8 ms·

Debian 12 “Bookworm”

594 points by Chatting 3y ago

tuomosipola 3y ago
Finally. I migrated from the snap-cursed Ubuntu to Debian. I have been running Bookworm since last summer, and now I can stay in the stable distribution until I really need a new version of some software. Should not happen too soon.
guerby 3y ago
And first beta of proxmox 8.0 based on debian 12: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Roadmap#Proxmox_VE_8.0_beta1 https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Roadmap#Proxmox_VE_8.0_beta1
lockhouse 3y ago
If any of the Debian team is here, congratulations and thank you for putting together such a solid, consistently high quality Linux distro.
hosteur 3y ago
Fantastic! Can’t wait to upgrade my servers and desktop. Debian is an absolute marvel.
troad 3y ago
Congratulations to the Debian team! An important change appears to be the inclusion of non-free firmware by default in the official install image for the first time, as a result of this vote: https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 Intriguing. I feel a little torn on this. One the one hand, I appreciate being able to install Debian from an official image onto a bothersome device. On the other, I can't help but feel we're losing something when even a purist distribution like Debian is forced to concede in the fight against proprietary blobs. Edit: dropped the word 'kernel' from 'proprietary blobs', as rightly picked up by kind commenters below.
- GrumpySloth 3y ago
  I've never had a computer which would work with the official ideologically-pure installer. Always had to use the non-free one. I'm glad this vote turned out the way it did.
  - cesarb 3y ago
    > I've never had a computer which would work with the official ideologically-pure installer. I had more than once, back when I first installed Debian in the late 1900s and early 2000s, and I believe my experience wasn't unique. Back then, not requiring any loadable firmware was common; the hardware either didn't require firmware, or came with the full firmware in a ROM chip in the device itself. And that explains the issue: Debian is an old distribution, coming from these times when not having non-free firmware (or even any firmware at all) in the distribution was viable, and often fully usable.
    - NikkiA 3y ago
      Same, and I used to keep a little cache of 'known working without firmware issues' wlan cards (pcmcia), I probably still have some somewhere; though I don't think I have any pcmcia capable laptops anymore
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  Firmware is not kernel blob. It's executed on separate device and has nothing to do with Linux. It's about open hardware, not open software. I don't think that it's worth to pursue this direction for Debian.
- progval 3y ago
  For devices which have firmware, does it matter whether the firmware is loaded by the OS rather than hardcoded inside the device? The former at least gives an opportunity to fix bugs. And if I'm not mistaken, this isn't about kernel blobs (which run on the CPU as kernel code), only code that gets loaded on devices (including CPU microcode).
juujian 3y ago
Didn't expect for shiny-server to be mentioned so prominently. I might actually give Debian a shot for my personal machine. The five years of updatea sounds great, the LTS option is the main reason why I went with Ubuntu so far.
28304283409234 3y ago
Never ceases to amaze me. There is all kinds of things wrong with Debian I am sure. But at the end of the day, what that community does is mindblowingly impressive. Much gratitude from a Slink-and-a-half user, back in the day.
- whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
  All kinds of things wrong? It’s the base for half the Linux distros. What could you possibly mean?
  - marpstar 3y ago
    I think they were referring to the fact that everything has something "wrong" with it, but that those things don't invalidate the value of the greater whole.
    - pietro72ohboy 3y ago
      Seems to be an extremely charitable interpretation of the parent comment. I also read it as -- "Despite the plethora of issues with Debian, it manages to surprise". Like the second-level commenter, I'm also curious to hear more about these "issues".
      - 28304283409234 3y ago
        You poor person, reading malice where none was intended. marpstar was correct. I am a Debian fanboi since Slink. Since it was drilled into me by rvdm, ssmeenk, miquels, jdassen and dth. And have seen Debian survive and thrive a lot of critisism. "Too slow release cycle, not Free(Dom) enough, Too free, systemd, too much politics, too many architectures, etc....etc....etc.." Yes, any large community will be flawed and deliver flawed solutions. And I for one celebrate those flaws and features, and appreciate the sheer magnitude and accomplishment of this enormous, complex, great project.
        3y ago
thanatos519 3y ago
I installed -rc4 on a new work laptop and it's super nice. I have some gripes about the installer's partitioning tool but I suspect that it would have been fine if I was willing to reboot a couple more times. The laptop was locked down and I needed someone to type the BIOS password every time I wanted to boot off the USB stick. I wanted 4k blocks all the way down but got stuck with 512b sectors.
swayvil 3y ago
Heck yes. Best distro of the best OS on the planet. I look forward to upgrading.
nntwozz 3y ago
The gift that keeps on giving, runs perfect on my headless 10-year old gaming-PC turned server in the basement.
- themoonisachees 3y ago
  I highly recommend installing proxmox and running debian VMs. It's really easy and the returns are great.
  - cf100clunk 3y ago
    In the parent comment to yours, ''runs perfect'' means runs perfect. No need for an insertion of an additional layer of stuff to just get back to ''runs perfect''.
kramerger 3y ago
Do you recommend switching from Ubuntu TLS to this one? Even to a heavy LXC and multipass user? What had kept me on Ubuntu so far has been their out of box laptop support (I.e. WiFi drivers).
- marcrosoft 3y ago
  I switched away from Ubuntu when they started putting advertisements in the motd and login screens.
  - kramerger 3y ago
    That didn't bother me much as it is "advertisement" about things related to my system. What I did not like was Firefox taking 20s to start.
    - themoonisachees 3y ago
      Ubuntu has (used to at least) ads as apps in the app launcher, served by canonical and not at all related to the software you're using.
    - marcrosoft 3y ago
      No I’m not talking about useful things like last login, average cpu, etc. they were advertising their cloud products.
- 28304283409234 3y ago
  Moved back to Debian because of lxc on Ubuntu requiring snaps. Turns out same problem on Debian. Snapd consumes 100% cpu. All. The. Time. Hoping Bookworm will solve it. Else I will be moving to Archlinux, which has lxc without snapd.
  - yrro 3y ago
    I don't think lxc on Debian has ever needed snapd? https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/lxc https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/lxc
lairv 3y ago
Had to reinstall ubuntu 3 times already since the beginning of this year and thus switched to debian, hopefully I'll be able to settle in for a while
