7 ms·

Ask HN: What's the best place in Europe to live and work cheaply?

132 points by aristidesfl 13y ago

Similar to the U.S. thread, but for people living in Europe.

Anon84 13y ago
Probably one of the crisis countries: Portugal, Greece, etc... Local salaries and prices are especially low, so if you have an external source of income you should be at least upper middle class while living by some of the most gorgeous beaches in the world.
lfittl 13y ago
Personal Preference: Vienna, Austria I'm from there, but part of the reason why I keep coming back is cause its affordable to rent, even in the hip districts (600-700 EUR for 1br) + a great city to live + good bunch of startups + cheap for flying in/out. Prague is similar. Also heard great things about Sofia, but haven't lived there (yet). And Berlin is of course a good option as well.
- celebdor 13y ago
  Salaries and startup scene in Prague are not by far what you can find in Vienna though.
- huhtenberg 13y ago
  +1 to this based on anecdotal data from friends. That's if considering former "Western Europe" block of countries and excluding Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and others. Budapest is quite nice too, strong expat community, strong programmers and generally nice people. Bitch of a language though, very contrived.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  I would strongly recommend against Sofia right now. There is no rule of law in my country as a whole, we are busy overthrowing the government and right now there is increasing xenophobic wave (arabo/islamophobic) due to the influx of Syrian, African and Afghanistan immigrants. Our nationalists are rattling weapons and I think the government will use the foreigners as a lightning rod for the populace anger to keep itself in power. I suppose that during the winter pogroms over them are not out of the question. Actually we had just today a national beaten almost to dead because he is of the Turkish minority and the skinheads mistook him for immigrant. The situation is not nice.
  - lfittl 13y ago
    Unfortunate to hear - although there is (less violent) xenophobic behaviour in Austria that I'm worried about as well.
- phaer 13y ago
  But, in general, you don't live cheaply there especially compared to other cities of the area like Bratislava or Budapest. Prices in Restaurants, Coffee shops, etc are the same as in most other capitals of western Europe. Source: I grew up in Vienna and lived there until 3 month ago. I am now living in Chania, Greece and it's quite cheap to live, has a beautiful old town, nice beaches and fantastic mountains around. The only drawbacks are that there is only a small Linux user group, but the next hacker space is about 3 hours by bus in Iraklio and that it's only cheap as long as you don't have too pay to much taxes.
  - lfittl 13y ago
    Yeah, agreed. Its all relative, thats why I used "affordable" instead of "cheap". In my head I compare Vienna with London and the US (SF/NYC/etc) which are 2-3x as expensive, plus healthcare is worse.
  - gspyrou 13y ago
    Chania is a great city to live.
forcer 13y ago
You can move to some low-tax or no-tax country. I can recommend Andorra, 0% income tax and reasonable prices for pretty much anything , rent, food, alcohol etc :) I also heard Belarus has almost no tax and its very cheap to live there, but there will be lots of bureaucracy :)
- cmdkeen 13y ago
  "lots of bureaucracy" being code for authoritarian dictatorship... I suppose if you want to learn about how you don't actually live in a police state in the West you could move there.
  - zebra 13y ago
    Not always - in Bulgaria there is lot of bad bureaucracy, but the regime is mix of democracy and oligarchy. The country is almost European country.
- PhilipDaineko 13y ago
  Hey, I am from Belarus. True about taxes. There are almost no taxes (fixed 9%) for IT companies especially comparing to western countries. But, there are: 1. No shipment from amazon, ebay. 2. Startup culture is in really early stage. People talking about startups, but there are only few of them who have really achieved something 3. Most of European citizens need to have visa (not sure about price) to get there. 4. Coworking/hacker spaces are at the same stage as startup culture. Hope these things will get sorted out in a few years :) However, if someone decides to go work from Minsk - send me note, I will show you around.
- collyw 13y ago
  What are the job opportunities in Andorra like? I am in Barcelona just now, but I miss the mountains.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
I live in the UK and we use Pounds Sterling. When I travel to any country using the Euro prices are always relatively higher so I would recommend against a country using the Euro. I found this list showing Euro/Non-euro countries: http://www.aph.com/news/knowbeforeyougo/euro_countries.shtml http://www.aph.com/news/knowbeforeyougo/euro_countries.shtml
- demallien 13y ago
  Well, not always. Estonia for exemple is really cheap, at least compared to France, Germany etc
  - k-mcgrady 13y ago
    Thanks that's important to point out. My experiences were only in Ireland, France, Belgium and Austria. As someone living in the north of Ireland using Sterling I experience the price difference often every time I travel south and the jumps aren't insignificant.
- igravious 13y ago
  topic: Ask HN: What's the best place in Europe to live and work cheaply? > I would recommend against a country using the Euro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone Dude, 17 out 27 EU member states use the € with Latvia joining 1 Jan 2014 and Lithuania 1 Jan 2015. Population of Eurozone: 330 million. Good luck coming to Europe and avoiding the Eurozone: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain. Some of these places are really really cheap to live in and work in, and life on the ground varies drastically _within_ countries as well, especially bigger countries like Germany - witness Munich versus Berlin. Yours is the most bizarre advice I've heard in a long long while. For the interested check out the variation in GDP per capita by region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_regions_by_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_regions_by_GD... Goes from ~ €80,000 to ~ €7,000
  - k-mcgrady 13y ago
sebkomianos 13y ago
Depends on what you are looking for really. Are you a freelancer? Do you want to join a startup? Want to create one? Do you have clients already or are you on the hunt for some? Do you like big cities or prefer the countryside? Do you want a warm climate or want to stay in during cold nights?
- shutupalready 13y ago
  When I go into a store and ask the salesman for help, his first question is invariably, What price range are you looking for? Yes, I could answer his question (and the OP could answer your questions), but I prefer not to. I want to hear about all the options. The OP might prefer a warm climate, but he might be willing to tolerate colder weather if he's told it's super cheap or has city-wide free wifi. He might be a freelancer but might change his objective if he heard that a particular country was granting easy visas for startup founders. I know you're trying to be helpful by asking the OP to give a precise spec on what he wants, but this entire discussion would have been far less interesting if he had done so!
- epsylon 13y ago
  Well, since this answer in this thread might interest people other than OP, feel free to make a suggestion where you explain the pros and the cons!
nader 13y ago
Berlin, definitely. It is the best mix of everything you need.
- aristidesfl 13y ago
  Except sun light in the winter...
  - claudius 13y ago
    That really depends on the winter, but most have two or three sunny days, at least…
    - mercer 13y ago
      I've been told for the past three years that this is an unusually cold winter :-/.
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    And you're saying that about Berlin? Try Finland, then :) Yes, winters are an issue for much of Europe and especially for the northern part where much of software industry resides. If that is important for you, then try the cheaper parts near Mediterranean - say, Slovenia is quite nice.
- collyw 13y ago
  Ok, mountains are not a "need", but Berlin is way too flat for me.
briggers 13y ago
I'm in Sofia, Bulgaria right now, doing contract work for international clients. Rent is generally very cheap, 250EU/mo for a central apartment (12mo lease). I am staying here only a month however, so am paying a lot more. Eating out, beer etc is very cheap. Numbeo gets it about right. Amusingly, most Bulgarians I speak to ask why I would want to come to Bulgaria of all places. I guess it's like many places: great fun to visit or live for a few months but painful for long-term residents. Upsides apart from cheap living: it's a fun, walkable city with a lot of excellent parks and very little traffic. Downsides of living here: shockingly corrupt bureaucracy. That said, I'll head to Romania when my month here is up. I lived in Istanbul previously, so let me know if you want to hear about that too.
- Guest98130 13y ago
  What did you think of Istanbul? I just spent the last half year living and working in Europe, and I was thinking about returning next year, with Istanbul high on the list for a month or two.
- aristidesfl 13y ago
  Let us know about Istambul please.
  - recuter 13y ago
    Seconded. It seems like a fantastic city, but I'm not sure what to make of the recent troubles or whether I could swing it as an Israeli (but I guess that problem is outside the scope of this thread, still I mentioned it on the off chance somebody has some wisdom to offer besides getting a second passport).
    - askar_yu 13y ago
      By recent troubles if you mean the protests, rest assured that it's nothing to be worried about. At least from personal security perspective. By swinging, do you mean the requirements like visa, work-permit, residency-permit, etc.? While seconding on the previous friendliness of Turks one thing I would add which is also something that struck me from time to time is Turks in Istanbul sometimes in a way are more European than they are "Turkish" (I don't intend to imply that they are mutually exclusive, or anything special for that matter. Just a figurative compare/contrast. I'll err on political correctness for getting the message across.) PS, I spent about 2 years in Istanbul and loved every bit of it.
welder 13y ago
Budapest, Hungary: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=budapest&tbm=isch https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=budapest&tbm=isch Nice downtown apartments are $300 USD/mo.
- fvrghl 13y ago
  I was just in Budapest. It was really beautiful, but I encountered some of the rudest people I have ever met. I've read on other travel sites that people in Budapest are extremely rude to tourists compared to the rest of Hungary. Maybe it's implied by the nature of this thread that you should learn the language before you move there, but you definitely should for Budapest (assuming you don't want to encounter rudeness).
  - riffraff 13y ago
    I moved to budapest years ago, rudeness has been getting worse super-linearly with the increase in tourism. I understand and speak a bit of hungarian now and I keep getting worse service in bars/clubs/shops/restaurants than I got years ago as a broke exchange student speaking broken english. EDIT: mind you, I still think the city has a lot of pros, and could be a great place to live in cheaply while working on your project.
  - peterjs 13y ago
