12 ms·

I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security.

ex1fm3ta 23d ago
same playbook than Huawei
palmotea 23d ago
> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to national security all the time, in many ways (e.g. causing domestic capabilities to wither and die).
- cyanydeez 23d ago
  OH, BUT we have fable! We have AI! of course we can answer these questions? can't we? which is true: America's AI is a super powerful defense against our enemies or America's AI is too stupid to defend against such a threat, and only sactions and import controls will suffice. Just seems like you're inventing things to be scared of.
  - NoidFonsense 23d ago
    it's a hardware problem, you run into engineering, materials, and physics issues. we're not talking about reverse engineering software
    - cyanydeez 21d ago
      yeah, haven't you heard AI is magic.
- paxys 23d ago
  Can we audit American corporations?
  - ryandrake 23d ago
    Also, who decides which entities are adversaries? I don't personally consider "China" my adversary. As an American who has to deal with US companies, many of them are far more antagonistic to me than a foreign country 10K km away. If "China" decides it doesn't like me, my life really isn't going to change much. If my electric company decides it doesn't like me, I'm in big trouble.
    - like_any_other 23d ago
      You don't consider them your adversary, while they strong-arm your corporations to invest in China [1] instead of your own country (this becomes "we have to manufacture in China, we don't have the capability here!"), destroy your corporations through espionage [2,3], or through subsidy-enabled dumping prices and preferential treatment [4,5], extract groveling apologies from your firms [6], operate literal police stations on your soil [7], turn your countries into subordinate receivers of orders [8,9], bribe your politicians [10], censor your media [11], universities [12,13,14], advertising and corporations in general [15,16], and even books [17]. While they plan 50 years ahead, we are stuck re-litigating the most basic "united we stand, divided we fall" logic, even while the consequences are all around us. But congratulations on your enlightened individualism. [1] Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secret-deal-with-china/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 [3] https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita... [4] https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overproducing-green-tech/a-68782157 https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overpro... [5] EU: Anti-dumping probe into China solar panels - https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2a7cf https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2... [6] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe-idUSKBN1FQ1FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_service_stations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_servic... [8] FIPA agreement with China: What's really in it for Canada? - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-wha... [9] Posters depicting Hong Kong protests removed by Massey University within 12 hours - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting-hong-kong-protests-removed-by-massey-university-within-12-hours https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting... [10] Businesses with Chinese connections gave Australia's major parties more than $5.5 million between 2013 and 2015, making them easily the largest source of foreign-linked donations. - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-21/australian-groups-strong-ties-china-political-donations/7768012 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-21/australian-groups-str... [11] Apple Told Some Apple TV+ Show Developers Not To Anger China - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/apple-china-tv-protesters-hong-kong-tim-cook https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/apple-ch... [12] Chinese students in Australia fear reprisals at home if they speak out, inquiry hears - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/12/chinese-students-in-australia-fear-reprisals-at-home-if-they-speak-out-inquiry-hears https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/12/chine... [13] Perry Link, emeritus professor of East Asian Studies at Princeton University, says that [..] American scholars practice self-censorship about China and adopt the official narrative of the Chinese regime when talking about sensitive issues. “We don’t talk about ‘Taiwan independence.’ We talk about ‘the cross-Strait relations.’ We don’t talk about ‘the occupation of Tibet.’ We don’t call the June 4th Massacre ‘massacre.’ - https://www.theepochtimes.com/how-the-american-academy-misleads-about-china_2720496.