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More victims of AI. Not actually of "AI is replacing jobs", more "oh shit we are spending too much and the product isn't good enough for us to ever make a retu

by dafelst 6mo ago

More victims of AI. Not actually of "AI is replacing jobs", more "oh shit we are spending too much and the product isn't good enough for us to ever make a return on our absurd over-investment".

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
consp 6mo ago
"Oracle leadership" sounds like nobody wants to take responsibility but they do like the share price to go up so say good bye to [auto generated name in header]'s job.
- progbits 6mo ago
  Stock barely moved after this news. Would be surprised if it isn't below 100 by H2.
muskstinks 6mo ago
I don't think its that easy. Look at their employee numbers over the years: (ai generated): Oracle Corporation Employee Count (2010 - 2025) Legend: Each '' represents approximately 4,000 employees. Year | Employees ------------------------------------------------------------------ 2010 | (105,000) 2011 | (108,000) 2012 | (115,000) 2013 | (120,000) 2014 | (122,000) 2015 | (132,000) 2016 | (136,000) 2017 | (138,000) 2018 | (137,000) 2019 | (136,000) 2020 | (135,000) 2021 | (132,000) 2022 | (143,000) 2023 | (164,000) 2024 | (159,000) 2025 | (162,000) Note: Oracle's fiscal reporting for the full year 2025 ended on May 31, 2025. They clearly did something crazy at corona and undoing this as a lot of companies did before already.
- jimbokun 6mo ago
  So they are returning to 2015 headcount. (EDIT: or 2021)
- perching_aix 6mo ago
  But the up curve at the end very clearly tracks with AI adoption and not Corona?
- Foobar8568 6mo ago
  More employees to release less stuff.... Smell like consultancy.
- gedy 6mo ago
  Their profit doubled from 2010 to 2025 though, no?
- CoolGuySteve 6mo ago
  Even at 100k employees I’m still dumbfounded by that number. What do all these people do all day?
  - ra_men 6mo ago
    I’m guessing development is so slow that they have stacks of teams working in parallel to accomplish what 1 team could normally.
  - Simboo 6mo ago
    Me too. Anyone here to enlighten us?
  - drowntoge 6mo ago
    Well, whatever Oracle is doing, which brings us back to a question very similar to your original one.
  - stackskipton 6mo ago
    Oracle sells alot of software that is accompanied by hordes of consultants to set it up. Last F50 I was at did a PeopleSoft migration. We probably had 400 Oracle employees pass through the doors over 2 years helping to get it off the ground. Most Enterprises don't just buy software and that's it. They buy software + support to implement it for their business.
    - CoolGuySteve 6mo ago
      Sure but what did those guys do all day? 400 people is a lot of people
      - davidw 6mo ago
        "Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!"
      - 6mo ago
- hyperpape 6mo ago
  If I do my python right, from 2010-2020 they grew by 2.5% annually, from 2020 to 2025, they grew headcount by 3.7% annually. After the layoffs, they'll apparently now have grown by 1.0% annually since 2020. So yes, from 2021 to 2023, they had a huge spike, but overall, it's a net slowdown in growth relative to the 2010-2020 period. If this was about reversion to the old pattern they'd have done a smaller set of layoffs or simply wait for a few years of zero growth.
  - _aavaa_ 6mo ago
    You did the Python right but the analysis wrong. Looking at it on a graph you can see that interpreting a single growth rate for the entire period (even if you stop pre-covid) doesn’t make sense. You can see linear growth from 2010-2017. Then slow decline or at best a flatline from 2018-2021. Then they went crazy in 2022-2025. Now if we just do 162k - 30k we are back to 132k, basically same ballpark as pre-COVID.
    - franktankbank 6mo ago
      That's not how stocks are measured on wall street. They picked the dumb metric.
  - throwaway5465 6mo ago
    Or a pickup from 2015 - 2021 which was 0% growth. It's tricky to pick an end-of-decade year also - recessions tend to happen +/- 2 years of the end of each decade in the USA, or at least have done since records began in the 19th century. For example 2010 was recovery over 2008/2009's bust. It's not like comparing March to Ma4ch for a crude seasonal adjustment.
- RobRivera 6mo ago
  You need to pair hc with revenue, otherwise this data tells only one story, hc growth.
- sethev 6mo ago
  > They clearly did something crazy at corona They acquired Cerner, which had ~30k employees.
  - ge96 6mo ago
    Cool to be part of history I used to go into that office Innovations campus Saw someone had a license plate say MPAGES ha
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- dijksterhuis 6mo ago
  > (ai generated) here's a link to an actual source for people who also don't trust ai generated stuff https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/number-of-employees https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/number... edit: this source also includes data/graphs on stock price and bunch of other metrics, rather than just one number over time.
  - jonas21 6mo ago