    As a matter of fact, I do speak the language. A lot of things feel weird to me when I come to visit the city. I have this uneasy feeling about things like the Hungarian Guard [1][2] - a paramilitary group having a rally on the most most important square in Budapest. Or having a fascist party, as the 3rd biggest, in the Parliament [3]. Yet, there is an incredible amount of gifted people, who are the exact opposite of these jerks. I guess a lot of people here admire undertakings like Prezi, LogMeIn, ArchiCAD/Graphisoft, or Ustream, all coming from Budapest. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Guard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Guard [2] http://www.maszol.ro/uploads/files/userfiles/images/kulfold/2013/J%C3%BAlius/09/magyar_garda_hosok_tere081219.jpeg http://www.maszol.ro/uploads/files/userfiles/images/kulfold/... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik
throwmeaway2525 13y ago
This was the original thread (I think my post led to this one, which split the responses): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6700531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6700531
amix 13y ago
Porto, Portugal: It has a river, sea and beaches, lots of history, nice weather, great food, nice people and it's inexpensive. It also has Ryan Air, which means that you can visit other parts of Europe cheaply (<100 euros for a roundtrip in most cases). I am at least living here now and I enjoy it. If you like a little bigger city then Lisbon, Portugal is also an option.
- graeme 13y ago
  What's the rent for a 1BR apartment in a nice part of town?
  - amix 13y ago
    One of my employees rents a 1BR in near the main square (Aliados) for ~360euro/month (~480USD), but you can find something much cheaper a bit more far away.
- croisillon 13y ago
  If you don't care of pouring rain from October to May...
- aferreira 13y ago
  If you're looking to go be a bit away from the city (~1hr by metro), there's two cities called Povoa de Varzim (where I am) / Vila do Conde that have just about everything and are even cheaper.
- pedrocr 13y ago
  Another important point is that the telecom infrastructure is pretty good. These days getting a 100down/10up Mb/s fiber link will cost you 20-40€ a month, you can get a TV+Internet+Mobile bundle for ~80€ and the urban areas have good coverage of both fiber and 3G/LTE.
  - sourc3 13y ago
    Is it easy to get an apartment? Also, can you get around without speaking Portuguese?
cmdkeen 13y ago
Parts of the UK outside London are actually pretty cheap to live in. I live in Edinburgh, slap in the middle of the city, which is also a World Heritage Site. I have a 5 minute walk to work and flat (apartments...) go for £500/800 for a 1/2 bed. Other parts of the UK are much cheaper again.
- jarofgreen 13y ago
  Seconded. It's also a great city, nice and green, busy and supportive tech scene (monthly meetups and conferences) and thanks to the festivals in August the best shows and artists from around the world will be on your doorstep for a great night out. Add in what Glasgow has to offer (eg great live music gigs) a mere 50mins by train away for even more plus points.
- hassy 13y ago
  £800 for a two bed on the Royal Mile?
  - cmdkeen 13y ago
    New Town :) Living on the Royal Mile is a mad idea, just today someone who used to do it was telling me about the constant bagpipes!
- jsoo4 13y ago
  Half a bed? Isn't that more like a chair?
rtfm666 13y ago
this shit is gold, please keep anwering! Please include income, rent and possibility of dev jobs, english speaking etc etc
raulriera 13y ago
You can live in the south of Spain for very little... assuming you don't want to live in big cities of course
- wizzardy 13y ago
  Marbella, Spain is starting to get some attention from investors lately (http://marbellalabs.com http://marbellalabs.com). I really hope we will see more tech people here soon.
  - auxbuss 13y ago
    Hey Paul, I worked there a couple of years ago -- 2 mins from the Copper Tower -- but came back to UK, reluctantly. I'd come back at the drop of a hat. I tried to get things going when I was there, particularly at the Málaga tech park. I'd love to know what's going on.
- dsthode 13y ago
  +1 for that. I live in Malaga and prices are OK. You can find a 1BR apartment from 300€, maybe 250€. Not much tech/startup scene, if you want to engage in this field. There is a technology park where you can find job offers in technology (development, IT), although some of them are from IT consulting firms with low wages and long hours, so you better choose wisely. The weather is very good, 30°-35°C in the summer, and 10°-15°C in winter. And you have a wide variety of beaches along the coast (you will be in the Costa del Sol) There are very good connections with the rest of European cities via its airport, and you can get cheap flights with RyanAir.
zalew 13y ago
define cheap, but: Warsaw (I may be obviously biased). Berlin. beautiful Praha (no idea how the tech market looks like there though).
- eCa 13y ago
  How would you rate Krakow compared to Warsaw? Numbeo says it's a bit cheaper[1]? [1] http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Poland&city1=Warsaw&country2=Poland&city2=Krakow+%28Cracow%29&displayCurrency=USD http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...
  - zalew 13y ago
    Basically every place in Poland is cheaper than Warsaw. Comparing any Polish city to Warsaw economically will give the obvious same results on every aspect, but these cities are completely different breeds of horse. Krakow is more visually appealing and is loved for its historical and cultural value, and a kind of bohemian vibe. Business has boomed significantly during the last decade down there and it's getting more attractive. I've heard it faces serious pollution problems, and in some areas crime is more significant than in Warsaw (which in general is a pretty safe place). When it comes to 'big city life', making money and riding on the fast lane in the land of opportunities, Warsaw is considered that place (saying it's the NY of Poland would be a bit of a stretch, but you get my point). As for the general vibe, Warsaw is the kind of big city you love or hate with a passion, there is no middle ground. You need to learn it and it will be for you what you want it to be. So, whether you're more happy here or there depends on what you are really looking for. For cheaper city alternatives, I've heard a lot of positives about Wroclaw, but I honestly don't know much about it. Disclaimer: I'm locally patriotic, but that said I sincerely believe Warsaw is the place to be, YMMV.
- Spone 13y ago
  I would warmly recommend Warsaw, Krakow or Wroclaw
  - BTurkE 13y ago
lfx 13y ago
Try Lithuania. Rent is about 180-400 EU/mo. Weather is good, not too hot, not too cold. Sun/rain ratio is nice. Cities is not too big, so during season bicycling is preferable. Also public transport is ok. Food for 2 person family is about 150 EU/mo. Streets is safe for foreigners. And Internet is super fast and super cheap here. And there is nice and informative video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO4tbV4UHk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO4tbV4UHk
- croisillon 13y ago
  Quite cold + dead nature from September to April, especially cold and white from January to March
  - lfx 13y ago
    Perfect environment for distraction free work in the office.
    - croisillon 13y ago
      If you don't slide or freeze on your way.
nmbdesign 13y ago
Montenegro is a quite nice place for a freelancer, beaches/good weather/very cheap prices and rent
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  That's all good and well unless you want to take a shower during the daylight in the summer. Just make sure that your apartment has water all the time, and you will enjoy Montenegro.
- dchest 13y ago
  Yeah, weather is unusually nice right now, but not in winter: huge winds and rains. In summer it's so hot that you wouldn't want to work.
- podviaznikov 13y ago
  How is Internet now there? It was not good 2 years ago. Just few providers, bad speed...
brunooo 13y ago
From someone who has a strong culture & tech ecosystem balance bias: - Berlin: It's the perfect combination of cheap living costs and OKish (growing) tech community - As mentioned pretty much everything from Paris to Kiev gets really dark & cold in winter, and not in a NY/Chicago cool way. - More and more people (especially British) move to Spain, mostly Barcelona. Not as good in terms of startup community as Berlin, but at least equally cheap & decent regarding arts. Personal bottom line if you want to spend the whole year in Europe: Barcelona in Winter, Berlin in summer, and using LCC fares to get to London for interesting meetups etc.
- mercer 13y ago
  Doesn't Barcelona get pretty chilly in the winter months? I mean, not as bad as Berlin, but still cold. I've heard even Valencia gets to around 10 degrees celcius in winter.
andrew_isidoro 13y ago
Cardiff, Wales. Not only a great place to live but also has a vibrant and growing digital community: http://cardiffstart.com http://cardiffstart.com http://cardiffdigital.com http://cardiffdigital.com
thibaut_barrere 13y ago
We picked France's Charente Maritime (http://goo.gl/maps/rIFK6 http://goo.gl/maps/rIFK6) to bootstrap and do remote freelancing: rural, the sea is nearby, great food/wine/cheese, weather is warm (but not overly hot in the summer). You can find houses around 600€/mo, we bought our 150k€ including swimming-pool.
wcfields 13y ago
Ljubljana, Slovenia is really nice. It's a mix of east & west, uses Euros/EU, and rent is fairly inexpensive. I met a few ex-pat Americans that were working in tech / IT. No one will ever expect you to learn Slovenian too, it's such a complicated language that unless you were a native speaker, it's next to impossible to speak correctly.
ofk88 13y ago
I live in Munich since 1 year. I am originally from Istanbul. I guess Munich has the highest salaries in Europe. But the city is a bit expensive. I pay 755 euro for a 36 square meters apartment. Berlin is another option. It's a very international city and cheap but the salaries are lower. After Istanbul, Munich seems like a dead village to me. I still can't get used to that streets are totally empty after 9-10 pm. Istanbul is an amazing city. And a lots of job opportunities there. Better climate than Germany. You can't earn as much as Germany but you can still catch the same life standards.
- tonfa 13y ago
  > I guess Munich has the highest salaries in Europe. But the city is a bit expensive. I pay 755 euro for a 36 square meters apartment. You should try Zurich (higher for both: salaries and rent) ;)
- gst 13y ago
  Haven't lived in Munich yet, but I expect salaries in cities like London or Zurich to be significantly higher.
  - camus2 13y ago
    Zurich is VERY expensive.Switzerland is expensive in general.
    - collyw 13y ago
      Well as long as you are earning more than you spend, that not a problem.On the other hand if you don't then, you may as well go for one of the cheap countries.....
- briggers 13y ago
  I think the job situation in Istanbul is more complicated if you don't speak Turkish. My Singaporean gf (native English, excellent education) had a lot of trouble finding office work in Istanbul. I believe Turkish is spoken throughout most companies. Just as you say, after Istanbul every city feels empty and lifeless!
emilsundberg 13y ago
I would recommend you to keep out of Eastern Europe. The people there wants to believe they have left their history behind but they haven't. When I visited Budapest the police acted as Stasi and on the local metro they only asks foreigners for valid tickets. Very unfriendly. I would never recommend anyone going there.
