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It's a hard one. I feel the UK were wrong to leave but Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life without and I'm not sure the benefits of

It's a hard one. I feel the UK were wrong to leave but Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life without and I'm not sure the benefits of membership unless you are financially poor country. Iceland is probably better off joining the Schengen but not EU.

spiderfarmer 18d ago
It's a bit different with fishery as the backbone of your economy vs. oil, minerals and banking.
ChocolateGod 18d ago
It's already in the Schengen. Iceland already heavily integrated into the EU, the only outliers are currency, foreign policy, security, political institutions, customs and some trading sectors like fishing. Currency (since the exchange rate to the Euro is what sets pricing in Iceland) and security are the reasons many want to get closer.
- walthamstow 18d ago
  What do they get in security from the EU that they don't get from NATO? Is it so they can get in on the new joint EU defence funds?
  - ChocolateGod 18d ago
    The US being an unreliable partner.
yvdriess 18d ago
Iceland already is Schengen
adamtulinius 18d ago
Iceland is already a member of Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
earthnail 18d ago
The Norwegian PM said to Britain back then “don’t repeat our mistake. We need to, in practice, follow all the EU’s rules and don’t get any say in it”
- SahAssar 18d ago
  Except in areas of fishing and agriculture. Especially fishing they really care about, just like iceland.
- mrec 18d ago
  Important to clarify: IIRC that comment was about Norway's EEA membership. The UK is not an EEA member.
- magicalhippo 18d ago
  That's because the PM's party brokered that half-way deal with EU against the will of the people, after they had voted no to EU for the second time[1]. Not saying some of our export companies aren't enjoying the access to EU, but the people was against it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Norwegian_European_Union_membership_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Norwegian_European_Union_...
  - GeoAtreides 18d ago
    Since 1994 the will of the people had a lot of time to express itself...
    - magicalhippo 18d ago
      Polls have consistently been favoring No to EU side since.
      - GeoAtreides 18d ago
        > PM's party brokered that half-way deal with EU against the will of the people, after they had voted no to EU for the second time what polls have to do with it? if the will of the people was against the eu deal, they should've voted against, they had 30 years to do it. norway is a democracy, right?
troupo 18d ago
Norway and Switzerland are in the EU in all but final signatures ar this point: they are fully ibtegrated into EU economy, apply EU's laws and regulations and even pay into EU funds.
- kuboble 18d ago
  Speaking of Switzerland - no it absolutely is not. Is far from being fully integrated into EU. You have to pay customs on shipments, which can be delayed for weeks on borders. You need to apply for the residence permit and you can lose it for trivially sounding reasons. - E.g. lying on the application which could mean " you mentioned in the application you wull look for job but lied and went to learn the language instead". - also look at the recent case of a woman and her daughter abused by some Swiss politician facing deportation because she moved to Switzerland for work officially, but in reality she moved to live with her Swiss romantic partner. Switzerland still have bottles of water without permanently attached lid. It's integrated in many ways but still far from being a member state.
  - bsian 18d ago
    They should have considered not lying in their residence permit applications. I mean, what you are saying sounds like completely reasonable reasons to deport someone. They lied because they knew their application would’ve been denied had they said the truth.
    - kuboble 18d ago
      Btw - as a eu citizen they can't really deny you. So you can write whatever as a reason to move as long as you have means to support yourself. My point is, that within EU you can freely move around with no restrictions and having to apply for residence permits. And the case I mentioned wasn't even lying but a misunderstanding. In Poland searching for a job is state of mind "I wish someone would hire me". In switzerland it officialy means provably spending your full time effort on the job hunt. The person I know couldn't find a job at first so decided to do an intensive German course (5x a week, 4h a day) to increase her hirability. The immigration officer happily used it as a prove that she actually did not spend all her time looking for job, therefore lied.
m132 18d ago
Iceland is already part of Schengen, EFTA, and NATO. They're in the best position there is, having negotiated the best the EU has to offer but not the bad parts, such as the Euro, Pfizer deals, the migration and asylum pact, or age verification. I can't imagine them joining the EU being anything but a massive downgrade for them.
- snowpid 18d ago
  Euro would be a bliss for unstable Islandian currency. Actually Euro is used by the yes camp.
p2detar 18d ago
Yes, these are bad examples. Norway - rich beyond belief due to its energy resources. Switzerland - rich beyond belief because of its developed banking sector. Not sure how Iceland stacks up here. Fishing will be an issue for them, no doubt here.
