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Some authors of this piece are deeply involved themselves in building robots and other hardware technology. They should be taken seriously. The US is moving int
by blueyes 2y ago
Some authors of this piece are deeply involved themselves in building robots and other hardware technology. They should be taken seriously. The US is moving into a trade war, however unwise, with the country that supplies components for everything we make and need. That country has expansionist ambitions and a superior manufacturing base, which is typically what wins wars.
- sieabahlpark 2y agoDamn, thanks for plainly stating why we need manufacturing back to the states.
- rtp4me 2y agoYes, and I think this is the core motivation behind the Trump messaging - bring it back to the US if possible. In fact, he wants to bring back commercial and maritime ship building back[1]. Pretty cool! Hopefully this will employ lots of people. [1] https://news.usni.org/2025/03/05/trumps-make-shipbuilding-great-again-order-calls-for-wholesale-overhaul-of-u-s-maritime-industry https://news.usni.org/2025/03/05/trumps-make-shipbuilding-gr...
- torginus 2y agoWell, no matter what he wants, there's a reason China has 5-10 year plans and not 2 week ones.
- idiotsecant 2y agoThis is Chinas greatest strength and their greatest weakness. They can actually commit to policy positions when they're effective, but they also commit to policy positions when they're not effective.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoShame it's being bungled with flip flops for nothing in return. Nor any achievable commitments which business can plan for or count on.
- alienthrowaway 2y agoAt the same time, he's ripping up the CHIPS act. It's the duality of Trump: he wants to bring manufacturing back, except when he doesn't.
- Sabinus 2y agoWords and desires are easy. Crafting, marketing and enacting policy to achieve the goals set by your words and desires is difficult. The world is complex and reacts in complex ways, but try to say that to a Trump voter and get called a disconnected elitist.
- idiotsecant 2y agoTalk is cheap, as they say. It's one thing to want something to happen, it's entirely another to actually make it so. Generally disassembling the machinery of state and starting trade wars is not an effective way to achieve your policy objectives unless your policy objective is economic and social chaos.
- Hikikomori 2y agoGonna build boats with steel and aluminium tariffs at 50% or more? Good luck with that. This isn't something you turn around in a few years by adding tariffs, it's a long term strategy that requires high investments and tariffs. Like the chip act, but Biden did that so that cant happen either.
- mercutio2 2y ago“Back” is in the mid 1800’s, you mean? Or “back” as in when we built astonishingly expensive liberty ships for a large fraction of our GDP in WW2? Because since the move to steel ships, there’s never been a time the US has been good at building ships. Brian Potter goes into great detail on this [0], it’s a great read. [0] https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-cant-the-us-build-ships https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-cant-the-us-build...
- mptest 2y agosee also: his attacks on the "horrible" CHIPS act [0]. If anyone think he's doing anything good for anyone but billionaires, contact me. I've got some trump coin to sell you. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/trump-wants-kill-527-billion-semiconductor-chips-subsidy-law-2025-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/trump-wants-kill-527-bill...
- groby_b 2y ago"Back" as in undermining EV manufacturing? And non-fossil power generation? "Back" as in massively increasing input costs? "Back" as in alienating close allies who are a large part of our customer base? "Back" as in repeatedly disrupting the supply chain by flip-flopping on tariffs without a clear plan? "Back" as in undermining research across the board? The current policy will not employ lots of people. It will have lots of people out of work fairly soon, if we continue on the current path. It will diminish our industrial base further, and reset our manufacturing skills to the 80s or earlier. But hey, at least toy manufacturers are hiring, that's a really important industry. Setting aside any questions about intentions, the effects of the current policies are hugely deleterious.
- whatever1 2y agoHe is gonna import raw materials from where ? Currently he started trade war with all of his allies ?
- HDThoreaun 2y agoShip building is non existent in this country because of the protectionist jones act. Protectionism backfires every time.
- torginus 2y agoAnd is the effort to deport as many Mexican skilled tradesmen and manual laborers as possible the part of this grand plan?
- dluan 2y agoThe US makes 5 commercial ships per year. China makes 1,700. https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/containers/us-wakes-up-to-china-s-shipbuilding-dominance https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/containers/us-wakes-up-to-...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ActorNightly 2y agoNot gonna happen. On the 1% chance we have a fair election next time around and Dems get elected, they will be too busy cleaning up the Republican mess, and nobody will notice. Just like what happened under Biden. China ironically can end US by simply providing easy immigration for qualified tech workers.
- chii 2y ago> simply providing easy immigration for qualified tech workers. I dont believe those tech workers would wish to move, unless the political system in china changes to one that is more amenable to democracy; not to mention that having high salaries in the US, it will be impossible to achieve similar levels in china after migration (even if the PPP remains the same!).
- bee_rider 2y agoMove to a democracy-amenable country that isn’t engaging in a trade with with China.
- bee_rider 2y agoErr, a trade war. That typo really bungled my comment, haha.
- ActorNightly 2y agoI mean, you are going to see an exodus of tech workers regardless as US economy withers up and other countries (probably in EU) pick up the slack. China won't even have to have high salaries, all they would need to do is basically set up immigrant neighborhoods that have all the familiar things that US people like, and through the nature of just being around people of similar status, whatever the salary everyone gets paid gets normalized - there isn't anything you would be able to buy to "flex" on your peers, and everyone would be in the same boat.