- zalew 13y ago
  Budapest ticket inspectors are not a representative of the Eastern Europe region, you know?
- lgieron 13y ago
  You might have as well generalised that experience to the whole northern hemisphere, would be as justified.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  In the recent years Hungary seems to come up repeatedly in media with a much stronger anti-outsider sentiment than the neighboring countries. I have no firsthand experiences like that (traveled for a few days through there 2 years ago, no such observations) - but can locals elaborate, is it really so or just media exaggeration?
AlexanderDhoore 13y ago
I guess France, Belgium and the Netherlands are out of the question? Since you included "cheaply".
- virtualwhys 13y ago
  550 Euros a month down here in the Landes region of France, with high speed internet, 5 minute walk from the beach and world class surf (depending on the season). Probably going to migrate south to the Algarve in Portugal for the winter -- northern european rain, wind, cold are not my cup of tea...
- NicoJuicy 13y ago
  Belguim: receive 40 % of your wadger and the governmentis still stacking debt amd selling buildings and taking payments in advance on future income.. Socialism: spending money you don't have...
chozero 13y ago
Canary Islands, Spain, is one of them. Good weather all year round, good internet connection in many places and plenty of flight connections to most important cities in Europe. Affordable prices for housing and food. You just need to avoid the too touristic places.
albertoperdomo 13y ago
If you don't care much about a startup and tech scene (there is little) you can spend a nice time in the Canary Islands, Spain. It's not the cheapest place in Europe, you'll find cheaper locations in Eastern Europe admittedly. Still, you can find a nice 1BR appartment for €400-500/mo in Las Palmas City near the beach or share an appartment for somewhere around €200/mo for a room. The weather is really really nice throughout the whole year with lots of sun and there's no real winter. Temp. in the city during the winter can be approx. 18º Celsius. The summers are not extremely hot, rather nice temperatures around 25º. There's some co-working places where you can get a desk for €100/mo (half days) or €150/mo (full days). There's a lot of activities that you can do almost throughout the entire year: surfing, boadyboarding, scuba diving, swimming, biking, hiking, climbing and any other outdoor activity. There's plenty of bars and clubs and the nightlife is very lively. Please leave a comment if you want to know more.
- albertoperdomo 13y ago
  BTW, I was born and raised here. I spent 8 years living in Germany and 1 year living in Ireland. Afterwards I decided to move back here 8 years ago and don't have regrets. ;)
- styrmis 13y ago
  Sounds great, I would certainly like to hear more about it. Could you drop me a line via the email in my profile please?
- throwawayyyz 13y ago
  What do you think about raising kids there?
  - albertoperdomo 13y ago
    Well, I have no kids, but some of my friends. Child care or kindergarten is pretty affordable, around €300/mo. If you're a legal citizen (e.g. European or w/ work permit) public schools are free, you just pay for the food, which is around €50/mo, buy materials and uniform. If you want to pay special attention to their education regarding foreign languages and having higher chances to move elsewhere after school or at some point during school age, there are British, American, German and French schools. All of them are private or semi-private and cost up to €500/mo. If you're considering moving here in the mid/long term, the biggest issue is work. The job market here very bad at the moment, with really high rates of unemployment. You shouldn't care about this if you're able to work/freelance remotely. In this case, working for UK/Germany/Northern Europe/USA clients will leave margins better than any job you'll find locally and you'll be able to make a good living. I run a company employing 8 people in total (incl. founders) and we have clients from Spain, Germany, USA. We've been doing this for 8 years. If you or your partner are looking for a job in the local market, the biggest areas are tourism (many million visitors / year) but you can also make a good living teaching English lessons if you're native and stuff like that.
kushti 13y ago
Berlin(relatively cheap, well developed tech scene, big), Prague(amazing city, cheap, well developed tech scene, not so big and not small(1.2M population)), Bratislava(small and quiet)
kephra 13y ago
I would recommend my hometown for self employed, small companies and freelancers: Bremen/Germany Bremen was a harbor and shipyard town 30 years ago. Now most shipyards are bankrupt, and the harbor seldom sees big ships. Rentals are really cheap, e.g. I'm paying Euro208 warm (including heating, water, waste, etc - excluding electricity 64Euros and internet SDSL+Cable ~ 50Euro) for two small rooms plus a big kitchen. So I can smoke at my computer, sleep in a room where I dont smoke and host guests at the kitchen. Houses are also cheap, sometimes only Euro40k. Bremen is a medium size (500k inhabitants) green city with parks everywhere, and gardens around the houses. You can ride bicycle everywhere. We have a good public transport. Its long and narrow. So regardless where you live, you are in walking distance to the river, and in walking distance to the rural. It basically feels like a suburb, but with good transport, and bicycle lanes. Internet is cheap and available, e.g. 30mbit cable for Euro30/month or 100mbit cable for Euro40/month. Ryan air is at our airport, so you can fly within Europe for Euro19, if you pick the right time at night for ordering a ticket. Bremen is a free Hanse city and friendly to foreigners. One of our mottos are "Am nettesten sind die Zugereisten" (the nicest people here are from outside). Citizen here are traditional left wing, so neo-nazi's have a very hard stand, and are seldom seen in public. Bremen has a friendly police, and a sane drug policy. You can smoke marijuana at the dike, and the police will greet you while riding bicycle, and its usual that junkies are sitting in a small park behind the police station. Especially Bremen-Nord (north part of Bremen) has a very friendly small tax office, with great newbie support, and public servants who care for your business. The drawbacks are high unemployment, low wages, and its nearly impossible to get a developers job outside of the military industrial complex. Also others claim that we are cold. Its hard to learn new people in a pub, but thats easier if you are from outside Germany. But we prefer to gather in clubs (e.g. we have 2 hacker spaces). We have several sport clubs, that are affordable, e.g. most working class sailing clubs costs Euro100/year for adults with own yachts. We often joke that Bremen has always good weather: In winter its warm and rainy, and in summer its raining and warm, thanks to gulf stream.
- pyvpx 13y ago
  what are the VISA requirements like for someone from a western country (say, the US or Canada)? If I wanted to live in Germany for a full year, is there a way to do so working independently (i.e. without a German corporation sponsoring a work VISA)? thanks.
nolok 13y ago
Question for the people answering: how do you handle revenu/salary taxes ? I see no mention of it in any post, do you keep paying in your home country, or do you pay in each countries ?
- ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
  For the case of normal income, usually income tax is paid to the country where you are working. The U.S. also claims the ability to tax the income of U.S. citizens working in other countries, but for incomes below $97k/year the Foreign Income Exclusion prevents double taxation. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei...
- DrJokepu 13y ago
  In the EU you pay income tax in the member state where you have earned your income. Some countries of the world (notably the United States of America) require its citizens and permanent residents to pay income tax on foreign earned income as well (in some cases). No EU member states have such requirement.
  - aristidesfl 13y ago
    This is not entirely true. There are laws in many EU countries to prevent tax evasion which make you pay tax income on the country you have citizenship in, specially if you claim to be working from a known tax haven. Yes there is a list for that.
    - albertoperdomo 13y ago
      You can live in Spain for example and work and generate revenue and pay taxes within you country of origin. I think the criteria is you're officially living and working where you spend more than 50% of the year. So I know people that spend less than 50% in a different country, and making revenue and paying taxes within their country, legally.
firegrind 13y ago
gibraltar if you commute by foot from spain. predominantly, the tech culture is based around established gaming and finance companies. english is the lingua franca in work hours.
wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
Anyone with input about Valencia, Spain?
kcovia 13y ago
I like to plan a fun little game on AirBnB for this. Put in Europe as the destination, <$600 per month as the price, and a month as the duration. It'll show you available apartments in everywhere from Sicily to Northern Germany. https://www.airbnb.com/s/Europe?checkin=12%2F01%2F2013&checkout=01%2F01%2F2014&room_types%5B%5D=Entire+home%2Fapt&price_max=620&sw_lat=24.17207670154004&sw_lng=-5.463239690095634&ne_lat=57.627875350960224&ne_lng=33.823869684904366&search_by_map=true https://www.airbnb.com/s/Europe?checkin=12%2F01%2F2013&check...
- recuter 13y ago
  That is a most excellent game, problem is a lot of these are way out in the boonies. For instance I saw a beautiful place at a medieval Italian town for $28/day, its great! But I get the feeling there is nothing to do there after a couple of days so a month seems excessive. Could be wrong.
- aristidesfl 13y ago
  Airbnb monthly prices will be considerably higher than what you can find locally though. Nevertheless is useful to do a relative comparison.
  - franklovecchio 13y ago
    Where's a good place to find rentals outside of AirBnB if you're not physically there yet and want to plan ahead?
fun2have 13y ago
I would go for Lisbon. It has very good and cheap flight connections to the rest of Europe (not good to the West Coast of America). Easyjet, and RyanAir fly out of Lisbon, and the national airline TAP is very good and only slightly more expensive. Very nice weather. We still have not turned on the heating yet. You can live cheaply and well. It may not be the cheapest cheapest in Europe, but is good value for money. For example at a restaurant opposite our office for only 5€ you can have a freshly grilled Sea Bass or a steak. Office rents are cheap as well. Expect to pay from 6€ to 10€ per m3. So you can out source the cooking and even the driving cheaply. A taxi to the airport will set you back just 8€. Somebody I know just rented a two bed apartment in the centre of town for 440€ per month. There is a vibrant Start Up Community. Some really good people. For us the decision was more than just cost, but also standard of living. You can find more details here in why we decided to open an office here: http://blog.webnographer.com/2010/10/an-rd-office-in-lisbon/ http://blog.webnographer.com/2010/10/an-rd-office-in-lisbon/
- dbs 13y ago
