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Meanwhile, the only thing people really want from Rivian is CarPlay / Android Auto support, lol.

airstrike 9mo ago
Not investors, though
cyode 9mo ago
CarPlay and affordability. I was totally smitten last year with the R1S during a test drive. I'm not a car person but felt that spark people must feel when they obsess over their vehicles. But it wasn't pushing-six-figures smitten, which is where you're at when you get a new one with customizations.
- nicksergeant 9mo ago
  Yep. I certainly wanted an R1S, but ended up in an EV9 due to CarPlay plus huge lease incentives. No regrets, and will probably get another after this lease is up.
- ActorNightly 9mo ago
  >afforadbility This 1000%. Electric cars are supposed to be simple. Give me something in a shape of a Civic, with the engine replaced with a motor and a battery good for 150 miles, and sell it for $10-12k new. Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. Instead, we are getting these boutique, expensive vehicles packed full of tech, but in the end, they still fundamentally suck as cars compared to gas alternatives, especially hybrid. I got a Prius Prime for my wife last year, the car is way better than any EV on the market in terms of usability. Driving to work and back can all be done in EV mode easily, and then when you wanna go somewhere, you can keep the car above 80 mph easily and get there faster without worrying about where to charge.
  - reanimus 9mo ago
    > Electric cars are supposed to be simple. Give me something in a shape of a Civic, with the engine replaced with a motor and a battery good for 150 miles, and sell it for $10-12k new. Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. I think this is more or less the pitch behind Slate (https://www.slate.auto/en https://www.slate.auto/en), though it's more of a truck/SUV form factor.
    - avel 9mo ago
      Also the Dacia Spring is exactly that.
    - ActorNightly 9mo ago
      Slate is nowhere near cheap. Base 27k with hand crank windows? No thanks.
  - dzhiurgis 9mo ago
    > Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. Illegal - backup camera is required. Speakers probably too for alerts. Also you are super naive if you think that's where actual cost is.
    - ActorNightly 9mo ago
      Most of the cost is in development and prototyping that the company has to make up for, followed by battery as those have a set $/kwh price. This is why the rest of the car has to be an already proven platform that is cheap to make.
  - fragmede 9mo ago
    Unfortunately federal standards now require the backup camera, so the entertainment cluster comes along basically for free from that.
    - simondotau 9mo ago
      The cost of the entertainment cluster comes from the integration work. If it was just a backup camera and a carplay/aa head unit and absolutely nothing else then maybe it could be OEMed from the same companies who sell aftermarket systems for $100 or so.
  - simondotau 9mo ago
    > Electric cars are supposed to be simple. The only part an EV doesn't have is the engine and gearbox. Admittedly, these are pretty major components, but it's a technology mature enough to be extremely reliable if the manufacturer cares to make it so. But what an EV has instead is a massive battery, charging electronics, a DC-DC converter keeping the 12V battery charged, and various electric motors and actuators for the air conditioning and coolant loops. These are significant more reliable than oily engines in lab environments, but the automotive environment tests the mettle of seemingly resilient components.
  - ethagnawl 9mo ago
    This sounds a lot like some of the BYD offerings which, regrettably, aren't available in USA.
  - Rover222 9mo ago
    Sounds like you want a Nissan Leaf? They exist.
    - ActorNightly 9mo ago
      Nissan Leaf is the same price as a Camry. Its not cheap.
  - dalyons 9mo ago
    > still fundamentally suck as cars compared to gas alternatives i can assure you my expensive EV does not suck as a car compared to gas alternatives, its better in almost every way. insane performance compared to any gas car, superb handling, way better driving UX tech, silent, clean. & 400mil range is just fine for me thanks. Yes it cost a lot.
  - vrinsd 9mo ago
    This.
azinman2 9mo ago
I want the smaller size and cost of the R2
legitster 9mo ago
