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There was a pretty good Kurzgesagt video posted earlier today on alcohol in general: https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ The shift in per

There was a pretty good Kurzgesagt video posted earlier today on alcohol in general: https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ https://youtu.be/aOwmt39L2IQ The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Even outside of the health benefits, a night out at the bar is expensive now (at least on the East Coast) and honestly speaking other drugs are simply more cost-effective. I still have the occasional cocktail when going out with friends but now that I'm focused more on my overall fitness I find less of a reason to drink now. Still love the vibe of bars and pubs though. Anecdotally knowing that club drugs like ketamine and 2c-b are gaining popularity, I wonder whether young people may be turning onto substances like those now or if in general Gen-Z prefers to abstain entirely.

chiffre01 1y ago
Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.
- trashface 1y ago
  When I replaced social drinking with solo drinking, I actually drank less (and at a slower pace). Without exception, every bad hangover I've had was from social drinking.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.
  - oldmanhorton 1y ago
    And also, a decent chunk of alcohol consumption must be solo? I'd bet alcohol is broadly more social, but I would also wonder if that would change if more public gathering places served weed in some form.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    Since opium dens fell out of favor, the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs). This could change, but it hasn't yet. It sure seems like society's just swinging antisocial.
    - xnx 1y ago
      > the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs) caffeine (cafes)
      - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
        Maybe it's just where I live, but cafes and coffee shops no longer have the expectation of being open to conversation with strangers.
    - throwawa5 1y ago
      Raves, (some) nightclubs, and music festivals are the equivalent for MDMA/ket/psychedelics and there are plenty of options in every city.
    - tpm 1y ago
      There are also teahouses in some cities.
- taeric 1y ago
  Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.
- epolanski 1y ago
  I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone. Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people. Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.
  - calmbonsai 1y ago
    I guess I'm odd in that I enjoy alcohol both ways. I love a good novel paired with a whisky for an solo evening in, pints with 'da boyz at the pub, and food & winery tours with couples and friends.
- atsushin 1y ago
  The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    When I was young we lived just as spread out. We just biked/skateboarded to places. We stashed our surf boards at the closest house to the beach. We made third spaces happen. Why has that stopped being an option? Is it because people's parents are too scared to let them do it when they are young (we were taking public busses to downtown Santa Cruz in junior high but we were latch key 80s/90s kids with zero oversite) and so they don't realize it's an option when they are older or?
    - xp84 1y ago
      You might be on to something. And if you consider that the generation that's 22 -- near peak "going out" age in the old days, was in COVID lockdown during that late high school period, which for me was a huge spike in how much time I spent away from my house. That was on top of the "constant supervision and scheduled activities" regime that took over right about the time the oldest GenZ-ers hit late elementary years, and the smartphones and tablets that hit as that cohort hit their teens. Gen X really ruined their kids in the name of safety. I don't blame Gen Z one bit, they really never had a chance at a healthy social life.
    - DANmode 1y ago
      Because not everyone is born into, or lives in, beach culture. that'll be the reason in most cases.
      - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
        Why does it have to be beach culture? Where I live now we have: Mountain hiking/biking trails started from the outskirts of town. Parks within town. A downtown with parks and a lake front park with swimming, volleyball, basketball, lakefront trails, small food concessions. A city skate/bike park. City tennis courts. City basketball courts. A walking/biking trail that runs from one edge of town to another, ending in a mountain biking/hiking trail system. All of these things are way way under utilized compared to 10 years ago even though the youth population has grown. They used to be packed. Only thing busy is the library, I suspect because it has wifi/computers/gaming computers/air conditioning but it's still only like 20-30 people. I rarely see anyone under 40 on the mountain hiking/biking trails. Ski mountain/biking has 20 somethings but most cars are from out of town. Parks are practically empty. Mainly moms and young children. I don't go to the waterfront park so no idea, but downtown I hardly see people heading down there/coming back where before it was a constant stream. Skate park is a few parents with young kids. Tennis courts are mainly 50+. Basketball courts are empty. Bike path is mainly 40+. Town seems deserted at this point, it's wild. We have a used bike shop with basically 'donation' bikes that are $50 and have new tires, brakes, tuned up ready to go, so I don't think it's accessibility. I guess most of these things are aged out things, where the group that did them is now 40+, but younger groups complaining about no third spaces there are a ton they just aren't used.