  Gotta love the story: A story, that had been told to my brothers, and me since we where small, also helps explains my strong connections to Portugal: In the 1960′s my father, a journalist, was in the Congo covering the war after it’s independence from Belgium. The car he was driving had skidded off the road, and turned over. United Nation’s troops passed him by without stopping, but suddenly out of nowhere a bunch of Portuguese cigarette smugglers appeared. They dragged him out of the car into their car, then sped him across the border, and dropped him of at a hotel… My rescuers bought me a large South African brandy at the bar, gave 500 Rothmans [cigarettes], checked my wallet to see I had enough cash, then left me, delivered back to my native culture, never to see them again. It was the first time I had met Portuguese knowingly – and my first encounter, not only with their extraordinary reaching-out to a stranger in need, but with their blend of bravado, honour, ingenuity and poise. Extract from The First Global Village: How Portugal Changed the World, by Martin Page
istorical 13y ago
I'm building an online community/wiki to try to find the answer to this question and others like it. So far I've gotten responses from more than 100 expats, long-term travelers, and nomads about different places they've lived. You might be interested in reading some of the posts people have contributed so far. Link: http://www.istorical.com http://www.istorical.com
- istorical 13y ago
  But to actually contribute here: I'd recommend Prague: http://www.istorical.com/cities/prague/experiences/127 http://www.istorical.com/cities/prague/experiences/127 [Are you able to afford a better standard of living in Prague than in other places you've lived, or able to afford less?] "Money certainly goes a lot farther here. For one thing, the shops are terrible, so there's nowhere to indulge yourself if you want to go crazy with your credit card. Parking in the city centre is next to impossible but the public transportation system here is safe, clean and a pleasure to use so there's no need to drive a car. The rent compared to other European cities is pretty cheap although times are changing and costs are going up in general. When I first visited Prague, a beer was less than a euro and you only needed to work three days a week to live like a king. But just like anywhere else, you can either pay through the nose for an apartment or get one really cheap by developing the right contacts. The drugs and clothes are more expensive and much poorer quality than in the UK but everything else is generally much cheaper. We live right in the centre of the city so I'm not sure how that compares to the outer edges of the city but we pay 18,000.00 CZK = 698.377 EUR for 90, sq meter apartment with 1 large bedroom, kitchen and living room plus a decent-sized balcony that looks out over the street. That price includes all janitor services, wi-fi and cable TV. This is way more expensive than what I was paying for a three-bedroom house on the outskirts of London but hey, it's Prague."
markvdb 13y ago
Riga, Latvia. Cheap. Very good internet connectivity. Our simple 25m² office: 80€ including heating, electricity and high speed internet. Little bureaucracy. Safe. Contrary to what people seem to think, low corruption. Low taxes, especially for startups. Euro starting from 2014. Plus I like the funny language and (some of) the people. Do take a trip to some sunny destination in the middle of the winter though, because it can get really dark during winter...
outside1234 13y ago
I lived in the south of Spain on the very cheap for a couple of years. Highly recommended - I lived in Conil de la Frontera 200m from ocean for less than 300 euros a month.
varsketiz 13y ago
Check out Vilnius (I'm obviously biased, but bear with me), Lithuania: Cheap: * Cheap rent. 500eu should get you a decent flat in the city centre without much research * Cheap cabs. Cabs that take you around will rarely cost more than 3-4eu * Cheap transportation options with Ryanair and Wizzair * Cheap internet and communications Not many other places will offer this great quality of life for ~1500eu/month. Obviously, you can get around much much cheaper, but I'd say that 1500 - 2000 eu/month is the sweet spot Good: * Fastest internet in Europe. Seriously * People speak english. Everyone under 30 will be able to speak english to you. Might be a little harder to communicate to the older folk without knowing lithuanian/russian * Growing tech community. Regular meetups for ruby / php / js / java / .net usergroups + the biggest developer conference in the Baltics is coming very soon - http://buildstuff.lt/ http://buildstuff.lt/ * Great dinning options. Lunch in my favorite places, some of which have award-winning chef's, will start at 5eu (you can find lunch deals from 3eu). Evening dinning options are great too * One of the largest old-town's in Northern Europe. Very cozy * Funs bars. Can't speak about clubs too much, but there are plenty of bars with cheap beer and great crowd * Lots of interesting stuff to explore within 100km radius - old castles, gorgeous lakes, mighty forests Winters can get a bit cold and dark, especially if you are used to southern climates. Best weather from April to October. Some pictures - http://curiouseggs.com/beautiful-lithuania-25-wonderful-photos/ http://curiouseggs.com/beautiful-lithuania-25-wonderful-phot...
- _vn5r 13y ago
  How easy is it to get a VISA? I'm Nicaraguan.
  - varsketiz 13y ago
    It is the same as other parts of the EU - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Nicaraguan_citizens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Nicaragua...
winter_blue 13y ago
Dubai. - Zero taxes. You nearly double your income! - Low cost of living for a city of its caliber. Rent: <$1k/mo. Food: if you cook, less than $0.5k/mo. Cheap gas/petrol. Lots of fun stuff (indoor ski, etc.) You can live comfortably on <$2k/month. - Easy to get a freelancer visa. You get freelancer visa by setting up a company in a free zone, and issuing a work visa to yourself. This can cost about $5-$7k yearly. Unlike most countries, there are no nonsensical visa rules, or caps (ahem, H1-Bs) -- you're pretty much guaranteed to get one if you apply, no questions asked. [The classic straw man argument against Dubai is that it's in a restrictive non-free country with ultra-orthodox Islamic and what not. This is not really true. It's one of the nicest places in the Middle East, and has a very diverse populace with the vast majority being foreign-born.]
- enneff 13y ago
  Yeah but then you have to live in a totally artificial environment that is a living monument to consumerism.
  - winter_blue 13y ago
    What are you implying here anyways? That the buildings, malls, water theme parks, etc. are artificial? Well then, I'd say most cities are artificial. Unless you want to move into a jungle. Does that count as natural?
    - enneff 13y ago
      I'm implying that the city seems to mostly cater to people whose primary leisure activity is spending money. There's no natural environment to explore there, and it's mostly culturally bereft.
  - brokenparser 13y ago
    a totally awesome environment that is a living monument to modern architecture FTFY. Also, infinity pools.
  - xtracto 13y ago
lmm 13y ago
If cheap is really what matters then Belarus. It's not a nice place to live though.
jaakl 13y ago
There are not that many countries/capitals where I've not been in Europe, so I think I can compare instead of pushing my hometown: My personal top of metropolis: 1. Berlin - great startup stuff, cheap (in context of west Europe/ Germany), sexy, English, easy to adopt from e.g. US 2. Istanbul - cheap, hacker friendly, kiloton of culture, but need to manage/like a bit asian way of life. Best food. 3. London - great startup stuff (services and top people), high costs but high revenues also. So great if you want to earn a lot, not sepend a little. 4. Dublin - low taxes, good startup stuff, all US IT is there (but maybe already working for Google etc), moderate costs, no language problem - Northern countries (Scandinavia, Baltics): good/moderate startup activities (ask me, I'm from there), high costs and also revenues (except Baltics which is vice versa), low corruption, e-services (eg. Estonia: open company in 15 min online). Can manage in English mostly (less in Baltics but still). My key problem: long winter - East Europe: low costs and revenues, high corruption (paperwork/tax pain), problems with English except in small startup enclaves, need local friends (especially bigger countries like Poland, Czech Rep, Romania). If you can cope with this a bit Asian/Russian lifestyle, I'd skip it and go to Istanbul already, you'd have not only pain but also gain of this mess. - South-West Europe - each country is quite different, but generally medium costs and revenues, need to know local language or friend (spanish, italian, french, greek), ton of culture which tends to bring also bureaucracy (expect months to your paper processing) , high living quality.
- izelnakri 13y ago
  Im an istanbullu whos been living in vienna for almost 4 years now. First of all, i do think that vienna is a far better option than istanbul as a whole(including living costs if youre willing to live in a WG-sharedflat). In istanbul people tend to use old and outdated technologies, so talent is quite rare but if u can find some, they will cost u cheaper. Somehow i spend less money in vienna than i do in istanbul, its quite strange i know but thats a fact! Infrastructure in istanbul is quite lame too. Obtaining an austrian living permit should be pretty hard if ure not an EU citizen, i have a student visa. Berlin is probably the best bet, i agree. I just dont agree that istanbul is a hacker-friendly place.
  - TheSmoke 13y ago
fHbjKlf6 13y ago
I'm surprised Malta hasn't been discussed (tiny island in the mediterranean, just south of Sicily). I arrived here 5 years ago thinking it would be a paradise (its not). Below are my generalisations: Upside = Best weather in Europe, English speaking, 100Mb/s fiber, cheap ryanair flights to most of Europe, cheap rent compared to Northern Europe - luxury 3 bed flat around 800 Euro. Downside = Extremely conservative and religious state run by the church (abortion is illegal even if mothers life is at risk - WTF). 10 year prison sentences for possession of Marijauana. Extremely narrow minded people. Ugly, very dry, dirty polluted beaches, lots of rock and very little green. Very poor standard of food at restaurants and even supermarkets. I'm leaving for the Netherlands, can't wait!
- jlengrand 13y ago
  French guy living in the netherlands here! The country is awesome. People are really open minded, and I found a job in a matter of days with no connections at all! Hope you like it as much as me ;)
chosen 13y ago
Chișinău (Moldova). One of the best internet connections in Europe, lots of outsource companies have offices here. Living is probably one of the cheapest in Europe. Welcoming people, a developing country that's moving toward the European Union.
meerita 13y ago
I would vote for Barcelona, Spain. Best spot for flying to all european cities. Best weather, beaches with nice water temperature. Organization, cleanness, respectful people and multicultural: you will hear a lot of english as well other dozens of languages. Life in Barcelona is not so cheap, but compared to other cities it's a dream. I'm living here since 2001 and I will never leave this place I guess. This is an old comment I've submitted to HN telling my expenses in Barcelona https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6618033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6618033

