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Gabe Newell Wants to Support Linux, Because Windows 8 is a 'Catastrophe'
- lazugod 14y agoIt's a catastrophe for Valve if third party markets like Steam don't fit seamlessly into the future of Windows.
- huggyface 14y agoAnd it's a catastrophe for users if third party markets like Steam don't fit seamlessly into the future of Windows.
- barranger 14y agoHowever steam will continue to work just like it does now on the desktop. It's disingenuous for Gabe to talk about how much of a 'Catastrophe' Windows 8 is going to be or how touch screens are "Short-term" but leave out the fact that these fears stem from it's possible impact on Steam's bottom line
- wtracy 14y agoLong-term, yes. Short-term, if they can still get their games through Microsoft's own market, they won't care.
- aeturnum 14y agoI think that the short-term is where Microsoft needs to incorporate 3rd party stores. People already have catalogs, some of them quite large, in Steam or other digital distribution services. Microsoft will either have to attract users who weren't previously attracted to digital distribution, or they'll have to support the investments that customers have already made. Once they level the playing field (by allowing users to use Stream or the MS App Store without penalty), Microsoft can start to try and draw users away from 3rd party services. However, in the short term, it's hard to imagine them drawing users from steam and forcing those same users to abandon their investment in steam.
- MartinCron 14y agoThat's an interesting idea. It seems that a software marketplace is just going to become a part of the computing platform. It would be cool if some platforms would open up their marketplaces to other vendors. The "Steam" store in the Windows App Store. It makes the marketplace more like a Mall and individual providers more like stores. It may or may not happen, but I like the idea of having multiple options.
- zanny 14y agoI feel gamers are much more bound to Steam than they are to the Windows platform. If a game works on Linux, they could care less if it is under Windows. Most of them only use their PC for gaming, web browsing, video watching, music playing, and document writing anyway, and Ubuntu does all of that as good or better than Windows anyway. They will happily Wubi install Ubuntu over their Windows disk the day their steam library works on it if Steam pushes them to switch. Getting the library working and the graphics drivers up to par is the bigger problem.
- trotsky 14y agoI'm all for linux support, but clearly he's more worried about a future with microsoft taking their digital delivery business, not usability.
- ajross 14y agoOr Apple, or Google, or Amazon. Steam is, really, just an app store. And that's becoming part of the platform in the modern world. Frankly I think the sanest option here would be for MS to simply buy Valve and turn them into the "Windows App Store". But I can't imagine that happening given all the internal churn that would be required to eliminate all their existing online purchase junk.
- arohner 14y agoI'm pretty sure Valve wouldn't sell to MS for any amount of money. Gabe is a billionaire, and left MS to do his own stuff. And Valve culture sounds incompatible w/ MS culture.
- malkia 14y agoSpot on. More likely Google fit, than anyone else. "Engineering rules" culture and almost "flat" hierarchy.
- sseveran 14y agoIn fact he once worked at Microsoft I believe.
- phaus 14y agoI'd go so far as to say that as long as Gabe Newell is alive, I highly doubt that Valve would sell to anyone at any price. The man sincerely loves his job, his fans, and especially his team.
- trotsky 14y agoThe difference being only one of them owns the platform steam gets practically all of their revenue from.
- chj 14y agoLove the fact that he votes with feet.
- megaman821 14y agoI don't understand this sentiment. If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists. For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start typing the name and for frequently used apps, pin to your taskbar. Steam still works exactly the same on Windows 8.
- summerdown2 14y agoAm I the only one who likes having a gorgeous desktop wallpaper, with icons arranged in clusters according to usability? Or to have overlapping windows? Everything I've heard about Metro suggests limited customisation of the desktop and apps that insist on being full-screen or some guaranteed fraction. All of this feels like evolution in reverse to me. I've never used Windows 8, but the stories coming out make me never want to. http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux...
- Zr40 14y agoNothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. Everything else will run in windows outside of Metro, just like they do in Windows 7. Only the new start screen (which replaces the start menu) will expose you to Metro. But in my experience with the Release Preview, this start screen is pleasant to use and still allows for keyboard search like in Windows 7 as well as keyboard navigation. You can still use your desktop in precisely the same way you're doing right now. Nothing has changed there.