- weinzierl 1y ago
  Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    The entire upside of alcohol use is social lubrication. Frankly, I think our society could benefit from a bit more peer pressure.
    - littlexsparkee 1y ago
      You can get the social upside with adaptogens which are increasingly showing up in canned drinks or drinking kava with friends. Alcohol doesn't have a monopoly on that.
      - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
        We could, but we don't. Alcohol currently has a defacto monopoly on lubricated social spaces. Distant second is nicotine. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
  - sillyfluke 1y ago
    Yeah my guess is that this stat won't survive a booming economy. Younger generations are social drinkers and they are skipping drinks when eating out and going out less in general since they're cash strapped. So it's meaningless in this regard, but the stat might still be useful in showing just how fucked the economy truly is.
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  > being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything. Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere. Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized. And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    > people are getting priced out Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it and you don’t need to go to a bar to have it. You can get 30 rack for about $20 and hang out in a park with your buddies to finish it.
    - throwawa5 1y ago
      > Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it A hit of acid costs $10 and lasts for 12 hours. A 5-10mg THC edible costs around $5, maybe a bit less, and lasts for 4-6 hours. A small dose of mushrooms (500mg-1g), about the same as the edible. Little to no hangover from all of the above unless you go really hard. (Ketamine is an exception here, unless you keep your use infrequent the steep tolerance curve will cause your costs to blow up quickly.) Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? Wine or a decent cocktail cost even more. Seems like other substances offer the better deal here if you're looking at pure cost per hour of active effects. If you consider health effects, they win out on that score too, assuming no underlying mental health diagnoses.
      - moregrist 1y ago
        > Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? That’s a feature, not a bug. When I want a drink or two, I like to know that I’ll be pretty much sober in 1-2 hours and can drive or do whatever. Setting aside 4-12 hours of time for recreational drug use is a commitment. You’re basically setting aside somewhere between a whole evening to a half day. If you time it wrong, you’re not even sober by morning.
- zevon 1y ago
  I find this dichotomy a bit strange. A lot of people consume alcohol alone and in many cases this ends up badly for them (no need to speculate about foreboding - the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available). Cannabis can be very common in and around social settings, depending on where you are in the world. Other drugs are also pretty much everywhere, including social spaces. They are just more invisible due to their illegality.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    > the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available My understanding is that the evidence suggests that light social drinkers tend to be healthier and live longer than people who drink not at all.
    - zevon 1y ago
      Which was not at all what I was taking about, or am I missing a point?
    - Gigachad 1y ago
      That’s just people who have friends and socialise are healthier. There are only negative health effects from alcohol itself. If you went out to all those same events and just drank non alcoholic drinks you’d be healthier.
      - fragmede 1y ago
        That assumes you'd be the same amount of social at those events without alcohol. If a beer or two takes the edge off and you're able to relax and relate and socialize and you're happy, vs you're nervous and uptight and are alone in a crowd, you don't get the same benefit. It's not called a social lubricant for nothing.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
      This line of thinking has been heavily questioned in recent years. People who never drink typically have a strong reason (recovering alcoholic) for which they have already suffered long term damage. Even people who “don’t drink” can be convinced to imbibe a bit on a special occasion (New Years, graduation, wedding, etc).
- TheAlchemist 1y ago
  Exactly this ! I'm not advocating for more alcohol consumption, coming from a Eastern European country I've seen my fair share of what alcoholism can do to people. However, it feels like there are 2 trends, none of which is good from my perspective. First one is what you mention - replacing social activities with solo ones. Second one is overprotecting kids, young adults and everybody in general. Kids in many modern countries are glued to phones and screens in part because their parents or schools don't let them to just go find something to do outside. Let them play on their own - yes it can be dangerous, but if they break an arm or a leg, so be it. They will be fine within a month.
