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Why drinking coffee in Iran has become so complicated

137 points by imnitwit 1y ago

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
duxup 1y ago
>They’re selling a lifestyle. People eat up "lifestyle" brand stuff like crazy. I suspect people just want something special in their daily lives. I get that. I assume it's appealing to sellers too because it inspires some potential level of loyalty and uniqueness when it comes to their products where otherwise it is "just coffee". Granted I say that while I sip my Kirkland coffee here at my desk, amused that what was once a sort of semi generic store brand, Kirkland now has it's own apparel with its brand on it and Costco fans love it. I guess we can find something special everywhere.
- bluedino 1y ago
  I was on a coffee shop kick for...15 years? And then I just quit. I'm not sure if was the price, waiting in line, or the quality going down since so many places popped up or what. But I just have zero interest in buying a coffee. I drink generic stuff I make at home. Or I just go without. Oddly around the same time I quit drinking sodas.
  - rdtsc 1y ago
    I am kind of the same. I will support local coffee shops frequently but I am not good enough to notice the super fine flavor profiles or remember them. They all taste “yummy” including the stuff I grind and brew at home or from Costco.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Yep it’s all about justifying $6-8 or more for a freaking cup of coffee. Even McDonald’s got in on it. Used to pay about $1 for a drip-brewed cup of coffee, now it’s “McCafe” and closer to $5. I drink Folgers and that’s good enough.
  - antasvara 1y ago
    Just out of curiosity, is there nothing that you have preferences about? Because I think it's easy to look at someone else's hobby and reflexively say that they're overpaying for something. For example, I can't personally fathom paying 4k for a gaming PC. 60 vs 40 frames per second doesn't "matter" to me in any meaningful sense. That being said, I totally get why other people care. If gaming is the thing you really enjoy, I can see why you might want the faster framerate. If you exclusively play super demanding games, I can see wanting decreased loading times and better graphics. I guess the point I'm making is it's totally fine to drink your Folgers and be fine with that. I do also think that there are "overpriced" coffee places that aren't offering meaningfully better quality and are surviving based on branding. But I think it's okay to spend more for things that you like more. If might be "just a cup of coffee" to you, but reflect and consider what your "cup of coffee" is. In my opinion, life is more fun when we can enjoy the variety that it has to offer and let others do the same.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Oh sure, I have no objection to people doing it, enough people like Starbucks coffee to keep them in business and employing people and paying taxes so it's all good in that sense. I just don't partake. Also if I like something (e.g. Whiskey) I try to find the bargain values that are still good (e.g. Evan Williams White Label 100 Proof) rather than spending a lot more on a bottle that's marginally (if at all) better but has a name with more cachet.
  - elijaht 1y ago
    I see a medium coffee in the McDonald’s app for $1.79. What does it cost near you?
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Interesting, last time I was at Mc Donald’s brewed coffee didn’t seem to be on the menu. I had an Americano which was the closest thing to what I really wanted. I very rarely eat there anymore so not sure I’ll have a chance to verify.
Festro 1y ago
Article posits this argument: "They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle." Then says of the old coffee "Coffee in Iran isn’t new—we were drinking it long before tea took over. Back in the Safavid era, coffeehouses were where people gathered for stories, debates, and a hit of something strong." - this is a lifestyle related to coffee. And says about the new coffee "Walk in, and the menu reads like a novel: “Ethiopian Yirgacheffe with hints of jasmine and citrus.”" - this is the literal attributes of coffee, origin and flavour profile. I'm sorry, but coffee is now, more than ever, about the coffee. People who enjoy coffee then make it a part of their lifestyle. I'd love to hear more about the older Iranian coffee culture, that sounds wonderfully romantic. It's a pattern across the world that we've lost access to third spaces as everything gains a capitalised cost. And as media has intensified and technology poked into every waking moment we're less likely to gather amongst our community in those spaces to just sit and listen anymore. I think we've evolved new ways of doing things, like how we enjoy our newfound international access to coffee varietals but it's good to address what we've lost in doing so. This article is a bit whiny about the new, and doesn't talk enough about the qualities of the old. There's a good point to be made, but the article makes it poorly.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  Seriously. This article seems to reveal much more about the author than about coffee. I can't speak about Iran, but getting into coffee is no different from getting into pie-making, or sourdough, or wine, or cocktail-making. They write: > Coffee used to be fuel. Now it’s a lifestyle accessory. I think this is the quote that reveals everything. People don't want just "fuel" anymore. They want something that actually tastes good. But for some reason the author thinks it's all about marketing, insecurity, and influencers. Can't the author just let people enjoy what they like? Why does it bother the author so much? Why can't they even imagine it might just be because the coffee tastes better, and it's a relatively inexpensive and fun hobby if you want to get into it? Why do they have to judge people for it instead?
- visarga 1y ago
  > "They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle." I like the emphatic style of GPT-4o lately. I can spot it from a mile.
paganel 1y ago
Anyone care to recommend some specialty coffee-shops in Tehran? Or in Iran, more generally? That's the one thing I'm searching for when going to a new (big-ish) city, I've honestly stopped caring about museums, archaeological places or the like, I just want to go to the same specialty coffee shops to which I go here in Bucharest, to be surrounded by the same people I'm surrounded here in Bucharest while reading a book or a magazine. And to give something in return, for Athens I can heartily recommend Taf Coffee [1], and also MOTIV [2] just across the small street, and in Vienna I have a soft spot for CoffeePirates [3] [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23.730901,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOe9Nocsf5RkpYOL78HUJDTR_XdPL0_oHkQmZmg!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOe9Nocsf5RkpYOL78HUJDTR_XdPL0_oHkQmZmg%3Dw129-h86-k-no!7i3000!8i2000!4m7!3m6!1s0x14a1bd308088c6c3:0xd9bd84c06beb0e11!8m2!3d37.9835085!4d23.7308313!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F1wb446b6?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23.... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.7311781,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMDEV3QvektSjavYcOBN_mV5_UUi0QDomupTfet!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMDEV3QvektSjavYcOBN_mV5_UUi0QDomupTfet%3Dw86-h114-k-no!7i3468!8i4624!4m7!3m6!1s0x14a1bd30853fe373:0x5a8eabd0c6584239!8m2!3d37.9835526!4d23.7312089!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11c2q35mrb?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.73117... [3] https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,16.3513491,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipN1uanDNpk_U7irKABw71nSKXa6A8LoYEeUtViQ!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipN1uanDNpk_U7irKABw71nSKXa6A8LoYEeUtViQ%3Dw128-h86-k-no!7i1920!8i1282!4m7!3m6!1s0x476d07c12110afdd:0x7cd49b5c94bdccaf!8m2!3d48.2173845!4d16.3511695!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11gztqjy0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,...