I get where carmakers are coming from though. Cars used to compete on distinctions between driving experience/fuel economy/reliability/etc. In comparison, differences between electric cars is mostly superfluous. They're very interchangeable. For the next generation of car buyers, infotainment and features are going to be the main features. And if you are handing all of that away to the tech companies, your entire company is going to just become another captive hardware partner of the tech giants.
- nicksergeant 9mo ago
  I don't know. I would argue that driving experience and reliability are still very much going to be things in the electric car market. I'm an EV9 owner and we have issues w/ the suspension making it feel sloppy over some bumps. There's going to be a ton of nuance in terms of how all of these different electric vehicles drive, ride, and are experienced. And those are all going to come down to the vehicle manufacturers themselves, not just the technology partner for screens.
- beanjuice 9mo ago
  ... So the answer is to make a series of worse products?
  - legitster 9mo ago
    I dunno - some of the manufacturers have legitimately good UIs now.
- jayd16 9mo ago
  If they actually planned to compete on it they could just offer Carplay support as an option, no?
- nightski 9mo ago
  Oh wow it doesn't have Carplay/Android Auto? Yes they definitely differentiated themselves, into me not wanting one anymore...
wilg 9mo ago
What, no. I'd buy a Rivian R2 right now to replace my Model Y if it 1) existed and 2) matched FSD features.
- dawnerd 9mo ago
  I'm in the same boat. My Model Y has to last until the R2 with lidar comes out. Hopefully it'll have some value left in it.
hansonkd 9mo ago
It's maddening that $100k purchases get totally nerfed by bad software. Absolutely crazy to me that I can go out find a super nice car I want and have to walk away because of bad software or no carplay support.
Hovertruck 9mo ago
I hear this a lot and it's surprising to me. We have three cars in our family (two with carplay and the Rivian) and carplay always feels like such a downgraded experience compared to that of the Rivian.
- doctoboggan 9mo ago
  I have a plex server and use Prologue for audio books. What would my experience on Rivian be like? I am guessing I would have to connect to the infotainment system as a bluetooth speaker? Would I be able to easily skip forward/backward and see the current chapter? I've been using car play for the better part of the past decade and don't know what it looks like in vehicles without it.
  - Zee2 9mo ago
    I think the revenue source times number of people using Plex for audiobooks as a total market value for Rivian is approximately zero.
    - doctoboggan 9mo ago
      It’s not just plex, it’s the long tail of iPhone apps that work with CarPlay but don’t with rivian. It’s the reason I always seek out CarPlay and why Tesla has reportedly decided it’s worth adding CarPlay to capture people like me.
    - Mashimo 9mo ago
      What if you listen to audio books with a 3rd party app that you really like, but it's not on rivian? I would expect you can still skip forward and back, and read titles. So as long as you start before you drive you might be gucci?
  - Mashimo 9mo ago
    I don't know about Rivian, but last time I used bluetooth in a car you could see current title, play/pause and skip forward and back. But that is all, no playlists control.
octorian 9mo ago
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'll take a car infotainment system that doesn't need CarPlay/AndroidAuto to be usable (and lacks it) over one that requires a phone attached via CarPlay/AndroidAuto to be usable. I use Android Auto on rental cars all the time. My daily driver is a Tesla (Model S /w MCU v2) that doesn't have it. And doesn't need it to provide a usable experience.
- simondotau 9mo ago
  I've only rented Teslas but I can see how most people would consider CP/AA to be unnecessary given the quality of their integrated software. But for me, the two things Tesla can't do (and CP/AA can) is 1. Waze; 2. My preferred third-party podcasting app.
- neogodless 9mo ago
  If the software has the same library as your phone, then I could why you see it as on par. Android Automotive has a much smaller library than Android Auto, so the selection for audio apps, such as podcasts and music, are much more limited. The options for map software is smaller too. Also Android Automotive doesn't necessarily use your phone's existing internet connection. Depending on the maker, you have to subscribe to a separate data plan.
jinushaun 9mo ago
And real door handles. And real buttons. And better customer service. Who was this announcement for? I’m at a point where I think Rivian’s real customers are investors.

