8 ms·

What Google is doing is shameful. One of the promises of Android was being more open than the restrictive Apple ecosystem. Now that they reached penetration th

What Google is doing is shameful. One of the promises of Android was being more open than the restrictive Apple ecosystem. Now that they reached penetration they do the switch - under the guise of security. Just let me do with my hardware what I want to do it. Let it be my responsibility to install whatever I want (and stop calling it "side-loading", as if I am doing something shady from the "side"). We need to resist this! Alas, from the broader response it seems that most people just do not care.

altairprime 3mo ago
Shame isn’t an applicable concept for a corporation.
- nehal3m 3mo ago
  Maybe we need an economic system where it is. Shame should come packaged with legal personhood.
  - altairprime 3mo ago
    Better to pass state bills modifying all of that state’s articles of incorporation to compel adherence to B-corp standards.
- stymaar 3mo ago
  Shame has ceased to be an applicable concept for anyone “important” enough to get free media attention.
sscaryterry 3mo ago
This is worse than Apple. With Apple you knew where you stood day 1.
- Grombobulous 3mo ago
  If you go back far enough, the original iPhone didn’t even promise to give you the ability to install apps.
- pjmlp 3mo ago
  Ah so the Do No Evil wasn't serious after all?! /s
  - zx8080 3mo ago
    It was indeed! And Google removed it in 2018. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil
    - breppp 3mo ago
      and it is still there https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of-conduct https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of...
      - leonidasrup 3mo ago
        Section "2. Competition Laws" https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/20/technology/google-antitrust-employee-messages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/20/technology/google-antitru...
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
  - frollogaston 3mo ago
    "Don't be evil" would be some evil company's motto in like Lego Movie 3
  - callmeal 3mo ago
    It's "Do More Evil" now.
- frollogaston 3mo ago
  [flagged]
- devsda 3mo ago
  Its worse in a different way. I mean when people complained about Apple, the standard reply was "if you don't like Apple use Android,it's open! ". Now when people complain about Android doing the same, the answer is how is it wrong if Google does it, when Apple has been doing this forever.
- fizzbuzzdizz 3mo ago
  lol my god the apple shills are out in full force. this is implementing a tiny fraction of control over probably less than 1% of android users (hint for the hn crowd: you dont represent real people and you need to remember that) in an effort to stop a very real problem that far far far more than the people affected by this face. yet they are worse than apple who has been doing this since day one to 100% of users. you’re an unserious person
  - sscaryterry 3mo ago
    I just made a comment. Whether or not you consider it serious or not is for you to decide.
avra 3mo ago
> We need to resist this! I agree. What do you suggest? How can we contribute to the resistance?
- Arnt 3mo ago
  This started with phishing, poor people being tricked to install apps that then drained their bank accounts. So to resist, maybe focus on that evil? Better international cooperation, better prosecution?
  - mschuster91 3mo ago
    We can't even get India and Turkey sanctioned for evading the anti-Russian sanctions... good luck holding them accountable for the scam callcenters.
  - stymaar 3mo ago
    > This started with phishing It didn't. Phishing is just a pretext. Google didn't care about Phishing for the first 20 years of Android. Why do they now? Because it serves as argument to close their platform a little more (which is a trend that has been going on for years).
    - frollogaston 3mo ago
      I do think it's about Google trying to squeeze profits out of Android, but is there more direct evidence of this? Cause I always have to wonder if it's something else like KYC.
      - Arnt 3mo ago
        Of course Google generally tries to squeeze profits out of… whatever it does, but eh, by closing something? Google is the company that makes a million in profit from the openness of the web in the time it takes me to write this paragraph, why would that company think that closing something improves its competitive stance?
ankurdhama 3mo ago
AFAIK you can still install any random APK but the process will require enabling developer mode and one time 24 hour wait period. But the problem is many stupid Apps check that developer mode is on and refuse to work.
- nutjob2 3mo ago
  How long before they take that option away?
- geokon 3mo ago
  An FDroid desktop client that adb installs APKs would actually be lovely. I pretty much exclusively use FDroid, but I gotta say I unfortunately find all their frontends to be rather buggy and with very little user feedback when things break (repo updates are hard to observe, downloads hang, updates mysteriously fail)
  - greeniskool 3mo ago
    I feel you about the frontends being buggy. Right now I've settled with Droid-ify[1] for doing my F-Droid browsing. [1] https://droidify.app/ https://droidify.app/
    - IIsi50MHz 3mo ago
      Droidify sometimes does a weird thing when installing apps: 1. Ensure Droidify is not running. 2. Launch it. 3. Tell it to install or update to an app. 4. Receive an Android system prompt to approve the install/update. 5. Approve it. 6. Tell Droidify to install or update another app. 7. Reveive a system prompt to approve the action of step #3 again. 8. Approve it. 9. Receive system prompt to approve step #6. 10. Repeat #6 through #9 for more apps. Workaround: Do steps #1 through #5. Foxy Droid doesn't have this problem, but won't auto-download updates for you.
- Liquid_Fire 3mo ago
  > many stupid Apps check that developer mode is on and refuse to work Do you have some examples? I have developer mode enabled and have never seen any apps complaining (and I have used a lot of different banking apps).
matheusmoreira 3mo ago
It's not just shameful, it's stupid. Freedom was the whole point of tolerating the shittiness of Android. If they get rid of that, then there is no point, and I'll just buy an iPhone instead. If I must be in a walled garden, I'll choose the better kept garden, and it sure as hell isn't Google's.
- VeejayRampay 3mo ago
  you think it's shitty, but it's a personal opinion that you're phrasing as some kind of widely accepted view be sure that it's not, lots of people actually PREFER Android
- int_19h 3mo ago
  Pragmatically speaking, I doubt that the percentage of users currently choosing Android over iOS for this reason would add up to even 1%. Android dominates worldwide by and large because of cost, and unless Apple pulls another Neo this shall remain regardless of how locked down they make it.
  - mirsadm 3mo ago
    An older iPhone is already better than most new cheaper Android phones.
    - Gander5739 3mo ago
      Many people disagree.
- palata 3mo ago
  I like Android a lot better. And I really, really like the fact that Android is open source, so that 1) I can read the sources and 2) projects like GrapheneOS can do it right. Apple does not remotely allow that.
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    The whole point of remote attestation is to ban projects like GrapheneOS which "do it right". If you install such things, you are "tampering" with the phone, it becomes an "untrusted" device and you are banned from digital society, completely ostracized. It's not your phone, it's the corporation's phone, they're only generously allowing you to use it, on their terms. If you install GrapheneOS, or any other system that you gives you ownership of the machine, from the bank's perspective you turn into a fraudster, from the video game's perspective you turn into a cheater, etc.
WarmWash 3mo ago
Epic games sued both Apple and Google for anti-competitive behavior. Apple was found not guilty. Google was found anti-competitive. In the appeal, Google asked the judge why Apple wasn't anti-comptitive and the judge told them that Apple wasn't anti-competitive because there were no competitors on their platform to compete with. Google lost the appeal, an inflection point in tech was created, and Google wondered why the hell they tried being open when xbox, playstation, nintendo, apple, all get to do whatever they want on their closed platform. It's incredible how little coverage that ruling gets despite how damning and detrimental to tech it's implications are.