- stikypad 1y ago
  TFA says the same surveys indicate that alcohol is not being replaced by marijuana use.
- silisili 1y ago
  Everything is being replaced with solo everything. I know so many young Millennials and Z'ers who quite literally never leave the house. They're content with Doordash and their phones for media. This is what corporations want. Lonely people are constant eyeballs . But this can't be good for society as a whole.
staplers 1y ago
NA beers and cocktails are becoming more common at bars and restaurants, which helps dramatically if you are shifting lifestyles. You can still go out with friends and enjoy festivities while "blending in". People are often more caged if they're drinking and you're not and that subtle camouflage can help alleviate that social awkwardness.
OkayPhysicist 1y ago
Substance use is dropping precipitously, because partying and socialization writ large are dropping. The people who party are still drinking, they're really not the ones driving these decreases. Alcohol's primary purpose in our society is as a social lubricant. It both lowers inhibitions, and in the expectation of its doing so creates spaces with freer acceptable behavior. Cannabis doesn't currently fill that niche, because there aren't really spaces dedicated to its consumption.
- littlexsparkee 1y ago
  Well, with edibles, mints, drinks - does there need to be? There are lounges opening in some cities like Oakland, SF but that's an emerging thing depending on openness to changing zoning.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    Dedicated spaces to consuming social lubricants naturally are social spaces. Losing them would be a dramatic blow to the entire concept of social life.
    - littlexsparkee 1y ago
      Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just saying someone could take a 5mg THC mint and then grab a beer at a bar to be social. My point is that weed can be social in any third place, whether or not it's dedicated to it.
      - dmonitor 1y ago
        > and then grab a beer at a bar to be social I feel like you're missing the point. The bar a necessary part of the equation because alcohol has a social monopoly on physical locations.
      - throwawa5 1y ago
        And many US cities allow bars to serve THC-infused drinks. They won't win any awards for flavor but can be a fun alternative to alcohol.
zamalek 1y ago
> night out at the bar is expensive now "They" will make it cheaper. If you look at the cost of alcohol in developing countries, it can be way WAY cheaper. The profit and tax margins are currently colossal, both of which can be changed by big booze.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  It’s not just alcohol tax. Rent, wages, and insurance cost way more than in developing countries.
- kingstnap 1y ago
  You don't really need to compare to developing countries. Making alcohol is not hard. It's not technically complicated, it's not dangerous, it's not capital intensive, it's not laborious, and the inputs are all cheap commodity goods. If you went and bought a big barrel and some other equipment, you could make alcohol for literally pennies per can.
socalgal2 1y ago
> The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing. If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment. I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears. Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life: As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest. As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing. As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association. Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it. As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience. Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/ https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/
- kruffalon 1y ago
  > my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?
Balgair 1y ago
> a night out at the bar is expensive now I mean, I understand the economics of it. Rent, wages, pricing, supply and demand, etc. But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive. Like, it literally grows on trees (if you leave it there a bit). Booze is the thing where sales go up when things get worse (lipstick too, right?). I'm not saying this is a bad thing that we're not drinking as much, but I am saying that not drinking as much is a sign of really bad things.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  This stat is way less interesting when it turns out the main driver for the drop is the economy, which my bet is on, and which is why the article buries that cause and puts it towards the end of the article. If the stat can't survive a booming economy it's kind of meaningless. But it might be very interesting for another reason: it might be confirming the perception of the economy is at an all time low as well.
- theshackleford 1y ago
  > But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive. In my country, it is now taxed very heavily, and that tax increases every year. I would be insane to choose alcohol as opposed to literally any other drug on a cost basis. I assure you, Cannabis has not raised in price every year.