- BowBun 1y ago
  Why do you prefer to spend time in the same setting with the same people when you are in a new place? Why not stay home?
  - Arainach 1y ago
    OP does not literally mean the same people but the same type of people. Having a familiar group with something in common is a great conversation starter and way to make new friends. This is similar to how you can visit a new area and stop by a brewery (if you like beer), a sports game (if you like sports), etc.
Conscat 1y ago
Not Iranian, but if I want plain tasty black coffee, I can grind, brew, and drink it topless at home. My favorite cafes in the bay area all have something more to offer me than decent plain coffee. I think this is just indicative of how the culture surrounding third places has changed.
- lxgr 1y ago
  One big advantage of cafes is that they sell coffee and exist pretty much everywhere. The same can't be said for my home.
readthenotes1 1y ago
Reminds of a conversation I overheard between two middle aged guys talking about different expensive watches... Veblan wrote about "conspicuous consumption" over 100 years ago. I see this as the same disease
canjobear 1y ago
Writing blog posts against people who are precious about their coffee is also a lifestyle signal.
- imnitwit 1y ago
  good one
tkzed49 1y ago
Seems like the same tired take on third wave coffee, without much specific to Iran. Some people like the flavor of coffee grown in different regions, just like tea or wine. If you want a classic espresso roast blend of whatever, I haven't been to a cafe that won't sell you that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- noirbot 1y ago
  And the usual retort you get if you point that out is "but this new fancy coffee tastes worse", which always strikes me as amusing coming from folks who minutes before were claiming it all tasted the same and mocking the idea of tasting notes being real. Having a preference for a traditional status quo blend is still a preference!
  - searealist 1y ago
    There are two axes here: - Beans - Roast level The variation from roasting is far greater than the variation from the beans, and all third-wave beans are lightly roasted. This results in a brew that is dominated by acids.
    - noirbot 1y ago
      I was with you up until "all third-wave beans are lightly roasted". I suppose it's literally true relative to old espresso roasts, but there's still plenty of third-wave roasts that are decently dark. Maybe not Folgers/Lavazza dark, but you can definitely find more oily/heavy roasts that aren't overly acidic. There's also a third axis in brew technique - most old-school espresso is only vaguely the same brew method as what you'd get at a third-wave shop where the newer machines have fairly precise temperature, flow, and pressure controls, as well as more consistent grinds with less fines.
      - searealist 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
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snyp 1y ago
The author just finds the process of ordering complicated because they do not know how to. I think there is opportunity here to make selecting the drink of your choice a better experience. There might also be space here for coffee discovery or exploration for the customer.
- hilsdev 1y ago
  If there’s an increasing number of options, isn’t it by definition becoming more complicated?
- noirbot 1y ago
  I mean, it's seldom that complicated even. They just went from having one choice of espresso to, likely, at most 3. The most fancy coffee shops I've ever been to usually don't have more than a couple espresso options dialed in at any given time. If you don't care, just pick the cheapest or ask for the person's favorite. I'm sure there is some influencer/performative aspect to this as well that the author is reacting to, but the complaint strikes me mostly as a "I was ok with the status quo, and I dislike that other people prefer things other than that". Having preferences and choices is not by default some sort of pretentious thing!
- lxgr 1y ago
  Yes, but why should everybody have to show the same level of care for everything they do/consume as aficionados? Just like it can be extremely fulfilling to build a PC from parts, compile your own Linux kernel, get an old car working again etc., it can be nice to have somebody else do all of that for you and focus on the details of life that you enjoy most.
  - Freedom2 1y ago
    They don't? I was in Iran recently for a business trip and I simply asked for my usual cappuccino one sugar at almost every cafe I went to and it was hassle-free experience. It's actually good to offer more options to invoke curiosity, but the old options are still there.
  - NoboruWataya 1y ago
shwin 1y ago
I think it’s actually a good thing that people are increasingly curious and informed about where the things they consume come from. Sure, some of it can be a front, but consumers get a choice to be more discriminating and demanding about where their consumption comes from, and that can (and has!) lead to better production practices; feels weird to complain about that.
- noirbot 1y ago
  This is also a huge part. A lot of the "look at this insane price for coffee" is because exploitative practices for centuries has led to people having price expectations for coffee that are unreasonable in a fair market. There's definitely crazy high end coffees that are $20 a cup for various reasons, but $6 pounds of coffee from the grocery store are also an anomaly.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
    Unfortunately most people would not want to pay market rates for coffee that is farmed by people paid living wages. Kona coffee is a good example of this. It runs about USD $25-$30/lb in bean form for actual Kona coffee (not blends)
    - noirbot 1y ago
      Sure, but that's essentially the thrust of the OP. "Look at these decadent vapid influencers drinking their expensive (but fairly priced) coffee. Why can't I just get basic cheap (exploitative wage based) coffee any more in this modern city? Surely they're the ones forsaking value and tradition." A lot of critiques of modern coffee are based in a sort of silent "but I got used to the benefits of imperial colonialism and exploitation. How dare these new people make me consider where my drinks are from and what should be paid for them." I'm certainly not claiming that's a conscious thing - status quo bias is a big thing here, but it's odd how often "paying a living wage" and "caring about sustainable farming" is decried as decadence and depravity that's destroying the old and more honorable ways of living.
arthurofbabylon 1y ago
> In Italy, ordering an espresso takes five seconds. Have you had espresso in Italy? By all measures, the worst coffee I have had anywhere in the world, on the level of instant coffee in 2010 (remember that?). I personally don’t complain when people emphasize the compelling story of their offerings – it typically coincides with a high-quality brew!
- Centigonal 1y ago
  I went to Rome in 2019 and all the coffee I had was pretty decent! It was all espresso, and a lot of Lavazza (not third wave local roaster stuff), but it was all pretty good.
- shaky-carrousel 1y ago
  I’m guessing you didn’t travel all across Italy tasting espresso to back up such a broad statement. I’d be surprised if you ventured much beyond a few tourist traps in Rome.
  - thenthenthen 1y ago
    I love LOVE the coffee culture in Italy, 1€ espresso’s at a standing bar?! Count me in!
- lxgr 1y ago
  That's in fact exactly what I love about espresso in Italy and some other European countries: It's ubiquitous, fast, cheap (even cheaper if you drink it standing up!), and as a result a commodity and not something pretentious. I also don't remember ever having had a bad cup of espresso in Italy. If it ever happens, I'll just walk a few steps down the street and chase it down with a decent or good one.