    The graph in your Macrotrends link shows the exact same numbers as the AI source, but is harder to read and the page is half ads. It's not an authoritative source -- the data was most likely parsed out of Oracle's earning reports by some janky regexp. I don’t know why you would trust this more than AI.
    - dijksterhuis 6mo ago
      > harder to read and the page is half ads with an adblocker ... there is one ad on the page just above the graph about "Unlock Macrotrends Premium" which takes up 1.5/2cm of the page, while the graph underneath it takes up like 15cm. Then there's a bunch of other information on the page, none of which are ads. yes, there's a "you only get 5 page visits free" whole page pop-up thing, but there's an easy and well-known way round that for individuals who understand basic internet browser usage. maybe start using an ad-blocker? pretty much everyone else does these days. > the data was most likely parsed out of Oracle's earning reports by some janky regexp. which is probably what the ai would do... or more likely it's just stealing it from the source i linked, since the numbers are exactly the same... also, probably not because see (1b) below. > I don’t know why you would trust this more than AI. because (1a) > Fundamental data from Zacks Investment Research, Inc. > Built on Zacks Investment Research — trusted by institutional investors, academics, and financial professionals for over 45 years. [0] I'd take people who have been doing this stuff for 45 years over some new-fangled toy that's well known to hallucinate and get things wrong in ways that appear authoritative. also, on that (1b) > Zacks employs a rigorous quality control process to make sure all data points are recorded accurately. For each company, a trained analyst enters the data from SEC filings, which is then double checked by a senior analyst. Once the data is entered, a senior analyst signs off on final completion after reviewing all the data. In addition, the data is subjected to a battery of automated checks to verify balancing relationships and correct errors. All data items are reviewed by multiple sets of trained eyes as well as automated computer checks. [1] and (2) because that site provides other contextual information that is helpful, like the fact that Oracle's stock price has been trending downwards, which is possibly a reason why they felt the need to make cuts now. [2] ai gives you the answer you want -- not the answers you might actually need. [0]: https://zacksdata.com https://zacksdata.com [1]: https://zacksdata.com/static/docs/Zacks_Fundamental_Data_Overview.pdf https://zacksdata.com/static/docs/Zacks_Fundamental_Data_Ove... [2]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/stock-price-history https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/stock-... edit1: apparently you're not using an adblocker, wtf dude, it's 2026. use an adblocker. edit2: added (1b)
- gib444 6mo ago
  Where's the annual revenue for context? Those numbers are almost useless alone.
  - muskstinks 6mo ago
    Feel free to add more info to this discussion. I only wanted to point out that number of jobs in context of the company growth. I found 160k already a huge/gigantic number though.
- hbn 6mo ago
  What's the point of posting statistics if they're not fact-checked and come from no verifiable source? At best they're right but we don't know until someone else fact-checked it for you, and at worst you're just spreading misinformation and we don't know until, again, someone else fact-checked it for you. If you want to use AI to find information like this, tell it to grab you a source and post that.
- lenerdenator 6mo ago
  The "Something crazy at corona" would likely be, in part, their purchase of Cerner Corporation in 2021-2022. I want to say there were 10k-ish employees? Maybe more? I have friends there who have described how bare-bones things were. This is only going to make it worse. I would not patronize a hospital system that intended on staying on Cerner Millennium EMRs for the foreseeable future. If things were bad before, they'll only be worse now.
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    From what I've heard Epic can be as bad, but at least they're dedicated to one product.
- mandevil 6mo ago
  In June 2022 the Oracle acquisition of Cerner (a EMR now billed as Oracle Health) closed, so that would be after the 2022 date and before the 2023 date. Cerner was 28,000 employees. If they do cut back to their size before the acquisition, while continuing to try and support the EMR, they will be doing a lot more with fewer employees. The acquisition has already had a lot of bad consequences: https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-cerner-health-larry-ellison-28-billion-deadly-gamble-veterans-2024-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-cerner-health-larry-e...
renewiltord 6mo ago
One of the ideal things that companies can do is not hire people. A company that never hires someone will never let anyone go and consequently is the only ethical company. The worst thing that a company could do is pay someone to do a job for a while. In fact, one thing we could do is make sure that all jobs should be perpetual. If someone hires you, they can't stop paying you until they die or declare bankruptcy. This is sure to be good for workers.
- the_real_cher 6mo ago
  Termination will take on a while different meaning of this turns out to come true on some Black Mirror future.
