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I literally just want a touchpad with buttons. These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. They are so much slower, and certain workflows are impossible
by Deuter8 1y ago
I literally just want a touchpad with buttons. These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. They are so much slower, and certain workflows are impossible. I must use an external mouse now with modern laptops.
Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option?
- criddell 1y agoWhat workflows are impossible with a trackpad but possible with a mouse?
- diggan 1y agoWith the trackpads that have built-in clicks in the pad itself, I've always found it really difficult to drag-and-drop stuff if it has to be pulled longer than a few pixels. Just moving and pressing against a surface seems to not be a super accurate movement in general.
- sorrythanks 1y agoHave you tried holding with one finger and aiming with the other?
- diggan 1y agoI don't think I have, long time ago I had to use a laptop myself, just remember that being difficult last time I had to do it together with someone else. Probably depends on the software/hardware itself also, how well something like that would work.
- Deuter8 1y agoHave you? The precision vs a touchpad with buttons isn't even close. It may well be a driver issue in Linux, all I know for sure is that it's an issue that does not exist with touchpads and that I have already spent far too much of my life fiddling with settings trying to get it to behave.
- sorrythanks 1y agoI have, yes! I do it a lot when dragging and dropping on Linux. Start the drag with one finger, and then bring a new finger in to move it. It's just like using a button. I've not had to configure anything to make this work for a number of years now in Plasma. Though I've been running Linux on Macbooks for a long time, so maybe it's about specific hardware support.
- pmontra 1y agoI never had problems with precision on HP high end models, Windows XP up to 2008 and several Ubuntu versions since then to 2022, then Debian. I own an nc8430 and a ZBook 15 first generation. I use the lower row of three mouse buttons as left, middle and right click. Those touchpads don't move and don't bend. I disabled tap to click as buttons are much better and never move accidentally the pointer by design. Palm detection works very well, basically no issues. I use two finger scroll and pan. Several gestures work but I don't really like them. I disabled everything. I rather use keyboard shortcuts. I defined some of my own especially to navigate among virtual desktops. There is still one ZBook Fury model with buttons, every other model lost them.
- c-hendricks 1y agoAlthough it gets buggier with every release, macOS has a three-finger-drag operation, and there's a grace period when you lift your fingers if you need to adjust your position over the trackpad. It also lets you just fling one finger. There is this for Linux but I've never tried it: https://github.com/marsqing/libinput-three-finger-drag https://github.com/marsqing/libinput-three-finger-drag
- Deuter8 1y agoWhile I prefer an external mouse, I can manage ECAD and some 3D modelling if I have buttons. It's great in a pinch. I'm getting nauseous even imagining it with a clickpad.
- dismalaf 1y agoThinkPads still have buttons, or do you require buttons specifically under the touchpad?
- iknowstuff 1y agoI’ve never missed having buttons on the macbook trackpad lol How are they slower/impossible?
- aaomidi 1y agoBecause the macbook trackpad is good.
- ksec 1y agoProblem is none of the trackpad on PC are as good as the Apple trackpad
- kibwen 1y agoHardware-wise, no, I've had plenty of PC trackpads that are better than Apple trackpads. But MacOS tends to have better built-in support for advanced gestures, which seem to be impossible on Windows and must be manually configured on Linux (but gives you enormous power once you do).
- dismalaf 1y agoGNOME on Wayland has lots of useful gestures out of the box. It's part of the DE though, so lots of DEs don't have them.
- kzrdude 1y agoUsing Gnome (for whatever reason), I'm used to two finger scrolling and three finger swiping just working by default.
- danudey 1y agoApple's palm rejection is also top tier, though other systems have been getting better. My current Dell seems fine so far, but at my last company the Dell I had was almost unusable due to my cursor just teleporting around my document randomly if my hands got too close to the trackpad (which is where they have to be to type). Not sure if it's a hardware (Dell) or software (Ubuntu) improvement, but thank god.
- soperj 1y agoThinkpads still have buttons. I don't ever use the trackpad, just the nub and buttons.
- SoftTalker 1y agoBest keyboard/mouse implementation ever. I use a thinkpad keyboard on my desktop. A separate mouse feels so klunky by comparison.
- rustyminnow 1y agoI would be all in on the nub if mine didn't have such terrible drift. Trackpad with top buttons beats any other trackpad though.
- opan 1y agoYou may be running into the auto calibration.