  - noirbot 1y ago
    But that is, in itself, a normalcy bias. I don't generally like Italian roast coffee. It's too oily and generally upsets my stomach. It's not a flavor or style I like in espresso. I'm not going to claim no one should like it - clearly people do, but if you don't like that, Italy is a really bad place to live because it's so orthodox about its espresso and doesn't support "pretentious" places that may serve something that doesn't taste "normal". Just because a specific style has been around for years doesn't mean it's the only valid style that's not "pretentious".
behnamoh 1y ago
> People are bored, insecure, or just looking for something to latch onto. So we pay more for a label that makes us feel seen. It’s not about taste—it’s about signaling. And cafés know that. They exploit it. Ruthlessly. This is a poor take on what's actually a rich cultural shift towards variety seeking. What's wrong with that? The author could go to a regular cafe and have the regular coffee they want, but some people want trying new things.
- lxgr 1y ago
  It can be frustrating for people that simply don't care for the variety and now have to make choices in a place where they used to be fine with an order of "one coffee, please". Personally (quantity over quality when it comes to coffee), as long as I can still do that and get a hot, caffeinated, sugar-free (in regions where that's the default) beverage, I don't mind.
  - mbac32768 1y ago
    one alcohol, please
    - perching_aix 1y ago
      One shot of Everclear coming right up!
    - markburns 1y ago
      > a refreshment, please > food or drink? > why do I need to specify. I've been out all day in the heat. Bring me a few refreshments.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - Nexxxeh 1y ago
      One shot of Smirnoff Red Label vodka (or UA/EU equivalent), as we don't have Everclear here.
  - 1y ago
meindnoch 1y ago
Funny how even a repressive theocracy can seem so familiar. I guess that's globalization for you.
curtisblaine 1y ago
It's not really hard to have a default coffee type + size and serve that when the client asks for a coffee with no specifications. I wonder why no fancy coffee place does that. I guess it has to do with that hostile strain of sales tactics where they screw with your instincts and blind spots to sell you things you don't really want. I'm growing more and more intolerant with that kind of tactics, because they're everywhere and you need to actively fight with them to avoid your money being essentially scammed out of your wallet. I wonder if there's something one can do to screw with them back.
- noirbot 1y ago
  Most fancy coffee shops do do that though. If you walk in and ask for a drip coffee or an espresso, especially if you just say "I want a basic espresso", you'll probably get what you want. I'm sure there's some places that would be annoying about it, but most specialty places deal with plenty of people coming in every day not used to ordering in specialty places. If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? If anything, it's more likely to work there than going to a multi-course restaurant and trying to order a hamburger. There are other businesses that serve a "no choices" need.
  - curtisblaine 1y ago
    Unfortunately that's not my experience. The places I've been just point you to the menu, which normally is quite complex and with many choices. > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find Doesn't have to be cheap, it has to be plain. Just the coffee that, in average, the average disinterested client would like. We had a similar concept - now almost disappeared - with wine. The wine of the house was an average non-fancy wine that you could drink with your dinner without spending time deciphering the wine list. > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? Because cities are migrating en masse to fancy shops. Selling lifestyle is apparently more profitable & glamorous, so everyone wants to be the fancy shop rather than the humble bar.
    - 1y ago
jabl 1y ago
Brings to mind the classic(?) Denis Leary skit: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE
- mock-possum 1y ago
  It’s crazy to me that he’s just making this shit up and people are laughing at it - it’s the same impulse that drives people to repost agitprop completely critically, without any thought for the accuracy of the content or the aim or the context or anything, really, aside from the like the way the idea of it makes them feel. Walk into literally any place in America that serves coffee, ask for ‘just coffee’ or ‘black coffee’ or ‘drip coffee’ or ‘house blend’ or however you want to say it, and get a hot cup of exactly that: ‘just coffee.’ It’s fun to spout a list of XYZ-achinos but why are people if that’s somehow accurate or insightful? He’s making shit up.
visarga 1y ago
[flagged]
- Samin100 1y ago
  I agree, I instantly recognized signature ChatGPT-isms. Once I realized it wasn’t written by a person, I stopped reading.
- Etheryte 1y ago
  I don't think the em dash is nearly as good of a tell as you think it is – largely because I use it all the time. Likewise for the single quote, they use it throughout so I'd wager it's either a stylistic choice or their blogging platform does that automatically.
  - sgt 1y ago
    That's exactly what a rogue LLM model would say! /s
- Centigonal 1y ago
  Not going to say it's definitely not ChatGPT-assisted, but you can see the author's editing process here: https://github.com/adelbordbari/adelbordbari.github.io/commits/77ec072d0cff15fc3f4151d6e450d76fdc6744d2/_etc/2025-04-16-coffee.md https://github.com/adelbordbari/adelbordbari.github.io/commi...
- jonas21 1y ago
  Or... perhaps they typed it in one of the many editors (Word, Google Docs, Notion, etc) which also substitute "—" for "--" and use smart quotes?
- Cpoll 1y ago
  OSX makes it easy to write em-dashes. It's much more annoying on Windows. I wonder if more innocuous assistants like Grammarly also insert them? Ditto the directional "smart quotes", OSX inserts them by default (and sometimes breaks stuff like pasting json into Slack). There certainly are a lot of them in the article.
Centigonal 1y ago
One thing the author fails to take note of here is that Iranians have historically been extremely precious about their bougie little drinks. From tea and coffee houses to summer cordials like sekanjabin, basil seed drinks, and sour cherry sharbat to the dozens of varieties of doogh to all the little fresh juice places in Tehran, getting way too into beverages is an enduring Iranian cultural tradition (albeit fancy coffee comes with an unusually high price tag).
- morkalork 1y ago
  Wow, so harsh! But also so true, not in Iran but in my city an Iranian café opened across the street from the fine arts museum and serves all sorts of drinks like hibiscus sharbat, khakshir. Very trendy, very bougie.
  - Centigonal 1y ago
    I mean it with love! I'm originally Iranian, and I may or may not be describing myself here. :) Also, I know exactly the place you're talking about and their drinks are great!
- NoboruWataya 1y ago
  I've always assumed this is due to them not drinking much alcohol as a culture. Alcohol occupies so much of our focus in the West - so much has been written about the nuances of whiskey, wine, beer, etc. It stands to reason that cultures that don't drink alcohol as much would get just as invested in the drinks they do consume.
  - ayuhito 1y ago
    I think it depends. Where I used to live in the Middle East, the culture was very tea (more specifically karak) centric for sure. But it wasn’t a hobby you get so deep into that you become very specific for the average person. You just drive to your regular place. There’s only one choice and that’s karak. You sip it in your car, chat with your buddies, and you drive off. Definitely do miss the late nights there. No alcohol, just tea and still an extremely social society.