- profwalkstr 3y ago
  What happened?
  - lairv 3y ago
    - Tried 23.04 and found too many bugs (I guess this doesn't count) - Some day 22.04 randomly started without GUI and I couldn't get it back either with ubuntu-desktop and startx - I installed a Python package without a virtual environment and it somehow interfered with system Python, bootloader broke It's possible that those errors were recoverable but I'm not a linux expert and I couldn't repair it after ~2h of stackoverflow
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Since I disabled auto-update most of such issues have gone away and what works stays working. I suspect the second was due to an auto-update if you had that enabled and don't get me started on python versioning and the way that can impact a system.
    - zekrioca 3y ago
      Never go through odd versions (19.xy, 21.xy, 23.xy,…).
    - colanderman 3y ago
      > I installed a Python package without a virtual environment Coincidentally, doing this is now disabled in Debian Bookworm.
    - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
      > installed a Python package without a virtual environment and it somehow interfered with system Python, bootloader broke Shouldn't the OS python be protected by root?
bacchusracine 3y ago
Does anyone know if Bookworm includes the Ubuntu-Mate version of the Mate desktop?
- bikenaga 3y ago
  I'm on testing, which just released as Debian 12. mate-desktop is 1.26.0, but a few things (like mate-applets) are 1.26.1 and a few (like mate-panel) show up as 1.27.0. I don't use Ubuntu, so I don't know how these compare to whatever Ubuntu uses.
- ech0plex88 3y ago
  Unfortunately no, the panel layouts aren't there by default. However, I've written some guides that can help close the appearance & capabilities gap. https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/12gyjpg/debian_mate_appreciation_post_user_guides/ https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/12gyjpg/debian_mate... https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/13ueaub/debian_12_mate_window_manager_update/ https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/13ueaub/debian_12_m...
  - bacchusracine 3y ago
    Thank you for those links, since tomorrow I expect most of Reddit to go dark I took the liberty of archiving them so I can be sure I can go into more depth then. https://archive.is/iH9un https://archive.is/iH9un https://archive.is/R0oBe https://archive.is/R0oBe https://archive.is/IKViC https://archive.is/IKViC https://archive.is/1Pyzs https://archive.is/1Pyzs
fb03 3y ago
Testing this out in a VM. I want to move away from Ubuntu (honestly, from SNAPs)
- troad 3y ago
  I'm also considering this, but I'm a little afraid of being stuck in the slow lane when it comes to software updates. I'm aware of Backports, but I'm led to believe it has a somewhat limited selection. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to try a combination of Debian, for general system stability, and Nix, for specific tools where I need newer releases? Has anyone tried this combination before? If so, how did you find it?
  - chungy 3y ago
    Combining Debian with Nix or Guix is a fairly excellent way to go. Stable OS base, selective bleeding-edge apps (or hell, multiple runtime versions that would otherwise conflict). Win-win.
  - Tuna-Fish 3y ago
    If you want to run a desktop system, I'd recommend Pop! OS. Right now, they seem to be the distro that cares the most about desktop experience.
  - cardanome 3y ago
    Why not use Linux Mint? It is Ubuntu-based but without the bad parts like snap. So you get to keep access to all the Ubuntu packages but also your sanity.
    - leesalminen 3y ago
      I’ve been maintaining a machine deployed to my mother-in-law’s house for ~4 years with Mint. She went from needing tech support every time I was at her house to never overnight. I highly recommend Mint for this scenario.
  - aragilar 3y ago
    Is this a desktop/laptop? You can always run unstable if you think stable is too old (I run unstable on my dev systems, and stable on servers/anything I want to setup and let run). FYI, if you use a Ubuntu LTS release, then unless you always run the latest LTS, the majority of the packages (being in universe) will actually be older than Debian stable (and will always be older then Debian unstable).
haunter 3y ago
Congrats! Been using it on a 2017 Thinkpad X270 with MATE. Everything works perfectly. Honestly might not be the "flashiest" distro but does the job perfectly well. And personally I always recommend it to people new to Linux.
unpopularopp 3y ago
A bit offtopic... are there any distros besides PoPOS that comes with the proprietary Nvidia drivers preinstalled? I tried to use (live image) Debian on an RTX 4070 PC and nothing worked just black screen after GRUB. PoPOS works out of the box but honestly I'd prefer something more simple as Debian.
- yrro 3y ago
  How does PoPOS accomplish this without violating the license of the kernel and the NVIDIA drivers?
  - dezgeg 3y ago
    The sad truth is the license of non-GPL Linux kernel modules is very rarely cared about nor enforced. There are ton of embedded devices that don't bother with the NVIDIA shim scheme but ship with straight proprietary .ko:s on the device.
  - chungy 3y ago
    Since it is a distribution by a hardware vendor that ships NVIDIA GPUs, I'll assume that they got a licensed from NVIDIA to ship their operating system with the proprietary drivers.
    - yrro 3y ago
      Possibly, but what about the license of Linux? Surely nvidia.ko (being a derived work of both the GPL-licensed Linux kernel and the proprietary NVIDIA kernel object files) is non-distributable? Otherwise why does every other distribution faff around with akmods/DKMS, etc?
- noisy_boy 3y ago
  I have been thinking of switching to Debian from Pop!_OS and have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 with Nvidia GeForce GTX 1650 - if graphics drivers are an issue, then my wish is dead in water.
encom 3y ago
But it's /not/ released though. Their own news section mentions that cd images are still being built, which seems like something that should have happened already. There's nothing but 11.7 available for download.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The bookworm apt repository is in the final state, so Bookworm is released for those with existing Debian installations who can just do a search/replace of "bullseye" to "bookworm" in their apt.sources file, and run apt dist-upgrade.
  - encom 3y ago
    Sure, but the announcement mentions and links to Bookworm media downloads which are old 11.7 media. It's confusing, annoying and honestly kind of amateurish. I like Debian, but this is a screw-up. 20:00 in mainland Europe and it's still not out. My work laptop is in a sad state of semi-brokenness (self-inflicted), and I had been looking forward to giving it a fresh start over the weekend. Now I'll have to wait another week.
sylware 3y ago
Finally with init system alternatives or do they still shove systemd down our throat (if so I'll stick to devuan gnu/linux instead)?
- yrro 3y ago
  Finally? Debian has always shipped sysvinit and a bunch of other less-used init systems.
  - sylware 3y ago
    I cannot find install images without systemd and with sysvinit. Do I miss something?
