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What exactly are you getting at? Datacenters do use potable water from municipal sources for evaporative cooling. Are you claiming that's not true? Here's a re

What exactly are you getting at? Datacenters do use potable water from municipal sources for evaporative cooling. Are you claiming that's not true? Here's a recent source: https://pacinst.org/publication/how-much-water-do-data-centers-use-and-why-does-it-matter/ https://pacinst.org/publication/how-much-water-do-data-cente...

jpalawaga 13d ago
Some do, some use closed-loop systems that are essentially 'charge once'. higher energy use, but less water
- asciimike 13d ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvoted, most of the new facilities (e.g. Stargate) are running closed loop systems. PUE goes up a bit if you have to use chillers, but ultimately it's faster/easier to build a large facility in a closed loop fashion than get water (permitting, treatment, etc.). NVIDIA pushing 45C inlet temps is to allow facilities to run dry coolers instead of chillers and make this even easier! Two phase cooling (required above ~3kW TDP) would eliminate water use in the secondary loop (if not the primary, eventually).
lokar 13d ago
Yeah, it’s one thing when SV runs the Uber script (ignoring the law to build big enough to buy politicians) to hurt cab drivers. It’s very different when it’s your neighborhood.
bluGill 13d ago
They do use water, and the numbers look very large which makes for big scary headlines. However people who actually know how water is used in a city are used to numbers much larger than that.
- ratelimitsteve 13d ago
  it's the demand delta, not the total demand, that's concerning. Also not all use cases are created equal: using water to keep people alive is legitimate and using water to build a machine that can automatically almost count the number of vowels in a sentence is not legitimate, especially when that usage drives up demand and makes it harder to use water to keep people alive.
  - shepherdjerred 13d ago
    Why do you get to choose what is and isn’t legitimate?
    - estearum 13d ago
      Well "you" don't "get to", but this is precisely why we made the concept "states" and use "state power" to counteract other natural modalities of power. Which is being demonstrated by the use of state power to kill data center development.
      - unknownfuture 13d ago
        Yeah but it's all Chinese propaganda so it doesn't count this time. /s
    - ratelimitsteve 13d ago
      there's a really special type of crowd to whom you can say "People staying alive is good" and their response is "SOURCE??!!!"
      - shepherdjerred 12d ago
        What are you trying to achieve by posting comments like this? You're not trying to have a discussion at all.
    - _DeadFred_ 12d ago
      Because the water system is a public utility funded by the people who live within the community? Little Red hen, why do you get to choose who get's to eat your bread?
luxuryballs 13d ago
Why and how would they contaminate the water supply though? Sounds like a municipality problem, a water consumer shouldn't be feeding back into the system, or is it being caused by poorly executed construction practices? Maybe when they first pipe in or something is being left open during construction, this seems like it shouldn't happen if things are being done properly, water supply systems are not a new technology so who is dropping the ball?
- estearum 13d ago
  Yeah, all these stupid little municipalities have to do is shit they've literally never had to do before while getting sued out of their socks by literal trillion dollar companies. That's all it takes for them to do their part in generating gargantuan amounts of value for people who live 1,000 miles away and their uberwealthy hardly-human CEOs and investors.
  - luxuryballs 12d ago
    what is it that they have to do? I'm still confused as to what is causing the water to change
    - estearum 12d ago
      Have you considered Googling? Or is this the type of curiosity that one just offloads to others? https://fieldreport.caes.uga.edu/publications/TP121/how-data-centers-impact-surface-and-ground-waters/ https://fieldreport.caes.uga.edu/publications/TP121/how-data...
      - luxuryballs 11d ago
        it's social media, and a human who strongly signals they know something is usually much more reliable than a search engine for knowing the real upshot, 9 times out of 10 the person who already has a strong opinion has keyed in on the detail that even if I found a search result might not be so easy to decipher, or you could have some professional experience, anyways it was worth a shot, thanks for sharing
semiquaver 13d ago
golf courses use much more. But you don’t see massive resistance against new golf courses being planned. Farms use an order of magnitude more than either. You don’t see any demands whatsoever on agriculture to reduce water usage.
- citrin_ru 13d ago
  I would expect that a golf course construction is relatively rare event. And there is definitely no explosion of new golf courses. Total DC power consumption growth is practically exponential for the last 5 years.
  - gruez 13d ago
    >I would expect that a golf course construction is relatively rare event That's just status quo bias, given that they're an ongoing source of water consumption. "oh it doesn't matter that [thing] is guzzling water, because it's already there!".
    - daveguy 13d ago
      Exactly right. It's a lot easier to prevent an asshat venture than it is to dismantle it. Now that the public is aware, I wouldn't be surprised if new golf courses start getting the same treatment.
      - semiquaver 13d ago
        They haven’t been. I’m aware of new golf courses being planned in my area and I hear nothing but enthusiasm. Literally no one brings up water consumption as a concern. This whole thing is a sublimation of vaguer anxieties about AI (which are perfectly rational!) into areas where people feel like they can make more concrete objections that are likelier to succeed. The water thing is completely fake, whether people think so or not.
        daveguy 13d ago

