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Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC
- ayoisaiah 4y ago$225? More like $135. The rates in that article don't reflect the reality of the situation. The naira has fallen off a cliff
- Daishiman 4y agoGiven that there's always going to be demand for a non-digital currency outside of the control of a central government (which I believe is good for many perspectives although the demand for something like this is far below what most crypto bros will try to convince you of), I do wonder how people are going to transact in those situations. Gold? Monero? US Dollars or other currencies?
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y agohttps://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-control-and-rising-why-bitcoin-has-nigerias-government-in-a-panic https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jul/31/out-of-co...
- elecush 4y agowhatever is most stable and available to both parties
- c_o_n_v_e_x 4y agoVodka has been used as currency before https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/vodka-currency-russia#:~:text=In%20rural%20areas%20of%20the,afterwards%2C%20at%20which%20vodka%20flowed https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/vodka-currency-russia#....
- ls15 4y agoHalf of Russia isn't muslim though.
- ls15 4y ago55% of Nigerians have access to electricity. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.ACCS.ZS?locations=NG https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.ACCS.ZS?location... Seems like the government knows their priorities.
- mtoohig 4y agoNot that I support this program, because I don't know much about it to decide, but I know from where I live now if you don't have electricity then you are living a very simple life and probably aren't using that much cash each week anyways. So, the amount allowed to be withdrawn sounds small but it might not affect those without electricity. Plus, if they don't have electricity there is no ATM and therefore they have all their cash on hand as I know many stories of remote island villages where people just keep money in their house. The best stories are of those who are truly remote but making absolute bank selling kava roots and they come down to the major town and buy new Toyota trucks in all cash stuffed into 25kg bags of rice.
- zdragnar 4y agoExcepting COVID, where the line went flat, it seems to be consistently improving. Compared to the other countries in Africa, I'd say they are on par or much better off. Not a great situation, but seemingly improving at a steady clip, so maybe it isn't as bad as the bare number would imply. To steel-man the government's motives, I might hazard a guess they are hoping that a digital currency will attract more investment in technology. It's very much a "rising tide lifts all boats" plan that historically ends up with a lot of inequalities, but given their economic reliance on oil production, diversifying makes sense. Or, it's just another corrupt scheme that is lining a few pockets.
- dayve 4y agoBy introducing a CBDC, the Nigerian government hopes to attract revenues that come from remittances, which have mostly shifted to crypto channels because of poor international trade policies. Today, getting USD liquidity as an importer/exporter is challenging, as there are two market rates - one for banks & few institutions, the other for individuals & the vast majority of the economy. To find competitive rates, people resort to P2P markets. Furthermore, the Nigerian government banned licensed money operators from transacting with any crypto entity - essentially shutting down revenues from fiat deposits. Restrictions like withdrawal limits on USD accounts ($10k per month) makes it highly unfavorable for such high-volume merchants to transact in USD via the banking system. A CBDC is a way of the Nigerian government looking at all that activity with the hopes to attract the revenues that flow within crypto, but they miss the fundamental step of favorable trade & monetary policies that increase USD liquidity and opens up crypto officially to capture remittance revenues. P.S: I’m a Nigerian living in Nigeria
- datadata 4y agoThe title is a bit of an exaggeration. Withdrawals above that are not banned, but subject to a 5% fee. Also, it is not a new rule but a lowering of the limit of an existing rule.
- ls15 4y agoWho doesn't like paying 5% for getting the money that they already own?
- datadata 4y agoI think the policy is outrageous, but that doesn't make the title correct. Also, 5% is not really significantly more than the typical fee an ATM already charges.
- 1123581321 4y agoWouldn’t the 5% be on top of an ATM? Plus a regular cash user (not a trapped tourist) is going to be using a free one or withdrawing for free from a teller.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bigDinosaur 4y agoDo you mean 5% isn't much more than typical in Nigeria? or somewhere else? It's certainly much more than where I live where it's 0%...