perching_aix 1y ago
> When did getting a coffee turn into a whole performance? Literally every time I see or hear anything on the internet about coffee, it's some of the most pretentious and performative crap I've ever encountered. So I'd imagine a very long while ago.
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  To be fair, good coffee is actually really tasty and different varieties actually have different tastes. So, it’s true than there is a world of potential out of cheap pre-grinded over-roasted bought to be as cheap as possible coffee. The issue is that there is another world between that and the horribly pretentious and snobbish consumers buying incredibly overpriced cups from trendy places. But normal people who enjoy quality coffee do exist.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
vbo 1y ago
I think there may be more to overcomplicated brews than lifestyle or status. It's a desire to get technical in a world where so much of life has been automated away from the consumer's view or ability to affect it. Coffee is a way to tinker with something in the same way previous generations tinkered with their cars or radios or whatever. It's an outlet for creativity and technical skill building for those that engage in brewing. Coffee shops will sell rituals, status, prestige, sophistication or the appearance thereof. Same as every other business. But that's not to say the product can't be superior - it can. It also doesn't say that every product that makes use of those marketing techniques is superior; but even if it isn't, if the customer walks away happy, they must've done something right, right? Don't we do the same with the technology we're working on? How often is it truly better beyond any critique? People were getting stuff done even before our products were around with less fuss and a different set of problems. We do what we do to end up busy with stuff so we can do what we do all over again, don't we? I digress. It does get tiresome when everyone is trying to sell you an experience and it becomes disappointing when the selling of experiences becomes so commoditized, the thing being sold loses its credibility as something special on account of being sold as such. Is it a crisis of authenticity? To each, their own. I used to tinker with espresso based drinks, but I'm mostly over it. I've learned to discern (some) better coffee beans from others, but I mostly don't drink that - I can't justify paying that much for a coffee I brew myself and that I may botch out of being in a hurry. It's also a distraction that takes time I don't have anymore. But it was fun to explore for a while and I now own a very fancy looking espresso machine, grinder and all sorts of acccessories.
mppm 1y ago
1) Why is this even on HN? Some guy complains about third wave coffee on his trashy, possibly AI generated, blog. Very interesting. 2) Since people take this seriously for some reason: Fine coffee is neither a hallucination, nor a theater performance, nor a sign of ultimate decadence. Or at least no more so than fine tea and wine. Different producers, roasts and preparation methods give markedly different coffee with a lot of nuance that you can learn to discern and enjoy. Or not -- to each his own.
- NaOH 1y ago
  >Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mppm 1y ago
    This submission is not technically inappropriate and flagging it would be an abuse of that feature. It's just very low quality and very surprising that it made #1 on HN.
quantified 1y ago
I'm glad Yrgacheffe is available somewhere. It seems to have dried up in the USA. I wouldn't have gotten hooked on coffee without it.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
Wow. This is like complaining about going into my local pub for a beer and discovering they have a dozen taps. Well sure, different people like different things, and sometimes I might want a creamy stout, and sometimes a West Coast IPA, and sometimes a light lager on a hot summer day. I guess life was better for those behind the iron curtain that only had one brand?
- TacticalCoder 1y ago
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- smath 1y ago
  I think both extremes can be suboptimal (no choice and too much choice). See for example ‘the paradox of choice’ - research done by Barry Schwartz and later by Sheena iyengar https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice
  - refulgentis 1y ago
    I'm not sure this imagined scenario, where coffee shops ask where you want your beans from, would apply to this study: "displayed 24 jams in a busy supermarket for tasting...60% of customers stop[ped and tasted], 3% [made] a purchase."..."Next, 6 jam jars....[40% stopped, less than 60%], but...purchases went up [from 3%] to 30%." It reeks of the worst sins of early-TED-era social psychology experiments: tons of obvious confounders. For instance, 24 samples at a table that was 50% busier means I'm thinking I'll come back and wrap up my tryout next week or whenever: it's very busy and I can't afford 15 minutes to sit around trying to maintain tasting notes on something I didn't have intent to buy anyway -- if I did, I wouldn't be sampling! It also means less 1:1 salesmanship contact with the purveyor of samples, and 4x of much investment needed on their part.
    - xnzakg 1y ago
      It also depends on how popular the place is, and the customer demographic. Continuing with that example, if it's a small grocery store in a town with a population of a few thousand people, sure, there's definitely no point in having 24 different types of jam. However, if it's a store specializing in jam, in a large city, then having a larger selection makes sense, especially when you have someone working there who you can ask to recommend something. Sadly that usually also implies higher prices.
swagv 1y ago
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maxander 1y ago
The interesting thing about this blog post isn’t the point it makes (which was endlessly made about cafes in all blue-state U.S. cities in the 00s) but that it’s an Iranian writing in English, and thus for an Western audience, about Iranian culture. What is going on with that? I don’t even dare to speculate. But something more interesting than bougie coffeeshops, certainly.
- cyberlurker 1y ago
  I would like to hear more. Why is it more interesting? Is it really that rare for Iranians to write in English for Western audiences?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- imnitwit 1y ago
  xD ask me.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
smus 1y ago
So many straws were grasped at in the making of this article
486sx33 1y ago
I’d like an extra large “ayatollah is a phony, bring back the shah” with golden bells on
ribcage 1y ago
[dead]
pier25 1y ago
> You go to order a coffee, and the guy’s like, ‘From Kenyan farms or Brazil?’ Well Italy doesn't plant coffee so it must come from somewhere else after all. If you're not curious or don't care where it comes from just say that or pick one randomly.
dhendo1 1y ago
Interesting to see the same complaints I heard 20 years ago, but on the Internet this time instead of just in-person gripes
killerstorm 1y ago
Literally the opposite problem in Portugal: you go to a restaurant, food is good, you want to drink espresso in the end, the bring Delta's worst blend.
rad_gruchalski 1y ago
Life hack: go and ask for exactly what you want. I’d like a black coffee, don’t care, cheapest, to go. Any place they serving fancy coffee would have also your regular black filtered coffee. Ask for that.
pyfon 1y ago
BS. If you are into coffee you can taste different beans. Ironically other than Ethiopian I don't think the origin country itself makes much difference (?) but maybe the farm does and then how it was roasted and when. Most coffee shops I have been to (not Iran tho) you can order your espresso in 5 sec (after a queue perhaps) but if you want to pick a bean or get cold brew you can do that too. I'm surprised Iran isn't more into Turkish style coffee though (?)