chiffre01 1y ago

Anecdotally it seems like alcohol is being replaced with weed or other things. But it doesn't bode well for the future of mental health if social drinking is being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything.

trashface 1y ago
When I replaced social drinking with solo drinking, I actually drank less (and at a slower pace). Without exception, every bad hangover I've had was from social drinking.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
if. Other drug use can be just as social as alcohol consumption.
- oldmanhorton 1y ago
  And also, a decent chunk of alcohol consumption must be solo? I'd bet alcohol is broadly more social, but I would also wonder if that would change if more public gathering places served weed in some form.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  Since opium dens fell out of favor, the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs). This could change, but it hasn't yet. It sure seems like society's just swinging antisocial.
  - xnx 1y ago
    > the only psychoactive substances that have dedicated social spaces are booze (bars, nightclubs) and nicotine (hookah lounges, cigar clubs) caffeine (cafes)
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      Maybe it's just where I live, but cafes and coffee shops no longer have the expectation of being open to conversation with strangers.
  - throwawa5 1y ago
    Raves, (some) nightclubs, and music festivals are the equivalent for MDMA/ket/psychedelics and there are plenty of options in every city.
  - tpm 1y ago
    There are also teahouses in some cities.
taeric 1y ago
Yeah, I have a hard time thinking this is specifically a good thing. A better relationship with drinking is not something to argue against, of course. But I find the dysfunction in so many people that take a strong stance against it rather hard to ignore, as well.
epolanski 1y ago
I think you have a point. While I drink mostly in company, and rarely if ever alone, I do consume weed mostly alone. Also, as it makes me tired, it also makes me less incline to go out and meet people. Those, and other reasons generally push me against consuming it more than few times an year.
- calmbonsai 1y ago
  I guess I'm odd in that I enjoy alcohol both ways. I love a good novel paired with a whisky for an solo evening in, pints with 'da boyz at the pub, and food & winery tours with couples and friends.
atsushin 1y ago
The lack of IRL 'third places' for young people to meet locally will only exacerbate the issue -- and probably should bear most of the blame. The car-centric infrastructure of the suburbs (well, the vast majority of America) encourages isolation and asocial behavior. It really sucks that for some, their lives will never go beyond that invisible cage.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  When I was young we lived just as spread out. We just biked/skateboarded to places. We stashed our surf boards at the closest house to the beach. We made third spaces happen. Why has that stopped being an option? Is it because people's parents are too scared to let them do it when they are young (we were taking public busses to downtown Santa Cruz in junior high but we were latch key 80s/90s kids with zero oversite) and so they don't realize it's an option when they are older or?
  - xp84 1y ago
    You might be on to something. And if you consider that the generation that's 22 -- near peak "going out" age in the old days, was in COVID lockdown during that late high school period, which for me was a huge spike in how much time I spent away from my house. That was on top of the "constant supervision and scheduled activities" regime that took over right about the time the oldest GenZ-ers hit late elementary years, and the smartphones and tablets that hit as that cohort hit their teens. Gen X really ruined their kids in the name of safety. I don't blame Gen Z one bit, they really never had a chance at a healthy social life.
  - DANmode 1y ago
    Because not everyone is born into, or lives in, beach culture. that'll be the reason in most cases.
    - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
      Why does it have to be beach culture? Where I live now we have: Mountain hiking/biking trails started from the outskirts of town. Parks within town. A downtown with parks and a lake front park with swimming, volleyball, basketball, lakefront trails, small food concessions. A city skate/bike park. City tennis courts. City basketball courts. A walking/biking trail that runs from one edge of town to another, ending in a mountain biking/hiking trail system. All of these things are way way under utilized compared to 10 years ago even though the youth population has grown. They used to be packed. Only thing busy is the library, I suspect because it has wifi/computers/gaming computers/air conditioning but it's still only like 20-30 people. I rarely see anyone under 40 on the mountain hiking/biking trails. Ski mountain/biking has 20 somethings but most cars are from out of town. Parks are practically empty. Mainly moms and young children. I don't go to the waterfront park so no idea, but downtown I hardly see people heading down there/coming back where before it was a constant stream. Skate park is a few parents with young kids. Tennis courts are mainly 50+. Basketball courts are empty. Bike path is mainly 40+. Town seems deserted at this point, it's wild. We have a used bike shop with basically 'donation' bikes that are $50 and have new tires, brakes, tuned up ready to go, so I don't think it's accessibility. I guess most of these things are aged out things, where the group that did them is now 40+, but younger groups complaining about no third spaces there are a ton they just aren't used.
weinzierl 1y ago
Quite to the contrary. A big part of alcohol use is group pressure. Much better for everyone if people enjoy their drugs alone.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  The entire upside of alcohol use is social lubrication. Frankly, I think our society could benefit from a bit more peer pressure.