- fakedang 18d ago
  [dead]
Jtarii 18d ago
Market integration is a good thing.
f6v 18d ago
> Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life Well, one sits on vast amounts of oil and the other has been doing some dodgy financial stuff for very long time. > Iceland is probably better off joining the Schengen but not EU. It irritates me so much how some countries get to pick and choose. It's just ridiculous how some countries refuse to join Eurozone. The UK used to be in the EU, but wasn't part of Schengen. Now it's not part of anything, but is still in Horizon Europe?
hdx19 18d ago
Norway gets all the money it wanted from offshore gas, and Switzerland from being the bank of Europe when world wars happened (not mentioning gold nor laundering). When money is handed down to you like this by geography or history, the benefit of joining the eu and paying more for others is probably not given for the population.
- eloisant 18d ago
  Yes, Luxembourg has a higher GDP per capita than Switzerland, also for banking reasons. If anything when your economy is based on European countries relying on your banking services, being part of EU makes it even easier for said countries to pour their money to your banks.
bArray 18d ago
> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.
- vidarh 18d ago
  The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.
  - rgblambda 18d ago
    And there was considerable debate prior to the referendum within the Leave camp as to whether to go for a "soft Brexit" (close regulatory alignment) or "hard Brexit" (what the final deal ended up being).
    - vidarh 18d ago
      Indeed parts of the leave movement explicitly used as an argument that a soft Brexit was possible, including explicitly airing the possibility of a Norway-style EEA membership. Given how close the result was, it's highly unlikely that there wouldn't have been greater support for a very soft option than for what we got.
  - bArray 18d ago
    > no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU Then do you not support another vote that provides this option? > how drastically opinions have shifted since There is a way to conduct a poll that represents the engaged electorate - have another vote.
    - vidarh 18d ago
      I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. It's pretty clear from polls that support to rejoin is far stronger than the support for Brexit was (in June, it was 55% for vs. 34% against, vs. 59% in support of a closer relationship and 20% against, and 29% supporting the current relationship). But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship - the gap is so huge (much larger than the support for the current status quo ever was) that there's no real need for another vote for that and voters can punish parties that support it at the next general election.
exceptione 18d ago
In practice, these countries implement already a lot of EU law. It isn't that difficult for say a Switzerland to join the EU and they have good reasons to, as access to programs like Horizon is a huge benefit. The economies of these countries are quite interwoven with the second largest economy of the world. The EU market comes with rules but is is a very big win for neighboring countries. In fact, Switzerland backtracking on previous accession tracks and thus not qualifying anymore for Horizon etc is causing some serious regrets, so I won't be surprised if Switzerland bites the bullet somewhere in the future. Secondly, the world got a lot more unstable since the US is pushing for a lawless might-makes-right world and taking an increasingly predatory posture there. From that perspective, the EU is becoming even more relevant. Poignant example is Canada taking more and more steps to integrate their economy with the EU, as well as to become part of its security architecture. UPDATE: Leaving the Horizon program has apparently been too painful [1], seems the Swiss were retroactively allowed back from 2025 [2]. I don't know about Horizon 2028 though. 1. https://sifted.eu/articles/switzerland-startup-talent-brain-drain https://sifted.eu/articles/switzerland-startup-talent-brain-... 2. https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/strategy/strategy-research-and-innovation/europe-world/international-cooperation/association-horizon-europe/switzerland_en https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/strategy/strate...
- ajsnigrutin 18d ago
  Why do they need the Horizon programs? Switzerland is a rich country, in any pan-EU project scheme, they'd pay more than they'd get back.
  - deleted 18d ago
    [deleted]
  - nairboon 18d ago
    Switzerland has been kicked out of Horizon programs so many times and had to build alternatives. By now everyone involved knows, Horizon is high risk program and access can be pulled at any time for political reasons, so it hasn't that much appeal anymore.
  - 18d ago
fifticon 18d ago
switzerland is not currently at risk of a US invasion
- huhtenberg 18d ago
  Neither is Iceland as it has no oil ... or any other mineral resources for that matter.
  - nairboon 18d ago
    But a highly strategic location.
Towaway69 18d ago
Approximately 100 years ago one would have said the same for the UK. Unfortunately the Empire crumbled and the Brits got Magic Thatcher. So perhaps the UK was wrong in joining in the first place.

spiderfarmer 18d ago

It's a bit different with fishery as the backbone of your economy vs. oil, minerals and banking.