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/how-the-american-academy-misle... [14] China pressured Concordia University to cancel event with Uighur activist - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/chinese-officials-concordia-university-cancel-event-with-uighur-activist-1.5074423 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/chinese-officials-co... [15] Leica Camera has sought to distance itself from a promotional video depicting photographers covering the deadly Tiananmen Square crackdown three decades ago, after it landed the German company in hot water in China. - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3006817/leica-camera-backs-away-promotional-video-depicting-tiananmen https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3006817/lei... [16] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe-idUSKBN1FQ1FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe... [17] China gets German children's book about COVID withdrawn - https://www.dw.com/en/china-gets-german-childrens-book-about-covid-withdrawn/a-56874633 https://www.dw.com/en/china-gets-german-childrens-book-about... Edit as reply ("posting too fast", thanks HN) to all the "but the US also does bad things" "counterarguments": > Seriously, Americans can do this chickenshit nonsense, but you are the worldwide problem. I'm European, and not stupid enough to believe that because the US is acting poorly or even in some cases hostile to Europe (to say nothing of the Middle East or South America), that we should roll over and allow China to subjugate us instead. Neither should the US. This is "you are not pure and innocent enough for self-defense" logic. Please don't drag the rest of us down in some deluded attempt at atonement.
- sleepgummies 23d ago
  [dead]
- like_any_other 23d ago
  3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources to show this is not a sudden new development: Back in 2014, the central government set up the China National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund. - https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-chinas-big-fund-helping-country-catch-global-semiconductor-race https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-ch... Over the next decade, China plans to invest up to RMB 1 trillion (US$161 billion) into its domestic semiconductor industry as it seeks to become a global power in the sector. In recent years, Beijing has repeatedly stated that developing its own integrated circuit (IC) industry is of integral national strategic concern. - https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-in-chinas-semiconductor-industry https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-i... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Industry_Investment_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Indus...
  - palmotea 23d ago
    > 3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources: Yeah, I agree. The US and its allies took the wrong lessons from the economic aspect of the cold war. They saw Western capitalism out-perform Soviet central planning, then let capitalist ideologues run amok. China has the advantage: since it's not run by capitalist ideologues it better able to correct the deficiencies of capitalism AND it can exploit predictable capitalist behavior for strategic advantage.
  - zer00eyz 23d ago
    > Over the next decade That was a 2016 article. We're at the other end of that investment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk It did not quite turn out like china wanted. This isn't to be dismissive of what they ARE delivering - china has the potential to be very big in RAM, and Storage in the comming decades. But I'm not sure that they met their industrial and geopolitical goals with these efforts.
- throwaw12 23d ago
  To make conversation productive, please define "national security" in this case. For example, if China can't install its hardware in Pentagon, why is it a threat to national security. On the other hand, if you say, Intel will be in trouble because of these chips, then I would say, so what? Wasn't this a dream of MBAs, educated by the top US schools, to outsource everything in business to cheaper service providers (e.g. manufacturing to China, software development to India and etc,.) Where is the threat and what is the threat?
  - like_any_other 23d ago
    "To make conversation productive, please explain how outsourcing your strategic industry and know-how to geopolitical rivals and enemies is a threat." You have a funny definition of "productive".
- nixuserb58 23d ago
  This is essentially asking every country in the world to be subservient to US tech in perpetuity. They didn't sign up for that.
- B1FF_PSUVM 23d ago
  In the 1980s, when Japanese firms were 7 of top-10 in world market cap, the trade magazines were screaming about Japanese fifth gen computers, silicon prowess, etc. and cyberpunk SF mandatorily had Japanese locales thrown in ...
- wolvesechoes 23d ago
  But Meta can share with NSA what kind of porn are you into or that you've said few bad words about US president, whilst CCP doesn't care, so who is a real adversary?! By the way I am an INDIVIDUAL, my personal FREEDOM and FEELINGS are all that matter. China didn't hurt my feelings, domestic companies or politicians did, so, again, who's a real adversary now, huh?!
