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Bay Area homeowner is the face of California’s latest housing drama
- digdugdirk 4y agoIs there anywhere to see the list of projects that are being insta-approved as they come in? Also, does anyone know what legal recourse there is to block projects that are submitted under the current no-zoning state?
- HDThoreaun 4y agoThere is some talk that builders remedy may be exempt from CEQA because of some clauses in its law. It will surely face some CEQA suits so remains to be seen how the courts will handle.
- aggronn 4y agoProjects can still effectively be denied/delayed from discretionary environmental review. State is working on pre-empting or expediting that as well for these affordable housing projects.
- Analemma_ 4y agoMy understanding is that they can still be delayed by CEQA lawsuits, which NIMBYs have become very good at, but at least CEQA usually only delays projects instead of blocking them entirely.
- asdff 4y agoSometimes the delay or threat of delay is enough to take a project from being profitable to being unprofitable for any local developer. This sometimes explains why you have vacant lots in areas like the bay area where any and all land would be in demand. Doesn't matter how much demand there would be if you can't afford to capture it at the pricepoint it exists at.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoSo there's not enough demand then? There's theoretically demand for millions of luxury penthouses but only a tiny level of actual demand at the pricepoint where it can be feasible delivered in any major city.
- avrionov 4y agoHere is an website which tracks projects around bay area: https://sfyimby.com https://sfyimby.com
- abeppu 4y agoAn earlier Chronicle article anticipates some ways projects will be blocked. It sounds like this isn't the unambiguous green light that some articles suggest. > Environmental review is one such way. Normally, cities perform one environmental review for a citywide or neighborhood-wide zoning plan. So long as project applications comply with those plans, they can piggyback on the parent environmental report. But since builder’s remedy applications often disregard local zoning, cities can ask developers to complete a full environmental impact report for a project. Once that’s done, cities can then claim that any impact — noise, shadows, pollution — in the report was insufficiently studied and demand costly redos. Community groups can also take builders to court. > Cities can further pile on costs for builder’s remedy projects by requiring infrastructure upgrades like new sewer connections. Local governments can also potentially exact revenge by making other applications from developers more unpleasant — for instance, by subjecting them to additional scrutiny or longer processing times. This threat will likely dissuade many developers from pursuing a builder’s remedy project. The last portion, where local governments might intentionally punish developers, may be why there's not a bunch of large experienced developers rushing to submit plans. https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/builders-remedy-california-17517171.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/builde...
- kneebonian 4y agoI'll throw out I also know a guy who is a developer, they have had enough bad issues working in Oregon alone that they have 0 intention of ever touching anything in CA with a 10ft pole, simply because it isn't worth it to deal with the hassle and the headaches.
- occz 4y agoZoning laws broadly are probably still in effect, right? I doubt you could build something industrial in residential zones. It's just the bad parts of zoning that are disabled, if I understood the article correctly. Excellent development in any case. Hope a lot of good dense housing gets built.
- hardtke 4y agoThe same "Builder's Remedy" kicked in last year in many Southern California cities when they missed similar deadlines, and as far as I know it has led to approximately (if not exactly) zero new construction.
- more_corn 4y agoSomething about that turn of phrase makes me smile. Intellectual humility while making a strong statement.
- another_story 4y agoHow closely are you following residential home building in most of Southern California that you're able to make this statement?
- sroussey 4y agoUnder the builder's remedy, a developer can propose any housing project, regardless of existing zoning and land use codes, and it is automatically considered “approved,” as long as it doesn't present a clear danger to public health or safety. https://smdp.com/2022/10/24/16-projects-4562-housing-units-how-did-we-get-here/ https://smdp.com/2022/10/24/16-projects-4562-housing-units-h...
- cheriot 4y agoIt take years to get construction approved in CA so not sure the ending has been written.
- majormajor 4y agoIt takes time. https://therealdeal.com/la/2023/01/18/shekhters-ws-communities-to-list-2000-unit-santa-monica-builders-remedy-project/ https://therealdeal.com/la/2023/01/18/shekhters-ws-communiti... Here, for instance: "Santa Monica officials later indicated they would wait to respond until WSC filed its full project application, which is due six months from the preliminary filing." Interesting that the developer that started the commotion is listing some of the sites they started the application process on for sale, but not necessarily indicative of it not going to happen - "Even as it prepares the listing WSC is still moving ahead with the full application, Walter confirmed this week." from this Jan 2023 article. Could just be looking to offload some risk to someone else who now thinks there's enough of a chance of these things getting built to pay more for the lots than they would've last year.
- GalenErso 4y agoThe next target should be CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act. NIMBYs can endlessly delay new construction by requesting CEQA assessments. I am hugely pro-environment, mind you, but an environmental assessment for a new development should be relatively fast and easy to complete, and it shouldn't prevent new builds wholesale except in the direst cases.
- ecf 4y agoSome millimeter sized shrimp completely altered expansion plans for an entire UC campus. https://www.sfgate.com/green/article/MERCED-UC-expansion-plans-again-run-up-against-2647615.php https://www.sfgate.com/green/article/MERCED-UC-expansion-pla...
