12 ms·
DiceDB
- bdcravens 2y agoIs there a single sentence anywhere that describes what it actually is?
- rvnx 2y agoA Redis-inspired server in Go
- adhamsalama 2y agoCan't wait to feel the impact of garbage collection in my fast cache!
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoWe had a similar thought, but it is not as bad as we think. We have the benchmarks, and we will be sharing the numbers in subsequent releases. But, there is still a chance that I may come to bite us and limit us to a smaller scale, and we are ready for it.
- raggi 2y agoVertical scaling this language also gets into painful territory quite often, I’ve had to workaround this problem before but never with a thing that felt like this: https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/blob/main/syncs/shardvalue_go.go https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/blob/main/syncs/shard...
- _bin_ 2y agoit might help to add 99th percentile numbers to the landing page; would do a better job of showing GC impact.
- ganarajpr 2y agoWhy are you guys building Yet Another DB ? Not trying to dissuade you, but what are you trying to solve that the plethora of DB's currently in market in the same space have not solved ? This should be highlighted in your landing page and since your primary audience is other dev's ( tough-est crowd to sell ), be very specific on what value your product brings over the other choices.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoNope. it started as Redis clone. We are on a different trajectory now. Chasing different goals.
- ekianjo 2y agoseems like a key store, with an ability to watch/subscribe to monitor for the change of values in real time
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoYes. With DiceDB clients can "WATCH" the output of the commands and upon the change in data, the resultset are streamed to the subscribers.
- mrbluecoat 2y ago"A key store, with an ability to watch/subscribe to monitor for the change of values in real time." Should be the first sentence on their website and repo.
- bdcravens 2y agoEven clicking through to the Github, after reading the "What is DiceDB?", I'm still not very clear. It feels more like marketing than information. "What is DiceDB? DiceDB is an open-source, fast, reactive, in-memory database optimized for modern hardware. Commonly used as a cache, it offers a familiar interface while enabling real-time data updates through query subscriptions. It delivers higher throughput and lower median latencies, making it ideal for modern workloads."
- siddharthgoel88 2y agoDrop in replacement of Redis.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoNope. We are not redis compliant.
- DrammBA 2y agoI've seen this more and more with software landing pages, they are somehow so deep into developing/marketing that they totally forget to say what the thing actually is or does, that's why you show it to family and friends first to get some fresh eyes before publishing the site.
- lucianbr 2y agoIn a similar vein, lots of software is Mac-only, but omits to say this anywehere. You just get to the downloads page and see that there are only mac packages. As if nobody ever uses anything else.
- threatripper 2y agoWhy should they care about non-users. Offering our even mentioning choice only creates uncertainty and confusion in potential customers.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y agoHow hard is it to add two sentences that says only macOS is supported now and in the near future? I’d rather do that than annoy future potential customers who might have a Mac or plan to get one at some point
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lucianbr 2y agoNo. I had the exact same problem. Feels arrogant. "Of course you already know what this is, how could you not?"
- goodpoint 2y agoThe video is also advertisement rather than a real thing.
- johnisgood 2y agoLooks like a Redis clone. The benchmarks compare it to Redis. Description from GitHub: > DiceDB is an open-source, fast, reactive, in-memory database optimized for modern hardware. Commonly used as a cache, it offers a familiar interface while enabling real-time data updates through query subscriptions. It delivers higher throughput and lower median latencies, making it ideal for modern workloads.
- pcthrowaway 2y agoNot 100% a Redis clone, but the API appears to be very similar to Redis of 10 years ago, with some additions that Redis doesn't have. See the list of commands: https://dicedb.io/get-started/installation/ https://dicedb.io/get-started/installation/
- johnisgood 2y ago"clone" was not the right term, maybe Redis-look-alike, or something along those lines, something that can be compared to Redis, at least.
- jlengrand 2y agoI picked that up purely because of the logo / website palette / name choice combinations. Interestingly, not sure it's a good thing.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoArpit here. DiceDB is an in-memory database that is also reactive. So, instead of polling the database for changes, the database pushes the resultset if you subscribe to it. We have a similar set of commands as Redis, but are not Redis-compliant.