- learc83 14y ago>Nothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. What happens when the majority of apps you want to use are Metro apps?
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
- Donito 14y agoThe title should be: "Gabe Newell Wants to Support Linux, Because Windows 8 is a 'Catastrophe' [for steam]". Steam is, from a user perspective, a video game marketplace on PC. In Win8, they will have to compete with the built-in windows marketplace, where most games will published directly. In other words, Win8 is a catastrophe for them as it's endangering their business.
- Splines 14y agoSteam is already competing with very strong entrants (Amazon, Gamestop/Impulse, Gamersgate), and seems to be doing well. Microsoft hasn't exactly hit the ball out of the park with Xbox Games-on-Demand, I'm not sure how much they really have to worry here.
- tikhonj 14y agoThe worst problem isn't competing with the Microsoft marketplace--it's not being able to compete. And that's exactly what Windows 8 Rt threatens. Microsoft has decided to emulate Apple and be evil on tablets.
- landr0id 14y ago> In Win8, they will have to compete with the built-in windows marketplace, where most games will published directly. Has there been any talk from major publishers/developers that they're actually looking at the Windows 8 marketplace as a serious option? Steam seems to be very friendly towards developers/publishers in terms of pushing out updates, cert, advertising. Plus, Steam has pretty good support for customers. What will the Windows 8 marketplace offer or do better to provide the sort of incentive needed to attract big players?
- ericd 14y agoI can tell you that it would be very hard for Microsoft to make me choose to use their app store over Steam without resorting to anti-competitive tactics. Steam, from a gamer's perspective, does almost everything right, and I have a huge number of games "stored" there. Then again, laziness might trump for most people.
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- nas 14y agoMy gut feeling is they have more compelling reasons to port Steam to Linux. Look at the growth in the number of relatively powerful personal computing devices (smartphones, tablets, etc) that don't run Windows. It's also been suggested that Valve is looking at developing their own game console. It is reasonable to spend some effort making their system less tied to the Windows API.
- recoiledsnake 14y agoI think the headline of the article is pretty misleading as he means that Windows 8 is a catastrophe for Steam because of the Windows 8 app store. Looks like everyone's upvoting the article because they seem to think that Gabe meant that Windows 8 will be a failure. Instead of having to go through Steam's distribution, games will have the option of going directly to the Windows 8 app store and get featured there, not to mention XBox Live coming to Windows. Anyone know what Steam's cut for game devs is? Microsoft is charging between 20 to 30%, so Steam seems to be very worried about their revenue stream and thus supporting Linux as a hedge. Of course the regular desktop Steam client will keep working, but not on Windows RT ARM devices. Also, doesn't the WinRT support full DirectX? Ref. http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/07/randy-pitchford-on-steam-valve-is-taking-a-larger-share-than-i/ http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/07/randy-pitchford-on-steam-v... Says Pitchford, "It would be much better if Steam was its own business." If Valve spun off the content delivery system, it would also remove the perceived conflict of interest Pitchford takes umbrage with. "Steam helps us as customers, but it's also a money grab, and Valve is exploiting a lot of people in a way that's not totally fair," Pitchford says. "Valve is taking a larger share than it should for the service it's providing. It's exploiting a lot of small guys."
- commandar 14y agoWhat are you basing this on? The quote in both the linked article and the AllThingsD piece indicates that he said "I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space." He isn't just talking about Valve.
- bcbrown 14y agoA business catastrophe, not a usability or market catastrophe. "I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people."
- cooldeal 14y agoYou're right, and I also wouldn't trust anything he says about Windows 8 since he has a vested interest in keeping easy distribution restricted to Steam. He will face no such competition on Linux.
- petitmiam 14y agoand saying he thinks the future of interaction will be through computerized wristbands How far off are computerised wristbands?
- SkyMarshal 14y agoNot far. http://www.france24.com/en/20120723-minority-report-software-hits-real-world http://www.france24.com/en/20120723-minority-report-software...
- Produce 14y agoThe year of the Linux desktop?
- MartinCron 14y agoThe year of the Linux desktop is next year. The same as it has always been.
