tesla, but Musk's starting to smell a little like Peter Molyneux -- promising the world and delivering little. Get the Model X out (2 years late and counting...)
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  You've got to have ridiculously unrealistic standards to say SpaceX and Tesla have "delivered little".
- selectout 12y ago
  In this instance though, it's more of selective delivering. He is still delivering on many of these features and "futuristic updates" just not on 1 specific piece of hardware.
- godgod 12y ago
  I love Tesla, SpaceX and Solarcity and what E Musk is doing in these areas but I am strongly against cars that drive you around. This is all a push to limit our freedoms. What if I want to go for a drive? Soon we won't be able to drive cars because all cars will be automated.
- shkkmo 12y ago
  I don't that comparison is apt. One delayed product is not nearly the same as a long sequence of products that were launched without many promised features.
- mikeash 12y ago
  If you get past the tremendously misleading headline, you'd see that his statement isn't so crazy. All this article is about is Musk saying that Tesla Model S firmware version 7, out within a few months, will include full "autopilot" functionality, which means traffic-aware cruise control and automatic lane keeping. The former is already enabled (I just used it half an hour ago) and the latter has been demoed extensively and there's no reason to doubt it will ship when claimed.
  - aetherson 12y ago
waterlesscloud 12y ago
Two points in the article bring up an interesting thought- Will autonomous highway driving make the recharging stops more or less annoying? If you're not actively driving the car, will you have less fatigue and so less need or desire for a 30 minute recharging break every few hundred miles?
- tbrownaw 12y ago
  On long trips now, is it the driver or the passengers who are more interested in rest stops?
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    Depends on the drivers and the passengers. But there's a difference between a 5-10 minute restroom stop and a 30 minute recharging stop. Random thought- the drivers on long distance trips self-select for people who like to keep going.
    - pqomdv 12y ago
      The difference is small if you take the whole trip into account. Assuming one stop, over 6 hours of total trip time, the difference become less than 5%. I wonder how much a 10 minute stop charges a Tesla S. Probably a third. Once the superchargers become common enough, you can do several shorter stops instead.
acadien 12y ago
"self-driving car" and "car capable driving itself on highway under optimal conditions" are 2 totally different things. The real excitement comes when I can tell my car to go pick up the kids from school or drop me off at the airport and then drive itself back home. Anyways this is a great step in the right direction but its not the game changing tech we're all waiting for.
- DubiousPusher 12y ago
  "Mr. Musk said in a conference call that the self-driving technology was “technically capable of going from parking lot to parking lot,” meaning through cities as well. But, he said, Tesla will disable the autopilot when cars are not on highways or major roads, citing safety concerns." I think the implication here is that the cars are capable of this but they are taking the smaller step out of legal and liability concerns.
  - acadien 12y ago
    So what if they're capable? The tech is not available, end of story.
  - cblock811 12y ago
    If that's the case I think it was a good decision. If anything went wrong I feel like the media would love to fixate on it as they did with the car batteries igniting previously.
    - kzrdude 12y ago
      It makes sense that exactly tesla might not want to be the first company to launch that technology. A major failure would be an existential risk to them (just from publicity and momentum).
      - jasonlingx 12y ago
        He's already stated his desire for Tesla to be the first to market with autonomous vehicles.
AceJohnny2 12y ago
Every time Elon Musk makes this kind of announcement, his engineering departments groan. As I understand, they have folks actively managing Musk trying to prevent him from promising the moon :)
- JulianMorrison 12y ago
  Too late, he promised Mars.
  - AceJohnny2 12y ago
    ... I opened myself up for that one didn't I :)
  - acqq 12y ago
    Anybody knows if any needed equipment is actually installed in his cars? From what I've understood with Google cars, the cars would need quite a lot things like high tech radars.
    - lylebarrere 12y ago
      They've been including the hardware in the cars since about 3 weeks before they first announced these features earlier this year.
- pbreit 12y ago
  I hate this sentiment. Yes, Elon makes huge promises. And you know what? He frequently gets there. Everyone quoted in the article says "No". Elon says "Why not?" And you're worried about the engineers.
  - derefr 12y ago
    "He" doesn't frequently get there. The engineers get there. Or they don't. If they don't, whose fault do you imagine it is?
    - 12y ago
tfe 12y ago
Wow, I didn't realize they had been building in the necessary sensors all along. To just light this up one day for the existing fleet with an OTA update is nothing short of astounding.
- orblivion 12y ago
  Particularly since they didn't price the cars to include this feature.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    I mean, the cars are insanely expensive already. I think they're priced to include plenty.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      The pricing includes R&D costs for the next, cheaper model. That's the basics of Tesla's strategy - start with high-end, let the rich bankroll the neccessary work to bring electric cars to the masses.
    - declan 12y ago
      Teslas are in line with other luxury sedans (of course you may view all of those are insanely expensive). The 60 starts at $64K, cash price counting tax credits, and the P85 is $96K. Compare that with the starting prices of the BMW 5-series, $50K (base) to $94K (M5). The Porsche Panamera is $78K to $180K starting price. The Model S has been tested against the Mercedes S550, which starts at $94K. If you look at the performance of the P85D, especially its horsepower and torque, you arguably get far more for your money than you do with any petrol-powered sedan. It's even quicker than the Panamera Turbo. I prefer lighter vehicles -- the P85D is 50% heavier than my RWD manual transmission'd sports car -- but if I needed a sedan Tesla would now be my default choice.
      - usaphp 12y ago
        I am sorry but You just can't compare tesla model s with Mercedes S class in terms of comfort - that's the biggest reason why people purchase an s class merc. In terms of interior quality and ride comfort I can only compare tesla to Toyota camry or Nissan maxima at best. Bmw, Mercedes never mind Porsches are miles ahead in comfort/interior quality departments.