- t-3 2y agoChina isn't interested in immigration. In a relatively liberal and democratic country like the US, immigration is a boon because we don't care all that much about political or economic stability and are used to not having it. In an authoritarian oligarchy like China it's poison because an unstable environment will see the government in trouble quickly when people lose confidence in the party and leadership.
- DonHopkins 2y ago[flagged]
- cladopa 2y ago>That country has expansionist ambitions and a superior manufacturing base, which is typically what wins wars. What country are you referring to. US with Greenland, and Canada?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoWe can eventually automate our economy by buying software and hardware from China. By electing Trump, we basically missed the chance to lead on anything, and instead decided to engage full time in trade and culture wars that aren't really going to yield anything. But as long as the work gets done, even if in China, we should be able to enjoy it.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoThe Romans used to think that way. Their subjects thought otherwise.
- dluan 2y agoIt's funny you invoke some trad/conservative appeal to tradition, and meanwhile China's imperial history of bureaucratic machinery is never pointed to as an example of "look, technocratic meritocracy works".
- fancl20 2y agoI think it's well documented that modern bureaucracy is at least inspired by China's bureaucratic machinery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Service_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Service_(United_Kingdom) > Under Charles Grant, the East India Company established the East India Company College at Haileybury near London, to train administrators, in 1806. The college was established on recommendation of officials in China who had seen the imperial examination system. In government, a civil service, replacing patronage with examination, similar to the Chinese system, was advocated a number of times over the next several decades.[10] > William Ewart Gladstone, in 1850, an opposition member, sought a more efficient system based on expertise rather than favouritism. The East India Company provided a model for Stafford Northcote, private Secretary to Gladstone who, with Charles Trevelyan, drafted the key report in 1854.[11] And western countries accepted it as part of the base assumption how government should work, then nobody points to its origin since now it's so obvious (from modern perspective).
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- sampton 2y agoChina has been methodically preparing for trade war and decoupling for the better part of the decade. US went in full throttle with zero preparation. This is not going to end well.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoIt’s the only way the US will learn.
- QuantumGood 2y agoPolitics and propaganda tend to dominate national "learning", and those forces tend to escalate to prevent awareness. So not a lot of learning happens, historically ("history tends to repeat itself"; "history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes", etc)
- toomuchtodo 2y agoIf facts don’t work, intelligent, rational discourse and compromise don’t work, and economic pain don’t work, well, you’re out of options (at least options that can be discussed here).
- immibis 2y agoBy denying all other avenues of learning, the USA has chosen to revert to the oldest, which can't be disabled: natural selection.
- QuantumGood 2y agoPropaganda works. But it works better if the creator(s) are unethical and strongly committed. Usually the most unethical cooperate somewhat for their own gain, rather than compete.
- yibg 2y agoI wonder if this is a consequence of the political systems of China vs the US. China tends to think and plan longer term, where as the US seems much more transactional; what will win me the next election / midterm etc.
- watwut 2y agoYou could also ... try not to make war. Just an idea. Pretty offputting actually to see someone supporting expansion being upvoted.
- flyinglizard 2y agoNo one is trying to make war, but naturally China is looking at changing the order of things, at least regionally. To make that happen it needs USA to move out, and create its own coalition of countries around the area.
- thuanao 2y agoUSA needs to move out and stop trying to start a war with China. Taiwan is China. Historically, legally, even according to the US's own policy. The KMT lost. This fantasy the US has of toppling or splitting up the PRC in a proxy war is extremely deranged. China has exercised incredible restraint over the actions of a belligerent warmonger US.
- Galatians4_16 2y agoTaiwan is a sovereign nation, and West Taiwan needs to accept that.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- idiotsecant 2y agoThe Taiwan obsessed PRC loonies online always seem to think that the west spends way more time thinking about Taiwan then they actually do.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoI don't agree with most of what you've written, however, if the US has only mineral-profits interest in defending Ukraine from Russia, then there's only slightly above zero chance that the US will be rushing to defend Taiwan from China. What seems more likely is that the US will agree to let China take Taiwan in return for allowing the trade of TSMC chips to continue. TSMC is the majoity (only?) value proposition the US has in Taiwan, and, from memory and a cursory Wikipeding, it seems that TSMC has been 'de-centralising' into Japan, the US, and Europe of late.
- fuzzfactor 2y ago>The US once had a solid base to spin up heavy industry factories, but this withered away as cheaper overseas manufacturing cut US producers out and the American economy shifted toward leading edge technology and services. The Americans in charge of the "economy" settled for "leading edge" technology and services.
- SergeAx 2y agoWhat exactly are China's expansionist ambitions beyond obvious Taiwan and beef with India over the border in Tibet?
- rreichman 2y agoHave you heard of the South China Sea?
- SergeAx 2y agoIs it a rhetorical question? In my opinion this dispute is closely tied with Taiwan claim. When China gets Taiwan - it gets most of the critical area containing shipping lines and oil/gas fields.
- intosh 1y agoWhat about it? It's called South China Sea for a reason. BTW, many countries are disputing over parts of it, not just China. By contrast, US has been occupying parts of Syria and Cuba. It overtly seeks to take control of Greenland. It has 800 military bases around the globe; in most cases, de facto occupying a country.