137 points by imnitwit 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

>They’re selling a lifestyle. People eat up "lifestyle" brand stuff like crazy. I suspect people just want something special in their daily lives. I get that. I assume it's appealing to sellers too because it inspires some potential level of loyalty and uniqueness when it comes to their products where otherwise it is "just coffee". Granted I say that while I sip my Kirkland coffee here at my desk, amused that what was once a sort of semi generic store brand, Kirkland now has it's own apparel with its brand on it and Costco fans love it. I guess we can find something special everywhere.

bluedino 1y ago
I was on a coffee shop kick for...15 years? And then I just quit. I'm not sure if was the price, waiting in line, or the quality going down since so many places popped up or what. But I just have zero interest in buying a coffee. I drink generic stuff I make at home. Or I just go without. Oddly around the same time I quit drinking sodas.
- rdtsc 1y ago
  I am kind of the same. I will support local coffee shops frequently but I am not good enough to notice the super fine flavor profiles or remember them. They all taste “yummy” including the stuff I grind and brew at home or from Costco.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Yep it’s all about justifying $6-8 or more for a freaking cup of coffee. Even McDonald’s got in on it. Used to pay about $1 for a drip-brewed cup of coffee, now it’s “McCafe” and closer to $5. I drink Folgers and that’s good enough.
- antasvara 1y ago
  Just out of curiosity, is there nothing that you have preferences about? Because I think it's easy to look at someone else's hobby and reflexively say that they're overpaying for something. For example, I can't personally fathom paying 4k for a gaming PC. 60 vs 40 frames per second doesn't "matter" to me in any meaningful sense. That being said, I totally get why other people care. If gaming is the thing you really enjoy, I can see why you might want the faster framerate. If you exclusively play super demanding games, I can see wanting decreased loading times and better graphics. I guess the point I'm making is it's totally fine to drink your Folgers and be fine with that. I do also think that there are "overpriced" coffee places that aren't offering meaningfully better quality and are surviving based on branding. But I think it's okay to spend more for things that you like more. If might be "just a cup of coffee" to you, but reflect and consider what your "cup of coffee" is. In my opinion, life is more fun when we can enjoy the variety that it has to offer and let others do the same.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Oh sure, I have no objection to people doing it, enough people like Starbucks coffee to keep them in business and employing people and paying taxes so it's all good in that sense. I just don't partake. Also if I like something (e.g. Whiskey) I try to find the bargain values that are still good (e.g. Evan Williams White Label 100 Proof) rather than spending a lot more on a bottle that's marginally (if at all) better but has a name with more cachet.
- elijaht 1y ago
  I see a medium coffee in the McDonald’s app for $1.79. What does it cost near you?
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Interesting, last time I was at Mc Donald’s brewed coffee didn’t seem to be on the menu. I had an Americano which was the closest thing to what I really wanted. I very rarely eat there anymore so not sure I’ll have a chance to verify.

Festro 1y ago

Article posits this argument: "They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle." Then says of the old coffee "Coffee in Iran isn’t new—we were drinking it long before tea took over. Back in the Safavid era, coffeehouses were where people gathered for stories, debates, and a hit of something strong." - this is a lifestyle related to coffee. And says about the new coffee "Walk in, and the menu reads like a novel: “Ethiopian Yirgacheffe with hints of jasmine and citrus.”" - this is the literal attributes of coffee, origin and flavour profile. I'm sorry, but coffee is now, more than ever, about the coffee. People who enjoy coffee then make it a part of their lifestyle. I'd love to hear more about the older Iranian coffee culture, that sounds wonderfully romantic. It's a pattern across the world that we've lost access to third spaces as everything gains a capitalised cost. And as media has intensified and technology poked into every waking moment we're less likely to gather amongst our community in those spaces to just sit and listen anymore. I think we've evolved new ways of doing things, like how we enjoy our newfound international access to coffee varietals but it's good to address what we've lost in doing so. This article is a bit whiny about the new, and doesn't talk enough about the qualities of the old. There's a good point to be made, but the article makes it poorly.

crazygringo 1y ago
Seriously. This article seems to reveal much more about the author than about coffee. I can't speak about Iran, but getting into coffee is no different from getting into pie-making, or sourdough, or wine, or cocktail-making. They write: > Coffee used to be fuel. Now it’s a lifestyle accessory. I think this is the quote that reveals everything. People don't want just "fuel" anymore. They want something that actually tastes good. But for some reason the author thinks it's all about marketing, insecurity, and influencers. Can't the author just let people enjoy what they like? Why does it bother the author so much? Why can't they even imagine it might just be because the coffee tastes better, and it's a relatively inexpensive and fun hobby if you want to get into it? Why do they have to judge people for it instead?
visarga 1y ago
> "They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle." I like the emphatic style of GPT-4o lately. I can spot it from a mile.

paganel 1y ago

Anyone care to recommend some specialty coffee-shops in Tehran? Or in Iran, more generally? That's the one thing I'm searching for when going to a new (big-ish) city, I've honestly stopped caring about museums, archaeological places or the like, I just want to go to the same specialty coffee shops to which I go here in Bucharest, to be surrounded by the same people I'm surrounded here in Bucharest while reading a book or a magazine. And to give something in return, for Athens I can heartily recommend Taf Coffee [1], and also MOTIV [2] just across the small street, and in Vienna I have a soft spot for CoffeePirates [3] [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23.730901,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOe9Nocsf5RkpYOL78HUJDTR_XdPL0_oHkQmZmg!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOe9Nocsf5RkpYOL78HUJDTR_XdPL0_oHkQmZmg%3Dw129-h86-k-no!7i3000!8i2000!4m7!3m6!1s0x14a1bd308088c6c3:0xd9bd84c06beb0e11!8m2!3d37.9835085!4d23.7308313!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F1wb446b6?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23.... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.7311781,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMDEV3QvektSjavYcOBN_mV5_UUi0QDomupTfet!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMDEV3QvektSjavYcOBN_mV5_UUi0QDomupTfet%3Dw86-h114-k-no!7i3468!8i4624!4m7!3m6!1s0x14a1bd30853fe373:0x5a8eabd0c6584239!8m2!3d37.9835526!4d23.7312089!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11c2q35mrb?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.73117... [3] https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,16.3513491,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipN1uanDNpk_U7irKABw71nSKXa6A8LoYEeUtViQ!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipN1uanDNpk_U7irKABw71nSKXa6A8LoYEeUtViQ%3Dw128-h86-k-no!7i1920!8i1282!4m7!3m6!1s0x476d07c12110afdd:0x7cd49b5c94bdccaf!8m2!3d48.2173845!4d16.3511695!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11gztqjy0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,...