132 points by aristidesfl 13y ago

Similar to the U.S. thread, but for people living in Europe.

Probably one of the crisis countries: Portugal, Greece, etc... Local salaries and prices are especially low, so if you have an external source of income you should be at least upper middle class while living by some of the most gorgeous beaches in the world.

lfittl 13y ago

Personal Preference: Vienna, Austria I'm from there, but part of the reason why I keep coming back is cause its affordable to rent, even in the hip districts (600-700 EUR for 1br) + a great city to live + good bunch of startups + cheap for flying in/out. Prague is similar. Also heard great things about Sofia, but haven't lived there (yet). And Berlin is of course a good option as well.

celebdor 13y ago
Salaries and startup scene in Prague are not by far what you can find in Vienna though.
huhtenberg 13y ago
+1 to this based on anecdotal data from friends. That's if considering former "Western Europe" block of countries and excluding Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and others. Budapest is quite nice too, strong expat community, strong programmers and generally nice people. Bitch of a language though, very contrived.
venomsnake 13y ago
I would strongly recommend against Sofia right now. There is no rule of law in my country as a whole, we are busy overthrowing the government and right now there is increasing xenophobic wave (arabo/islamophobic) due to the influx of Syrian, African and Afghanistan immigrants. Our nationalists are rattling weapons and I think the government will use the foreigners as a lightning rod for the populace anger to keep itself in power. I suppose that during the winter pogroms over them are not out of the question. Actually we had just today a national beaten almost to dead because he is of the Turkish minority and the skinheads mistook him for immigrant. The situation is not nice.
- lfittl 13y ago
  Unfortunate to hear - although there is (less violent) xenophobic behaviour in Austria that I'm worried about as well.
phaer 13y ago
But, in general, you don't live cheaply there especially compared to other cities of the area like Bratislava or Budapest. Prices in Restaurants, Coffee shops, etc are the same as in most other capitals of western Europe. Source: I grew up in Vienna and lived there until 3 month ago. I am now living in Chania, Greece and it's quite cheap to live, has a beautiful old town, nice beaches and fantastic mountains around. The only drawbacks are that there is only a small Linux user group, but the next hacker space is about 3 hours by bus in Iraklio and that it's only cheap as long as you don't have too pay to much taxes.
- lfittl 13y ago
  Yeah, agreed. Its all relative, thats why I used "affordable" instead of "cheap". In my head I compare Vienna with London and the US (SF/NYC/etc) which are 2-3x as expensive, plus healthcare is worse.
- gspyrou 13y ago
  Chania is a great city to live.

forcer 13y ago

You can move to some low-tax or no-tax country. I can recommend Andorra, 0% income tax and reasonable prices for pretty much anything , rent, food, alcohol etc :) I also heard Belarus has almost no tax and its very cheap to live there, but there will be lots of bureaucracy :)

cmdkeen 13y ago
"lots of bureaucracy" being code for authoritarian dictatorship... I suppose if you want to learn about how you don't actually live in a police state in the West you could move there.
- zebra 13y ago
  Not always - in Bulgaria there is lot of bad bureaucracy, but the regime is mix of democracy and oligarchy. The country is almost European country.
PhilipDaineko 13y ago
Hey, I am from Belarus. True about taxes. There are almost no taxes (fixed 9%) for IT companies especially comparing to western countries. But, there are: 1. No shipment from amazon, ebay. 2. Startup culture is in really early stage. People talking about startups, but there are only few of them who have really achieved something 3. Most of European citizens need to have visa (not sure about price) to get there. 4. Coworking/hacker spaces are at the same stage as startup culture. Hope these things will get sorted out in a few years :) However, if someone decides to go work from Minsk - send me note, I will show you around.
collyw 13y ago
What are the job opportunities in Andorra like? I am in Barcelona just now, but I miss the mountains.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

I live in the UK and we use Pounds Sterling. When I travel to any country using the Euro prices are always relatively higher so I would recommend against a country using the Euro. I found this list showing Euro/Non-euro countries: http://www.aph.com/news/knowbeforeyougo/euro_countries.shtml http://www.aph.com/news/knowbeforeyougo/euro_countries.shtml

demallien 13y ago
Well, not always. Estonia for exemple is really cheap, at least compared to France, Germany etc
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  Thanks that's important to point out. My experiences were only in Ireland, France, Belgium and Austria. As someone living in the north of Ireland using Sterling I experience the price difference often every time I travel south and the jumps aren't insignificant.
igravious 13y ago
topic: Ask HN: What's the best place in Europe to live and work cheaply? > I would recommend against a country using the Euro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone Dude, 17 out 27 EU member states use the € with Latvia joining 1 Jan 2014 and Lithuania 1 Jan 2015. Population of Eurozone: 330 million. Good luck coming to Europe and avoiding the Eurozone: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain. Some of these places are really really cheap to live in and work in, and life on the ground varies drastically _within_ countries as well, especially bigger countries like Germany - witness Munich versus Berlin. Yours is the most bizarre advice I've heard in a long long while. For the interested check out the variation in GDP per capita by region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_regions_by_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_regions_by_GD... Goes from ~ €80,000 to ~ €7,000
- k-mcgrady 13y ago

sebkomianos 13y ago

Depends on what you are looking for really. Are you a freelancer? Do you want to join a startup? Want to create one? Do you have clients already or are you on the hunt for some? Do you like big cities or prefer the countryside? Do you want a warm climate or want to stay in during cold nights?

shutupalready 13y ago
When I go into a store and ask the salesman for help, his first question is invariably, What price range are you looking for? Yes, I could answer his question (and the OP could answer your questions), but I prefer not to. I want to hear about all the options. The OP might prefer a warm climate, but he might be willing to tolerate colder weather if he's told it's super cheap or has city-wide free wifi. He might be a freelancer but might change his objective if he heard that a particular country was granting easy visas for startup founders. I know you're trying to be helpful by asking the OP to give a precise spec on what he wants, but this entire discussion would have been far less interesting if he had done so!
epsylon 13y ago
Well, since this answer in this thread might interest people other than OP, feel free to make a suggestion where you explain the pros and the cons!

nader 13y ago

Berlin, definitely. It is the best mix of everything you need.

aristidesfl 13y ago
Except sun light in the winter...
- claudius 13y ago
  That really depends on the winter, but most have two or three sunny days, at least…
  - mercer 13y ago
    I've been told for the past three years that this is an unusually cold winter :-/.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  And you're saying that about Berlin? Try Finland, then :) Yes, winters are an issue for much of Europe and especially for the northern part where much of software industry resides. If that is important for you, then try the cheaper parts near Mediterranean - say, Slovenia is quite nice.
collyw 13y ago
Ok, mountains are not a "need", but Berlin is way too flat for me.

briggers 13y ago

I'm in Sofia, Bulgaria right now, doing contract work for international clients. Rent is generally very cheap, 250EU/mo for a central apartment (12mo lease). I am staying here only a month however, so am paying a lot more. Eating out, beer etc is very cheap. Numbeo gets it about right. Amusingly, most Bulgarians I speak to ask why I would want to come to Bulgaria of all places. I guess it's like many places: great fun to visit or live for a few months but painful for long-term residents. Upsides apart from cheap living: it's a fun, walkable city with a lot of excellent parks and very little traffic. Downsides of living here: shockingly corrupt bureaucracy. That said, I'll head to Romania when my month here is up. I lived in Istanbul previously, so let me know if you want to hear about that too.

Guest98130 13y ago
What did you think of Istanbul? I just spent the last half year living and working in Europe, and I was thinking about returning next year, with Istanbul high on the list for a month or two.
aristidesfl 13y ago
Let us know about Istambul please.
- recuter 13y ago
  Seconded. It seems like a fantastic city, but I'm not sure what to make of the recent troubles or whether I could swing it as an Israeli (but I guess that problem is outside the scope of this thread, still I mentioned it on the off chance somebody has some wisdom to offer besides getting a second passport).
  - askar_yu 13y ago
    By recent troubles if you mean the protests, rest assured that it's nothing to be worried about. At least from personal security perspective. By swinging, do you mean the requirements like visa, work-permit, residency-permit, etc.? While seconding on the previous friendliness of Turks one thing I would add which is also something that struck me from time to time is Turks in Istanbul sometimes in a way are more European than they are "Turkish" (I don't intend to imply that they are mutually exclusive, or anything special for that matter. Just a figurative compare/contrast. I'll err on political correctness for getting the message across.) PS, I spent about 2 years in Istanbul and loved every bit of it.

welder 13y ago

Budapest, Hungary: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=budapest&tbm=isch https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=budapest&tbm=isch Nice downtown apartments are $300 USD/mo.

fvrghl 13y ago
I was just in Budapest. It was really beautiful, but I encountered some of the rudest people I have ever met. I've read on other travel sites that people in Budapest are extremely rude to tourists compared to the rest of Hungary. Maybe it's implied by the nature of this thread that you should learn the language before you move there, but you definitely should for Budapest (assuming you don't want to encounter rudeness).
- riffraff 13y ago
  I moved to budapest years ago, rudeness has been getting worse super-linearly with the increase in tourism. I understand and speak a bit of hungarian now and I keep getting worse service in bars/clubs/shops/restaurants than I got years ago as a broke exchange student speaking broken english. EDIT: mind you, I still think the city has a lot of pros, and could be a great place to live in cheaply while working on your project.
- peterjs 13y ago
  As a matter of fact, I do speak the language. A lot of things feel weird to me when I come to visit the city. I have this uneasy feeling about things like the Hungarian Guard [1][2] - a paramilitary group having a rally on the most most important square in Budapest. Or having a fascist party, as the 3rd biggest, in the Parliament [3]. Yet, there is an incredible amount of gifted people, who are the exact opposite of these jerks. I guess a lot of people here admire undertakings like Prezi, LogMeIn, ArchiCAD/Graphisoft, or Ustream, all coming from Budapest. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Guard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Guard [2] http://www.maszol.ro/uploads/files/userfiles/images/kulfold/2013/J%C3%BAlius/09/magyar_garda_hosok_tere081219.jpeg http://www.maszol.ro/uploads/files/userfiles/images/kulfold/... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik

throwmeaway2525 13y ago

This was the original thread (I think my post led to this one, which split the responses): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6700531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6700531

amix 13y ago

Porto, Portugal: It has a river, sea and beaches, lots of history, nice weather, great food, nice people and it's inexpensive. It also has Ryan Air, which means that you can visit other parts of Europe cheaply (<100 euros for a roundtrip in most cases). I am at least living here now and I enjoy it. If you like a little bigger city then Lisbon, Portugal is also an option.