- shepherdjerred 6mo ago
  It’s not unethical to lay someone off
  - whamlastxmas 6mo ago
    When done for profit maximizing reasons it's not any worse than capitalism itself, but then this degrades into whether capitalism is ethical which is off topic
    - WalterBright 6mo ago
      Profit maximization makes for the high standard of living we enjoy.
      - wiseowise 6mo ago
        The one where one trip to ER can leave you on the street and students have six digit debts?
        WalterBright 6mo ago
        Ironically, you picked two systems that are heavily interfered with by the government. Back in the Great Depression, my great grandmother got sick and was hospitalized, and they took care of her until she passed. My grandfather did not have enough to pay the bill. The hospital told him not to worry, just pay what he could. It took him a while, but he paid the bill in full.
alephnerd 6mo ago
> More victims of AI According to the article as well as blind, the main teams hit were associated with Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP). Oracle's AI spend is part of Oracle Cloud. That said, I guess it can be argued that Cerner and NetSuite being on the chopping block can be attributed to AI because now procurement has the choice to either build in-house via an Anthropic or OpenAI SI like Accenture or TCS or they can negotiate better purchasing terms from a best-in-breed product in HRM and ERP like SAP instead. I also find it interesting how American and European HNers are much more negative about AI compared to their Chinese, Indian, and Israeli peers even though they have a significant amount to lose as well.
- SlinkyOnStairs 6mo ago
  -
  - alephnerd 6mo ago
    That isn't though. Both Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP) were laggards in their market segments for years. If I'm the Director of Enterprise Applications and have a budget allocated to procurement, I have no reason to purchase a laggard product like Cerner or NetSuite even with the Oracle bundle when SAP is giving significant discounts because OpenAI, Anthropic, and GCP are offering partnerships with systems integrations like Accenture or Deloitte to fully build out and manage your own hyperspecific ERP or EHR. There's no reason to keep investing in products in a market that was already past it's growth stage pre-AI with a clear market winner, especially now that there is downstream pressure that makes build much more attractive than buying an inferior product. Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post. Edit: can't reply > I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit It did when I posted. The only edit I made after you posted was fixing HRM to EHR. > You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting. I strongly disagree. My entire thesis is that Cerner and NetSuite were bad businesses. If a business is bad you kill the business. No need to gaslight me and delete your response.
    - 6mo ago
cyanydeez 6mo ago
[flagged]
- gustavus 6mo ago
  > this whole fascist, AI, far right nationalist takeover Well that's a new take I haven't heard before. That the AI is actually a far right nationalist takeover.... That's an interesting perspective.
  - goku12 6mo ago
    Are you not aware of the techno-authoritarian ambitions of the silicon valley tech bros? It isn't much of a secret these days, after they published a few books detailing their aspirations, a bit like Project 2025. There are even public videos where they express their disdain for competition and democracy. A few prominent individuals in this cabal are publicly known. Mr. Lawn Mower here is at the forefront of it and it also includes the owners of many AI and surveillance companies. And they're all actively associated with extreme right wing governments. Look at the known uses of AI by governments these days. Targeting of immigrants in Minnesota and selection of targets in Gaza and Iran to blow up. And look at the companies contributing to them. Some of the usual suspects are all present and contributing models, data centers and intel inputs. Is it possible that some of the richest people are collaborating to subdue the rest of the population for their benefit? Does this sound like a conspiracy theory to you? Good! This sounds too fantastic and alarmist even to me. Skepticism is warranted. But the evidences are not mere speculations or leaps of faith. Many are well known facts reported by mainstream media. Besides, this isn't the first time that the greedy and egomaniacal individuals have banded together to consolidate wealth. You already know what they mean when they talk about 'absolute free speech', 'free market capitalism', etc. You've also seen their birth defect of missing empathy in action. And it doesn't help that many of them have an unhealthy obsession with apocalyptic prophecies of several religions (meanwhile, they never seem to notice the nice parts - ever). So a nightmare scenario isn't entirely inconceivable. Why hasn't the AI bubble burst yet? Why do high profile men engage in cringy public bromance, followed by a messy divorce and then get back together again discretely? What are all their Mein Kampf style fantasy books and outrageous opinions about? Why did doge vacuum up highly sensitive