BowBun 1y ago
Why do you prefer to spend time in the same setting with the same people when you are in a new place? Why not stay home?
- Arainach 1y ago
  OP does not literally mean the same people but the same type of people. Having a familiar group with something in common is a great conversation starter and way to make new friends. This is similar to how you can visit a new area and stop by a brewery (if you like beer), a sports game (if you like sports), etc.

Conscat 1y ago

Not Iranian, but if I want plain tasty black coffee, I can grind, brew, and drink it topless at home. My favorite cafes in the bay area all have something more to offer me than decent plain coffee. I think this is just indicative of how the culture surrounding third places has changed.

lxgr 1y ago
One big advantage of cafes is that they sell coffee and exist pretty much everywhere. The same can't be said for my home.

readthenotes1 1y ago

Reminds of a conversation I overheard between two middle aged guys talking about different expensive watches... Veblan wrote about "conspicuous consumption" over 100 years ago. I see this as the same disease

canjobear 1y ago

Writing blog posts against people who are precious about their coffee is also a lifestyle signal.

imnitwit 1y ago
good one

tkzed49 1y ago

Seems like the same tired take on third wave coffee, without much specific to Iran. Some people like the flavor of coffee grown in different regions, just like tea or wine. If you want a classic espresso roast blend of whatever, I haven't been to a cafe that won't sell you that.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
noirbot 1y ago
And the usual retort you get if you point that out is "but this new fancy coffee tastes worse", which always strikes me as amusing coming from folks who minutes before were claiming it all tasted the same and mocking the idea of tasting notes being real. Having a preference for a traditional status quo blend is still a preference!
- searealist 1y ago
  There are two axes here: - Beans - Roast level The variation from roasting is far greater than the variation from the beans, and all third-wave beans are lightly roasted. This results in a brew that is dominated by acids.
  - noirbot 1y ago
    I was with you up until "all third-wave beans are lightly roasted". I suppose it's literally true relative to old espresso roasts, but there's still plenty of third-wave roasts that are decently dark. Maybe not Folgers/Lavazza dark, but you can definitely find more oily/heavy roasts that aren't overly acidic. There's also a third axis in brew technique - most old-school espresso is only vaguely the same brew method as what you'd get at a third-wave shop where the newer machines have fairly precise temperature, flow, and pressure controls, as well as more consistent grinds with less fines.
    - searealist 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

snyp 1y ago

The author just finds the process of ordering complicated because they do not know how to. I think there is opportunity here to make selecting the drink of your choice a better experience. There might also be space here for coffee discovery or exploration for the customer.

hilsdev 1y ago
If there’s an increasing number of options, isn’t it by definition becoming more complicated?
noirbot 1y ago
I mean, it's seldom that complicated even. They just went from having one choice of espresso to, likely, at most 3. The most fancy coffee shops I've ever been to usually don't have more than a couple espresso options dialed in at any given time. If you don't care, just pick the cheapest or ask for the person's favorite. I'm sure there is some influencer/performative aspect to this as well that the author is reacting to, but the complaint strikes me mostly as a "I was ok with the status quo, and I dislike that other people prefer things other than that". Having preferences and choices is not by default some sort of pretentious thing!
lxgr 1y ago
Yes, but why should everybody have to show the same level of care for everything they do/consume as aficionados? Just like it can be extremely fulfilling to build a PC from parts, compile your own Linux kernel, get an old car working again etc., it can be nice to have somebody else do all of that for you and focus on the details of life that you enjoy most.
- Freedom2 1y ago
  They don't? I was in Iran recently for a business trip and I simply asked for my usual cappuccino one sugar at almost every cafe I went to and it was hassle-free experience. It's actually good to offer more options to invoke curiosity, but the old options are still there.
- NoboruWataya 1y ago

shwin 1y ago

I think it’s actually a good thing that people are increasingly curious and informed about where the things they consume come from. Sure, some of it can be a front, but consumers get a choice to be more discriminating and demanding about where their consumption comes from, and that can (and has!) lead to better production practices; feels weird to complain about that.

noirbot 1y ago
This is also a huge part. A lot of the "look at this insane price for coffee" is because exploitative practices for centuries has led to people having price expectations for coffee that are unreasonable in a fair market. There's definitely crazy high end coffees that are $20 a cup for various reasons, but $6 pounds of coffee from the grocery store are also an anomaly.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
  Unfortunately most people would not want to pay market rates for coffee that is farmed by people paid living wages. Kona coffee is a good example of this. It runs about USD $25-$30/lb in bean form for actual Kona coffee (not blends)
  - noirbot 1y ago
    Sure, but that's essentially the thrust of the OP. "Look at these decadent vapid influencers drinking their expensive (but fairly priced) coffee. Why can't I just get basic cheap (exploitative wage based) coffee any more in this modern city? Surely they're the ones forsaking value and tradition." A lot of critiques of modern coffee are based in a sort of silent "but I got used to the benefits of imperial colonialism and exploitation. How dare these new people make me consider where my drinks are from and what should be paid for them." I'm certainly not claiming that's a conscious thing - status quo bias is a big thing here, but it's odd how often "paying a living wage" and "caring about sustainable farming" is decried as decadence and depravity that's destroying the old and more honorable ways of living.

arthurofbabylon 1y ago

> In Italy, ordering an espresso takes five seconds. Have you had espresso in Italy? By all measures, the worst coffee I have had anywhere in the world, on the level of instant coffee in 2010 (remember that?). I personally don’t complain when people emphasize the compelling story of their offerings – it typically coincides with a high-quality brew!

