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New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers
- fourseventy 3mo ago[flagged]
- nailer 3mo agoAlaska maybe? Water, cold temperatures, low latency to contiguous USA. Shove them underground so nobody has to look at them.
- pchristensen 3mo agoExcavating that much volume would be a heck of an expense.
- conjectures 3mo agoMars doesn't have zoning laws yet. /jk
- binarymax 3mo agoNIMBY = Not In Mars Back Yard
- mcphage 3mo ago> Elons datacenters in space are looking smarter and smarter by the day. Where would the heat go?
- OutOfHere 3mo agoThat is a great question, and materials are still being researched to dissipate heat effectively in space. Meanwhile, I put together this brief video to document the current understanding: https://youtu.be/s7Mv_OcBXI8 https://youtu.be/s7Mv_OcBXI8 ⤷ Engineering Constraints of Orbital Space-Based Compute: Heat Rejection and more
- OutOfHere 3mo agoWhere does the heat always go? It goes into the environment. In space the environment is space. It goes from high-temperature GPU made for space to a large metamaterial coated heatsink with optimal geometry to radiate into space.
- runtime_terror 3mo agoYou can't be serious? I hope I'm just missing the joke To have an equivalent capacity of DCs in space would require such astronomical costs there is 0 chance it would be profitable esp considering how fast GPUs deprecate How about we start with actually finishing all the datacenters we've started (many if not most are unstarted, paused or outright cancelled)?
- ciupicri 3mo ago"Data centers in space makes no sense", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46876105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46876105 "Starcloud can’t put a data centre in space at $8.2M in one Starship", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44390781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44390781
- OutOfHere 3mo agoYour argument is complete nonsense, like asserting in the 19th century that airplanes and air travel make no sense. Dismissing is easy; being an inventor takes work. If people listen to you, we will never become a Kardashev II civilization, and it'll be your fault. There is plenty of scientific literature on the topic of cooling hot materials in space. Moreover, the research is not finished -- it will continue to progress. I surveyed the current works, and put together a video to communicate the salient points: https://youtu.be/s7Mv_OcBXI8 https://youtu.be/s7Mv_OcBXI8 ⤷ Engineering Constraints of Orbital Space-Based Compute: Heat Rejection and more
- binarymax 3mo agoI submitted this link, which is clearly written by an LLM but has a good overview. Here's the actual bill: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S10642 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S10642
- OutOfHere 3mo agoThe submitted link is not even loading. Meanwhile, here are two independent LLM generated "news" article generated from the Assembly and Senate bills respectively: https://gist.github.com/impredicative/483b46ff294be6b69b0a34b2eec0d791 https://gist.github.com/impredicative/483b46ff294be6b69b0a34...
- defmetrix 3mo agoI want to continue to build data centers, but I dont really want one in my back yard either. But New York seems to be hurting itself lately, the states job growth has slowed over the past few years. This reminds me of them canceling the Amazon HQ.
- thinkingtoilet 3mo agoSo other people's back yards it is! What a wonderful philosophy. As for Amazon HQ, I don't know what NY's deal was but I was in Boston when it was a consideration and the amount of tax breaks they wanted was insane and would have been a huge net loss for the city. I'm very glad it wasn't moved there. It doesn't matter if you create a few thousand jobs if you get literal billions in tax breaks, it's a net loss for the state.
- sincerely 3mo agoWell there are plenty of places that aren’t in anyone’s backyard
- beart 3mo ago"Backyard" is obviously not to be taken literally. Anywhere you put one of these things is going to have an impact on the region. But perhaps you can provide some examples of places that are not in anyone's backyard?
- kube-system 3mo ago"in [someone's] backyard" is a colloquialism that refers to "those who are in that area"
- alpha_squared 3mo agoIf I remember correctly, reporting at the time just after DC was selected was suggesting that it was always going to be DC to be in close proximity to government and that the whole fiasco was a way to extract as many concessions as possible from the city in its efforts to "compete" for the new offices. What even is an "HQ" if the actual headquarters that disproportionately houses more office workers than anywhere else is still in Seattle?
- nazgulsenpai 3mo agoI clicked the article expecting to see some feel-good political grandstanding (I'm a bit cynical these days) but honestly, this seems like a decent approach. Pause approvals for a year giving breathing room for researching the impacts, and hopefully address them.
- declan_roberts 3mo agoAre data centers a new and mysterious technology?