demographic data that seems irrelevant to them? What's with all those shady and convoluted business deals and money transactions that look as if they're scheming a coup? And why the hell are all of them so obsessed with building fortified bunkers under their backyards? Forget all that. Trump publicly announced yesterday that the military is building a 'massive complex' under that gaudy monstrosity that he calls the ballroom. Apparently, that hideous structure is only a lid for what's underneath. But I wasn't surprised a bit! The reason? A very smart lady had argued the exact same assertion two months ago! She took the details of the 'private donors' of the ballroom, the construction partners and their spending and purchase manifests, to convincingly argue that they're building a massive AI datacenter underground for the military. The costs were too high for the ballroom and many purchases were unconventional, to say the least. She said the exact same thing back then - that the ballroom is just a lid for an underground facility! I mean, if you are a military with a lethal strategic AI, you certainly wouldn't expose it like a traditional datacenter. I feel like I'm paranoid just saying all these. But the world we live in today was unthinkable more than a decade ago. I don't want to spread confusion and paranoia. But it's also getting too late to ignore the developments. Just keep an eye for what's happening in this area. It's safer to be an unpopular prepper in this political climate, than be caught by surprise if it comes down to that.
belter 6mo ago
[dead]
nimbius 6mo ago
Blame it on whatever you like. oracle has been a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. - overpricing the database led to a predictable exodus and new players with often times better performance. - acquisition of MySQL led to a predictable exodus and new players like maria with often times better performance. - Oracle cloud arrived late to spectacular skepticism and low user turnout from customers who had been burned by high cost and users burned from decisions like the death of opensolaris. it exists on federal life support these days by the grace of the prevailing administration. - more than 80 products, with hundreds of thousands of patches and updates, yet no coherent or meaningful reform of the build for more than forty years. DB 19c still ships broken for redhat 9 as a means of driving users to oracle linux, and patching the installer is a 1970s experience in itself. DB 23's greatest improvement has been to tack the letters "AI" onto it to chum what shallow AI waters Oracle deigns to tread outside of an investment portfolio. - dumping cash into oracle enterprise linux despite it only having around 2500 active corporate users. this is nearly 20% of the company being laid off.
- Breza 5mo ago
  Well said. There are so many better companies out there. It reminds me of Microstrategy before their Bitcoin madness started... why would anyone use it?
- NitpickLawyer 6mo ago
  > a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. Yeah, from small interactions over the past two decades, I have no idea how they could have been so bad while employing so many people. What on earth were those 30k people doing?! Their solutions were crap for ages.
  - colechristensen 6mo ago
    >I have no idea how they could have been so bad while employing so many people There is a significant correlation between how many people you employ and how much nothing you accomplish. It means you've gotten big enough to survive long bouts of doing something and achieving nothing with large amounts of people.
guywithahat 6mo ago
I don't understand this sentiment. I'm absolutely significantly more productive with AI; so much moreso that I now have freetime and we haven't needed to replace an engineer who left. On the flip side my coworkers who think they're above AI are drowning. I think there is an endemic problem of senior engineers who think they're above learning AI and agents who don't want to use them, and these cuts are about forcing them to get with the times or drown in work. Replacing jobs is a bit of a misnomer, but it's certainly allowing us to build out more features in shorter amounts of time.
- lljk_kennedy 6mo ago
  Are you paid significantly more for your newfound productivity?
  - chasd00 6mo ago
    he mentions being paid more in terms of time, "I now have freetime". I can relate, in the right use cases it is nice to do some work estimated for 12 hrs in 2.
mcmcmc 6mo ago
Is it AI or is it Larry subsidizing his dipshit son’s media exec fantasy/throwing money at Trump’s patronage system?
random__duck 6mo ago
How to tell you we are running out of money because of AI without spooking the investors ?
superfrank 6mo ago
I think you're mostly right. This round of layoffs was telegraphed at a month or so ago. It's all related to banks getting spooked and pulling funding for their massive data center project and the OpenAI deal being on the rocks. So, I don't think it's really about their product being good enough, it's more that they've bet the company on data centers and it's starting to look like they just don't have the skills to execute on it.
xyst 6mo ago
This isn’t ai, this is the Ellison family gambling on their awful multibillion dollar deal to acquire Warner.