- csomar 4y agoI don't know any local-ATM that charges % fees for local transactions. I'm in SEA, Cambodia to be specific, and the ATM % fee is around 1%. This is quite an improvement from a few years ago (where 5% was expected).
- aliqot 4y ago
- kornhole 4y agoThis is programmable money where the government controls how and when you can spend it. It does not take long for most people to figure out how this restricts their freedom. I guess they will make it a bargain in some way such as charging a higher rate for cash as they are doing here. This may be a training ground for other governments to learn how to force or incentivize us to use their CBDC's.
- walterbell 4y agoProgrammable money is like programmable computation, there are infinite applications on the spectrum of good and evil. If we are going to allow programmable money, we must allow competitors (e.g. citystate crypto, nationstate crypto, non-CB crypto) and incumbent payments like cash. https://cashessentials.org/us-considers-legislation-on-mandatory-acceptance-of-cash/ https://cashessentials.org/us-considers-legislation-on-manda... > The Payment Choice Act is a bill that would require applicable retail businesses to accept cash for transactions of less than $2,000 and prohibit them from charging cash-paying customers a higher price relative to customers not paying with cash. Retail businesses would retain the flexibility to accept payments through any other means. The House Financial Services Committee passed the bill 32-17 on 18 May 2022. Previous CBDC threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30634245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30634245 (2022) & https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27805709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27805709 (2021) A 15m video titled "Johnny's Cash and The Smart Money Nightmare" simulates future TV news on CBDCs. It's regularly deleted, and mirrored.
- akira2501 4y ago> there are infinite applications on the spectrum of good and evil. Which means it should be firmly in the hands of the people and never in those of a centralized government, in particular, never one which collects taxes directly from the people. > If we are going to allow programmable money, we must allow competitors (e.g. citystate crypto, nationstate crypto, non-CB crypto) and incumbent payments like cash. Well.. precisely. At this point, though.. what incentive to the population is there for a central government "programmable" token of value?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- senectus1 4y agoFriend of mine calls CDBC's "Digital Slavery", I have a bad feeling about this idea.
- influxmoment 4y agoThe odd thing is they try to sell it as a technology? Where is the innovation? It's just private payment networks moving onto one single network controlled by a central authority. No authority has had this responsibility in human history before. If this authority is abused you won't be able to put gas in your car if the authority denies it
- senectus1 4y agoIts enough for me to look at the "r/Wallstreetsilver" guys and think maybe they're onto something bunch of nutters.
- the100rabh 4y ago
- klipklop 4y agoA beta test for EU and US. This won’t be good for the average citizen.
- kolanos 4y agoSadly this appears to be true. Apparently the largest 12 U.S. banks (Citi, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Chase, etc.) are pushing for CBDC and most of the ~4.7k other commercial banks oppose it. Guess who is winning? [0] [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/ https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/
- xs83 4y agoFor anyone unsure as to why CBDC's are a horrendous idea please read this thread: https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang=en https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang... Or as an unrolled thread here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1494444624630403083.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1494444624630403083.html
- mgbmtl 4y agoThat rant views freedom as purely individual, and not collective, or more likely the compromises in other to have both. It also doesn't explain the difference between CBDC with traditional debit/credit card systems, which do impose a ton of restrictions to some in order to protect freedoms for others (whether demonitizing a porn site that does not hold uploaders accountable, or reducing tax evasion).
- influxmoment 4y agoUse of one bank's credit card is voluntary and not mandated by the central authority. It's the difference between choosing to only read the New York Times or a government enforcement of one source of news
- hikingsimulator 4y agoIs it? I can't see living in Europe without an IBAN for instance -- and the card that comes with one. And that's not something the government is enforcing. Same in the US, you can't not have a credit card because of the credit score system there. Use of a credit card is mandatory because you need it to financially "exist."