- farinasa 14y agoMany people say that they have this or that application that keeps them clinging to windows and for me it has always been games. If it weren't for games, I would never use windows on any of my personal machines again, let alone purchase it. Linux distros don't even sell their products yet somehow are better thought out than any version of windows.
- viraptor 14y agoBut they do sell the software. Either directly as a managed solutions to big companies, or very indirectly implement something per request or to solve an internal need. Or even offering support or getting some features sponsored. You may not give them money, but there are people / companies that do.
- farinasa 14y agoIt makes sense for corporations to pay for support if it costs less than hiring a team of people to do it. If that is the strategy a company uses to make their products more accessible to me, I'm all for it.
- ryanisinallofus 14y agoSteam has little to worry about in regards to the Windows App Store. They just need to keep pushing platforms, keep securing great titles, and RELEASE ANOTHER DAMN HALF LIFE 2 EPISODE. Exclusively on Steam of course. Steam is pretty great and it's not easy to replicate. See "Google Play."
- devth 14y agoI could write Steam in Lisp in about 10 minutes
- freehunter 14y agoThe value of an application is more than the sum of its lines of code.
- devth 14y agoOh Really? Let me troll my friend in peace.
- freehunter 14y agoI'm sorry, HN isn't AIM or Facebook. There's no way for anyone to know who you know unless you tell us, and even then I fail to see how the comment is relevant.
- devth 14y agoThe comment is irrelevant.
- ShellfishMeme 14y ago> RELEASE ANOTHER DAMN HALF LIFE 2 EPISODE Probably not going to happen before they release their new gaming console. They need a good launch title and you know how long it takes them to build a game.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ilaksh 14y agoI use Linux. I am on Ubuntu right now. I just wish I could figure out how to get the Radeon/whatever graphics drivers right on this Lenovo Ideapad. I gave up. I am rooting for Linux, WebGL, and other stuff. Whatever can help take down Windows is great. If Windows can actually take down Windows, even better.
- MartinCron 14y agoI just wish I could figure out how to get the Radeon/whatever graphics drivers right on this Lenovo Ideapad. I gave up The fact that things like this are still an issue makes me think that it will take more than just Steam to make desktop Linux more than a tiny niche in the gaming market.
- estebank 14y agoAu contraire, having Steam available might be just enough to push for better driver support from nVidia and AMD.
- eagsalazar 14y agoYour point is valid but the things that keep linux from widespread adoption go way way beyond drivers (and drivers are a big deal). I really wonder how many people commending have used Linux as daily drivers on laptops for a long time? I've been using linux for over 10 years exclusively and I love the culture and the idea but I'll also be the first one to admit that the Linux desktop just plain sucks and is a buggy mess.
- MartinCron 14y agoI honestly hope so. Even though I don't use Linux on the desktop anymore (I'm Mac, mostly) I appreciate the pressure that competition brings.
- reedlaw 14y agoWith Steam on Linux there will be more pressure for GPU vendors to clean up their drivers mess.
- JVIDEL 14y agoIt makes sense: with Linux support Valve could run roll Steam with a barebones distro creating their own OS (SteamOS?) to run on top of the rumored SteamBox, with better control of resources and no need to pay licenses to MSFT.
- sbierwagen 14y agoBlogspam. Original post is https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/ https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-fu...
- c0nfused 14y agoIt seems like sbierwagen's linked article makes this a bit clearer than the op. I think that the fear he has of Windows 8 is not that Valve will have competition or that steam will lose market share. it already is fighting similar offerings from a few different angles. He seems concerned that windows 8 represents a step back from the open platform model of windows. That it signals an attempt from Microsoft to build their own walled garden to counteract Apple's. This would inevitably be bad for third parties who make their living in the Microsoft ecosystem. Linux then solves the problem because the platform is open. Not in terms of cost but of access
- sakopov 14y agoBack in my more involved gaming days, Steam was a catastrophe for PC gaming. Other than picking up a game at a good price and automatically getting game patches from Steam, there was really nothing great about it. They had virtually no support. Your best bet was the forums. Throttled downloads were really fun too. Especially when you download a 5-gig game pack and have to sit there and resume your download every 5 minutes. Constant startup issues. I was patiently waiting for Battlefield 3 and was delighted to find out that EA decided to ditch Steam for this release, however their own Origin platform wasn't much better. Honestly, If i had to pick between slightly higher prices at the stores and Steam - i'd pick the stores. With app stores rolling in all over different platforms i'm afraid to say there is going to be very little room for Steam and this is probably a good thing. I'd rather see a good remake of Counter Strike and Half Life from Valve, than a new gaming platform.
