8 ms·

The way trademarks work is that if you don't actively defend them you weaken your rights. So Anthropic needs to defend their ownership of "Claude". I'm guessing

by putlake 8mo ago

The way trademarks work is that if you don't actively defend them you weaken your rights. So Anthropic needs to defend their ownership of "Claude". I'm guessing they reached out to Peter Steinberger and asked nicely that he rename Clawdbot.

mattmaroon 8mo ago
Last year in my area, a food truck decided to call itself Leggo My Egg Roll, and obvious play on Eggo waffles tagline. Kellogg sent them a cease and desist, they decided to ignore it. Kellogg then offered to pay them to rebrand, they still wouldn’t. They then sued for $15 million.
- esafak 8mo ago
  Funny. I was expecting LEGO not Kellogg.
- clarkmoody 8mo ago
  ...and then what happened?
  - Barbing 8mo ago
    Good question https://local12.com/news/nation-world/kellogg-leggo-my-eggroll-says-it-had-no-other-choice-but-to-file-lawsuit-against-an-ohio-food-truck-cincinnati-consumer-court-cases-copyright-tagline-slogan-marketing-federal-northern-district-trademark-infringement-offer-request-threats-demands-material https://local12.com/news/nation-world/kellogg-leggo-my-eggro...
    - z2 8mo ago
      Could they have gotten around this by actually serving Eggo waffles? Would that have then fallen under nominative fair use?
      - mattmaroon 8mo ago
        I doubt it, no. I couldn’t go buy Taco Bell sauce at the store, serve it at my restaurant, and call my restaurant Taco Bell. They could probably mention it on their menu.
        fc417fc802 8mo ago
        I'm guessing (NAL) that would actually make it worse. Trademark violation revolves around brand confusion. If you actually serve their product you are making that _much_ more likely (in my uninformed opinion anyway). Otherwise it's a standalone argument about a stupid pun applied to food in general.
  - razingeden 8mo ago
    it’s in the discovery process with a deadline of February 23rd, at which time kellogg’s is to prepare their argument and motion for summary judgement. If that’s denied it tentatively goes to 3-4 day trial in July. Court listener: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70447787/kellogg-north-america-company-llc-v-leggo-my-eggroll-ohio-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70447787/kellogg-north-... Pacer (requires account, but most recent doc summarized ) https://ecf.ohnd.uscourts.gov/doc1/141014086025?caseid=317820 https://ecf.ohnd.uscourts.gov/doc1/141014086025?caseid=31782...
    - mattmaroon 8mo ago
      I never saw them again (and I host large food truck festivals here) so I just assumed they threw in the towel. I did not know they are still operating but apparently so. I have to imagine they’ll spend more time and money fighting this suit than they did starting the food truck. I see no reason you wouldn’t just rebrand. The name is mid at best anyway. But also, I’m kinda rooting for them. From a distance though.
- ikidd 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - bpodgursky 8mo ago
    > The way trademarks work is that if you don't actively defend them you weaken your rights. I mean this is the OP sentence, it's not about the food truck, it's about setting a precedent that you don't care, which costs you later when a competing brand starts distributing in a way that can actually confuse consumers.
    - ameliaquining 8mo ago
      Has any court ever ruled that a trademark was abandoned, merely on the grounds that its owners didn't try to prosecute a borderline infringement case?