SigmundA 23d ago
I wonder if the Trump T2 phone will get this chip.
- Forgeties79 23d ago
  Man I forgot about that nonsense. I can’t imagine any self respecting person picking one up.
  - mlnj 23d ago
    Still a massive market looks like.
    - Forgeties79 23d ago
      Last i read most of the money came from people not reading the fine print on their $100 deposit and only a few thousand have actually been distributed. Looking now I see maybe tens of thousands of open orders still
      - jdiff 23d ago
        "Looking now"? Is this something they publicize for some unknowable reason?
        Forgeties79 23d ago
        I don’t want to get bogged down in a source dispute - this is very easy to search and/but I only spent about 60s on it. I am hardly an expert. Feel free to look it up as well and tell me how I am entirely wrong. This was a combination of AI responses + thumbing through the sources linked to make sure it wasn’t invented whole cloth. I do not think they are selling well. That seems to be the consensus here.
        jdiff 23d ago
        I don't think they are selling well, either. I was wondering at your source since it would be very atypical for any company to give any numbers at all, let alone a company that's so outwardly sketchy, let alone numbers like "This is the number of orders we have standing open despite being actively in production." This is the exact kind of thing I would not expect to be easy to search, and it'd be ripe for AI hallucination. The only numbers I can find in a quick search of my own are the leaked numbers stating 30,000 orders placed from 10,000 customers, with nothing said about shipped orders.
deleted 23d ago
[deleted]
lenerdenator 23d ago
I mean, yeah? It's generally a bad idea to use information-handling hardware from your main geopolitical rival.
- lostlogin 23d ago
  It can be confusing to follow who the rivals are. Russia and North Korea are friends and Canada is the enemy. China seems more liked than Canada.
  - lenerdenator 23d ago
    It's only confusing if you take a buffoon's attitude at face value, which is rather hard to do in a country where half of the people actively work to thwart what he does. Which brings me back to my point about totalitarianism.
trynumber9 23d ago
It's an ARM-designed CPU core, made in Taiwan. Very little difference from say MediaTek's upcoming Dimensity SoC just announced earlier because it is made on TSMC N3P instead of N2. I don't think they have any angle with that.
- doublepg23 23d ago
  I'm not one to cry "foreign bots!" but this thread seems astroturfed after realizing this.
  - deleted 23d ago
    [deleted]
- paimapi 23d ago
  you say that like American lobbyists and Congress people are at-all technically minded and not just hyperbolic princes seeking influence at any cost
  - pandemic_region 23d ago
    To be fair, describing the internet as a series of tubes is rather technical to some extent.
    - sekh60 23d ago
      If they said "pipes" network admins probably would have given it a pass.
      - paimapi 23d ago
        we had one chance to elect that technocrat who could have set us on the path that the PRC is on now. instead, we decided it was more important to feel like we could have a beer with the President and so ended up invading Iraq and Afghanistan instead
- 23d ago
philistine 23d ago
And everybody forgets the true power of Apple: scale. Can that supposed miracle chip be readily found in million of phones within 6 months? Or will Xiaomi keep selling 90% of their phones with 2 year old chips, reserving these chips to their 2000$ foldables? This post serves Xiaomi because it implies competitiveness when the reality on the ground will remain unremarkable, and it helps fearmongers because they can latch on to Xiaomi's attempt to appear competitive.
- FpUser 23d ago
  When I buy my phones I do not give a flying fuck about "scale". All I care is what do I get for my pesos from various offerings.
  - boxed 23d ago
    What you get for the money IS scale.
    - FpUser 23d ago
      Sounds like BS. I got me a nice phone and it is not from Apple
      - boxed 23d ago
        ok, and where was the CPU from? Someone who has scale I presume. Apple isn't alone with that, they're just the biggest.
- cromka 23d ago
  Their power of scale applies to less and less regions. Xiaomi, in particular, delivers that to China where Apple previously slapped and now is becoming a niche player. It's the same as with German car makers. The trend have now reversed, with Chinese manufacturers starting to dominate on foreign markets and it's also something that was unfathomable just a few years back. They have proven countless of times by now that they are not to be ignored.
- 23d ago
EQFitzgerald 23d ago
Xiaomi doesn't do business in the US anyway.
- tokioyoyo 23d ago
  The angle is to pressure other countries to ban them as well.