Not investors, though

cyode 9mo ago

CarPlay and affordability. I was totally smitten last year with the R1S during a test drive. I'm not a car person but felt that spark people must feel when they obsess over their vehicles. But it wasn't pushing-six-figures smitten, which is where you're at when you get a new one with customizations.

nicksergeant 9mo ago
Yep. I certainly wanted an R1S, but ended up in an EV9 due to CarPlay plus huge lease incentives. No regrets, and will probably get another after this lease is up.
ActorNightly 9mo ago
>afforadbility This 1000%. Electric cars are supposed to be simple. Give me something in a shape of a Civic, with the engine replaced with a motor and a battery good for 150 miles, and sell it for $10-12k new. Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. Instead, we are getting these boutique, expensive vehicles packed full of tech, but in the end, they still fundamentally suck as cars compared to gas alternatives, especially hybrid. I got a Prius Prime for my wife last year, the car is way better than any EV on the market in terms of usability. Driving to work and back can all be done in EV mode easily, and then when you wanna go somewhere, you can keep the car above 80 mph easily and get there faster without worrying about where to charge.
- reanimus 9mo ago
  > Electric cars are supposed to be simple. Give me something in a shape of a Civic, with the engine replaced with a motor and a battery good for 150 miles, and sell it for $10-12k new. Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. I think this is more or less the pitch behind Slate (https://www.slate.auto/en https://www.slate.auto/en), though it's more of a truck/SUV form factor.
  - avel 9mo ago
    Also the Dacia Spring is exactly that.
  - ActorNightly 9mo ago
    Slate is nowhere near cheap. Base 27k with hand crank windows? No thanks.
- dzhiurgis 9mo ago
  > Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. Illegal - backup camera is required. Speakers probably too for alerts. Also you are super naive if you think that's where actual cost is.
  - ActorNightly 9mo ago
    Most of the cost is in development and prototyping that the company has to make up for, followed by battery as those have a set $/kwh price. This is why the rest of the car has to be an already proven platform that is cheap to make.
- fragmede 9mo ago
  Unfortunately federal standards now require the backup camera, so the entertainment cluster comes along basically for free from that.
  - simondotau 9mo ago
    The cost of the entertainment cluster comes from the integration work. If it was just a backup camera and a carplay/aa head unit and absolutely nothing else then maybe it could be OEMed from the same companies who sell aftermarket systems for $100 or so.
- simondotau 9mo ago
  > Electric cars are supposed to be simple. The only part an EV doesn't have is the engine and gearbox. Admittedly, these are pretty major components, but it's a technology mature enough to be extremely reliable if the manufacturer cares to make it so. But what an EV has instead is a massive battery, charging electronics, a DC-DC converter keeping the 12V battery charged, and various electric motors and actuators for the air conditioning and coolant loops. These are significant more reliable than oily engines in lab environments, but the automotive environment tests the mettle of seemingly resilient components.
- ethagnawl 9mo ago
  This sounds a lot like some of the BYD offerings which, regrettably, aren't available in USA.
- Rover222 9mo ago
  Sounds like you want a Nissan Leaf? They exist.
  - ActorNightly 9mo ago
    Nissan Leaf is the same price as a Camry. Its not cheap.
- dalyons 9mo ago
  > still fundamentally suck as cars compared to gas alternatives i can assure you my expensive EV does not suck as a car compared to gas alternatives, its better in almost every way. insane performance compared to any gas car, superb handling, way better driving UX tech, silent, clean. & 400mil range is just fine for me thanks. Yes it cost a lot.
- vrinsd 9mo ago
  This.

azinman2 9mo ago

I want the smaller size and cost of the R2

legitster 9mo ago

I get where carmakers are coming from though. Cars used to compete on distinctions between driving experience/fuel economy/reliability/etc. In comparison, differences between electric cars is mostly superfluous. They're very interchangeable. For the next generation of car buyers, infotainment and features are going to be the main features. And if you are handing all of that away to the tech companies, your entire company is going to just become another captive hardware partner of the tech giants.