      - dghlsakjg 8mo ago
        This is a dilution not abandonment issue. Courts will look at the level of systematic tolerance. If you have a history of vigorous enforcement, it will be harder to argue in the future that a borderline dilution should be allowed. If you allow borderline dilution, the court is going to consider what you have let other people get away with in the past. It’s a bit of a catch 22
        ameliaquining 8mo ago
        I would still be interested in a real case where a trademark owner ignored a borderline case and this later resulted in an adverse ruling when a more concrete interest was at stake.
        dghlsakjg 8mo ago
        Amstar Corp. v. Domino’s Pizza, Inc., 615 F.2d 252 (5th Cir. 1980) The record showed a history of extensive third‑party “Domino” uses (including other food and grocery products). That crowded field made Amstar’s DOMINO relatively weak outside sugar, and Domino’s Pizza prevailed. Link: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/615/252/415474/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/615...
- jakereps 8mo ago
  My old local brewery had a Leggo My Ego[1] beer they also were served a cease and desist by Kellogg over... they still make it, it's just now called the Unlawful Waffle[2] which is a bit funnier if you happen to know the lore/reason. 1. https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-leggo-my-ego/1713609 https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-leggo-my... 2. https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-unlawful-waffle/5039606 https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-unlawful...
  - stogot 8mo ago
    Funny story but the taste scores don’t look to great. Do you like it?
    - jakereps 8mo ago
      It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style. It’s my friends favorite rotator but I think it’s a decent try-it-once beer, that is only around for a little while at a time. The brewery itself though is one of my favorites to this day with, in my opinion, the best food I've ever encountered at something that identifies itself first as a "brewery." I don't visit the area without making a stop there.
      - worik 8mo ago
        > It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style Yes. I live in a community that has a very high population of home brewers (beer and spirits mostly). Many of them are needy and use strict techniques (their breweries remind me of the Winnebago meth lab in Breaking Bad) making very good beer and gin. When we have our local competition of brewers the winner is always some thing like "Belgian Sour". To me a beer that is foul. But to the experienced brewers it is the best. "Likes that style" covers a huge range with beer.
kaycey2022 8mo ago
Of course Anthropic has the most obnoxious legal team of all the ai companies. The project got traction under the older name. A name change does hurt the project.
- theshrike79 8mo ago
  It's not about obnoxiousness or morality. They HAVE to defend their trademark or they'll lose it by default. The law pretty much goes "if you don't care about it, you don't need it anymore".
- bluedel 8mo ago
  I don't think it's obnoxious to protect your trademark against a literal homophone operating in the same space as you. I'm confident a lot of people heard about "clawdbot" and assumed it was an anthropic product.
OrangeMusic 8mo ago
Honestly the decision to name it Clawd was so obviously spectacularly stupid and immature that it makes me wonder about the whole project? I won't try it.