by dafelst 6mo ago

More victims of AI. Not actually of "AI is replacing jobs", more "oh shit we are spending too much and the product isn't good enough for us to ever make a return on our absurd over-investment".

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

consp 6mo ago

"Oracle leadership" sounds like nobody wants to take responsibility but they do like the share price to go up so say good bye to [auto generated name in header]'s job.

progbits 6mo ago
Stock barely moved after this news. Would be surprised if it isn't below 100 by H2.

muskstinks 6mo ago

I don't think its that easy. Look at their employee numbers over the years: (ai generated): Oracle Corporation Employee Count (2010 - 2025) Legend: Each '' represents approximately 4,000 employees. Year | Employees ------------------------------------------------------------------ 2010 | (105,000) 2011 | (108,000) 2012 | (115,000) 2013 | (120,000) 2014 | (122,000) 2015 | (132,000) 2016 | (136,000) 2017 | (138,000) 2018 | (137,000) 2019 | (136,000) 2020 | (135,000) 2021 | (132,000) 2022 | (143,000) 2023 | (164,000) 2024 | (159,000) 2025 | (162,000) Note: Oracle's fiscal reporting for the full year 2025 ended on May 31, 2025. They clearly did something crazy at corona and undoing this as a lot of companies did before already.

jimbokun 6mo ago
So they are returning to 2015 headcount. (EDIT: or 2021)
perching_aix 6mo ago
But the up curve at the end very clearly tracks with AI adoption and not Corona?
Foobar8568 6mo ago
More employees to release less stuff.... Smell like consultancy.
gedy 6mo ago
Their profit doubled from 2010 to 2025 though, no?
CoolGuySteve 6mo ago
Even at 100k employees I’m still dumbfounded by that number. What do all these people do all day?
- ra_men 6mo ago
  I’m guessing development is so slow that they have stacks of teams working in parallel to accomplish what 1 team could normally.
- Simboo 6mo ago
  Me too. Anyone here to enlighten us?
- drowntoge 6mo ago
  Well, whatever Oracle is doing, which brings us back to a question very similar to your original one.
- stackskipton 6mo ago
  Oracle sells alot of software that is accompanied by hordes of consultants to set it up. Last F50 I was at did a PeopleSoft migration. We probably had 400 Oracle employees pass through the doors over 2 years helping to get it off the ground. Most Enterprises don't just buy software and that's it. They buy software + support to implement it for their business.
  - CoolGuySteve 6mo ago
    Sure but what did those guys do all day? 400 people is a lot of people
    - davidw 6mo ago
      "Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!"
    - 6mo ago
hyperpape 6mo ago
If I do my python right, from 2010-2020 they grew by 2.5% annually, from 2020 to 2025, they grew headcount by 3.7% annually. After the layoffs, they'll apparently now have grown by 1.0% annually since 2020. So yes, from 2021 to 2023, they had a huge spike, but overall, it's a net slowdown in growth relative to the 2010-2020 period. If this was about reversion to the old pattern they'd have done a smaller set of layoffs or simply wait for a few years of zero growth.
- _aavaa_ 6mo ago
  You did the Python right but the analysis wrong. Looking at it on a graph you can see that interpreting a single growth rate for the entire period (even if you stop pre-covid) doesn’t make sense. You can see linear growth from 2010-2017. Then slow decline or at best a flatline from 2018-2021. Then they went crazy in 2022-2025. Now if we just do 162k - 30k we are back to 132k, basically same ballpark as pre-COVID.
  - franktankbank 6mo ago
    That's not how stocks are measured on wall street. They picked the dumb metric.
- throwaway5465 6mo ago
  Or a pickup from 2015 - 2021 which was 0% growth. It's tricky to pick an end-of-decade year also - recessions tend to happen +/- 2 years of the end of each decade in the USA, or at least have done since records began in the 19th century. For example 2010 was recovery over 2008/2009's bust. It's not like comparing March to Ma4ch for a crude seasonal adjustment.
RobRivera 6mo ago
You need to pair hc with revenue, otherwise this data tells only one story, hc growth.
sethev 6mo ago
> They clearly did something crazy at corona They acquired Cerner, which had ~30k employees.
- ge96 6mo ago
  Cool to be part of history I used to go into that office Innovations campus Saw someone had a license plate say MPAGES ha
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
dijksterhuis 6mo ago
> (ai generated) here's a link to an actual source for people who also don't trust ai generated stuff https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/number-of-employees https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/number... edit: this source also includes data/graphs on stock price and bunch of other metrics, rather than just one number over time.
- jonas21 6mo ago
  The graph in your Macrotrends link shows the exact same numbers as the AI source, but is harder to read and the page is half ads. It's not an authoritative source -- the data was most likely parsed out of Oracle's earning reports by some janky regexp. I don’t know why you would trust this more than AI.
