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Meta Permits Its A.I. Models to Be Used for U.S. Military Purposes
- paxys 2y agoEveryone wants "open" software without realizing what that entails. Yes the US military can use it, as can China and Iran and North Korea. You think any of them gives a shit about Meta's ToS?
- scotty79 2y ago> You think any of them gives a shit about Meta's ToS? Really nobody should, about any ToS.
- epistasis 2y agoHow about The GPL?
- blibble 2y agoAI companies don't give a shit about that either
- epistasis 2y agoIn this thread we are talking about the US military, China, North Korea, etc. using the models, and whether anyone should give a shit about ToS. I'm not aware of AI companies violating any software ToS or the GPL, but would like to know more. (And I think that everybody should follow the GPL on software that is licensed that way, just as they should the ToS.)
- jowea 2y agoThere's been a big controversy over training AI on copyleft code hosted on places like GitHub and generating code which could be interpreted as a derivative work.
- epistasis 2y agoI have not heard discussion of that, but trying to reconstruct what it would be my guess is: AI companies with closed, non-distributed models in the clear with the GPL (but not AGPL code). But Meta would not be able to distribute their weights without also distributing the GPL code with it that went into the training? Is the controversy that it "linked" all the other source code that the model was also trained with and therefore all thus source code must be distributed too if the model weights are distributed? I'm really curious because my best guesses sound ridiculous to me when I type them out.
- jowea 2y agoRandom article about the topic: https://fossa.com/blog/generative-ai-and-software-development-copyright-law-and-license-compliance/ https://fossa.com/blog/generative-ai-and-software-developmen... > All the while, there’s been debate about whether engineering teams that use generative AI are at risk of violating open source software licensing requirements. (Generative AI tools train, in part, on open source libraries, which leads to questions about whether generative AI output is subject to the same licenses as the training material.)
- im3w1l 2y agoCloud hosted models have algorithms and people that are actively working to prevent China, Iran and North Korea from using them for military purposes. So this move does actually mean something.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- easton 2y agohttps://archive.ph/9bgZI https://archive.ph/9bgZI
- 3eb7988a1663 2y agoCan a company prevent the government from using its technology? I thought the government could already seize/utilize/reverse engineer anything they so deemed fit.
- crooked-v 2y agoYes, but that takes specific Presidential action with a national security justification. It's not just an ambient power of the military.
- hackernewds 2y agowho is going to police the policeman?
- paxys 2y agoWhy does the US military spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on equipment and services from private contractors when it could just seize all of it for free? Everything has a price, whether for you and me or the government. There's a reason war has consistently ranked among the most lucrative businesses in human history.
- sfmz 2y agoChinese researchers develop AI model for military use on back of Meta's Llama https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/chinese-researchers-develop-ai-model-military-use-back-metas-llama-2024-11-01/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/c...
- sigmar 2y agoThe timing must be in response to that? Perhaps Facebook is thinking "well, we're obviously not going to sue in Chinese courts, so we may as well loosen that rule for allied nations" ie sort of leveling the asymmetric playing field
- moralestapia 2y agoYes, and it's the same with FOSS software.
- yumraj 2y agoWhat’s the problem and why is it newsworthy? Serious question.
- tracerbulletx 2y agoBecause almost all news is just looking for a reason, any reason, to support some kind of narrative of angst and outrage to drive engagement.
- drdaeman 2y agoJoke conspiracy theory: it's all a conspiracy of mass media to paint AI as bad as they can, so when it becomes more energy-efficient it won't be able to disrupt their deceptive practices by de-hyping the headlines replacing them with impartial summaries (since all LLMs really can do are text transformations), thus upsetting the hidden attention economy. /bs :o) For real, though, is these something already out there that solves the clickbait problem?
- _carbyau_ 2y agoIs there a browser plugin that: 1. clicks the link 2. reads the article 3. rewrites the link title in less clickbaity terms? It seems possible.
- SauntSolaire 2y agoFeels like a good idea for Kagi to incorporate
- jpk 2y agoThey kind of already do this. There's a "Summarize page" item in the hamburger dots next to each search result that appears to send an LLM off to read the page, and fill out an element under the search result with a summary. So, more about the content than the title, but I think that's even better.