    - biorach 3y ago
      That's because systemd is the default. You can choose sysvinit during installation https://wiki.debian.org/Init#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_installation_time https://wiki.debian.org/Init#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_i...
      - probably_wrong 3y ago
        One one hand I am thankful for the fact that this guide exist. On the other hand, I am getting strong HHGTTG vibes [1] from them: "you can choose sysvinit as long as you follow a complex set of steps that's likely to go wrong detailed inside a hard-to-find package". Maybe I'm asking too much, but for me "official" support would mean that I can do it from the installer directly, no terminals and chroots required. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on-display-on-display-i-eventually https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on...
      - zh3 3y ago
        Or post-installation. Basically install sysvinit-core, copy inittab to /etc and reboot (systemd can then be removed/autoremoved/purged according to taste).
      - 3y ago
drumhead 3y ago
I've was an inveterate distro hopper, but finally settled on Debian because of its stability. Its not the most user friendly but when you get it up and running "it just works". Debian really is fantastic achievement in software.
- DrJohanson 3y ago
  [dead]
jfhr 3y ago
> The new systemd-resolved package will not be installed automatically on upgrades as it has been split into a separate package. If using the systemd-resolved system service, please install the new package manually after the upgrade, and note that until it has been installed, DNS resolution may no longer work as the service will not be present on the system. will installing over the internet work without DNS resolution?
- pas 3y ago
  yes, as the script adds/replaces the sources.list lines, then apt i downloads the packages, only then it starts the installation of them
  - e12e 3y ago
    But you can't (easily) get the deb package for systemd-resolved after the upgrade has (possibly) broken DNS?
    - pas 3y ago
      yeah, that's not ideal, or possibly very bad UX, depending on how the update happens. (if the running stub resolver of resolved is not shut down, or at least an effort is made to fix resolve.conf during removal of the old package, then it might cover most of the users. as far as I understand the 11 -> 12 upgrade works without manual intervention, and this is an edge case, as systemd-resolved is not enabled by default on Debian 11.)
krylon 3y ago
One thing I really appreciate about Debian is that when a new stable release comes around, I can just upgrade and be reasonably sure nothing bad will happen. It's not exciting, but a fair amount of the time, this is what people expect from their operating system. Support my hardware, give me the software I need, and stay out of my way otherwise. And that is what Debian does very well.
- jacooper 3y ago
  Its baffling that RHEL-based distros still don't support in place upgrades.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Strange; I would have assumed that `dnf system-upgrade` would have made it from Fedora to RHEL by now. Actually searching turns up https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/upgrading_from_rhel_7_to_rhel_8/index https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... , which... appears to use a totally different tool? I don't really know what's going on there, but it does looks like they have some sort of support for in-place upgrades now.
    - jacooper 3y ago
      Its was treated as "avoid of possible", but it loojs like that changed: > An in-place upgrade is the recommended and supported way to upgrade your system to the next major version of RHEL. As for RHEL-clones, your only choice is to use ELEvate(1), by almalinux, which supports other distros too. But overall the process isn't as simple as Debian/Ubuntu, and on clones other than alma, you need to resort to third party tools, with some clones like Rocky saying that in-place upgrades should be avoided. https://almalinux.org/elevate/ https://almalinux.org/elevate/
- mikae1 3y ago
  > One thing I really appreciate about Debian is that when a new stable release comes around, I can just upgrade and be reasonably sure nothing bad will happen. That's good feedback and I've heard it from other people. Personally I've never been able to dist-upgrade Rapbian or Ubuntu without breaking the OS.
nairboon 3y ago
Nice! Debian just works, since decades. Except when you break it yourselves or update Nvidia drivers.
jlpcsl 3y ago
Wow, and it even comes with the very latest KDE Plasma 5.27.5. Quite rare for a stable Debian and makes it more up to date than PopOS. Awesome.
- noisy_boy 3y ago
  Having used Ubuntu and then Pop!_OS, I have been thinking of going back to the roots and just sticking with Debian. But I also like to get the new stuff (not bleeding edge because I don't want things breaking all the time) and I have heard that stable is, well, old stuff (hence stable). Which makes me wonder how unstable is "unstable" in reality? I have a very strong preference for sticking to .deb packages due to their wide availability so not really looking at cool distros like Arch.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    "Unstable" is actually unstable. What you want is "Testing," or if you're a little more conservative, you want Stable + backports: https://backports.debian.org/ https://backports.debian.org/ > You are running Debian stable, because you prefer the Debian stable tree. It runs great, there is just one problem: the software is a little bit outdated compared to other distributions. This is where backports come in. > Backports are packages taken from the next Debian release (called "testing"), adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable. Because the package is also present in the next Debian release, you can easily upgrade your stable+backports system once the next Debian release comes out. (In a few cases, usually for security updates, backports are also created from the Debian unstable distribution.)
    - yyyk 3y ago
      "Testing" has the problem where security patches also get delayed, so it ends up less secure than unstable or stable (!). Unstable isn't that bad IMHO, stable+backports also works.
ErneX 3y ago
All my VMs are Debian. Thanks a lot to everyone involved.
ctippett 3y ago
Just upgraded my Debian WSL distro and the experience couldn't have been more anti-climatic – I had to double-check lsb_release to make sure I'd actually upgraded, it was that seamless.
igtztorrero 3y ago
This is a Real Hacker News Yeeei My favorite Fast Linux distro keep going !!! Congratulations
kayson 3y ago
This is great news! I really like Debian as a docker host for self hosting since it doesn't have a lot of fluff. The old package versions do cause occasional problems though...
guiambros 3y ago