- babypuncher 3mo agoThe mad rush to build datacenters at this unprecedented scale is already wreaking havoc on the consumer economy. The needs of everyday people are far more important than the whims of a few trillion dollar tech companies run by billioinaires.
- throwaway198846 3mo agoThese are not new or unpredictable impacts.
- kube-system 3mo agoThe scale is new, and impacts are predictable, thus the moratorium.
- fintechjock 3mo agoHow are they harming consumers? I would think that consumers would vastly benefit from cheaper software, nearly unlimited cloud storage, lower property taxes. Heck, the next generation of data centers are looking like they will actually be net energy producers. Consumers might not know that they benefit from data centers, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t
- wat10000 3mo ago
- CodingJeebus 3mo agoGlad to see this, the rate at which these developments have been getting approved clearly isn't sustainable and developers have a major incentive to getting projects locked in before regulators come in to change the laws around how data centers connect to the grid, which is almost certainly happening.
- arjie 3mo agoAm I the only one who wants a datacenter in his backyard? I actually went down a little over a year ago to get a cabinet down at Hosting.com’s old location round the corner only to find that they’ve been gone from there (and the DC business) for a few years now and the new owners have kept it fallow. I have to drive down to Fremont for a similar price point now. I would gladly have paid 30% more to just go down the street in SF’s SOMA. Perhaps I should have considered Digital Realty’s facility down on Paul Ave but they’re harder to get a small system up on. It does mean I try to make sure I get it right when I set up. But it also means that if I goofed some cable management then that’s it because I’m not going back to fix it till next time. Something that would be cool for the future would be if luxury apartment buildings offered their own cabinets for the use of residents. Haha, a man can dream.
- sgerenser 3mo agoIt would be worth separating out the “traditional” data centers (which offer things like colocation, and mostly run pretty standard CPU-bound or network-bound workloads) from “AI” data centers (which have racks and racks of extremely dense GPUs or accelerators). It’s really the latter that people should be concerned about due to their much larger scale, higher power draw, and propensity to use dirty, on-site power generation.
- cucumber3732842 3mo ago> higher power draw, and propensity to use dirty, on-site power generation. It speaks volumes about the degree to which we've regulated and NIMBY'd and everything else'd utility build out that on site generation in any case other than a blackout so pencils out anywhere in the US save perhaps remote regions of Alaska
- arjie 3mo agoI do have GPUs running there and I'd be running them denser if I'd already paid for the power. To be honest, there's no room on 3rd Street to put turbines next to the DC there so if they wanted to put in AI they'd have to upgrade the power delivery. I don't mind that so much. Besides, most DC operators would rather pay for power than do on-site generation. That's just an artifact of what we disincentivize. Water always finds the lowest point and so on.
- dec0dedab0de 3mo ago[flagged]
- nickphx 3mo agonot really. datacenters require greater weight, power and cooling density per square foot than the typical commercial office space was built to accomodate..
- dec0dedab0de 3mo agoThen they can put less stuff in each one. Destroying nature to maximize corporate value is not ok.
- nickphx 3mo agothe economics do not work without the density.
- sgerenser 3mo agoI think the issue is there’s very few empty existing buildings big enough to house a modern AI data center.
- esseph 3mo ago> The obvious answer to everyone's concerns is to build them in unused buildings in cities that already have infrastructure to support them. This is the problem. These are mostly old office buildings. They are not designed to supply that much electricity and water on each floor. These racks and equipment also weigh a lot and the building floors and building itself probably isn't rated for that. Not only that, but to get the buildings themselves more electricity and water often requires a very expensive process of digging up possibly multiple streets, with associated costs and permitting. In addition to the water delivery issue, there's power delivery. It may not even be possible to get that building enough power in the next decade or more, because there simply may not be enough power generation capability. Basically, a lot of the same problems that exist when trying to turn an old office building into high rise apartments, but magnified many times over.
- FergusArgyll 3mo agoI don't get it, nyc wants to add government programs, they obviously need to tax something. Here come massive corps willing to invest a ton of money, just tax them at some reasonable rate and voila, you can now pay for city funded grocery stores or whatever
- distortionfield 3mo agoThey already have a balanced budget, why would they need to cave to these corporations?
- akramachamarei 3mo agoThey only have a balanced budget until their deferred bills come due, bills deferred precisely so they can declare the budget balanced, bills such as paying pensions.
- runtime_terror 3mo agoSo by your logic if a massive company came and said they want to setup an oil refinery or coal power plant you'd say they should say yes just because they could get tax revenue? You always have to way the pros and cons of such massive projects. Plus, this isn't a ban it's just a one year moratorium so impact etc can be studied.