Centigonal 1y ago
I went to Rome in 2019 and all the coffee I had was pretty decent! It was all espresso, and a lot of Lavazza (not third wave local roaster stuff), but it was all pretty good.
shaky-carrousel 1y ago
I’m guessing you didn’t travel all across Italy tasting espresso to back up such a broad statement. I’d be surprised if you ventured much beyond a few tourist traps in Rome.
- thenthenthen 1y ago
  I love LOVE the coffee culture in Italy, 1€ espresso’s at a standing bar?! Count me in!
lxgr 1y ago
That's in fact exactly what I love about espresso in Italy and some other European countries: It's ubiquitous, fast, cheap (even cheaper if you drink it standing up!), and as a result a commodity and not something pretentious. I also don't remember ever having had a bad cup of espresso in Italy. If it ever happens, I'll just walk a few steps down the street and chase it down with a decent or good one.
- noirbot 1y ago
  But that is, in itself, a normalcy bias. I don't generally like Italian roast coffee. It's too oily and generally upsets my stomach. It's not a flavor or style I like in espresso. I'm not going to claim no one should like it - clearly people do, but if you don't like that, Italy is a really bad place to live because it's so orthodox about its espresso and doesn't support "pretentious" places that may serve something that doesn't taste "normal". Just because a specific style has been around for years doesn't mean it's the only valid style that's not "pretentious".

behnamoh 1y ago

> People are bored, insecure, or just looking for something to latch onto. So we pay more for a label that makes us feel seen. It’s not about taste—it’s about signaling. And cafés know that. They exploit it. Ruthlessly. This is a poor take on what's actually a rich cultural shift towards variety seeking. What's wrong with that? The author could go to a regular cafe and have the regular coffee they want, but some people want trying new things.

lxgr 1y ago
It can be frustrating for people that simply don't care for the variety and now have to make choices in a place where they used to be fine with an order of "one coffee, please". Personally (quantity over quality when it comes to coffee), as long as I can still do that and get a hot, caffeinated, sugar-free (in regions where that's the default) beverage, I don't mind.
- mbac32768 1y ago
  one alcohol, please
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    One shot of Everclear coming right up!
  - markburns 1y ago
    > a refreshment, please > food or drink? > why do I need to specify. I've been out all day in the heat. Bring me a few refreshments.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - Nexxxeh 1y ago
    One shot of Smirnoff Red Label vodka (or UA/EU equivalent), as we don't have Everclear here.
- 1y ago

meindnoch 1y ago

Funny how even a repressive theocracy can seem so familiar. I guess that's globalization for you.

curtisblaine 1y ago

It's not really hard to have a default coffee type + size and serve that when the client asks for a coffee with no specifications. I wonder why no fancy coffee place does that. I guess it has to do with that hostile strain of sales tactics where they screw with your instincts and blind spots to sell you things you don't really want. I'm growing more and more intolerant with that kind of tactics, because they're everywhere and you need to actively fight with them to avoid your money being essentially scammed out of your wallet. I wonder if there's something one can do to screw with them back.

noirbot 1y ago
Most fancy coffee shops do do that though. If you walk in and ask for a drip coffee or an espresso, especially if you just say "I want a basic espresso", you'll probably get what you want. I'm sure there's some places that would be annoying about it, but most specialty places deal with plenty of people coming in every day not used to ordering in specialty places. If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? If anything, it's more likely to work there than going to a multi-course restaurant and trying to order a hamburger. There are other businesses that serve a "no choices" need.
- curtisblaine 1y ago
  Unfortunately that's not my experience. The places I've been just point you to the menu, which normally is quite complex and with many choices. > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find Doesn't have to be cheap, it has to be plain. Just the coffee that, in average, the average disinterested client would like. We had a similar concept - now almost disappeared - with wine. The wine of the house was an average non-fancy wine that you could drink with your dinner without spending time deciphering the wine list. > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? Because cities are migrating en masse to fancy shops. Selling lifestyle is apparently more profitable & glamorous, so everyone wants to be the fancy shop rather than the humble bar.
  - 1y ago

jabl 1y ago

Brings to mind the classic(?) Denis Leary skit: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE

mock-possum 1y ago
It’s crazy to me that he’s just making this shit up and people are laughing at it - it’s the same impulse that drives people to repost agitprop completely critically, without any thought for the accuracy of the content or the aim or the context or anything, really, aside from the like the way the idea of it makes them feel. Walk into literally any place in America that serves coffee, ask for ‘just coffee’ or ‘black coffee’ or ‘drip coffee’ or ‘house blend’ or however you want to say it, and get a hot cup of exactly that: ‘just coffee.’ It’s fun to spout a list of XYZ-achinos but why are people if that’s somehow accurate or insightful? He’s making shit up.

visarga 1y ago

[flagged]

Samin100 1y ago
I agree, I instantly recognized signature ChatGPT-isms. Once I realized it wasn’t written by a person, I stopped reading.
Etheryte 1y ago
I don't think the em dash is nearly as good of a tell as you think it is – largely because I use it all the time. Likewise for the single quote, they use it throughout so I'd wager it's either a stylistic choice or their blogging platform does that automatically.
- sgt 1y ago
  That's exactly what a rogue LLM model would say! /s
Centigonal 1y ago
Not going to say it's definitely not ChatGPT-assisted, but you can see the author's editing process here: https://github.com/adelbordbari/adelbordbari.github.io/commits/77ec072d0cff15fc3f4151d6e450d76fdc6744d2/_etc/2025-04-16-coffee.md https://github.com/adelbordbari/adelbordbari.github.io/commi...
jonas21 1y ago
Or... perhaps they typed it in one of the many editors (Word, Google Docs, Notion, etc) which also substitute "—" for "--" and use smart quotes?
Cpoll 1y ago
OSX makes it easy to write em-dashes. It's much more annoying on Windows. I wonder if more innocuous assistants like Grammarly also insert them? Ditto the directional "smart quotes", OSX inserts them by default (and sometimes breaks stuff like pasting json into Slack). There certainly are a lot of them in the article.

Centigonal 1y ago

One thing the author fails to take note of here is that Iranians have historically been extremely precious about their bougie little drinks. From tea and coffee houses to summer cordials like sekanjabin, basil seed drinks, and sour cherry sharbat to the dozens of varieties of doogh to all the little fresh juice places in Tehran, getting way too into beverages is an enduring Iranian cultural tradition (albeit fancy coffee comes with an unusually high price tag).

morkalork 1y ago
Wow, so harsh! But also so true, not in Iran but in my city an Iranian café opened across the street from the fine arts museum and serves all sorts of drinks like hibiscus sharbat, khakshir. Very trendy, very bougie.
- Centigonal 1y ago
  I mean it with love! I'm originally Iranian, and I may or may not be describing myself here. :) Also, I know exactly the place you're talking about and their drinks are great!
NoboruWataya 1y ago
I've always assumed this is due to them not drinking much alcohol as a culture. Alcohol occupies so much of our focus in the West - so much has been written about the nuances of whiskey, wine, beer, etc. It stands to reason that cultures that don't drink alcohol as much would get just as invested in the drinks they do consume.
- ayuhito 1y ago
  I think it depends. Where I used to live in the Middle East, the culture was very tea (more specifically karak) centric for sure. But it wasn’t a hobby you get so deep into that you become very specific for the average person. You just drive to your regular place. There’s only one choice and that’s karak. You sip it in your car, chat with your buddies, and you drive off. Definitely do miss the late nights there. No alcohol, just tea and still an extremely social society.

perching_aix 1y ago

> When did getting a coffee turn into a whole performance? Literally every time I see or hear anything on the internet about coffee, it's some of the most pretentious and performative crap I've ever encountered. So I'd imagine a very long while ago.