jbryant1221 12y ago
Just add in some built in wifi and you could get a lot of work done while on you are going somewhere.
chrisBob 12y ago
Does anyone know what my car insurance rate would do if I got a car that will let me nap or read a book on the way to work? That is one major issue I haven't seen addressed.
- cowsandmilk 12y ago
  I don't think insurance companies know how to price it yet. If it works, insurance costs should go down. If it fails randomly, well....
  - cmdrfred 12y ago
    Auto insurance is already insane, I'd love to see this take out the big automakers and the insurance companies with it.
    - cookingrobot 12y ago
      Self-driving cars should come with insurance included, since accidents aren't the owners fault.
      - chrisBob 12y ago
        You already have the option of paying extra for accidents that aren't your fault. Why would that be free now?
        cookingrobot 12y ago
        Currently insurance is on the driver, because accidents are their fault. In a self driving car, accidents are the manufacturers fault, so they should have the burden of insurance. With a self driving car, you're really just a passenger, so you shouldn't need your own insurance to ride in one.
bronz 12y ago
Does the autopilot handle bridge inspections?
cjensen 12y ago
"Mostly self-driving" just seems crazy to me. As soon as the car is able to drive on a major highway, you're going to have "asleep at the wheel" issues, and the car cannot simply hand back control to the driver. There have been times when I've misjudged my level of tiredness. Drifting out of lane is a good marker that you've screwed up and need to pull over immediately and sleep. Does Tesla have some way to determine wakefulness or to safely pull over if the driver fails to respond?
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Toyota definitely has technology to detect whether the driver is asleep and wake up the driver. (I am not sure if this technology has hit the market yet so I can't comment on what the implementation is) You can then wake up the driver by actuating the seat or sounding an alarm.
  - dakrisht 12y ago
    Mercedes-Benz has had this technology for maybe 5 years now. The car will audibly, visually and via haptic feedback through the steering wheel alert a driver if the vehicle detects they are getting drowsy. Nothing new here.
- heyheyhey 12y ago
  > Does Tesla have some way to determine wakefulness or to safely pull over if the driver fails to respond? Not sure about Tesla but the technology DOES exist and some cars do currently have it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
  - cjensen 12y ago
    Yes, but those ALL work by observing the driver's driving, so that won't work.
- stdgy 12y ago
  A co-worker and I were just talking about this. My take on the situation is that this could be partially alleviated if the car were to refuse to get off of the highway until after the driver manually took it out of autopilot. If the driver doesn't respond, skip the exit and stay on the highway sending out alerts until the driver responds. Not exactly optimal, but I feel it may be the safest route. It would be interesting to see what other strategies people come up with.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Fando 12y ago
This feature is great. Perhaps once such cars become the majority on the road, traffic flow could be optimized resulting in a faster commute during rush hours.
joeyspn 12y ago
Well, it's pretty clear that the headline is a bait for page views... Anyways, steps in the good direction, but far from the self-driving cars we all have on our minds...
Shivetya 12y ago
I am not sure I agree on the two hundred mile threshold, maybe for the family commuter car. however no electric of that range will ever replace the car for trips to grandmas. let alone the price differential between an equivalent gas powered car is going to have to be a lot closer to justify the limitations of an electric.
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  You're missing the self-driving feature. Once there are self-driving cars there will be cheap self-driving cabs. That's what you take to grandma's house. And of course the cab can run on gasoline. Or run on electricity and when it runs out of power it stops somewhere you can get some food and a freshly charged cab.
- vvanders 12y ago
  Supercharging makes road-trips much more reasonable. 20-30 minute break every ~150 miles.
- TheCoelacanth 12y ago
  If you can afford a Tesla, you can afford to rent a gas powered car a few times a year, or more likely you just fly when you are traveling that far. And of course in the US it's pretty common for families to have multiple cars, so you could have one electric and one gas car. I agree that it doesn't handle all use cases for a vehicle, but no car does and it would be pretty foolish to try.
dakrisht 12y ago
I'm not positive on this but I believe Tesla either uses technology or licenses patents directly from Mercedes-Benz regarding their whole "self-driving" and "autopilot" marketing here. Case in point: my current car does a variety of self-driving tasks such as: - Autonomous braking - Active lane keeping assist to steer you in the lane if the radar and cameras detect you are swerving - PRE-SAFE collision prevention plus that will autonomously brake if it detects an imminent impact - Pedestrian awareness system that will autonomously brake if it detects a pedestrian is entering the range of the long, medium and short range radar - Distronic Plus that will accelerate and brake according to both the vehicle in front and behind you from 0 mph up to 100mph - Attention assist that employs various sensor to detect drowsiness and alert the driver audibly and via haptic feedback if it's time to take a break. - Active blind spot assist that will audibly, visually and via haptic feedback alert the driver that a car has entered your hotspot and prevent you from entering that particular lane So while the Tesla camp is and should be excited about "self-driving" enhancements, Mercedes-Benz has been doing this for well over 2 years now with some of the technology above even becoming standard features on non-high end Mercedes vehicles such as the S-Class with the appropriate packages. I don't really see much but hype with respect to Tesla's announcement. Good link here: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/benz/safety http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/benz/safety
- nateguchi 12y ago
  There's quite a few manufacturers that have this technology other than Mercedes
  - dakrisht 12y ago