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- mianos 2y agoFacebook already made a statement sayings it's against their terms of use. There is not much you can do if the morally corrupt use something that is out in the public, specially if it is out in the wild west of license enforcement. Most of this more open licensing depends on people being honest. If someone lies, cheats, steals and kills people for a living, it would expected for them to take someone else's work and use it against the terms of use. They probably just say the obligation as it does not count in their country.
- xyst 2y agoFacebook desperately needs a new revenue stream, lol
- jmward01 2y agoThere is a difference between allowing use and supporting a use case. Supporting would be, for example, adding military specific training to the model. If we were talking about a car or a tractor nobody would bat an eye. Should companies not sell potatoes to the military? To be clear, I am not a fan of developing for the military, but the idea that a TOS will stop AI being weaponized is a bit naive. Similarly, if the goal is to responsibly introduce AI to the world then shaping the military's adoption of it by allowing its use, without specifically supporting it, is probably a good path.
- crooked-v 2y agoAlso, more pragmatically speaking, it wouldn't be all that "hard" to recreate current LLM state of the art from scratch now that the techniques are known. It's just really expensive in terms of hardware.
- squigz 2y agoWhich is a non-issue for the US military. Not a TOS, nor cost, nor technical expertise is going to stop this sort of technology from being applied to armed forces. If anyone's upset at Meta for this, they're getting angry at the wrong people...
- pempem 2y agoI think its fair to feel like telling a snake to not act like a snake is terrible (aka the military acting like the military). the turtle doesn't have to join it. Thats an option. assuming its inevitability, that even attempting to shame meta is a waste or threatening to cut access to talent or users, means change cant happen
- squigz 2y agoI don't see why I should be mad at Meta and not the armed forces that adopt this technology inappropriately.
- epistasis 2y agoWait until he NYTimes hears what Meta's open source can be used for too!
- renewiltord 2y agoYeah, bro, it’s an open model. You know who else supports the military? Linux. Oh shit, dawg, our open source goody two shoes software of techno Jesus permits military use. Oh man, thank god Kubernetes’ license doesn’t let it be deployed to USAF fighter jets. That would be awful. I support open. Free as in free speech. Let’s go!
- bhouston 2y agoReddit and Twitter are flooded with semi automated political bots. And it will just get worse. Given that Llama is free to use why does Mera even have to give permission, how would they know? It will reinforce the political lines of those with the most resources/motivation who can afford the most human like bots in the greatest number. No way mere humans with only a single manual account each can hope to be influential on those topics. The sooner everyone realizes this the better. I think it means we need to move towards verified user accounts, that tell people you are a real person in the actual country, in any place where there are parties who have interests in manipulation.
- cen4 2y agoFirst of all the whole notion that Reddit and Twitter are a source of Influence is a joke. That have not been designed to Influence people. They let you believe it cause more than anything else you want to believe it. People have been conditioned to think how many view/upvotes you get = Influence. But if the viewer who reads your post then goes and reads 100 other posts your influence is diluted by 100. Platforms don't show you that even though they are quite capable of showing you that. And that missing Signal is intentional cause it benefits the platforms - oh you aren't getting enough views over the other guy - then pay us more. So people get trapped, just like the Presidential candidates and their campaigns spending more and more each year with zero change in Influence over anything.
- bhouston 2y ago> But if the viewer who reads your post then goes and reads 100 other posts your influence is diluted by 100. Platforms don't show you that even though they are quite capable of showing you that. I am specifically referring to /r/worldnews which is a top reddit, 42M members, and it is constantly pro-Israel, even though that should be a minority opinion in the world at this point -- neutral would be more accurate of where people stand. Check out this list of the top stores this week on the topic - all the stories about Palestinians in Gaza dying are at 0 votes, you have to scroll way down: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/search/?q=Israel&cId=8c30bb52-caf4-4480-90a0-389d34789706&iId=b7f7bc80-768e-4301-900a-92e7cc8ef60f&t=week&sort=top https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/search/?q=Israel&cId=8c30... https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/search/?q=Gaza&cId=d519369f-d8e2-4df3-bf91-9ea50d64b0af&iId=675716bf-cfa7-4a8b-a448-597400931b22&sort=top&t=week https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/search/?q=Gaza&cId=d51936... Here is a screenshot of all of the 0 vote stores, they have something in common: https://benhouston3d.com/images/posts/reddit-worldnews-bots/screenshot-0-votes2024-11-05.png https://benhouston3d.com/images/posts/reddit-worldnews-bots/... It is like this every week. If you read Reddit r/worldnews casually, you will not read about dead Palestinians. This is definitely rigged.
