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So at the beginning of the story you started with a rented space you and others practice yoga, and the end result is that you lost your practice room, without g

So at the beginning of the story you started with a rented space you and others practice yoga, and the end result is that you lost your practice room, without gaining anything else other then… slightly more confidence? Is there supposed to be a teaching in here?

crab_galaxy 1mo ago
Also this doesn’t even feel the same “no and negotiate” he’s advocating for? This is straight up “No.” Territory. He rents the dang space it’s not anyone else’s decision.
- nkrisc 1mo ago
  It could be someone else’s decision, it depends on what the rental agreement says. If it’s not specified, then that’s a good lesson learned for next time.
- grey-area 1mo ago
  He doesn’t any more.
nkrisc 1mo ago
To not be a pushover. The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. So this is probably the better outcome.
- j_maffe 1mo ago
  But that seems to have little to do with the quote... I'm confused.
- Aurornis 1mo ago
  > The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. The alternative was using the phone call with the manager to calmly explain the situation and try to negotiate. The blog kept talking about using "no" as a starting point for negotiating, then when the negotiation opportunity peaked he refused to listen to the other person and gloated about it. The second half of the book's advice (the negotiate part) flew right over his head. He was too stuck on the "No" part.
  - SoftTalker 1mo ago
    It seems to me that the person who wasn't listening was the manager who ignored the reasonable reasons for not wanting a cold room and made up some bullshit about compressors.
    - Aurornis 1mo ago
      The blog literally says "I didn't care to understand" to demonstrate that he was not interested in listening. I would not assume the manager was making things up. He might have truly believed what he was saying. In these situations if you take the time to understand, you can get a lot of leverage by getting to the root of their concerns and then building a pathway to address them mutually. If they thought it was going to harm the compressor, you would listen and understand their concerns. Then you would explain that you are familiar with the system and can show them that it won't cause harm to the compressor. Then you propose a reasonable alternative, such as offering to set it to the desired temperature as soon as you leave and possibly sending them some authoritative HVAC source to allay their fears. The person in this story didn't even try to do that. If you spend time with professional sales people (the good ones), the first thing you learn is that you have to listen to the other side, understand the root of their concerns, and work toward a mutual resolution. If you shut down and refuse to even listen, you get nowhere like this guy.
      - deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
      - nkrisc 1mo ago
        That assumes they know that about how the system works. If you aren’t knowledgeable about it then the specifics aren’t really relevant.
    - cgriswald 1mo ago
      We have only one side of the story and he didn’t give us any details of what the manager actually said. He also mentions the manager said something about “costs”. The author’s wants are reasonable but that doesn’t mean the manager’s wants aren’t also reasonable.
- Ekaros 1mo ago
  What it seems they wanted was hot yoga space. With 2:30 hours of rent... When every single other user of space wanted slightly cold or reasonably air conditioned space. Maybe for good reasons like temperature raising during the day and thus wanting to buffer it more.
  - hahahaa 1mo ago
    Yeah I think comments should be restricted to people who have lived in regular 37C/100F plus days. That will be most of us soon enough. Sure keep your AC off to mid morning lol!
    - Aachen 1mo ago
      The options aren't ≥37° xor =18°. Setpoints are ubiquitous and timers very common, too. They nearly got somewhere when talking about cooling different rooms by different amounts! I don't do sports but assuming the muscle heat requirement is a thing, how does anyone exercise or do heavy work outside in countries where the temperature falls to 18° some days of the year? Presumably one could use a jacket? And how do the office workers manage in 18° air? I'm a dude and I'd still freeze my nipples off when doing desk work when you can cook eggs outside and I came in a t-shirt. There's so much here that isn't explored and then the story ends open-ended. It doesn't seem useful even as an n=1 anecdote
      - TeMPOraL 1mo ago
        > I don't do sports but assuming the muscle heat requirement is a thing Metabolism produces heat, human bodies have a complex heat management system, that for reasons of physics, is much better at heating itself up when it's cold, than cooling itself when it's hot. > how does anyone exercise or do heavy work outside in countries where the temperature falls to 18° some days of the year? 18°C is t-shirt territory if you're exercising or doing physical work. As you go below that, you adjust your clothing to keep enough body heat, trying to maintain the point when you aren't sweating badly at peak effort.
        1mo ago
collinmcnulty 1mo ago
I don’t think he actually lost the practice room. The person speaking was not the owner.
- serf 1mo ago
  At the very least it's a cliff hanger. If the authority figure has the balls to say 'fine, I'll get your contract terminated' I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that was exactly the outcome.
  - jstummbillig 1mo ago
    You should probably be a bit more surprised. There is a class of people (specially) in business, who threaten a lot habitually and don't act on it, if you call the bluff. The reason is that a lot of people do cave. "Free" wins. If it does not work, they just pretend nothing happened.
    - SoftTalker 1mo ago
      They also threaten things that they have no real power or authority to actually do, because they are used to people just rolling over and letting them get their way.
      - serf 1mo ago
        Well you don't actually know that from the story. Being in the same yacht club as the owner of the building conveys these kind of powers - it's like no one has encountered preferential treatment, good or bad, before.
        SoftTalker 1mo ago
        Agree, I was speaking more generally about the type of person who is just bossy because they usually get away with it.
    - serf 1mo ago
kunley 1mo ago
Teaching, yes: one should stand for what's important and there might be costs, one should do that despite the costs. Life is not only about gaining some short-term things.
weego 1mo ago
It feels like a LinkedIn post without the payoff.
nicbou 1mo ago
That's how boundaries work. When you set them, you define your actions when they are crossed, and you accept the consequences of those actions. It doesn't magically give you the upper hand in one-sided negotiations. It only ensures that your actions are in line with your principles.

