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> United States using its military to keep international waters open Being a little pedantic, as per my knowledge, the Strait of Hormuz is not “international w
by AnonC 4mo ago
> United States using its military to keep international waters open
Being a little pedantic, as per my knowledge, the Strait of Hormuz is not “international waters”. It’s territorial waters belonging to Iran and Oman. AFAIK, Iran hasn’t ratified UNCLOS either, and claims it is not subject to it.
- Pay08 4mo agoNo, the Strait is international waters and always have been.
- jbxntuehineoh 4mo agoWikipedia says it's been Iranian/Omani territorial waters for quite a while: > In 1959, Iran altered the legal status of the strait by expanding its territorial sea to 12 nmi (22 km) and declaring it would recognize only transit by innocent passage through the newly expanded area. In 1972, Oman also expanded its territorial sea to 12 nmi (22 km) by decree. Thus, by 1972, the Strait of Hormuz was completely "closed" by the combined territorial waters of Iran and Oman.
- nwallin 4mo agoWikipedia does not say that the Strait is Iranian/Omani territorial waters. Wikipedia says that Iran and Oman claim that the Strait is Iranian/Omani territorial waters. Claiming it does not make it so.
- FireBeyond 4mo agoThe Strait may well have some, but the traffic separation scheme for shipping is absolutely in Omani territorial waters, and another part of traversing the Strait includes passing through Iranian territorial waters.
- throwaway27448 4mo agoOk, so just de facto iranian. However, I believe Oman also collects fees. So in practice the distinction wrt shipping is moot
- Jensson 4mo agoOman doesn't collect fees... > Ok, so just de facto iranian. No, the route is entirely outside of Iranian waters. They attacked ships that were in Oman waters and put mines in Oman waters and now shoot at anyone trying to removing those mines in Oman waters. Nobody, not even the Iranian government, claims that is their water.
- throwaway27448 4mo agook, I guess the strait is just straight iranian
- bpodgursky 4mo agoAll straits other than the Bosporus (which has some additional rights to Turkey given the proximity to a major city) are international waters for the purposes of free transit, under the Montreux Convention.
- WorkerBee28474 4mo agoThe Montreux Convention only covers the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits. Not all straits in the world.
- throw9394048 4mo agoWhy is US blocking hormuz straits then?
- nradov 4mo agoThe US is is not blocking the Strait of Hormuz. There don't appear to be any US warships even in the Strait at the moment. What the US is doing is enforcing a partial blockade against Iran, largely in waters southeast of the Strait. We can argue about whether this is a good policy but let's not make things up. https://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-View/Article/4457255/us-to-blockade-ships-entering-or-exiting-iranian-ports/ https://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-V...
- potatototoo99 4mo agoThe US is not blocking the strait because they'd be at the bottom of the sea if they got closer lol
- codedokode 4mo agoIt is ridiculous that countries like Australia (a party to a convention) have a say in whether Turkey should or should not pass ships through the strait. This looks like a legacy of colonization era. This convention should be repelled, and the new agreement should be made by Russia and Turkey and other Black sea countries ignoring the interests of colonizers.
- adrr 4mo ago> Iran hasn’t ratified UNCLOS either, and claims it is not subject to it. Which isn't unique. Bunch of countries haven't ratified it and aren't legally bound by it but do follow it in spirit. US, Turkey, UAE, Israel etc.
- anigbrowl 4mo agoDo you really think the US wouldn't abandon it in a heartbeat if it became a matter of strategic necessity?
- adrr 4mo agoCountries that haven't signed do violate it. Israel prevents ships free transit to the Gaza strip. US does naval blockades and blows up boats.
- Jensson 4mo agoNaval blockades of enemy ports during war are legal, that is what USA and Israel argue they are doing. That is not what Iran is doing, they are blocking fully neutral ships from going in other countries waterways.
- adrr 4mo agoUS at war? We are past the 60 days for a military operation. From US law perspective, it’s illegal. From the constitutional perspective only congress can declare war which they haven’t.
- Jensson 4mo ago> From US law perspective, it’s illegal But US law is not international law. Internationally you are at war, whatever you call it internally doesn't matter to me.
- 4mo ago
- Majromax 4mo ago> It’s territorial waters belonging to Iran and Oman. The trick is that it's still an 'international strait', or a segment of water that forms the only connection between two areas of high seas -- in this case the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman. The principle of freedom of navigation establishes that innocent traffic (civilian traffic, and even warships in peacetime) have a right to use the strait to go from one body of international water to the other. Iran may claim that it doesn't have to abide by that right, but international law is never self-executing. One question to be resolved by this war is whether Iran will ultimately recognize the right to navigation in any settlement (and then choose to abide by said settlement).
- irishcoffee 4mo agoInternational law isn’t worth the time someone spent to write the words. It means approximately nothing. OPEC is a cartel, for example.
- watwut 4mo agoOPEC is not against international law.
- ebbi 4mo agoInternational Law now has no value when the America-Israel alliance has been skirting said laws to commit mass atrocities in recent history.
- nradov 4mo agoIf Iran doesn't want to observe the terms of the UNCLOS (regardless of whether they have ratified it or not) then their territorial waters claims revert to the older 3NM limit. They can't have it both ways. Of course, in practice those legalisms don't matter without a means of enforcement.
- justinator 4mo agoIt's prohibited under international law to attack a sovereign nation, like the US has done to Iran, so the point of Iran closing the Strait in response to this is very much moot.