ex1fm3ta 23d ago

same playbook than Huawei

palmotea 23d ago

> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to national security all the time, in many ways (e.g. causing domestic capabilities to wither and die).

cyanydeez 23d ago
OH, BUT we have fable! We have AI! of course we can answer these questions? can't we? which is true: America's AI is a super powerful defense against our enemies or America's AI is too stupid to defend against such a threat, and only sactions and import controls will suffice. Just seems like you're inventing things to be scared of.
- NoidFonsense 23d ago
  it's a hardware problem, you run into engineering, materials, and physics issues. we're not talking about reverse engineering software
  - cyanydeez 21d ago
    yeah, haven't you heard AI is magic.
paxys 23d ago
Can we audit American corporations?
- ryandrake 23d ago
  Also, who decides which entities are adversaries? I don't personally consider "China" my adversary. As an American who has to deal with US companies, many of them are far more antagonistic to me than a foreign country 10K km away. If "China" decides it doesn't like me, my life really isn't going to change much. If my electric company decides it doesn't like me, I'm in big trouble.
  - like_any_other 23d ago
    You don't consider them your adversary, while they strong-arm your corporations to invest in China [1] instead of your own country (this becomes "we have to manufacture in China, we don't have the capability here!"), destroy your corporations through espionage [2,3], or through subsidy-enabled dumping prices and preferential treatment [4,5], extract groveling apologies from your firms [6], operate literal police stations on your soil [7], turn your countries into subordinate receivers of orders [8,9], bribe your politicians [10], censor your media [11], universities [12,13,14], advertising and corporations in general [15,16], and even books [17]. While they plan 50 years ahead, we are stuck re-litigating the most basic "united we stand, divided we fall" logic, even while the consequences are all around us. But congratulations on your enlightened individualism. [1] Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secret-deal-with-china/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 [3] https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita... [4] https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overproducing-green-tech/a-68782157 https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overpro... [5] EU: Anti-dumping probe into China solar panels - https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2a7cf https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2... [6] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe-idUSKBN1FQ1FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_service_stations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_servic... [8] FIPA agreement with China: What's really in it for Canada? - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-wha... [9] Posters depicting Hong Kong protests removed by Massey University within 12 hours - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting-hong-kong-protests-removed-by-massey-university-within-12-hours https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting... [10] Businesses with Chinese connections gave Australia's major parties more than $5.5 million between 2013 and 2015, making them easily the largest source of foreign-linked donations. - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-21/australian-groups-strong-ties-china-political-donations/7768012 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-21/australian-groups-str... [11] Apple Told Some Apple TV+ Show Developers Not To Anger China - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/apple-china-tv-protesters-hong-kong-tim-cook https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/apple-ch... [12] Chinese students in Australia fear reprisals at home if they speak out, inquiry hears - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/12/chinese-students-in-australia-fear-reprisals-at-home-if-they-speak-out-inquiry-hears https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/12/chine... [13] Perry Link, emeritus professor of East Asian Studies at Princeton University, says that [..] American scholars practice self-censorship about China and adopt the official narrative of the Chinese regime when talking about sensitive issues. “We don’t talk about ‘Taiwan independence.’ We talk about ‘the cross-Strait relations.’ We don’t talk about ‘the occupation of Tibet.’ We don’t call the June 4th Massacre ‘massacre.’ - https://www.theepochtimes.com/how-the-american-academy-misleads-about-china_2720496.