ChocolateGod 18d ago

It's already in the Schengen. Iceland already heavily integrated into the EU, the only outliers are currency, foreign policy, security, political institutions, customs and some trading sectors like fishing. Currency (since the exchange rate to the Euro is what sets pricing in Iceland) and security are the reasons many want to get closer.

walthamstow 18d ago
What do they get in security from the EU that they don't get from NATO? Is it so they can get in on the new joint EU defence funds?
- ChocolateGod 18d ago
  The US being an unreliable partner.

yvdriess 18d ago

Iceland already is Schengen

adamtulinius 18d ago

Iceland is already a member of Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

earthnail 18d ago

The Norwegian PM said to Britain back then “don’t repeat our mistake. We need to, in practice, follow all the EU’s rules and don’t get any say in it”

SahAssar 18d ago
Except in areas of fishing and agriculture. Especially fishing they really care about, just like iceland.
mrec 18d ago
Important to clarify: IIRC that comment was about Norway's EEA membership. The UK is not an EEA member.
magicalhippo 18d ago
That's because the PM's party brokered that half-way deal with EU against the will of the people, after they had voted no to EU for the second time[1]. Not saying some of our export companies aren't enjoying the access to EU, but the people was against it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Norwegian_European_Union_membership_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Norwegian_European_Union_...
- GeoAtreides 18d ago
  Since 1994 the will of the people had a lot of time to express itself...
  - magicalhippo 18d ago
    Polls have consistently been favoring No to EU side since.
    - GeoAtreides 18d ago
      > PM's party brokered that half-way deal with EU against the will of the people, after they had voted no to EU for the second time what polls have to do with it? if the will of the people was against the eu deal, they should've voted against, they had 30 years to do it. norway is a democracy, right?

troupo 18d ago

Norway and Switzerland are in the EU in all but final signatures ar this point: they are fully ibtegrated into EU economy, apply EU's laws and regulations and even pay into EU funds.

kuboble 18d ago
Speaking of Switzerland - no it absolutely is not. Is far from being fully integrated into EU. You have to pay customs on shipments, which can be delayed for weeks on borders. You need to apply for the residence permit and you can lose it for trivially sounding reasons. - E.g. lying on the application which could mean " you mentioned in the application you wull look for job but lied and went to learn the language instead". - also look at the recent case of a woman and her daughter abused by some Swiss politician facing deportation because she moved to Switzerland for work officially, but in reality she moved to live with her Swiss romantic partner. Switzerland still have bottles of water without permanently attached lid. It's integrated in many ways but still far from being a member state.
- bsian 18d ago
  They should have considered not lying in their residence permit applications. I mean, what you are saying sounds like completely reasonable reasons to deport someone. They lied because they knew their application would’ve been denied had they said the truth.
  - kuboble 18d ago
    Btw - as a eu citizen they can't really deny you. So you can write whatever as a reason to move as long as you have means to support yourself. My point is, that within EU you can freely move around with no restrictions and having to apply for residence permits. And the case I mentioned wasn't even lying but a misunderstanding. In Poland searching for a job is state of mind "I wish someone would hire me". In switzerland it officialy means provably spending your full time effort on the job hunt. The person I know couldn't find a job at first so decided to do an intensive German course (5x a week, 4h a day) to increase her hirability. The immigration officer happily used it as a prove that she actually did not spend all her time looking for job, therefore lied.

m132 18d ago

Iceland is already part of Schengen, EFTA, and NATO. They're in the best position there is, having negotiated the best the EU has to offer but not the bad parts, such as the Euro, Pfizer deals, the migration and asylum pact, or age verification. I can't imagine them joining the EU being anything but a massive downgrade for them.

snowpid 18d ago
Euro would be a bliss for unstable Islandian currency. Actually Euro is used by the yes camp.

p2detar 18d ago

Yes, these are bad examples. Norway - rich beyond belief due to its energy resources. Switzerland - rich beyond belief because of its developed banking sector. Not sure how Iceland stacks up here. Fishing will be an issue for them, no doubt here.

fakedang 18d ago
[dead]

Jtarii 18d ago

Market integration is a good thing.