  - dijksterhuis 6mo ago
    > harder to read and the page is half ads with an adblocker ... there is one ad on the page just above the graph about "Unlock Macrotrends Premium" which takes up 1.5/2cm of the page, while the graph underneath it takes up like 15cm. Then there's a bunch of other information on the page, none of which are ads. yes, there's a "you only get 5 page visits free" whole page pop-up thing, but there's an easy and well-known way round that for individuals who understand basic internet browser usage. maybe start using an ad-blocker? pretty much everyone else does these days. > the data was most likely parsed out of Oracle's earning reports by some janky regexp. which is probably what the ai would do... or more likely it's just stealing it from the source i linked, since the numbers are exactly the same... also, probably not because see (1b) below. > I don’t know why you would trust this more than AI. because (1a) > Fundamental data from Zacks Investment Research, Inc. > Built on Zacks Investment Research — trusted by institutional investors, academics, and financial professionals for over 45 years. [0] I'd take people who have been doing this stuff for 45 years over some new-fangled toy that's well known to hallucinate and get things wrong in ways that appear authoritative. also, on that (1b) > Zacks employs a rigorous quality control process to make sure all data points are recorded accurately. For each company, a trained analyst enters the data from SEC filings, which is then double checked by a senior analyst. Once the data is entered, a senior analyst signs off on final completion after reviewing all the data. In addition, the data is subjected to a battery of automated checks to verify balancing relationships and correct errors. All data items are reviewed by multiple sets of trained eyes as well as automated computer checks. [1] and (2) because that site provides other contextual information that is helpful, like the fact that Oracle's stock price has been trending downwards, which is possibly a reason why they felt the need to make cuts now. [2] ai gives you the answer you want -- not the answers you might actually need. [0]: https://zacksdata.com https://zacksdata.com [1]: https://zacksdata.com/static/docs/Zacks_Fundamental_Data_Overview.pdf https://zacksdata.com/static/docs/Zacks_Fundamental_Data_Ove... [2]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/stock-price-history https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ORCL/oracle/stock-... edit1: apparently you're not using an adblocker, wtf dude, it's 2026. use an adblocker. edit2: added (1b)
gib444 6mo ago
Where's the annual revenue for context? Those numbers are almost useless alone.
- muskstinks 6mo ago
  Feel free to add more info to this discussion. I only wanted to point out that number of jobs in context of the company growth. I found 160k already a huge/gigantic number though.
hbn 6mo ago
What's the point of posting statistics if they're not fact-checked and come from no verifiable source? At best they're right but we don't know until someone else fact-checked it for you, and at worst you're just spreading misinformation and we don't know until, again, someone else fact-checked it for you. If you want to use AI to find information like this, tell it to grab you a source and post that.
lenerdenator 6mo ago
The "Something crazy at corona" would likely be, in part, their purchase of Cerner Corporation in 2021-2022. I want to say there were 10k-ish employees? Maybe more? I have friends there who have described how bare-bones things were. This is only going to make it worse. I would not patronize a hospital system that intended on staying on Cerner Millennium EMRs for the foreseeable future. If things were bad before, they'll only be worse now.
- bombcar 6mo ago
  From what I've heard Epic can be as bad, but at least they're dedicated to one product.
mandevil 6mo ago
In June 2022 the Oracle acquisition of Cerner (a EMR now billed as Oracle Health) closed, so that would be after the 2022 date and before the 2023 date. Cerner was 28,000 employees. If they do cut back to their size before the acquisition, while continuing to try and support the EMR, they will be doing a lot more with fewer employees. The acquisition has already had a lot of bad consequences: https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-cerner-health-larry-ellison-28-billion-deadly-gamble-veterans-2024-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-cerner-health-larry-e...

renewiltord 6mo ago

One of the ideal things that companies can do is not hire people. A company that never hires someone will never let anyone go and consequently is the only ethical company. The worst thing that a company could do is pay someone to do a job for a while. In fact, one thing we could do is make sure that all jobs should be perpetual. If someone hires you, they can't stop paying you until they die or declare bankruptcy. This is sure to be good for workers.