crab_galaxy 1mo ago

Also this doesn’t even feel the same “no and negotiate” he’s advocating for? This is straight up “No.” Territory. He rents the dang space it’s not anyone else’s decision.

nkrisc 1mo ago
It could be someone else’s decision, it depends on what the rental agreement says. If it’s not specified, then that’s a good lesson learned for next time.
grey-area 1mo ago
He doesn’t any more.

nkrisc 1mo ago

To not be a pushover. The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. So this is probably the better outcome.

j_maffe 1mo ago
But that seems to have little to do with the quote... I'm confused.
Aurornis 1mo ago
> The alternative is also not getting what they want: a cold yoga space. The alternative was using the phone call with the manager to calmly explain the situation and try to negotiate. The blog kept talking about using "no" as a starting point for negotiating, then when the negotiation opportunity peaked he refused to listen to the other person and gloated about it. The second half of the book's advice (the negotiate part) flew right over his head. He was too stuck on the "No" part.
- SoftTalker 1mo ago
  It seems to me that the person who wasn't listening was the manager who ignored the reasonable reasons for not wanting a cold room and made up some bullshit about compressors.
  - Aurornis 1mo ago
    The blog literally says "I didn't care to understand" to demonstrate that he was not interested in listening. I would not assume the manager was making things up. He might have truly believed what he was saying. In these situations if you take the time to understand, you can get a lot of leverage by getting to the root of their concerns and then building a pathway to address them mutually. If they thought it was going to harm the compressor, you would listen and understand their concerns. Then you would explain that you are familiar with the system and can show them that it won't cause harm to the compressor. Then you propose a reasonable alternative, such as offering to set it to the desired temperature as soon as you leave and possibly sending them some authoritative HVAC source to allay their fears. The person in this story didn't even try to do that. If you spend time with professional sales people (the good ones), the first thing you learn is that you have to listen to the other side, understand the root of their concerns, and work toward a mutual resolution. If you shut down and refuse to even listen, you get nowhere like this guy.
    - deleted 1mo ago
      [deleted]
    - nkrisc 1mo ago
      That assumes they know that about how the system works. If you aren’t knowledgeable about it then the specifics aren’t really relevant.
  - cgriswald 1mo ago
    We have only one side of the story and he didn’t give us any details of what the manager actually said. He also mentions the manager said something about “costs”. The author’s wants are reasonable but that doesn’t mean the manager’s wants aren’t also reasonable.
Ekaros 1mo ago
What it seems they wanted was hot yoga space. With 2:30 hours of rent... When every single other user of space wanted slightly cold or reasonably air conditioned space. Maybe for good reasons like temperature raising during the day and thus wanting to buffer it more.
- hahahaa 1mo ago
  Yeah I think comments should be restricted to people who have lived in regular 37C/100F plus days. That will be most of us soon enough. Sure keep your AC off to mid morning lol!
  - Aachen 1mo ago
    The options aren't ≥37° xor =18°. Setpoints are ubiquitous and timers very common, too. They nearly got somewhere when talking about cooling different rooms by different amounts! I don't do sports but assuming the muscle heat requirement is a thing, how does anyone exercise or do heavy work outside in countries where the temperature falls to 18° some days of the year? Presumably one could use a jacket? And how do the office workers manage in 18° air? I'm a dude and I'd still freeze my nipples off when doing desk work when you can cook eggs outside and I came in a t-shirt. There's so much here that isn't explored and then the story ends open-ended. It doesn't seem useful even as an n=1 anecdote
    - TeMPOraL 1mo ago
      > I don't do sports but assuming the muscle heat requirement is a thing Metabolism produces heat, human bodies have a complex heat management system, that for reasons of physics, is much better at heating itself up when it's cold, than cooling itself when it's hot. > how does anyone exercise or do heavy work outside in countries where the temperature falls to 18° some days of the year? 18°C is t-shirt territory if you're exercising or doing physical work. As you go below that, you adjust your clothing to keep enough body heat, trying to maintain the point when you aren't sweating badly at peak effort.
      - 1mo ago

collinmcnulty 1mo ago

I don’t think he actually lost the practice room. The person speaking was not the owner.

serf 1mo ago
At the very least it's a cliff hanger. If the authority figure has the balls to say 'fine, I'll get your contract terminated' I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that was exactly the outcome.
- jstummbillig 1mo ago
  You should probably be a bit more surprised. There is a class of people (specially) in business, who threaten a lot habitually and don't act on it, if you call the bluff. The reason is that a lot of people do cave. "Free" wins. If it does not work, they just pretend nothing happened.
  - SoftTalker 1mo ago
    They also threaten things that they have no real power or authority to actually do, because they are used to people just rolling over and letting them get their way.
    - serf 1mo ago
      Well you don't actually know that from the story. Being in the same yacht club as the owner of the building conveys these kind of powers - it's like no one has encountered preferential treatment, good or bad, before.
      - SoftTalker 1mo ago
        Agree, I was speaking more generally about the type of person who is just bossy because they usually get away with it.
  - serf 1mo ago

kunley 1mo ago

Teaching, yes: one should stand for what's important and there might be costs, one should do that despite the costs. Life is not only about gaining some short-term things.

weego 1mo ago

It feels like a LinkedIn post without the payoff.

nicbou 1mo ago

That's how boundaries work. When you set them, you define your actions when they are crossed, and you accept the consequences of those actions. It doesn't magically give you the upper hand in one-sided negotiations. It only ensures that your actions are in line with your principles.