    Not all of it, some of it - yes. In particular, the Blind Spot assist systems are prevalent in a few different manufacturers. The more advanced "self-driving" systems are all Mercedes-Benz technology that is part of their high-end vehicles (and not a standard option). Remember, Mercedes-Benz holds over 80,000 patents on this stuff and more coming all the time. There's no doubt they are pioneers in vehicle safety systems including self-driving cars. Edit: Mercedes-Benz actually omitted quite a few even more advanced "self-driving" features from their new S-Class since, even though the technology was ready, regulatory requirements and drivers themselves were not ready for pure self-driving vehicles. (Taken from an intervew with Marc Andreessen on the new technologies in the S-Class).
coliveira 12y ago
It looks like Tesla is just trying to play catch up with some other companies. Volvo already has a car with self driving technology, Chrysler also has a very good near-self-driving system.
- bobbles 12y ago
  As mentioned elsewhere, this will be rolled out as an OTA update, people wont have to replace their cars for this
  - bri3d 12y ago
    Only cars made since late 2014: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop... , so most current Tesla owners would have to upgrade. This announcement is quite bubbly, IMO. Many luxury automakers have had the capability for "highway autonomy" in the way Tesla seem to describe for several years now: see this reckless Infiniti driver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k . The "parking lot to parking lot" capability would be truly interesting (as city driving presents a lot of interesting problems that aren't just "follow lines and traffic") but as there's no announced timeline for it, there's no sign Tesla are actually ahead of the numerous other automakers working on the same capability.
suyash 12y ago
I thought self driving cars were 5 years away.
joshschreuder 12y ago
Somewhat off-topic, but what are the filesizes like for the OTA updates for the Tesla?
mixmastamyk 12y ago
Sounds great, but I'd prefer a simple slow/stop crash avoidance when there is an object slowing/stopped in front of the car. What is he status on that, anyone know? The Tesla forums on the subject are filled with geniuses advising people to drive better, in lieu of such important safety features.
patcon 12y ago
I'm sceptical that they'll be allowed to deploy this. But hey -- They should just push the update with a harcoded feature toggle keeping the functionality off. Then the line they tow is "Oops! Someone rooted their car and overrode our safety!"
- bri3d 12y ago
  Why not? Every luxury carmaker has had this level of highway autonomy for quite some time now - here's an example of an Infiniti where the (completely reckless) driver literally gets into the passenger's seat while the car is driving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k Most European automakers have systems with similar capability (Audi and Mercedes have systems that even work down to 0mph in traffic) but maintain a "one hand on the wheel" sensor to prevent stunts like this. The purported "parking lot to parking lot" capability is what's really interesting, but it sounds like Tesla have no timeline to actually deploy it yet.
ulfw 12y ago
Over promise, under deliver. The PR machine at work again.
n_blom 12y ago
It's not likely that this "autopilot mode" is close to the state of the art. See for example what kind of technique Audi has put into their prototype A7: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1029470_autonomous-audi-a7-concept-steers-itself-from-san-francisco-to-las-vegas-for-ces http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1029470_autonomous-audi-a... I can't believe Tesla has all these sensor already build in. Plus Audi, Mercedes, etc. have all enormous experience in vehicle dynamics, which is critical in handeling automatic reactions like full braking and sudden fast steering at higher speeds. The critical part is what does so car do if it requests driver interaction but the driver does not response. Brake? On a highway? Autopilot will come, but not in the three month. That's just hilarious.
- mikeash 12y ago
  You're right that "autopilot" isn't the state of the art anymore. It's just radar cruise control and automatic lane keeping. The radar cruise control feature is already available in the Model S, and has been for a couple of months. Lane keeping is the missing piece. You can buy cars right now with automatic lane keeping, and Tesla has demoed it extensively in their cars, so there's no real doubt about it coming soon to Tesla. Three months is "hilarious" for a feature that's already been commercialized by others and has been shown to be nearly done in Tesla's implementation? How do you figure?
gdubs 12y ago
I'm looking forward to summoning my self-driving car from my Apple Watch and living out my childhood Knight Rider fantasies. (I know, only on private property in the early stages -- but still, pretty darn cool.)
Animats 12y ago
The Tesla Model S has forward-looking radar, ultrasonic sensors on all sides, and a forward-looking camera. That's marginally enough for automatic driving in routine freeway situations.
- fab13n 12y ago
  That's way more sensors than a human driver enjoys.
mark_integerdsv 12y ago
So torn on this because I fall into the chest beating, love to drive my car set but I also remember how much reading I got done when I was younger and used to use the train to commute. Having that time back is a very seductive proposition. What I do wonder though is what's the point of having your own car, if all cars are autonomous then isn't that essentially a tram system? How long would it take before there are established routes and taking your car to a given location is no different to hopping on any one of the other cars that are heading there anyway? Surely the one of the first businesses to be radically impacted by widespread autonomous vehicles is the taxi industry? I can't see an outcome where pretty soon it's not just a fancy tramway.
jupake 12y ago
Too late. The latest S-Class Mercedes already has something like this.
fab13n 12y ago
The insurance / responsibility question really shows how moronic bureaucracy has made us. To rephrase naysayers in a more first degree way: "sure there would be less accidents than when the vehicle is driven by a glorified ape, but for the fewer people still killed or maimed, we wouldn't be sure whom to blaim. So we'll keep killing more of them through ape drivers, rather than rush the paperwork-rethinking trauma".
- coldpie 12y ago
  Eh, a half-dozen really smart companies are pursuing self-driving technology. If it were really a concern enough to keep it off the market, they wouldn't continue working on it.
  - fab13n 12y ago
    Thankfully, morons don't indefinitely prevent progress, most of the time. But their existence, and the fact that they're not labelled as "painfully, obviously moronic" by most people / media is infuriating.
wahsd 12y ago
So basically the intelligent cruise-control that Mercedes developed in the early 90s?
throwawaykf05 12y ago
Hmm, I thought Musk would be concerned that his autopilot would try to destroy him.