What a weird announcement. It says "To install Debian 12 bookworm ... you can choose from a variety of installation media types to Download..." and "If you simply want to try Debian 12 bookworm... you can use one of the available live images" as if it were all available, but in fact the Debian 12 images are not ready. It feels like the blog post was written before images were created, but they forgot to add a comment saying when it'll be available for download and published anyway. I understand by the comments that the apt repos were already updated, so you could install bullseye 11.7 and upgrade to 12 in the OS, but seems a convoluted way to do it. I guess I won't be trying out 12 this weekend.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pja 3y ago
  The CD images should be downloadable towards the end of the day if previous releases are anything to go by. This HN post jumped the gun a little with the Debian Wiki page: the final official release happens when https://debian.org/ https://debian.org/ gets updated to point to the new installation media.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    We seem to have this conversation for every release; I wish Debian would make it very explicit when exactly a new release is "released", perhaps by sticking a banner at the top of the relevant pages that says something like "Debian 12 'Bookworm' has NOT been formally released but is expected to ship at $TIME/$DATE"
kmos17 3y ago
Congrats and major props to the Debian community! Running Debian in vm’s is such a pleasure, very fast boot times, rock solid, easy install. In contrast recent ubuntu installs have only given me problems.
denysonique 3y ago
I see this old-package argument over and over again and I think it is inaccurate, considering that an estimated 95% of Ubuntu users use the LTS version, the below table demonstrates that Debian 12 (stable) packages are newer than those of of Ubuntu 22.04. Both Debian 12 and Ubuntu 22.04 are LTS versions with 5 years of support. Ubuntu 22.04 Kernel 5.19 (new installs only, existing installs 5.15) systemd 249 KDE Plasma 5.24 Gnome 42 Debian 12 Kernel 6.1 systemd 252 KDE Plasma 5.27 Gnome 43
- _joel 3y ago
  Whilst I'm no longer an Ubuntu user due to their snap debacle, I don't think this is all that fair, they released over a year apart and LTS is LTS for a reason :)
- forty 3y ago
  I have always used stable on my servers and testing on my laptop but I recently switched to stable on the laptop with kernel from backports (I have fairly recent hardware). I have never been happier :) (to be fair, staging was fairly stable too, but still broke small stuff occasionally, and I feel I'm too old to deal with this ^^)
- dima55 3y ago
  This is true by definition. Ubuntu releases are forked from Debian at the time of their release, so Ubuntu 22.04 is where Debian was in April 2022.
- kijin 3y ago
  Debian Stable and Ubuntu LTS tend to alternate with respect to who has newer packages, because Debian ships on odd years and Ubuntu LTS on even years. For most purposes, though, I find that I increasingly don't care about 1 or 2 years of difference in the base OS. Most of the toolchain is stable and well established. There are only a small handful of things I want to pin to a specific version (like node.js or Python), but these can usually be installed side by side with default packages. If not, I can always install it in a container. :)
- 3y ago
BaudouinVH 3y ago
https://i.imgur.com/X9B5kFb.png https://i.imgur.com/X9B5kFb.png <-- 365 Go (or should that read 365 Mo?)
butz 3y ago
> The overall disk usage for "bookworm" is 365,016,420 kB (365 GB) Time to flex new SSD drive and install ALL the packages. Of course, I'll do it a bit later, when downloads will get back to normal levels.
_joel 3y ago
Have they released netinst images yet, can only see 11.7
janzer 3y ago
For those wanting to try this out note that the download links in this post are still giving the previous Bullseye (11.7) release at the moment.
ThinkBeat 3y ago
It is amazing how this group of volunteers create the foundation for many more commercial Linux ventures and use by billion-dollar companies. A lot of end users of different distros do not even know that Debian is the foundation. I will as go as far as to say Debian had solved a lot of the hard issues and then other sprinkle it. (Probably not a popular view) Anyways thanks to all the Debian team members. Your work ought to be better known.
oftenwrong 3y ago
The amount of effort put into Debian is truly impressive. I have used it for decades and it has been remarkably stable. Use the stable release with unattended-upgrades and it's almost zero-maintenance. Also, an estimated 96.3% of packages are built reproducibly for amd64. https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/bookworm/index_suite_amd64_stats.html https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/bookworm/index_...
jedisct1 3y ago
The dnscrypt-proxy package doesn't exist any more?
- pabs3 3y ago
  There was a build failure in one of its dependencies and that bug didn't get fixed in time for it to re-enter bookworm before the freeze. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dnscrypt-proxy https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dnscrypt-proxy https://tracker.debian.org/news/1366204/dnscrypt-proxy-removed-from-testing/ https://tracker.debian.org/news/1366204/dnscrypt-proxy-remov... https://bugs.debian.org/1017302 https://bugs.debian.org/1017302
xinul 3y ago
[dead]
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
I'm not a Linux expert, I just want an OS that works well, and that's debian for me. Now, how do I upgrade? Just apt upgrade? Does it matter that I have i3wm instead of whatever the default is?
- zargon 3y ago
  The upgrade instructions are in the release notes. It looks long but is pretty straightforward if you haven't installed software from outside the debian ecosystem or created a frankenstein mix of packages from non-stable, non-backports distro versions. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch...
  - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
    I've installed vs code by downloading a .Deb, not an apt repo. Does that count as "software Frankenstein"? Follow up question, what's the worse that can happen? Vscode will break, or might the os get corrupted?
    - zargon 3y ago
      The Frankenstein stuff usually involves mixing package repos. Software distributed as a stand-alone .deb is generally pretty self-contained. I personally usually leave them alone. If you're following along with the upgrade instructions, it will have you remove "obsolete" packages. "Obsolete" packages are those which are not referenced from any currently configured package repo. So manually installed packages will show up there. You can decide whether to keep them or not when reviewing that list.
- e12e 3y ago
  > Now, how do I upgrade? Read the documentation, follow it. https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/release-notes... > Just apt upgrade? Mostly (please do RTFM): # update to latest point release of current system: sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt --purge autoremove # Update sources list sudo sed -i 's/bullseye/bookworm/g' /etc/apt/sources.list # upgrade to bookworm: sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade --without-new-pkgs sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt --purge autoremove > Does it matter that I have i3wm instead of whatever the default is? Generally no, unless you've specified/use third party (or to a lesser extent "back port") software sources.