- influxmoment 4y agoCompetition and divided roles keeps these systems somewhat functional. Put them all under one authority and almost certainly see an increase in abuse
- 4y ago
- hunglee2 4y agothis is way to 'promote' CBDC adoption - increase the friction on the use of cash or digital alternatives. From the POV of the central govt, you can see why CBDC makes sense - it will certainly increase state power, and by extension, national power. Interesting to see Nigeria pioneer these techniques, I wonder whether Africa will end up leading the way here
- jgilias 4y agoI wonder if this may lead to unintended consequences /s
- zuminator 4y agoCan someone explain to me why this wouldn't have the perverse effect of discouraging the use of conventional bank accounts and causing people to just hold onto their cash or to put it in the equivalent of safe deposit boxes, or for wealthier people, to use "offshore" banks or to purchase assets easily convertible into cash?
- bunya017 4y agoThe Naira has been redesigned and new notes will be public by December 15th. The old note will cease to be a legal tender by January 31st, 2023
- walterbell 4y agoIndia's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect, https://archive.ph/ynouY https://archive.ph/ynouY > India’s prime minister, announced in November that Rs1,000 ($16) and Rs500 notes would no longer be legal tender, he suggested that corrupt officials, businessmen and criminals — popularly believed to hoard large amounts of illicit cash — would be stuck with “worthless pieces of paper”. But the Reserve Bank of India’s annual report on Wednesday suggested that most holders of the old currency managed to dispose of it > ... The bank’s estimate follows media reports that complex money-laundering networks sprang up in the wake of the demonetisation to help wealthy Indians deposit huge volumes of previously undeclared currency without exposing themselves to tax authorities. Such people allegedly sold the old notes, at a discount, to brokers who then dispatched low-income Indians to deposit or exchange them at banks.
- jeswin 4y ago> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-based economy. Just as most government programs, results are mixed. It seemed more of a failure immediately afterward, but with 6 years of hindsight doesn't seem as bad. It kicked off India's digital economy, with UPI digital payments finding mass acceptance. UPI payments went from $1.5B in October 2016, to $10B the following month. This triggered mass adoption of phone payment apps, and the transaction value stands at $140+ billion per month as of today. In most tier-1 and tier-2 cities in India, you don't need cash or a credit card to survive. As far as tax evasion is concerned, while it wasn't any sort of total success it did pave the way for more transactions to flow through monitored digital channels. Today banks don't accept any significant amount as cash deposits and there are strict caps on annual cash transactions. Overall, the "demonetization" event of Nov 2016 was imho a success as far as the government's objectives were concerned. As a private citizen however, I don't particularly like the privacy problems that tag along with this.
- bunya017 4y agoThis policy is aimed at promoting Nigeria's cashless policy, not enforce the use of CBDC
- churchill 4y agoAs a Nigerian, one of my biggest goals is to save enough to invest in a second passport. Since the last administration took over, their policies have been spectacularly bad - and that's coming from me, a Nigerian (and African) who has only known bad government all his life. When COVID-19 kicked in and oil revenues dried up, the government turned on the printing presses and churned out an awful amount of Nairas. Like anyone who has a basic knowledge of economics would have expected, the Naira tanked - aggressively. From around N365/$1 to N740/$1 as of today (i.e., on the black market). Instead of facing up to the problem, the government has created multiple exchange rates, demonized bureau de change operators, and generally restricted how much FX you can access. And as presidential elections are coming up in 2023, millions of citizens are still eager to vote for the clowns that will just crank the lever to 11. At some point, you just feel trapped. Most citizens don't even recognize it and the CBDC was launched without no opposition. Come to think of it, it was launched after a series of anti-government protests in OCTOBER 2022. So, the government started tying SIM cards to personal ID numbers and trying to force a CBDC. So, if such a protest should repeat itself, you just get cut off from the financial system without fanfare. That's what pains me: those who were protesting government brutality in October 2020 have said nothing about this and they see it as just another step towards a digital economy. It's so discouraging being a libertarian and knowing how this will end.