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/how-the-american-academy-misle... [14] China pressured Concordia University to cancel event with Uighur activist - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/chinese-officials-concordia-university-cancel-event-with-uighur-activist-1.5074423 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/chinese-officials-co... [15] Leica Camera has sought to distance itself from a promotional video depicting photographers covering the deadly Tiananmen Square crackdown three decades ago, after it landed the German company in hot water in China. - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3006817/leica-camera-backs-away-promotional-video-depicting-tiananmen https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3006817/lei... [16] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe-idUSKBN1FQ1FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe... [17] China gets German children's book about COVID withdrawn - https://www.dw.com/en/china-gets-german-childrens-book-about-covid-withdrawn/a-56874633 https://www.dw.com/en/china-gets-german-childrens-book-about... Edit as reply ("posting too fast", thanks HN) to all the "but the US also does bad things" "counterarguments": > Seriously, Americans can do this chickenshit nonsense, but you are the worldwide problem. I'm European, and not stupid enough to believe that because the US is acting poorly or even in some cases hostile to Europe (to say nothing of the Middle East or South America), that we should roll over and allow China to subjugate us instead. Neither should the US. This is "you are not pure and innocent enough for self-defense" logic. Please don't drag the rest of us down in some deluded attempt at atonement.
sleepgummies 23d ago
[dead]
like_any_other 23d ago
3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources to show this is not a sudden new development: Back in 2014, the central government set up the China National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund. - https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-chinas-big-fund-helping-country-catch-global-semiconductor-race https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-ch... Over the next decade, China plans to invest up to RMB 1 trillion (US$161 billion) into its domestic semiconductor industry as it seeks to become a global power in the sector. In recent years, Beijing has repeatedly stated that developing its own integrated circuit (IC) industry is of integral national strategic concern. - https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-in-chinas-semiconductor-industry https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-i... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Industry_Investment_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Indus...
- palmotea 23d ago
  > 3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources: Yeah, I agree. The US and its allies took the wrong lessons from the economic aspect of the cold war. They saw Western capitalism out-perform Soviet central planning, then let capitalist ideologues run amok. China has the advantage: since it's not run by capitalist ideologues it better able to correct the deficiencies of capitalism AND it can exploit predictable capitalist behavior for strategic advantage.
- zer00eyz 23d ago
  > Over the next decade That was a 2016 article. We're at the other end of that investment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk It did not quite turn out like china wanted. This isn't to be dismissive of what they ARE delivering - china has the potential to be very big in RAM, and Storage in the comming decades. But I'm not sure that they met their industrial and geopolitical goals with these efforts.
throwaw12 23d ago
To make conversation productive, please define "national security" in this case. For example, if China can't install its hardware in Pentagon, why is it a threat to national security. On the other hand, if you say, Intel will be in trouble because of these chips, then I would say, so what? Wasn't this a dream of MBAs, educated by the top US schools, to outsource everything in business to cheaper service providers (e.g. manufacturing to China, software development to India and etc,.) Where is the threat and what is the threat?
- like_any_other 23d ago
  "To make conversation productive, please explain how outsourcing your strategic industry and know-how to geopolitical rivals and enemies is a threat." You have a funny definition of "productive".
nixuserb58 23d ago
This is essentially asking every country in the world to be subservient to US tech in perpetuity. They didn't sign up for that.
B1FF_PSUVM 23d ago
In the 1980s, when Japanese firms were 7 of top-10 in world market cap, the trade magazines were screaming about Japanese fifth gen computers, silicon prowess, etc. and cyberpunk SF mandatorily had Japanese locales thrown in ...
wolvesechoes 23d ago
But Meta can share with NSA what kind of porn are you into or that you've said few bad words about US president, whilst CCP doesn't care, so who is a real adversary?! By the way I am an INDIVIDUAL, my personal FREEDOM and FEELINGS are all that matter. China didn't hurt my feelings, domestic companies or politicians did, so, again, who's a real adversary now, huh?!