altairprime 3mo ago

Shame isn’t an applicable concept for a corporation.

nehal3m 3mo ago
Maybe we need an economic system where it is. Shame should come packaged with legal personhood.
- altairprime 3mo ago
  Better to pass state bills modifying all of that state’s articles of incorporation to compel adherence to B-corp standards.
stymaar 3mo ago
Shame has ceased to be an applicable concept for anyone “important” enough to get free media attention.

sscaryterry 3mo ago

This is worse than Apple. With Apple you knew where you stood day 1.

Grombobulous 3mo ago
If you go back far enough, the original iPhone didn’t even promise to give you the ability to install apps.
pjmlp 3mo ago
Ah so the Do No Evil wasn't serious after all?! /s
- zx8080 3mo ago
  It was indeed! And Google removed it in 2018. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil
  - breppp 3mo ago
    and it is still there https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of-conduct https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of...
    - leonidasrup 3mo ago
      Section "2. Competition Laws" https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/20/technology/google-antitrust-employee-messages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/20/technology/google-antitru...
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
- frollogaston 3mo ago
  "Don't be evil" would be some evil company's motto in like Lego Movie 3
- callmeal 3mo ago
  It's "Do More Evil" now.
frollogaston 3mo ago
[flagged]
devsda 3mo ago
Its worse in a different way. I mean when people complained about Apple, the standard reply was "if you don't like Apple use Android,it's open! ". Now when people complain about Android doing the same, the answer is how is it wrong if Google does it, when Apple has been doing this forever.
fizzbuzzdizz 3mo ago
lol my god the apple shills are out in full force. this is implementing a tiny fraction of control over probably less than 1% of android users (hint for the hn crowd: you dont represent real people and you need to remember that) in an effort to stop a very real problem that far far far more than the people affected by this face. yet they are worse than apple who has been doing this since day one to 100% of users. you’re an unserious person
- sscaryterry 3mo ago
  I just made a comment. Whether or not you consider it serious or not is for you to decide.

avra 3mo ago

> We need to resist this! I agree. What do you suggest? How can we contribute to the resistance?