the_real_cher 6mo ago
Termination will take on a while different meaning of this turns out to come true on some Black Mirror future.
shepherdjerred 6mo ago
It’s not unethical to lay someone off
- whamlastxmas 6mo ago
  When done for profit maximizing reasons it's not any worse than capitalism itself, but then this degrades into whether capitalism is ethical which is off topic
  - WalterBright 6mo ago
    Profit maximization makes for the high standard of living we enjoy.
    - wiseowise 6mo ago
      The one where one trip to ER can leave you on the street and students have six digit debts?
      - WalterBright 6mo ago
        Ironically, you picked two systems that are heavily interfered with by the government. Back in the Great Depression, my great grandmother got sick and was hospitalized, and they took care of her until she passed. My grandfather did not have enough to pay the bill. The hospital told him not to worry, just pay what he could. It took him a while, but he paid the bill in full.

alephnerd 6mo ago

> More victims of AI According to the article as well as blind, the main teams hit were associated with Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP). Oracle's AI spend is part of Oracle Cloud. That said, I guess it can be argued that Cerner and NetSuite being on the chopping block can be attributed to AI because now procurement has the choice to either build in-house via an Anthropic or OpenAI SI like Accenture or TCS or they can negotiate better purchasing terms from a best-in-breed product in HRM and ERP like SAP instead. I also find it interesting how American and European HNers are much more negative about AI compared to their Chinese, Indian, and Israeli peers even though they have a significant amount to lose as well.

SlinkyOnStairs 6mo ago
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- alephnerd 6mo ago
  That isn't though. Both Cerner (EHR) and NetSuite (ERP) were laggards in their market segments for years. If I'm the Director of Enterprise Applications and have a budget allocated to procurement, I have no reason to purchase a laggard product like Cerner or NetSuite even with the Oracle bundle when SAP is giving significant discounts because OpenAI, Anthropic, and GCP are offering partnerships with systems integrations like Accenture or Deloitte to fully build out and manage your own hyperspecific ERP or EHR. There's no reason to keep investing in products in a market that was already past it's growth stage pre-AI with a clear market winner, especially now that there is downstream pressure that makes build much more attractive than buying an inferior product. Based on your response, I doubt you even cared to read my entire post. Edit: can't reply > I didn't read it because it didn't exist yet, you added it in an edit It did when I posted. The only edit I made after you posted was fixing HRM to EHR. > You're not even disagreeing with my response, merely elaborating the mechanism behind it. This is bad faith posting. I strongly disagree. My entire thesis is that Cerner and NetSuite were bad businesses. If a business is bad you kill the business. No need to gaslight me and delete your response.
  - 6mo ago

cyanydeez 6mo ago

[flagged]

gustavus 6mo ago
> this whole fascist, AI, far right nationalist takeover Well that's a new take I haven't heard before. That the AI is actually a far right nationalist takeover.... That's an interesting perspective.
- goku12 6mo ago
  Are you not aware of the techno-authoritarian ambitions of the silicon valley tech bros? It isn't much of a secret these days, after they published a few books detailing their aspirations, a bit like Project 2025. There are even public videos where they express their disdain for competition and democracy. A few prominent individuals in this cabal are publicly known. Mr. Lawn Mower here is at the forefront of it and it also includes the owners of many AI and surveillance companies. And they're all actively associated with extreme right wing governments. Look at the known uses of AI by governments these days. Targeting of immigrants in Minnesota and selection of targets in Gaza and Iran to blow up. And look at the companies contributing to them. Some of the usual suspects are all present and contributing models, data centers and intel inputs. Is it possible that some of the richest people are collaborating to subdue the rest of the population for their benefit? Does this sound like a conspiracy theory to you? Good! This sounds too fantastic and alarmist even to me. Skepticism is warranted. But the evidences are not mere speculations or leaps of faith. Many are well known facts reported by mainstream media. Besides, this isn't the first time that the greedy and egomaniacal individuals have banded together to consolidate wealth. You already know what they mean when they talk about 'absolute free speech', 'free market capitalism', etc. You've also seen their birth defect of missing empathy in action. And it doesn't help that many of them have an unhealthy obsession with apocalyptic prophecies of several religions (meanwhile, they never seem to notice the nice parts - ever). So a nightmare scenario isn't entirely inconceivable. Why hasn't the AI bubble burst yet? Why do high profile men engage in cringy public bromance, followed by a messy divorce and then get back together again discretely? What are all their Mein Kampf style fantasy books and outrageous opinions about? Why did doge vacuum up highly sensitive demographic data that seems irrelevant to them? What's with all those shady and convoluted business deals and money transactions that look as if they're scheming a coup? And why the hell are all of them so obsessed with building fortified bunkers under their backyards? Forget all that. Trump publicly announced yesterday that the military is building a 'massive complex' under that gaudy monstrosity that he calls the ballroom. Apparently, that hideous structure is only a lid for what's underneath. But I wasn't surprised a bit! The reason? A very smart lady had argued the exact same assertion two months ago! She took the details of the 'private donors' of the ballroom, the construction partners and their spending and purchase manifests, to convincingly argue that they're building a massive AI datacenter underground for the military. The costs were too high for the ballroom and many purchases were unconventional, to say the least. She said the exact same thing back then - that the ballroom is just a lid for an underground facility! I mean, if you are a military with a lethal strategic AI, you certainly wouldn't expose it like a traditional datacenter. I feel like I'm paranoid just saying all these. But the world we live in today was unthinkable more than a decade ago. I don't want to spread confusion and paranoia. But it's also getting too late to ignore the developments. Just keep an eye for what's happening in this area. It's safer to be an unpopular prepper in this political climate, than be caught by surprise if it comes down to that.