- bb611 4y agoThe shrimp were an impediment to a small fraction of the planned build, the build was modified with minimal impact on the project, and an even more aggressive expansion of the campus was completed in the last 5 years without impact. If anything, that appears to be a successful use of CEQA, where a large and important building project was effectively balanced with the need to protect wildlife without major disruption to the final buildings.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- klooney 4y agoEspecially infill. There are no endangered animals living in SOMA.
- asdff 4y agoJust wait for the SOMA sewer rat to become a protected species
- shuckles 4y agoExempting infill housing from CEQA is on the YIMBY agenda. That said, CEQA only applies to discretionary decisions, so if permitting residential development is a ministerial decision (i.e. anyone who meets certain criteria is approved), then the CEQA review for it is incorporated into the Housing Element. That is itself a huge step forward.
- reducesuffering 4y agoHey, it's HN's zbrozek in the article. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=zbrozek https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=zbrozek
- hummus_bae 4y agoNeat, I didn't know he posted here. He's one of my favorite authors and I've read most, if not all, of his articles. https://www.z https://www.z blozek.com
- jollyllama 4y agoWhat's to stop a landlord from turning a floor in his apartment building into a chicken battery farm now?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- AlgorithmicTime 4y agoYou mean other than practical, financial, and agricultural obstacles?
- giantg2 4y agoThey have high rises for pigs in China. So I guess in some areas they are practical.
- hackerlight 4y agoLaws pertaining to pollution or noise? Zoning laws are redundant at best.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dmitryminkovsky 4y agoBattery chicken farms are known to cause cancer in the State of California?
- gadflyinyoureye 4y agoProbably. Everything does. https://www.newsweek.com/heres-why-everything-gives-you-cancer-california-798750 https://www.newsweek.com/heres-why-everything-gives-you-canc...
- themitigating 4y agoWhat size batteries do chicken use? D?
- newaccount2021 4y ago[dead]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Z_I_F_F 4y agohttps://archive.is/nHQgm https://archive.is/nHQgm
- zitterbewegung 4y agohttps://archive.is/FudmQ https://archive.is/FudmQ
- mistrial9 4y agomedian residential home prices in Solano County (just north-east of San Francisco) went up twenty one percent over one year in 2021. The county overall lost population (again) primarily due to residents moving out of California. source: Solano County Govt. Economic Report 2022
- syspec 4y agoThank you for actually providing a source. I swear I almost only see people say "source" when it's basically themselves!
- samstave 4y agoThis is just a play from high-powered NIMBY SF players to placate the devs, landlords, scumlords and hedgies (like blackRock) Nothing more. REPLY TO BELOW: - If they are not hedge funds, then what are they, BE SPECIFIC.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- astrange 4y agoA mildly funny thing about vacant housing/everything is corporations conspiracists is they can't tell the difference between BlackRock and Blackstone. Though neither one is a hedge fund.
- samstave 4y agoSerious : Would like to learn more about distiction, business model etc between them.... Care to point me somewhere?
- astrange 4y agoThey are completely unrelated companies with similar names. There is nothing to compare. Blackstone is buying houses (though it's more an effect of the housing crisis than the cause of it); BlackRock runs ETFs you can buy in your retirement fund and is known for asking corporations to care about climate change.
- harambae 4y agoblackstone - private equity / alternative investments company (originally mediated M&A deals) blackrock - primarily sells shares in index funds; one of the big 3 index managers (started as a partnership between blackstone and others... that's why the similar name)
- asdff 4y agoWhether or not developers take advantage will still depend on market conditions and the costs to develop housing. For example, recently in LA county voters passed a transfer tax that is espected to quiet development somewhat: https://www.planetizen.com/news/2022/12/120395-critics-expect-las-new-mansion-tax-chill-development-market https://www.planetizen.com/news/2022/12/120395-critics-expec... Plenty of other things beyond taxes add to costs as well. Onerous environmental review, having to add amenities like open courtyard space or balconies, how many elevators might be required, parking requirements, all adds to the cost per unit which leads to fewer units built per loan and the need for higher rents to make those costs pencil out. Even the amount of time things sit in review at city hall has costs. You could very well hit a situation where due to these constraints, not nearly as many builders take advantage of builders remedy as one might expect. This is part of the issue with allowing the onus of adding housing supply in our cities fall on an overregulated industry that depends on achieving a certain profit margin to function.
- samstave 4y agoThat guy in the Mission District of SF who fought this for decades should deserve a windfall... Ill try to find a link, but basically this guy got initial approval to build a building and got hit with a typhoon of zoning laws and knew he was in the right, but a bunch of SF NIMBYS were fighting him forever and he got F'd... This guy deserves something like a payout for someone imprisoned for no reason.
- abeppu 4y agoBut SF is _not_ one of the cities affected by the builder's remedy currently. The article says: > Among large cities, only San Francisco is in compliance.