365 points by rjshade 12y ago

To Musk, highway speeds are not the challenge; the complexity of the landscape is. “Highway cruise is easy, low speed is easy, it’s medium that's hard. Being able to recognize what you’re seeing and make the right decision in that suburban environment in that 10 mph to 50 mph zone is the challenging portion.” http://www.pcworld.com/article/2898118/elon-musk-teslas-could-drive-themselves-today.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2898118/elon-musk-teslas-coul...

Sakes 12y ago

Did they already resolve the legal issues on a state by state basis?

cloudwalking 12y ago
Nope, these Teslas will only self-drive on private property. Or if you fall asleep at the wheel. Source: listened to the call this morning.
- bdamm 12y ago
  California and Nevada have already created legal scaffolding for operating autonomous cars. Certainly the legal issues will get very interesting, but I don't think they'll get in the way of the autonomous cars. Just look at how well Uber is doing! Get a product people want, and sometimes the law will bend pretty far.
- abalone 12y ago
  The private property restriction is only for Batmobile mode where you summon the car and it drives to you all by itself. The autopilot / cruise control 2.0 / lean back mode where it handles all the driving on the highway, but you're still behind the wheel.. That's the main thing. I'm also curious whether there are state law issues.
  - delive 12y ago
    Do they use GPS location to determine private property? Curious if I could get out of the Tesla in my driveway and have it park itself in the (narrow) garage.
    - cmdrfred 12y ago
      That would be a neat feature, pull up to the front of a building on private property release the driver and go find a parking spot.
- danielweber 12y ago
  According to the article, it will self-drive on "highways and major roads," and the "summon my car" is only for private property. Maybe it's just adaptive cruise-control combined with lane keeping, and you'll still need to make turns.

