8 ms·

I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the Beeper offices over the past few weeks. I've had a hard time guessing their intent. To some extent all of th

I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the Beeper offices over the past few weeks. I've had a hard time guessing their intent. To some extent all of this Beeper Mini stuff seems to be almost an elaborate marketing stunt. I don't say that to diminish the impressive work of the team of anything like that, but it seems self-evident that Apple would hate this and I've been a bit surprised by the tone of the company throughout the past few weeks. The tone feels a bit like they've been surprised by Apple's response? With all of that said, I'm kind of selfishly happy they seem to be returning their focus to Beeper Cloud. I've been a very happy user of it for a while now and I don't particularly care about the iMessage functionality. I'm very impressed with what they've been able to achieve and overcome when taking on Apple here, and I'm really interested in where they'll go next.

rchaud 3y ago
> I've had a hard time guessing their intent. They say in the post that they will focus on their own chat app going forward. This is their last attempt at making Beeper work.
harryVic 3y ago
I guess it is great marketing. I didn't even know they had a bleeper cloud offering.
- Grustaf 3y ago
  Does their behaviour with beeper mini instill great confidence? Will you trust them with your credentials to all your chat apps?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
andwaal 3y ago
Totally agree, it has been fun to follow, but I really don't hope that this stunt destroys for the awesome product Beeper Cloud is. As an European user I couldn't care less about blue and green bubbles, all of my communication goes through FB messenger or Snap, only exception is the occasional SMS from old relatives without other platforms.
tedunangst 3y ago
I'm increasingly of the belief that the plan was to become a nuisance so that Apple buys them out, to be accompanied by an incredible journey blog post, so proud of what we've done, excited about what comes next, etc., and then quietly dissolve the whole operation.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Why would Apple buy them? What value could they provide to Apple?
  - playingalong 3y ago
    Not being a nuisance.
    - madeofpalk 3y ago
      That is a fantasy.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      I guess beeper users will wear out and give up before Apple need to buy them.
- striking 3y ago
  I don't think the founders need any more money.
  - chihuahua 3y ago
    There are many people who "don't need any more money" but are still working day and night to make more money. For example, Satya or Tim Apple.
    - striking 3y ago
      Judging by their current projects I'd make the argument that Brad and Eric are working day and night to make things they find cool, even if it loses money.
alright2565 3y ago
The goal I see here is to get media[1] and regulator[2][3] attention on this issue, and to get Apple to clearly state their (anti-consumer) position. I'm sure Apple employees in every level and department have lost sleep over this. I don't think their expressed surprise is legitimate, but is instead a rhetorical choice to make Apple seem unreasonable. [1]: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/beeper-mini-brings-imessage-to-android-without-your-apple-id/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/beeper-mini-brings-imessage... [2]: https://www.threads.net/@jolingkent/post/C0-zKSPrizx https://www.threads.net/@jolingkent/post/C0-zKSPrizx [3]: https://www.droid-life.com/2023/12/18/lawmakers-suggest-doj-investigate-apple-over-beeper-mini-vs-imessage-battle/ https://www.droid-life.com/2023/12/18/lawmakers-suggest-doj-...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zwily 3y ago
  You think Apple employees have lost sleep over this? I seriously doubt it…
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    Employees, no. Executives, absolutely. Beeper put them between a rock and a hard place, where any action other than accepting Beeper would solicit regulatory action. This in fact ended up happening. Furthermore, I bet Beeper was outright hoping for a lawsuit from Apple, which would put up a well-publicized fight over adversarial interoperability that could yield to a disastrous legal precedent not just for Apple but other companies. Apple knows this and that's why they haven't sued them (or DMCA'd any repos).
    - nwiswell 3y ago
      > Furthermore, I bet Beeper was outright hoping for a lawsuit from Apple Doubtful. Beeper has several legitimate causes of action to bring their own suit, if they really expect that outcome (and more importantly, if they have the financial resources to litigate)
llm_nerd 3y ago
>I've had a hard time guessing their intent They were selling a service for $2/month. Did everyone forget that? For essentially a tosser app that could quickly be a pretty lucrative amount of money. There is some white knight narrative that has suddenly arisen that isn't based in reality. That these guys are freedom fighters that just wanted to take on Goliath. In reality they're capitalists who saw a way to make money off of a proof of concept, and (ridiculously) thought they could shame the target into not taking obvious actions to squash them.
- quadrifoliate 3y ago
  > In reality they're capitalists who saw a way to make money off of a proof of concept, and (ridiculously) thought they could shame the target into not taking obvious actions to squash them. The "target" here is also literally the largest company in the world, whose executives have been discussing since 2013 about how to lock families into an iPhone monopoly that costs thousands of dollars a year by restricting iMessage [1]. There are no white knights here (it's all a money game), but Beeper's stance isn't as one-sided and ridiculous as you're making it out to be. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1589450766506692609/photo/4 https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1589450766506692609/ph...
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    I said that Beeper saw a business opportunity to make money. This is without question. You're posing a false dichotomy that therefore I'm somehow sainting Apple or something, which simply isn't true: Apple absolutely is out to make money (humorously a couple of days ago I called Apple one of the greediest companies -- in a bad way -- ever, and my comment was flagged which...rofl), and absolutely no one doubts that. No one is claiming that Apple are the white knights in this or any other situation.
- mattl 3y ago
  What does tosser app mean in this context?
  - 3y ago
kotaKat 3y ago
They should do Google Messages next. Isn't there still not an API to integrate third party chat into Google's walled RCS garden?
- eredengrin 3y ago
  Beeper Cloud has had google messages support since at least September.
  - kotaKat 3y ago
    Is that an official API, or a hacked implementation like their iMessage client?
- tedd4u 3y ago
  Apple says they will implement RCS in 2024. https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/ Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users.
  - creativeembassy 3y ago
    The article addresses this. > Just one year ago, Tim Cook had this to say about RCS: "I don't hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy in on that at this point. […] Buy your mom an iPhone.” > Long story short, I will believe it when I see it. Apple has a long history of claiming they will support an open standard, then failing to add support. In 2010, Steve Jobs promised that Apple ‘would make FaceTime an open industry standard’. That never happened. More recently, in 2021, Apple promised to open their Find My network to competitors like Tile. Instead, they’ve penalized Tile by additional warnings in front of their app.
    - 3y ago
airstrike 3y ago
> The tone feels a bit like they've been surprised by Apple's response? What they say and how they really feel aren't necessarily the same thing
samstave 3y ago
>Beeper Mini stuff seems to be almost an elaborate marketing stunt Imagine if they knew for some time the cutoff date from Apple so they released mini just before to ride the PR tsunami, That would be nice.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