- Apofis 2y agoQuestion, how does DiceDB differ from Redis pub/sub? https://redis.io/docs/latest/develop/interact/pubsub/ https://redis.io/docs/latest/develop/interact/pubsub/
- remram 2y agoThis is a lot clearer than any information I found anywhere else. There wasn't any room on your website, README, or docs for this summary?
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoIt is right there on the landing page. But, let me highlight it a bit.
- dagss 2y agoIMO, replace "More than a Cache. Smarter than a Database." with an actual description. The saying is cute but does not really convey information the reader is after. And that spot is where you want people to immediately understand what it is.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoI changed that :) now the value proposition is right at the top.
- dagss 2y agoStill not clear to me what it is. Only the features it has, without knowing what it is. Like, imagine a page that only said "SuperTransport -- 0 to 100 in 5 seconds", but it is not clear for the reader if it is a car or a horse or a plane or a parcel service... ... and the reader has to go and guess "hmm, guess due to the acceleration it is probably a car or a motorbike -- wonder of it is for sale or for rent?". Just put "fast on premise key/value database" in the big font that was there -- if that is what it is. That is purely a guess from me, no idea if that is what it is.
- remram 2y agoThe docs do, the site is useless. > DiceDB is an open-source, fast, reactive, in-memory database optimized for modern hardware. A Redis-like database with a Redis-like interface. No info about drop-in compatibility, I assume no.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoDiceDB is an in-memory, multi-threaded key-value DBMS that supports the Redis protocol. It’s written in Go.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agonope. We do not support Redis protocol :)
- spiderfarmer 2y agoDid you remove support? Cause Google found mentions of it on your website.
- ahazred8ta 2y agoHeh. Redis protocol support is still listed on their Linkedin. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22DiceDB%22%20%22supports%20the%20Redis%20protocol%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22DiceDB%22%20%22supports%2...
- datadeft 2y agoIs this suffering from the same problems like Redis when trying to horizontally scale?
- weekendcode 2y agoI guess yes.
- DrammBA 2y agoI love the "Follow on twitter" link with the old logo and everything, they probably used a template that hasn't been updated recently but I'm choosing to believe it's actually a subtle sign of protest or resistance.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoI prefer that over X icon.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoJust use Bluesky. It’s the better middle finger.
- remram 2y agoThis seems orders of magnitude slower than Nubmq which was posted yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43371097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43371097
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoDifferent tool. I metrics I am optimizing for are different hence wrote a separate utility. May not be the most optimized one. But I am usign this to measure all things DiceDB and will be using this to optimize DiceDB further. ref: https://github.com/DiceDB/membench https://github.com/DiceDB/membench
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- theverg 2y ago[flagged]
- dagss 2y agoI am not sure if this is satire or not...
- alexey-salmin 2y ago| Metric | DiceDB | Redis | | -------------------- | -------- | -------- | | Throughput (ops/sec) | 15655 | 12267 | | GET p50 (ms) | 0.227327 | 0.270335 | | GET p90 (ms) | 0.337919 | 0.329727 | | SET p50 (ms) | 0.230399 | 0.272383 | | SET p90 (ms) | 0.339967 | 0.331775 | UPD Nevermind, I didn't have my eyes open. Sorry for the confusion. Something I still fail to understand is where you can actually spend 20ms while answering a GET request in a RAM keyvalue storage (unless you implement it in Java). I never gained much experience with existing opensource implementations, but when I was building proprietary solutions at my previous workplace, the in-memory response time was measured in tens-hundreds of microseconds. The lower bound of latency is mostly defined by syscalls so using io_uring should in theory result in even better timings, even though I never got to try it in production. If you read from nvme AND also do the erasure-recovery across 6 nodes (lrc-12-2-2) then yes, you got into tens of milliseconds. But seeing these numbers for a single node RAM DB just doesn't make sense and I'm surprised everyone treats them as normal. Does anyone has experience with low-latency high-throughput opensource keyvalue storages? Any specific implementation to recommend?
- davekeck 2y ago> Something I still fail to understand is where you can actually spend 20ms Aren’t these numbers .2 ms, ie 200 microseconds?
- Kerbonut 2y agoLooks like your units are in ms, so 0.20 ms.