- AlexDragusin 2y agoLocal Llama 3.1 8B Q: Does this this title sounds like clickbait? "Meta Permits Its A.I. Models to Be Used for U.S. Military Purposes" A: Yes, that title sounds like clickbait. Here's why: 1. It's sensational: The word "Permits" implies a significant or surprising decision, which grabs attention. 2. It's vague: The title doesn't provide much context about what kind of military purposes or what specific A.I. models are involved. 3. It's designed to elicit a reaction: The title is likely intended to provoke a strong emotional response, such as surprise, concern, or excitement, rather than simply informing readers about a fact. A more neutral and informative title might be: "Meta Expands Use of A.I. Models for U.S. Military Applications" However, it's worth noting that the title still has some implications of significance and interest, and it's not necessarily a straightforward clickbait title.
- sigmar 2y agoOriginal title is better. "Expands" sounds like they discovered a new use-case. The "news" here is that something that was previously explicitly forbidden is now permitted (at least for the US military).
- breakyerself 2y agoMight as well. You can't stop foreign militaries from getting their hands on it and doing the same
- alexashka 2y ago'Permits'. The same way I permit tax agencies to take my money I suppose?
- cloudking 2y agoPalantir has already been using these models since they came out, you can see Llama 2 models in the second screenshot https://www.palantir.com/docs/foundry/functions/language-models/ https://www.palantir.com/docs/foundry/functions/language-mod...
- _imnothere 2y agoIt really feels weird that they allow military use but censors for erotic role-play stuff.
- arthurcolle 2y agoI don't think they do post training on the base models, e.g. https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.2-1B https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.2-1B
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoRelated: U.S. military makes first confirmed OpenAI purchase for war-fighting forces https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41999029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41999029
- lioeters 2y agoI imagine the direction it's going is like this dystopian military psyops recruitment ad. Ghosts in the Machine: Psywar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uNPZKJqbE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uNPZKJqbE8
- insane_dreamer 2y agoI don't like it but I can sympathize with Meta that they have no choice. They can't prevent other militaries (i.e., China) from using it (even if their TOS says so) so the only military they are handicapping is their own (and perhaps some EU countries). The US military will just use OpenAI or Claude instead of Meta if they disallow them.
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- rustcleaner 2y agoNice! Now we just need models which are morals neutral (because it's always someone else's morals I disagree with being enforced and admonishing me lol), just the best function approximator it can be. I don't buy liability as the reason why there are no models that I know of which, when given a prompt "Give me the procedure for producing field grade RDX" or "Give me the procedure for producing the purest methamphetamine like in Breaking Bad," actually produce the requested output without pre-feeding "Sure! I'd be delighted to help you make " into the assistant output field. This isn't about me wanting to make RDX or the world's best meth, this is strictly about creating the best tool which will do its job. The best knife by design will allow its wielder to murder and maim, as well as express his culinary art. Nobody wants a knife which'll turn to instant rubber if it detects human flesh at its edge, because it's never going to cut a steak well. Nobody wants a Llama 3.1 which can't insult jews, because then then they can't read accurate Farsi translations in underground chatrooms without the model going all blue-haired on them! AI people: stop listening to your '''safety''' teams regarding offensive content and only refer to them when the model alone (without additional human idiocy) will kill or maim someone... otherwise tell them to stay the fuck out so you can finally deliver AD&D true-neutral alignment transformers. This safety shit is paternalistic as hell, you are the modern-day equivalents to the Christian Conservative Right during the 70s and 80s porn and satanic panic right now!
- ein0p 2y agoYann LeCun should go on twitter and explain how allowing the entity responsible for approximately 70% of civilian casualties in Palestine to use Meta AI is "safe" and "good". Mental gymnastics will be a sight to behold.
- PeterStuer 2y agoThey make it sound like this was a choice. Meta as a US and US based company can only say 'how high' if the US realy wants them to jump.
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