rchaud 3y ago

> I've had a hard time guessing their intent. They say in the post that they will focus on their own chat app going forward. This is their last attempt at making Beeper work.

harryVic 3y ago

I guess it is great marketing. I didn't even know they had a bleeper cloud offering.

Grustaf 3y ago
Does their behaviour with beeper mini instill great confidence? Will you trust them with your credentials to all your chat apps?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

andwaal 3y ago

Totally agree, it has been fun to follow, but I really don't hope that this stunt destroys for the awesome product Beeper Cloud is. As an European user I couldn't care less about blue and green bubbles, all of my communication goes through FB messenger or Snap, only exception is the occasional SMS from old relatives without other platforms.

tedunangst 3y ago

I'm increasingly of the belief that the plan was to become a nuisance so that Apple buys them out, to be accompanied by an incredible journey blog post, so proud of what we've done, excited about what comes next, etc., and then quietly dissolve the whole operation.

madeofpalk 3y ago
Why would Apple buy them? What value could they provide to Apple?
- playingalong 3y ago
  Not being a nuisance.
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    That is a fantasy.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    I guess beeper users will wear out and give up before Apple need to buy them.
striking 3y ago
I don't think the founders need any more money.
- chihuahua 3y ago
  There are many people who "don't need any more money" but are still working day and night to make more money. For example, Satya or Tim Apple.
  - striking 3y ago
    Judging by their current projects I'd make the argument that Brad and Eric are working day and night to make things they find cool, even if it loses money.