- alexey-salmin 2y agooh thank you, it's just me being blind
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ac130kz 2y agoAny reason to use this over Valkey, which is now faster than Redis and community driven? Genuinely interested.
- hp77 2y agoDragonflyDB is also in that race, isn't it?
- ac130kz 2y agoFrom what I looked at in the past, they seem better on paper by comparing themselves to a very old version of Redis in a rigged scenario (no clustering or multithreading applied despite Drangonfly getting multithreading enabled), and they are a lot worse in terms of code updates. Maybe that's different today, but I'm more keen on using Valkey.
- hp77 2y agoDoes Redis support multithreading? Doesn't it use a single-threaded event loop, while DragonflyDB basic version is with multithreading enabled and shared-nothing architecture. Also I found this latest comparison between Valkey and DragonflyDB : https://www.dragonflydb.io/blog/dragonfly-vs-valkey-benchmark-on-google-cloud https://www.dragonflydb.io/blog/dragonfly-vs-valkey-benchmar...
- ac130kz 2y agoIO multithreading is still not fully there, there were significant improvements within the first couple of iterations, hopefully, it will improve further. I see that Dragonfly uses iouring, which is not recommended by Google due to security vulnerabilities.
- hp77 2y agoI read Google is limitting the use of io_uring, but I have seen io_uring being used in other Databases, TigerBeetle is another DB which uses io_uring.
- OutOfHere 2y agoIn-memory caches (lacking persistence) shouldn't be called a database. It's not totally incorrect, but it's an abuse of terminology. Why is a Python dictionary not an in-memory key-value database?
- Clemolomo 2y ago[dead]
- rebolek 2y ago- proudly open source. cool! - join discord. YAY :(
- schmookeeg 2y agoUsing an instrument of chance to name a data store technology is pretty amusing to me.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoNo chance if we live in a deterministic universe.
- dkh 2y agoThis is essentially what all in-memory data stores have always been Kinda refreshing to see someone own it and run with it
- sidcool 2y agoIs Arpit is the system design course guy?
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoYes. I do run a sys design course on weekends.
- bitlad 2y agoI think performance benchmark you have done for DiceDB is fake. These are the real numbers - https://dzone.com/articles/performance-and-scalability-analysis-of-redis-memcached https://dzone.com/articles/performance-and-scalability-analy... Does not match with your benchmarks.
- arpitbbhayani 2y agoThe benchmark tool is different. I mentioned the same on my benchmark page. We had to write a small benchmark utility (membench) ourselves because the long-term metrics that we are optimizing need to be evaluated in a different way. Also, the scripts, utilities, and infra configurations are mentioned. Feel free to run it.
- curtisszmania 2y ago[dead]
- nylonstrung 2y agoWho is this for? Can you help me explain why and when I'd want to use this in place of redis/dragonfly
- losvedir 2y agoI didn't see it in the docs, but I'd want to know the delivery semantics of the pubsub before using this in production. I assume best effort / at most once? Any retries? In what scenarios will the messages be delivered or fail to be delivered?
- huntaub 2y agoWhat are some example use cases where having the ability for the database to push updates to an application would be helpful (vs. the traditional polling approach)?
- zupa-hu 2y agoOne example is when you want to display live data on a website. Could be a dashboard, a chat, or really the whole site. Polling is both slower and more resource hungry. If it is built into your language/framework, you can completely ignore the problem of updating the client, as it happens automatically. Hope that makes sense.
