8 ms·

Unicomp's "New" Model M Keyboard

134 points by Phileosopher 3y ago

jseliger 3y ago
I used one for years and liked it, but, after switching to an ergonomic keyboard, I wouldn't want to primarily move back to a standard one.
- slig 3y ago
  Which ergonomic model did you choose?
  - NegativeLatency 3y ago
    Not OP, but I use the kinesis advantage but if I was going to pick one again I'd go with the ergodox, also had a keyboardio but switching between types is kinda tricky and annoying
    - adregan 3y ago
      Anecdotal, but ergodox flared up my RSI terribly. I think it might be the shear size of it and overstretching my pinkies with the shift keys pulling double duty with parenthesis. I’m now a happy user of the kinesis advantage (though the configuration software pales in comparison to the ergodox) and feel so much better.
      - ryan-c 3y ago
        There's a number of options for replacing the control board on the kinesis advantage (or advantage2) with one that runs QMK, providing the same sort of configurability as the ergodox, and the advantage 360 pro runs on ZMK.
        sleepybrett 3y ago
        I can suggest the following, I had three advantage 2s before picking up my 360pro. I modded all of the 2s with the following boards: * https://github.com/kinx-project/kint https://github.com/kinx-project/kint - Great board, requires usb of course. Programmable with QMK. * https://github.com/wizarddata/Blue-Wizard-Mod https://github.com/wizarddata/Blue-Wizard-Mod - Doesn't support QMK but does support ZMK but is bluetooth. Great board. I picked the kint up on some pcbway type service, the blue wizard I got off ebay.
        sleepybrett 3y ago
        not ebay, etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/926272734/kinesis-advantage-bluetooth-controller?show_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details https://www.etsy.com/listing/926272734/kinesis-advantage-blu...
      - dmm 3y ago
        I replaced the controller board in my Kinesis Advantage with a QMK-based KinT and I highly recommend it: https://github.com/kinx-project/kint https://github.com/kinx-project/kint
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        yeah all the *doxes suck. I've been on advantages for 20+ years at this point and haven't had any of the RSI that prompted the switch since. Currently daily on a 360pro. Might want to sell it or reswitch it for something a little lighter and maybe even something linear. Maybe a silent red or lf red.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        Do you type S with the left shift? I think all the ergonomic keyboards assume you use the opposite hand for the shift key.
    - washadjeffmad 3y ago
      I bought and returned a Kinesis Advantage360 for a Realforce R3. The R3 isn't better, but if you don't possess the requisite mechanics for their ergonomics, there's no point in buying a Kinesis.
  - jseliger 3y ago
    A Kinesis Advtange: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-kinesis-advantage-unicomp-space-saver-and-das-keyboard-two-years-later/ https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k.... Well, a series of them. Now I have one from Upgrade Keyboards: https://upgradekeyboards.com/collections/kinesis-advantage360-keyboards https://upgradekeyboards.com/collections/kinesis-advantage36... with "Box White" keys. Very nice! My guess is that, for most people, myself included, once one has invested the time in learning any particular ergonomic keyboard (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, Ergodox, whatever), the switching costs are annoying that one just keeps using it A small number of people seem to get obsessed with the narcissism of small differences in terms of switches, or minute aspects of positioning, or similar matters, but I find that one hits diminishing returns quickly and it's less the keyboard than what's done with it.
    - smohare 3y ago
      [dead]
  - Paradigma11 3y ago
    I am using https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ and loving it.
- bibliotekka 3y ago
  After years of typing now I must continually adjust angle and type of keyboard to avoid stressing various RSIs too much. Standard keyboards now just hurt, even if they're nice.
- __mharrison__ 3y ago
  I used the EnduraPro for a few years. Moved to more ergonomic keyboards (ErgoDox and now Lily58) when my fingers and wrists started complaining. Have written multiple books with the new keyboards with no pain. YMMV.
- paulmd 3y ago
  I actually felt that the model M specifically gave me my first taste of RSI. The spring force is so much higher that after a while my fingers and wrists were just flatly sore. The problems began after I started gaming on it - and I'd been using them for work for a long time before that (5 years?). You tend to push a lot and push hard when gaming to be sure they key activates, and it's not really ideal for your fingers. And yes, they're "not good for gaming" but that's normally about the deadzone and reset, not just outright causing RSI. I ended up going through a period of trying out some other stuff, ended up with Rosewill RK9100BR, and then just went to a keychron k8 instead. I have a couple of those now.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- samatman 3y ago
  I'm in the same boat, but if Unicomp ever manufactures a split-key I might be willing to forgo thumb clusters and ortholinear layout. Might be. I do love me a buckling spring.
  - cduzz 3y ago
    If you're using a PC you can likely just get 2 keyboards. It'll use a little more desktop space but you can put them wherever you want. I've found that the mac doesn't respect "left keyboard shift right keyboard letter a for a capital A" which is annoying.
    - samatman 3y ago
      That's... creative, I'll give you that. That wouldn't leave room to put my trackball anywhere convenient. In fact, nothing about that sounds convenient, but if it works for you, more power to ya.
    - kadoban 3y ago
      For most people, "wherever you want" is going to be with the outside edges a bit wider than your shoulders and vaguely parallel to a little diagonal. That's not possible with really any pair of full keyboards I've ever had.
      - justsomehnguy 3y ago
        Space them vertically. The left one to the top, giving you a space on the right for the mouse. Or the right one to the to top, then your mouse would be under it.
      - cduzz 3y ago
        I just moved them around until it was comfortable; it ended up with them being a bit further apart than shoulder width, the keyboards certainly weren't close to bumping into each other even though they were standard garbage 101 key USB business keyboards; I think they end up about a foot apart at the closest. Give it a try.
- klooney 3y ago
  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ortholinear-split-ergonomic-model-f-keyboard-auction-winners/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ortholinear-split-er... you could have both
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    Three things worth noting: 1. It's out of stock, and I don't know if Ellipse is going to make more. 2. Even if it were "in stock", it would take months (possibly/probably more than a year) to get. 3. It requires two USB cables. This is stated plainly on the site, but it's buried in the numbered list of "important notes". I have one. Unfortunately, I haven't used it for more than a few minutes due to that last point. I had envisioned using it on my work system, but requiring two USB cables kills it for me. I don't know if the Mac is unique in this, but it only registers modifier keys for the keyboard issuing them—that is, holding shift, cmd, etc. on one side of the keyboard doesn't work for the other side. For instance, cmd+o doesn't work unless the cmd key is on the right as well. There are utilities you can install to get this functionality working, but I can't install them on my work machine (and even on my personal system, I couldn't get them to work, so YMMV). I had high hopes for this keyboard, but it's likely I'll sell it due to problems with my setup. Mechanically, it's exactly what you'd expect: a Model F in a reasonably (if outdated) ergonomic package. While a leap ahead of standard layouts, the Ergodox has always had some pretty big flaws, especially in the thumb cluster keys. In terms of feeling, the Model F is definitely different than the Model M. Some days I'd call it better; some days I'd call it worse. Claims that it's night-and-day are exaggerated, IMO. (I have extensive experience with the New Model F F62 and various Model Ms over the years, from old IBMs to modern Unicomps.)
rootusrootus 3y ago
I've got one of these. It's difficult to beat the feel of those keys, that is for sure. But at full tilt I think the neighbors across the street can hear me typing. So it primarily sits in my closet these days, while I use a much quieter (but far from silent) CODE mechanical keyboard.
- geophile 3y ago
  Yeah, it's loud. My wife complains about it. (I didn't realize how loud until I got hearing aids.) Fortunately, we have offices far apart from each other.
  - h2odragon 3y ago
    I've had complaints that a burst of typing sounded like a spray paint can being shaken. I beat other kinds of keyboards to death in months. My unicomp is into year 4. I had a stack of real Model M's from 87 to 93, that I got from a school system and refurbished in '97. Those lasted me an average of 3 years each. I got the unicomp after trying a few of the other brands in the gap after pounding the last of that stack into dysfunction.
    - JasonFruit 3y ago
      That sounds like a you problem, not a keyboard problem. A good mechanical keyboard should last better than that. Excessive force doesn't code faster.
      - h2odragon 3y ago
        I have skin problems, and shed enormous amounts of dead skin dust. Often with blood. Its unusually corrosive, just to add fun.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        I wear cotton gloves (very simple ones) for computer'ing because my hands are abnormally sweaty and I quite literally can't grasp the mouse or feel the keyboard properly otherwise. Just gallons of sweat everywhere. Before I would make mice shiny and keyboards grimy very quickly, but since I started gloving up I've not had a single mice or keyboard die on me.
nonethewiser 3y ago
Unicomp has been around making essentially model M keyboards for a long time. How new is this new one?
- BirAdam 3y ago