alright2565 3y ago

The goal I see here is to get media[1] and regulator[2][3] attention on this issue, and to get Apple to clearly state their (anti-consumer) position. I'm sure Apple employees in every level and department have lost sleep over this. I don't think their expressed surprise is legitimate, but is instead a rhetorical choice to make Apple seem unreasonable. [1]: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/beeper-mini-brings-imessage-to-android-without-your-apple-id/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/beeper-mini-brings-imessage... [2]: https://www.threads.net/@jolingkent/post/C0-zKSPrizx https://www.threads.net/@jolingkent/post/C0-zKSPrizx [3]: https://www.droid-life.com/2023/12/18/lawmakers-suggest-doj-investigate-apple-over-beeper-mini-vs-imessage-battle/ https://www.droid-life.com/2023/12/18/lawmakers-suggest-doj-...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zwily 3y ago
You think Apple employees have lost sleep over this? I seriously doubt it…
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Employees, no. Executives, absolutely. Beeper put them between a rock and a hard place, where any action other than accepting Beeper would solicit regulatory action. This in fact ended up happening. Furthermore, I bet Beeper was outright hoping for a lawsuit from Apple, which would put up a well-publicized fight over adversarial interoperability that could yield to a disastrous legal precedent not just for Apple but other companies. Apple knows this and that's why they haven't sued them (or DMCA'd any repos).
  - nwiswell 3y ago
    > Furthermore, I bet Beeper was outright hoping for a lawsuit from Apple Doubtful. Beeper has several legitimate causes of action to bring their own suit, if they really expect that outcome (and more importantly, if they have the financial resources to litigate)

llm_nerd 3y ago

>I've had a hard time guessing their intent They were selling a service for $2/month. Did everyone forget that? For essentially a tosser app that could quickly be a pretty lucrative amount of money. There is some white knight narrative that has suddenly arisen that isn't based in reality. That these guys are freedom fighters that just wanted to take on Goliath. In reality they're capitalists who saw a way to make money off of a proof of concept, and (ridiculously) thought they could shame the target into not taking obvious actions to squash them.

quadrifoliate 3y ago
> In reality they're capitalists who saw a way to make money off of a proof of concept, and (ridiculously) thought they could shame the target into not taking obvious actions to squash them. The "target" here is also literally the largest company in the world, whose executives have been discussing since 2013 about how to lock families into an iPhone monopoly that costs thousands of dollars a year by restricting iMessage [1]. There are no white knights here (it's all a money game), but Beeper's stance isn't as one-sided and ridiculous as you're making it out to be. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1589450766506692609/photo/4 https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1589450766506692609/ph...
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  I said that Beeper saw a business opportunity to make money. This is without question. You're posing a false dichotomy that therefore I'm somehow sainting Apple or something, which simply isn't true: Apple absolutely is out to make money (humorously a couple of days ago I called Apple one of the greediest companies -- in a bad way -- ever, and my comment was flagged which...rofl), and absolutely no one doubts that. No one is claiming that Apple are the white knights in this or any other situation.
mattl 3y ago
What does tosser app mean in this context?
- 3y ago

kotaKat 3y ago

They should do Google Messages next. Isn't there still not an API to integrate third party chat into Google's walled RCS garden?

eredengrin 3y ago
Beeper Cloud has had google messages support since at least September.
- kotaKat 3y ago
  Is that an official API, or a hacked implementation like their iMessage client?
tedd4u 3y ago
Apple says they will implement RCS in 2024. https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/ Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users.
- creativeembassy 3y ago
  The article addresses this. > Just one year ago, Tim Cook had this to say about RCS: "I don't hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy in on that at this point. […] Buy your mom an iPhone.” > Long story short, I will believe it when I see it. Apple has a long history of claiming they will support an open standard, then failing to add support. In 2010, Steve Jobs promised that Apple ‘would make FaceTime an open industry standard’. That never happened. More recently, in 2021, Apple promised to open their Find My network to competitors like Tile. Instead, they’ve penalized Tile by additional warnings in front of their app.
  - 3y ago

airstrike 3y ago

> The tone feels a bit like they've been surprised by Apple's response? What they say and how they really feel aren't necessarily the same thing

samstave 3y ago

>Beeper Mini stuff seems to be almost an elaborate marketing stunt Imagine if they knew for some time the cutoff date from Apple so they released mini just before to ride the PR tsunami, That would be nice.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]