- kolanos 4y agoFor anyone learning about CBDCs for the first time, here's a podcast that goes in depth about them. [0] [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/ https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/
- mypastself 4y agoI believe I have a decent understanding of the subject, but I’d love to hear a good podcast about it. However, I’m not familiar with James Corbett, and googling the name seems to result in a lot of conspiracy-related stuff. Which is not to say CBDCs aren’t conspiratorial enough on their own, but is that an educational show, or is it more politically oriented?
- kolanos 4y agoMaybe listen and draw your own conclusions? In this episode he uses fringe sources like the American Bankers Association. He does cover conspiracies, but some conspiracies are actually true. This appears to be one of them. His channel was removed from social media for questioning the ever changing and largely incoherent COVID narrative. [0] [1] But if you or anyone else finds a more comprehensive resource, please share. [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/mission-accomplished-the-corbett-report-removed-from-youtube/ https://www.corbettreport.com/mission-accomplished-the-corbe... [1]: https://www.corbettreport.com/sciencesays/ https://www.corbettreport.com/sciencesays/
- mypastself 4y ago> Maybe listen and draw your own conclusions? That’s the thing, the same could be said of any random piece of media ever made, but I have neither the time nor the interest in going through all of it. There are plenty of quality programs out there, and I don’t want to realize I should have spent that time listening to In Our Time an hour into the show. I’m opposed to CBDCs. But this person generally seems to present himself as a conspiracy theorist, and I’d rather start with a more meat-and-potatoes approach. And I’m not sure what removal from social media has to do with whether or not he’s worth listening to.
- headsoup 4y agoI think it's important to focus on the 'Central Bank' part, more than the digital currency part. What are their incentives and do they align to a more open and free society?
- dmichulke 4y agoOnce we have CBDCs and they are obligatory, the case for Bitcoin will be clear.
- hotcoffeebear 4y agoThey will probably push harder to make difficult/ illegal using decentralized cryptocurrencies. They will thank to all the opensource projects that helped to mature CBDC, and kick them out.
- hackingforfun 4y agoIt's possible CBDC's will only be launched in certain countries. I'm hoping at least America will embrace crypto instead of pushing it offshore (and of course also figure out the regulatory aspects to reduce/eliminate the bad actors in the space). Time will tell.
- r12343a_19 4y agoYou think your internet provider will just allow you do a Bitcoin TX?
- CapricornNoble 4y agoEventually we will get to LPI/LPD mesh networks as a requirement to run zk-based cryptos. Unless we self-host at the PHY layer with software radios, they will tighten the screws until we are all enslaved.
- sph 4y agoThis is good for Bitcoin.
- MerelyMortal 4y agoIt's better for Monero - what people thought Bitcoin was: actually private.
- hackingforfun 4y agoMy interest in Bitcoin (since 2014) has never been because I thought it was private. My interest is because of its potential to transform the financial system. I actually think the public auditability of Bitcoin is one of its strengths as a technology.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- agingtiger83 4y agoI was part of a team working on a CBDC and I'm glad I left that project. The possibilities of abusing a CBDC are massive and gladly we had tough time finding a benign use case for it. We are already cashless let's keep it that way
- davidgerard 4y agoThe story seems to just assert the claim that this is to promote the CBDC, but the linked directive does not. I mean, they definitely wish adoption was higher. But is there evidence this isn't just CoinTelegraph assuming things?
- elforce002 4y agoI'm all in for tech innovation but after what happened in Canada, I can't stand behind this "innovation".
- speed_spread 4y agoWhat happened in Canada?
- Mattasher 4y agoI assume the person you are replying to is referring to the government freezing the bank accounts of people who contributed to the trucker protests. Though it should be noted that this was done through existing bank infrastructure. CBDC would give governments much more granularity in controlling how people use their money.
- elforce002 4y agoIn other words, a worse outcome for us.
- t0bia_s 4y agoTwo years ago, digital ID, central bank and one currency was a fake news. Now it is not. No wonder that so called fake news are so popular. Great documentary about this topic, State of control (2022) is here: https://player.vimeo.com/video/769876604 https://player.vimeo.com/video/769876604
- TurkishPoptart 4y agoWhy is this being pushed in the US?