- fragmede 4y agoSF managed to delay it for 8 years until the next review with lots and lots of promises, but if it doesn't actually manage to build more units, builders remedy is coming for SF in 2030.
- abeppu 4y ago> The builder’s remedy says that noncompliant cities must allow housing at any density and any height, anywhere in the city, as long as at least 20% of the new homes are affordable. https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/builders-remedy-california-17517171.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/builde... For most places in the Bay Area, is there an existing affordability percentage requirement? How much of an increase is this? I'm not a development/construction insider, but a quick search pulls up a claim that builders often are in the range of 10-20% gross profit. Does a 20% affordable unit requirement swing a normal project to being unprofitable, even if cities can't block it for zoning reasons? https://buildbook.co/blog/home-builders-profit-margin https://buildbook.co/blog/home-builders-profit-margin
- jeffbee 4y ago20% IZ is usually a show-stopper when combined with height and FAR limits but the idea is that there must be some point in the solution space that works with 20% IZ. San Francisco has IZ set at between 20 and 33% depending on the project and this is widely seen as a blanket anti-development policy.
- celestialcheese 4y ago20% was a showstopper when cities could drag things out for 10 years with red-tape and consultant hell. Now it could be doable with a lot of that red tape is gone.
- Karrot_Kream 4y agoMost cities in the Bay with IZ have close to 10% with a few close to 20%. Indeed, 20% IZ only usually works in high income areas where the market rate for housing is high enough to make the affordable unit requirements profitable. Most Builder's Remedy housing will therefore be proposed in high income areas.
- jmyeet 4y agoI think this article overstates the risks to those wanting to use the builder's remedy. It suggests wealthy towns would have the means to fight this in court. But the reality is the towns have very little legal defense. Just last year, 4000+ new units were approved via the builder's remedy in Santa Monica, a rich envlcave of LA that has notoriously fought development with oppressive zoning for decades. Also, the point isn't to build giant high rises in the middle of Los Altos. It is to bypass restrictive zoning that doesn't let you build anything at all other than single family houses on large lots. In a lot of Bay Area towns that will be townhouses and low-rise apartments. But this can make a massive difference to the local housing markets. The builder's remedy is just one of many measures the state has passed in recent years. Others include automatic approval for building residential above commercial and bypassing zoning for lots with wide rights of way. It all adds up. Another aspect to this is just because you have an approved project, as a builder, it doesn't mean you have to build it. It does give you a hell of a bargaining chip with the city over something else you want to build however. All these Bay Area NIMBY enclaves have been fucking around and I imagine a large number of them are about to find out. This week a viral video tour of a high school in Carmel, IN has been circulating [1]. For those who don't understand, particularly non-Americans, schools are funded primarily by local property taxes. This means wealthy towns have facilities like this and poorer communities have buildings that are falling apart. This is economic segregation. A lot of wealthy towns in CA have been fighting state housing mandates because they want to maintain their "character". This includes some ultra-wealthy towns like Atherton. One reason I support what CA is doing here is because by allowing a mix of accomodation it will increase access to facilities like this beyond just the ultra-wealthy. [1]: https://www.insider.com/carmel-high-school-tour-tiktok-public-school-funding-2023-2 https://www.insider.com/carmel-high-school-tour-tiktok-publi...
- jeffbee 4y agoI think it's overstating the case that 4000 units were "approved" in Santa Monica. Some guy pulled papers on the project. Get back to me if any of them break ground. So far, only 899 units worth have filed complete applications and zero of these have got anywhere in the rest of the process. I would not advise holding your breath. Cities have various ways to stop projects. They can drag out things like demolition permits forever.
- flerchin 4y agoBuild baby build.
- jdlyga 4y agoI love when crushing bureaucracy ends up crushing itself
- Vapormac 4y agohttps://archive.is/nHQgm https://archive.is/nHQgm (non paywall)
- theGnuMe 4y agoThis is awesome. I imagine the state will put some weight behind the first lawsuits as well. Build baby build.
- Ancalagon 4y agoDoes this work in say HOA zoned areas?
- anonuser123456 4y agoHOAs are just agreements between homeowners. They cannot exempt or override law.
- m3kw9 4y agoWho’s gonna take the risk to develop when they can come back and say this development is illegal, lots of legal blind spots and gotchas
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nigrioid 4y agoWe're going to build oil refineries and chemical factories next to your house and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
- thunkshift1 4y agoOnly residential properties.. read the article
- guywithahat 4y ago> “I straight up told people I was going to file something if things didn’t shape up. I went to all the meetings and said, ‘Here are the deficiencies,’ he said. “We have so grossly underbuilt housing in California for a half century that you could drop a tent on the ground anywhere in the state and someone will occupy it.” I really like that quote. Unfortunately I'm concerned instead of drafting adequate plans the city will just use all of its resources to sue people for using builders remedy permits.
- LatteLazy 4y ago"affordable" homes are just a give away to people on a magic list. I am all for more supply but spending significant quantities of cash on this is wasteful and counter-productive...