- deazy 2y agoLooking at the diceDB code base, I have few questions regarding its design, I'm asking this to understand the project's goals and design rationale. Anyone feel free to help me understand this. I could be wrong but the primary in-memory storage appears to be a standard Go map with locking. Is this a temporary choice for iterative development, and is there a longer-term plan to adopt a more optimized or custom data structure ? I find the DiceDB's reactivity mechanism very intriguing, particularly the "re-execution" of the entire watch command (i.e re-running GET.WATCH mykey on key modification), it's an intriguing design choice. From what I understand is the Eval func executes client side commands this seem to be laying foundation for more complex watch command that can be evaluated before sending notifications to clients. But I have the following question. What is the primary motivation behind re-executing the entire command, as opposed to simply notifying clients of a key change (as in Redis Pub/Sub or streams)? Is the intent to simplify client-side logic by handling complex key dependencies on the server? Given that re-execution seems computationally expensive, especially with multiple watchers or more complex (hypothetical) watch commands, how are potential performance bottlenecks addressed? How does this "re-execution" approach compare in terms of scalability and consistency to more established methods like server-side logic (e.g., Lua scripts in Redis) or change data capture (CDC) ? Are there plans to support more complex watch commands beyond GET.WATCH (e.g. JSON.GET.WATCH), and how would re-execution scale in those cases? I'm curious about the trade-offs considered in choosing this design and how it aligns with the project's overall goals. Any insights into these design decisions would help me understand its use-cases. Thanks
- deazy 1y agoI was hoping for a response, but no one bothered. I had noted the following when I made that comment and will just wrap up from my end so this could be used by others for reference later. I'm skeptical that the re-execution approach can scale for complex queries, the latency and throughput improvements would be offseted by the computational cost and bottlenecks introduced for achieving it via its reactivity mechanism (query subscription), this might not work at scale and serve niche use cases. There are various ways throughput and latency for kv stores can be improved, so bar is really high here. The messaging with Dice seems unclear and confusing to describe its purpose/use-cases over alternatives, or how it achieves them, which could just be how it's marketed. But it seems to be a collection of ideas and a WIP project. I think reducing data fetching complexity and complex key dependencies for end clients could be appealing, and it would be great to have it at the KV store level, but there is no reason this type of reactivity can't be implemented on top of various clients for existing KV stores (like Redis). And basic WATCH with transactions are even offered out of the box in them. Deno kv seem nice but its vendor locked, also there are many others like dragonfly, valkey etc, redis could still work, even something over sqlite can work, deno has a selfhosted kv on top of sqlite - https://github.com/denoland/denokv https://github.com/denoland/denokv Also with dice its creator had made this talk https://hasgeek.com/rootconf/2024/sub/how-we-made-dicedb-a-truly-real-time-reactive-data-NitoDwHf3HdAbY63QmymjW https://hasgeek.com/rootconf/2024/sub/how-we-made-dicedb-a-t... From that and the thread so far it seems, they want to make some super cache by building a realtime multi-threaded kv store, improving latency and reducing its read load via its reactivity mechanism. Solving the problem of cache invalidation. Not sure how this will be achieved but there is no harm in trying. From what is said and shared, rationale behind this design and its tradeoffs are not clear, code could be fixed/improved but providing clarity on this is essential for adoption.
- weekendcode 2y agoFrom the benchmarks on 4vCPU and num_clients=4, the numbers doesn't look much different. Reactive looks promising, doesn't look much useful in realworld for a cache. For example, a client subscribes for something and the machines goes down, what happens to reactivity?
- 999900000999 2y agoI like it! Anyway to persist data in case of reboots? That's the only thing missing here. Is Go the only SDK ?
- lucifercr7 2y agoSnapshot functionality is WIP, which can be utilised to persist and replay data between reboots. For now Golang SDK is only one, more SDKs are to be added soon.
- Aeolun 2y agoI feel like this needs a ‘Why DiceDB instead of Redis or Valtio’ section prominently on the homepage.
- dkh 2y agoDid you mean Valkey, or has the js community now managed to shoehorn an entire high-availability database server into a javascript object proxy?
- Aeolun 2y agoIt’s only a matter of time xD but yes, I meant Valkey. I was typing that out and felt like something was wrong but couldn’t put my finger on what.
- cytocync 2y ago[dead]
- kiitos 2y agoThere are _so many_ bugs in this code. One example among many: https://github.com/DiceDB/dice/blob/0e241a9ca253f17b4d364cdf0640a4453400f35e/internal/id/id.go https://github.com/DiceDB/dice/blob/0e241a9ca253f17b4d364cdf... defines func ExpandID, which reads from cycleMap without locking the package-global mutex; and func NextID, which writes to cycleMap under a lock of the package-global mutex. So writes are synchronized, but only between each other, and not with reads, so concurrent calls to ExpandID and NextID would race. This is all fine as a hobby project or whatever, but very far from any kind of production-capable system.