dchuk 12y ago

An interesting implication of that statement is that all the hardware to make this functionality work is already in the vehicle if it's just a software update.

greglindahl 12y ago
Why, yes, this blog posting from October 10, 2014, said that: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop...
- staunch 12y ago
  > Every single Model S now rolling out of the factory includes a forward radar, 12 long range ultrasonic sensors positioned to sense 16 feet around the car in every direction at all speeds, a forward looking camera, and a high precision, digitally controlled electric assist braking system. Does anyone know how their system might compare to the spinning Lidar thingamajigs Google uses on their cars?
  - subleq 12y ago
    Here is an article comparing sensor types: http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/cameras-lasers.html http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/cameras-lasers.html
  - zik 12y ago
    The lidar that google uses provides a huge amount more information. Add that to the detailed maps that the google vehicle uses and it's pretty clear that these vehicles aren't really trying to do the same thing. Google's trying to handle fully driverless operation but Tesla's going for a more immediately commercializable middle ground.
  - nateguchi 12y ago
    It's my understanding that Lidar is a lot more sensitive to bad weather
- deleted 12y ago

aetherson 12y ago

What is the sensor package being leveraged here?

manicdee 12y ago
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop... Forward radar, forward camera, 12 long range ultrasonic sensors with coverage in "every direction at all speeds".

Domenic_S 12y ago

I love Tesla, but Musk's starting to smell a little like Peter Molyneux -- promising the world and delivering little. Get the Model X out (2 years late and counting...)

waterlesscloud 12y ago
You've got to have ridiculously unrealistic standards to say SpaceX and Tesla have "delivered little".
selectout 12y ago
In this instance though, it's more of selective delivering. He is still delivering on many of these features and "futuristic updates" just not on 1 specific piece of hardware.
godgod 12y ago
I love Tesla, SpaceX and Solarcity and what E Musk is doing in these areas but I am strongly against cars that drive you around. This is all a push to limit our freedoms. What if I want to go for a drive? Soon we won't be able to drive cars because all cars will be automated.
shkkmo 12y ago
I don't that comparison is apt. One delayed product is not nearly the same as a long sequence of products that were launched without many promised features.
mikeash 12y ago
If you get past the tremendously misleading headline, you'd see that his statement isn't so crazy. All this article is about is Musk saying that Tesla Model S firmware version 7, out within a few months, will include full "autopilot" functionality, which means traffic-aware cruise control and automatic lane keeping. The former is already enabled (I just used it half an hour ago) and the latter has been demoed extensively and there's no reason to doubt it will ship when claimed.
- aetherson 12y ago

waterlesscloud 12y ago

Two points in the article bring up an interesting thought- Will autonomous highway driving make the recharging stops more or less annoying? If you're not actively driving the car, will you have less fatigue and so less need or desire for a 30 minute recharging break every few hundred miles?

tbrownaw 12y ago
On long trips now, is it the driver or the passengers who are more interested in rest stops?
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Depends on the drivers and the passengers. But there's a difference between a 5-10 minute restroom stop and a 30 minute recharging stop. Random thought- the drivers on long distance trips self-select for people who like to keep going.
  - pqomdv 12y ago
    The difference is small if you take the whole trip into account. Assuming one stop, over 6 hours of total trip time, the difference become less than 5%. I wonder how much a 10 minute stop charges a Tesla S. Probably a third. Once the superchargers become common enough, you can do several shorter stops instead.

acadien 12y ago

"self-driving car" and "car capable driving itself on highway under optimal conditions" are 2 totally different things. The real excitement comes when I can tell my car to go pick up the kids from school or drop me off at the airport and then drive itself back home. Anyways this is a great step in the right direction but its not the game changing tech we're all waiting for.

DubiousPusher 12y ago
"Mr. Musk said in a conference call that the self-driving technology was “technically capable of going from parking lot to parking lot,” meaning through cities as well. But, he said, Tesla will disable the autopilot when cars are not on highways or major roads, citing safety concerns." I think the implication here is that the cars are capable of this but they are taking the smaller step out of legal and liability concerns.
- acadien 12y ago
  So what if they're capable? The tech is not available, end of story.
- cblock811 12y ago
  If that's the case I think it was a good decision. If anything went wrong I feel like the media would love to fixate on it as they did with the car batteries igniting previously.
  - kzrdude 12y ago
    It makes sense that exactly tesla might not want to be the first company to launch that technology. A major failure would be an existential risk to them (just from publicity and momentum).
    - jasonlingx 12y ago
      He's already stated his desire for Tesla to be the first to market with autonomous vehicles.

