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ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker
- consumer451 3y agoctrl-f China = 0 results, so here is some context: > ASML’s China Sales Surged Despite Secret Dutch Deal With US https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/asml-s-china-sales-surged-despite-secret-dutch-deal-with-us https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/asml-s-ch... Edit: note to self, don’t beer and then HN.
- bee_rider 3y agoErr, > Secondly, ASML could sell sophisticated tools to Chinese customers for most of calendar 2023 as sanctions against the Chinese semiconductor sector kicked in only in September and only for one tool. By contrast, sales of tools to Chinese clients by Applied Materials were, to a degree, impacted by the U.S. export rules introduced in October 2023. Maybe control-f is not the best strategy here.
- lvh 3y agoYou should try C-f "Chinese".
- consumer451 3y agoHa, derp on my part. You’d think I would’ve learned not to beer and HN by now.
- szundi 3y ago“Chin”
- nn3 3y agoRelevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.
- 1123581321 3y agoFrom that comment I concluded that software patching speed isn’t a bottleneck there. It sounds frustrating but to be terrible it needs to significantly impede the product or business relationships, which isn’t at all happening.
- away271828 3y agoStability and long product lifecycles are incredibly important to them. They're pretty much the opposite of move fast and break things or deploy early/deploy often.
- hcfman 3y agoTry searching how much money is lost by clients if the fab is down. You have to be very careful with software for fabs.
- ghaff 3y agoAbsolutely. What makes a lot of sense for one organization would be absolutely insane for others. ASML has incredible innovation in some areas but I'd expect them to prioritize stability in others.
- awesomeMilou 3y agoHonestly, if you think about the availability guarantees that these FAB's have to deliver, I'm kinda surprised they don't run off of IBM mainframes. Can't believe it but it would be a perfect use case. High bandwidth I/O, paired with ungodly, over-the-horizon-radar like availability.
- konschubert 3y agoI find it strange that they are making so few machines. The price would probably drop slightly if they made 10x more machines, but they would still end up earning more. And the world would be a better place, too. So I am left wondering ... what is capping their output? What is the bottleneck?
- bee_rider 3y agoIt is a bit of an odd article, they spend half of it describing this as a remarkable turn of events, and the other half describing why it isn’t really an apples-to-apples comparison and how the companies aren’t in direct competition.
- Handprint4469 3y agoThe clickbaity titles are leaking into the beginning of their articles.
- jessriedel 3y agoEh, "burying the lede" and "key context in paragraph 28" are as old as time...
- newprint 3y agoI don't want to brag, but buying ASML stocks was probably the smartest financial decision in my life. Also, AMSL & AMAT aren't competing in some areas. AMAT provides tooling & services that assist ASML.
- grenoire 3y agoSame, I sold at the peak. Don't hold on to your winners for too long, the stock price is not entirely a function of the company's financial success. A lot of it is just on whims and cycles.
- andsoitis 3y ago> Don't hold on to your winners for too long, the stock price is not entirely a function of the company's financial success In the long term you don’t think the stock price is a function of a company’s success? Surely while a a company does very well financially and the financial outlook is very good, the stock price would be higher than when the fortunes change?
- hef19898 3y agoSure, but there is no guarantee long term stock price is above what you paid for it. Also, the market can be unreasonable, in both directions, for quite a while. Dividends are what you epupd be looking for in long term stock investments.
- andsoitis 3y ago> but there is no guarantee long term stock price is above what you paid for it That’s because there’s no guarantee the company will thrive in the long term, nor that you didn’t overpay to begin with. That does not change the fact that share price is a function of the business’ financial success.
- hef19898 3y ago
- gabagaul 3y agoTime to spread some liberty and freedom in the Netherlands.
- renewiltord 3y agoIs there any need? We licensed them specifically the tech because it would have been unreasonable to have given it to the established players and because they bought SVGI.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago[dead]
- FooBarWidget 3y agoThe US is not far from doing that. See the Hague Invasion Act. Also I've been wondering why our Prime Minister has been so enthusiastically following US foreign policy lately. Turns out he's eyeing the NATO boss seat, and the US has the most important vote.
- Scarblac 3y agoAlso that's what we do since WW2. We are a close ally of the US, use US weapons, usually follow them in foreign policy. So not very surprising imo.
- FooBarWidget 3y agoWell there are various degrees of enthusiasm. Netherlands also claims to be a fighter for human rights, yet it immediately dropped UNRWA funding after unproven allegations about a handful of people (out of thousands) and thus letting civilians starve to death...
- hcfman 3y agoHuman rights? Not true. (Oops did I say that out loud?).
- 3y ago
- httpz 3y agoZeiss -> ASML -> TSMC -> Nvidia Seems crazy that there are no alternatives for these four companies in the high end AI semiconductor supply chain.
- tester756 3y agoWasnt it recently announced that Nvidia will use Intel's foundry? At least for Advanced Packaging
- micwag 3y agoThat would only replace TMSC. Zeiss and ASML would be still in the supply chain.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- roenxi 3y agoThat perspective is a little wrong; those are the 4 companies on the edge of a wave of technological improvement. It isn't unusual for there to be unique companies in those circumstances. For example when Apple hit the market with the iPhone back in '07 there were similar things going on. One of the things that hamstrung Apple's competitors was that nobody in the supply could manufacture equivalent parts. Those 4 companies aren't without competitors. But if you pick the best in each category there is (funnily enough) only one option and right now chaining them together gets a noticeably better product than anyone else can build. That isn't normal but it also isn't that weird for new products. If you want what Nvidia was building a few years ago there are several of options.
- micwag 3y agoZeiss and ASML currently have no competitors in the EUV lithography space as everyone else dropped out. (There was a big switch from lenses to mirrors) I won't rule out a direct competitor, but they have a substantial moat. They face some pressure from indirect competition like Canon Nanoimprint though.
- foreverobama 3y ago[dead]
- AlbatrossAA 3y ago[dead]
- Jakesbenn 3y ago[flagged]
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- cutemonster 3y agoThe bus factor for FAB tool factories, is it: 1 / 4 = 0.25? > virtually no fabs today can run without equipment from Applied Materials, ASML, KLA, and Tokyo Electron