  It’s a new mold for the plastics as the original IBM/Lexmark one was wearing out. Also, it comes with USB and meta keys.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    They've been making these with USB for many years. And meta keys, AFAIK, though the most recent meta keys have pictures where some of the older ones had blanks.
jtriangle 3y ago
This is quite cool, but I really don't understand some people's affinity toward buckling spring switches, they're loud and odd feeling, not nearly as consistent as anything cherry or their alternatives are offering.
- nubinetwork 3y ago
  I remember using these in the 90s and my hands would feel numb after an hour. No issues using modern keyboards, but the constant boing from typing is still firmly stuck in my head.
- geophile 3y ago
  I really don't understand some people's affinity toward Cherry and similar keys, they're quiet and odd feeling.
- TillE 3y ago
  I think a lot of nostalgia built up in that ~10 year period where it was really difficult to find a new mechanical keyboard, so the old Model M (and to a lesser extent the Apple Extended Keyboard) developed something of a cult following. Personally I've settled on Kailh BOX White switches as pleasantly clicky without too much resistance.
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    My model Ms are older than me, I don't think it's nostalgia.
    - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
      Considering that most people who used model Ms in the era just threw them away (I remember the days you'd find them on resale bins by the kilo), I don't know what it is.
- lazzlazzlazz 3y ago
  I have one of these, having never used one growing up (so lacking the nostalgia) and I love the thing. To this day, no other keyboard can compete in terms of synchronizing the tactile "click" and the onscreen response. The only reason I don't use it more widely is because it's so loud and large.
imaginarypedro 3y ago
I had a classic 101-key Unicomp Model M that I purchased while they were apparently having quality problems due to worn out tooling. The keys felt different than my real Model Ms and the spacebar frequently stuck. They've since refurbished the tooling and I hear the quality is back to the high level you would expect. For me though I just chose to retire the Unicomp and refurbish my real Model Ms. I bought three about 20 years ago from https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ and sent them back last year. They're as good as new and they feel so good to type on. Plus I don't have those damned extra keys the "New" Model M has.
- geophile 3y ago
  Can confirm. I owned Unicomps before and after their retooling. The old ones developed problems quickly, and I've been on a new one since shortly after it was available, (three years?). Reliable, and as loud and clicky as it should be.
- flir 3y ago
  I remember stacks of Model M's at radio rallies and other flea-market-type places. You couldn't give them away. If only I'd known...
  - intrasight 3y ago
    So true. Worth more than most old computers now.
  - amatecha 3y ago
    Yeah, I dumpster-dived a couple (original IBM Model M's), years ago, from the same PC shops that were throwing out working Pentium III / 4 systems. Totally great condition and still working problem-free today! I did have to purchase a couple keycaps on ebay as they were lost when thrown out into the dumpster (knocked off due to hitting other stuff), but really a minor issue!
    - lproven 3y ago
      Yup. I have 5 or 6 of them, all rescued from being thrown out.
23B1 3y ago
Not sure if this breaks HN's rules, but I'd love to hear anyones suggestions on favorite split keyboards. There's a lot of homebrew boards out there that're very small/light but I have sausage fingers and the demeanor of an orangutan. https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Ergonomic-Keyboard/dp/B0BCHMGZMD https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Erg... ^closest I've found, but $$$
- argiopetech 3y ago
  I didn't know Kinesis had a split board. Thanks for the tip. The ErgoDox/Moonlander are in that price range and are highly thought of.
- gsamuelhays 3y ago
  I supported the Keyboardio kickstarter and purchased two Model 01s which I liked very much. The problems I had with it were twofold: first - I use my pointer finger for the "c" key, which was very difficult and I had to switch to my middle finger. This adjustment was made with a little effort and eventually my brain was able to switch depending on which keyboard my hands were fit to - sort of like a dialect. The much larger problem was that _both_ the 'b' keys broke within the first couple of years. It did not quite fit the heirloom quality point for me and I didn't feel like taking it apart and figuring out what was going on. Since then, I have switched to Mistel split keyboard which have the exact feel as any other qwerty keyboard and I haven't looked back (though I did rebind some of the keys, like the arrows for example, to match the vi movement keys). I'm interested in keymouse (keymouse.com) but frankly don't feel like dropping a bunch of money on another experimental design. So I've got two Mistels for both my daily drivers and will likely continue with that brand as I've been very happy with the quality.
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    Was your Model 01 with the clicky switches or the quiet ones. I believe the clicky ones had some issues. Mine did; one of the switches just sends keypresses on repeat. I could fix it, but it's more work than I care to put in right now. The Model 100 uses MX-style switches and has some small design improvements here and there. No complaints on my end, but I haven't put it through as much torture as my Model 01. ETA: Which Mistel did you get? They look interesting.
atan2 3y ago
I have a Unicomp New model M and I used for a long time. The only reason I am using something else is because it kept waking the baby up and apparently I should "get a less noisy keyboard like a normal person."
- temp0826 3y ago
  Fwiw, open office with short cubicle walls + standing desks that put your desk surface above the wall + mech keyboards was the bane of my existence. Appreciate having some awareness and compassion for those around you.
  - Lammy 3y ago
    Your ire is better directed upward in the management chain at the people who chose your office layout and furniture. I'm not sorry for my mechanical keyboard lol
  - neilv 3y ago
    That sounds almost designed to prevent work. :) Initially, ~5 ft. cube walls were good enough when most of us had Sun Type 4 keyboards. Then we got some IBM RS/6000 units, with clacky keyboards. Your eyes go a little wide the first time, "Oooh... this is... loud... and nice..." as you start typing faster. I think that type of keyboard was made for people who crave power, not for the nerves of anyone else in their office building floor. (Never let the clacky PC keyboard people discover the Selectric II typewriter. Secretaries not only knew everything going on, and not only controlled access, but they also collectively tricked those outside their guild into never experiencing the exhilaration of Selectric II.)
QuinnyPig 3y ago
These are the second loudest keyboards I've ever used. The first loudest plays a sound on every keypress (a loud typewriter keypress), with the sound instead changing to me yelling "DING!" whenever that key is <enter>. This is done in software, and I'm certain everyone who's ever had a hand in writing it regrets it.
- montag 3y ago
  I have a vague memory of setting up a Windows 3.11 machine at my dad's office to emit typewriter clacking from the PC speaker on keypress - and a separate carriage return ding for the enter key...I'm sure no one was annoyed!
- nomel 3y ago
  Not sure why you're being voted down. That's the reality of this keyboard [1]. It's the loudest keyboard I've ever used, besides a (hardware) typewriter. It's ludicrous loud, compared to something like a modern notebook keyboard. Just as I did when I had it, and others did to me, everyone else in the room will be driven crazy with the typing. This keyboard requires being alone in a room, with a door. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXJzmky2DaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXJzmky2DaI
romwell 3y ago
Huh. Neat, I guess. I was lucky enough to get an original IBM Model M keyboard from a friend when the lab he was at was clearing out their old equipment. Plugged it in a few years back through a USB-to-PS/2 adapter when my basic Logitech keyboard crapped out for no reason. Mapped CapsLock to the "Win" (Super) key, and... ...still using it, without feeling that anything's missing. Some things have reached their peak form, I guess. A 3-speed city bicycle is one of them; IBM Model M keyboard is another. Glad there's a company out there making it.
- lproven 3y ago
  Exactly so. I remap CapsLock to Super, and still use Model Ms today, via generic cheapo PS/2-to-USB convertors. (Any convertor with an LED on it should work, or that has 2 inputs; that means it's an active device.) I tried an original Unicomp and it wasn't the same. Not even close to as nice to use. I doubt the "new" one is fully up to spec either. I have been typing on these things for about 35 years now, and no RSI so far. Perhaps because they give my hand and arm muscles and tendons a good workout every day...?
vunderba 3y ago
As an aside and a huge lover of mechanical keyboards since the original IBM model M with the buckler springs, I picked up a Keychron Q5 Pro a few months ago and really like it. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wi... It's pretty easy to replace the key caps and it has a very good tactile feel to it. It does weigh as much as a houseboat but that's fine as I prefer it to stay stationary. One thing that makes their keyboards stand out over almost any other mechanicals is it has a means of quickly swapping between three different Bluetooth pairings, so I have it paired with three different computers. Now if only I could find an equivalent mouse with a mechanical switch underneath it that let me swap between three different computers wirelessly via BT I would be set...
- blairbeckwith 3y ago
  I am not sure about the rest of their nice, but at least the Logitech MX Master 3 allows you to switch between 3 paired bluetooth devices via a button on the bottom.
- geophile 3y ago