SigmundA 23d ago

I wonder if the Trump T2 phone will get this chip.

Forgeties79 23d ago
Man I forgot about that nonsense. I can’t imagine any self respecting person picking one up.
- mlnj 23d ago
  Still a massive market looks like.
  - Forgeties79 23d ago
    Last i read most of the money came from people not reading the fine print on their $100 deposit and only a few thousand have actually been distributed. Looking now I see maybe tens of thousands of open orders still
    - jdiff 23d ago
      "Looking now"? Is this something they publicize for some unknowable reason?
      - Forgeties79 23d ago
        I don’t want to get bogged down in a source dispute - this is very easy to search and/but I only spent about 60s on it. I am hardly an expert. Feel free to look it up as well and tell me how I am entirely wrong. This was a combination of AI responses + thumbing through the sources linked to make sure it wasn’t invented whole cloth. I do not think they are selling well. That seems to be the consensus here.
        jdiff 23d ago
        I don't think they are selling well, either. I was wondering at your source since it would be very atypical for any company to give any numbers at all, let alone a company that's so outwardly sketchy, let alone numbers like "This is the number of orders we have standing open despite being actively in production." This is the exact kind of thing I would not expect to be easy to search, and it'd be ripe for AI hallucination. The only numbers I can find in a quick search of my own are the leaked numbers stating 30,000 orders placed from 10,000 customers, with nothing said about shipped orders.

deleted 23d ago

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lenerdenator 23d ago

I mean, yeah? It's generally a bad idea to use information-handling hardware from your main geopolitical rival.

lostlogin 23d ago
It can be confusing to follow who the rivals are. Russia and North Korea are friends and Canada is the enemy. China seems more liked than Canada.
- lenerdenator 23d ago
  It's only confusing if you take a buffoon's attitude at face value, which is rather hard to do in a country where half of the people actively work to thwart what he does. Which brings me back to my point about totalitarianism.

trynumber9 23d ago

It's an ARM-designed CPU core, made in Taiwan. Very little difference from say MediaTek's upcoming Dimensity SoC just announced earlier because it is made on TSMC N3P instead of N2. I don't think they have any angle with that.

doublepg23 23d ago
I'm not one to cry "foreign bots!" but this thread seems astroturfed after realizing this.
- deleted 23d ago
  [deleted]
paimapi 23d ago
you say that like American lobbyists and Congress people are at-all technically minded and not just hyperbolic princes seeking influence at any cost
- pandemic_region 23d ago
  To be fair, describing the internet as a series of tubes is rather technical to some extent.
  - sekh60 23d ago
    If they said "pipes" network admins probably would have given it a pass.
    - paimapi 23d ago
      we had one chance to elect that technocrat who could have set us on the path that the PRC is on now. instead, we decided it was more important to feel like we could have a beer with the President and so ended up invading Iraq and Afghanistan instead
23d ago

philistine 23d ago

And everybody forgets the true power of Apple: scale. Can that supposed miracle chip be readily found in million of phones within 6 months? Or will Xiaomi keep selling 90% of their phones with 2 year old chips, reserving these chips to their 2000$ foldables? This post serves Xiaomi because it implies competitiveness when the reality on the ground will remain unremarkable, and it helps fearmongers because they can latch on to Xiaomi's attempt to appear competitive.

FpUser 23d ago
When I buy my phones I do not give a flying fuck about "scale". All I care is what do I get for my pesos from various offerings.
- boxed 23d ago
  What you get for the money IS scale.
  - FpUser 23d ago
    Sounds like BS. I got me a nice phone and it is not from Apple
    - boxed 23d ago
      ok, and where was the CPU from? Someone who has scale I presume. Apple isn't alone with that, they're just the biggest.
cromka 23d ago
Their power of scale applies to less and less regions. Xiaomi, in particular, delivers that to China where Apple previously slapped and now is becoming a niche player. It's the same as with German car makers. The trend have now reversed, with Chinese manufacturers starting to dominate on foreign markets and it's also something that was unfathomable just a few years back. They have proven countless of times by now that they are not to be ignored.
23d ago

EQFitzgerald 23d ago

Xiaomi doesn't do business in the US anyway.

tokioyoyo 23d ago
The angle is to pressure other countries to ban them as well.