Arnt 3mo ago
This started with phishing, poor people being tricked to install apps that then drained their bank accounts. So to resist, maybe focus on that evil? Better international cooperation, better prosecution?
- mschuster91 3mo ago
  We can't even get India and Turkey sanctioned for evading the anti-Russian sanctions... good luck holding them accountable for the scam callcenters.
- stymaar 3mo ago
  > This started with phishing It didn't. Phishing is just a pretext. Google didn't care about Phishing for the first 20 years of Android. Why do they now? Because it serves as argument to close their platform a little more (which is a trend that has been going on for years).
  - frollogaston 3mo ago
    I do think it's about Google trying to squeeze profits out of Android, but is there more direct evidence of this? Cause I always have to wonder if it's something else like KYC.
    - Arnt 3mo ago
      Of course Google generally tries to squeeze profits out of… whatever it does, but eh, by closing something? Google is the company that makes a million in profit from the openness of the web in the time it takes me to write this paragraph, why would that company think that closing something improves its competitive stance?

ankurdhama 3mo ago

AFAIK you can still install any random APK but the process will require enabling developer mode and one time 24 hour wait period. But the problem is many stupid Apps check that developer mode is on and refuse to work.

nutjob2 3mo ago
How long before they take that option away?
geokon 3mo ago
An FDroid desktop client that adb installs APKs would actually be lovely. I pretty much exclusively use FDroid, but I gotta say I unfortunately find all their frontends to be rather buggy and with very little user feedback when things break (repo updates are hard to observe, downloads hang, updates mysteriously fail)
- greeniskool 3mo ago
  I feel you about the frontends being buggy. Right now I've settled with Droid-ify[1] for doing my F-Droid browsing. [1] https://droidify.app/ https://droidify.app/
  - IIsi50MHz 3mo ago
    Droidify sometimes does a weird thing when installing apps: 1. Ensure Droidify is not running. 2. Launch it. 3. Tell it to install or update to an app. 4. Receive an Android system prompt to approve the install/update. 5. Approve it. 6. Tell Droidify to install or update another app. 7. Reveive a system prompt to approve the action of step #3 again. 8. Approve it. 9. Receive system prompt to approve step #6. 10. Repeat #6 through #9 for more apps. Workaround: Do steps #1 through #5. Foxy Droid doesn't have this problem, but won't auto-download updates for you.
Liquid_Fire 3mo ago
> many stupid Apps check that developer mode is on and refuse to work Do you have some examples? I have developer mode enabled and have never seen any apps complaining (and I have used a lot of different banking apps).

matheusmoreira 3mo ago

It's not just shameful, it's stupid. Freedom was the whole point of tolerating the shittiness of Android. If they get rid of that, then there is no point, and I'll just buy an iPhone instead. If I must be in a walled garden, I'll choose the better kept garden, and it sure as hell isn't Google's.

VeejayRampay 3mo ago
you think it's shitty, but it's a personal opinion that you're phrasing as some kind of widely accepted view be sure that it's not, lots of people actually PREFER Android
int_19h 3mo ago
Pragmatically speaking, I doubt that the percentage of users currently choosing Android over iOS for this reason would add up to even 1%. Android dominates worldwide by and large because of cost, and unless Apple pulls another Neo this shall remain regardless of how locked down they make it.
- mirsadm 3mo ago
  An older iPhone is already better than most new cheaper Android phones.
  - Gander5739 3mo ago
    Many people disagree.
palata 3mo ago
I like Android a lot better. And I really, really like the fact that Android is open source, so that 1) I can read the sources and 2) projects like GrapheneOS can do it right. Apple does not remotely allow that.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  The whole point of remote attestation is to ban projects like GrapheneOS which "do it right". If you install such things, you are "tampering" with the phone, it becomes an "untrusted" device and you are banned from digital society, completely ostracized. It's not your phone, it's the corporation's phone, they're only generously allowing you to use it, on their terms. If you install GrapheneOS, or any other system that you gives you ownership of the machine, from the bank's perspective you turn into a fraudster, from the video game's perspective you turn into a cheater, etc.

WarmWash 3mo ago

Epic games sued both Apple and Google for anti-competitive behavior. Apple was found not guilty. Google was found anti-competitive. In the appeal, Google asked the judge why Apple wasn't anti-comptitive and the judge told them that Apple wasn't anti-competitive because there were no competitors on their platform to compete with. Google lost the appeal, an inflection point in tech was created, and Google wondered why the hell they tried being open when xbox, playstation, nintendo, apple, all get to do whatever they want on their closed platform. It's incredible how little coverage that ruling gets despite how damning and detrimental to tech it's implications are.