f6v 18d ago

> Norway and Switzerland have a fantastic overall quality of life Well, one sits on vast amounts of oil and the other has been doing some dodgy financial stuff for very long time. > Iceland is probably better off joining the Schengen but not EU. It irritates me so much how some countries get to pick and choose. It's just ridiculous how some countries refuse to join Eurozone. The UK used to be in the EU, but wasn't part of Schengen. Now it's not part of anything, but is still in Horizon Europe?

hdx19 18d ago

Norway gets all the money it wanted from offshore gas, and Switzerland from being the bank of Europe when world wars happened (not mentioning gold nor laundering). When money is handed down to you like this by geography or history, the benefit of joining the eu and paying more for others is probably not given for the population.

eloisant 18d ago
Yes, Luxembourg has a higher GDP per capita than Switzerland, also for banking reasons. If anything when your economy is based on European countries relying on your banking services, being part of EU makes it even easier for said countries to pour their money to your banks.

bArray 18d ago

> I feel the UK were wrong to leave [..] Whether it was the correct decision or not, it was done via a democratic vote. Now the leaders of the UK look to entangle the UK into the EU structure that is evidently against their mandate.

vidarh 18d ago
The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.
- rgblambda 18d ago
  And there was considerable debate prior to the referendum within the Leave camp as to whether to go for a "soft Brexit" (close regulatory alignment) or "hard Brexit" (what the final deal ended up being).
  - vidarh 18d ago
    Indeed parts of the leave movement explicitly used as an argument that a soft Brexit was possible, including explicitly airing the possibility of a Norway-style EEA membership. Given how close the result was, it's highly unlikely that there wouldn't have been greater support for a very soft option than for what we got.
- bArray 18d ago
  > no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU Then do you not support another vote that provides this option? > how drastically opinions have shifted since There is a way to conduct a poll that represents the engaged electorate - have another vote.
  - vidarh 18d ago
    I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. It's pretty clear from polls that support to rejoin is far stronger than the support for Brexit was (in June, it was 55% for vs. 34% against, vs. 59% in support of a closer relationship and 20% against, and 29% supporting the current relationship). But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship - the gap is so huge (much larger than the support for the current status quo ever was) that there's no real need for another vote for that and voters can punish parties that support it at the next general election.

exceptione 18d ago

In practice, these countries implement already a lot of EU law. It isn't that difficult for say a Switzerland to join the EU and they have good reasons to, as access to programs like Horizon is a huge benefit. The economies of these countries are quite interwoven with the second largest economy of the world. The EU market comes with rules but is is a very big win for neighboring countries. In fact, Switzerland backtracking on previous accession tracks and thus not qualifying anymore for Horizon etc is causing some serious regrets, so I won't be surprised if Switzerland bites the bullet somewhere in the future. Secondly, the world got a lot more unstable since the US is pushing for a lawless might-makes-right world and taking an increasingly predatory posture there. From that perspective, the EU is becoming even more relevant. Poignant example is Canada taking more and more steps to integrate their economy with the EU, as well as to become part of its security architecture. UPDATE: Leaving the Horizon program has apparently been too painful [1], seems the Swiss were retroactively allowed back from 2025 [2]. I don't know about Horizon 2028 though. 1. https://sifted.eu/articles/switzerland-startup-talent-brain-drain https://sifted.eu/articles/switzerland-startup-talent-brain-... 2. https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/strategy/strategy-research-and-innovation/europe-world/international-cooperation/association-horizon-europe/switzerland_en https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/strategy/strate...

ajsnigrutin 18d ago
Why do they need the Horizon programs? Switzerland is a rich country, in any pan-EU project scheme, they'd pay more than they'd get back.
- deleted 18d ago
  [deleted]
- nairboon 18d ago
  Switzerland has been kicked out of Horizon programs so many times and had to build alternatives. By now everyone involved knows, Horizon is high risk program and access can be pulled at any time for political reasons, so it hasn't that much appeal anymore.
- 18d ago

fifticon 18d ago

switzerland is not currently at risk of a US invasion

huhtenberg 18d ago
Neither is Iceland as it has no oil ... or any other mineral resources for that matter.
- nairboon 18d ago
  But a highly strategic location.

Towaway69 18d ago

Approximately 100 years ago one would have said the same for the UK. Unfortunately the Empire crumbled and the Brits got Magic Thatcher. So perhaps the UK was wrong in joining in the first place.