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The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve

by pluc 25d ago

The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve our (yours and ours) inferior car industry. It's basically what Canada is doing to the US with dairy, except with Chinese cars.

fidotron 25d ago
What is going to happen is this lack of deal will accelerate the (inevitable) decline of the Canadian car industry, which will reduce objections to the Chinese imports leading to those quotas changing in an ever accelerating feedback loop. From the US strategic perspective this is moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.
- THX1137 25d ago
  It's so obvious that you'd think its intentional.
- AlexandrB 25d ago
  Canada having closer trade ties with China is also a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Canada.
  - fooster 25d ago
    I didn’t see china calling to annex Canada. The bad relations between china and Canada were also principally caused by the US insisting that we detain Meng Wanzhou. We can see what thanks we got for that.
  - gmerc 25d ago
    Why? China taking the goods we sell to the US seems like a good deal for us. They won’t copy our dairy or oil and if they want to assemble their EVs here and give us free AI, it’s a clear win win.
- WarmWash 25d ago
  I think people forget that China is an authoritarian ethno state with a single leader for life. But hey, they have cheap shit, so what better wagon to hitch your country to?
  - timbit42 22d ago
    In my mind, the goal isn't to replace the US with China, but to lean into many countries, China being necessary due to being the only place to get many things. In the end, the goal isn't trade with China with as high a percentage as our trade is with the US but to use China to help us move away from the US which is currently more hostile than China, at least unless/until China becomes more hostile, but never allow any country to have more than perhaps 20% of our trade. Ultimately I would like to see Canada stay away from China as much as possible due to its lack of human rights, freedoms, democracy, etc. just as with all other countries with these issues, but we can't do it in only a few years.
- jbm 25d ago
  I don't understand this and would like a clarification. There are zero Canadian automobile assemblers; they are Canadian subsidiaries of American companies, with some parts manufacturers being here. Assuming American companies (and companies from subordinates like Japan) leave, what would be the problem in having a similar relationship with China? Is it because their manufacturing is more integrated?
  - bardak 25d ago
    The American, and other auto makers, only manufacturers in Canada because the Canadian and American auto markets have been integrated for over 80 years. Removing Canada's access to the American market basically makes Canadian auto manufacturing uncompetitive since Canada isn't a big enough market to sustain a domestic auto market.
  - __turbobrew__ 25d ago
    > There are zero Canadian automobile assemblers; they are Canadian subsidiaries of American Toyota has massive assembly plants in Canada which net export vehicles to the USA. My rav4 hybrid was built in Woodstock Ontario.
TacticalCoder 25d ago
I'm in the EU and my masters did hand over the car market to chinese cars and this was a very stupid move. Some EU carmakers are fighting back but it's very hard when politicians managed to have energy price in the EU being about 7x higher than those carmakers in China do pay. I'm not for tariffs but China is dumping and if we don't all want to end up being vassals of China, we should at least protect some of our industries. And as "good" as chinese EVs are, I'm sorry but they're not anywhere near the quality of, say, what German cars used to be. If western carmakers had been given a reasonable timeline to switch to EVs and reasonable energy price, the situation would be different. EU carmakers may be saved by people preferring to buy cars from their own continent but that remains to be seen. The latest BMW EVs, for example (once you remove the spying / remote control issues: but that affects chinese EVs doubly so), are apparently very fine machines.
- sokoloff 25d ago
  > not anywhere near the quality of, say, what German cars used to be. To be fair, German cars aren’t anywhere near the quality that German cars used to be, either.
- bilbo0s 25d ago
  >and reasonable energy price Nice Jedi Hand Wave there. That's the issue. China invested in producing cheap energy. Most of the rest of the world did not. At root, economics is about turning energy into goods and services. If the root industrial input of your competitor is cheaper than the cost of that same root industrial input to you, you're gonna need some incredible efficiencies elsewhere in that production pipeline to pull even. At this point, the EU should be all about keeping the other major powers at arm's length, (economically and militarily), while pursuing renewable electrification with all deliberate speed. That should be everyone else' strategy going forward as well by the way. Without cheap energy in the next global economic phase, your nation or bloc is dead in the water.
  - AlexandrB 25d ago
    > China invested in producing cheap energy. You mean coal[1][2]? [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-construction-of-new-coal-power-plants-reached-10-year-high-in-2024 https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-construction-of-new-coal-... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/chinas-new-coal-power-installations-reach-18-year-high/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/ch...

by pluc 25d ago

fidotron 25d ago

What is going to happen is this lack of deal will accelerate the (inevitable) decline of the Canadian car industry, which will reduce objections to the Chinese imports leading to those quotas changing in an ever accelerating feedback loop. From the US strategic perspective this is moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.