594 points by Chatting 3y ago

Finally. I migrated from the snap-cursed Ubuntu to Debian. I have been running Bookworm since last summer, and now I can stay in the stable distribution until I really need a new version of some software. Should not happen too soon.

guerby 3y ago

And first beta of proxmox 8.0 based on debian 12: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Roadmap#Proxmox_VE_8.0_beta1 https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Roadmap#Proxmox_VE_8.0_beta1

lockhouse 3y ago

If any of the Debian team is here, congratulations and thank you for putting together such a solid, consistently high quality Linux distro.

hosteur 3y ago

Fantastic! Can’t wait to upgrade my servers and desktop. Debian is an absolute marvel.

troad 3y ago

Congratulations to the Debian team! An important change appears to be the inclusion of non-free firmware by default in the official install image for the first time, as a result of this vote: https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003 Intriguing. I feel a little torn on this. One the one hand, I appreciate being able to install Debian from an official image onto a bothersome device. On the other, I can't help but feel we're losing something when even a purist distribution like Debian is forced to concede in the fight against proprietary blobs. Edit: dropped the word 'kernel' from 'proprietary blobs', as rightly picked up by kind commenters below.

GrumpySloth 3y ago
I've never had a computer which would work with the official ideologically-pure installer. Always had to use the non-free one. I'm glad this vote turned out the way it did.
- cesarb 3y ago
  > I've never had a computer which would work with the official ideologically-pure installer. I had more than once, back when I first installed Debian in the late 1900s and early 2000s, and I believe my experience wasn't unique. Back then, not requiring any loadable firmware was common; the hardware either didn't require firmware, or came with the full firmware in a ROM chip in the device itself. And that explains the issue: Debian is an old distribution, coming from these times when not having non-free firmware (or even any firmware at all) in the distribution was viable, and often fully usable.
  - NikkiA 3y ago
    Same, and I used to keep a little cache of 'known working without firmware issues' wlan cards (pcmcia), I probably still have some somewhere; though I don't think I have any pcmcia capable laptops anymore
vbezhenar 3y ago
Firmware is not kernel blob. It's executed on separate device and has nothing to do with Linux. It's about open hardware, not open software. I don't think that it's worth to pursue this direction for Debian.
progval 3y ago
For devices which have firmware, does it matter whether the firmware is loaded by the OS rather than hardcoded inside the device? The former at least gives an opportunity to fix bugs. And if I'm not mistaken, this isn't about kernel blobs (which run on the CPU as kernel code), only code that gets loaded on devices (including CPU microcode).

juujian 3y ago

Didn't expect for shiny-server to be mentioned so prominently. I might actually give Debian a shot for my personal machine. The five years of updatea sounds great, the LTS option is the main reason why I went with Ubuntu so far.

28304283409234 3y ago

Never ceases to amaze me. There is all kinds of things wrong with Debian I am sure. But at the end of the day, what that community does is mindblowingly impressive. Much gratitude from a Slink-and-a-half user, back in the day.

whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
All kinds of things wrong? It’s the base for half the Linux distros. What could you possibly mean?
- marpstar 3y ago
  I think they were referring to the fact that everything has something "wrong" with it, but that those things don't invalidate the value of the greater whole.
  - pietro72ohboy 3y ago
    Seems to be an extremely charitable interpretation of the parent comment. I also read it as -- "Despite the plethora of issues with Debian, it manages to surprise". Like the second-level commenter, I'm also curious to hear more about these "issues".
    - 28304283409234 3y ago
      You poor person, reading malice where none was intended. marpstar was correct. I am a Debian fanboi since Slink. Since it was drilled into me by rvdm, ssmeenk, miquels, jdassen and dth. And have seen Debian survive and thrive a lot of critisism. "Too slow release cycle, not Free(Dom) enough, Too free, systemd, too much politics, too many architectures, etc....etc....etc.." Yes, any large community will be flawed and deliver flawed solutions. And I for one celebrate those flaws and features, and appreciate the sheer magnitude and accomplishment of this enormous, complex, great project.
      - 3y ago

thanatos519 3y ago

I installed -rc4 on a new work laptop and it's super nice. I have some gripes about the installer's partitioning tool but I suspect that it would have been fine if I was willing to reboot a couple more times. The laptop was locked down and I needed someone to type the BIOS password every time I wanted to boot off the USB stick. I wanted 4k blocks all the way down but got stuck with 512b sectors.

swayvil 3y ago

Heck yes. Best distro of the best OS on the planet. I look forward to upgrading.

nntwozz 3y ago

The gift that keeps on giving, runs perfect on my headless 10-year old gaming-PC turned server in the basement.

themoonisachees 3y ago
I highly recommend installing proxmox and running debian VMs. It's really easy and the returns are great.
- cf100clunk 3y ago
  In the parent comment to yours, ''runs perfect'' means runs perfect. No need for an insertion of an additional layer of stuff to just get back to ''runs perfect''.

kramerger 3y ago

Do you recommend switching from Ubuntu TLS to this one? Even to a heavy LXC and multipass user? What had kept me on Ubuntu so far has been their out of box laptop support (I.e. WiFi drivers).