by putlake 8mo ago

mattmaroon 8mo ago

Last year in my area, a food truck decided to call itself Leggo My Egg Roll, and obvious play on Eggo waffles tagline. Kellogg sent them a cease and desist, they decided to ignore it. Kellogg then offered to pay them to rebrand, they still wouldn’t. They then sued for $15 million.

esafak 8mo ago
Funny. I was expecting LEGO not Kellogg.
clarkmoody 8mo ago
...and then what happened?
- Barbing 8mo ago
  Good question https://local12.com/news/nation-world/kellogg-leggo-my-eggroll-says-it-had-no-other-choice-but-to-file-lawsuit-against-an-ohio-food-truck-cincinnati-consumer-court-cases-copyright-tagline-slogan-marketing-federal-northern-district-trademark-infringement-offer-request-threats-demands-material https://local12.com/news/nation-world/kellogg-leggo-my-eggro...
  - z2 8mo ago
    Could they have gotten around this by actually serving Eggo waffles? Would that have then fallen under nominative fair use?
    - mattmaroon 8mo ago
      I doubt it, no. I couldn’t go buy Taco Bell sauce at the store, serve it at my restaurant, and call my restaurant Taco Bell. They could probably mention it on their menu.
      - fc417fc802 8mo ago
        I'm guessing (NAL) that would actually make it worse. Trademark violation revolves around brand confusion. If you actually serve their product you are making that _much_ more likely (in my uninformed opinion anyway). Otherwise it's a standalone argument about a stupid pun applied to food in general.
- razingeden 8mo ago
  it’s in the discovery process with a deadline of February 23rd, at which time kellogg’s is to prepare their argument and motion for summary judgement. If that’s denied it tentatively goes to 3-4 day trial in July. Court listener: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70447787/kellogg-north-america-company-llc-v-leggo-my-eggroll-ohio-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70447787/kellogg-north-... Pacer (requires account, but most recent doc summarized ) https://ecf.ohnd.uscourts.gov/doc1/141014086025?caseid=317820 https://ecf.ohnd.uscourts.gov/doc1/141014086025?caseid=31782...
  - mattmaroon 8mo ago
    I never saw them again (and I host large food truck festivals here) so I just assumed they threw in the towel. I did not know they are still operating but apparently so. I have to imagine they’ll spend more time and money fighting this suit than they did starting the food truck. I see no reason you wouldn’t just rebrand. The name is mid at best anyway. But also, I’m kinda rooting for them. From a distance though.
ikidd 8mo ago
[flagged]
- bpodgursky 8mo ago
  > The way trademarks work is that if you don't actively defend them you weaken your rights. I mean this is the OP sentence, it's not about the food truck, it's about setting a precedent that you don't care, which costs you later when a competing brand starts distributing in a way that can actually confuse consumers.
  - ameliaquining 8mo ago
    Has any court ever ruled that a trademark was abandoned, merely on the grounds that its owners didn't try to prosecute a borderline infringement case?
    - dghlsakjg 8mo ago
      This is a dilution not abandonment issue. Courts will look at the level of systematic tolerance. If you have a history of vigorous enforcement, it will be harder to argue in the future that a borderline dilution should be allowed. If you allow borderline dilution, the court is going to consider what you have let other people get away with in the past. It’s a bit of a catch 22
      - ameliaquining 8mo ago
        I would still be interested in a real case where a trademark owner ignored a borderline case and this later resulted in an adverse ruling when a more concrete interest was at stake.
        dghlsakjg 8mo ago
        Amstar Corp. v. Domino’s Pizza, Inc., 615 F.2d 252 (5th Cir. 1980) The record showed a history of extensive third‑party “Domino” uses (including other food and grocery products). That crowded field made Amstar’s DOMINO relatively weak outside sugar, and Domino’s Pizza prevailed. Link: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/615/252/415474/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/615...
jakereps 8mo ago
My old local brewery had a Leggo My Ego[1] beer they also were served a cease and desist by Kellogg over... they still make it, it's just now called the Unlawful Waffle[2] which is a bit funnier if you happen to know the lore/reason. 1. https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-leggo-my-ego/1713609 https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-leggo-my... 2. https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-unlawful-waffle/5039606 https://untappd.com/b/arizona-wilderness-brewing-co-unlawful...
- stogot 8mo ago
  Funny story but the taste scores don’t look to great. Do you like it?
  - jakereps 8mo ago
    It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style. It’s my friends favorite rotator but I think it’s a decent try-it-once beer, that is only around for a little while at a time. The brewery itself though is one of my favorites to this day with, in my opinion, the best food I've ever encountered at something that identifies itself first as a "brewery." I don't visit the area without making a stop there.
    - worik 8mo ago
      > It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style Yes. I live in a community that has a very high population of home brewers (beer and spirits mostly). Many of them are needy and use strict techniques (their breweries remind me of the Winnebago meth lab in Breaking Bad) making very good beer and gin. When we have our local competition of brewers the winner is always some thing like "Belgian Sour". To me a beer that is foul. But to the experienced brewers it is the best. "Likes that style" covers a huge range with beer.

kaycey2022 8mo ago

Of course Anthropic has the most obnoxious legal team of all the ai companies. The project got traction under the older name. A name change does hurt the project.

theshrike79 8mo ago
It's not about obnoxiousness or morality. They HAVE to defend their trademark or they'll lose it by default. The law pretty much goes "if you don't care about it, you don't need it anymore".
bluedel 8mo ago
I don't think it's obnoxious to protect your trademark against a literal homophone operating in the same space as you. I'm confident a lot of people heard about "clawdbot" and assumed it was an anthropic product.

OrangeMusic 8mo ago

Honestly the decision to name it Clawd was so obviously spectacularly stupid and immature that it makes me wonder about the whole project? I won't try it.