- JoshTriplett 1y agoI use the touchpad together with the buttons, on my ThinkPad, and rarely use the stick.
- neilv 1y agoI have bad news for you: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p1-gen-7-16-inch-intel/len101t0107 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/th... Someone should scoop up the niche market of anguished ThinkPad devotees, with a TrackPoint and a good, non-chiclet keyboard. Maybe Framework, leveraging its modular system. Maybe a Framework-compatible third-party.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoCan only speak for myself, but for me the issue with traditional clickpads comes down to their mechanical diving board nature. Even the best ones are not nice to use due to the unavoidable variance in pressure and click feel across the pad that is exacerbated as the size of the pad increases and the mechanism wears over time. The type that doesn’t move at all and simulates a click with haptics on the other hand I find just fine. MacBooks do this of course but there’s also a few x86 laptops equipped with pads like that. So in my opinion, mechanical clickpads should disappear entirely and laptops should offer two options: a static haptic clickpad and traditional trackpad with buttons.
- jsmith45 1y agoHonestly, I'm here half wondering why we need the click at all. One finger drag for move, quick one finger tap for left click, tap and half for click and drag, two finger tap, two finger drag for scroll covers all the common interactions. Which isn't to say I don't use the click functionality at all. I will subconciously use it in some scenarios, but not in others, but if it were missing I would adapt very quickly, since I use the gesture alternatives so often, that I would automatically fall back to them. I suppose I need the click for some obscure interactions like right click drag, but honestly except in games I've almost never seen that used. My surface laptop as currently configured literally wouldn't even allow some other rare ones like hold button and scroll (I'd need to turn on right side scroll-wheel for that) and I've never even noticed the absence of that ability until I tried it just now.
- rootnod3 1y agoI feel you. An option with a trackpoint would be a dream.
- gloxkiqcza 1y agoCan’t you map a keyboard button as a mouse click? I agree it’s not the best workaround but it should be a functional one, right?
- Deuter8 1y agoMy current plan is to retrofit buttons to my clickpad. Earlier this week I ordered a few different styles of touchpad buttons from AliExpress to test. I'll build a custom little USB HID device for it once I've picked my favourite one. I don't think I can rely on laptop manufacturers to buck the clickpad trend any time soon, so I'll do it myself.
- pmontra 1y agoThat would be incredibly cool. Please post a Show HN of your project. I'm afraid that I'll need to do something like that for my next laptop.
- Aurornis 1y ago> Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option? Because it’s a variation of both the case and the internals that brings a higher failure rate, more dust ingress, more moving parts, and, most importantly, would rarely be chosen. > They are so much slower, They are objectively faster because you can click anywhere rather than moving a finger to a button or keeping one finger always on the button.
- MobiusHorizons 1y agoSome people used to use a separate finger like the thumb to click, which is pretty fast.
- chao- 1y agoThis is my issue! All these years later, I am still not used to it, and I accidentally trigger multi-tap nonsense that I didn't intend because I am trying to click with my thumb.
- vile_wretch 1y agoMy only point of reference is my MacBook Pro trackpad but I have no problem using my finger to move the cursor with my thumb resting on the trackpad and clicking. Not exactly the same because you lose some of the tactility of discrete buttons but it seems somewhat possible at least.
- MobiusHorizons 1y agoYeah, most of the non-apple implementations of this don’t work with using a second finger to click in my experience. They expect you to click with the pointing finger.
- JoshTriplett 1y agoExactly. On ThinkPad touchpads with real hardware mouse buttons, I move on the touchpad with my pointer finger, and click with my middle finger.
- nrp 1y agoThe Touchpad Module is easy to replace, and the CAD and interface specs we've published on https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16 https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16 are likely detailed enough that anyone can try making one!
- JoshTriplett 1y agoHow much demand would there need to be for you to make one first-party? How might we go about registering the quantity of that demand?
- nine_k 1y agoAside: what if frame.work site had a place for popular vote for features? (With proper registration, etc.) E.g. Digital Ocean has this, and it seems helpful, they follow up on some of the most upvoted feature requests. It's sort of free market research.
- blackoil 1y agoKickstarter style upfront payment may be more useful. You want touchpad with buttons; it would cost 300k to develop if enough people paid, the company would build it. If it is a niche, let open ecosystem take care of it.
- IshKebab 1y ago> These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. But only because they are all worse than Apple's version. What you really want isn't a touchpad with buttons, is a "clickpad" that doesn't suck. And as far as I know only Apple makes them.