- WarmWash 3mo agoA datacenter ranks close to zero on the pollution scale. By comparison a golf course looks like a Superfund site.
- runtime_terror 3mo agoYou've got to be kidding? "AI" data centers consume massive amounts of energy per square foot, have been caught using LNG generators for power, have polluted ground water, material usage, habitat destruction, etc How about you provide some proof? (PS I'm not advocating that golf courses are good for the environment - they're not - but data centers are absolutely not "zero on the pollution scale" that is laughable)
- ecshafer 3mo agoPopulist nonsense like this is all that New York passes. Data Centers have minimal impact, provides some jobs, and New York needs to upgrade their power system and build more power plants anyways.
- runtime_terror 3mo agoMinimal impact as defined by whom? I'm sure they impact those that live around them plenty as well as the price on electricity for those on the same grid. They provide mostly temporary jobs (and majority imported to boot), after construction they're run with very little staff. New York needs to upgrade its power grid (source?) so they should force it upon themselves by primitively overloading the grid? A one year moratorium while impact is investigated, esp considering the current state of datacenters buildout, especially considering many in the US are either unstarted, on hold or abandoned, seems reasonable.
- fintechjock 3mo agoWhat would you estimate is the annual electricity spend for those living next to data centers and those who don’t?
- runtime_terror 3mo agoNot sure how to answer this. It's pretty well documented that datacenters (esp the AI variety) are offloading grid expenses to customers as higher baseline costs. The issue is that these DCs are not paying for the cost of the necessary grid upgrades but are instead having the power cos pass these costs off to all consumers as base increases.
- fintechjock 3mo agoFound something. Not very exact data, but Virginia has the highest concentration of data centers per capita, but average electric bills: https://www.electricchoice.com/average-electric-bills/ https://www.electricchoice.com/average-electric-bills/ I agree with your take on tradeoffs when it comes to DCs that are built with tax abatements, which are a terrible deal for consumers. Those that are not receiving tax benefits will make up for short-term energy prices with long-term property tax benefits, that will eventually pay back the grid upgrades and fund even more upgrades in the future.
- satellite2 3mo agoHow is a data center defined? Is a small business dedicating a room to server racks a "data center"?
- kube-system 3mo agoThe law defines it as (approximately) anything connected to a public utility that has more than one megawatt of computing power.
- jasonlotito 3mo agohttps://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S10642 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S10642
- ks2048 3mo agoIt would be ironic if irrational anti-data center actions was the one thing that prevented an irrational AI bubble. (I’m thinking of a bubble in building/funding/economics, not in abilities).
- SirFatty 3mo agoyeah, irrational...
- mhb 3mo agoOther than data centers being the bogeyman du jour, why isn't the bill written more generally to address potential impacts of any large new business that is anticipated to create effects like noise, pollution, infrastructure requirements, etc. It's not already required for proposed businesses to address these issues?
- threwrfaway 3mo agoData centers growth is consuming resources far beyond other industrial users. Aluminum smelters use a lot of DC power, but smelters aren't popping up like VC fertilized mushrooms.
- mhb 3mo agoNot really the point. Should we have separate laws for stealing from grocery stores, electronics stores and drug stores because they have different characteristics?
- threwrfaway 3mo agoIt's exactly the point! Data Centers have a unique capability to damage property, society and the environment. A new aluminum smelter, dirty as they are, wont double your electric bill and will employ far more people than a datacenter (other than ex-marines w/ shoot to kill orders, who works there?)
- mhb 3mo agoSo why doesn't the way New York addresses new aluminum smelter businesses apply to new data centers?
- threwrfaway 3mo agoWell, let's use discernment. Let's also add NH3 plants since those are also electricity hogs. 1. There's no VC distorted market building hundreds of them. At most two Al or NH3 will ever be built again in this country. 2. We need Al and NH3 in a way that we dont need data centers. Most of the protein in your body comes from synthetic NH3. Al has slashed CO2 emissions in industry. There's a Middle Eastern fertilizer and Al crisis that's going to devastate our economies. Al and NH3 should have been on-shored 20 years ago. 3. Its already impossible to build NH3 or Al plants in NY due to other regulatory laws that target Al and NH3. So, NY state in its (/s) infinite wisdom (/s) has realized that New Yorkers need to eat more than it needs to feed a surveillance state.