  It sounds pretty nice, but it's a non-starter for me. I am highly dependent on key bindings for the cluster of six keys: Ins/Del/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown. This cluster used to be pretty common but is increasingly rare. The Unicomp has it, the Keychron does not.
  - ywain 3y ago
    The Q5 Pro is a 96% layout, but Keychron also has quite a few 100% layouts: https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards?sort_by=manual&filter.p.tag=100%25+Layout&filter.v.availability=1 https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards?sort_by=m...
    - geophile 3y ago
      Okay, now we’re talkin’.
adrianmonk 3y ago
As long as we're talking mechanical keyboards, do they all require maintenance just to keep working, or is the basic Cooler Master one I bought just a dud? After only like 2 years, many of the keys stopped working reliably. They'd double type or fail to register. I looked into it, and this seems to be a common issue with many mechanical keyboards. I tried some of the recommended solutions (blow dust out, use contact cleaner), and it improved things, but it's still not quite right. I do like the feel, but I don't like the maintenance or lack of longevity. I'd be willing to pay more for a mechanical keyboard that is darned near maintenance free, but I'm not sure whether such a thing actually exists.
- quercusa 3y ago
  I dump the hair, crumbs and fingernail bits out of my Model M every couple of years - that's about it.
- roblh 3y ago
  They shouldn’t need that kind of maintenance unless you’re using it in an unusually dirty or dusty environment, as far as I know. I have a coolermaster tenkeyless with mx blues that I got about 10 years ago as a main keyboard that has worked without issue.
- bpye 3y ago
  I've had a Cooler Master tenkeyless for nearly 10 years and I still use it. I have had to repair a couple solder joints over time however.
- ahefner 3y ago
  I think they're generally reliable. I have a pair of Filco keyboards, one five years old, the other ten, and I haven't had any trouble except I did have to open the older one up and clean it recently as a couple switches had gotten gunked up.
- amatecha 3y ago
  They should require essentially zero maintenance except maybe cleaning out all the dust/lint/crumbs/etc. that fall in between the keys. The actual key switches should last like... 20 years or more. What switches in your Coolermaster? I have a Coolermaster Masterkeys Pro S (Cherry MX Brown switches) and have used it for like 7+ years with no problems, all keys 100%-responsive and no double-actuations that I've ever observed.
geophile 3y ago
Hey kids. Stop whining about Model M and Unicomp keyboards being loud. You haven't typed on an IBM 029 card punch. That puts a Model M to shame. You haven't typed on an original ASR 33 terminal. That puts an IBM 029 card punch to shame. My hearing is shot. I'm not sure if it's the rock music or those old keyboards.
- eichin 3y ago
  The ASR-33 starts out loud when you're not even touching it :-) Can't beat a linotype for surround, though. Clanks and thumps from all around you...
doublepg23 3y ago
Love the New Model M keyboard. I have one for my personal setup and one for my work setup. Recent batches also use Rpi Picos now which let you flash custom firmware. https://github.com/purdeaandrei/vial-qmk-overnumpad-and-aristides-2862/releases/tag/v0.2 https://github.com/purdeaandrei/vial-qmk-overnumpad-and-aris... In theory, they're probably "worse" than a brand new IBM made Model M was but I think people overestimate the feel of extant Model Ms that have been around for 30, 40 years now. I also found PS/2 -> USB adapters to be pretty flaky after a few years. My comparison is a IBM made SSK and Lexmark made regular M.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- breckenedge 3y ago
  Thanks, I had no idea these were running a Pico, yay QMK
  - guenthert 3y ago
    The new "New" Model M Keyboard does afaik. My ten-key-less (space saver) (anno 2019 or so) has an older MCU which apparently doesn't get the USB protocol quite right. Every now and then (perhaps once a week) the keyboard isn't recognized at boot (currently Windows 10, but it's the same in Linux). I have it connected to a switchable USB hub, so that's not a big deal. More annoying is, that rarely (about once a month) the 'Q' key is dead (real fun when a password contains it). Most annoying is that the 'T' key tends to bounce (that developed only after two or three years of use, so probably not firmware related). Overall, I'm still satisfied, but can't wholeheartedly recommend it. Unicomp offers (or offered?) to repair those older "New" Model M (replace the MCU), but I moved internationally meanwhile, so this probably not an option anymore. I wished, they would offer the MCU daughterboard separately, so that I could install it myself.
    - doublepg23 3y ago
      Yeah I also had hiccups with the USB. Nothing as extreme as you but it wouldn't be detected by my BIOS/UEFI - that was fun to debug! :D The new rpi module is flawless though, great change.
tamrix 3y ago
Used a unicomp Model M 8+ years ago. Spilled coffee on it and it was dead dead. It's a very loud keyboard. You couldn't use one today if you had to type during a zoom or teams meeting.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Oh thank God, no RGB LEDs.
yukkuri 3y ago
My Unicomp model M is good and I appreciate it daily. Fit and finish are just a little cheaper than an original 1980s IBM (which I also had but it finally died) but it's USB and feels good to type on. I actually use the OS key so having that is a plus for me
MrBrobot 3y ago
I had one of these exact keyboards (at least the same keycap color scheme, etc). It was actually really pleasant to use, but it was far too large for my liking. I ended up going back to 60% boards with blue switches.
Koshkin 3y ago
Give me my L-shaped Enter key back please!
- rvbissell 3y ago
  Abomination. That's where \| should be.
op00to 3y ago
I grew up a half mile away from a major IBM office. My friends and I would sneak through the woods and go dumpster diving. We would routinely get 3-4 new in box keyboards, plenty of floppies, even real fancy chairs!
- mometsi 3y ago
  This sounds like the setup to a Stephen King novel about malevolent office supplies.
  - phendrenad2 3y ago
    They were thrown away for a reason...
    - euroderf 3y ago
      That clicking is coming from INSIDE THE KEYBOARD
  - op00to 3y ago
    More like a horror story for those poor security guard that wanted to watch tv instead of follow us around in their cars!
neom 3y ago
There is also a mac version: https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NEW_M_MAC https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Prod...
Diti 3y ago
Sigh. Yet another keyboard with the legacy AZERTY French layout and no option for the standardized (AFNOR AZERTY+) layout.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  Does that show that the uptake for AZERTY+ has been below expectations so far? Relevant context for others: TIL that "it is practically impossible to write French correctly using a keyboard that has been bought in France", says the country's government. Because the AZERTY layout makes typing certain accented letters difficult (especially capitals), many don't use them, changing the language <https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_that_it_is_practically_impossible_to_write/ https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_th...>
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    I think that is not the problem of a physical keyboard but about Microsoft Windows still not being ready for the desktop after so many decades. I've been able easily to write accented letters on linux since forever it seems.
jupp0r 3y ago
Love mine. Make sure you have fellow appreciative keyboard nerds around you in the office, muggles will definitely complain.
- 0ckpuppet 3y ago
  smarter people did harder work in rooms full of loud loud keyboards.
  - jupp0r 3y ago
    They probably had their own offices or at least cubicles.
paulmd 3y ago
have they solved the power-on draw problems? that was the thing that finally soured me on them... my dell optiplex at work couldn't reliably handle the power surge especially during soft reboots and had a tendency to hang the whole system. worked fine when I was mostly in the office (and when I had coworkers who could reboot it for me if needed) but once we went WFH I had to have them unplug it until I eventually got my stuff...
- guenthert 3y ago
  Never noticed a power-draw problem. Given that even old USB is mandated to supply at least 500mA and that there's little more than a MCU inside the keyboard, I find it hard to believe that power (or even just in-rush current) could be the problem.
bombcar 3y ago
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/ has some similar things. The Model F 122 puts the Model M out to pasture.
- grugagag 3y ago
  That vertical bar Newsletter / Project Updates that wouldn’t go away, I just had to close the tab…
  - Lammy 3y ago
    uBlock to the rescue: www.modelfkeyboards.com###omnisend-dynamic-container www.modelfkeyboards.com##.userway_buttons_wrapper www.modelfkeyboards.com##.scroll-top-right (Floating vertical bar, floating accessibility button, and floating "jump to top" button, respectively)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tiltowait 3y ago
  If you can get one in a reasonable amount of time. It took about 1.5 years to get my F62, and a year to get my split Model F. They're definitely nice keyboards, though IMO the "F" switch is a bit overrated. The main advantage for me is the ability to have a 60% keyboard.
Bayaz 3y ago
They should try to cash in on the lucrative custom keycap market. When my last Unicomp model died years ago, I replaced it with a modular board and Box Navy switches to simulate the buckling spring feel. It’s close, but not exactly the same. I’d switch back to a Model M if there were custom keycaps.
- Lammy 3y ago
  If you go old enough the actual IBM-made keyboards do have swappable keycaps separate from the key stems.
- jwells89 3y ago
  Yeah, the custom keycap scene is dominated by Cherry MX-compatible sets. There’s a handful of custom caps for Kailh Choc low profile switches and even smaller handful for Topre, but if you’re a fan of Alps or especially buckling springs there’s basically nothing. This is a big reason why most of my boards are MX-type.
dartharva 3y ago