  - littlexsparkee 1y ago
    You can get the social upside with adaptogens which are increasingly showing up in canned drinks or drinking kava with friends. Alcohol doesn't have a monopoly on that.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      We could, but we don't. Alcohol currently has a defacto monopoly on lubricated social spaces. Distant second is nicotine. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  Yeah my guess is that this stat won't survive a booming economy. Younger generations are social drinkers and they are skipping drinks when eating out and going out less in general since they're cash strapped. So it's meaningless in this regard, but the stat might still be useful in showing just how fucked the economy truly is.
thewebguyd 1y ago
> being replaced with solo drug use or just solo everything. Solo everything is definitely happening. People are getting priced out, and the third place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place) has pretty much disappeared everywhere. Gen Z is considered the loneliest generation, and its easy to see why. COVID messed things up too, and there's a lot of kids and young adults that have not been properly socialized. And since you have to spend, increasingly large amounts, of money just to go out with friends, people will just stay home instead. Maybe that looks like chatting on discord while playing a game together, but increasingly its looking like solo activities.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  > people are getting priced out Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it and you don’t need to go to a bar to have it. You can get 30 rack for about $20 and hang out in a park with your buddies to finish it.
  - throwawa5 1y ago
    > Alcohol is still cheaper than pretty much all the substances that are replacing it A hit of acid costs $10 and lasts for 12 hours. A 5-10mg THC edible costs around $5, maybe a bit less, and lasts for 4-6 hours. A small dose of mushrooms (500mg-1g), about the same as the edible. Little to no hangover from all of the above unless you go really hard. (Ketamine is an exception here, unless you keep your use infrequent the steep tolerance curve will cause your costs to blow up quickly.) Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? Wine or a decent cocktail cost even more. Seems like other substances offer the better deal here if you're looking at pure cost per hour of active effects. If you consider health effects, they win out on that score too, assuming no underlying mental health diagnoses.
    - moregrist 1y ago
      > Meanwhile, a pint in a major US city costs like $10 with tax + tip and lasts for what, an hour? That’s a feature, not a bug. When I want a drink or two, I like to know that I’ll be pretty much sober in 1-2 hours and can drive or do whatever. Setting aside 4-12 hours of time for recreational drug use is a commitment. You’re basically setting aside somewhere between a whole evening to a half day. If you time it wrong, you’re not even sober by morning.
zevon 1y ago
I find this dichotomy a bit strange. A lot of people consume alcohol alone and in many cases this ends up badly for them (no need to speculate about foreboding - the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available). Cannabis can be very common in and around social settings, depending on where you are in the world. Other drugs are also pretty much everywhere, including social spaces. They are just more invisible due to their illegality.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  > the body (and the bodies) of evidence is readily available My understanding is that the evidence suggests that light social drinkers tend to be healthier and live longer than people who drink not at all.
  - zevon 1y ago
    Which was not at all what I was taking about, or am I missing a point?
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    That’s just people who have friends and socialise are healthier. There are only negative health effects from alcohol itself. If you went out to all those same events and just drank non alcoholic drinks you’d be healthier.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      That assumes you'd be the same amount of social at those events without alcohol. If a beer or two takes the edge off and you're able to relax and relate and socialize and you're happy, vs you're nervous and uptight and are alone in a crowd, you don't get the same benefit. It's not called a social lubricant for nothing.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
    This line of thinking has been heavily questioned in recent years. People who never drink typically have a strong reason (recovering alcoholic) for which they have already suffered long term damage. Even people who “don’t drink” can be convinced to imbibe a bit on a special occasion (New Years, graduation, wedding, etc).
TheAlchemist 1y ago
Exactly this ! I'm not advocating for more alcohol consumption, coming from a Eastern European country I've seen my fair share of what alcoholism can do to people. However, it feels like there are 2 trends, none of which is good from my perspective. First one is what you mention - replacing social activities with solo ones. Second one is overprotecting kids, young adults and everybody in general. Kids in many modern countries are glued to phones and screens in part because their parents or schools don't let them to just go find something to do outside. Let them play on their own - yes it can be dangerous, but if they break an arm or a leg, so be it. They will be fine within a month.
stikypad 1y ago
TFA says the same surveys indicate that alcohol is not being replaced by marijuana use.
silisili 1y ago
Everything is being replaced with solo everything. I know so many young Millennials and Z'ers who quite literally never leave the house. They're content with Doordash and their phones for media. This is what corporations want. Lonely people are constant eyeballs . But this can't be good for society as a whole.

