7 ms·
Is it fair to say that they can just compete in the men's division?
by lewdev 6mo ago
Is it fair to say that they can just compete in the men's division?
- harveychess 6mo agoIt would not be fair, because the point of having divisions is allow women to compete in a competition that is not dominated by men.
- rolymath 6mo ago[flagged]
- watwut 6mo agoNo it is not. They vote for Trump simply because they are assholes. Considering his party plans for women as such, none of them cares about women, actually
- bpodgursky 6mo ago[flagged]
- trickyager 6mo agoI think you're falling for Sticker Swap Fallacy. The goal is to have fair match-ups in sports. Gender and sex are two possible labels to use to assist with this, but they're imperfect enough that we probably ought to not use them as the primary differentiator. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/C7LcpRtrHiKJRoAEp/sticker-shortcut-fallacy-the-real-worst-argument-in-the https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/C7LcpRtrHiKJRoAEp/sticker-sh...
- kelseyfrog 6mo agoThe solution is simple: class every sport like boxing. Pick a sports-relevant metric and split into divisions. Some sports will naturally fall into gendered divisions, while others will have varying degrees of co-ed competition among competitors of similar ability. The way out of this is not to pick a better scissor of sex or gender, it's to pick a better scissor of ability.
- 2muchcoffeeman 6mo agoDoesn’t Boxing use weight classes?
- lbreakjai 6mo agoWeight classes within gender classes. Women would have no chance to compete against men of identical weight, all else equal. Men have more lean mass.
- kelseyfrog 6mo agoSounds like lean mass would be the right way to structure divisions then.
- fourseventy 6mo agoMen are stronger, faster, have more dense bones, have bigger lungs, bigger hands, etc, etc, etc. Men and women are different in hundreds of ways it's not just 'lean body mass'. Men are better at sports than women. Do you even live in reality? Have you ever completed in anything in your life?
- kelseyfrog 6mo agoThen create those divisions. Please be rational.
- baumy 6mo agoGood lord. Absolutely nobody is going to watch boxing divisions based on lung size and bone density. Did you actually think that lean mass would be a sensible way to separate divisions in a gender neutral fashion? That would, again, just result in women being unable to compete professionally in virtually any sport. They would be relegated to Division N, for some very large value of N. Competing alongside multitudes of biologically male amateurs, where nobody cares and nobody pays to watch. To even entertain this idea betrays a total lack of understanding of the matter at hand. Right now you are acting like Elon Musk storming into the government and having 20 year olds cut everybody's budget. You may think you're coming in with fresh outsider perspective and an open minded way to look at things and improve them, but everyone actually involved in the domain can see a trainwreck in progress. It's not a good look. I am quite certain it's not your intention, but you're really coming across as someone who hates women's sports, and doesn't want them to exist. On behalf of my wife and sister and a lot of the women I've known in a lifetime of playing sports - kindly keep your awful ideas to yourself. Women fought tooth and nail for the right to have their own professional sporting opportunities. Don't you dare try to take it away from them.
- RajT88 6mo ago> It would not be fair, because the point of having divisions is allow women to compete in a competition that is not dominated by men. Really, what it is is being dominated by Testosterone. Also why we ban steroid use, and many other things along the same lines. I would suggest that most Olympians - both female and male (whatever your definition) likely have a higher than normal amount of that hormone.
- BobaFloutist 6mo agoMaybe we just make 100% of Olympic Athletes take E to balance things out.
- tdb7893 6mo agoFrom a biological perspective, the women being banned here are not just men and as far as I'm aware cannot realistically compete in the men's division any more than any other woman. Practically these changes bar women athletes with certain medical differences from competing in the Olympics. I'm not an expert so idk whether that's fair or not but that's what this decision is doing.
- frumplestlatz 6mo ago[flagged]
- tdb7893 6mo agoLike most things in biologicy, categorization is a nightmare unless you have a very specific use case in mind. In this case I'm talking about women phenotypically and socially (including self-identity) and especially athletes assigned female at birth. These women are clearly not just "males".
- frumplestlatz 6mo agoAs far as I understand the ontology of human phenotype, it is unchanged by use of cross-sex hormone therapy.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- turtlesdown11 6mo ago[flagged]
- yostrovs 6mo ago[flagged]
- mikkupikku 6mo agoWe can fix this, we have the technology. A pair of spring boots should do the trick.
- Dma54rhs 6mo agoFor most of the sports there is no men's division - it's open for everyone.