nicksergeant 9mo ago
I don't know. I would argue that driving experience and reliability are still very much going to be things in the electric car market. I'm an EV9 owner and we have issues w/ the suspension making it feel sloppy over some bumps. There's going to be a ton of nuance in terms of how all of these different electric vehicles drive, ride, and are experienced. And those are all going to come down to the vehicle manufacturers themselves, not just the technology partner for screens.
beanjuice 9mo ago
... So the answer is to make a series of worse products?
- legitster 9mo ago
  I dunno - some of the manufacturers have legitimately good UIs now.
jayd16 9mo ago
If they actually planned to compete on it they could just offer Carplay support as an option, no?
nightski 9mo ago
Oh wow it doesn't have Carplay/Android Auto? Yes they definitely differentiated themselves, into me not wanting one anymore...

wilg 9mo ago

What, no. I'd buy a Rivian R2 right now to replace my Model Y if it 1) existed and 2) matched FSD features.

dawnerd 9mo ago
I'm in the same boat. My Model Y has to last until the R2 with lidar comes out. Hopefully it'll have some value left in it.

hansonkd 9mo ago

It's maddening that $100k purchases get totally nerfed by bad software. Absolutely crazy to me that I can go out find a super nice car I want and have to walk away because of bad software or no carplay support.

Hovertruck 9mo ago

I hear this a lot and it's surprising to me. We have three cars in our family (two with carplay and the Rivian) and carplay always feels like such a downgraded experience compared to that of the Rivian.

doctoboggan 9mo ago
I have a plex server and use Prologue for audio books. What would my experience on Rivian be like? I am guessing I would have to connect to the infotainment system as a bluetooth speaker? Would I be able to easily skip forward/backward and see the current chapter? I've been using car play for the better part of the past decade and don't know what it looks like in vehicles without it.
- Zee2 9mo ago
  I think the revenue source times number of people using Plex for audiobooks as a total market value for Rivian is approximately zero.
  - doctoboggan 9mo ago
    It’s not just plex, it’s the long tail of iPhone apps that work with CarPlay but don’t with rivian. It’s the reason I always seek out CarPlay and why Tesla has reportedly decided it’s worth adding CarPlay to capture people like me.
  - Mashimo 9mo ago
    What if you listen to audio books with a 3rd party app that you really like, but it's not on rivian? I would expect you can still skip forward and back, and read titles. So as long as you start before you drive you might be gucci?
- Mashimo 9mo ago
  I don't know about Rivian, but last time I used bluetooth in a car you could see current title, play/pause and skip forward and back. But that is all, no playlists control.

octorian 9mo ago

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'll take a car infotainment system that doesn't need CarPlay/AndroidAuto to be usable (and lacks it) over one that requires a phone attached via CarPlay/AndroidAuto to be usable. I use Android Auto on rental cars all the time. My daily driver is a Tesla (Model S /w MCU v2) that doesn't have it. And doesn't need it to provide a usable experience.

simondotau 9mo ago
I've only rented Teslas but I can see how most people would consider CP/AA to be unnecessary given the quality of their integrated software. But for me, the two things Tesla can't do (and CP/AA can) is 1. Waze; 2. My preferred third-party podcasting app.
neogodless 9mo ago
If the software has the same library as your phone, then I could why you see it as on par. Android Automotive has a much smaller library than Android Auto, so the selection for audio apps, such as podcasts and music, are much more limited. The options for map software is smaller too. Also Android Automotive doesn't necessarily use your phone's existing internet connection. Depending on the maker, you have to subscribe to a separate data plan.

jinushaun 9mo ago

And real door handles. And real buttons. And better customer service. Who was this announcement for? I’m at a point where I think Rivian’s real customers are investors.