I will once again ask you guys to check out TVS Gold keyboards, they are a functional successor to the Model M and ubiquitous in India. Did I mention they are also really cheap? https://www.tvs-e.in/keyboards-and-mice/gold-pro/ https://www.tvs-e.in/keyboards-and-mice/gold-pro/
- Nursie 3y ago
  It's a nice looking keyboard, but it lacks the thing that makes the Model M really special - buckling springs.
- flir 3y ago
  Switches, right?
Nursie 3y ago
Was just thinking how much I miss my old model M. I got a stack of them from an old girlfriend when (and this is back in maybe 1999) a place she was working at was getting rid of a whole load of old IBM PCs. They were 486s in the age of the Pentium 2/3, so basically useless, but each one came with a PS2 model M. I used that keyboard for about 10 years, then gave it to a friend when I was moving country. I moved back, and they gave it back. I used it for another few years, though a little less as it is so loud. Then I moved country again and gave it to a workmate who is a real keyboard enthusiast kind of guy, and I understand it's now back in daily use. It's bigger than I want these days - I'm a fan of the TKL keyboard now. But I see they do a Mini! https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M Hmmm....
CommieBobDole 3y ago
I tried one of the new Unicomps at work and it was fine, but it has a different (and in my opinion, lesser) feel and sound than the real Model M. I'm not sure what sort of plastic the Unicomp uses for the case, but it's thin and hard and resonant. The real model M uses a thick ABS case that dampens vibrations and the resulting noise/harsh feel. I have continued using my old (June 2, 1987) Model M at home, and now that I don't work at the office anymore, it's the only keyboard I use. I keep the Unicomp on hand in case of emergencies, but it mostly just gathers dust.
cduzz 3y ago
I've got a couple M keyboards floating around. I grew up using an IBM PC with the F keyboard; when I got my first computer I got a "focus 2002" keyboard that also had the mechanical (but not BS) keys. Worked a university and availed myself of their "surplus junk" sales every 2nd tuesday of the month and adopted many a weird piece of hardware, and eventually had a stack of 3 decent M keyboards that I'd rotate through on my various systems. Decades later, I got tired of the junky dell USB keyboards and tried one out in the WFH days and discovered ... too loud, too big, kinda too annoying. I did, however, come upon a lexmark M4-1 keyboard, which has been an absolute delight. Good typing feel, has the trackpoint thing in the middle, not too big. Really quite wonderful. I don't even really notice the lack of all the fancy new keys -- I remap the capslock to whatever and it's almost like I'm back on my model f (or old "unix" keyboards of the 90s) with the control key next to the A. It's not the control key -- my muscle memory has firmly moved it to the bottom left / right, but the OS "meta" key kinda serves the same role. I even got one of the model Ms with the trackpoint in the middle (no, not a black one) -- and I just don't like the feel as much as the m4-1, which the internet says is based on early IBM laptop keyboards. Too bad the USB/PS2 dongle sometimes drops out and the keyboard reboots and flashes the 3 leds, which is somewhat annoying.
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  I still prefer the F to the M.. however I can't really type of qwerty boards anymore for any length of time without risking RSI. Kinesis Advantage for me for the rest of my life.
  - muro 3y ago
    +1 to Kinesis Advantage. I prefer the "original" / non-360 for its advantage (sorry) of just working as soon as it's connected to a computer. The 360 needs to pair it's halves that results in a disconnect/reconnect dance which annoys me a lot. I assume it's only due to my setup, where I have two laptops connected by a USB-C to a monitor, all accessories are in turn connected to the monitor.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
bosch_mind 3y ago
I ordered one of these and returned it instantly. Very cheap and weird compared to nice and modern mechanical keyboards you get today. I really wanted an original model M but didn’t want to deal with weird ps2 conversion stuff.
- beloch 3y ago
  There are still a surprising number of motherboards being made with a PS/2 port. I suspect some motherboard companies have people who still cherish their Model-M's, because support for them seems to be flawless. How many other completely unmodified thirty-plus year-old peripherals can you plug into a brand new computer and expect to just work?
  - toast0 3y ago
    Why would you buy a motherboard without a ps/2 port? They're handy, and there's enough boards with them that it doesn't cost extra. I think modern cpus include the ps/2 handling in their legacy cruft section, so it's just a bit of signal routing and a connector.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    A very few businesses with tight security requirements will allow PS/2 keyboards but not USB, for security.
snvzz 3y ago
Moved on to Topre switches. I don't miss model M; pre-topre mechanical is just obsolete technology now.
- MengerSponge 3y ago
  I wrote my dissertation on a HHKB2, and I use a realforce in my office now. It doesn't look "weird" but it's an absolute delight to type on.
  - dcchambers 3y ago
    Would love to take a look at that paper if you're willing to share :)
    - dcchambers 3y ago
      Oh, disregard this. I misread your post thinking you wrote your dissertation about the HHKB, not that you literally typed it up using one, haha.
      - MengerSponge 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence :p
projektfu 3y ago
I bought one of their keyboards back maybe 6 years ago and it simply died one day after warranty but not long onto its life. I would consider trying again but the price is just too high to risk it.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Man I love those switches, and had a Model M for years... but I hate the layout and am not a huge fan of the keycaps. Useless CapsLocks where control should be is one of the worst legacies of the IBM PC, along with the x86 instruction set. I would love to see the buckling spring keyswitches paired with some doubleshot SA profile keycaps.
jachee 3y ago
I daily drive one of these. There’s nothing quite like the crunch of an actual buckling spring. I wish there were a bit more of a customization market, but I’m pretty happy with mine, despite it being beige on beige.
diffeomorphism 3y ago
Somewhat relevant, you can get the sound (but not feel) of this keyboard as software: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring Might even be in the repos depending on your linux distro, e.g apt install bucklespring
hlandau 3y ago
Case is only available in black? Wish they wouldn't put that hideous logo on it. I've heard claims that the keycap shapes have decayed as the original injection moulding moulds have worn. But judging by comments above it sounds like they have resolved that. Audio keys feel like a necessity for me nowadays. The Ducky one3 I use puts them where the LEDs usually go and I feel that works really well. There's also existing Model Ms but lack of Super keys is a total dealbreaker for me.
_giorgio_ 3y ago
Keys are too heavy. Model F springs are way better.
- markdoubleyou 3y ago
  This was my first mechanical keyboard, and I had the same reaction. My fingers would feel fatigued after an hour of heavy use.
orthoxerox 3y ago
I bought a couple Unicomp keyboards in late 2011, I don't even remember the model name, something like SpaceSaver. I'm currently typing this comment on one of them and the other one is in another home. I love the clickiness, the heft, the fact that it's built like a tank. I am not a big fan of the PS/2 (2011 me worried about USB rollover and didn't expect PS/2 to die out) and my coworkers weren't big fans of the clickiness at all, but it's one of my favorite possessions.
alextingle 3y ago
Unicomp's customer service was absolutely terrible when I bought from them. I ordered a black keyboard. They spent ages doing nothing. When I complained, they finally shipped me... a beige keyboard. When I notified them, the rep said (and I quote), "I don't really see the problem... can't you use it as is?" He refused to replace it, and reluctantly refunded me the purchase price (but not the extremely expensive postage). So if I wanted to get what I actually ordered, I'd have had to start the whole tortuous process from scratch, and still be out of pocket. The whole experience was ridiculous.
- cheshireoctopus 3y ago
  Hate to say it as I like Unicomp as a concept, but had a related experience. Purchased a keyboard from them back in 2015/2016 and really enjoyed the few months that it worked. There is something about those springs... When it stopped functioning a short while later I contacted Unicomp asking how I could fix and/or replace it and was told I'd have to buy a new one. Probably meant to be as I developed the need for an ergonomic keyboard. Purchased a Kinesis Freestyle2 and it's worked without issue.
intrasight 3y ago
I just notice today when I looked at their web site again that they also have a Mini M
digitalsushi 3y ago
I recommend owners purchase an automotive pick set. It's given me hundreds of idle-plaything hours stuck on zoom calls, picking dog hairs out from between the keys like a neurosurgeon.
- Macha 3y ago
  I use the key puller that came in the box with one of my keyboards for that. It's led to some awkward moments in calls as the gap in the handle is just big enough to get my finger in easy and make it hard to take out.
deeesstoronto 3y ago
I really enjoy typing on the unicomp buckling spring keyboard; I've had an older model for a long time. It seemed very well built on the outside, however eventually a number of keys stopped functioning. Taking it apart, I found that the plastic rivets holding the assembly together failed. It was repairable by drilling and replacing the rivets with machine screws. Although original model M's were built in the same way, the design or manufacture of these rivets on my unit is completely insufficient. I'd expect better for a keyboard in this price range. This also seems to be a common problem based on scouring the forums. I'd hope this would be re-designed in newer models, however also don't hold out much hope.
- tiltowait 3y ago
  I wonder if the "New" Model M has the same problem, or if they've finally updated/replaced their tooling. AFAIK they were/are still using the old machines from the 80s and 90s.