AceJohnny2 12y ago

Every time Elon Musk makes this kind of announcement, his engineering departments groan. As I understand, they have folks actively managing Musk trying to prevent him from promising the moon :)

JulianMorrison 12y ago
Too late, he promised Mars.
- AceJohnny2 12y ago
  ... I opened myself up for that one didn't I :)
- acqq 12y ago
  Anybody knows if any needed equipment is actually installed in his cars? From what I've understood with Google cars, the cars would need quite a lot things like high tech radars.
  - lylebarrere 12y ago
    They've been including the hardware in the cars since about 3 weeks before they first announced these features earlier this year.
pbreit 12y ago
I hate this sentiment. Yes, Elon makes huge promises. And you know what? He frequently gets there. Everyone quoted in the article says "No". Elon says "Why not?" And you're worried about the engineers.
- derefr 12y ago
  "He" doesn't frequently get there. The engineers get there. Or they don't. If they don't, whose fault do you imagine it is?
  - 12y ago

tfe 12y ago

Wow, I didn't realize they had been building in the necessary sensors all along. To just light this up one day for the existing fleet with an OTA update is nothing short of astounding.

orblivion 12y ago
Particularly since they didn't price the cars to include this feature.
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  I mean, the cars are insanely expensive already. I think they're priced to include plenty.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    The pricing includes R&D costs for the next, cheaper model. That's the basics of Tesla's strategy - start with high-end, let the rich bankroll the neccessary work to bring electric cars to the masses.
  - declan 12y ago
    Teslas are in line with other luxury sedans (of course you may view all of those are insanely expensive). The 60 starts at $64K, cash price counting tax credits, and the P85 is $96K. Compare that with the starting prices of the BMW 5-series, $50K (base) to $94K (M5). The Porsche Panamera is $78K to $180K starting price. The Model S has been tested against the Mercedes S550, which starts at $94K. If you look at the performance of the P85D, especially its horsepower and torque, you arguably get far more for your money than you do with any petrol-powered sedan. It's even quicker than the Panamera Turbo. I prefer lighter vehicles -- the P85D is 50% heavier than my RWD manual transmission'd sports car -- but if I needed a sedan Tesla would now be my default choice.
    - usaphp 12y ago
      I am sorry but You just can't compare tesla model s with Mercedes S class in terms of comfort - that's the biggest reason why people purchase an s class merc. In terms of interior quality and ride comfort I can only compare tesla to Toyota camry or Nissan maxima at best. Bmw, Mercedes never mind Porsches are miles ahead in comfort/interior quality departments.

jbryant1221 12y ago

Just add in some built in wifi and you could get a lot of work done while on you are going somewhere.

chrisBob 12y ago

Does anyone know what my car insurance rate would do if I got a car that will let me nap or read a book on the way to work? That is one major issue I haven't seen addressed.

cowsandmilk 12y ago
I don't think insurance companies know how to price it yet. If it works, insurance costs should go down. If it fails randomly, well....
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  Auto insurance is already insane, I'd love to see this take out the big automakers and the insurance companies with it.
  - cookingrobot 12y ago
    Self-driving cars should come with insurance included, since accidents aren't the owners fault.
    - chrisBob 12y ago
      You already have the option of paying extra for accidents that aren't your fault. Why would that be free now?
      - cookingrobot 12y ago
        Currently insurance is on the driver, because accidents are their fault. In a self driving car, accidents are the manufacturers fault, so they should have the burden of insurance. With a self driving car, you're really just a passenger, so you shouldn't need your own insurance to ride in one.

bronz 12y ago

Does the autopilot handle bridge inspections?

cjensen 12y ago

"Mostly self-driving" just seems crazy to me. As soon as the car is able to drive on a major highway, you're going to have "asleep at the wheel" issues, and the car cannot simply hand back control to the driver. There have been times when I've misjudged my level of tiredness. Drifting out of lane is a good marker that you've screwed up and need to pull over immediately and sleep. Does Tesla have some way to determine wakefulness or to safely pull over if the driver fails to respond?