StopDisinfo910 1y ago
To be fair, good coffee is actually really tasty and different varieties actually have different tastes. So, it’s true than there is a world of potential out of cheap pre-grinded over-roasted bought to be as cheap as possible coffee. The issue is that there is another world between that and the horribly pretentious and snobbish consumers buying incredibly overpriced cups from trendy places. But normal people who enjoy quality coffee do exist.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

vbo 1y ago

I think there may be more to overcomplicated brews than lifestyle or status. It's a desire to get technical in a world where so much of life has been automated away from the consumer's view or ability to affect it. Coffee is a way to tinker with something in the same way previous generations tinkered with their cars or radios or whatever. It's an outlet for creativity and technical skill building for those that engage in brewing. Coffee shops will sell rituals, status, prestige, sophistication or the appearance thereof. Same as every other business. But that's not to say the product can't be superior - it can. It also doesn't say that every product that makes use of those marketing techniques is superior; but even if it isn't, if the customer walks away happy, they must've done something right, right? Don't we do the same with the technology we're working on? How often is it truly better beyond any critique? People were getting stuff done even before our products were around with less fuss and a different set of problems. We do what we do to end up busy with stuff so we can do what we do all over again, don't we? I digress. It does get tiresome when everyone is trying to sell you an experience and it becomes disappointing when the selling of experiences becomes so commoditized, the thing being sold loses its credibility as something special on account of being sold as such. Is it a crisis of authenticity? To each, their own. I used to tinker with espresso based drinks, but I'm mostly over it. I've learned to discern (some) better coffee beans from others, but I mostly don't drink that - I can't justify paying that much for a coffee I brew myself and that I may botch out of being in a hurry. It's also a distraction that takes time I don't have anymore. But it was fun to explore for a while and I now own a very fancy looking espresso machine, grinder and all sorts of acccessories.

mppm 1y ago

1) Why is this even on HN? Some guy complains about third wave coffee on his trashy, possibly AI generated, blog. Very interesting. 2) Since people take this seriously for some reason: Fine coffee is neither a hallucination, nor a theater performance, nor a sign of ultimate decadence. Or at least no more so than fine tea and wine. Different producers, roasts and preparation methods give markedly different coffee with a lot of nuance that you can learn to discern and enjoy. Or not -- to each his own.

NaOH 1y ago
>Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mppm 1y ago
  This submission is not technically inappropriate and flagging it would be an abuse of that feature. It's just very low quality and very surprising that it made #1 on HN.

quantified 1y ago

I'm glad Yrgacheffe is available somewhere. It seems to have dried up in the USA. I wouldn't have gotten hooked on coffee without it.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago

Wow. This is like complaining about going into my local pub for a beer and discovering they have a dozen taps. Well sure, different people like different things, and sometimes I might want a creamy stout, and sometimes a West Coast IPA, and sometimes a light lager on a hot summer day. I guess life was better for those behind the iron curtain that only had one brand?

TacticalCoder 1y ago
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smath 1y ago
I think both extremes can be suboptimal (no choice and too much choice). See for example ‘the paradox of choice’ - research done by Barry Schwartz and later by Sheena iyengar https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice
- refulgentis 1y ago
  I'm not sure this imagined scenario, where coffee shops ask where you want your beans from, would apply to this study: "displayed 24 jams in a busy supermarket for tasting...60% of customers stop[ped and tasted], 3% [made] a purchase."..."Next, 6 jam jars....[40% stopped, less than 60%], but...purchases went up [from 3%] to 30%." It reeks of the worst sins of early-TED-era social psychology experiments: tons of obvious confounders. For instance, 24 samples at a table that was 50% busier means I'm thinking I'll come back and wrap up my tryout next week or whenever: it's very busy and I can't afford 15 minutes to sit around trying to maintain tasting notes on something I didn't have intent to buy anyway -- if I did, I wouldn't be sampling! It also means less 1:1 salesmanship contact with the purveyor of samples, and 4x of much investment needed on their part.
  - xnzakg 1y ago
    It also depends on how popular the place is, and the customer demographic. Continuing with that example, if it's a small grocery store in a town with a population of a few thousand people, sure, there's definitely no point in having 24 different types of jam. However, if it's a store specializing in jam, in a large city, then having a larger selection makes sense, especially when you have someone working there who you can ask to recommend something. Sadly that usually also implies higher prices.

swagv 1y ago

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maxander 1y ago

The interesting thing about this blog post isn’t the point it makes (which was endlessly made about cafes in all blue-state U.S. cities in the 00s) but that it’s an Iranian writing in English, and thus for an Western audience, about Iranian culture. What is going on with that? I don’t even dare to speculate. But something more interesting than bougie coffeeshops, certainly.

cyberlurker 1y ago
I would like to hear more. Why is it more interesting? Is it really that rare for Iranians to write in English for Western audiences?
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imnitwit 1y ago
xD ask me.

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smus 1y ago

So many straws were grasped at in the making of this article

486sx33 1y ago

I’d like an extra large “ayatollah is a phony, bring back the shah” with golden bells on

ribcage 1y ago

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pier25 1y ago

> You go to order a coffee, and the guy’s like, ‘From Kenyan farms or Brazil?’ Well Italy doesn't plant coffee so it must come from somewhere else after all. If you're not curious or don't care where it comes from just say that or pick one randomly.

dhendo1 1y ago

Interesting to see the same complaints I heard 20 years ago, but on the Internet this time instead of just in-person gripes

killerstorm 1y ago

Literally the opposite problem in Portugal: you go to a restaurant, food is good, you want to drink espresso in the end, the bring Delta's worst blend.

rad_gruchalski 1y ago

Life hack: go and ask for exactly what you want. I’d like a black coffee, don’t care, cheapest, to go. Any place they serving fancy coffee would have also your regular black filtered coffee. Ask for that.

pyfon 1y ago

BS. If you are into coffee you can taste different beans. Ironically other than Ethiopian I don't think the origin country itself makes much difference (?) but maybe the farm does and then how it was roasted and when. Most coffee shops I have been to (not Iran tho) you can order your espresso in 5 sec (after a queue perhaps) but if you want to pick a bean or get cold brew you can do that too. I'm surprised Iran isn't more into Turkish style coffee though (?)