134 points by Phileosopher 3y ago

I used one for years and liked it, but, after switching to an ergonomic keyboard, I wouldn't want to primarily move back to a standard one.

slig 3y ago
Which ergonomic model did you choose?
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  Not OP, but I use the kinesis advantage but if I was going to pick one again I'd go with the ergodox, also had a keyboardio but switching between types is kinda tricky and annoying
  - adregan 3y ago
    Anecdotal, but ergodox flared up my RSI terribly. I think it might be the shear size of it and overstretching my pinkies with the shift keys pulling double duty with parenthesis. I’m now a happy user of the kinesis advantage (though the configuration software pales in comparison to the ergodox) and feel so much better.
    - ryan-c 3y ago
      There's a number of options for replacing the control board on the kinesis advantage (or advantage2) with one that runs QMK, providing the same sort of configurability as the ergodox, and the advantage 360 pro runs on ZMK.
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        I can suggest the following, I had three advantage 2s before picking up my 360pro. I modded all of the 2s with the following boards: * https://github.com/kinx-project/kint https://github.com/kinx-project/kint - Great board, requires usb of course. Programmable with QMK. * https://github.com/wizarddata/Blue-Wizard-Mod https://github.com/wizarddata/Blue-Wizard-Mod - Doesn't support QMK but does support ZMK but is bluetooth. Great board. I picked the kint up on some pcbway type service, the blue wizard I got off ebay.
        sleepybrett 3y ago
        not ebay, etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/926272734/kinesis-advantage-bluetooth-controller?show_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details https://www.etsy.com/listing/926272734/kinesis-advantage-blu...
    - dmm 3y ago
      I replaced the controller board in my Kinesis Advantage with a QMK-based KinT and I highly recommend it: https://github.com/kinx-project/kint https://github.com/kinx-project/kint
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      yeah all the *doxes suck. I've been on advantages for 20+ years at this point and haven't had any of the RSI that prompted the switch since. Currently daily on a 360pro. Might want to sell it or reswitch it for something a little lighter and maybe even something linear. Maybe a silent red or lf red.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Do you type S with the left shift? I think all the ergonomic keyboards assume you use the opposite hand for the shift key.
  - washadjeffmad 3y ago
    I bought and returned a Kinesis Advantage360 for a Realforce R3. The R3 isn't better, but if you don't possess the requisite mechanics for their ergonomics, there's no point in buying a Kinesis.
- jseliger 3y ago
  A Kinesis Advtange: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-kinesis-advantage-unicomp-space-saver-and-das-keyboard-two-years-later/ https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k.... Well, a series of them. Now I have one from Upgrade Keyboards: https://upgradekeyboards.com/collections/kinesis-advantage360-keyboards https://upgradekeyboards.com/collections/kinesis-advantage36... with "Box White" keys. Very nice! My guess is that, for most people, myself included, once one has invested the time in learning any particular ergonomic keyboard (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, Ergodox, whatever), the switching costs are annoying that one just keeps using it A small number of people seem to get obsessed with the narcissism of small differences in terms of switches, or minute aspects of positioning, or similar matters, but I find that one hits diminishing returns quickly and it's less the keyboard than what's done with it.
  - smohare 3y ago
    [dead]
- Paradigma11 3y ago
  I am using https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ and loving it.
bibliotekka 3y ago
After years of typing now I must continually adjust angle and type of keyboard to avoid stressing various RSIs too much. Standard keyboards now just hurt, even if they're nice.
__mharrison__ 3y ago
I used the EnduraPro for a few years. Moved to more ergonomic keyboards (ErgoDox and now Lily58) when my fingers and wrists started complaining. Have written multiple books with the new keyboards with no pain. YMMV.
paulmd 3y ago
I actually felt that the model M specifically gave me my first taste of RSI. The spring force is so much higher that after a while my fingers and wrists were just flatly sore. The problems began after I started gaming on it - and I'd been using them for work for a long time before that (5 years?). You tend to push a lot and push hard when gaming to be sure they key activates, and it's not really ideal for your fingers. And yes, they're "not good for gaming" but that's normally about the deadzone and reset, not just outright causing RSI. I ended up going through a period of trying out some other stuff, ended up with Rosewill RK9100BR, and then just went to a keychron k8 instead. I have a couple of those now.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
samatman 3y ago
I'm in the same boat, but if Unicomp ever manufactures a split-key I might be willing to forgo thumb clusters and ortholinear layout. Might be. I do love me a buckling spring.
- cduzz 3y ago
  If you're using a PC you can likely just get 2 keyboards. It'll use a little more desktop space but you can put them wherever you want. I've found that the mac doesn't respect "left keyboard shift right keyboard letter a for a capital A" which is annoying.
  - samatman 3y ago
    That's... creative, I'll give you that. That wouldn't leave room to put my trackball anywhere convenient. In fact, nothing about that sounds convenient, but if it works for you, more power to ya.
  - kadoban 3y ago
    For most people, "wherever you want" is going to be with the outside edges a bit wider than your shoulders and vaguely parallel to a little diagonal. That's not possible with really any pair of full keyboards I've ever had.
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      Space them vertically. The left one to the top, giving you a space on the right for the mouse. Or the right one to the to top, then your mouse would be under it.
    - cduzz 3y ago
      I just moved them around until it was comfortable; it ended up with them being a bit further apart than shoulder width, the keyboards certainly weren't close to bumping into each other even though they were standard garbage 101 key USB business keyboards; I think they end up about a foot apart at the closest. Give it a try.
klooney 3y ago
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ortholinear-split-ergonomic-model-f-keyboard-auction-winners/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ortholinear-split-er... you could have both
- tiltowait 3y ago
  Three things worth noting: 1. It's out of stock, and I don't know if Ellipse is going to make more. 2. Even if it were "in stock", it would take months (possibly/probably more than a year) to get. 3. It requires two USB cables. This is stated plainly on the site, but it's buried in the numbered list of "important notes". I have one. Unfortunately, I haven't used it for more than a few minutes due to that last point. I had envisioned using it on my work system, but requiring two USB cables kills it for me. I don't know if the Mac is unique in this, but it only registers modifier keys for the keyboard issuing them—that is, holding shift, cmd, etc. on one side of the keyboard doesn't work for the other side. For instance, cmd+o doesn't work unless the cmd key is on the right as well. There are utilities you can install to get this functionality working, but I can't install them on my work machine (and even on my personal system, I couldn't get them to work, so YMMV). I had high hopes for this keyboard, but it's likely I'll sell it due to problems with my setup. Mechanically, it's exactly what you'd expect: a Model F in a reasonably (if outdated) ergonomic package. While a leap ahead of standard layouts, the Ergodox has always had some pretty big flaws, especially in the thumb cluster keys. In terms of feeling, the Model F is definitely different than the Model M. Some days I'd call it better; some days I'd call it worse. Claims that it's night-and-day are exaggerated, IMO. (I have extensive experience with the New Model F F62 and various Model Ms over the years, from old IBMs to modern Unicomps.)

rootusrootus 3y ago

I've got one of these. It's difficult to beat the feel of those keys, that is for sure. But at full tilt I think the neighbors across the street can hear me typing. So it primarily sits in my closet these days, while I use a much quieter (but far from silent) CODE mechanical keyboard.

geophile 3y ago
Yeah, it's loud. My wife complains about it. (I didn't realize how loud until I got hearing aids.) Fortunately, we have offices far apart from each other.
- h2odragon 3y ago
  I've had complaints that a burst of typing sounded like a spray paint can being shaken. I beat other kinds of keyboards to death in months. My unicomp is into year 4. I had a stack of real Model M's from 87 to 93, that I got from a school system and refurbished in '97. Those lasted me an average of 3 years each. I got the unicomp after trying a few of the other brands in the gap after pounding the last of that stack into dysfunction.
  - JasonFruit 3y ago
    That sounds like a you problem, not a keyboard problem. A good mechanical keyboard should last better than that. Excessive force doesn't code faster.
    - h2odragon 3y ago
      I have skin problems, and shed enormous amounts of dead skin dust. Often with blood. Its unusually corrosive, just to add fun.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        I wear cotton gloves (very simple ones) for computer'ing because my hands are abnormally sweaty and I quite literally can't grasp the mouse or feel the keyboard properly otherwise. Just gallons of sweat everywhere. Before I would make mice shiny and keyboards grimy very quickly, but since I started gloving up I've not had a single mice or keyboard die on me.

nonethewiser 3y ago

Unicomp has been around making essentially model M keyboards for a long time. How new is this new one?