marcrosoft 3y ago
I switched away from Ubuntu when they started putting advertisements in the motd and login screens.
- kramerger 3y ago
  That didn't bother me much as it is "advertisement" about things related to my system. What I did not like was Firefox taking 20s to start.
  - themoonisachees 3y ago
    Ubuntu has (used to at least) ads as apps in the app launcher, served by canonical and not at all related to the software you're using.
  - marcrosoft 3y ago
    No I’m not talking about useful things like last login, average cpu, etc. they were advertising their cloud products.
28304283409234 3y ago
Moved back to Debian because of lxc on Ubuntu requiring snaps. Turns out same problem on Debian. Snapd consumes 100% cpu. All. The. Time. Hoping Bookworm will solve it. Else I will be moving to Archlinux, which has lxc without snapd.
- yrro 3y ago
  I don't think lxc on Debian has ever needed snapd? https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/lxc https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/lxc

lairv 3y ago

Had to reinstall ubuntu 3 times already since the beginning of this year and thus switched to debian, hopefully I'll be able to settle in for a while

profwalkstr 3y ago
What happened?
- lairv 3y ago
  - Tried 23.04 and found too many bugs (I guess this doesn't count) - Some day 22.04 randomly started without GUI and I couldn't get it back either with ubuntu-desktop and startx - I installed a Python package without a virtual environment and it somehow interfered with system Python, bootloader broke It's possible that those errors were recoverable but I'm not a linux expert and I couldn't repair it after ~2h of stackoverflow
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Since I disabled auto-update most of such issues have gone away and what works stays working. I suspect the second was due to an auto-update if you had that enabled and don't get me started on python versioning and the way that can impact a system.
  - zekrioca 3y ago
    Never go through odd versions (19.xy, 21.xy, 23.xy,…).
  - colanderman 3y ago
    > I installed a Python package without a virtual environment Coincidentally, doing this is now disabled in Debian Bookworm.
  - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
    > installed a Python package without a virtual environment and it somehow interfered with system Python, bootloader broke Shouldn't the OS python be protected by root?

bacchusracine 3y ago

Does anyone know if Bookworm includes the Ubuntu-Mate version of the Mate desktop?

bikenaga 3y ago
I'm on testing, which just released as Debian 12. mate-desktop is 1.26.0, but a few things (like mate-applets) are 1.26.1 and a few (like mate-panel) show up as 1.27.0. I don't use Ubuntu, so I don't know how these compare to whatever Ubuntu uses.
ech0plex88 3y ago
Unfortunately no, the panel layouts aren't there by default. However, I've written some guides that can help close the appearance & capabilities gap. https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/12gyjpg/debian_mate_appreciation_post_user_guides/ https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/12gyjpg/debian_mate... https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/13ueaub/debian_12_mate_window_manager_update/ https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/13ueaub/debian_12_m...
- bacchusracine 3y ago
  Thank you for those links, since tomorrow I expect most of Reddit to go dark I took the liberty of archiving them so I can be sure I can go into more depth then. https://archive.is/iH9un https://archive.is/iH9un https://archive.is/R0oBe https://archive.is/R0oBe https://archive.is/IKViC https://archive.is/IKViC https://archive.is/1Pyzs https://archive.is/1Pyzs

fb03 3y ago

Testing this out in a VM. I want to move away from Ubuntu (honestly, from SNAPs)

troad 3y ago
I'm also considering this, but I'm a little afraid of being stuck in the slow lane when it comes to software updates. I'm aware of Backports, but I'm led to believe it has a somewhat limited selection. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to try a combination of Debian, for general system stability, and Nix, for specific tools where I need newer releases? Has anyone tried this combination before? If so, how did you find it?
- chungy 3y ago
  Combining Debian with Nix or Guix is a fairly excellent way to go. Stable OS base, selective bleeding-edge apps (or hell, multiple runtime versions that would otherwise conflict). Win-win.
- Tuna-Fish 3y ago
  If you want to run a desktop system, I'd recommend Pop! OS. Right now, they seem to be the distro that cares the most about desktop experience.
- cardanome 3y ago
  Why not use Linux Mint? It is Ubuntu-based but without the bad parts like snap. So you get to keep access to all the Ubuntu packages but also your sanity.
  - leesalminen 3y ago
    I’ve been maintaining a machine deployed to my mother-in-law’s house for ~4 years with Mint. She went from needing tech support every time I was at her house to never overnight. I highly recommend Mint for this scenario.
- aragilar 3y ago
  Is this a desktop/laptop? You can always run unstable if you think stable is too old (I run unstable on my dev systems, and stable on servers/anything I want to setup and let run). FYI, if you use a Ubuntu LTS release, then unless you always run the latest LTS, the majority of the packages (being in universe) will actually be older than Debian stable (and will always be older then Debian unstable).

haunter 3y ago

Congrats! Been using it on a 2017 Thinkpad X270 with MATE. Everything works perfectly. Honestly might not be the "flashiest" distro but does the job perfectly well. And personally I always recommend it to people new to Linux.

unpopularopp 3y ago

A bit offtopic... are there any distros besides PoPOS that comes with the proprietary Nvidia drivers preinstalled? I tried to use (live image) Debian on an RTX 4070 PC and nothing worked just black screen after GRUB. PoPOS works out of the box but honestly I'd prefer something more simple as Debian.

yrro 3y ago
How does PoPOS accomplish this without violating the license of the kernel and the NVIDIA drivers?
- dezgeg 3y ago
  The sad truth is the license of non-GPL Linux kernel modules is very rarely cared about nor enforced. There are ton of embedded devices that don't bother with the NVIDIA shim scheme but ship with straight proprietary .ko:s on the device.
- chungy 3y ago
  Since it is a distribution by a hardware vendor that ships NVIDIA GPUs, I'll assume that they got a licensed from NVIDIA to ship their operating system with the proprietary drivers.
  - yrro 3y ago
    Possibly, but what about the license of Linux? Surely nvidia.ko (being a derived work of both the GPL-licensed Linux kernel and the proprietary NVIDIA kernel object files) is non-distributable? Otherwise why does every other distribution faff around with akmods/DKMS, etc?
noisy_boy 3y ago
I have been thinking of switching to Debian from Pop!_OS and have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 with Nvidia GeForce GTX 1650 - if graphics drivers are an issue, then my wish is dead in water.

encom 3y ago

But it's /not/ released though. Their own news section mentions that cd images are still being built, which seems like something that should have happened already. There's nothing but 11.7 available for download.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
The bookworm apt repository is in the final state, so Bookworm is released for those with existing Debian installations who can just do a search/replace of "bullseye" to "bookworm" in their apt.sources file, and run apt dist-upgrade.
- encom 3y ago
  Sure, but the announcement mentions and links to Bookworm media downloads which are old 11.7 media. It's confusing, annoying and honestly kind of amateurish. I like Debian, but this is a screw-up. 20:00 in mainland Europe and it's still not out. My work laptop is in a sad state of semi-brokenness (self-inflicted), and I had been looking forward to giving it a fresh start over the weekend. Now I'll have to wait another week.