graeme 13y ago
What's the rent for a 1BR apartment in a nice part of town?
- amix 13y ago
  One of my employees rents a 1BR in near the main square (Aliados) for ~360euro/month (~480USD), but you can find something much cheaper a bit more far away.
croisillon 13y ago
If you don't care of pouring rain from October to May...
aferreira 13y ago
If you're looking to go be a bit away from the city (~1hr by metro), there's two cities called Povoa de Varzim (where I am) / Vila do Conde that have just about everything and are even cheaper.
pedrocr 13y ago
Another important point is that the telecom infrastructure is pretty good. These days getting a 100down/10up Mb/s fiber link will cost you 20-40€ a month, you can get a TV+Internet+Mobile bundle for ~80€ and the urban areas have good coverage of both fiber and 3G/LTE.
- sourc3 13y ago
  Is it easy to get an apartment? Also, can you get around without speaking Portuguese?

cmdkeen 13y ago

Parts of the UK outside London are actually pretty cheap to live in. I live in Edinburgh, slap in the middle of the city, which is also a World Heritage Site. I have a 5 minute walk to work and flat (apartments...) go for £500/800 for a 1/2 bed. Other parts of the UK are much cheaper again.

jarofgreen 13y ago
Seconded. It's also a great city, nice and green, busy and supportive tech scene (monthly meetups and conferences) and thanks to the festivals in August the best shows and artists from around the world will be on your doorstep for a great night out. Add in what Glasgow has to offer (eg great live music gigs) a mere 50mins by train away for even more plus points.
hassy 13y ago
£800 for a two bed on the Royal Mile?
- cmdkeen 13y ago
  New Town :) Living on the Royal Mile is a mad idea, just today someone who used to do it was telling me about the constant bagpipes!
jsoo4 13y ago
Half a bed? Isn't that more like a chair?

rtfm666 13y ago

this shit is gold, please keep anwering! Please include income, rent and possibility of dev jobs, english speaking etc etc

raulriera 13y ago

You can live in the south of Spain for very little... assuming you don't want to live in big cities of course

wizzardy 13y ago
Marbella, Spain is starting to get some attention from investors lately (http://marbellalabs.com http://marbellalabs.com). I really hope we will see more tech people here soon.
- auxbuss 13y ago
  Hey Paul, I worked there a couple of years ago -- 2 mins from the Copper Tower -- but came back to UK, reluctantly. I'd come back at the drop of a hat. I tried to get things going when I was there, particularly at the Málaga tech park. I'd love to know what's going on.
dsthode 13y ago
+1 for that. I live in Malaga and prices are OK. You can find a 1BR apartment from 300€, maybe 250€. Not much tech/startup scene, if you want to engage in this field. There is a technology park where you can find job offers in technology (development, IT), although some of them are from IT consulting firms with low wages and long hours, so you better choose wisely. The weather is very good, 30°-35°C in the summer, and 10°-15°C in winter. And you have a wide variety of beaches along the coast (you will be in the Costa del Sol) There are very good connections with the rest of European cities via its airport, and you can get cheap flights with RyanAir.

zalew 13y ago

define cheap, but: Warsaw (I may be obviously biased). Berlin. beautiful Praha (no idea how the tech market looks like there though).

eCa 13y ago
How would you rate Krakow compared to Warsaw? Numbeo says it's a bit cheaper[1]? [1] http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Poland&city1=Warsaw&country2=Poland&city2=Krakow+%28Cracow%29&displayCurrency=USD http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...
- zalew 13y ago
  Basically every place in Poland is cheaper than Warsaw. Comparing any Polish city to Warsaw economically will give the obvious same results on every aspect, but these cities are completely different breeds of horse. Krakow is more visually appealing and is loved for its historical and cultural value, and a kind of bohemian vibe. Business has boomed significantly during the last decade down there and it's getting more attractive. I've heard it faces serious pollution problems, and in some areas crime is more significant than in Warsaw (which in general is a pretty safe place). When it comes to 'big city life', making money and riding on the fast lane in the land of opportunities, Warsaw is considered that place (saying it's the NY of Poland would be a bit of a stretch, but you get my point). As for the general vibe, Warsaw is the kind of big city you love or hate with a passion, there is no middle ground. You need to learn it and it will be for you what you want it to be. So, whether you're more happy here or there depends on what you are really looking for. For cheaper city alternatives, I've heard a lot of positives about Wroclaw, but I honestly don't know much about it. Disclaimer: I'm locally patriotic, but that said I sincerely believe Warsaw is the place to be, YMMV.
Spone 13y ago
I would warmly recommend Warsaw, Krakow or Wroclaw
- BTurkE 13y ago

lfx 13y ago

Try Lithuania. Rent is about 180-400 EU/mo. Weather is good, not too hot, not too cold. Sun/rain ratio is nice. Cities is not too big, so during season bicycling is preferable. Also public transport is ok. Food for 2 person family is about 150 EU/mo. Streets is safe for foreigners. And Internet is super fast and super cheap here. And there is nice and informative video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO4tbV4UHk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO4tbV4UHk

croisillon 13y ago
Quite cold + dead nature from September to April, especially cold and white from January to March
- lfx 13y ago
  Perfect environment for distraction free work in the office.
  - croisillon 13y ago
    If you don't slide or freeze on your way.

nmbdesign 13y ago

Montenegro is a quite nice place for a freelancer, beaches/good weather/very cheap prices and rent

levosmetalo 13y ago
That's all good and well unless you want to take a shower during the daylight in the summer. Just make sure that your apartment has water all the time, and you will enjoy Montenegro.
dchest 13y ago
Yeah, weather is unusually nice right now, but not in winter: huge winds and rains. In summer it's so hot that you wouldn't want to work.
podviaznikov 13y ago
How is Internet now there? It was not good 2 years ago. Just few providers, bad speed...

brunooo 13y ago

From someone who has a strong culture & tech ecosystem balance bias: - Berlin: It's the perfect combination of cheap living costs and OKish (growing) tech community - As mentioned pretty much everything from Paris to Kiev gets really dark & cold in winter, and not in a NY/Chicago cool way. - More and more people (especially British) move to Spain, mostly Barcelona. Not as good in terms of startup community as Berlin, but at least equally cheap & decent regarding arts. Personal bottom line if you want to spend the whole year in Europe: Barcelona in Winter, Berlin in summer, and using LCC fares to get to London for interesting meetups etc.

mercer 13y ago
Doesn't Barcelona get pretty chilly in the winter months? I mean, not as bad as Berlin, but still cold. I've heard even Valencia gets to around 10 degrees celcius in winter.

andrew_isidoro 13y ago

Cardiff, Wales. Not only a great place to live but also has a vibrant and growing digital community: http://cardiffstart.com http://cardiffstart.com http://cardiffdigital.com http://cardiffdigital.com

thibaut_barrere 13y ago

We picked France's Charente Maritime (http://goo.gl/maps/rIFK6 http://goo.gl/maps/rIFK6) to bootstrap and do remote freelancing: rural, the sea is nearby, great food/wine/cheese, weather is warm (but not overly hot in the summer). You can find houses around 600€/mo, we bought our 150k€ including swimming-pool.

wcfields 13y ago

Ljubljana, Slovenia is really nice. It's a mix of east & west, uses Euros/EU, and rent is fairly inexpensive. I met a few ex-pat Americans that were working in tech / IT. No one will ever expect you to learn Slovenian too, it's such a complicated language that unless you were a native speaker, it's next to impossible to speak correctly.

ofk88 13y ago

I live in Munich since 1 year. I am originally from Istanbul. I guess Munich has the highest salaries in Europe. But the city is a bit expensive. I pay 755 euro for a 36 square meters apartment. Berlin is another option. It's a very international city and cheap but the salaries are lower. After Istanbul, Munich seems like a dead village to me. I still can't get used to that streets are totally empty after 9-10 pm. Istanbul is an amazing city. And a lots of job opportunities there. Better climate than Germany. You can't earn as much as Germany but you can still catch the same life standards.

tonfa 13y ago
> I guess Munich has the highest salaries in Europe. But the city is a bit expensive. I pay 755 euro for a 36 square meters apartment. You should try Zurich (higher for both: salaries and rent) ;)
gst 13y ago
Haven't lived in Munich yet, but I expect salaries in cities like London or Zurich to be significantly higher.
- camus2 13y ago
  Zurich is VERY expensive.Switzerland is expensive in general.
  - collyw 13y ago
    Well as long as you are earning more than you spend, that not a problem.On the other hand if you don't then, you may as well go for one of the cheap countries.....
briggers 13y ago
I think the job situation in Istanbul is more complicated if you don't speak Turkish. My Singaporean gf (native English, excellent education) had a lot of trouble finding office work in Istanbul. I believe Turkish is spoken throughout most companies. Just as you say, after Istanbul every city feels empty and lifeless!

emilsundberg 13y ago

I would recommend you to keep out of Eastern Europe. The people there wants to believe they have left their history behind but they haven't. When I visited Budapest the police acted as Stasi and on the local metro they only asks foreigners for valid tickets. Very unfriendly. I would never recommend anyone going there.

zalew 13y ago
Budapest ticket inspectors are not a representative of the Eastern Europe region, you know?
lgieron 13y ago
You might have as well generalised that experience to the whole northern hemisphere, would be as justified.
PeterisP 13y ago
In the recent years Hungary seems to come up repeatedly in media with a much stronger anti-outsider sentiment than the neighboring countries. I have no firsthand experiences like that (traveled for a few days through there 2 years ago, no such observations) - but can locals elaborate, is it really so or just media exaggeration?