jpalawaga 13d ago

Some do, some use closed-loop systems that are essentially 'charge once'. higher energy use, but less water

asciimike 13d ago
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, most of the new facilities (e.g. Stargate) are running closed loop systems. PUE goes up a bit if you have to use chillers, but ultimately it's faster/easier to build a large facility in a closed loop fashion than get water (permitting, treatment, etc.). NVIDIA pushing 45C inlet temps is to allow facilities to run dry coolers instead of chillers and make this even easier! Two phase cooling (required above ~3kW TDP) would eliminate water use in the secondary loop (if not the primary, eventually).

lokar 13d ago

Yeah, it’s one thing when SV runs the Uber script (ignoring the law to build big enough to buy politicians) to hurt cab drivers. It’s very different when it’s your neighborhood.

bluGill 13d ago

They do use water, and the numbers look very large which makes for big scary headlines. However people who actually know how water is used in a city are used to numbers much larger than that.

ratelimitsteve 13d ago
it's the demand delta, not the total demand, that's concerning. Also not all use cases are created equal: using water to keep people alive is legitimate and using water to build a machine that can automatically almost count the number of vowels in a sentence is not legitimate, especially when that usage drives up demand and makes it harder to use water to keep people alive.
- shepherdjerred 13d ago
  Why do you get to choose what is and isn’t legitimate?
  - estearum 13d ago
    Well "you" don't "get to", but this is precisely why we made the concept "states" and use "state power" to counteract other natural modalities of power. Which is being demonstrated by the use of state power to kill data center development.
    - unknownfuture 13d ago
      Yeah but it's all Chinese propaganda so it doesn't count this time. /s
  - ratelimitsteve 13d ago
    there's a really special type of crowd to whom you can say "People staying alive is good" and their response is "SOURCE??!!!"
    - shepherdjerred 12d ago
      What are you trying to achieve by posting comments like this? You're not trying to have a discussion at all.
  - _DeadFred_ 12d ago
    Because the water system is a public utility funded by the people who live within the community? Little Red hen, why do you get to choose who get's to eat your bread?

luxuryballs 13d ago

Why and how would they contaminate the water supply though? Sounds like a municipality problem, a water consumer shouldn't be feeding back into the system, or is it being caused by poorly executed construction practices? Maybe when they first pipe in or something is being left open during construction, this seems like it shouldn't happen if things are being done properly, water supply systems are not a new technology so who is dropping the ball?

estearum 13d ago
Yeah, all these stupid little municipalities have to do is shit they've literally never had to do before while getting sued out of their socks by literal trillion dollar companies. That's all it takes for them to do their part in generating gargantuan amounts of value for people who live 1,000 miles away and their uberwealthy hardly-human CEOs and investors.
- luxuryballs 12d ago
  what is it that they have to do? I'm still confused as to what is causing the water to change
  - estearum 12d ago
    Have you considered Googling? Or is this the type of curiosity that one just offloads to others? https://fieldreport.caes.uga.edu/publications/TP121/how-data-centers-impact-surface-and-ground-waters/ https://fieldreport.caes.uga.edu/publications/TP121/how-data...
    - luxuryballs 11d ago
      it's social media, and a human who strongly signals they know something is usually much more reliable than a search engine for knowing the real upshot, 9 times out of 10 the person who already has a strong opinion has keyed in on the detail that even if I found a search result might not be so easy to decipher, or you could have some professional experience, anyways it was worth a shot, thanks for sharing

semiquaver 13d ago

golf courses use much more. But you don’t see massive resistance against new golf courses being planned. Farms use an order of magnitude more than either. You don’t see any demands whatsoever on agriculture to reduce water usage.

citrin_ru 13d ago
I would expect that a golf course construction is relatively rare event. And there is definitely no explosion of new golf courses. Total DC power consumption growth is practically exponential for the last 5 years.
- gruez 13d ago
  >I would expect that a golf course construction is relatively rare event That's just status quo bias, given that they're an ongoing source of water consumption. "oh it doesn't matter that [thing] is guzzling water, because it's already there!".
  - daveguy 13d ago
    Exactly right. It's a lot easier to prevent an asshat venture than it is to dismantle it. Now that the public is aware, I wouldn't be surprised if new golf courses start getting the same treatment.
    - semiquaver 13d ago
      They haven’t been. I’m aware of new golf courses being planned in my area and I hear nothing but enthusiasm. Literally no one brings up water consumption as a concern. This whole thing is a sublimation of vaguer anxieties about AI (which are perfectly rational!) into areas where people feel like they can make more concrete objections that are likelier to succeed. The water thing is completely fake, whether people think so or not.
      - daveguy 13d ago