BirAdam 3y ago
It’s a new mold for the plastics as the original IBM/Lexmark one was wearing out. Also, it comes with USB and meta keys.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  They've been making these with USB for many years. And meta keys, AFAIK, though the most recent meta keys have pictures where some of the older ones had blanks.

jtriangle 3y ago

This is quite cool, but I really don't understand some people's affinity toward buckling spring switches, they're loud and odd feeling, not nearly as consistent as anything cherry or their alternatives are offering.

nubinetwork 3y ago
I remember using these in the 90s and my hands would feel numb after an hour. No issues using modern keyboards, but the constant boing from typing is still firmly stuck in my head.
geophile 3y ago
I really don't understand some people's affinity toward Cherry and similar keys, they're quiet and odd feeling.
TillE 3y ago
I think a lot of nostalgia built up in that ~10 year period where it was really difficult to find a new mechanical keyboard, so the old Model M (and to a lesser extent the Apple Extended Keyboard) developed something of a cult following. Personally I've settled on Kailh BOX White switches as pleasantly clicky without too much resistance.
- doublepg23 3y ago
  My model Ms are older than me, I don't think it's nostalgia.
  - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
    Considering that most people who used model Ms in the era just threw them away (I remember the days you'd find them on resale bins by the kilo), I don't know what it is.
lazzlazzlazz 3y ago
I have one of these, having never used one growing up (so lacking the nostalgia) and I love the thing. To this day, no other keyboard can compete in terms of synchronizing the tactile "click" and the onscreen response. The only reason I don't use it more widely is because it's so loud and large.

imaginarypedro 3y ago

I had a classic 101-key Unicomp Model M that I purchased while they were apparently having quality problems due to worn out tooling. The keys felt different than my real Model Ms and the spacebar frequently stuck. They've since refurbished the tooling and I hear the quality is back to the high level you would expect. For me though I just chose to retire the Unicomp and refurbish my real Model Ms. I bought three about 20 years ago from https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ and sent them back last year. They're as good as new and they feel so good to type on. Plus I don't have those damned extra keys the "New" Model M has.

geophile 3y ago
Can confirm. I owned Unicomps before and after their retooling. The old ones developed problems quickly, and I've been on a new one since shortly after it was available, (three years?). Reliable, and as loud and clicky as it should be.
flir 3y ago
I remember stacks of Model M's at radio rallies and other flea-market-type places. You couldn't give them away. If only I'd known...
- intrasight 3y ago
  So true. Worth more than most old computers now.
- amatecha 3y ago
  Yeah, I dumpster-dived a couple (original IBM Model M's), years ago, from the same PC shops that were throwing out working Pentium III / 4 systems. Totally great condition and still working problem-free today! I did have to purchase a couple keycaps on ebay as they were lost when thrown out into the dumpster (knocked off due to hitting other stuff), but really a minor issue!
  - lproven 3y ago
    Yup. I have 5 or 6 of them, all rescued from being thrown out.

23B1 3y ago

Not sure if this breaks HN's rules, but I'd love to hear anyones suggestions on favorite split keyboards. There's a lot of homebrew boards out there that're very small/light but I have sausage fingers and the demeanor of an orangutan. https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Ergonomic-Keyboard/dp/B0BCHMGZMD https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Erg... ^closest I've found, but $$$

argiopetech 3y ago
I didn't know Kinesis had a split board. Thanks for the tip. The ErgoDox/Moonlander are in that price range and are highly thought of.
gsamuelhays 3y ago
I supported the Keyboardio kickstarter and purchased two Model 01s which I liked very much. The problems I had with it were twofold: first - I use my pointer finger for the "c" key, which was very difficult and I had to switch to my middle finger. This adjustment was made with a little effort and eventually my brain was able to switch depending on which keyboard my hands were fit to - sort of like a dialect. The much larger problem was that _both_ the 'b' keys broke within the first couple of years. It did not quite fit the heirloom quality point for me and I didn't feel like taking it apart and figuring out what was going on. Since then, I have switched to Mistel split keyboard which have the exact feel as any other qwerty keyboard and I haven't looked back (though I did rebind some of the keys, like the arrows for example, to match the vi movement keys). I'm interested in keymouse (keymouse.com) but frankly don't feel like dropping a bunch of money on another experimental design. So I've got two Mistels for both my daily drivers and will likely continue with that brand as I've been very happy with the quality.
- tiltowait 3y ago
  Was your Model 01 with the clicky switches or the quiet ones. I believe the clicky ones had some issues. Mine did; one of the switches just sends keypresses on repeat. I could fix it, but it's more work than I care to put in right now. The Model 100 uses MX-style switches and has some small design improvements here and there. No complaints on my end, but I haven't put it through as much torture as my Model 01. ETA: Which Mistel did you get? They look interesting.

atan2 3y ago

I have a Unicomp New model M and I used for a long time. The only reason I am using something else is because it kept waking the baby up and apparently I should "get a less noisy keyboard like a normal person."

temp0826 3y ago
Fwiw, open office with short cubicle walls + standing desks that put your desk surface above the wall + mech keyboards was the bane of my existence. Appreciate having some awareness and compassion for those around you.
- Lammy 3y ago
  Your ire is better directed upward in the management chain at the people who chose your office layout and furniture. I'm not sorry for my mechanical keyboard lol
- neilv 3y ago
  That sounds almost designed to prevent work. :) Initially, ~5 ft. cube walls were good enough when most of us had Sun Type 4 keyboards. Then we got some IBM RS/6000 units, with clacky keyboards. Your eyes go a little wide the first time, "Oooh... this is... loud... and nice..." as you start typing faster. I think that type of keyboard was made for people who crave power, not for the nerves of anyone else in their office building floor. (Never let the clacky PC keyboard people discover the Selectric II typewriter. Secretaries not only knew everything going on, and not only controlled access, but they also collectively tricked those outside their guild into never experiencing the exhilaration of Selectric II.)

QuinnyPig 3y ago

These are the second loudest keyboards I've ever used. The first loudest plays a sound on every keypress (a loud typewriter keypress), with the sound instead changing to me yelling "DING!" whenever that key is <enter>. This is done in software, and I'm certain everyone who's ever had a hand in writing it regrets it.

montag 3y ago
I have a vague memory of setting up a Windows 3.11 machine at my dad's office to emit typewriter clacking from the PC speaker on keypress - and a separate carriage return ding for the enter key...I'm sure no one was annoyed!
nomel 3y ago
Not sure why you're being voted down. That's the reality of this keyboard [1]. It's the loudest keyboard I've ever used, besides a (hardware) typewriter. It's ludicrous loud, compared to something like a modern notebook keyboard. Just as I did when I had it, and others did to me, everyone else in the room will be driven crazy with the typing. This keyboard requires being alone in a room, with a door. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXJzmky2DaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXJzmky2DaI

romwell 3y ago

Huh. Neat, I guess. I was lucky enough to get an original IBM Model M keyboard from a friend when the lab he was at was clearing out their old equipment. Plugged it in a few years back through a USB-to-PS/2 adapter when my basic Logitech keyboard crapped out for no reason. Mapped CapsLock to the "Win" (Super) key, and... ...still using it, without feeling that anything's missing. Some things have reached their peak form, I guess. A 3-speed city bicycle is one of them; IBM Model M keyboard is another. Glad there's a company out there making it.

lproven 3y ago
Exactly so. I remap CapsLock to Super, and still use Model Ms today, via generic cheapo PS/2-to-USB convertors. (Any convertor with an LED on it should work, or that has 2 inputs; that means it's an active device.) I tried an original Unicomp and it wasn't the same. Not even close to as nice to use. I doubt the "new" one is fully up to spec either. I have been typing on these things for about 35 years now, and no RSI so far. Perhaps because they give my hand and arm muscles and tendons a good workout every day...?

vunderba 3y ago

As an aside and a huge lover of mechanical keyboards since the original IBM model M with the buckler springs, I picked up a Keychron Q5 Pro a few months ago and really like it. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wi... It's pretty easy to replace the key caps and it has a very good tactile feel to it. It does weigh as much as a houseboat but that's fine as I prefer it to stay stationary. One thing that makes their keyboards stand out over almost any other mechanicals is it has a means of quickly swapping between three different Bluetooth pairings, so I have it paired with three different computers. Now if only I could find an equivalent mouse with a mechanical switch underneath it that let me swap between three different computers wirelessly via BT I would be set...

blairbeckwith 3y ago
I am not sure about the rest of their nice, but at least the Logitech MX Master 3 allows you to switch between 3 paired bluetooth devices via a button on the bottom.
geophile 3y ago
It sounds pretty nice, but it's a non-starter for me. I am highly dependent on key bindings for the cluster of six keys: Ins/Del/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown. This cluster used to be pretty common but is increasingly rare. The Unicomp has it, the Keychron does not.
- ywain 3y ago
  The Q5 Pro is a 96% layout, but Keychron also has quite a few 100% layouts: https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards?sort_by=manual&filter.p.tag=100%25+Layout&filter.v.availability=1 https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards?sort_by=m...
  - geophile 3y ago
    Okay, now we’re talkin’.