AlexanderDhoore 13y ago

I guess France, Belgium and the Netherlands are out of the question? Since you included "cheaply".

virtualwhys 13y ago
550 Euros a month down here in the Landes region of France, with high speed internet, 5 minute walk from the beach and world class surf (depending on the season). Probably going to migrate south to the Algarve in Portugal for the winter -- northern european rain, wind, cold are not my cup of tea...
NicoJuicy 13y ago
Belguim: receive 40 % of your wadger and the governmentis still stacking debt amd selling buildings and taking payments in advance on future income.. Socialism: spending money you don't have...

chozero 13y ago

Canary Islands, Spain, is one of them. Good weather all year round, good internet connection in many places and plenty of flight connections to most important cities in Europe. Affordable prices for housing and food. You just need to avoid the too touristic places.

albertoperdomo 13y ago

If you don't care much about a startup and tech scene (there is little) you can spend a nice time in the Canary Islands, Spain. It's not the cheapest place in Europe, you'll find cheaper locations in Eastern Europe admittedly. Still, you can find a nice 1BR appartment for €400-500/mo in Las Palmas City near the beach or share an appartment for somewhere around €200/mo for a room. The weather is really really nice throughout the whole year with lots of sun and there's no real winter. Temp. in the city during the winter can be approx. 18º Celsius. The summers are not extremely hot, rather nice temperatures around 25º. There's some co-working places where you can get a desk for €100/mo (half days) or €150/mo (full days). There's a lot of activities that you can do almost throughout the entire year: surfing, boadyboarding, scuba diving, swimming, biking, hiking, climbing and any other outdoor activity. There's plenty of bars and clubs and the nightlife is very lively. Please leave a comment if you want to know more.

albertoperdomo 13y ago
BTW, I was born and raised here. I spent 8 years living in Germany and 1 year living in Ireland. Afterwards I decided to move back here 8 years ago and don't have regrets. ;)
styrmis 13y ago
Sounds great, I would certainly like to hear more about it. Could you drop me a line via the email in my profile please?
throwawayyyz 13y ago
What do you think about raising kids there?
- albertoperdomo 13y ago
  Well, I have no kids, but some of my friends. Child care or kindergarten is pretty affordable, around €300/mo. If you're a legal citizen (e.g. European or w/ work permit) public schools are free, you just pay for the food, which is around €50/mo, buy materials and uniform. If you want to pay special attention to their education regarding foreign languages and having higher chances to move elsewhere after school or at some point during school age, there are British, American, German and French schools. All of them are private or semi-private and cost up to €500/mo. If you're considering moving here in the mid/long term, the biggest issue is work. The job market here very bad at the moment, with really high rates of unemployment. You shouldn't care about this if you're able to work/freelance remotely. In this case, working for UK/Germany/Northern Europe/USA clients will leave margins better than any job you'll find locally and you'll be able to make a good living. I run a company employing 8 people in total (incl. founders) and we have clients from Spain, Germany, USA. We've been doing this for 8 years. If you or your partner are looking for a job in the local market, the biggest areas are tourism (many million visitors / year) but you can also make a good living teaching English lessons if you're native and stuff like that.

kushti 13y ago

Berlin(relatively cheap, well developed tech scene, big), Prague(amazing city, cheap, well developed tech scene, not so big and not small(1.2M population)), Bratislava(small and quiet)

kephra 13y ago

I would recommend my hometown for self employed, small companies and freelancers: Bremen/Germany Bremen was a harbor and shipyard town 30 years ago. Now most shipyards are bankrupt, and the harbor seldom sees big ships. Rentals are really cheap, e.g. I'm paying Euro208 warm (including heating, water, waste, etc - excluding electricity 64Euros and internet SDSL+Cable ~ 50Euro) for two small rooms plus a big kitchen. So I can smoke at my computer, sleep in a room where I dont smoke and host guests at the kitchen. Houses are also cheap, sometimes only Euro40k. Bremen is a medium size (500k inhabitants) green city with parks everywhere, and gardens around the houses. You can ride bicycle everywhere. We have a good public transport. Its long and narrow. So regardless where you live, you are in walking distance to the river, and in walking distance to the rural. It basically feels like a suburb, but with good transport, and bicycle lanes. Internet is cheap and available, e.g. 30mbit cable for Euro30/month or 100mbit cable for Euro40/month. Ryan air is at our airport, so you can fly within Europe for Euro19, if you pick the right time at night for ordering a ticket. Bremen is a free Hanse city and friendly to foreigners. One of our mottos are "Am nettesten sind die Zugereisten" (the nicest people here are from outside). Citizen here are traditional left wing, so neo-nazi's have a very hard stand, and are seldom seen in public. Bremen has a friendly police, and a sane drug policy. You can smoke marijuana at the dike, and the police will greet you while riding bicycle, and its usual that junkies are sitting in a small park behind the police station. Especially Bremen-Nord (north part of Bremen) has a very friendly small tax office, with great newbie support, and public servants who care for your business. The drawbacks are high unemployment, low wages, and its nearly impossible to get a developers job outside of the military industrial complex. Also others claim that we are cold. Its hard to learn new people in a pub, but thats easier if you are from outside Germany. But we prefer to gather in clubs (e.g. we have 2 hacker spaces). We have several sport clubs, that are affordable, e.g. most working class sailing clubs costs Euro100/year for adults with own yachts. We often joke that Bremen has always good weather: In winter its warm and rainy, and in summer its raining and warm, thanks to gulf stream.

pyvpx 13y ago
what are the VISA requirements like for someone from a western country (say, the US or Canada)? If I wanted to live in Germany for a full year, is there a way to do so working independently (i.e. without a German corporation sponsoring a work VISA)? thanks.

nolok 13y ago

Question for the people answering: how do you handle revenu/salary taxes ? I see no mention of it in any post, do you keep paying in your home country, or do you pay in each countries ?

ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
For the case of normal income, usually income tax is paid to the country where you are working. The U.S. also claims the ability to tax the income of U.S. citizens working in other countries, but for incomes below $97k/year the Foreign Income Exclusion prevents double taxation. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei...
DrJokepu 13y ago
In the EU you pay income tax in the member state where you have earned your income. Some countries of the world (notably the United States of America) require its citizens and permanent residents to pay income tax on foreign earned income as well (in some cases). No EU member states have such requirement.
- aristidesfl 13y ago
  This is not entirely true. There are laws in many EU countries to prevent tax evasion which make you pay tax income on the country you have citizenship in, specially if you claim to be working from a known tax haven. Yes there is a list for that.
  - albertoperdomo 13y ago
    You can live in Spain for example and work and generate revenue and pay taxes within you country of origin. I think the criteria is you're officially living and working where you spend more than 50% of the year. So I know people that spend less than 50% in a different country, and making revenue and paying taxes within their country, legally.

firegrind 13y ago

gibraltar if you commute by foot from spain. predominantly, the tech culture is based around established gaming and finance companies. english is the lingua franca in work hours.

wrongc0ntinent 13y ago

Anyone with input about Valencia, Spain?

kcovia 13y ago

I like to plan a fun little game on AirBnB for this. Put in Europe as the destination, <$600 per month as the price, and a month as the duration. It'll show you available apartments in everywhere from Sicily to Northern Germany. https://www.airbnb.com/s/Europe?checkin=12%2F01%2F2013&checkout=01%2F01%2F2014&room_types%5B%5D=Entire+home%2Fapt&price_max=620&sw_lat=24.17207670154004&sw_lng=-5.463239690095634&ne_lat=57.627875350960224&ne_lng=33.823869684904366&search_by_map=true https://www.airbnb.com/s/Europe?checkin=12%2F01%2F2013&check...

recuter 13y ago
That is a most excellent game, problem is a lot of these are way out in the boonies. For instance I saw a beautiful place at a medieval Italian town for $28/day, its great! But I get the feeling there is nothing to do there after a couple of days so a month seems excessive. Could be wrong.
aristidesfl 13y ago
Airbnb monthly prices will be considerably higher than what you can find locally though. Nevertheless is useful to do a relative comparison.
- franklovecchio 13y ago
  Where's a good place to find rentals outside of AirBnB if you're not physically there yet and want to plan ahead?