staplers 1y ago

NA beers and cocktails are becoming more common at bars and restaurants, which helps dramatically if you are shifting lifestyles. You can still go out with friends and enjoy festivities while "blending in". People are often more caged if they're drinking and you're not and that subtle camouflage can help alleviate that social awkwardness.

OkayPhysicist 1y ago

Substance use is dropping precipitously, because partying and socialization writ large are dropping. The people who party are still drinking, they're really not the ones driving these decreases. Alcohol's primary purpose in our society is as a social lubricant. It both lowers inhibitions, and in the expectation of its doing so creates spaces with freer acceptable behavior. Cannabis doesn't currently fill that niche, because there aren't really spaces dedicated to its consumption.

littlexsparkee 1y ago
Well, with edibles, mints, drinks - does there need to be? There are lounges opening in some cities like Oakland, SF but that's an emerging thing depending on openness to changing zoning.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  Dedicated spaces to consuming social lubricants naturally are social spaces. Losing them would be a dramatic blow to the entire concept of social life.
  - littlexsparkee 1y ago
    Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just saying someone could take a 5mg THC mint and then grab a beer at a bar to be social. My point is that weed can be social in any third place, whether or not it's dedicated to it.
    - dmonitor 1y ago
      > and then grab a beer at a bar to be social I feel like you're missing the point. The bar a necessary part of the equation because alcohol has a social monopoly on physical locations.
    - throwawa5 1y ago
      And many US cities allow bars to serve THC-infused drinks. They won't win any awards for flavor but can be a fun alternative to alcohol.

zamalek 1y ago

> night out at the bar is expensive now "They" will make it cheaper. If you look at the cost of alcohol in developing countries, it can be way WAY cheaper. The profit and tax margins are currently colossal, both of which can be changed by big booze.

Gigachad 1y ago
It’s not just alcohol tax. Rent, wages, and insurance cost way more than in developing countries.
kingstnap 1y ago
You don't really need to compare to developing countries. Making alcohol is not hard. It's not technically complicated, it's not dangerous, it's not capital intensive, it's not laborious, and the inputs are all cheap commodity goods. If you went and bought a big barrel and some other equipment, you could make alcohol for literally pennies per can.

socalgal2 1y ago

> The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign. Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing. If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment. I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears. Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life: As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest. As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing. As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association. Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it. As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience. Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/ https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/

kruffalon 1y ago
> my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?

Balgair 1y ago

> a night out at the bar is expensive now I mean, I understand the economics of it. Rent, wages, pricing, supply and demand, etc. But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive. Like, it literally grows on trees (if you leave it there a bit). Booze is the thing where sales go up when things get worse (lipstick too, right?). I'm not saying this is a bad thing that we're not drinking as much, but I am saying that not drinking as much is a sign of really bad things.

sillyfluke 1y ago
This stat is way less interesting when it turns out the main driver for the drop is the economy, which my bet is on, and which is why the article buries that cause and puts it towards the end of the article. If the stat can't survive a booming economy it's kind of meaningless. But it might be very interesting for another reason: it might be confirming the perception of the economy is at an all time low as well.
theshackleford 1y ago
> But, like, how messed up are things that hooch is too expensive. In my country, it is now taxed very heavily, and that tax increases every year. I would be insane to choose alcohol as opposed to literally any other drug on a cost basis. I assure you, Cannabis has not raised in price every year.