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From this article “Female suicides decrease by 8% to 16%”. Yet, from another study “In the United States, the rate of suicide among persons who are divorced o
by theNJR 3y ago
From this article “Female suicides decrease by 8% to 16%”.
Yet, from another study
“In the United States, the rate of suicide among persons who are divorced or separated is usually reported as about 2.4 times greater than the suicide rate for married persons. ”
And
“For every one divorced woman who dies by suicide, there are nine divorced men who do so.”
Seems like we are managing against the wrong metric.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/acquainted-the-night/201906/divorce-is-risk-factor-suicide-especially-men https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/acquainted-the-night...
- LesZedCB 3y ago[flagged]
- dvt 3y agoSo your argument is "suicide is good as long as (toxic) men do it"? Come on, please try to keep HN substantially more intellectually stimulating than reddit and its ilk.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- czbond 3y agoOnce people decide the pair of glasses they wear, they typically only see the world through that distorted lens.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- darth_avocado 3y agoSo people committing suicide are abusers and toxic males?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- silverquiet 3y agoIt sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. Personally, I have to say I've never really "gotten it" so-to-speak - I really never felt a desire to get married and/or have children, so this is no great worry for me. But I do normally feel quite counter-cultural when I express it.
- cjbgkagh 3y agoOnce people are in the position to gain from not being happy they will never be happy, "appetite comes with eating".
- andruby 3y agoI don’t understand. What is this trying to say? Sorry if this is a common expression.
- cjbgkagh 3y ago[dead]
- useless_foghorn 3y ago“If you are profiting from being unhappy you will find ways and reasons to be unhappy.” I believe the idea expressed in ‘appetite comes with eating’ is that your desire to indulge in an activity is correlated (caused even) with that activity. IE skydivers will likely have a larger appetite or desire for skydiving than a layman. In a larger context I believe cjbgkagh is arguing that women can retain an advantageous position in a marriage by pretending or presenting unhappiness because exiting a marital contract would be an especially poor outcome her partner.
- cjbgkagh 3y agoIt's more of a general phenomena that I believe commonly applies to this specific case. Often there is an assumption that a demand can be satiated once met, but quite often instead the demands simply increase.
- iteria 3y agoI would be interested to compare this to homicide rates. Because I remember reading that when no fault divorce was allowed male lifespan increased. I also think it's too early to really look at these rates. Of course many women would be happy they weren't destitute when they got married during a time when women couldn't have bank accounts. Of course men would feel put out when they were used to having everything handled by their wife and existed during a time where joint custody was not so common. I'd like to see these studies again in 20 or so years when most people surveyed got married out of commitment instead of life necessity.
- orwin 3y agoThat's definitely true, in my grandmother family, it was was an open secret (or rather a mean and quite unfunny running joke) that her aunt managed to get out of her arranged marriage after ten years by "inadvertently" poisoning her abusive husband. I can only speculate that they had fertility issues since after 10 years they did not had any kids, and that could have been a reason why he became violent.
- Jensson 3y ago> I'd like to see these studies again in 20 or so years when most people surveyed got married out of commitment instead of life necessity. We are already there, what kind of world are you imagining? The need for women to marry was removed 50-60 years ago in the west, there hasn't been a necessity to marry in a really long time, you might have some really old couples left from the time before that but it wouldn't affect statistics much.
- andrew_gs 3y agoI'm divorced. By the time you make the decision to leave your partner your life is in a bit a shambles. Something you thought would last together is about to end and if you have kids with your ex (I have 3) then you're about to enter into one of the most stressful and complicated parts of your life. Of course the suicide right is going to be higher, but you shouldn't compare it against the part of the population who is happily married, you would have to compare it to the people who are desperately unhappy in their marriage and don't get divorced. At the end of my marriage I still dearly loved my wife, but hadn't been happy for years and I was wishing for death to give me a noble exit from a situation I couldn't see a way out of myself.
- slowhadoken 3y agoGuys take all the blame for divorce. I’ve know married women with kids that were monsters and everyone pitied them. There’s a strong, verging on psychotic, bias towards women in society and family court.
- AussieWog93 3y agoI'm not sure this is the general case. In the case of most divorced couples I know of, the "monster" tends to be whichever party I'm less close to.
- slowhadoken 3y agoIt’s true. I’ve talked a lot of guys off the edge of a cliff. You try to warn the new generation but they don’t listen, guys always got to learn the hard way.
- api 3y agoIt’s because for every one of those there’s a battered wife, and before the 1970s women had little ability to escape that kind of thing except at incredible cost. People can be awful to each other. Gender doesn’t matter.
- 3y ago
- c0pium 3y agoCulture in the United States is aggressively uninterested in men’s mental health. It is always the last thing to consider and the first thing to drop. See also university admissions/graduation rates. If you’re a man in the US: You. Are. On. Your. Own.
- vdaea 3y agoMen have always been on their own. It's now more evident than ever, though. Good thing they used that autonomy to build... everything.
- noman-land 3y agoThey also used it to prevent others from building anything.
- rapind 3y agoBecause it's manly to be on your own emotionally (said western society at large).
- svnt 3y agoIt’s always “Western society at large” in these conversations. These have for a long time only been social requirements of some women in order for some men to partner and reproduce. This is not “Western society” it is the cultural fabric, which itself is dominated by the social activity of women. It is a shadow matriarchy.
- adventured 3y agoSaid most societies globally. It's true across Africa. It's true across Asia (see: China, Japan for two very prominent examples). It's true in India. It's true across all of the Islamic world. It's commonly true in most of Europe (and absolutely true across Eastern Europe). Canada is quite similar to the US. It's true across Latin America. And it's true in the US. When it's that comprehensive, spanning most of the human population across wildly different cultures, it's not society, it's biology. Society - cultures - are a production of that biology, reinforcing, not the other way around. It's not recent, it's ancient; it wasn't originated by humanity through society, nature organized humanity in a way that assisted survival.
- reso 3y agoAre you suggesting we restrict divorce in order to reduce male suicide?
- useless_foghorn 3y agoAll social pressures have a cost and an optimal balance. Men tend toward a less bonded mating strategy, and divorce law seems to seek to punish that behavior (which, again, can be offset by prenups). A symptom of a social pressure that is out of balance might be disproportionate male suicide rate.
- svnt 3y agoBetter protections for men from the social consequences that some women architect purely out of spite would go a long way. I’m often in awe that we can both propose equal rights and responsibilities and sympathetically treat forty-year-old adults as children in these situations, but only if they belong to one sex. The other sex gets disgust or at best pity.
- bitshiftfaced 3y agoI didn't get that impression. To me it's more about calling into question bringing up certain statistics when if you were to really make policy based on unbiased decision-making, then you'd have to ask uncomfortable questions just like the one you've asked.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- assimpleaspossi 3y agoFor a period of time, I was in a situation where I would come into contact with people at their apartments. I saw so many unhappy--downright miserable--women who were recently divorced. I just never thought about it before but there it was in front of me so many times.