sylware 3y ago

Finally with init system alternatives or do they still shove systemd down our throat (if so I'll stick to devuan gnu/linux instead)?

yrro 3y ago
Finally? Debian has always shipped sysvinit and a bunch of other less-used init systems.
- sylware 3y ago
  I cannot find install images without systemd and with sysvinit. Do I miss something?
  - biorach 3y ago
    That's because systemd is the default. You can choose sysvinit during installation https://wiki.debian.org/Init#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_installation_time https://wiki.debian.org/Init#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_i...
    - probably_wrong 3y ago
      One one hand I am thankful for the fact that this guide exist. On the other hand, I am getting strong HHGTTG vibes [1] from them: "you can choose sysvinit as long as you follow a complex set of steps that's likely to go wrong detailed inside a hard-to-find package". Maybe I'm asking too much, but for me "official" support would mean that I can do it from the installer directly, no terminals and chroots required. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on-display-on-display-i-eventually https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on...
    - zh3 3y ago
      Or post-installation. Basically install sysvinit-core, copy inittab to /etc and reboot (systemd can then be removed/autoremoved/purged according to taste).
    - 3y ago

drumhead 3y ago

I've was an inveterate distro hopper, but finally settled on Debian because of its stability. Its not the most user friendly but when you get it up and running "it just works". Debian really is fantastic achievement in software.

DrJohanson 3y ago
[dead]

jfhr 3y ago

> The new systemd-resolved package will not be installed automatically on upgrades as it has been split into a separate package. If using the systemd-resolved system service, please install the new package manually after the upgrade, and note that until it has been installed, DNS resolution may no longer work as the service will not be present on the system. will installing over the internet work without DNS resolution?

pas 3y ago
yes, as the script adds/replaces the sources.list lines, then apt i downloads the packages, only then it starts the installation of them
- e12e 3y ago
  But you can't (easily) get the deb package for systemd-resolved after the upgrade has (possibly) broken DNS?
  - pas 3y ago
    yeah, that's not ideal, or possibly very bad UX, depending on how the update happens. (if the running stub resolver of resolved is not shut down, or at least an effort is made to fix resolve.conf during removal of the old package, then it might cover most of the users. as far as I understand the 11 -> 12 upgrade works without manual intervention, and this is an edge case, as systemd-resolved is not enabled by default on Debian 11.)

krylon 3y ago

One thing I really appreciate about Debian is that when a new stable release comes around, I can just upgrade and be reasonably sure nothing bad will happen. It's not exciting, but a fair amount of the time, this is what people expect from their operating system. Support my hardware, give me the software I need, and stay out of my way otherwise. And that is what Debian does very well.

jacooper 3y ago
Its baffling that RHEL-based distros still don't support in place upgrades.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Strange; I would have assumed that `dnf system-upgrade` would have made it from Fedora to RHEL by now. Actually searching turns up https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/upgrading_from_rhel_7_to_rhel_8/index https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... , which... appears to use a totally different tool? I don't really know what's going on there, but it does looks like they have some sort of support for in-place upgrades now.
  - jacooper 3y ago
    Its was treated as "avoid of possible", but it loojs like that changed: > An in-place upgrade is the recommended and supported way to upgrade your system to the next major version of RHEL. As for RHEL-clones, your only choice is to use ELEvate(1), by almalinux, which supports other distros too. But overall the process isn't as simple as Debian/Ubuntu, and on clones other than alma, you need to resort to third party tools, with some clones like Rocky saying that in-place upgrades should be avoided. https://almalinux.org/elevate/ https://almalinux.org/elevate/
mikae1 3y ago
> One thing I really appreciate about Debian is that when a new stable release comes around, I can just upgrade and be reasonably sure nothing bad will happen. That's good feedback and I've heard it from other people. Personally I've never been able to dist-upgrade Rapbian or Ubuntu without breaking the OS.

nairboon 3y ago

Nice! Debian just works, since decades. Except when you break it yourselves or update Nvidia drivers.

jlpcsl 3y ago

Wow, and it even comes with the very latest KDE Plasma 5.27.5. Quite rare for a stable Debian and makes it more up to date than PopOS. Awesome.

noisy_boy 3y ago
Having used Ubuntu and then Pop!_OS, I have been thinking of going back to the roots and just sticking with Debian. But I also like to get the new stuff (not bleeding edge because I don't want things breaking all the time) and I have heard that stable is, well, old stuff (hence stable). Which makes me wonder how unstable is "unstable" in reality? I have a very strong preference for sticking to .deb packages due to their wide availability so not really looking at cool distros like Arch.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  "Unstable" is actually unstable. What you want is "Testing," or if you're a little more conservative, you want Stable + backports: https://backports.debian.org/ https://backports.debian.org/ > You are running Debian stable, because you prefer the Debian stable tree. It runs great, there is just one problem: the software is a little bit outdated compared to other distributions. This is where backports come in. > Backports are packages taken from the next Debian release (called "testing"), adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable. Because the package is also present in the next Debian release, you can easily upgrade your stable+backports system once the next Debian release comes out. (In a few cases, usually for security updates, backports are also created from the Debian unstable distribution.)
  - yyyk 3y ago
    "Testing" has the problem where security patches also get delayed, so it ends up less secure than unstable or stable (!). Unstable isn't that bad IMHO, stable+backports also works.