fun2have 13y ago

I would go for Lisbon. It has very good and cheap flight connections to the rest of Europe (not good to the West Coast of America). Easyjet, and RyanAir fly out of Lisbon, and the national airline TAP is very good and only slightly more expensive. Very nice weather. We still have not turned on the heating yet. You can live cheaply and well. It may not be the cheapest cheapest in Europe, but is good value for money. For example at a restaurant opposite our office for only 5€ you can have a freshly grilled Sea Bass or a steak. Office rents are cheap as well. Expect to pay from 6€ to 10€ per m3. So you can out source the cooking and even the driving cheaply. A taxi to the airport will set you back just 8€. Somebody I know just rented a two bed apartment in the centre of town for 440€ per month. There is a vibrant Start Up Community. Some really good people. For us the decision was more than just cost, but also standard of living. You can find more details here in why we decided to open an office here: http://blog.webnographer.com/2010/10/an-rd-office-in-lisbon/ http://blog.webnographer.com/2010/10/an-rd-office-in-lisbon/

dbs 13y ago
Gotta love the story: A story, that had been told to my brothers, and me since we where small, also helps explains my strong connections to Portugal: In the 1960′s my father, a journalist, was in the Congo covering the war after it’s independence from Belgium. The car he was driving had skidded off the road, and turned over. United Nation’s troops passed him by without stopping, but suddenly out of nowhere a bunch of Portuguese cigarette smugglers appeared. They dragged him out of the car into their car, then sped him across the border, and dropped him of at a hotel… My rescuers bought me a large South African brandy at the bar, gave 500 Rothmans [cigarettes], checked my wallet to see I had enough cash, then left me, delivered back to my native culture, never to see them again. It was the first time I had met Portuguese knowingly – and my first encounter, not only with their extraordinary reaching-out to a stranger in need, but with their blend of bravado, honour, ingenuity and poise. Extract from The First Global Village: How Portugal Changed the World, by Martin Page

istorical 13y ago

I'm building an online community/wiki to try to find the answer to this question and others like it. So far I've gotten responses from more than 100 expats, long-term travelers, and nomads about different places they've lived. You might be interested in reading some of the posts people have contributed so far. Link: http://www.istorical.com http://www.istorical.com

istorical 13y ago
But to actually contribute here: I'd recommend Prague: http://www.istorical.com/cities/prague/experiences/127 http://www.istorical.com/cities/prague/experiences/127 [Are you able to afford a better standard of living in Prague than in other places you've lived, or able to afford less?] "Money certainly goes a lot farther here. For one thing, the shops are terrible, so there's nowhere to indulge yourself if you want to go crazy with your credit card. Parking in the city centre is next to impossible but the public transportation system here is safe, clean and a pleasure to use so there's no need to drive a car. The rent compared to other European cities is pretty cheap although times are changing and costs are going up in general. When I first visited Prague, a beer was less than a euro and you only needed to work three days a week to live like a king. But just like anywhere else, you can either pay through the nose for an apartment or get one really cheap by developing the right contacts. The drugs and clothes are more expensive and much poorer quality than in the UK but everything else is generally much cheaper. We live right in the centre of the city so I'm not sure how that compares to the outer edges of the city but we pay 18,000.00 CZK = 698.377 EUR for 90, sq meter apartment with 1 large bedroom, kitchen and living room plus a decent-sized balcony that looks out over the street. That price includes all janitor services, wi-fi and cable TV. This is way more expensive than what I was paying for a three-bedroom house on the outskirts of London but hey, it's Prague."

markvdb 13y ago

Riga, Latvia. Cheap. Very good internet connectivity. Our simple 25m² office: 80€ including heating, electricity and high speed internet. Little bureaucracy. Safe. Contrary to what people seem to think, low corruption. Low taxes, especially for startups. Euro starting from 2014. Plus I like the funny language and (some of) the people. Do take a trip to some sunny destination in the middle of the winter though, because it can get really dark during winter...

outside1234 13y ago

I lived in the south of Spain on the very cheap for a couple of years. Highly recommended - I lived in Conil de la Frontera 200m from ocean for less than 300 euros a month.

varsketiz 13y ago

Check out Vilnius (I'm obviously biased, but bear with me), Lithuania: Cheap: * Cheap rent. 500eu should get you a decent flat in the city centre without much research * Cheap cabs. Cabs that take you around will rarely cost more than 3-4eu * Cheap transportation options with Ryanair and Wizzair * Cheap internet and communications Not many other places will offer this great quality of life for ~1500eu/month. Obviously, you can get around much much cheaper, but I'd say that 1500 - 2000 eu/month is the sweet spot Good: * Fastest internet in Europe. Seriously * People speak english. Everyone under 30 will be able to speak english to you. Might be a little harder to communicate to the older folk without knowing lithuanian/russian * Growing tech community. Regular meetups for ruby / php / js / java / .net usergroups + the biggest developer conference in the Baltics is coming very soon - http://buildstuff.lt/ http://buildstuff.lt/ * Great dinning options. Lunch in my favorite places, some of which have award-winning chef's, will start at 5eu (you can find lunch deals from 3eu). Evening dinning options are great too * One of the largest old-town's in Northern Europe. Very cozy * Funs bars. Can't speak about clubs too much, but there are plenty of bars with cheap beer and great crowd * Lots of interesting stuff to explore within 100km radius - old castles, gorgeous lakes, mighty forests Winters can get a bit cold and dark, especially if you are used to southern climates. Best weather from April to October. Some pictures - http://curiouseggs.com/beautiful-lithuania-25-wonderful-photos/ http://curiouseggs.com/beautiful-lithuania-25-wonderful-phot...

_vn5r 13y ago
How easy is it to get a VISA? I'm Nicaraguan.
- varsketiz 13y ago
  It is the same as other parts of the EU - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Nicaraguan_citizens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Nicaragua...

winter_blue 13y ago

Dubai. - Zero taxes. You nearly double your income! - Low cost of living for a city of its caliber. Rent: <$1k/mo. Food: if you cook, less than $0.5k/mo. Cheap gas/petrol. Lots of fun stuff (indoor ski, etc.) You can live comfortably on <$2k/month. - Easy to get a freelancer visa. You get freelancer visa by setting up a company in a free zone, and issuing a work visa to yourself. This can cost about $5-$7k yearly. Unlike most countries, there are no nonsensical visa rules, or caps (ahem, H1-Bs) -- you're pretty much guaranteed to get one if you apply, no questions asked. [The classic straw man argument against Dubai is that it's in a restrictive non-free country with ultra-orthodox Islamic and what not. This is not really true. It's one of the nicest places in the Middle East, and has a very diverse populace with the vast majority being foreign-born.]

enneff 13y ago
Yeah but then you have to live in a totally artificial environment that is a living monument to consumerism.
- winter_blue 13y ago
  What are you implying here anyways? That the buildings, malls, water theme parks, etc. are artificial? Well then, I'd say most cities are artificial. Unless you want to move into a jungle. Does that count as natural?
  - enneff 13y ago
    I'm implying that the city seems to mostly cater to people whose primary leisure activity is spending money. There's no natural environment to explore there, and it's mostly culturally bereft.
- brokenparser 13y ago
  a totally awesome environment that is a living monument to modern architecture FTFY. Also, infinity pools.
- xtracto 13y ago

lmm 13y ago

If cheap is really what matters then Belarus. It's not a nice place to live though.

jaakl 13y ago

There are not that many countries/capitals where I've not been in Europe, so I think I can compare instead of pushing my hometown: My personal top of metropolis: 1. Berlin - great startup stuff, cheap (in context of west Europe/ Germany), sexy, English, easy to adopt from e.g. US 2. Istanbul - cheap, hacker friendly, kiloton of culture, but need to manage/like a bit asian way of life. Best food. 3. London - great startup stuff (services and top people), high costs but high revenues also. So great if you want to earn a lot, not sepend a little. 4. Dublin - low taxes, good startup stuff, all US IT is there (but maybe already working for Google etc), moderate costs, no language problem - Northern countries (Scandinavia, Baltics): good/moderate startup activities (ask me, I'm from there), high costs and also revenues (except Baltics which is vice versa), low corruption, e-services (eg. Estonia: open company in 15 min online). Can manage in English mostly (less in Baltics but still). My key problem: long winter - East Europe: low costs and revenues, high corruption (paperwork/tax pain), problems with English except in small startup enclaves, need local friends (especially bigger countries like Poland, Czech Rep, Romania). If you can cope with this a bit Asian/Russian lifestyle, I'd skip it and go to Istanbul already, you'd have not only pain but also gain of this mess. - South-West Europe - each country is quite different, but generally medium costs and revenues, need to know local language or friend (spanish, italian, french, greek), ton of culture which tends to bring also bureaucracy (expect months to your paper processing) , high living quality.

izelnakri 13y ago
Im an istanbullu whos been living in vienna for almost 4 years now. First of all, i do think that vienna is a far better option than istanbul as a whole(including living costs if youre willing to live in a WG-sharedflat). In istanbul people tend to use old and outdated technologies, so talent is quite rare but if u can find some, they will cost u cheaper. Somehow i spend less money in vienna than i do in istanbul, its quite strange i know but thats a fact! Infrastructure in istanbul is quite lame too. Obtaining an austrian living permit should be pretty hard if ure not an EU citizen, i have a student visa. Berlin is probably the best bet, i agree. I just dont agree that istanbul is a hacker-friendly place.
- TheSmoke 13y ago

fHbjKlf6 13y ago

I'm surprised Malta hasn't been discussed (tiny island in the mediterranean, just south of Sicily). I arrived here 5 years ago thinking it would be a paradise (its not). Below are my generalisations: Upside = Best weather in Europe, English speaking, 100Mb/s fiber, cheap ryanair flights to most of Europe, cheap rent compared to Northern Europe - luxury 3 bed flat around 800 Euro. Downside = Extremely conservative and religious state run by the church (abortion is illegal even if mothers life is at risk - WTF). 10 year prison sentences for possession of Marijauana. Extremely narrow minded people. Ugly, very dry, dirty polluted beaches, lots of rock and very little green. Very poor standard of food at restaurants and even supermarkets. I'm leaving for the Netherlands, can't wait!

jlengrand 13y ago
French guy living in the netherlands here! The country is awesome. People are really open minded, and I found a job in a matter of days with no connections at all! Hope you like it as much as me ;)

chosen 13y ago

Chișinău (Moldova). One of the best internet connections in Europe, lots of outsource companies have offices here. Living is probably one of the cheapest in Europe. Welcoming people, a developing country that's moving toward the European Union.

meerita 13y ago

I would vote for Barcelona, Spain. Best spot for flying to all european cities. Best weather, beaches with nice water temperature. Organization, cleanness, respectful people and multicultural: you will hear a lot of english as well other dozens of languages. Life in Barcelona is not so cheap, but compared to other cities it's a dream. I'm living here since 2001 and I will never leave this place I guess. This is an old comment I've submitted to HN telling my expenses in Barcelona https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6618033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6618033