- saltyoldman 3mo agoB. THE TERM "DATA CENTER" SHALL NOT INCLUDE FACILITIES MAJORITY-OWNED, OPERATED, OR OTHERWISE CONTROLLED BY A PUBLIC RESEARCH INSTITUTION AND USED FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES. Lol, always a carveout for the commies.
- deepsun 3mo agoAnd that is why China wins in production.
- autoexec 3mo agoBecause they'll pollute their land/air/water and force their people to be harmed whenever it's economically convenient because the people in China don't have a voice in their government? I think I prefer democracy.
- loudmax 3mo agoThe AI-driven data center roll out raises some legitimate concerns that really ought to be considered and discussed at the political level. I doubt that a blanket ban on data centers is the right approach. These are the data center issues as I understand them, in ascending order of importance: * Water use: Almost always a red herring or non-issue, unless the DC is being built in an area with water shortages. DC's use a lot of water, but their use is negligible compared to many other industries. * Neighborhood appearance: They're not particularly pretty to have in your back yard, but much less ugly than, say, a factory. They're not inherently polluting. * Power draw: This is a legitimate concern as DC's use an enormous amount of electricity. In the short run, it could make sense for deep-pocketed investors to subsidize residential or non-DC power consumption to keep everyone's electric bills from skyrocketing. Longer term, power companies will need to build much more generating infrastructure. I'd love to see a carbon tax to encourage the construction of renewable (or nuclear) power. Sadly, the current US administration seems intent on vice-maxing and ruining as much as they can for future generations. * AI-driven job displacement: I think this is the real worry people have. The water use thing is an excuse people are looking for to oppose AI. IMHO, that last one is the crux of the issue, and banning DCs from being built in New York will do absolutely nothing to alleviate this concern. The tech billionaire class has been harping about how they'll make money for investors by automating everyone's job, and the people have noticed. My optimistic take is that AI companies won't in fact capture all of the value from automation, because they'll be competing against each other, and against open weights models. But who knows? Maybe a single company will achieve Super-AGI first and they'll own the world. I doubt that will happen, but this is what they're aiming for, and a lot of the money invested only makes sense in light of that goal. And even in my optimistic scenario, the job disruption will be quite real. New jobs will be created as other jobs are lost to automation. That's well and good after things have settled, but it is very disruptive to people's careers and ambitions in the mean time.
- WarmWash 3mo agoIt's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Ultimately you end up looking stupid and uninformed, because you have to lie and half-truth to make datacenters look evil. And the people protesting are all factually incorrect about what they are protesting. Just go after AI directly, or at least frame the arguments against datacenters in the context of AI.
- j_w 3mo ago> It's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. Is it? Data centers are being built with tax incentives given to the operators, no regard for impact on the local utilities, and they bring no local jobs (at least not long term). Seems like lots of negatives to communities if development continues like this.
- nancyminusone 3mo agoI can assure you that people protesting the the one near where I live barely know or care about AI, but they know something is up when a giant evil fuckass building shows up seemingly overnight. Who knows what sort of horrible things are going on inside, it's not like you'll be allowed in to check. The only connection to AI is that the AI companies placed the order for it. My town also protested when Walmart decided they wanted to install one of their mega shopping centers here. A big building means someone has too much money, and its only a matter of time until they use it against YOU.
- liglam 3mo ago[dead]
- autoexec 3mo ago> People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Turns out you you don't have to reach very far at all https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.06288 https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.06288 https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/data-center-water-pollution-amazon-oregon-1235466613/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/data-c... https://news.asu.edu/20260518-environment-and-sustainability-turning-down-heat-data-centers https://news.asu.edu/20260518-environment-and-sustainability... We already know that that data centers impact the environment in many ways and can be harmful for the water, air, and the health of the people around them. It's the dose that makes the poison though and so the push for more and more data centers increase the harms.
- postalrat 3mo agoWe aren't even trying any more. China and the east are the future.
- autoexec 3mo agoI'm not convinced that communism is the future. I'm happy to stick with democracy where the government doesn't just force harms on the public whenever it will make them more money and voter's concerns about health and environmental impacts are listened to.
- postalrat 3mo agoGreat. Solve our problems with politics while china solves it with technology.
- autoexec 3mo agotechnology and communism you mean.
- distortionfield 3mo ago> where the government doesn't just force harms on the public whenever it will make them more money and voter's concerns about health and environmental impacts are listened to. This is exactly what just happened in Utah et. al. with the new Stratos data center under western liberal democracy, btw.