- senderista 2y agoHaven't looked at the code, but enforcing mutual exclusion between writers but not readers can make sense for a single-writer lock-free algorithm.
- ignoramous 2y ago> single-writer lock-free algorithm I understand the need for correct lock-free impls: Given OP's description, simply avoiding read mutexes can't be the way to go about it?
- nebulous1 2y agoI don't use Go. https://go.dev/ref/mem https://go.dev/ref/mem If I'm reading this correctly, they are recommending a lock in this situation. However, they are saying the implementations has two options, either raise an error reporting the race (if the implementation is told to do so), or, because the value being read is not larger than a machine word, reply to the read with a correct value from a previous write. If true then it cannot reply with corrupted data.
- fashion-at-cost 2y agoThe goalposts have been moved. The claim is that this pattern isn’t suitable for production code. The ground truth is that a compliant Go implementation may elect to: crash; read the first value ever set to the variable for the entire lifetime of the program; or behave completely as you’d expect from a single core interleaved execution order. The first is an opt-in, the latter two are up to the whims of the runtime and an implementation may alternate between them at any point. Is that the kind of uncertainty you want in your production systems? Or is your only requirement that they don’t serve “corrupt” data? Don’t be “clever”. Use locks.
- deadbabe 2y agoI think Postgres can do everything this does and better if you use LISTEN/NOTIFY.
- cozzyd 2y agoDiceDB sounds like the name of a joke database that returns random results.
- BoorishBears 2y agoNo it doesn't.
- kreddor 2y agoIt was my first thought as well, before reading the landing page.
- BoorishBears 2y agoYeah, and I'm sure someone clicked it thinking it was a DB for EA's Dice Studios. If you expose something to enough people you'll get some unreasonable takes and interpretations of it. It's important to ignore them.
- graynk 2y ago> If you expose something to enough people you'll get some unreasonable takes and interpretations of it. It's important to ignore them. Quite literally the main function of dice is to give you random numbers. Looking over the website and readme I could not surmise why they would call it DiceDB except for "it sounds nice", but it's absolutely not unreasonable to look at the name and have a thought "it's probably a joke project about random results".
- BoorishBears 2y agoThere are literal mountains of software named for no particular reason (let alone sounding nice), or named by origins no person would ever infer without digging in deeper. Reasonable people realize this and won't discard a project as a joke because of such a teneous connection, and the fact they've gotten traction is a testament to that.
- retropragma 2y agoWhy would I use this over keyspace notifications in redis?
- dkh 2y agoBased on this thread, I'm not sure you would want to use this over keyspace notifications, but I will also say that there comes a point in the maturity of a system when keyspace notifications become a complicated, unreliable, resource-heavy nightmare. They work fine is your needs and scale are limited, but it's definitely not what you want if handling lots of frequent chances across craploads of keys, with complicated logic for who needs them and how they get routed to them, and where it matters if the notification is successfully received. But certainly you could build something to handle these and most other needs in this realm with mostly just redis, using streams for what needs to be more robust, in tandem with pub/sub, keyspace notifs, etc. in the areas they are suited to.
- re-lre-l 2y ago> For Modern Hardware fully utilizes underlying core to get higgher throughput and better hardware utilization. Would be great to disclose details of this one. I'm interested in using what DiceDB achieves higher throughput.
- throwaway2037 2y agoFYI: Here is the creator and maintainer's profile: https://github.com/arpitbbhayani https://github.com/arpitbbhayani Is there a plan to commercialise this product? (Offer commercial support, features, etc.) I could not find anything obvious from the home page.
- robertlagrant 2y ago> fully utilizes underlying core to get higgher throughput and better hardware utilization FYI this is a misspelling of "higher"
- alexpadula 2y ago15655 ops a second with a Hetzner CCX23 machine with 4 vCPU and 16GB RAM is rather slow for an in-memory database I hate to say it. You can't blame that on network latency as for example supermassivedb.com is written in go and achieves magnitudes more, actually x20 and it's persisted.. I must investigate the bottlenecks with Dice.
- rednafi 2y agoDatabase as a transport?