- nitrogen 14y agoThrottled game updates? For as long as I've had my present Internet connection, I download updates from Steam with a median speed of 6 MB/s.
- petitmiam 14y agoI've never had an issue with throttled downloads. Doesn't your ISP have a Steam mirror? Also, Counter-Strike: GO is being released on Aug 21. http://store.steampowered.com/app/1800/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/1800/
- sakopov 14y agoThe last game i purchased from Steam was roughly a little over a year ago and up to that point any game downloads would take days. I'm not on any kind of uber-fast connection (10mb) and never had any issues with any issues streaming or downloading content from any other service. P.S. I have heard of CS:GO which is nothing more than old CS:Source with improved environment. It isn't a bad game by any means, but it is lagging behind multiplayer shooters like CoD, Battlefield.
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- fpp 14y agoAfter the Vista Candy shop its toy blocks now... - haven't looked under the hood of W8 yet but if MS wants to limit me what I can install on my computer / take over boot / BIOS control this one will certainly find no home on any of my computers. Call me old fashioned but if I go to a shop and buy a computer (or have it send to my place) I actually want to own it and not find a clause on line 432'678 of the license agreement that it's now completely legal that a Seattle Corp has pwned my computer.
- notatoad 14y agoNone of those things are true. Microsoft will not limit what you can install, take over your bios, or control your boot. In fact, windows 8 is the first windows to play nice with Linux boot loaders. Windows RT (aka tablets) is the only space where bootloaders will be locked. Don't get me wrong, locking it down anywhere is a shitty thing to do, but spreading misinformation is also a shitty thing to do.
- zanny 14y agoSecure Boot and signed kernels called. Microsoft is pushing OEMs to sell laptops in the next several years with forced secure boot for x86 platforms.
- yuhong 14y agoforced?
- GeneralMaximus 14y agoOn x86, it's mandatory for OEMs to allow the user to opt-out of Secure Boot. So even if your new laptop has Secure Boot enabled, you can simply reboot into the EFI settings and flip a switch to turn it off.
- csense 14y agoMost EULA's contain a clause that says "This EULA may be changed by us at any time without notice to you. Your continued use of the product after any such change constitutes acceptance of such terms." Seems like, if you don't have a script polling their website hourly for EULA updates, they can insert terms like "By continuing use of our product, you agree that we now own your computer, your house, your bank accounts, your first-born son and your immortal soul." And you'll have no choice but to pay up. I'm surprised I haven't seen more headlines about companies trying this kind of s*.
- tcarey83 14y agoI love this. Gabe rules.
- valgaze 14y ago"According to Newell, there's a guy in Kansas making virtual hats for $150,000 a year. $150,000 a year."
- pbreit 14y agoHas anyone been able to get Windows 8 to work on VirtualBox for Mac? I got it installed but can't figure out how to make it work. Running W8 in a VM really demonstrates how silly hiding the Start menu in the bottom-left pixel.
- gnufied 14y agoIt is one thing porting Steam to Linux and quite another making actual games available on Linux. Take OSX for example,a platform where Steam has been available for awhile now. and yet around half of most played titles on Steam are not available on OSX. What is more - Dota2 valve's own game is not available.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- 6ren 14y agoWhen Vista came out, and everyone hated it, a few people noted that MS OS's alternated hit/miss over the years, stretching way back. Almost as if they were trying out ideas in an experimental release, and then consolidated it into a stable release. Since then, we've had Windows 7, which seemed pretty solid, and now Windows 8, which is a "catastrophe" - continuing the hit/miss pattern.
- flannell 14y agohmmmm, is the secret Valve tv/games console Linux based?
- cs702 14y agoAlong with another HN submission ("Changing My Mind On Microsoft"[1]), Newell's comments are important in and of themselves because of what they represent: a tectonic shift in the business community's perception of Microsoft. Business executives are now openly doubting the future relevance of the Windows platform! -- [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4295711 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4295711