belter 6mo ago

[dead]

nimbius 6mo ago

Blame it on whatever you like. oracle has been a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. - overpricing the database led to a predictable exodus and new players with often times better performance. - acquisition of MySQL led to a predictable exodus and new players like maria with often times better performance. - Oracle cloud arrived late to spectacular skepticism and low user turnout from customers who had been burned by high cost and users burned from decisions like the death of opensolaris. it exists on federal life support these days by the grace of the prevailing administration. - more than 80 products, with hundreds of thousands of patches and updates, yet no coherent or meaningful reform of the build for more than forty years. DB 19c still ships broken for redhat 9 as a means of driving users to oracle linux, and patching the installer is a 1970s experience in itself. DB 23's greatest improvement has been to tack the letters "AI" onto it to chum what shallow AI waters Oracle deigns to tread outside of an investment portfolio. - dumping cash into oracle enterprise linux despite it only having around 2500 active corporate users. this is nearly 20% of the company being laid off.

Breza 5mo ago
Well said. There are so many better companies out there. It reminds me of Microstrategy before their Bitcoin madness started... why would anyone use it?
NitpickLawyer 6mo ago
> a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. Yeah, from small interactions over the past two decades, I have no idea how they could have been so bad while employing so many people. What on earth were those 30k people doing?! Their solutions were crap for ages.
- colechristensen 6mo ago
  >I have no idea how they could have been so bad while employing so many people There is a significant correlation between how many people you employ and how much nothing you accomplish. It means you've gotten big enough to survive long bouts of doing something and achieving nothing with large amounts of people.

guywithahat 6mo ago

I don't understand this sentiment. I'm absolutely significantly more productive with AI; so much moreso that I now have freetime and we haven't needed to replace an engineer who left. On the flip side my coworkers who think they're above AI are drowning. I think there is an endemic problem of senior engineers who think they're above learning AI and agents who don't want to use them, and these cuts are about forcing them to get with the times or drown in work. Replacing jobs is a bit of a misnomer, but it's certainly allowing us to build out more features in shorter amounts of time.

lljk_kennedy 6mo ago
Are you paid significantly more for your newfound productivity?
- chasd00 6mo ago
  he mentions being paid more in terms of time, "I now have freetime". I can relate, in the right use cases it is nice to do some work estimated for 12 hrs in 2.

mcmcmc 6mo ago

Is it AI or is it Larry subsidizing his dipshit son’s media exec fantasy/throwing money at Trump’s patronage system?

random__duck 6mo ago

How to tell you we are running out of money because of AI without spooking the investors ?

superfrank 6mo ago

I think you're mostly right. This round of layoffs was telegraphed at a month or so ago. It's all related to banks getting spooked and pulling funding for their massive data center project and the OpenAI deal being on the rocks. So, I don't think it's really about their product being good enough, it's more that they've bet the company on data centers and it's starting to look like they just don't have the skills to execute on it.

xyst 6mo ago

This isn’t ai, this is the Ellison family gambling on their awful multibillion dollar deal to acquire Warner.