adrianmonk 3y ago

As long as we're talking mechanical keyboards, do they all require maintenance just to keep working, or is the basic Cooler Master one I bought just a dud? After only like 2 years, many of the keys stopped working reliably. They'd double type or fail to register. I looked into it, and this seems to be a common issue with many mechanical keyboards. I tried some of the recommended solutions (blow dust out, use contact cleaner), and it improved things, but it's still not quite right. I do like the feel, but I don't like the maintenance or lack of longevity. I'd be willing to pay more for a mechanical keyboard that is darned near maintenance free, but I'm not sure whether such a thing actually exists.

quercusa 3y ago
I dump the hair, crumbs and fingernail bits out of my Model M every couple of years - that's about it.
roblh 3y ago
They shouldn’t need that kind of maintenance unless you’re using it in an unusually dirty or dusty environment, as far as I know. I have a coolermaster tenkeyless with mx blues that I got about 10 years ago as a main keyboard that has worked without issue.
bpye 3y ago
I've had a Cooler Master tenkeyless for nearly 10 years and I still use it. I have had to repair a couple solder joints over time however.
ahefner 3y ago
I think they're generally reliable. I have a pair of Filco keyboards, one five years old, the other ten, and I haven't had any trouble except I did have to open the older one up and clean it recently as a couple switches had gotten gunked up.
amatecha 3y ago
They should require essentially zero maintenance except maybe cleaning out all the dust/lint/crumbs/etc. that fall in between the keys. The actual key switches should last like... 20 years or more. What switches in your Coolermaster? I have a Coolermaster Masterkeys Pro S (Cherry MX Brown switches) and have used it for like 7+ years with no problems, all keys 100%-responsive and no double-actuations that I've ever observed.

geophile 3y ago

Hey kids. Stop whining about Model M and Unicomp keyboards being loud. You haven't typed on an IBM 029 card punch. That puts a Model M to shame. You haven't typed on an original ASR 33 terminal. That puts an IBM 029 card punch to shame. My hearing is shot. I'm not sure if it's the rock music or those old keyboards.

eichin 3y ago
The ASR-33 starts out loud when you're not even touching it :-) Can't beat a linotype for surround, though. Clanks and thumps from all around you...

doublepg23 3y ago

Love the New Model M keyboard. I have one for my personal setup and one for my work setup. Recent batches also use Rpi Picos now which let you flash custom firmware. https://github.com/purdeaandrei/vial-qmk-overnumpad-and-aristides-2862/releases/tag/v0.2 https://github.com/purdeaandrei/vial-qmk-overnumpad-and-aris... In theory, they're probably "worse" than a brand new IBM made Model M was but I think people overestimate the feel of extant Model Ms that have been around for 30, 40 years now. I also found PS/2 -> USB adapters to be pretty flaky after a few years. My comparison is a IBM made SSK and Lexmark made regular M.

deleted 3y ago
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breckenedge 3y ago
Thanks, I had no idea these were running a Pico, yay QMK
- guenthert 3y ago
  The new "New" Model M Keyboard does afaik. My ten-key-less (space saver) (anno 2019 or so) has an older MCU which apparently doesn't get the USB protocol quite right. Every now and then (perhaps once a week) the keyboard isn't recognized at boot (currently Windows 10, but it's the same in Linux). I have it connected to a switchable USB hub, so that's not a big deal. More annoying is, that rarely (about once a month) the 'Q' key is dead (real fun when a password contains it). Most annoying is that the 'T' key tends to bounce (that developed only after two or three years of use, so probably not firmware related). Overall, I'm still satisfied, but can't wholeheartedly recommend it. Unicomp offers (or offered?) to repair those older "New" Model M (replace the MCU), but I moved internationally meanwhile, so this probably not an option anymore. I wished, they would offer the MCU daughterboard separately, so that I could install it myself.
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    Yeah I also had hiccups with the USB. Nothing as extreme as you but it wouldn't be detected by my BIOS/UEFI - that was fun to debug! :D The new rpi module is flawless though, great change.

tamrix 3y ago

Used a unicomp Model M 8+ years ago. Spilled coffee on it and it was dead dead. It's a very loud keyboard. You couldn't use one today if you had to type during a zoom or teams meeting.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Oh thank God, no RGB LEDs.

yukkuri 3y ago

My Unicomp model M is good and I appreciate it daily. Fit and finish are just a little cheaper than an original 1980s IBM (which I also had but it finally died) but it's USB and feels good to type on. I actually use the OS key so having that is a plus for me

MrBrobot 3y ago

I had one of these exact keyboards (at least the same keycap color scheme, etc). It was actually really pleasant to use, but it was far too large for my liking. I ended up going back to 60% boards with blue switches.

Koshkin 3y ago

Give me my L-shaped Enter key back please!

rvbissell 3y ago
Abomination. That's where \| should be.

op00to 3y ago

I grew up a half mile away from a major IBM office. My friends and I would sneak through the woods and go dumpster diving. We would routinely get 3-4 new in box keyboards, plenty of floppies, even real fancy chairs!

mometsi 3y ago
This sounds like the setup to a Stephen King novel about malevolent office supplies.
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  They were thrown away for a reason...
  - euroderf 3y ago
    That clicking is coming from INSIDE THE KEYBOARD
- op00to 3y ago
  More like a horror story for those poor security guard that wanted to watch tv instead of follow us around in their cars!

neom 3y ago

There is also a mac version: https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NEW_M_MAC https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Prod...

Diti 3y ago

Sigh. Yet another keyboard with the legacy AZERTY French layout and no option for the standardized (AFNOR AZERTY+) layout.

TMWNN 3y ago
Does that show that the uptake for AZERTY+ has been below expectations so far? Relevant context for others: TIL that "it is practically impossible to write French correctly using a keyboard that has been bought in France", says the country's government. Because the AZERTY layout makes typing certain accented letters difficult (especially capitals), many don't use them, changing the language <https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_that_it_is_practically_impossible_to_write/ https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_th...>
- prmoustache 3y ago
  I think that is not the problem of a physical keyboard but about Microsoft Windows still not being ready for the desktop after so many decades. I've been able easily to write accented letters on linux since forever it seems.

jupp0r 3y ago

Love mine. Make sure you have fellow appreciative keyboard nerds around you in the office, muggles will definitely complain.

0ckpuppet 3y ago
smarter people did harder work in rooms full of loud loud keyboards.
- jupp0r 3y ago
  They probably had their own offices or at least cubicles.

paulmd 3y ago

have they solved the power-on draw problems? that was the thing that finally soured me on them... my dell optiplex at work couldn't reliably handle the power surge especially during soft reboots and had a tendency to hang the whole system. worked fine when I was mostly in the office (and when I had coworkers who could reboot it for me if needed) but once we went WFH I had to have them unplug it until I eventually got my stuff...

guenthert 3y ago
Never noticed a power-draw problem. Given that even old USB is mandated to supply at least 500mA and that there's little more than a MCU inside the keyboard, I find it hard to believe that power (or even just in-rush current) could be the problem.

bombcar 3y ago

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/ has some similar things. The Model F 122 puts the Model M out to pasture.

grugagag 3y ago
That vertical bar Newsletter / Project Updates that wouldn’t go away, I just had to close the tab…
- Lammy 3y ago
  uBlock to the rescue: www.modelfkeyboards.com###omnisend-dynamic-container www.modelfkeyboards.com##.userway_buttons_wrapper www.modelfkeyboards.com##.scroll-top-right (Floating vertical bar, floating accessibility button, and floating "jump to top" button, respectively)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tiltowait 3y ago
If you can get one in a reasonable amount of time. It took about 1.5 years to get my F62, and a year to get my split Model F. They're definitely nice keyboards, though IMO the "F" switch is a bit overrated. The main advantage for me is the ability to have a 60% keyboard.

Bayaz 3y ago

They should try to cash in on the lucrative custom keycap market. When my last Unicomp model died years ago, I replaced it with a modular board and Box Navy switches to simulate the buckling spring feel. It’s close, but not exactly the same. I’d switch back to a Model M if there were custom keycaps.

Lammy 3y ago
If you go old enough the actual IBM-made keyboards do have swappable keycaps separate from the key stems.
jwells89 3y ago
Yeah, the custom keycap scene is dominated by Cherry MX-compatible sets. There’s a handful of custom caps for Kailh Choc low profile switches and even smaller handful for Topre, but if you’re a fan of Alps or especially buckling springs there’s basically nothing. This is a big reason why most of my boards are MX-type.

dartharva 3y ago

I will once again ask you guys to check out TVS Gold keyboards, they are a functional successor to the Model M and ubiquitous in India. Did I mention they are also really cheap? https://www.tvs-e.in/keyboards-and-mice/gold-pro/ https://www.tvs-e.in/keyboards-and-mice/gold-pro/

Nursie 3y ago
It's a nice looking keyboard, but it lacks the thing that makes the Model M really special - buckling springs.
flir 3y ago
Switches, right?