THX1137 25d ago
It's so obvious that you'd think its intentional.
AlexandrB 25d ago
Canada having closer trade ties with China is also a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Canada.
- fooster 25d ago
  I didn’t see china calling to annex Canada. The bad relations between china and Canada were also principally caused by the US insisting that we detain Meng Wanzhou. We can see what thanks we got for that.
- gmerc 25d ago
  Why? China taking the goods we sell to the US seems like a good deal for us. They won’t copy our dairy or oil and if they want to assemble their EVs here and give us free AI, it’s a clear win win.
WarmWash 25d ago
I think people forget that China is an authoritarian ethno state with a single leader for life. But hey, they have cheap shit, so what better wagon to hitch your country to?
- timbit42 22d ago
  In my mind, the goal isn't to replace the US with China, but to lean into many countries, China being necessary due to being the only place to get many things. In the end, the goal isn't trade with China with as high a percentage as our trade is with the US but to use China to help us move away from the US which is currently more hostile than China, at least unless/until China becomes more hostile, but never allow any country to have more than perhaps 20% of our trade. Ultimately I would like to see Canada stay away from China as much as possible due to its lack of human rights, freedoms, democracy, etc. just as with all other countries with these issues, but we can't do it in only a few years.
jbm 25d ago
I don't understand this and would like a clarification. There are zero Canadian automobile assemblers; they are Canadian subsidiaries of American companies, with some parts manufacturers being here. Assuming American companies (and companies from subordinates like Japan) leave, what would be the problem in having a similar relationship with China? Is it because their manufacturing is more integrated?
- bardak 25d ago
  The American, and other auto makers, only manufacturers in Canada because the Canadian and American auto markets have been integrated for over 80 years. Removing Canada's access to the American market basically makes Canadian auto manufacturing uncompetitive since Canada isn't a big enough market to sustain a domestic auto market.
- __turbobrew__ 25d ago
  > There are zero Canadian automobile assemblers; they are Canadian subsidiaries of American Toyota has massive assembly plants in Canada which net export vehicles to the USA. My rav4 hybrid was built in Woodstock Ontario.

TacticalCoder 25d ago

I'm in the EU and my masters did hand over the car market to chinese cars and this was a very stupid move. Some EU carmakers are fighting back but it's very hard when politicians managed to have energy price in the EU being about 7x higher than those carmakers in China do pay. I'm not for tariffs but China is dumping and if we don't all want to end up being vassals of China, we should at least protect some of our industries. And as "good" as chinese EVs are, I'm sorry but they're not anywhere near the quality of, say, what German cars used to be. If western carmakers had been given a reasonable timeline to switch to EVs and reasonable energy price, the situation would be different. EU carmakers may be saved by people preferring to buy cars from their own continent but that remains to be seen. The latest BMW EVs, for example (once you remove the spying / remote control issues: but that affects chinese EVs doubly so), are apparently very fine machines.

sokoloff 25d ago
> not anywhere near the quality of, say, what German cars used to be. To be fair, German cars aren’t anywhere near the quality that German cars used to be, either.
bilbo0s 25d ago
>and reasonable energy price Nice Jedi Hand Wave there. That's the issue. China invested in producing cheap energy. Most of the rest of the world did not. At root, economics is about turning energy into goods and services. If the root industrial input of your competitor is cheaper than the cost of that same root industrial input to you, you're gonna need some incredible efficiencies elsewhere in that production pipeline to pull even. At this point, the EU should be all about keeping the other major powers at arm's length, (economically and militarily), while pursuing renewable electrification with all deliberate speed. That should be everyone else' strategy going forward as well by the way. Without cheap energy in the next global economic phase, your nation or bloc is dead in the water.
- AlexandrB 25d ago
  > China invested in producing cheap energy. You mean coal[1][2]? [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-construction-of-new-coal-power-plants-reached-10-year-high-in-2024 https://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-construction-of-new-coal-... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/chinas-new-coal-power-installations-reach-18-year-high/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/ch...