hkmurakami 12y ago
Toyota definitely has technology to detect whether the driver is asleep and wake up the driver. (I am not sure if this technology has hit the market yet so I can't comment on what the implementation is) You can then wake up the driver by actuating the seat or sounding an alarm.
- dakrisht 12y ago
  Mercedes-Benz has had this technology for maybe 5 years now. The car will audibly, visually and via haptic feedback through the steering wheel alert a driver if the vehicle detects they are getting drowsy. Nothing new here.
heyheyhey 12y ago
> Does Tesla have some way to determine wakefulness or to safely pull over if the driver fails to respond? Not sure about Tesla but the technology DOES exist and some cars do currently have it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
- cjensen 12y ago
  Yes, but those ALL work by observing the driver's driving, so that won't work.
stdgy 12y ago
A co-worker and I were just talking about this. My take on the situation is that this could be partially alleviated if the car were to refuse to get off of the highway until after the driver manually took it out of autopilot. If the driver doesn't respond, skip the exit and stay on the highway sending out alerts until the driver responds. Not exactly optimal, but I feel it may be the safest route. It would be interesting to see what other strategies people come up with.

deleted 12y ago

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Fando 12y ago

This feature is great. Perhaps once such cars become the majority on the road, traffic flow could be optimized resulting in a faster commute during rush hours.

joeyspn 12y ago

Well, it's pretty clear that the headline is a bait for page views... Anyways, steps in the good direction, but far from the self-driving cars we all have on our minds...

Shivetya 12y ago

I am not sure I agree on the two hundred mile threshold, maybe for the family commuter car. however no electric of that range will ever replace the car for trips to grandmas. let alone the price differential between an equivalent gas powered car is going to have to be a lot closer to justify the limitations of an electric.

AnthonyMouse 12y ago
You're missing the self-driving feature. Once there are self-driving cars there will be cheap self-driving cabs. That's what you take to grandma's house. And of course the cab can run on gasoline. Or run on electricity and when it runs out of power it stops somewhere you can get some food and a freshly charged cab.
vvanders 12y ago
Supercharging makes road-trips much more reasonable. 20-30 minute break every ~150 miles.
TheCoelacanth 12y ago
If you can afford a Tesla, you can afford to rent a gas powered car a few times a year, or more likely you just fly when you are traveling that far. And of course in the US it's pretty common for families to have multiple cars, so you could have one electric and one gas car. I agree that it doesn't handle all use cases for a vehicle, but no car does and it would be pretty foolish to try.

dakrisht 12y ago

I'm not positive on this but I believe Tesla either uses technology or licenses patents directly from Mercedes-Benz regarding their whole "self-driving" and "autopilot" marketing here. Case in point: my current car does a variety of self-driving tasks such as: - Autonomous braking - Active lane keeping assist to steer you in the lane if the radar and cameras detect you are swerving - PRE-SAFE collision prevention plus that will autonomously brake if it detects an imminent impact - Pedestrian awareness system that will autonomously brake if it detects a pedestrian is entering the range of the long, medium and short range radar - Distronic Plus that will accelerate and brake according to both the vehicle in front and behind you from 0 mph up to 100mph - Attention assist that employs various sensor to detect drowsiness and alert the driver audibly and via haptic feedback if it's time to take a break. - Active blind spot assist that will audibly, visually and via haptic feedback alert the driver that a car has entered your hotspot and prevent you from entering that particular lane So while the Tesla camp is and should be excited about "self-driving" enhancements, Mercedes-Benz has been doing this for well over 2 years now with some of the technology above even becoming standard features on non-high end Mercedes vehicles such as the S-Class with the appropriate packages. I don't really see much but hype with respect to Tesla's announcement. Good link here: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/benz/safety http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/benz/safety

nateguchi 12y ago
There's quite a few manufacturers that have this technology other than Mercedes
- dakrisht 12y ago
  Not all of it, some of it - yes. In particular, the Blind Spot assist systems are prevalent in a few different manufacturers. The more advanced "self-driving" systems are all Mercedes-Benz technology that is part of their high-end vehicles (and not a standard option). Remember, Mercedes-Benz holds over 80,000 patents on this stuff and more coming all the time. There's no doubt they are pioneers in vehicle safety systems including self-driving cars. Edit: Mercedes-Benz actually omitted quite a few even more advanced "self-driving" features from their new S-Class since, even though the technology was ready, regulatory requirements and drivers themselves were not ready for pure self-driving vehicles. (Taken from an intervew with Marc Andreessen on the new technologies in the S-Class).

coliveira 12y ago

It looks like Tesla is just trying to play catch up with some other companies. Volvo already has a car with self driving technology, Chrysler also has a very good near-self-driving system.

bobbles 12y ago
As mentioned elsewhere, this will be rolled out as an OTA update, people wont have to replace their cars for this
- bri3d 12y ago
  Only cars made since late 2014: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autop... , so most current Tesla owners would have to upgrade. This announcement is quite bubbly, IMO. Many luxury automakers have had the capability for "highway autonomy" in the way Tesla seem to describe for several years now: see this reckless Infiniti driver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k . The "parking lot to parking lot" capability would be truly interesting (as city driving presents a lot of interesting problems that aren't just "follow lines and traffic") but as there's no announced timeline for it, there's no sign Tesla are actually ahead of the numerous other automakers working on the same capability.