Nursie 3y ago

Was just thinking how much I miss my old model M. I got a stack of them from an old girlfriend when (and this is back in maybe 1999) a place she was working at was getting rid of a whole load of old IBM PCs. They were 486s in the age of the Pentium 2/3, so basically useless, but each one came with a PS2 model M. I used that keyboard for about 10 years, then gave it to a friend when I was moving country. I moved back, and they gave it back. I used it for another few years, though a little less as it is so loud. Then I moved country again and gave it to a workmate who is a real keyboard enthusiast kind of guy, and I understand it's now back in daily use. It's bigger than I want these days - I'm a fan of the TKL keyboard now. But I see they do a Mini! https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M Hmmm....

CommieBobDole 3y ago

I tried one of the new Unicomps at work and it was fine, but it has a different (and in my opinion, lesser) feel and sound than the real Model M. I'm not sure what sort of plastic the Unicomp uses for the case, but it's thin and hard and resonant. The real model M uses a thick ABS case that dampens vibrations and the resulting noise/harsh feel. I have continued using my old (June 2, 1987) Model M at home, and now that I don't work at the office anymore, it's the only keyboard I use. I keep the Unicomp on hand in case of emergencies, but it mostly just gathers dust.

cduzz 3y ago

I've got a couple M keyboards floating around. I grew up using an IBM PC with the F keyboard; when I got my first computer I got a "focus 2002" keyboard that also had the mechanical (but not BS) keys. Worked a university and availed myself of their "surplus junk" sales every 2nd tuesday of the month and adopted many a weird piece of hardware, and eventually had a stack of 3 decent M keyboards that I'd rotate through on my various systems. Decades later, I got tired of the junky dell USB keyboards and tried one out in the WFH days and discovered ... too loud, too big, kinda too annoying. I did, however, come upon a lexmark M4-1 keyboard, which has been an absolute delight. Good typing feel, has the trackpoint thing in the middle, not too big. Really quite wonderful. I don't even really notice the lack of all the fancy new keys -- I remap the capslock to whatever and it's almost like I'm back on my model f (or old "unix" keyboards of the 90s) with the control key next to the A. It's not the control key -- my muscle memory has firmly moved it to the bottom left / right, but the OS "meta" key kinda serves the same role. I even got one of the model Ms with the trackpoint in the middle (no, not a black one) -- and I just don't like the feel as much as the m4-1, which the internet says is based on early IBM laptop keyboards. Too bad the USB/PS2 dongle sometimes drops out and the keyboard reboots and flashes the 3 leds, which is somewhat annoying.

sleepybrett 3y ago
I still prefer the F to the M.. however I can't really type of qwerty boards anymore for any length of time without risking RSI. Kinesis Advantage for me for the rest of my life.
- muro 3y ago
  +1 to Kinesis Advantage. I prefer the "original" / non-360 for its advantage (sorry) of just working as soon as it's connected to a computer. The 360 needs to pair it's halves that results in a disconnect/reconnect dance which annoys me a lot. I assume it's only due to my setup, where I have two laptops connected by a USB-C to a monitor, all accessories are in turn connected to the monitor.
  - sleepybrett 3y ago

bosch_mind 3y ago

I ordered one of these and returned it instantly. Very cheap and weird compared to nice and modern mechanical keyboards you get today. I really wanted an original model M but didn’t want to deal with weird ps2 conversion stuff.

beloch 3y ago
There are still a surprising number of motherboards being made with a PS/2 port. I suspect some motherboard companies have people who still cherish their Model-M's, because support for them seems to be flawless. How many other completely unmodified thirty-plus year-old peripherals can you plug into a brand new computer and expect to just work?
- toast0 3y ago
  Why would you buy a motherboard without a ps/2 port? They're handy, and there's enough boards with them that it doesn't cost extra. I think modern cpus include the ps/2 handling in their legacy cruft section, so it's just a bit of signal routing and a connector.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  A very few businesses with tight security requirements will allow PS/2 keyboards but not USB, for security.

snvzz 3y ago

Moved on to Topre switches. I don't miss model M; pre-topre mechanical is just obsolete technology now.

MengerSponge 3y ago
I wrote my dissertation on a HHKB2, and I use a realforce in my office now. It doesn't look "weird" but it's an absolute delight to type on.
- dcchambers 3y ago
  Would love to take a look at that paper if you're willing to share :)
  - dcchambers 3y ago
    Oh, disregard this. I misread your post thinking you wrote your dissertation about the HHKB, not that you literally typed it up using one, haha.
    - MengerSponge 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence :p

projektfu 3y ago

I bought one of their keyboards back maybe 6 years ago and it simply died one day after warranty but not long onto its life. I would consider trying again but the price is just too high to risk it.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Man I love those switches, and had a Model M for years... but I hate the layout and am not a huge fan of the keycaps. Useless CapsLocks where control should be is one of the worst legacies of the IBM PC, along with the x86 instruction set. I would love to see the buckling spring keyswitches paired with some doubleshot SA profile keycaps.

jachee 3y ago

I daily drive one of these. There’s nothing quite like the crunch of an actual buckling spring. I wish there were a bit more of a customization market, but I’m pretty happy with mine, despite it being beige on beige.

diffeomorphism 3y ago

Somewhat relevant, you can get the sound (but not feel) of this keyboard as software: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring Might even be in the repos depending on your linux distro, e.g apt install bucklespring

hlandau 3y ago

Case is only available in black? Wish they wouldn't put that hideous logo on it. I've heard claims that the keycap shapes have decayed as the original injection moulding moulds have worn. But judging by comments above it sounds like they have resolved that. Audio keys feel like a necessity for me nowadays. The Ducky one3 I use puts them where the LEDs usually go and I feel that works really well. There's also existing Model Ms but lack of Super keys is a total dealbreaker for me.

_giorgio_ 3y ago

Keys are too heavy. Model F springs are way better.

markdoubleyou 3y ago
This was my first mechanical keyboard, and I had the same reaction. My fingers would feel fatigued after an hour of heavy use.

orthoxerox 3y ago

I bought a couple Unicomp keyboards in late 2011, I don't even remember the model name, something like SpaceSaver. I'm currently typing this comment on one of them and the other one is in another home. I love the clickiness, the heft, the fact that it's built like a tank. I am not a big fan of the PS/2 (2011 me worried about USB rollover and didn't expect PS/2 to die out) and my coworkers weren't big fans of the clickiness at all, but it's one of my favorite possessions.

alextingle 3y ago

Unicomp's customer service was absolutely terrible when I bought from them. I ordered a black keyboard. They spent ages doing nothing. When I complained, they finally shipped me... a beige keyboard. When I notified them, the rep said (and I quote), "I don't really see the problem... can't you use it as is?" He refused to replace it, and reluctantly refunded me the purchase price (but not the extremely expensive postage). So if I wanted to get what I actually ordered, I'd have had to start the whole tortuous process from scratch, and still be out of pocket. The whole experience was ridiculous.

cheshireoctopus 3y ago
Hate to say it as I like Unicomp as a concept, but had a related experience. Purchased a keyboard from them back in 2015/2016 and really enjoyed the few months that it worked. There is something about those springs... When it stopped functioning a short while later I contacted Unicomp asking how I could fix and/or replace it and was told I'd have to buy a new one. Probably meant to be as I developed the need for an ergonomic keyboard. Purchased a Kinesis Freestyle2 and it's worked without issue.

intrasight 3y ago

I just notice today when I looked at their web site again that they also have a Mini M

digitalsushi 3y ago

I recommend owners purchase an automotive pick set. It's given me hundreds of idle-plaything hours stuck on zoom calls, picking dog hairs out from between the keys like a neurosurgeon.

Macha 3y ago
I use the key puller that came in the box with one of my keyboards for that. It's led to some awkward moments in calls as the gap in the handle is just big enough to get my finger in easy and make it hard to take out.

deeesstoronto 3y ago

I really enjoy typing on the unicomp buckling spring keyboard; I've had an older model for a long time. It seemed very well built on the outside, however eventually a number of keys stopped functioning. Taking it apart, I found that the plastic rivets holding the assembly together failed. It was repairable by drilling and replacing the rivets with machine screws. Although original model M's were built in the same way, the design or manufacture of these rivets on my unit is completely insufficient. I'd expect better for a keyboard in this price range. This also seems to be a common problem based on scouring the forums. I'd hope this would be re-designed in newer models, however also don't hold out much hope.

tiltowait 3y ago
I wonder if the "New" Model M has the same problem, or if they've finally updated/replaced their tooling. AFAIK they were/are still using the old machines from the 80s and 90s.