ErneX 3y ago

All my VMs are Debian. Thanks a lot to everyone involved.

ctippett 3y ago

Just upgraded my Debian WSL distro and the experience couldn't have been more anti-climatic – I had to double-check lsb_release to make sure I'd actually upgraded, it was that seamless.

igtztorrero 3y ago

This is a Real Hacker News Yeeei My favorite Fast Linux distro keep going !!! Congratulations

kayson 3y ago

This is great news! I really like Debian as a docker host for self hosting since it doesn't have a lot of fluff. The old package versions do cause occasional problems though...

guiambros 3y ago

What a weird announcement. It says "To install Debian 12 bookworm ... you can choose from a variety of installation media types to Download..." and "If you simply want to try Debian 12 bookworm... you can use one of the available live images" as if it were all available, but in fact the Debian 12 images are not ready. It feels like the blog post was written before images were created, but they forgot to add a comment saying when it'll be available for download and published anyway. I understand by the comments that the apt repos were already updated, so you could install bullseye 11.7 and upgrade to 12 in the OS, but seems a convoluted way to do it. I guess I won't be trying out 12 this weekend.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pja 3y ago
The CD images should be downloadable towards the end of the day if previous releases are anything to go by. This HN post jumped the gun a little with the Debian Wiki page: the final official release happens when https://debian.org/ https://debian.org/ gets updated to point to the new installation media.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  We seem to have this conversation for every release; I wish Debian would make it very explicit when exactly a new release is "released", perhaps by sticking a banner at the top of the relevant pages that says something like "Debian 12 'Bookworm' has NOT been formally released but is expected to ship at $TIME/$DATE"

kmos17 3y ago

Congrats and major props to the Debian community! Running Debian in vm’s is such a pleasure, very fast boot times, rock solid, easy install. In contrast recent ubuntu installs have only given me problems.

denysonique 3y ago

I see this old-package argument over and over again and I think it is inaccurate, considering that an estimated 95% of Ubuntu users use the LTS version, the below table demonstrates that Debian 12 (stable) packages are newer than those of of Ubuntu 22.04. Both Debian 12 and Ubuntu 22.04 are LTS versions with 5 years of support. Ubuntu 22.04 Kernel 5.19 (new installs only, existing installs 5.15) systemd 249 KDE Plasma 5.24 Gnome 42 Debian 12 Kernel 6.1 systemd 252 KDE Plasma 5.27 Gnome 43

_joel 3y ago
Whilst I'm no longer an Ubuntu user due to their snap debacle, I don't think this is all that fair, they released over a year apart and LTS is LTS for a reason :)
forty 3y ago
I have always used stable on my servers and testing on my laptop but I recently switched to stable on the laptop with kernel from backports (I have fairly recent hardware). I have never been happier :) (to be fair, staging was fairly stable too, but still broke small stuff occasionally, and I feel I'm too old to deal with this ^^)
dima55 3y ago
This is true by definition. Ubuntu releases are forked from Debian at the time of their release, so Ubuntu 22.04 is where Debian was in April 2022.
kijin 3y ago
Debian Stable and Ubuntu LTS tend to alternate with respect to who has newer packages, because Debian ships on odd years and Ubuntu LTS on even years. For most purposes, though, I find that I increasingly don't care about 1 or 2 years of difference in the base OS. Most of the toolchain is stable and well established. There are only a small handful of things I want to pin to a specific version (like node.js or Python), but these can usually be installed side by side with default packages. If not, I can always install it in a container. :)
3y ago

BaudouinVH 3y ago

https://i.imgur.com/X9B5kFb.png https://i.imgur.com/X9B5kFb.png <-- 365 Go (or should that read 365 Mo?)

butz 3y ago

> The overall disk usage for "bookworm" is 365,016,420 kB (365 GB) Time to flex new SSD drive and install ALL the packages. Of course, I'll do it a bit later, when downloads will get back to normal levels.

_joel 3y ago

Have they released netinst images yet, can only see 11.7

janzer 3y ago

For those wanting to try this out note that the download links in this post are still giving the previous Bullseye (11.7) release at the moment.

ThinkBeat 3y ago

It is amazing how this group of volunteers create the foundation for many more commercial Linux ventures and use by billion-dollar companies. A lot of end users of different distros do not even know that Debian is the foundation. I will as go as far as to say Debian had solved a lot of the hard issues and then other sprinkle it. (Probably not a popular view) Anyways thanks to all the Debian team members. Your work ought to be better known.

oftenwrong 3y ago

The amount of effort put into Debian is truly impressive. I have used it for decades and it has been remarkably stable. Use the stable release with unattended-upgrades and it's almost zero-maintenance. Also, an estimated 96.3% of packages are built reproducibly for amd64. https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/bookworm/index_suite_amd64_stats.html https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/bookworm/index_...

jedisct1 3y ago

The dnscrypt-proxy package doesn't exist any more?

pabs3 3y ago
There was a build failure in one of its dependencies and that bug didn't get fixed in time for it to re-enter bookworm before the freeze. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dnscrypt-proxy https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dnscrypt-proxy https://tracker.debian.org/news/1366204/dnscrypt-proxy-removed-from-testing/ https://tracker.debian.org/news/1366204/dnscrypt-proxy-remov... https://bugs.debian.org/1017302 https://bugs.debian.org/1017302

xinul 3y ago

[dead]

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago

I'm not a Linux expert, I just want an OS that works well, and that's debian for me. Now, how do I upgrade? Just apt upgrade? Does it matter that I have i3wm instead of whatever the default is?

zargon 3y ago
The upgrade instructions are in the release notes. It looks long but is pretty straightforward if you haven't installed software from outside the debian ecosystem or created a frankenstein mix of packages from non-stable, non-backports distro versions. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch...
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
  I've installed vs code by downloading a .Deb, not an apt repo. Does that count as "software Frankenstein"? Follow up question, what's the worse that can happen? Vscode will break, or might the os get corrupted?
  - zargon 3y ago
    The Frankenstein stuff usually involves mixing package repos. Software distributed as a stand-alone .deb is generally pretty self-contained. I personally usually leave them alone. If you're following along with the upgrade instructions, it will have you remove "obsolete" packages. "Obsolete" packages are those which are not referenced from any currently configured package repo. So manually installed packages will show up there. You can decide whether to keep them or not when reviewing that list.
e12e 3y ago
> Now, how do I upgrade? Read the documentation, follow it. https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/release-notes... > Just apt upgrade? Mostly (please do RTFM): # update to latest point release of current system: sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt --purge autoremove # Update sources list sudo sed -i 's/bullseye/bookworm/g' /etc/apt/sources.list # upgrade to bookworm: sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade --without-new-pkgs sudo apt full-upgrade sudo apt --purge autoremove > Does it matter that I have i3wm instead of whatever the default is? Generally no, unless you've specified/use third party (or to a lesser extent "back port") software sources.