suyash 12y ago

I thought self driving cars were 5 years away.

joshschreuder 12y ago

Somewhat off-topic, but what are the filesizes like for the OTA updates for the Tesla?

mixmastamyk 12y ago

Sounds great, but I'd prefer a simple slow/stop crash avoidance when there is an object slowing/stopped in front of the car. What is he status on that, anyone know? The Tesla forums on the subject are filled with geniuses advising people to drive better, in lieu of such important safety features.

patcon 12y ago

I'm sceptical that they'll be allowed to deploy this. But hey -- They should just push the update with a harcoded feature toggle keeping the functionality off. Then the line they tow is "Oops! Someone rooted their car and overrode our safety!"

bri3d 12y ago
Why not? Every luxury carmaker has had this level of highway autonomy for quite some time now - here's an example of an Infiniti where the (completely reckless) driver literally gets into the passenger's seat while the car is driving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_zqEmKV1k Most European automakers have systems with similar capability (Audi and Mercedes have systems that even work down to 0mph in traffic) but maintain a "one hand on the wheel" sensor to prevent stunts like this. The purported "parking lot to parking lot" capability is what's really interesting, but it sounds like Tesla have no timeline to actually deploy it yet.

ulfw 12y ago

Over promise, under deliver. The PR machine at work again.

n_blom 12y ago

It's not likely that this "autopilot mode" is close to the state of the art. See for example what kind of technique Audi has put into their prototype A7: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1029470_autonomous-audi-a7-concept-steers-itself-from-san-francisco-to-las-vegas-for-ces http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1029470_autonomous-audi-a... I can't believe Tesla has all these sensor already build in. Plus Audi, Mercedes, etc. have all enormous experience in vehicle dynamics, which is critical in handeling automatic reactions like full braking and sudden fast steering at higher speeds. The critical part is what does so car do if it requests driver interaction but the driver does not response. Brake? On a highway? Autopilot will come, but not in the three month. That's just hilarious.

mikeash 12y ago
You're right that "autopilot" isn't the state of the art anymore. It's just radar cruise control and automatic lane keeping. The radar cruise control feature is already available in the Model S, and has been for a couple of months. Lane keeping is the missing piece. You can buy cars right now with automatic lane keeping, and Tesla has demoed it extensively in their cars, so there's no real doubt about it coming soon to Tesla. Three months is "hilarious" for a feature that's already been commercialized by others and has been shown to be nearly done in Tesla's implementation? How do you figure?

gdubs 12y ago

I'm looking forward to summoning my self-driving car from my Apple Watch and living out my childhood Knight Rider fantasies. (I know, only on private property in the early stages -- but still, pretty darn cool.)

Animats 12y ago

The Tesla Model S has forward-looking radar, ultrasonic sensors on all sides, and a forward-looking camera. That's marginally enough for automatic driving in routine freeway situations.

fab13n 12y ago
That's way more sensors than a human driver enjoys.

mark_integerdsv 12y ago

So torn on this because I fall into the chest beating, love to drive my car set but I also remember how much reading I got done when I was younger and used to use the train to commute. Having that time back is a very seductive proposition. What I do wonder though is what's the point of having your own car, if all cars are autonomous then isn't that essentially a tram system? How long would it take before there are established routes and taking your car to a given location is no different to hopping on any one of the other cars that are heading there anyway? Surely the one of the first businesses to be radically impacted by widespread autonomous vehicles is the taxi industry? I can't see an outcome where pretty soon it's not just a fancy tramway.

jupake 12y ago

Too late. The latest S-Class Mercedes already has something like this.

fab13n 12y ago

The insurance / responsibility question really shows how moronic bureaucracy has made us. To rephrase naysayers in a more first degree way: "sure there would be less accidents than when the vehicle is driven by a glorified ape, but for the fewer people still killed or maimed, we wouldn't be sure whom to blaim. So we'll keep killing more of them through ape drivers, rather than rush the paperwork-rethinking trauma".

coldpie 12y ago
Eh, a half-dozen really smart companies are pursuing self-driving technology. If it were really a concern enough to keep it off the market, they wouldn't continue working on it.
- fab13n 12y ago
  Thankfully, morons don't indefinitely prevent progress, most of the time. But their existence, and the fact that they're not labelled as "painfully, obviously moronic" by most people / media is infuriating.

wahsd 12y ago

So basically the intelligent cruise-control that Mercedes developed in the early 90s?

throwawaykf05 12y ago

Hmm, I thought Musk would be concerned that his autopilot would try to destroy him.